History Headscratchers / StarTrekDeepSpaceNine

** Alternative, maybe he did receive similar enhancements but under much different circumstances (more "dark," per the mirror universe idiom).

* In Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS05E16DrBashirIPresume, Julian Bashir's father Richard pleads guilty to genetically tampering with his son and strikes a deal where he spends two years in minimum-security prison in exchange for Bashir being able to keep his medical license and Starfleet commission. Julian's mother Amsha, who is guilty of the exact same crime... looks a little sad, and that's it. What gives? There's no mention that clemency for his wife was part of Richard's plea agreement, and nobody even suggests that she might be in any way culpable as well.

** I think he still would have seen death as his only release.

*** I think the main thrust of the point stands. They had been in dishonor before and gotten out of it. Also, if Worf was able to join another house, then surely Kurn would have had a much easier time of it. After all, it wasn't Kurn's fault.
*** Klingon laws and traditions don't care about "fault". A Klingon has to bear the dishonor of his family members also, not just his own. If Worf does something dishonorable, then it affects Kurn just as much. Even if he didn't do the act himself, he would be "the brother of a traitor". Just as Duras was "the son of a traitor".
*** The main point of the episode is Kurn is showing all the symptoms of clinical depression after having had his entire life taken from him, twice attempting suicide by proxy and then putting a gun to his head and coming very close to pulling the trigger before Worf takes it off him. Worf's solution ''is'' basically to have Kurn join another house but it would be interesting to know Kurn's reaction if Worf had actually suggested it to him rather than resorting to a memory wipe and subterfuge. Was he in the right frame of mind to have gone along with it willingly or would he have still seen death as the only release?

amba[[foldercontrol]]

** The whole thing is a bit odd. Why would Martok get to name the ambassador ''to'', not ''from,'' his government? If it's some back channel request, isn't that just the kind of cronyism we don't want to see Federation?

[[foldercontrol]]

** I dispute the premise that we're supposed to be okay with genocide against the Founders. It's done by a villainous organization. Our characters act to prevent it. In the end, the implication is that Odo, given his different upbringing, will help guide the Founders to a more peaceful outlook. I don't see a shred of evidence that we are supposed to be even partially okay with the concept of committing genocide against them.

** The Cardassians probably didn't plan on having non-Cardassian ships dock at Terok Nor with any frequency. It could also be that there are retractable gondolas that extend from the docking ring to accommodate larger ships. Collisions are probably not that common if you can have a Galaxy-class ship maneuverable enough to fly through the doors of Earth's Spacedock. As for why Starfleet didn't build another station, remember that [=DS=]9 is owned by Bajor and the Wormhole is in their space. It's likely political and economic reasons that made Bajor insist that the gateway to the Gamma Quadrant would be a Bajoran-owned station and thus reject any Starfleet proposal to build a station of their own.

** Here on Earth, we built the Panama Canal to be wide enough to accommodate the largest ship at the time it was built. In [=DS=]9, the Cardassians built Terok Nor to accommodate the largest ship they had available when it was built. And, as noted, if it's big enough for a Galaxy Class, it's big enough for pretty much anything in the Next Gen universe.

* "Covenant" confirms that the Dominion has transporter technology that can transport somebody multiple light years (as presumably Dukat did with himself earlier in "Tears of the Prophet"... this may also solve the question of what happened to Eris at the end of "The Jem'hadar"). I realize that the franchise often ducks the bigger implications of transporter technology (and also that the maximum beaming distance is a matter of great inconsistency), but that sounds like a huge technological advantage -- almost enough to make space travel redundant! Why use a troop transport ship when you could just beam troops away while sitting comfortably in your home base? Why lug cargo around when you could just transport it? Sure, there may be explanations as to why this technology needs to be used sparingly (perhaps it's super-duper energy intensive), but all the same, reaction to it is surprisingly blasé. I would think that Starfleet would immediately go "go to get our hands on that!"

* [=DS=]9 introduced the concept of a "phaser sweep": using a phaser set to emit a widely-dispersed, continuous beam to root out hidden Changelings. They used it at a low power setting so it wouldn't damage the scenery, but in "The Rapture", we see Sisko use a phaser on a high-dispersal setting to burn through a wall of solid rock. Not to mention the fact that phaser beams are [[FrickinLaserBeams beam weapons]], and can be continuously. But when we get into combat with Jem'Hadar, all we ever see people use are short bursts with no dispersal, essentially as if they were firing bullets. You shoot and you either hit or you miss. Why doesn't anyone ever seem to realize they're holding a beam weapon? If I had four or five Jem'Hadar confronting me, all bunched up in a group a ways off with no collateral damage I had to avoid causing, the first thing I would try is throwing a grenade at them. But [[HollywoodTactics since this is Star Trek and I apparently don't have any grenades,]] I would instead use the phaser I had in my hand and fire a continuous sweep from left to right across their group, or set my phaser to a wide-dispersal beam and just hose down the whole area with energy. It's a lot harder to miss that way. [[HoldingBackThePhlebotinum And yet no one ever does. Why is that?]]

** The number of replicators on Deep Space Nine, used sparingly, could probably help a large city. While impressive, they're an entire planet. They would probably want some of those Class IV Industrial Replicators more. Considering that 12 of them could help a post-Klingon war devastated Cardassian Union and their many planets, the 2 that they got from the Federation would probably vastly surpass what [=DS=]9 could provide.

** An orbital tether/stratotower maybe? A technology that would be démodé once transporters became available - why spend hours riding a vertical cablecar once you get a tech that can bounce you thousands of miles in seconds? See the Voyager episode that featured this tech.

* 1: How fast is the Danube? It appears to [[TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot depend on the writer]]; officially its top speed is Warp 5, or 214 times light speed. Earth is 50 LY from [=DS=]9, but Danubes regularly fly there in two weeks or less in the episodes -- this is closer to a top speed of Warp 8 or 9 (1024-1516 times light speed).
** Maybe the [=DS=]9 crew retrofitted them to make them more useful. Their drives are still underpowered compared to a full size starship but they're fast enough by the late seasons that a JHAS only catches up with one slowly, and the [=DS=]9 Technical Manual gives the JHAS's top speed as warp 9.6, which is comparable to Starfleet capships.

** I think the best explanation is to assume that money exists, but the average human doesn't use it (and what money that is used is not hard currency) because Replicators manufacture 99% of everything they need, so it's little more than a luxury used to buy exotic foreign stuff. Also, [=DS=]9 is a Bajoran station (with a Federation administration), so his main source of income would be the Bajorans (and foreign trade from the Wormhole).

** I don't know about other Federation stations, but [=DS=]9 was somewhat of a special case. At the beginning of "Emissary", Starfleet wasn't completely taking over the station, but helping out Bajor after the occupation as a facilitator. The Starfleet crew early on was nearly a skeleton crew: you had your doctor, your chief engineer, your head science officer, and a few other crewmen scattered here and there to fill gaps, but the rest of the station personnel were mostly members of the Bajoran militia (such as Odo's entire staff). This wasn't exactly a plum assignment, or even much of an important one; Bajor wasn't strategically important, the station wasn't exactly a major hub for starships, or any traffic, for that matter (remember, it wasn't named ''Deep Space'' Nine because it was in a major traffic zone), and the station was still technically Bajoran with a token Federation presence. Perhaps Starfleet just didn't see it as important enough to send a captain in. It was only after the discovery of the wormhole that suddenly Bajor and the station became important to both the Federation and the Alpha Quadrant as a whole, but by then Sisko had already been placed in the position of Emissary by the Bajorans, and the Starfleet higher-ups probably thought it would weaken their relationship with Bajor to bring in somebody else above Sisko at that point.

*** Another curious exception on [=DS=]9 is in "Second Sight," where the U.S.S. Prometheus seems to be commanded by a Lt. jg (albeit it could have been the case that higher offers were simply off the scene for some reason or another).

* The chief engineer of [=DS9=] is a non-com, and would be outranked by someone fresh from the academy. The doctor, the chief scientist and the cultural attaché are all high ranking officers, yet in this world where all the most life threatening problems can only be solved by using the right engineering tricks on the stations systems, the chief engineer is not. If I'm not mistaken, on a current day navy vessel the person performing the equivalent function is pretty much the highest ranking person on the ship except for the skipper.

! Klingons

[[folder:Wartime extradition]]
* Klingons try to extradite Worf for allegedly shooting a civilian ship.
--> '''Sisko:''' What are the diplomatic relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire?\\
'''Prosecution Attorney:''' There are no diplomatic relations.
** In that case there is no Extradition Treaty and the episode should end right there.
** What makes this more ridiculous is that, when the Dominion and Cardassia join forces, Dukat pulls the same thing in regards to a political rival on the station. Sisko pretty much tells him to sod off because there is no extradition treaty between their peoples.
*** The difference is that up until the conflict began the Klingons and Federation were allies and the Federation very much wants friendly relations with the Klingons to resume again. They're playing nice in hopes that it will be a step to reconciliation between their two powers, plus the Federation was not happy with the situation and Worf was hella lucky it was a frame up. Heck, for all we know WORF is the one who accepted the charges set against him and agreed to the trial, murdering civilians would be something all sides could agree would warrant punishment.
*** In my opinion Worf was completely justified in taking the shot. Present day Navies "strongly encourage" everybody to keep well away in peace time. And he was at that time in combat. Anybody who approaches active combat puts themselves willingly at risk. Trying to sneak up on the combatants is suicidal.
** When the Khitomer Accords were dissolved, ending the Federation-Klingon alliance, it seems very likely that the two sides had to revert to the terms imposed onto them by the Organian Peace Treaty. The word 'treaty' is actually a bit misleading, as neither side actually got any say in the stipulations of the document, they just had to follow them ''or else''. Perhaps extradition was mandated by the Organians, and the Federation had no choice but to go along with it.
* Changing the subject, two different problems with the "Rules of Engagement" scenario:
## Why doesn't anyone think to question what a ''civilian transport ship'' is doing with a ''cloaking device''?
*** Possible answer: As far as the Klingons might be concerned, cloaking devices are perfectly acceptable to install on civilian ships during wartime conditions, especially if said ships travel along trade routes that intersect combat zones. It's provocative, but not outright hostile. It's like installing high-powered sonar and radar on a commercial vessel IRL—it's overkill and raises suspicion, but unless it's paired with weapons, not so big a deal.
## The judge is blatantly incompetent. She uses "logic" to justify allowing the Klingons to continue with the hearing when ''logically'' Starfleet JAG Corps has jurisdiction, ''not'' the Klingons. Therefore Worf should ''logically'' be tried ''only'' under Federation law, and they establish that he's innocent of all charges under that legal system before the opening credits roll.
*** Possible answer: The judge isn't operating on strict interstellar law and jurisdictions. The obvious intent of the Klingons is to score points against the Fed, since the Khitomer Accords are dead and the strike against [=DS9=] is relatively recent. They could very well use the pretext of Starfleet refusing to submit Worf to satisfactory justice (i.e., Klingon law) to restart the recently-suspended hostilities. The Fed would rather that not happen, since a Federation-Klingon conflict would almost certainly mean a Dominion invasion after it was all over. So from the perspective of Starfleet, they could have informed the judge of the political background and basically told her to consider the logic of provoking the Klingons; she would permit an extradition hearing on the basis that Worf would not refuse due to his honor, and might be sufficient to placate the Klingons. Not strictly legal, but sometimes you gotta legislate from the bench.

[[folder: The Greatest Klingon Warrior, a Pencil Pusher?]]
* For all the great battle feats Worf accomplishes during [=DS9=], he ends up as an [[BroughtDowntoNormal Ambassador?!]]. Okay, sure, it's a prestigious job and Worf being a Klingon raised by humans sounds like a good fit. But this ignores any character development Worf had over TNG and [=DS9=]. He's already on a command track which could lead him to be an admiral. He's got plenty of combat and tactical experience, outwitting opponents from Klingon to Borg. Why would foreign relations, a bureaucratic job, be a good use of his skills? If the Federation needs to combat a new foe, one of its best tactical commanders is now sitting behind a desk giving diplomatic, NOT tactical advice! What a waste!
** Well it doesn't stick beyond [=DS9=], but it would be a smart move. Back in the episode [[http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Change_of_Heart_%28episode%29 Change of Heart]] Sisko bumps Worf off the promotion chain, so a lateral shift to being ambassador is a good way to get his career back on track. Any black mark he received prior to that posting has to be read in the context of serving as a high level ambassador or liaison to another of the great powers. It makes it all the more likely that the promotion board will overlook it.
*** That's a good way to explain why Worf might switch to diplomacy. It should be noted, that even [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight Command Officers who consistently break Starfleet regulations]], can still be considered the [[http://http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk finest officers and be promoted to admirals]]. Also that position stuck with Worf at least until ''Film/StarTrekNemesis'' where he seemed very unhappy indeed until he got to man a tactical post again.
*** That’s assuming being the ambassador to the Klingon is boring. Considering their culture and all the probably rituals they have to do, far from it, also as a Klingon himself even as a Federation’s citizen, Worf may enjoy be back in his home world among his people. And, besides, don’t get fooled by what you see in television, an Ambassador’s job is much more than signing papers, can get pretty nasty sometimes.

