History Headscratchers / StarTrekGenerations

25th Oct '17 8:54:03 PM costanton11
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** I pointed out on [[WallBangers/StartrekThenextgeneration TNG's wallbangers page]] that it's even worse when you consider the [[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock events]] that lead to the destruction of the first ''Constitution''-class ''Enterprise''. Still heavily damaged from ''Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan'', operating with a crew of six under heavy, jury-rigged automation, and lacking the ability to actually raise her shields, she ''still'' managed to give as good as she got from a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.

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** I pointed out on [[WallBangers/StartrekThenextgeneration TNG's wallbangers page]] page that it's even worse when you consider the [[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock events]] that lead to the destruction of the first ''Constitution''-class ''Enterprise''. Still heavily damaged from ''Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan'', operating with a crew of six under heavy, jury-rigged automation, and lacking the ability to actually raise her shields, she ''still'' managed to give as good as she got from a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.
25th Oct '17 10:17:20 AM Bense
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* Geordi is captured by the Duras sisters and Soran, and in Geordi's hearing Soran removes and examines his VISOR. When he is returned to the ''Enterprise'' his bugged VISOR leads directly to a "''Galaxy'' class warship" loosing a fight with an obsolete ''Bird of Prey''. So who was most incompetent here: Geordi for not saying "Soran was really interested in my VISOR, gee, maybe we should make sure he didn't do anything to it,", Worf for not saying "Commander La Forge was a captive for some time. We should make sure they didn't plant anything on him", or Dr. Crusher for "removing the nanoprobe" from Geordi (which apparently references some scenes cut from the movie) but failing to notice the bug in his VISOR?

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* Geordi is captured by the Duras sisters and Soran, and in Geordi's hearing Soran removes and examines his VISOR. When he is returned to the ''Enterprise'' his bugged VISOR leads directly to a "''Galaxy'' class warship" loosing a fight with an obsolete ''Bird of Prey''. So who was most incompetent here: Geordi for not saying "Soran was really interested in my VISOR, gee, maybe we should make sure he didn't do anything to it,", it", Worf for not saying "Commander La Forge was a captive for some time. We should make sure they didn't plant anything on him", or Dr. Crusher for "removing the nanoprobe" from Geordi (which apparently references some scenes cut from the movie) but failing to notice the bug in his VISOR?
25th Oct '17 10:16:27 AM Bense
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* Geordi is captured by the Duras sisters and Soran, and in Geordi's hearing Soran removes and examines his VISOR. When he is returned to the ''Enterprise'' his bugged VISOR leads directly to a "''Galaxy'' class warship" loosing a fight with an obsolete ''Bird of Prey''. So who was most incompetent here: Geordi for not saying "Soran was really interested in my VISOR, gee, maybe we should make sure he didn't do anything to it,", Worf for not saying "Commander LaForge was a captive for some time. We should make sure they didn't plant anything on him", or Dr. Crusher for "removing the nanoprobe" from Geordi (which apparently references some scenes cut from the movie) but failing to notice the bug in his VISOR?

to:

* Geordi is captured by the Duras sisters and Soran, and in Geordi's hearing Soran removes and examines his VISOR. When he is returned to the ''Enterprise'' his bugged VISOR leads directly to a "''Galaxy'' class warship" loosing a fight with an obsolete ''Bird of Prey''. So who was most incompetent here: Geordi for not saying "Soran was really interested in my VISOR, gee, maybe we should make sure he didn't do anything to it,", Worf for not saying "Commander LaForge La Forge was a captive for some time. We should make sure they didn't plant anything on him", or Dr. Crusher for "removing the nanoprobe" from Geordi (which apparently references some scenes cut from the movie) but failing to notice the bug in his VISOR?
25th Oct '17 10:15:46 AM Bense
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Should we check the VISOR Soran was so interested In? Nah, it was probably nothing.]]
* Geordi is captured by the Duras sisters and Soran, and in Geordi's hearing Soran removes and examines his VISOR. When he is returned to the ''Enterprise'' his bugged VISOR leads directly to a "''Galaxy'' class warship" loosing a fight with an obsolete ''Bird of Prey''. So who was most incompetent here: Geordi for not saying "Soran was really interested in my VISOR, gee, maybe we should make sure he didn't do anything to it,", Worf for not saying "Commander LaForge was a captive for some time. We should make sure they didn't plant anything on him", or Dr. Crusher for "removing the nanoprobe" from Geordi (which apparently references some scenes cut from the movie) but failing to notice the bug in his VISOR?
19th Oct '17 9:31:08 AM Rayfire
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** What good would remodulating the shields do when they can still read the new frequency from Geordi's visor? As far as not throw everything they've got keep in mind, that if they can get the Enterprise's shield frequency they can also get the information to adjust their own shields to match the Enterprise's weapons.
10th Oct '17 12:15:35 PM thatsnumberwang
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** Well, he doesn't. But me personally I think that Website/SfDebris was spot on when he pointed out that if we are going to go down this road, it is actually far more likely that he didn't enter the Nexus at all. Doesn't it seem far more likely that instead of entering this quasi-magical realm where all of you dreams come true, that an old man who is wearing an all-black outfit with no water and shelter passed out in the middle of the desert and is hallucinating all of this?
10th Oct '17 9:59:43 AM Bense
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* How does Picard know that he's not still in the Nexus at the end of the film? His ultimate desire was stopping Soran, and then going on to continue to have adventures as Captain of the ''Enterprise'', and that's exactly what happened in this and the following movies. How does he know the Nexus isn't just giving him what he ''really'' wanted all along?