[[folder:The General's Kia-of-Prey]]
* For much of the second half of the series, General Martok is hanging around the station in one capacity or another, and has command of the ''Rotarran'', a Bird of Prey, which eventually becomes his flagship as he is given command of the Federation-Klingon fleet. Wait, what? Why is a tiny, hundred-year-old skirmisher with a crew of cowards and rookies 1) appropriate for a General, 2) appropriate to act as flagship once said General has been given a proper command again, or 3) a sensible choice of vessel for a man whose family apparently ''owns a private'' attack cruiser, a powerful modern vessel representing the best of Klingon ship design?
** Because he feels a Bird-of-Prey is a proper vessel for a Klingon warrior, far better than the "luxury liner" of a ''Vor'cha-'' or ''Negh'Var-'' class attack cruiser. When he was promoted to the liaison officer between the Klingons and the Federation, he declined Sisko's offer of quarters aboard the station, saying, "I will keep my flag aboard the ''Rotarran.'' At least then I'll feel like I'm still in the war." In other words: It keeps him grounded. I must admit, though, that you're right that it doesn't make much sense from a strategic perspective. Three or four well-placed photon torpedoes would destroy the general's flagship.
*** Simply because the basic external design is 100 years old doesn't mean the Rotarran is a century behind in technology. The Klingons are really fond of that design and seem to upgrade everything under the hood so it can fight against 24th century ships. They are either still building new ones or they're upgrading them the same way the Federation upgraded Mirandas and Excelsiors to be a match for Dominion ships. Another important question is whether the Rotarran is a B'rel-class scout or a K'vort-class cruiser; the latter is larger, better armed and can probably take more of a beating. As for why not command from a more powerful and distinctive warship, it could be that if the Dominion knew Martok were on the only Negh'var in the fleet they would make it a priority target, whereas if there are scores of Birds of Prey in any engagement it's much harder to identify which one Martok is on. It keeps the Dominion on its toes: if they get a report that a squadron of Birds of Prey is going to attack some depot, they don't know if its a bunch of hotheads or the General and won't know how to properly allocate defenses. Contrast that with if they saw a Sovereign-class coming they'd know it was Picard.
** Regarding his crew that keeps ending up filled with rookies, I can think of at least three reasons why it keeps happening: 1) He got out of a Dominion prison camp after being replaced by a Changeling, so he hadn't re-earned the trust of Klingon veterans yet (backed up by the fact that we only see his crew after he was recently released), 2) he really ''is'' a good trainer, general or not, and one of his duties is to train rookies simply because he's the best at it (admittedly this has little proof), or 3) Gowron doesn't want to see him get too popular and so keeps sending him inexperienced crews to hinder his progress (this one's especially backed up by Gowron's behavior near the end of the series).
** Given that Martok wasn't originally a highly-placed member of the Klingon society, it could be a sign that he considers his humble origins to be a source of honor, and this uses a more humble ship that the large cruisers that the other generals use. Also, there are numerous stories of Generals who will fight alongside their men and end up earning their loyalty, as opposed to those who lead from the rear and merely have obedience (compare General George Patton and General Max Taylor from UsefulNotes/WorldWarII).
** I think Martok sees the ''Rotarran'' as the symbol of his return to grace as a Klingon warrior. After he left the Dominion prison, General Martok felt as useless and disgraced that ship and its crew was before he took command--he even compared the ship's service record to a prison record. It was his victorious first mission on the ''Rotarran'' in which Martok proved to himself that he was still a worthy of command.
** There actually is an historical precedent for flagships being far more primitive and crappy than the rest of the fleet. In Tudor England, the flagship of Henry VIII was a ship called the Mary Rose, which at the time of its construction was literally the most advanced thing on the sea and proceeded to win many great battles. ''Twenty years later'' and it was still in use, but by this time ship building had advanced to the point that rendered it on the verge of obsolescence, and the only reason Henry kept it in service as his lead ship was its fierce reputation and because it carried the name ''Rose'' which was the symbol of the Tudor dynasty (and thus the symbol of the whole of England.) This story has a very unhappy ending, for its advanced age was probably a very large contributory factor in the fact that it sank with nearly all hands on board.
*** The 255 year old HMS ''Victory'' is still the ceremonial flagship of the British First Sea Lord--the professional head of the UK's Naval Service.
* Accepting that the ''Rotarran'' was, for whatever reason, Martok's ship of choice, why was the flagship of the Klingon [[UsefulNotes/DwightDEisenhower Eisenhower]] so often stuck doing convoy escorts, patrols, and other such crap duty?
** Either the timeline included involved his time before his full return to grace, or it's training for his less-than-stellar crew and unwinding for him (still contributing to the war since a war without supply lines is a lost war).
** Also, it is stated that Gowron is going out of his way to give Martok crap duty in hopes of keeping Martok from gaining enough political clout to be a threat for the title of Chancellor.
*** This is the reason for most of the above. Gowron became overly concerned that Martok was going to become a legitimate political rival at some point in the future (since he was popular with most Klingons as he was a 'fighting' General). Gowron decided to start giving him ridiculous objectives so that he would fail and lose support. Worf realizes that Gowron is wasting lives on politics, so like a good Klingon, kills him.
* For story reasons it was useful to have an alternative to the ''Defiant'' which was a small fighter-like starship like the Bird of Prey. Several episodes were mainly spent on Klingon ships, mostly Birds of Prey. Presumably when Martok was made Supreme Commander of the Ninth Fleet, the ''Rotarran'' became his flagship by default. He just never changed that arrangement, preferring the worn-in, veteran Bird of Prey to any other ship.
* There is historical precedent for an admiral not always moving their flag to the most powerful available ship. Admiral Kurita during the Battle of Leyte Gulf initially commanded from a heavy cruiser despite having the two largest battleships in history under his command, only transferring his flag when his ship was torpedoed out from under him.

[[folder: Those lazy, lazy Organians]]
* Well here we are in season 4; war between the Federation and the Klingons - exactly the thing that the Organians said that they would prevent to Kirk and Kor. Could the Federation and the Empire always have just warped away and called their bluff?
** it is possible that since the organian prediction of a federation/Klingon friendship had occurred, the organians took a hands off policy after that point, trusting the two nations to have grown enough to settle their differences peacefully. which then backfired when they couldn't. alternately, it could have been that the Organians only intervened in TOS because the Federation-Klingon war was going to kick off in the Organian's home system, and they just wanted to be left alone. certainly by the time of first Trek films the Organians were not a factor. you have ST5 with its Klingon BoP attacking the Enterprise over Nimbus, and in ST6 both the federation and the Klingons had factions within their military proposing starting a war as a response to the loss of Praxis. and neither side seemed to think that Organians or anyone else would intervene.

[[folder: How does the High Council have time for that?]]
* In [[Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS03E03TheHouseOfQuark "The House of Quark"]], we see the Klingon High Council devote several days to pass judgment on fairly routine legal case involving a widow's rights after her husband's death. Even though the House the husband lead is said to be fairly important, considering how most of the houses are lead by members of the warrior class who are eager to fight to death, you'd think such cases are not uncommon? Now, the High Council is supposed to run an interplanetary empire, so if they're also expected to pass judgment on legal disputes like this, how on earth do they have time for anything else? Shouldn't cases like this be left to the courts, which we do know exist in the Klingon Empire? The High Council doing this is the equivalent of the President of the United States and his cabinet handling individual divorce cases, except that the Klingon Empire has billions of inhabitants instead of mere millions.
** The Klingon Council is less like a Cabinet and more like a Parliament as their system is clearly closer to a Parliamentary system ála Britain or Japan (as they even have a symbolic monarch) than to a presidential system like the US, with the Chancellor akin more to the British Prime Minister or the German Chancellor. As such yes it is common in many Parliaments that they deal with judicial issues especially regarding noble families, you can see several cases in British or Japanese history were the Parliament had to deal with inheritance of noble house's titles and/or properties after someone's death, even during the time that the British had one of the world's largest Empires. Not to mention the Roman Senate also handle things like that having to also rule the very large --for the time-- Roman Empire. So is not such a stretch.

[[folder: Baffled by a Spreadsheet?]]
* On a related note, while hearing the court case mentioned above, Quark walks the High Council members through a forensic accounting report he'd prepared. The Klingons clearly do not have any idea what Quark is talking about, and stare at his report with obvious uncomprehending bewilderment. ''Seriously'', every one of them looks like a very stupid person who wandered into an astrophysics lecture. Granted, the average Klingon isn't particularly well known for their intelligence, but these are people who collectively run an empire. Each of them is the head of one of the more powerful Klingon Great Houses, and they've all most likely been high-ranking officers in the Klingon military. They should all have a ''ridiculously'' solid understanding of finances; otherwise, the Empire and their own houses would have gone broke long ago, and the Klingon military would be a joke because its leadership couldn't manage their resources. How can they possibly be so bewildered by the details of a financial scheme that was uncovered by Quark, who owns a bar that occasionally manages to turn a profit?
** The warrior caste is dominant among the Klingons and everyone else (scientist, doctor, advocate) is sort of second rate. Why would anyone on the Council itself (which may be made up entirely of military personnel who would have highest position anywhere on the Empire) possess knowledge of things that are most likely dealt with from the financial staff. The High Council, i.e. the Klingons who take decisions about everything, would most likely simply be advised regarding financial matters but would not require in-depth knowledge. And this was a problem of a noble house, so it wouldn't be necessary for financial advisers to take place in that ruling (as they would be present for situations regarding resources of the militia or the entire home world).
** it could be that they were familiar with spreadsheets, but their bafflement was over the complex financial maneuvers Quark was describing to them. after all, we see them trying to follow along on their own PADDs, so they are able to follow what he is saying. Quark however was describing very complex financial maneuverings, which require a fairly deep understanding of the logic behind financial markets, real estate, banking ,and the like. As Grilka remarked earlier, Klingon warriors do not usually concern themselves with financial issues (presumably they have non-warriors or slaves track such things), and we see Gowron being very disgusted by the idea of a Klingon warrior using 'money' instead of challenges and open combat to achieve a goal. so it is likely that the warriors of the Klingon High Council were having trouble wrapping their head around the financial logic and maneuvering Quark was describing. they certainly seemed to get the gist of it though, since Gowron actually goes so far as to confront D'Ghor over the tactics chosen. presumably bringing down a Great House in itself was not a major crime, but doing so through 'dishonorable' means like financial schemes is.

[[folder: The Ritual of Mauk-to'Vor]]
* Why didn't Worf and Kurn simply travel to Klingon Territory to perform the Mauk-to'Vor ritual? Or anywhere that isn't Federation territory, really? They couldn't come up with an excuse for Worf to be gone for a few days?
* And would the ritual be valid by Klingon standards, since ''Worf'' is the actual disgraced one, not Kurn?

! Trill

[[folder: Why did Jadzia cover her spots]]
* In ''Trials and Tribble-ations'', why did Jadzia cover up her spots? She herself said that one of Dax's previous hosts, Emony, met [=McCoy=] at the University. And Curzon was an old friend of Koloth. That being the case, the Trill were known by the Federation at the time, so why would Jadzia need to pose as a human?
** Because there are no other trills on board the Enterprise. An observant man aware of that fact would start asking questions.
*** For that matter it may be the case that no Trills served in Starfleet at this stage.

[[folder: Putting a murderer in a combat-trained SF Officer's body]]
* In ''Facets'' Jadzia goes through a ritual that puts the past hosts in other people's bodies. Not that strange until they put ''Joran'' in Sisko's body. They put the mind of a man so wild that he murdered a person in the body of a combat trained officer? Without even restraints or anything more secure than a force field? What did they intend to do if there was a power outage? Send a warning across the station to watch out for the mighty Sisko Fist? You even see the flaws of the idea in the episode, Jadzia was crazy enough to turn off the force field without anyone else in the room or any confirmation that Sisko really was in control (which nearly got her killed).
** Technically all of them except Quark and Leeta are trained soldiers. It would have been dangerous no matter who they put Joran in. Sisko volunteered because A) he didn't want to make anyone else take the risk, and B) he thought he could control Joran. In the unlikely event of a power outage Jadzia would have knocked Sisko out. And if she didn't, the door to the detention area was locked anyway.
*** I think their reasoning was a) [[TheMenFirst Sisko and Dax didn't want anyone else taking on the responsibility]], and b) If Joran started misbehaving, Sisko could tamp him down.
** I think a more significant issue is that they put Joran in the body of someone who ''has the authorization codes and voiceprint to activate the self-destruct sequence''.
*** Aside from when Curzon merged with Odo, it didn't seem like the Dax personalities were able to access the minds of the people whose bodies they were inhabiting. The only apparent connection between host and Dax personality was that the host could reemerge at will, which the Dax personality knew the host wanted, as demonstrated by Quark interrupting his part of the ceremony. Therefore, Joran in Sisko's body might have had the voice print to do it, but not the knowledge of the code needed. I think it would have been brought up if it was likely to be a problem though.
** Joran also went through some character retconning/development over the series. When we first learned about him he simply killed a guy. By the time we get to Ezri he's turned into Hannibal Lecter.

[[folder: Symbiont relationships]]
* We're told several times throughout the series that the number of Trill symbionts available for joining is pretty small. And in "Rejoined" we find that joined Trills are prohibited from having serious relationships not only with living friends and family of previous hosts, but ''also with the new hosts to symbionts that past hosts used to have a serious relationship with,'' even if it was several hosts back. And there doesn't seem to be a statute of limitations on this. If we accept that joined Trills, like any other "elite" subset of any society, would prefer to seek each other's company, doesn't it follow that symbionts would run out of people to associate with eventually?
** For that matter, what's with Jadzia getting posted to the station commanded by one of Curzon's closest friends, or her running off with three Klingons to fulfill an oath that Curzon made with them, or Ezri getting sent to [=DS9=] to replace Jadzia? In "Rejoined", Jadzia specifically says that the taboo does ''not'' apply only to marital/sexual relationships, but to close interpersonal bonds of all kinds, so isn't this episode massively inconsistent with ''the entire rest of the series?'' Was it just [[ExcusePlot an excuse to get]] [[{{Fanservice}} Terry Farrell kissing another woman on camera?]]
*** Ezri didn't replace Jadzia at [=DS9=] as Jadzia was a science officer, Ezri was a counsellor. It was just that Ezri never wanted to be joined, so had a harder time of dealing with her now close connections to the [=DS9=] crew, so stayed due to the familiarity.
*** I think some people find it harder to deal with some of these interpersonal relationships over others.
** There's a ton of inconsistency about the Trill within [=DS=]9 (and a ton more if you include "The Host"). Wouldn't Ezri's dalliance with Worf be just as taboo as the events of "Rejoined"? As you say, the fact that Jadzia holds herself to Curzon's blood oath stands firmly at odds with her self-declaration "I'm not Curzon" mere episodes earlier in "Playing God"?
*** There is a big difference between having a different personal style versus whether or not to honor an obligation. In the case of "Blood Oath" it could have been that the oath in question bound not just Curzon (host), but Dax (the symbiont), whereas, in "Playing God", Jadzia Dax was emphasizing the differences in her personal style. Indeed, her attitude in "Blood Oath" is entirely consistent with that in the season one episode "Dax", where she keeps Curzon's promise at great risk to herself.
*** I think being a Dax as similar to real life family structure ("Dax" does become in effect the family name of each host after all, like Curzon Dax, Jadzia Dax, and Ezri even changed her original "Tigan" name to Dax after being joined, effectively becoming "married" to the Dax symbiote). So Jadzia's relationship to Curzon could be seen as his "daughter"; she is her own person with her own way of doing things, but her personality is partly influenced by him and she would likely keep any family secrets or promises out of a sense of loyalty to her "father".
** Perhaps the provision is only loosely enforced regarding non-Trill? The main reason to prohibit ongoing relationships is to allow the symbiote to have new experiences because it's extremely long lived (if not immortal) and as such could continue repeating relationships over the course of several lifetimes with no net gain. On the other hand, races such as Human or Klingon are mortal and as such less of an issue as they inevitably die, forcing the Trill to make new friends. Even Vulcans and Ferengi only seem to live a couple of centuries, not that long compared to the Trill symbiote.
* I once read an explanation that theorized that Erzi was posted to [=DS=]9 to benefit Ezri, rather than Dax. That since she was never prepared for the side effects of the joining they thought it would help her to be in a familiar location, at least temporarily. It's utter fanwank of course but it seemed to have a certain logic to it.
* WordOfGod (found on Memory Alpha) from the show's writers and producers says that the main reason for the rejoining taboo is so that joined Trill don't perpetually reassociate and create an aristocracy of the joined, which would be bad both for Trill society (where joined individuals are already considered somewhat elite) and the host (who would be subsumed by the symbiont's desires). So yeah, the provision is Trill-specific and doesn't apply to cases like Sisko or Worf.
** That certainly makes sense, but as with many WordOfGod decrees, one wonders if it would have been so hard to find a place to say this in an episode.
** We're shown that the Federation won't let a planet in if it has a caste system, maybe that's Trill's way of "finding a loophole" to be a member of the Federation. (Assuming they are; I guess it's never explicitly stated.)
*** We're told that the Federation prohibits discrimination based on caste, not caste systems period.
* Since the Dominion War was going go poorly and the Federation had done some ethically questionable things already, what if Ezri was ordered back to [=DS=]9 once she got Dax explicitly because she would already be familiar with the people and station. Given its strategic value, I could see Starfleet saying "damn the taboo, we're at war" and fixing it later.

[[folder: But the Other Dax did it!]]
* In a culture that regularly changes hosts, why don't the Trill have a precedent for crimes committed by a previous host?
** They probably don't prosecute. One of Jadzia's previous hosts committed murder, they simply erased any record of him and repressed the memories within the symbiont. Odds are they just write any problems like that off as a problem with the host. Hell, Dax has two, possibly three, hosts (the murderer, the guy who stole it for a few hours and possibly the future one from that one planet) that commit serious crimes and nobody ever seems to think there may be a problem with Dax itself for allowing the actions to happen.
** Trill society could easily have one. However, the symbionts have only been open knowledge to all races within the last couple of years, so it would have been dealt by Trill alone, and other species would not have precedent on the books yet. Tandro wanted Dax to be tried by Klaestrons, presumably so that Dax would be executed and he would have 'avenged' his father's death.
*** So when they got the Trill expert witness, why didn't they just ask him what their policy was for the crimes of past hosts? They never did.
** No human government refrains from punishing simply because a criminal had a spouse and children. They have to suffer and in a sense they are punished collectively even though that is not the intent of the law. Trill probably made the same reasoning about symbionts.
*** Although there is a big difference between innocently suffering because a loved one is in prison versus suffering because ''you'' are in prison. The fact remains that, assuming Curzon was guilty, Jadzia certainly wasn't; neither would she have known about Curzon's crimes prior to joining, and one could not imprison Dax without imprisoning (or killing) Jadzia.
** Since the Trill system seems to go out of its way to erase any mention of a former host committing a crime and pretends that its system is perfect it's entirely possible that there isn't a single publicly known crime committed by a symbiont until Jadzia was put on trial (and acquitted). They may have decided in their arrogance that since no host would ever commit a crime there was no point in working out the legal ramifications.
*** Then where was the "why the hell are we talking about this? A joined host couldn't have committed the crime" speech from the Trill expert witness?
*** Out-of-universe probably because that point about Trill mentality wasn't established in season 1. In-universe because a government willing to kidnap a Starfleet officer and only ''after'' they were caught try to invoke an extradition treaty probably isn't going to listen to a Trill arguing that no host would ever commit a crime and the Bajoran arbitrator would be justifiably skeptical as well. Frankly that's not the strangest of the episode's problems since no one points out the weakness of the 'we confirmed every other suspect's location' evidence and Sisko argues only about the nature of Trill hosts without trying to look into the prosecution's claims.

[[folder: more about Dax's extradition]]
Okay, so there are four possibilities:
* The Trill are not a member of the Federation, and Dax is not a citizen (which could be possible, seeing as how Starfleet is a scientific organization first, and a military second).
** In that case, the Klaestron would have been unable to extradite her.
** Re: "... which could be possible, seeing as how Starfleet is a scientific organization first, and a military second". The Federation canonically does allow non-citizens to serve, although per Nog, getting into Starfleet Academy requires the endorsement of a serving command-level officer. This is also true in real life, at least in the United States: you're allowed to enlist if you have a green card, and in fact it's often treated as a step towards citizenship.
* The Trill are a member of the Federation, but Dax is not a citizen.
** She wouldn't be a citizen, so they couldn't extradite her AND the Federation would have to have established whether a conjoined Trill is a single person or multiple people.
* The Trill are not a member of the Federation, but Dax is a citizen.
** In that case, she should be registered as either a single person or as two people. If she is registered as a single person, she would obviously count as a single person under federation law and not be extradited.
* The Trill are a member of the federation and Dax is a citizen.
** All of the above.
* That means that in every case, either Dax couldn't be extradited, or there would have to a law already established.
** It wasn't until TNG's "The Host" that Trill Symbionts became widely known. Before then, they were very private about such matters. That episode took place in 2367. "Dax" takes place in 2369. To put this in perspective, Data was in Starfleet for over 20 years before his right to choose became law.

[[folder: Trills "do not seek relationships"]]
* OK, so was Jadzia's line to Julian about how Trills don't look for romance the same way other species do, a load of malarkey or what? She's shown by her own actions in "Rejoined", "Looking for ''par'Mach'' in All the Wrong Places", and "Meridian" that ''that's'' certainly not true. Within a couple days of meeting the guy, they promise to count each other's spots. Anyway, was Jadzia just saying that to get Julian off her back, or what?
** For most of those episodes: EarlyInstallmentWeirdness, but for a more Watsonian explanation? IIRC, Jadzia is giving that explanation to Julian, who has been constantly hitting on her. It could also still be something that's a general joined Trill principle, but one that you don't tend to follow if [[TheCasanova Curzon Dax]] is one of your past hosts--once she began integrating him along with her other past hosts, she decided to go with his more maverick attitude towards life and cared more about enjoying herself and giving Dax a lively experience than following all the ideals for a "good" joined Trill. As for Meridian, it is just a terrible, terrible episode and it's best to ignore its existence. Even the creators hated it.
*** She isn't interested in Bashir so she just says some random crap to get him to leave her alone. It's her equivalent of "I'm not looking for a relationship", "I don't want to ruin our friendship", "I'm just too busy right now", etc.
*** This is it exactly. Bashir is acting like a teenager with a crush, and Jadzia is just not interested in him. She was just trying to be polite. Women do this exact same thing ALL THE TIME in real life, it shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone.

[[folder: The Next Generation Trills]]
* OK, so the real world explanation is for why the Trills changed from a Stargate SG-1 Goa'uld style race into a far more benign one is obvious. But how do we explain this in-universe? Are there in fact two different kinds of Trill? Are there two different kinds of symbiont? Are there conveniently two different races with symbionts that just so happen to be called Trill? Was the Trill seen in the Next Generation some kind of mutation or renegade? There are numerous fascinating things that could come of this, [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot and many potential stories that we missed out on]] and yet very few answers.
** The expanded universe does established in one of the novels that there are two races of Trills, in a similar way how we have different races that may look very different from each other. As for why the TNG Trill's symbiont seem to be unknown for the crew and/or unwilling/unable to use a transporter, IDK if that was ever explained.
*** There's no canonical explanation, but there's a reasonable inference - at the time of "The Host," the symbionts were a secret, kept from non-Trill. Using the transporter, the symbiont could be picked up as a biological contaminant and 'filtered out' by the transporter's biofilters, which at best (as we saw) blows the lid on the secret, and at worst, could result in the death of the symbiont, and, by extension, the host as well, given that their bodies are dependent on each other after a few days of the initial joining.
** Even if you ignore everything else, the fact that [=DS9=] Trill have a longstanding relationship with the Federation (we know that Emony Dax was on Earth in the 23rd century, even, and Curzon was a Federation ambassador in the 2290s at the absolute latest) simply does not jibe with "The Host."

! Ferengi

[[folder: "We're better"]]
* One of Quark's best scenes comes in "The Jem'Hadar," when he turns Sisko's Federation highhandedness back on him: "You're overlooking something, Commander. Humans used to be a lot worse than Ferengi. Slavery, concentration camps, interstellar war; we have nothing in our past that approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We're nothing like you. We're better." It's a great example of how [=DS=]9 calls out ''Franchise/StarTrek'' as a whole on its often hypocritical values. But does it really make sense? The Ferengi hardly have a great record on gender, and we have seen in other episodes that they do indeed practice slavery -- maybe not of other Ferengi, but what difference should that make? And as we see in "Business as Usual," some Ferengi seem to have no trouble abetting genocide, so long as there's a profit in it.
** I think you may have answered your own question, at least to a point. Unlike humans, the Ferengi haven't enslaved their own kind, which to them may be morally inferior to just slavery in general, and perhaps they don't believe that enslavement of other species is slavery at all. And ''abetting'' genocide isn't ''committing'' genocide. True, they're both morally bankrupt and reprehensible acts, but the minor differences may be enough for Quark to convince himself of Ferengi superiority (which he does, right up to the end of "Business as Usual", and that's mostly because of the scale of that particular slaughter, rather than the act itself). Whether he's right ''objectively'' is another matter, but I believe that at least Quark can justify it to himself (keep in mind that Sisko's reaction basically amounts to "You have ''got'' to be kidding me.").
** History is written by the publishers. It's just as likely the history books detailing the slavery and warfare perpetrated by the Ferengi just don't sell as well as the ones that never question the wisdom of the Rules of Acquisition.
** I wouldn't deny that it probably all makes sense in Quark's mind. But for me at least, subjecting these claims to scrutiny weakens the overall dramatic impact of the scene.
** [[FridgeLogic That could be the point.]] Quark goes on about how the Ferengi are better than hew-mons, but in reality the Ferengi have the same flaws that Quark denies. Consider how we tell ourselves today that we are better than our ancestors from even just a few generations back, and then compare our mental image with the reality in the streets.
** This misses the primary point. The Ferengi are BlueAndOrangeMorality, but they stick to that. Humans say genocide, slavery, etc. is bad, but did it for thousands of years. Ferengi said not making profit is bad, and (with only small individual exceptions) held to that. This would be similar to only a few cases of fights in the history of human civilization. The point is the Ferengi stick to their moral code, humans don't.
*** You can't call hypocrisy on an entire species. Especially not when the moral values you claim humans don't stick to didn't even exist for most of our history.
*** No, and furthermore, Quark does accuse humans of hypocrisy, but it's along the lines of "You think you're better than us but your horrible history reveals otherwise," not "we are at least consistent in our values." It's simply not what he says. Other [=DS=]9 episodes try to redeem the Ferengi along the similar lines (I recall an episode where Nog suggests that the Ferengi could end the Dominion War through their methods by finding something each side wants), but this is a bit of a retcon of the fact that Ferengi were initially presented as a warlike species.
** I've been wondering what Quark's mother would think of his little speech. Think she'd agree that his definition of "slavery" needs revising? My dictionary defines it as treating people as property. [[SarcasmMode But of course, the Ferengi would]] ''[[SarcasmMode never]]'' [[SarcasmMode do that.]] [[NoWomansLand Especially not to half their population]].
** Quark's "We're better" speech is very reminiscent of the morals of a lot of early TNG episodes, in that it makes sense so long as you don't think about it too hard. Objectively speaking, the Ferengi are absolutely ''not'' better than the Federation. They may not personally indulge in concentration camps or interstellar war (though I find it hard to believe they've never had to fight a war before) but they certainly have no problem enabling other civilizations to do that via arms deals and such. And as the above troper points out, I think a lot of Ferengi females including Quark's own mother would take great issue with his statement about slavery. Furthermore, I find Quark's statement that the Ferengi ''never'' do such things completely ridiculous on the face of it. We're talking about a culture where ''bribery'' is considered ''common courtesy''. Are we really supposed to believe that in a culture where bribery is explicitly endorsed by the majority religion ([=ROA=] #98: Every man has his price) that ''no'' Ferengi has ''ever'' bribed a law enforcement officer to turn a blind eye to slave trading, hate crimes, or murder? Obviously this doesn't happen all the time, but surely it must happen sometimes, or has happened in the past. And if it's okay for Quark to condemn the entire Federation because ''some'' humans in the past committed genocide or endorsed slavery, then by his very own logic the Ferengi deserve the same condemnation.
* In Universe, as pointed out on the WMG page, it's highly unlikely that a single school on Ferenginar teaches anything but Ferengi exceptionalism, so Quark's speech is pretty much like a citizen of the People's Republic Of Tyrrany or any fascist regime boasting about their non-existent crime or how they've never committed genocide because Jews aren't really people. Out of universe, either the writers simply forgot Ferengi atrocities in giving Quark a moment of CharacterDevelopment, or he's meant to be a dark mirror of speech-givers like Picard, because both are only preaching what they know.

[[folder: Rom's stands all he can stands]]
* In the first season, Quark is named the Grand Nagus' successor, and shortly thereafter the Nagus fakes his death to see how his son would react. He had hoped he could come out of retirement, but the Nagus' son instead tried to get a KlingonPromotion. Rom was part of the scheme, and was very close to pushing the button before Odo and Zek intervened. Now, that was in season one. Quark already knows Rom has it in him to kill him if he's pushed too far. So why the heck does Quark keep TemptingFate with Rom? "One for you, seven for me" happened in Season 2. (Rom scurried away, whining.) Rigging Nog's entrance exam into the Academy... refusing to give him any kinda employee protection until he forms the union. Is Quark ''trying'' to get Rom to kill him?! Man, family is ''complicated.''
** Rom isn't bright enough to make Quark's death look like an accident, so even if he killed him and fled the station maybe Quark has something in his will to the effect of, "In the event of my death by unnatural circumstances, I bequeath my assets to Tholian assassins as payment to kill my brother Rom."
** The idea of Rom conspiring to assassinate Quark has the aura of EarlyInstallmentWeirdness, doesn't it?
** Agreed to the above statement, up there with Odo seeing through Quark's deception in ''Babel'' because Rom supposedly fixed something yet, according to Odo "Rom's an idiot. He couldn't fix a straw if it was bent." As to the parent poster, don't forget the Rules of Acquisition: "111: Treat people in your debt like family - exploit them." and, from Voyager - "Exploitation begins at home!" meaning first exploit your family members.

[[folder:Don't Mess With the Ferengi Commerce Authority!]]
* The existence of the Ferengi Commerce Authority really bugs me. Remember the Liquidator who somehow had the authority to come on to Deep Space 9 (a ''Federation'' outpost), shut down Quark's bar and threaten to sell all of his financial holdings because of his Mother's actions? How can they possibly have that power?
** Well, even though Quark's is on a Federation outpost, the Ferengi are not a member of the Federation. Nog couldn't even join Starfleet unless Sisko sponsored him.
** Quark is working under the authority of the Ferengi Commerce Authority. Regardless of ''where'' he works, he still has to operate under Ferengi law to keep their authority. Without their authority he cannot do business with other Ferengi. They have every right to revoke his license and take any other actions required under Ferengi law. It's like if you work for an American company in Russia. Your company can revoke your ability to do business with them there. (The Ferengi Government is more like a corporation than a government if you recall).
*** Plus, it's not a Federation outpost. It's a Bajoran outpost with a Federation administration.
*** It's not unprecedented for a government authority to have the ability to reach your assets in another jurisdiction. If you're American, you're a prisoner of the IRS wherever in the world you go. This is not true in most countries' tax systems, who only tax on money earned inside their borders.
** Because his financial holdings are only recognized by the Ferengi government. The Federation can't stop Brunt from selling off Quark's assets because those assets ''do not exist" as far as the Federation is concerned. It would be like the United States trying to stop Switzerland from seizing the assets of a Swiss tourist.
** At the end of the episode, he re-opens the bar and continues doing business after Sisko &co. donate furniture and resources (for the community's benefit). The FCA can stop him trading legally with other Ferengi, but have no power to stop him running a business in Bajoran territory, so they don't. ([[HandWave Let's just assume]] that the Ferengi staff are now formally employed by Sisko or something.)
*** Actually, for the duration of the revocation of Quark's business license, no Ferengi are seen working in the bar. Presumably he hires extra dabo girls, who then pull double duty as waitresses.
* Doesn't its very existence go against the Ferengi principle of free enterprise anyway?
** Awfully good question. If the Ferengi are ultra-free market capitalists, then where did all of this regulation come from? Are we supposed to think that the FCA collects taxes from its members? Evidently not, because late episodes state outright that taxes are verboten on Ferenginar (or at least were)... perhaps they collect licensing fees or something similar, but surely operating under their authority is something you have to pay to do, no?
*** It's more complicated than that. In "The Nagus" (an episode filled with EarlyInstallmentWeirdness, to be sure), when Quark becomes Nagus, it's implied that the Nagus (maybe acting through the FCA) decides who can do business where, and while in theory they might not always take a cut, it seems like the deals he makes ensure that they generally do. In other words, it operates more like a Mafia than a laissez-faire capitalist government. It seems to me that toward the end they wanted to make a political point against ultra-libertarianism that was different than the points they were making earlier (or even in other late episodes), and they used the Ferengi to do it.
** If the FCA is officially a monopolistic conglomeration rather than a government, then they can skirt around the free enterprise, no-tax thing by calling them "membership fees" or rent money for living on FCA property (Ferenginar). All Ferengi businesses might be franchises of the FCA and are required to pay supplier fees.
** There are laws governing Ferengi commerce, but they aren't laws that restrict it i.e. monopoly busting. They are instead designed to ensure that things like unions and contract violations don't interfere with the pursuit of profit. That's why Quark lost his license: he violated the terms of his contract with Brunt, and Brunt used his position to strip Quark's license as an act of petty revenge. Presumably the FCA is funded by the licensing fees that business owners have to pay in order to operate.
** Ferengi Government isn't "Free Market", it's pro-business. This is a society where greed is considered a virtue, and where cutthroat business practices aren't simply allowed, they're actively encouraged by centralized powers.
*** On at least one occasion (in "The Dogs of War"), Quark explicitly cites "free enterprise" as a Ferengi virtue. Mind
it would hardly be inconsistent for Ferengis to talk about favouring free markets while actually preferring heavily regulated markets -- just regulation of a particular kind.