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[[folder: Is he ''Really'' Out?]]
* How does Picard know that he's not still in the Nexus at the end of the film? His ultimate desire was stopping Soran, and then going on to continue to have adventures as Captain of the ''Enterprise'', and that's exactly what happened in this and the following movies. How does he know the Nexus isn't just giving him what he ''really'' wanted all along?
[[/folder]]
10th Oct '17 9:58:12 AM Bense
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** The first time Soran got to the Nexus he was on a ship. Why couldn't he do it again?
*** That ship also blew up. Approaching the ribbon in a ship is dangerous, and since there's no guarantee that Soran would get into the Nexus before his ship blew up he decided to use a planet instead.
*** Actually, he could still use a ship. He could charter one to take him to where the ribbon will be in an hour or so and beam himself out into space in an EV suit so that the ribbon can pick him up without endangering anyone.
*** Except himself, which is kind of the point for Soran. If a ship has a chance of blowing up before you can get into the Nexus, then using a suit is obviously even more dangerous. A planet is much safer, if you don't care about what happens to everyone else on it after you're gone into the Nexus.
*** The danger presented by the Nexus absolutely fails show don't tell. He gets in the first time whilst in a primitive El-Aurian refugee ship that survived long enough for the Enterprise to receive the distress call, long enough for it to get there, and long enough to figure out a way to beam some of them out; a period of time that must have been a good solid few minutes at least. The film wants us to believe a certain thing is true (that you can't fly your ship into it) whilst wanting us to believe that he did so the first time perfectly fine. And as we see with Kirk, the ''Nexus lightning'' that is taking chunks out of these ships is actually completely harmless. Yes it destroyed a good chunk of the Enterprise-B's secondary hull, but Kirk was transported into the Nexus without any injury whatsoever despite standing at ground zero. For all we know from this visual evidence, everyone blown up that day in a similar manner made it.


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[[folder:Just Use a Ship - It Worked Before]]
* The first time Soran got to the Nexus he was on a ship. Why couldn't he do it again?
** That ship also blew up. Approaching the ribbon in a ship is dangerous, and since there's no guarantee that Soran would get into the Nexus before his ship blew up he decided to use a planet instead.
** Actually, he could still use a ship. He could charter one to take him to where the ribbon will be in an hour or so and beam himself out into space in an EV suit so that the ribbon can pick him up without endangering anyone.
** Except himself, which is kind of the point for Soran. If a ship has a chance of blowing up before you can get into the Nexus, then using a suit is obviously even more dangerous. A planet is much safer, if you don't care about what happens to everyone else on it after you're gone into the Nexus.
** The danger presented by the Nexus absolutely fails show don't tell. He gets in the first time whilst in a primitive El-Aurian refugee ship that survived long enough for the Enterprise to receive the distress call, long enough for it to get there, and long enough to figure out a way to beam some of them out; a period of time that must have been a good solid few minutes at least. The film wants us to believe a certain thing is true (that you can't fly your ship into it) whilst wanting us to believe that he did so the first time perfectly fine. And as we see with Kirk, the ''Nexus lightning'' that is taking chunks out of these ships is actually completely harmless. Yes it destroyed a good chunk of the Enterprise-B's secondary hull, but Kirk was transported into the Nexus without any injury whatsoever despite standing at ground zero. For all we know from this visual evidence, everyone blown up that day in a similar manner made it.
** Soran's been studying the Nexus ever since he left it - close to 80 years. The fact that he's willing to sacrifice a populated planet to get back in would indicate that getting into the Nexus before your ship blows up is no sure thing, regardless of what's shown on screen. Kirk of course has PlotArmor, at least until the bridge falls on him.
[[/folder]]
26th Sep '17 10:23:34 PM thespecialneedsgroup
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*** I'd add that the very fact that they managed to escape at all suggests that they didn't witness the attack firsthand. In ''Voy:'' "Dark Frontier," we see that the Borg make an effort to capture any ships that attempt to flee the planets that they're assimilating. If these people managed to get away, there's a good chance that they were already off-planet during the Borg attack.
26th Sep '17 11:57:09 AM thatsnumberwang
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** In the Star Trek Enterprise episode ''Regeneration'' which is set in the 22nd century, a whole research team is killed on Earth, a ship is assimilated and destroyed, part of the NX-01 is assimilated, first hand knowledge of nanoprobes and energy weapons adaption is obtained, a medical treatment is developed, a corpse of a drone is recovered, and a message is sent into the Delta Quadrant with a set of coordinates. ''With or without'' those El-Aurian accounts, it makes the Federation look almost criminally negligent in documenting this new threat. One fan theory I've heard is that the events were classified for some reason (which would include the El-Aurian testimony), but that is unlikely considering the fact that the Hansons over on ''Voyager'' seemed to have at least a broad conspiracy theory as to their existence.
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