[[folder: Why are there no Ferengi Suffragettes?]]
* I find it very hard to believe that a society that has oppresses women to such ridiculous levels that they have to be completely naked in public would not have a Suffragette style movement triggered across the entire Alliance. A lot of people today forget that women back then often resorted to criminal behavior to achieve their ends - vandalizing property and chaining themselves to buildings etc and with the 24th century ability to communicate and travel on a planetary scale (something that was far harder in the early 20th) there should be outbreaks of violence and crime everywhere. And I refuse to believe the Ferengi government would employ Taliban level tactics of stoning women or chopping off their hands to prevent wide scale action due to A) The Federation would have something to say about that (Prime Directive aside) B) It would sully Quark's character irredeemably as all of those comic moments of arguing with his mum and refusing to acknowledge Pel would suddenly take on some very uncomfortable fascist implications. At the ''very'' least there should be women ''everywhere'' outright flouting the ban on clothes and traveling off world to conduct business - the FCA wouldn't have authority on other sovereign planets no matter how much they may claim to. As I see it, from the evidence presented, either Ferengi women simply weren't trying hard enough to change their society before Ishka started dating the Grand Nagus or they were actually on the whole quite happy with the situation with only a few dissenters around like Ishka and Pel.
** It's possible that plenty of Ferengi feminists exist, but they're such an embarrassment to misogynist Ferengi men that the men do not talk openly about them. Another possibility is that Ferengi men keep most Ferengi women ignorant of the outside world, so that many female Ferengi females wouldn't know that another way of life is possible (think Afghanistan or the FLDS). Ishka and Pel might have been among the few Ferengi women who received an education and a taste of life beyond their home planet.
** Watch Ishka's performance at the end of Family Business when she pretends to hand over all her profits to Brunt. She's trying (though not very well) to come off as a StepfordSmiler. From this it can be inferred that many or most Ferengi women are not very well educated and probably don't even comprehend how repressed they really are.
** Given the punitive measures threatened against Quark for his profit-earning, it's also likely that many Ferengi women who ''are'' well-educated and who haven't internalized their culture's extreme misogyny are discouraged because they don't want to ruin the prospects of their husbands/brothers/fathers/sons.
** When the series was written, no one could have predicted the way social media affected political movements a decade or so later. Yes, it would have been supremely interesting if [=DS=]9 was written during Arab Spring, and they probably could have subtly incorporated some 24th century equivalent of a social media revolution
** Rom's wife was said to have have exploited a loophole in her marriage contract and returned to her family, so, while the system is highly patriarchal, women can still exploit it. Also, while they lord over their wives, "Never insult a Ferengi's mother" is still in the Rules Of Acquisition, meaning women probably do have some pull within the household.
*** The full rule was revealed by the EU as being "Never insult a Ferengi's mother; insult something he cares about," but the point about Rom's wife is still valid.
** The Ferengi government probably draws the line at stoning or mutilation, but we have seen many times they do practice the death penalty on people who challenge the existing order, even in the pursuit of profit and in relatively minor ways, and in general they never struck me as above more authoritarian practices despite what they claim. Not to mention, even if there'd be little legal recompense for a woman flouting the sexist laws, defying a tradition that has dictated how half the population had behaved for millennia would come with immense social stigma, just like it does in real life.

[[folder: Female Oo-Mox]]
* Was it ever stated as to why Oo-Mox is something only the males can experience? If I had to theorize it's because female lobes are smaller and as such may not be as ridiculously vulnerable to pleasure/pain that male lobes are but I was wondering if there was ever a canon reason given.
** I'm not entirely sure it's ever suggested that oo-mox isn't pleasurable for Ferengi females (though I'm working off memory so I could be wrong). If it is, your theory seems plausible--higher density of nerve endings due to the smaller area of their ears ''does'' sound like something that might make oo-mox uncomfortable for them. Given the misogyny in Ferengi culture, though, it seems just as likely that it is pleasant, but nobody cares what Ferengi women like.
** It doesn't make much sense for female oo-mox ''not'' to be possible. After all, humans of both genders share pretty much all the same erogenous zones, despite our considerable anatomical differences. Unless the Ferengi deliberately genetically engineered this difference between their males and females (which...is not entirely out of the question) Ferengi females probably can enjoy oo-mox. But, as the above troper speculates, it's likely no one bothers to give it to them.
** Looking at this discussion it seems very likely that the writers were echoing certain ideas on female orgasms on purpose.

[[folder: Rom's Esoteric Happy Ending]]
* Realistically, how long is someone like Rom going to last as Grand Nagus surrounded by so many people who are going to vehemently oppose everything that he stands for? Brunt or someone similar is going to find a way to crush him either legally or illegally in short order and revert the Alliance back to the way it was with maybe a few concessions here and there to appease his supporters. And that goes double for the radical (for them) new rights for females that he and Zek brought in. You can't change a culture this misogynistic in such a short space of time, real life just doesn't work that way. Perhaps best illustrated by Zek, one of the progressive architects of this new age, visibly awestruck when Ishka suggested that there may be a female Grand Nagus one day. Imagine how the more traditional Ferengi are going to respond. My FridgeHorror sense is tingling as to the sort of bile the first clothed women are going to experience on the streets, and worse, when they start to answer back to men who are used to women being in their place. You only need to look at similarly sexist places on our own planet to see evidence of that.
** Keep in mind that the Ferengi are not human and do not react the way humans do. What they care about most is earning profits and as long as that happens they're willing to accept changes, even if it's reluctantly. Yes, there will be a period where women are still treated badly simply out of habit but in time that will fade and be forgotten. Remember when the Nagus was changed by the wormhole aliens? He founded a bunch of very un-Ferengi groups that fly in the face of the culture's values and yet they were still fully staffed by Ferengi, even though Quark and Rom agree they'll all be executed if this continues? It seems that the Ferengi are willing to give anything a try so long as it leads to profits in the long run. Of course if it doesn't then yes Rom is screwed but he's not as stupid as he seems and will likely change things one piece at a time so they can accept it.

[[folder: Death Customs]]
* In "The Nagus", dried remains of the Nagus are sold, but since he's not really dead, what's in the disks and who authenticated them?
** Either they're fake or they're the remains of some other Ferengi, and the authentication is similarly forged. After all, this is a vital step in Zek's faking of his death, since it would look suspicious if such disks did not hit the market. Related question: do Nava and the others who bought the disks get their money back? Knowing what I do of Ferengis, I seriously doubt it.
*** There was probably some sort of disclaimer buried deep in the T&C (I bet the Ferengi are big fans of EULA's that would make even itunes blush in embarrassment), remember Rule of Acquisition #1.
--> "Once you have their money, never give it back".
*** And Rule of Acquisition #239:
--> "Never be afraid to mislabel a product."
*** In "The Alternate," we hear that Quark possesses fraudulent remains attributed to a Ferengi named Plegg. Quark simply states, "The Ferengi Seal of Dismemberment is right there." One can expect something similar is the case with Zek; some minimum standard of accreditation has been met, placing it in the legal clear.
** What bothers me though is that episode where Quark promises to turn himself into disks for Brunt, realises that he is not going to die so he backs out, but STILL has to go through with it because of the Rule of Acquisition that states that a ''contract is a contract is a contract'' and Brunt has a contract for disks of Quark. So how is that any different to this situation? Brunt was down a Quark and all of those others were down a Zek. Sure, Zek is a lot more powerful than Quark, but even the Nagus seems to be at least partly under the control of the FCA and it would definitely hurt his credibility.
** The Nagus is (at least as of that episode; his age seems to catch up with him in later ones) also a lot more canny than Quark, and unlike Quark, no one was trying to entrap him into killing himself. So either the Nagus managed some EULA fine-print legalese kung fu that got him out of it, or he managed to trick / blackmail / bribe whoever bought the disks into letting him out of the contract. Or maybe the contract wasn't with the Nagus himself, but some offscreen fall guy who acted as the executor of his will and did the actual selling of the disks. Plenty of ways it could have gone down, we just never got the details because it's honestly not that important.
*** Yeah, the thrust of the issue in "Body Parts" was that Brunt refused to play ball with Quark's attempt to recompense him for the non-supplied disks. It's easy to imagine that Zek, with his resources, would have no such problem (anyone who decided to press the matter would probably just be "taken care of" Mafia-style).
** I bet even the fake remains of Zek from that time he faked his death are valuable keepsakes. Or try this on: maybe the Nagus made a clone of himself and had it vacuum desiccated so that his remains really are those of Zek -- just not ''that'' Zek. There's always a loophole!

! Bajorans

[[folder: Bajor the theocracy?]]
In "Shakaar", Kai Winn is the sole contender for the post of First Minister for several weeks, until the titular rebel decides to join in. It's meant to [[{{Foreshadowing}} foreshadow]] the sort of person Winn will show herself to be, but wait. She's the Kai ''and'' running for First Minister? That would be like the Pope running for a Presidency, and ''very'' illegal in some countries (particularly ones with an established church[=/=]state separation). She talks about trying to enhance Bajor's chances with TheFederation, but would ''they'' be cool with a system that allows such a thing to happen?
** The separation of church and state is usually ''de jure'' in nation-states that have a high percentage of religious minorities. And it's to protect the rights of the minority. If the U.S. changed to a reactionary Christian theocracy, it would infringe upon the rights of Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi, atheists, agnostics and so on that live in the U.S.-- a not-insignificant percentage. (Note: I am ''not'' interested in getting into a debate about the American system of government; this is merely to illustrate a point). In other countries where the separation of church and state is far less pronounced, the overwhelming majority of its citizens tend to follow that religion; some countries even make it a crime to follow any ''other'' religion. But I've seen no evidence of anything other than a single religion predominating Bajor. They follow the Prophets. A ''tiny'' percentage are members of the Pah-wraith cult, and are ostracized. In any event, the Federation tends to let its individual members choose their own systems of government-- and we've had some ''doozies.''
*** True, but Sisko also said at one point that the Federation prohibits "caste-based discrimination" and will refuse membership to worlds that practice it. We can assume they also prohibit religious discrimination since it makes no sense to ban the former but not the latter. Since discrimination against religious minorities is never brought up as a possible barrier to Bajor's admission to the Federation, we can assume the Bajorans don't discriminate against religious minorities. At least, not officially.
** It's possible that this is meant to say more about the Bajoran people than the Bajoran form of government. They've not even a generation removed from The Occupation, in which the Cardassians dominated every aspect of the Bajoran way of life except for their religion. For better or worse, people often turn to religion when placed in an intolerable situation. The Bajorans were slaves and prisoners under Cardassian rule, and like slaves and prisoners often do, they tried to find comfort in their religion. It makes sense that once they were free, they looked to their clergy for leadership. Electing Shakaar instead of Winn is might be meant to be seen another step toward a healed Bajor.
** It makes sense that everyone on Bajor believes in the Prophets because they are very real. The only points of contention are whether the Bajoran religion is truly influenced by them intentionally (rather than simply being 'interpretation' of the orbs sending out random images) and, if so, whether any given person should listen to them or not. Just because God exists, and tells you what to do, does not make it the ''right'' thing to do.
*** Yep, not only are the Prophets real, but the Federation also recognizes they are real. They just call them "wormhole aliens" instead of Prophets.
* Even in the United States, it would hardly be without precedent for a religious official to hold a major political office. After all, Mike Huckabee was Governor of Arkansas and ran for president while being an ordained minister, and Jimmy Carter was a Baptist deacon ("Deacon" was even his Secret Service codename!). Certainly some religions (including Catholicism) bar their officials from holding political office but not all by a long shot, and the fact that a person is a political leader and a religious one at the same time does not in itself make for a theocracy.
* The other question this issue raises is a more practical one. Isn't being both Kai and First Minister far more responsibilities than one person could ever take on? Even if no law prevented, just for a random example, the Dalai Lama from running for President of India, isn't it still practically ruled out by the sheer volume of work that would entail? In the scenario prevented in "Shakaar," it seems less like Queen Elizabeth being simultaneously a de jure head of state and the titular head of the Church of England (which she is) and more like the Archbishop of Canterbury also being Prime Minster of the United Kingdom! Imagine the paperwork!
** With enough skill and delegation there is no problem. Now whether Winn had those skills or the willingness to delegate is another question entirely.
*** True enough, and in any pure theocracy, the office of head of government and that of religious leader are one and the same. But the point I was trying to strike is just that in a system that is not geared this way, in which these ''are'' separate offices, merging them seems like an Herculean task.
*** With the ramshackle nature of the "Provisional" Government of Bajor and the power-seeking/controlling nature of her character, I'm willing to be Winn probably had some ''interesting'' ideas on merging the office of First Minister and Kai as far as duties went. Probably not realistic ideas (it would certainly nix any idea about Federation membership, not that Winn would lose any sleep over that), but that is Winn in a nutshell.
** For the record, the Dalai Lama ''was'' the head of government for Tibet for centuries, until it was conquered by China and the current Dalai Lama went into exile.
*** That's perhaps the purest definition of a theocracy -- the head of government and head of a faith being one and the same.
* Well actually the Pope is both the religious leader of the Catholic Church AND the head of state of the Vatican City, and the Dalai Lama although in exile, was until very recently similarly handling both political (or at least administrative) and religious offices, so yes, it can be done. But anyway, in most countries is not forbidden for a religious figure to run for office, and I can be wrong because I’m not American, but as far as I know it’s not forbidden either in the USA, to give an example the president of the Mormon faith can run for president of the USA if he wants, as the president of any other denomination like the Lutherans or the Episcopalians, they just choose not to do it, probably to avoid mixing religion and politics. Some countries do have that specific prohibition, for example in Mexico and Costa Rica their constitutions explicitly forbid that Catholic priests can run for public office, but these is mainly because their current constitutions were written after liberal revolutions again the conservatives and the idea of Church/State separation becoming very important for the liberals because their defeated enemies had the endorsement of the Church. Clearly if Bajor haven’t pass through that kind of social and historical context they probably see no reason for the prevention.
** Minor thing, but since 1983 Catholicism does explicitly prohibit its clergy from running for civil office (other than in the Vatican, obviously). It's not unheard of, though. Some countries have constitutions that prohibit it as well, largely in Latin America.
** Contrary to popular belief, the US tradition of separation of church and state is just that, a tradition. The Constitution never uses the phrase in any way. All it says in the Bill of Rights is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Essentially, it says that Congress can't establish a state religion (e.g. The Church England) or prevent people from worshiping as they wish. There is nothing at all about a person keeping their personal religious beliefs separate from civic duties.
* It can be noted that the writers often treated Bajor as if it were a theocracy, with the Kai being entrusted with negotiating treaties with the Cardassians ("Life Support") and Dominion ("In the Cards") rather than a representative of the planet's civilian government. One wonders if prior to the Occupation, the Kai was literally the head of state. The show's subtle shift away from Bajoran politics in later seasons leaves some promising avenues of storytelling unexplored (a brewing civil war representing a power struggle between Shakaar and Winn, perhaps -- maybe over entry to the Federation? Where would the moderate Vedeks fall in? Does the average Bajoran side with the Provisional Government or the traditional religious authority of the Kai? Do more religious elements of the military break with Shakaar and side with Winn? etc.).
** So Bajor is basically Iran...
** For the record, the non-canon prequel novel trilogy ''Literature/TerokNor'' shows Bajor did have a (theoretically) secular government before the Occupation.
** Interestingly, in "Sanctuary," we have both a Vedek and Minister travelling to DS9 to give the Skrreans the bad news, no doubt to make it clear that both the religious and civil authorities are in accord on this matter.
* Should be notice that both the Pope and the Dalai Lama have mostly ceremonial functions. The day-to-day administrative work is at the hands of others, each monastery has its own abbot, each order (in the case of Catholicism) and each school (in the case of Tibetan Buddhism) have their own hierarchy, and so on. As very old and very spread faiths that pre-date modern technology most of the management is already widely delegated into local authorities. I'm pretty sure the Dalai Lama can be Prime Minister of India and the Pope president of the US (or more likely Argentina I guess) without their respective religions to even feel it. If Bajor's religious organization is similar and most likely it is, then there's your answer.[[/folder]]

[[folder: We're more justified than you!]]
* The Bajorans. While you can sympathize with their plight that they've had 50 years of Holocaust-style oppression under the Cardassians, it starts to lose its impact when they excuse themselves at ''every'' opportunity of doing some evil act as being what they would have done during the Occupation. Sometimes they actually seem more cruel and extremist than the Cardassians.
** It becomes more egregious when you realize they had invented advanced technology BEFORE humanity even moved out of caves, what apart from religious fanaticism exactly stagnated the Bajorans so?
** It's hardly uncommon in Real Life. A person or a group of people feel (and might be entirely correct in doing so) that they have been victimized and so any action they take is justified while any action against them is not[[note]]Please no inserting RL examples, let's just say that they may exist depending on your viewpoint and leave it at that[[/note]]. In the eyes of many Bajorans what happened was either entirely justified or forced to happen by the Cardassians.
*** In the ''StarTrekTerokNor'' prequel novels, the reason for Bajor's "stagnation" is made clear: They have everything they need. Prior to the Cardassians' arrival, they had little interest in meeting with other races or even colonizing outside their star system, and those that did were considered fringe, at best.
*** A good comparison for this can be made with the Vulcans. They were way more advanced than humans, even leaving out ''Enterprise'' continuity. In the span of a few centuries Starfleet has outstripped them completely. The Bajorans just didn't have that drive.
*** That's not really the best example, because Vulcan is a founding member of the Federation. Vulcan scientists work side by side with human ones designing Starfleet's technology. And even when they don't work directly with each other, they share their discoveries.
** That seems to be the point that they were trying to make by having them act this way: it's understandable to blame the Occupation for Bajor's initial miseries, and even for a lot of what happens later i.e. being unable to defend themselves when the Dominion come calling. However, it is wrong to use that to justify actions that are as immoral as what they were fighting against, i.e. the bombing of Keiko's school. It's a sign of how far Bajor has to come before it can stand on its own feet again without someone to keep them on the straight and narrow. For lack of a better analogy, Sisko (and by extension, the Federation) is like a therapist trying to help an abuse victim avoid repeating the cycle of trauma that was inflicted on them and find productive ways to move on from what happened.
*** That was the main thrust of Kira, and Bajor's, development in the series, the Bajorans have every right to be angry about the occupation but they're not doing themselves any favors in the long run. [=DS9=] questioned a lot of Star Trek morality, but in Bajor's case, embracing the Federation's brand of multiculturalism really was the practical option.

[[folder: The terrorist is right]]
* Kira's reaction when confronted with her crimes in "The Darkness And The Light". She ''killed innocent people''. She admits it, and she doesn't feel the least bit guilty. Her response is to get angry at the guy who tells her how many innocents she hurt and yell at him that he was a legitimate target because he was a Cardassian on Bajor and it didn't matter whether he was a member of the military or not. And that all of the other people she killed, whether adults or elderly or children, whether military or civilian, whether armed or unarmed...they all deserved it because they were Cardassians on Bajor. After seeing that episode, I was ''glad'' that one of her victims put her through hell by murdering the other members of her resistance cell. She deserved it, and so did they.
** Your mileage may vary, but I love this episode for being one of the few episodes to show that several issues are multi-sided. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
** Kind of ignoring the circumstances of the statement. Kira was not only in the last stages of pregnancy, so the extra hormones weren't helping, the man was planning to cut the baby out of her, a baby that wasn't even hers but actually her close friend's, after she spent days watching her friends be murdered one after another. Had he merely shown up at the station and asked for an apology she may very well have given it to him, she had an entire episode in the first season where she learned the valuable lesson that not all Cardassians were monsters and should be punished solely for existing. Neither of them were particularly rational about the subject by that point.
** I personally thought it was great that she ''wasn't'' apologetic. She didn't try the "you're right, we all did things we had to do, it was war, can't we all get along?" card. She went right out and said, "Whether you were a military general or you picked up ''garbage'' for a living, you were a legitimate target!" Try to put yourself in her shoes... your country has been successfully invaded by a brutal dictatorship that enslaves, rapes and murders your people. I'd say the same damn thing.
*** That's pretty much the exact story of the Maquis (the French guerrilla fighters, not the group from the show), and history remembers them very kindly.
*** The main problem with the episode was it completely contradicted the much better season 1 episode "Duet", where Kira managed to mature past that black and white worldview and accept that the people at the bottom weren't automatically guilty. Darkness and Light was a real step backwards in both Kira's character development, and the maturity of the show as a whole.
*** One way of reconciling "Duet" and this episode is that in "Duet", Kira was forced to accept that Cardassians weren't all monsters, and some were truly good people. Note that Kira never disagrees with Marritza's claim that all Cardassia is guilty of the crimes during the Occupation. But in "The Darkness and the Light", Kira was dealing with an insane murderer. Her musings at the end made me think that she pitied Prin on some level, but that she felt she wasn't wrong.
*** It's not hard to reconcile them at all. Her point in "The Darkness and the Light" was that while fighting in the resistance, all Cardassians were legitimate targets as a means to the ends of getting them off the planet. Her point in "Duet" was that, in hindsight and from the Cardassians' point of view, their actions were not equally villainous. You may not like that mixture, but it's perfectly consistent; wartime and peacetime ethics are different. And also, in "Duet" he was repentant.
** Provoking these kinds of questions was the episode's point. I'm not convinced it does it especially well, but credit where credit is due.
*** It's debatable if those people were truly innocent. They were taking advantage of oppression, enslavement, and murder to live their lives as they wished.
*** Were they? The Cardassian Union seems to be highly autocratic. They might well have been conscripted into their positions. When you live in a dystopian dictatorship where dissent is punished with death, sometimes "just following orders" is a legitimate defense.
*** It's hard to say how legal theory might work several centuries from now but the defense of simply following orders hasn't protected anyone from being arrested for simply being guards at Nazi concentration camps.
*** Nazi concentration camp guards weren't forced into those jobs against their will. They would've either volunteered or been specially chosen for their obscene loyalty to the Nazi party and/or hatred of Jews. And we're not talking about a guard at a Cardassian death camp here. We're talking about a household servant. He probably had ''no choice at all'' in where he worked or who he worked for.
*** In addition, although the Nuremberg tribunal rejected following orders as a defense, they did accept the defense of being threatened with death for noncompliance, exonerating Nazi defendants who could substantiate this defense.
*** Further in addition, the Nuremberg tribunal did not put ''every'' concentration camp officer on trial. They weren't interested in putting filing clerks, cooks, or janitors in prison just because they happened to get reassigned to Auschwitz. A lot of people on this thread have cited Marritza and claimed that his clear guilt and repentance is what makes him different from Prin. And while Marritza's attitude surely had a profound effect on Kira, at the end of the day she still would have been bound by law to release him even if he hadn't been repentant. Because no matter how you slice it ''he wasn't a war criminal''. In order to be a war criminal you have to actually commit a war crime, and Marritza never did. And neither did Prin. Prin might have indirectly benefited from the occupation in some way, but that alone doesn't make him a legitimate target. At best, you could argue that he was collateral damage, but even that is arguable and depends on whether you think the "collateral damage" argument is morally justifiable.
* Marritza was trying to get Cardassia to acknowledge its war guilt and was willing to die in process. The other guy was murdering her friends, it's not surprising that he got a different response. If he'd confronted her without killing her friends she might have been more sympathetic.
** Adding to that, with Marritza, she had learned that not all Cardassians are guilty and deserved to shot. It required compassion, mercy and forgiveness. Marritza, driven by guilt, was trying to get the Cardassians to accept personal responsibility for what they did the the Bajorans. With this, it's the reverse. The Cardassian was the one who was injured by Kira and wanted her to accept personal responsibility for what she did to him while she was a resistance fighter. Unfortunately, he was to driven by madness to consider mercy and his vengeance on her old comrades hardly motivated her into accepting personal responsibility.
* The Bajoran Resistance was fighting a desperate war against a vastly superior enemy. An enemy that was enslaving, raping, and murdering Bajoran civilians as a matter of course. A horrific state of affairs that persisted for 50 years. The fact that they didn't ''intentionally'' target Cardassian civilians is a testament to their moral fortitude. It took a lot less than that to get the Allies to bomb civilian targets in WWII.
* To expand on the person above me, Kira has absolutely nothing to apologize for. She was born 30 years into, and lived the first 25 years of her life under, a brutal military occupation where the Cardassians were stealing Bajoran women as whores for the brass, herding them into concentration camps, and enslaving and slaughtering them by the millions. They pillaged Bajor's natural and cultural resources, banned the free practice of their religion, poisoned the earth, and in general committed war crime after war crime. The unfortunate truth is that at that point, anyone, Bajoran or Cardassian, civilian or not, who willingly aids the Cardassian Guard occupying forces ''makes themselves into'' a legitimate military target. And since the Bajoran Resistance has no way of knowing who's there willingly and who isn't, they don't have a choice but to accept the collateral damage.\\
\\
As I did when this was brought up on the ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' forums, I will also point out the use of ''past tense'' when Kira told that asshole he was a legitimate target. See Aamin Marritza from "Duet", and put two and two together. She doesn't consider Cardassian civilians legitimate targets anymore.

[[folder:New Bajoran Prisoners As the Plot Demands]]

* In season 2's premiere "The Homecoming", while discussing with Dax whether he should give Kira the runabout to go rescue Li Nalas, Sisko asks, "Suppose I give her the runabout and she ''does'' rescue Li Nalas. What do I say to the Cardassians?" Dax replies, "The question is, what do ''they'' say to ''us?'' They swore they released all their Bajoran prisoners." Now, of course, Kira rescues Li, and it turns out they have a dozen ''more'' Bajoran prisoners in that prison camp on Cardassia IV, which Dukat has released, probably to save face. (Because I do ''not'' believe him when he says the Central Command was unaware of the presence of those prisoners. They're not that stupid.) So presumably all the Bajoran prisoners detained by the Cardassian government were released then and there. Yet, later that season the Cardassian government agrees to release six Bajoran prisoners in exchange for Natima Lang, Hogue and Rekelen. ''What'' Bajoran prisoners?! And then in season 3's "Life Support", we learn explicitly that Cardassia ''is'' withholding certain [[InsistentTerminology detainees]] which they hadn't previously mentioned.
** Actually, this is totally in character with Cardassian society, military, and morality. The Central Command only admits to crimes when it's been caught. It's no surprise to me that years after the Occupation ended, the Cardassians could still be holding Bajorans prisoner. They're Cardassians, the Space Nazis of ''Star Trek.''
** Not to mention, this is playing off of real-world incidents. For example, the Soviet Union held on to German [=POWs=] for years after the war ended. There's also persistent (though entirely apocryphal) stories about American [=POWs=] still being secretly held by Vietnam or China after the Vietnam War.
** Original Poster: But that's exactly my point. Since the Cardassians have ''already'' promised that they released all their Bajoran prisoners, the Federation and Bajor should take a more hard-line stance when Cardassia attempts to negotiate with the release of (allegedly nonexistent) Bajoran prisoners. Their governments should say, ''"What'' Bajoran prisoners? Your government already agreed to release ''all'' of them, and we demand that you live up to that agreement."
*** I agree; this is a simple continuity problem.
** It could have been a one-time amnesty at the end of the occupation; the Bajorans captured later would be members of the Maquis or other terrorists that carried on the fight after the occupation was over. Though they may be criminals, Bajor would want their citizens back because their government knows full well how harshly Cardassians treat their prisoners.
** It could have been that the Cardassians were releasing all ''political'' prisoners in that agreement, and later prisoner releases were for crimes such as murder, theft, etc. that took place under the Occupation. Or prisoners taken since the end of the Occupation for things like border incursion, smuggling, or espionage.
** At least for the first year or two of the series, it seems that Cardassia had been looking at the Occupation from a perspective of 'we'll be back shortly.' They didn't expect the provisional government to last, and eventually, the Bajorans would send Starfleet away, leaving Bajor ripe for their return. Especially once the wormhole was revealed, they wanted to go back. So they would keep a handful of prisoners as bargaining chips - "Let us return these Bajoran prisoners who got 'lost in the system," and using that to return to take charge of the 'situation' again. Legal, no, but the Cardassian military tends to follow the belief of they're the ones making the laws, they can decide what's legal. Also, part of the reason that Kira has to mount a rescue of Li Nalas and the other prisoners is the fact that they shouldn't be there - if the Cardassians were confronted with the fact that Bajorans know about these remaining prisoners, they'd probably just kill them then and there, just to keep from being caught in a lie. "No prisoners here, the people you're talking about were executed."
** Perhaps they were simply misfiled? Perhaps if they'd had Maritza on the job, they wouldn't have miscounted their prisoners.

[[folder: Jerk refuses to help? No higher authorities.]]

* In the episode ''Babel'' the station has been completely shut down by an old Bajoran-engineered virus that not only causes aphasia but also seems to be lethal if untreated. Kira manages to find a doctor on Bajor who might have some knowledge of it but the moment she brings it up he cuts off communications. Her response is to kidnap him and force him to help them find a cure. It never once occurs to anyone to contact the Bajoran government, explain the situation (including the many infected Bajorans) and ask them to send him to help? For that matter, couldn't the Bajoran government threaten the doctor with prosecution over his negligence? Is force and deliberately infecting him really the first thing that goes through Kira's mind?
** Kidnapping is generally faster than dealing with red tape, even the emergency services.
** This is an early first season episode - Bajor is still recovering from the aftereffects of the recent Cardassian occupation and withdrawal and it's likely that the provisional government isn't sufficiently established to be able to help here. It's also consistent with Kira's personality that she would take the direct approach over appealing to whatever authority might exist.

[[folder: "Faith" in The Prophets]]
* In ''Covenant'', Odo laments the fact that he wants to share going to religious services with Kira, but that he's not a believer. But...The Prophets--or "Wormhole Aliens"--definitely '''do''' exist. They live outside of time, and can see both the past and future. They clearly have a special relationship with the Bajorans. These are indisputable facts. What "faith" do you need to believe in, or pray to, something for which there's unambiguous evidence?
** While they exist and have a special relationship with the Bajorans, he probably lacks belief in religious ceremony. To him, praying is pointless, because he'd be better off getting in the shuttle and going into the wormhole. As a result, he would find the experience itself meaningless.
** If God was discovered to be real do you think all Atheists in the world would suddenly convert? No of course not, because even then he would probably be classified by science as a new species of life rather than a deity to be worshiped. Its the same here, just because the Prophets exist doesn't make them Gods in the eyes of non-Bajorans no matter what their powers may be.
*** When one of Kira's ex resistance buddies is assassinated, she says "He died serving the Prophets, they'll take care of him." Sisko is deferential, but there's no concrete proof in the series that the Prophets have an afterlife.
*** The series tiptoes around what the Bajoran view of the afterlife is meant to be. Winn refers to Bareil's death as "having left us to walk with the Prophets" -- is this meant to be literal (Bajorans' spirits are meant to go to the Celestial Temple) or just a euphemism? If it's the former, are all the devout supposed to go, or is Bareil a special case because he was a vedek? Perhaps they're vaguely like Judaism, as a religion in which the afterlife is deemphasized.
*** This argument is supported by the fact that Starfleet regularly calls the Prophets 'Wormhole Aliens'. It's only those who've been stationed at [=DS9=] for a while that really use the Bajoran name, so it's certain that Starfleet holds the view that they're just aliens, not gods (especially considering all the AGodAmI aliens Starfleet has encountered over the years). So it's entirely plausible that Odo shares that view. Plus, remember his own species goes around claiming they're gods which is something Odo is opposed to, so it's unsurprising that he'd also reject claims to godhood by other species. And theres also the possibility that before sending the infant changelings out into the Galaxy, the Founders may have subliminally programmed them to reject other species' claims to god hood and that they were the only ones to have the right to that claim (or at least accept they are gods but that the Founders are the 'one true gods' a la the Abrahamic god declaring 'You shall have no other God before me.'), which would mean he's psychologically incapable of having faith in another religion.
*** I think maybe the word "faith" should have been replaced with "devotion". Having faith in a god technically just means believing they exist and can do all the things their followers say they can do. In common parlance, having faith in a religion and being a member of the religion are often treated as synonyms, since people who believe there are ultra-powerful entities out there judging their behavior generally want to get on those entities' good side. However, this is not always the case (see: maltheists or misotheists, who believe God exists, but think he's an asshole), and in such situations you need to be a little more careful with your wording.
*** "Faith" doesn't really mean "belief"; it means "trust". If someone has faith in me, that doesn't mean they simply believe I exist, but that they trust me. Similarly, the Bajorans trust the Prophets to take care of them.
** Remember this is a universe where the Greek Gods actually existed and Kirk met Apollo. Add in the Q, Organinans, and Metrons and it's easy to believe godlike beings exist, but you don't have believe they answer your prayers because most of them don't. Bajorans believe the Prophets answer their prayers and given their temporal nature, it's hard to answer if/when they decided to be "of Bajor". They certainly don't have a clue in the pilot, despite having been central to Bajoran culture for centuries.

! Cardassians

[[folder: The Cardassian Closet]]
* To a certain way of thinking, Garak is indeed the franchise's premier GLBTQ character (not this speaks particularly well of Star Trek's checkered history of dealing with queer issues). This is not to say anything certain about Garak's sexuality (so little is certain about Garak period!) but rather that the character resonates with a certain queer experience. In this it is a bit like K/S, but perhaps with a bit more textual basis -- Andrew Robinson has confessed to playing Garak as bisexual or omni-sexual and camping up his scenes with Bashir, but being asked to tone it down by uncomfortable producers. "Queering" Garak is a time-honored way some fans, gay or otherwise, enjoy this character. It's surprising how much vitriolic objection to it one encounters from some fans, though it seldom seems to raise above the level of "Garak can't be gay! Look, there he is kissing a girl! Something no non-straight person has ever been known to do..." But why would anyone point to his relationship with Ziyal as evidence against his queerness? Setting aside the obvious point that it leaves open the possibility of bisexuality, it plays so insincerely, like everyone involved is going through the motions (perhaps a symptom of Robinson's dislike for the plot line). How much screen time do they even have together during their purported relationship? It's a pretty pathetic foundation for "Garak is totally straight," even if that's how it was intended.
** If all you're asking is why some fans don't seem to like the idea of Garak being anything but straight, the simple answer is that there are still a lot of people who think there is something wrong with being gay. As for how people can point to Ziyal and say that's proof he's not gay, he seemed to get a lot further a lot faster with her than he did with Bashir or any other male character. And he wouldn't be kissing Ziyal to keep his orientation a secret because no one should care if he's gay in the 24th century, so he must be at least a little attracted to her. The insincerity could be explained as the two of them being the only Cardassians on the station and while he would prefer friendship, she's clearly interested in him and the idea of being wanted is too tempting for him to completely ignore.
*** I'd add that attitudes towards gays changed significantly from the 1990s to, say, 2010. Very, very drastically. In 1990's there were just a handful of out actors in Hollywood and now everyone's out of the closet and it's a complete non-issue. See Ellen Degeneres vs. Jim Parsons or Zachary Quinto.
*** This was definitely my sense: that Garak has some real affection for Ziyal, if something short of passion, but it's come about from circumstance as much as anything. One also wonders if this is (for Garak) an act of revenge against Dukat, too, and (for Ziyal) a latching on to a father figure to replace the one she lacked in childhood. All of this pathological potential makes the Garak/Ziyal relationship sound like it should be much more interesting than it is! All in all, his relationship with Bashir is far more emotionally resonant than his relationship with Ziyal.
*** It's not only that people think there's something wrong with being gay, but that they think, as a consequence, that their liking Garak as a character is incompatible with him being anything other than a vagina-loving straight, totally heterosexual guy who digs chicks. When both the actor http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/53485/ref%3Ded_art_135796_txt_1/026-8624746-9352459 and writing staff http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=38718&st=160&p=857040&#entry857040 have described the character as bisexual or non-straight, this is a pretty untenable position.
*** While it's homophobia for some viewers, that isn't necessarily the case for everyone; CampGay can be silly or girly, and StraightGay is the exception, not the norm. Viewing a character [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation in new light]] can be jarring, even if there's nothing inherently wrong with the premise, so if you previously viewed someone as manly and badass and someone insists they're CampGay, it's a bit like seeing Darth Vader reduced to a [[Film/AttackOfTheClones whiny teenager]]. It doesn't necessarily mean the viewer thinks whiny teenagers are abominations, just that they preferred to view the character a different way.
*** Point taken, and a blanket claim of homophobia is not useful. I would simply add that, though I certainly didn't think of Garak as gay when I was watching [=DS=]9 in my early teens, I did recognize that Garak's badassery coexisted interestingly with this sardonic, cultured, vaguely prissy persona of an eternal outsider. In retrospect, one might even call it Wildean. Is "queer Garak" really a case of AlternateCharacterInterpretation or just acknowledging what's pretty manifest in the text?
*** Garak's only on-screen romantic interest is Ziyal, so apart from WordOfGod and BehindTheScenes, it's not necessary to be homophobic to interpret Garek as straight. ''Series/{{Soap}}'' predates [=DS=]9 by quite a bit and dealt openly with homosexuality, both PlayedForLaughs and PlayedForDrama, with a side serving of NoBisexuals. Since [=DS=]9 was pretty forward about GrayAndGrayMorality, it would have been nice for them to come right out with an openly gay (or bi) character if that's what they wanted. I've been watching Garak differently since reading this page. He can easily be interpreted as CampGay, but I've also known heterosexuals who can only be described as "flamboyant." A baptist preacher once referred to a colleague (married with 3 children) as "quite a flamer;" he had all the cliche mannerisms of CampGay. Possibly, he's just hiding it (which is a shame). More likely, stereotypes just don't define character, race, ''or'' sexuality. The Ferengi mysogyny is coupled with BlueAndOrangeMorality when Rom and Quark seem to easily flip genders, despite both being patently heterosexual. So the facts, as presented on screen, are:
--> Garek is attracted to Ziyal.
--> Garek isn't openly attracted to anyone else.
--> Garek acts CampGay.
--> Garek is from a non-human culture and his mannerisms shouldn't be interpreted the way we interpret human mannerisms (though Trek in general fails to hold this up)
*** In terms of {{Canon}}, it's inconclusive. I have no problem with Garek being gay or bi or straight, but it is hard to say he is definitively gay because of Ziyal, regardless how he portrayed the character. (What use would ''Garak'' of all people uphold 20th-century earth status quo by ''pretending'' to be heterosexual?)
** I have to admit, all this talk about Ziyal confuses me. When I was watching, the relationship seemed pretty explicitly to be a)she's interested in him (Kira calls it a "crush) b) he likes spending time with the only other Cardassian around, but c) he has no romantic or sexual interest in her, and in fact actively discourages her. Or does no one else remember this exchange:
--> Ziyal: You’re intelligent, and cultured… and kind…
--> Garak: My dear, you’re young, so I realize that you’re a poor judge of character—
--> Ziyal: Why do you always make fun of my feelings for you?
--> Garak: Perhaps because I find them a bit… misguided?
--> Ziyal: Well, if that’s what you think, why do you spend so much time with me?
--> Garak: Because I’m exiled, and alone, and a long way from home, and when I’m with you, it doesn’t feel so bad.
I suppose that last line ''could'' be taken as something romantic, but it kinda clashes with what he just said, doesn't it. Coupled with his expression when he embraces him at the end of the two-parter, which is not exactly one of unmitigated joy...
*** I took his gentle rebuff in that scene as his recognition that he's much older than her and thinks she has a temporary girlish crush; that he's in constant danger of being killed by various enemies, which threat carries over to anyone he openly cares about; and that getting too close to him could get her in serious trouble with her father and other Cardassians. In other words, he was trying to do the best thing for her, regardless of his own feelings.
** There's also the exchange in "Shattered Mirror" between alt-Garak and alt-Worf where Garak appears to solicit Worf and Worf thunders "You are not my type!" This tells us nothing of the sexual preferences of real-Garak, but it does tell us that the writers were perfectly aware of the queer implications around Garak, and were prepared to work in jokes about it.
** On re-watching the series, Garak's CampGay persona in his first couple encounters with Bashir strikes me as a bit of EarlyInstallmentWeirdness, because it doesn't seem nearly as pronounced later on.
*** One possibility - the early encounters were not long after he'd activated his implant, and the resulting constant endorphin rush affected his personality (a perpetual literal drug high). As he got used to it, his personality returned to normal.
** This discussion so far has focused on Garak's undefined sexuality, but also managed to ignore many other aspect's of Garak's persona that easily relate. Garak is a liar, who admits that he enjoys lying for the simple fact it can be more interesting than the truth. Hell, even when he does tell the truth, he has to turn it into a half-truth because the actual truth bores him. His own past is a mystery beyond the fact his father is Enabran Tain, the fact he was a high-ranking member of the Obsidian Order, the fact he was responsible for the death of Dukat's father, and the fact he did something bad enough to get kicked out of the Order AND exiled from his home world. Beyond those few facts, plus perhaps a few from Andrew Robinson's novel(and while I'm aware most novels aren't canon, this one was written by the actor and could be treated as canon unless the copyright holders directly say otherwise), all we see are what Garak wants us to see. He latched onto Bashir not out of a need for a friend or romantic interest but because he needed Bashir to help stop a Bajoran terrorist. After that he... well, it seems as if Garak lives for the moment, reinventing himself with a multiple choice past as he sees fit and adapts to a situation as he sees fit. He may very well suffer from a traumatic past that caused him to snap and he lives the lies to avoid the truth. His supposed sexuality may very well change as easily as his past does, at least in his mind.
** The problem I can see a lot of people having with Garak being gay or bisexual is that there is simply no hard evidence for it. The two biggest arguments I have seen are that he has a rather campy demeanor (which as mentioned above could easily be the mannerisms of a proven liar and seems to vanish as time goes on), and the fact that he doesn't seem all that interested in sex - which in the end means absolutely nothing and runs the risk of falling into some awfully stereotypical views on how ''real men'' act. As for his relationship with other men, there are really only two of any worth to the discussion: Tain (who eventually turns out to be his dad and as such is now irrelevant), and Bashir, who could either be a love interest or a perfectly ordinary close friend, and as Garak has never remotely tried to come on to Bashir, the evidence greatly supports the latter. Incidentally, whilst the OP tries to dismiss the ''well we have seen him kissing girls!'' defense as woolly, it really is the cherry on top of the heterosexuality cake like it or not.
*** As noted, his relationship with Ziyal is easily read as a one sided attraction on her part. That's hardly a cherry on anything.
** For some reason, I imagine him as [[BiTheWay bi]], not gay. I also don't [[{{Shipping}} ship]] him with Bashir. I imagine Garak as bi and Bashir as straight, for some reason.
*** In the interview referenced above, Robinson says that he, "started out playing Garak as someone who doesn't have a defined sexuality. He's not gay, he's not straight, it’s a non-issue for him. Basically his sexuality is inclusive."

[[folder: Will the real Darhe'el please stand up?]]
* This is not to knock "Duet", which is one of the best episodes of the series and in all of ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in my opinion. But one wonders exactly how Marritza expected his plan to work. If Darhe'el ''had'' been alive, all the Cardassians would have to do to discredit Marritza is simply produce him. And if he were dead, just tell everyone that-- hell, half of Cardassia ''viewed his body!'' So whether Darhe'el were alive or dead, there was no way Marritza would be able to convince people that he was him. This was not a very well-thought-out plan on his part.
** He probably wasn't thinking that far into it, having lived with years of pent-up PTSD, guilt, and self-hatred driving him into [[SuicideByCop his plan]]. Most likely he thought that with his CardCarryingVillain persona, the Bajorans wouldn't bother to conduct a thorough investigation. Although if he ''had'' survived, it's probable that he would have been able to publicly explain his actions, which may still have gone some way to achieving his goal anyhow.
*** This was something [SF Debris] pointed out in his review. Marritza expected Cardassian-style justice - an almost immediate and completely one-sided trial that found him guilty and executed him. He also was clearly not in his right mind.
** He might not have expected the crew of [=DS=]9 (or wherever he ended up captured at) to actually contact the Cardassians and check. This would be a fair assumption assuming the station were run solely by Bajorans, perhaps he didn't know about the Federation involvement (which happened only a few months before he arrived.)
*** Or having checked, he might expect them to believe that the Cardassians had lied. After all, it's not like the Cardassians were above lying to save face on, well, ''just about anything''. If it hadn't been for them finding the records which clearly showed that Gul Darheel had been on Cardassia when the accident happened, therefore couldn't have Kalinora syndrome, therefore the man in the cell couldn't be Darheel then they might well have assumed that the Cardassians were trying to create an alibi.
*** In fact, after receiving that information from Dukat, [=DS=]9's crew ''did'' assume that it was forged-- at least, ''Kira'' certainly did. It was the dermal regenerative Marritza was taking that tipped Bashir off.

[[folder:Duh, the Cardassians just want the station]]

* And speaking of "Life Support", why are Sisko and Kai Winn so mystified when Legate Turrel insists on an agreement in principle that anything of Cardassian origin left behind in the Bajoran system belongs to Cardassia? [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Duh, the Cardassians just want the station!]] And the ''de facto'' control of the wormhole that comes with it!
** And not just the station either. After an Occupation lasting 60 years, there was plenty of Cardassian technology and infrastructure left behind on Bajor. With Bajor struggling with famines and other issues, all it would take would be for Cardassia to walk off with any agricultural technology it managed to somehow lay claim to and Bajor would be struggling even more than before. I got the impression there was an entire can of worms waiting to be opened there that the Kai almost walked into.
** They were probably mystified trying to figure out what other Cardassian equipment was left behind, other than the station and the previously mentioned infrastructure. They probably suspected something less benign was in the mix when Turrel made that demand i.e. a secret research facility or something similar. Also, look at the farther-reaching consequences of the Cardassians taking back the station: they would likely move the station back to Cardassian space, leaving Starfleet with nothing to guard the wormhole. To replace the station, they would need several ships (probably at least 3-5 Galaxy, Nebula, or similarly powerful ships that can't be spared for guard duty at the ass-end of Federation space) until a replacement station can be brought in. Space stations can't exactly be churned out by an industrial-strength replicator, so it would take time to restore a permanent presence at the wormhole and in Bajoran space, assuming that Winn doesn't take the opportunity to start demanding that Starfleet build a station for them, free of charge. While that debate is going on, the Cardassians can start causing trouble, further dividing the Federation and Bajor, until finally one will snap and leave, allowing the Cardassians to come back in and reclaim the planet (remember: the Federation couldn't be arsed to care about the ''' ''60 year Occupation'' ''' the Cardassians did the first time. If a lifetime of rape and plunder can't motivate one of the strongest militaries in the Quadrant to action, why should round 2 be any different, right?
** The Bajoran's counter to all of this was to say that Terok Nor ([=DS9=]) belonged to them, because it was built by the Bajorans. It actually was, the Cardassians used Bajoran slave labor to build it. Although this became moot because the Federation wasn't willing to give the station up.

[[folder: A Thoroughly Polite Dustup]]
* In ''Apocalypse Rising'', Sisko enlists Dukat's help in infiltrating a Klingon facility. En route, their bird-of-prey's false flag is challenged challenged by a Klingon warship, and when the communications equipment that would fool the Klingon patrol into believing that they were on legitimate business in Klingon space fails, Dukat simply destroys the other ship rather than risk discovery. The Starfleet personnel are shocked by Dukat's actions, and an obviously disgusted Sisko asks if it was really necessary. Why exactly is anyone surprised by this when the Cardassian Union--''and'' the Federation, I might add--are in a state of open war with the Klingon Empire? Not only that, but Sisko and company are on a critical mission with much of the Alpha Quadrant at stake; they absolutely can't risk being captured. Unless I'm missing something, destroying that warship is the tactically correct move under the circumstances, it increased the likelihood of success, and was well within the rules of war.
** You're misremembering that scene a bit. When the communication filter failed Klingon!O'Brien went over to examine it and Klingon!Odo suggested that Worf speak to them. But before they could even try Dukat fired his weapons and destroyed the other ship. It's a matter of perspective. The Federation wants an amicable peace, not to wipe out the Klingons, so they would've preferred to let Worf try and bluff the other ship off. If they were forced to fight anyway, oh well, at least they tried. (And war or no war, those ''particular'' Klingons hadn't actually done anything wrong. They were just doing their jobs patrolling Klingon space.) On the other hand, Dukat is ''angry'' at the Klingons for what they did to the Cardassian people and every one of them he kills is a sweet little slice of vengeance. He's not stupid, he'll use deception when he can, but if the easier solution is to just kill a Klingon, he'll kill a Klingon. You'll notice that when Sisko asks Dukat "Was that really necessary?!" and Dukat responds that "It was either that or trust in Mr. Worf's ability to lie! And frankly I have more faith in my weapons!"...Sisko noticeably fails to offer a counter-argument.
*** The irony being that Worf had in fact pulled off such a stunt already while serving on board the Enterprise (TNG: "The Emissary").

[[folder: Letting the Shapeshifter Play Policeman]]
* Okay, so Odo is discovered by Bajoran scientists. They keep him in a lab for a while, but after they discover that he's sentient and he expresses the wish to leave the lab, being reasonably nice folks who believe in the rights of sentient beings, they let him. After that we're not entirely sure what he gets up to for a while except that he once mentions that the Cardassians, jerks that they are, sometimes make him change shape as a party trick. At some point he finds himself on Terok Nor, where Gul Dukat recruits him to act as a security officer and go-between since he's willing to serve Cardassian interests as long as they're not ''too'' evil, but he's still trusted by the Bajoran slaves (more than the Cardassian security officers anyway). Then the Cardassians abandon the occupation and, as far as we can tell, give him a hearty handshake and a fond farewell. ''WHAT?'' Seriously? ''Nobody'' in the Cardassian government, nobody in the military or the freaking ''[[StateSec Obsidian Order]]'' thought that it might be a good idea to hang on to the shapeshifter? Stick him back in a lab, study him, try to figure out a way to replicate or at least defend against his powers? It never occurred to ''anybody'' that it might be a spectacularly bad idea to leave a perfect spy free to do as he pleased? It's not like the freaking [[PuttingOnTheReich Space Nazis]] were concerned with his rights as a sentient being.
** Still, Cardassians didn’t had enough power when they were leaving to just kidnap Odo, who was in general accepted as a member of Bajoran society. Yes, they are kind of Space Nazis, but they are Space Nazis after Normandy.
** Remember also that while Odo may not be as good a shapeshifter as other Changelings, he's still very effective. Are the Cardassians going to grab every sample jar, barstool at Quark's, and dress is Garak's shop because it might be Odo? If he doesn't want to be found, he's not going to be found.

[[folder: "You have failed your mission, but I'm going to make you the station security Chief anyway"]]
* In the episode ''Necessary Evil'', it's explained that Odo was brought on the station to solve one specific murder because Dukat felt he and his men were not up to the task of solving a Bajoran crime. But Odo failed in this task, as the murder was never solved at the time. So why did Dukat keep Odo on as station security chief after this? There was no more need for him, and he didn't even accomplish his original objective. Cardassians don't seem like the type to tolerate failure, much less promote people after it.
** The reason he was brought into that job still stands; he's neither Bajoran nor Cardassian, therefore Bajorans are more likely to talk to him, and Cardassians are more likely to trust that he is being objective.

[[folder: What's With That Cardassian in the Hallucination?]]
* So in the episode "Far Beyond the Stars", Sisko is hallucinating that he's in America in TheSixties and is a writer, writing about [=DS9=], but sometimes, he briefly starts seeing the real world in pieces (like seeing a man he's hallucinating Worf as turn into the real Worf). During the scene where thugs were beating somebody up, one of them briefly turned into a Cardassian man. Why was there a Cardassian on the station and why was he beating someone up? Was it Garak?
** It was Dukat. The cops were played by Marc Alaimo and Jeffrey Combs (Dukat and Weyoun) and they briefly turned into their [=DS9=] counterparts during that beating.

[[folder: Damar, Women and Children]]
* The episode ''Tacking Into The Wind'' where Damar delivers the line ''what kind of state tolerates the murder of innocent women and children? What kind of people give those orders?'' which of course leads to some essential character development for him when Kira reminds him of the war crimes perpetrated by the Cardassians toward the Bajorans. One small problem though: the Jem'Hadar and the Founders have no women and children and thus wouldn't have the same cultural blocks that we do. And on that note, when have we ever seen the ''and women and children'' double standard from the 24th century Federation or the Cardassian Union? The former loves all life and considers gonads of no importance, and the latter is arguably more matriarchal than patriarchal as whilst we never see any discrimination towards women in the military, male scientists are rare and are both patronised and considered inferior as we see in the episode ''Destiny.''

! Changelings

[[folder:Whacking the Dominion Hive]]
* In the ''Deep Space Nine'' episode "The Jem'Hadar", a Jem'Hadar representative of the Dominion comes through the wormhole and states, in essence, that the Gamma Quadrant (or at least the part of the quadrant near the wormhole) is within Dominion space, and that ''any'' excursion through the wormhole would be considered an incursion into their territory and treated as such. The general response on the part of the Bajorans and Federation is basically, "Oh, yeah? Try and stop us from exploring!" Why the sudden disrespect for the requests of a sovereign nation? If the wormhole instead led to, say, an unexplored mass of space within Romulan borders and the Romulans sent a representative that said, "Quit sending ships into our space!" would the Federation thumb their nose at this, or would they back off and resolve the matter more diplomatically? But no, the Federation and other Alpha Quadrant races keep sending their (heavily armed, at least in the case of the ''Defiant'') ships through, completely disregarding the wishes of the Dominion. No wonder the Dominion finally just decided to invade the Alpha Quadrant itself.
** Because it wasn't actually their territory? If I recall correctly, they don't even really say that it is exactly. It's more that they consider the entire Gamma Quadrant to be their "sphere of influence", and so oppose any other nations entering it. But considering that this is literally a quarter of the entire galaxy, this is rather an extreme position.
** If I recall correctly, the area around the Gamma Quadrant terminus of the wormhole wasn't Dominion territory for the first two years of ''Deep Space Nine''. Certainly most of the people we met from the Gamma Quadrant in those two seasons seemed to treat the Dominion as an abstractly distant power rather than as an aggressive occupier. It seems more like the Dominion unilaterally annexed that territory around the end of season 2, then barged through the wormhole and told the Alpha Quadrant to GTFO. Since this was ''Kira'' they told this too, she naturally wasn't going to take this lying down. It should also be noted that the Dominion asserted their authority in their new "territory" by [[MoralEventHorizon hunting down and destroying every single Alpha Quadrant ship and colony they could get their hands on]].
** The wormhole terminus was never really part of Dominion territory. I believe the writers used a metaphor something like this: Imagine if the Chinese claimed complete dominion over the East China Sea and added that ANY non-Chinese ships there would be destroyed. Yes, people wouldn't start sailing on the Chinese coast, but they wouldn't really pay any attention to this warning on the coast of Japan or even some distance away from it. One single navy couldn't possibly patrol a region so vast, and the Federation knows that the Dominion is only a distant threat in the section of the Gamma Quadrant they're near, so they keep exploring and don't really get caught.
*** Ignoring for the moment the weirdness about territorial claims in space and the inconsistency about what the Dominion even is (a mafia-like organization that has a private army for when other methods fail? An empire with clearly defined borders?), it is pretty clear that the wormhole is not in Dominion territory. We know this because "Broken Link" has this exchange: "DAX: We've just cleared the wormhole. SISKO: Begin transmitting a request for assistance, then set a course for the Dominion." The dialogue in "The Jem'Hadar" is probably just posturing. After all, it is presumably within their power to collapse the wormhole themselves if they really wanted to keep the Alpha Quadrant powers out.
** The Federation is a great power in its own right, and even peaceful great powers don't like being bullied. Even weak governments don't like that. The Dominion's demands were a slap in the face of Federation sovereignty.
** Both the phrase "Whacking the Dominion Hive" and this complaint, by the way, come straight from Phil Farrand's ''The Nitpicker's Guide for Deep Space Nine Trekkers'', a book full of Headscratchers and other nitpicks. 'Tis a good read.
** Having encountered the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassian, the Borg, and who knows how many other species that had a tendency towards aggressive expansion, the Federation has to understand that when confronted by a society inclined towards violent conquest, submission is a form of suicide. The only way to avoid being run rough-shod over is to establish immediately that the Federation isn't going to kowtow to the Dominion and will instead expect to be treated with respect or, at the very least, a lack of aggression.
*** If anything the mistake the Federation made was treating the Dominion as if it were a power like the Cardassians or the Klingons. They all talked the talk, they'd rattle their sabres (or their bat'leths) maybe have a small border clash, then they'd get down to business of talking things out diplomatically with the occasional bit of posturing going on for face-saving's sake. Even the Klingons, for all their warrior zerg-rush talk have done that. Trouble is the Dominion are more like the Borg in that they are completely irrational in their worldview and genuinely do see it all as "Us vs Them absolutism". To be fair, the Dominion did initially paint themselves as a reasonable power with their use of the Vorta so the Federation's mistake was an understandable one, and even if they had withdrawn back through the wormhole the Dominion would still have come for them eventually.
** On the flipside, doesn't the presence of a clear military threat in the Gamma Quadrant mean that the Federation ought to have taken a much more active approach? As in: build a starbase at the far end of the wormhole, move an armada in to guard it, don't send out ships without escorts, etc.? If this would seem like an aggressive, militaristic, expansionistic move... well, that's what they were accused of doing anyway, so why not do it correctly?
*** Related to the above -- in "Destiny," I'm always a bit amused by the premise. Sure, establishing a permanent communications link to the Gamma Quadrant is a good idea, but you know what else would be good? A lookout. As in, post somebody over there ready to run over and inform [=DS9=] of a threat at a moment's notice. Further, they should be ready to seal the wormhole on short order starting in Season 3, rather than only putting it together on the fly two or more years later.
*** One not-so-minor hitch is that the Bajorans were never fully on board with any solution that would have sealed them off from their religion's "gods." Had the Federation invoked that "nuclear option" of sorts, it would have been a major diplomatic incident even in light of the Dominion threat.
*** To the above: Let's not forget that in "The Search, Part II," Sisko and co. are unequivocally willing to seal the wormhole when there's no other options left (and presumably seek forgiveness from the Bajorans after the fact). There's a rather silly plot point in "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light" that only now, when dealing with a ticking clock, does Sisko instruct his crew to come up with a way of sealing the wormhole without harming the Prophets (which the Dominion swiftly subverts). There should have been a standing plan for this since early in Season 3, if not earlier.

[[folder: Spotting Changelings: Not So Hard?]]
So I just rewatched the episode where Odo gets turned human and something occurred to me. Right after the Changelings spit Odo back out Bashir whips out an ordinary medical tricorder and says he detects various and sundry organs (heart, liver, lungs, or some such) and Bashir says "Gosh! He must be human now!" So wait a minute. If it's that easy to tell humans and changelings apart, why does the Federation have such trouble with it?
* It's probably more "in contrast to how Odo usually scans" than changelings more broadly. As you say, the Founders ''must'' have a means of fooling scans most of the time.
* Good point, especially given Odo's earlier claim "If you scan me when I'm a rock, you'll detect a rock." But yes, Odo isn't as good a changeling as the others and in any case is usually not interested in fooling scanners, so maybe he normally doesn't bother with the organs. (So his earlier statement should really be "If you scan me when I'm a rock, you'll detect a rock, assuming I decided to fully mimic the rock from the inside out. Otherwise sometimes not.")
** This is directly addressed in-episode. Bashir notes at one point that when he normally scans Odo, he reads an object of uniform density rather than the fluctuations he's currently detecting due to Odo's illness. Thus, Odo scans like a large mass of jello that can move, rather than having distinct parts like solids. While Changelings probably can mimic humanoids down to internal organs, the more disturbing question is how do they research what all those organs are like so they can mimic them - vivisection?
*** Possibly medical scans, but considering that most Changelings are murderous dicks then yes, probably vivisection. Hell, they may scoop out someone's guts and stuff them in their own bodies to get a "feel" for them to replicate them better.
* Odo does not at any point try to disguise the fact that he is a changeling when Bashir scans him. He points out at many times during the series that he COULD ("If you scan me when I'm a rock, you'll detect a rock."), meaning he has the ability to hide from scans, and obviously the other Changelings do too. But everyone already knows Odo is a changeling, so what reason would he possibly have to disguise himself from Bashir's scans? Starfleet Security is actually VERY concerned about Odo FOR THIS REASON, and they point it out.
* While we're at it, why not use telepaths to detect Changelings? Since Betazoids don't detect Odo's emotions, a sufficiently talented one should have little trouble finding a faux example of a race they can normally detect.
** Telepaths have a habit of being underutilized in ''every'' franchise that they are in for the reason being that their powers are nearly always game breaking; that is why they made Deanna Troi half-human just to give her an excuse as to why she isn't just stopping every threat to the ship with a wave of her hand. A full Betazoid guarding every major ship and facility would basically castrate the sole thing that makes the main villain a threat with the exception of their army. FridgeBrilliance of course in that the Dominion attacked and conquered their home world...
*** I can imagine that being that hypothetical Betazoid on duty would be a seriously dangerous job, since the Founders would have no qualms about killing them and calling it a day.
*** Or kill the telepath and then take their place, can you imagine the damage a shapeshifter could do if they impersonated the telepath in charge of finding shapeshifters?
*** You'd need another telepath to keep tab on the first one! And yet another to monitor that one! And...

[[folder: Attack of the 50-Foot Odo]]
* So Odo's a changeling, right? We've seen him get pretty small, and change his mass so, for example, when he's a bag he's not as heavy as his humanoid form. This means he can change his mass at will (which is a Headscratcher in and of itself). We've also seen Changelings flying through space on their own without any problems (like Laas did in "Chimera", as a creature the size of a runabout). Why doesn't Odo ever use this to his advantage? Why does Odo take runabouts when he could just go into space by himself? Or, for that matter, why couldn't he become the size of the station and just pick up enemy ships and hurl them into the sun or something (other than it would be totally ridiculous)? They wouldn't even have needed to do effects shots: just shoot Rene Auberjonois handling the actual ship models used for filming! True, it would be pretty silly, but I think there are other possibilities to use a giant Odo (humanoid or not) or at least a space worthy Odo that would've been useful and cool to see without treading into B-movie territory. But I think the only time we ever see him get larger than his humanoid form is when he is protecting "Kira" from a rockfall in "Heart of Stone", at least that I can remember.
** I agree in the abstract that Odo does not use his powers usefully very often. On those odd occasions when he forms tendrils to grab attackers, I wonder why he doesn't do it more. But do not forget that, in the grand scheme, he is a novice changeling. He was amazed to find that Laas could fly through space as this was a power well beyond his, so one can't expect him to just be able to do it himself. This is an important part of his characterization -- remember that Odo is a misfit, not a demigod. Laas had centuries of practice that Odo lacked, and the Changelings in the Great Link had significantly more again.
** Odo does become significantly larger than his humanoid form in "The Alternate," but does not do so consciously, again an indication that he has vast powers that he has not begun to master.
** Further, note that the Changelings tend towards using their powers in subtle ways for purposes of infiltration and subterfuge, rather than spectacular shows of force. What would be gained by becoming giant, even if they could do it? Changelings are not invulnerable, and it would just provide a larger target.
** From a real life perspective it could easily have been because all the shape shifting could be expensive and difficult to do.
** I just want to know what happens to his comm badge when he turns into, say, a drinking glass (as we see one episode.)
** He met Laas before "Treachery, Faith and the Great River", so I'd personally like to know why Odo was concerned about freezing to death or asphyxiating in the latter episode. He knows for a fact that [[BatmanCanBreatheInSpace Changelings Can Breathe in Space]]!
*** Laas can also turn into fire, so that may be how he keeps warm in his space-dwelling form. And maybe he just held his breath. If he can travel faster than light then anything is possible!
*** Um, "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" was eight episodes ''earlier'' than "Chimera."
** The answer is obvious. ''Because he doesn't know how.'' For a Changeling, shapeshifting isn't as easy as just ''wanting'' to be something else and *poof* you're something else. There's more to it than that. It takes serious skill, which Odo doesn't yet have. Before he met Laas he didn't even realize it was possible for him to become fire, or fog, or a space-whale.

[[folder: Why was Odo turned Human and not Bajoran?]]
* Why did the Founders in the Link make Odo anatomically human (as Bashir's analysis confirms) and not Bajoran? He has far greater ties to the Bajorans than the Federation; he was raised by a Bajoran scientist, he's part of a Bajoran security force, and the whole basis of the female changeling's accusations about his divided loyalties are based on his love of Kira, who is Bajoran. And the Founders don't seem to be sensitive to the fact that humans are a major force in the Federation; they don't make too many distinctions among species of solids anyway. But if they were going to choose a specific species to turn Odo into, the logical choice would've been Bajoran.
** It is a curious decision, which reeks of the ''Franchise/StarTrek'''s humanocentric sense that everyone who isn't human should strive to be... or become one involuntarily! But justifications as possible. For the Founders, it's an us and them mentality, as you note: solids are solids. So perhaps their choice was arbitrary. Perhaps they had examined more humans and knew their anatomy better. The "Odo as human" arc turned out to be a bit of a DorkAge, didn't it?
** Could have been another layer of the punishment. By turning Odo human, he is further isolated from the culture that he grew up in and is thus made even more alone.
*** I'm not sure that really works as an explanation, because 1: Odo was only marginally connected with Bajoran society to begin with, and 2: he doesn't outwardly look like a human even during his exile. He just looks like Odo (and, as emphasized in "Apocalypse Rising," chooses to continue to look that way). The arrangement of his internal anatomy would seem to make little difference.
*** [[FridgeBrilliance It would add another layer of separation between Odo and Kira for him to be human.]] There are no secrets in the Great Link, so undoubtedly his entire race knows how Odo feels about Kira. By making him human instead of Bajoran, that adds a definite biological barrier, if nothing else in Odo's mind.
** Sisko and Bashir (both human) were the ones accompanying Odo at the time. The Founders may have used them as the base template for Odo's new solid form.
** The simpler and more likely explanation: When Bashir says that Odo has been "turned human", he doesn't mean Odo has literally been turned into someone of Terran extraction. He's using "turned human" as shorthand for "a biological being with a calcium-based endoskeleton and internal organs including a heart and lungs". Odo might not be any actual race in particular, he's just "a biological" now, and Bashir says he's human because "he's a living being as we are familiar with the concept!" doesn't carry the same sort of WhamLine punch.
*** Is not "humanoid" generally that shorthand term? I can't think of an example of "human" explicitly being used to describe a being who was not human, as in Terran.
*** "Humanoid" means having the appearance of a human or being of the shape of a human. In other words, Odo was, usually, a humanoid as a changeling. As for why they said "human", it easily and immediately understandable to the viewer what has happened. Moreover, it is unlikely that Odo was any given race, so much as "no longer a changeling", going into detailed specifics or, worse, no elaborating on phrasing that required it, wouldn't have made a lot of sense right there, much easier to just say, "human", since a human is talking (and it did immediately get the point across of what had happened).
*** Bashir tells Odo: "Physiologically, you're completely human" in the Infirmary at the end of "Broken Link." The clarification "physiologically" leave little space to argue that he is anything other than literally human, as opposed to simply "humanoid" (which might be implied by Bashir's earlier statement "I'm reading a heart, lungs, and a digestive system. It's as if he were human," made on only cursory evidence).
** The Changelings were busily inserting themselves into every level of the Federation that they could at that point, which would for the most part mean replacing humans. They were probably more familiar with human biology than any other "solid" race... turning Odo into a biological humanoid probably wasn't easy in the first place so they'd go with the race they were most familiar with.

[[folder: Confessions of a Linking Addict]]
* In "Behind the Lines" and "Favor the Bold," the Female Changeling weakens Odo's resolve through linking, the act of two or more Changelings melding together. Afterwards, he's completely infatuated, spending ''days'' linking with her while neglecting other duties. In effect, he's behaving like the Changeling equivalent of a sex addict. Why did linking with the Female Changeling have this effect on Odo? He links with her in other episodes ("The Search"; "What You Leave Behind") and briefly enters the Great Link ("Broken Link") without any ill effects. Furthermore, he and Laas link in private in "Chimera," but neither man was overwhelmed by the experience. Despite being emotionally vulnerable when the Female Changeling came knocking, Odo isn't shown to have an addictive personality, so what explains this response to linking?
** I thought it was fairly clear that it wasn't the linking itself, and there's no real "addiction" going on. It was the emotional connection with the Changeling that was weakening his resolve. His continuing desire to rejoin his people was growing stronger and wearing him down. And now that the Female Changeling, because of the mines, is also separated from her people, Odo feels a need to comfort her, and form a small Changeling community with her, as well as learn from her. She's become more vulnerable and more approachable to him, and that makes him feel all the more that he belongs with her and with Changelings in general. And that ends up seeming more important to him. That and the entire time she is feeding him propaganda on how much more important Changelings are than Solid issues, and it's starting to get through. The other times he wasn't as vulnerable, wasn't as desperate for Changeling contact, and Laas wasn't nearly as charming or convincing.
** I was always curious about linking for another reason. In "A Simple Investigation," Odo explicitly compares it to humanoid sex. This isn't necessarily to characterize the Great Link as a gigantic, non-stop orgy, but to describe the intimacy of the experience... this plays into the war arc as described above. Is it then possible to understand "Chimera" as an episode about a love affair between Odo and Laas?
*** Sure it is, in the same presumably non-sexual way that Changelings are always seeking intimacy with each other. That is, in a way that doesn't seem to be directly related to reproduction, and certainly not intended to cause "pairing off", except when circumstances force it as in the wartime situation above. This would be distinct, however, from Odo's romantic relations with solids, where he seems to have ingrained in himself a heterosexual male orientation (perhaps he emulated Dr. Mora more than he realized), consistently showing attraction, love, and even lust only for female humanoids, and interest in the humanoid reproductive act. His affair with the female Changeling, however, seems to combine aspects of both, since she has consistently appeared (and appealed) to him as a female humanoid and has engaged in solid-style intercourse with him as well as linking.
** This is the hallmark of how [=DS9=] is DarkerAndEdgier than [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Star Trek, The Next Generation]]. Odo was not [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS3E18Allegiance a duplicate]]; he was not [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS3E26S4E1TheBestOfBothWorlds borg]], [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E3Brothers his software is not being manipulated]]; he has not [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E19TheNthDegree been made super-intelligent by an alien]]; he was not [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E24TheMindsEye brainwashed by Romulans]], or by [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS5E6TheGame a game]], and he hasn't [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS6E3ManOfThePeople had someone else's negative emotions dumped on him]]. He doesn't even have any mundane RealLife version of any of those, such as an addiction. He is himself, he is Odo, and he chose to betray his friends.
*** Yes, but it still rankles how "Odo and Kira talk in a closet, unseen" serves as a reset button.
*** According to the writers, it bugged them too, but they were having difficulty resolving the situation otherwise. Presumably they could either drag it on for episodes (or seasons) of Kira resenting and sniping at Odo and Odo futilely trying to prove himself to her, or do the closet reset, and they chose the reset. And while it's the easy way out, that doesn't necessarily make it the wrong one... watching two characters hate on each other every episode because of a mistake one of them made might have been accurate characterization but probably not fun to watch.
*** The difficulties of writing episodic television are very real, but even allowing for that, this is awfully weak writing. The problem is not the fact that it happens quickly, or even that it restores some version of the status quo. It's that it happens off-screen, which means it can't contribute to the character arcs of either Kira or Odo. If we can't understand the terms of their reconciliation, then that nullifies the drama of their divide to begin with. And it squanders the opportunity to address another dramatic problem of Season 6: if working through this difficulty moves their friendship to a different place, then their becoming lovers later also seem less sudden and shoehorned (as it does from Kira's side).
*** To be fair, Odo didn't betray his friends so much as neglect his duties, which is still pretty bad, especially given the stakes, but we don't know what linking really feels like, so we can't judge him for getting addicted to harshly. And Kira forgiving Odo so quickly, if given a little more attention, could have been an great oppurtunity to show her CharacterDevelopment: Odo comes to her quarters carrying flowers and "wearing" a tuxedo, she swats the flowers away and tells him that there's no excuse for what he did and people they both cared about could have died or worse because he got addicted to something just like the thugs he busts, he says she's right, but that regardless of if she forgives him, he's truly sorry, and she looks like she's about to go off on him again, but then smiles and says she believes him.

[[folder:If You Prick a Changeling, Does He Not Bleed?]]
* Throughout the Dominion War people show they aren't changelings by bleeding. This test was first suggested and implemented by Martok, who they later learned was replaced by a changeling at the time. Heck, Sisko's father, a chef, figured out how to fool that test as soon as he heard about it.
** Your point? By the very evidence you supply you seem to get the writers' point right across - that the test was a BatmanGambit by the Founders to sow paranoia amongst the Federation and Klingons, while letting agents who "passed" the test go about their business without suspicion. The very episode in which, as you say, Sisko's father points out the fallacies in the test, was meant to indicate this very plot although it wasn't until much later that they actually learned that, yes, indeed, the one who suggested the test was a changeling themselves.
*** More evidence that it's a BatmanGambit? The Martok changeling isn't the first one to come up with the idea of blood tests -- in the episode "The Adversary", Odo notices Sisko can't be a changeling because he's bleeding. But why is Sisko bleeding? Because a changeling hurt him, knowing he'd meet up with Odo soon, and Odo, being a sharp investigator, would notice and develop the blood testing strategy. So, by the time the Martok changeling strolls onto the station, pulls out a knife, and slices his palm open, they all accept it without questioning how or why Martok knows to do such a thing -- they just assume he knows because of the intelligence shared by the only trusted person in the alpha quadrant who could have come up with the idea -- Odo.
*** Indeed they implement blood screenings even before Martok shows up; in "The Adversary" the changeling (then impersonating Bashir) swaps blood vials to falsely implicate Eddington as the changeling; the fraud is only exposed because the real Bashir happens to be locked up across the hall from the holding cell they are planning to put Eddington in. Why it doesn't occur to them at the time that the blood test can be faked in the opposite direction too, however, is a mystery.
*** Come to think of it, it'd be pretty easy to get around that test if you knew ahead of time you'd be taking it. And by making it standard practice, you know when to expect it.
*** It would be a hell of a lot harder if the Feds did a DNA test on the resulting blood which probably takes less than a minute with their technology, that would at least limit the infiltrators to having to always impersonate the same person.
** Two Words: Security Theater [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater]]
** It's a ShoutOut to ''Film/TheThing1982'', though it actually seemed to work in that case.

[[folder: Scent of a Changeling]]
* When Changelings were infiltrating the Alpha Quadrant, why didn't Alpha Quadrant governments think to use ''scent'' to detect them? Being inorganic life forms, Changelings would not smell the same as mammalian life forms in the Alpha Quadrant. Also, Changelings have no sense of smell, so they wouldn't be able to mimic the unique scents of humans, Klingons, or other species they impersonate. Couldn't Alpha Quadrant authorities have used specially trained dogs to sniff out Changeling infiltrators? Better yet, couldn't they have recruited members of races with very strong senses of smell to root out Changelings?
** Since Changelings can apparently become fire and merge themselves with a human (when the dying Changeling in "The Begotten" linked with solid Odo) there's no reason to rule out the possibility that the infiltrators can't slough off a small amount of cells that retain their solid form and smell convincingly like the original. In principle it's no different than when The Great Link turned Odo into a solid. If The Link can cast off solid organic matter the size of a human, a Changeling should be able to do that with skin cells.
*** What makes you so sure Changelings have no sense of smell? Sure, that's what Odo says to trick the assassin in ''Improbable Cause'', but since he was lying about wanting to buy some perfume who's to say he wasn't lying about having a sense of smell? The whole thing was probably just a BatmanGambit to get the guy to talk.
*** In "If Wishes Were Horses", Quark jokingly tells Odo to try smelling opportunity in the air. Odo replies that he has no sense of smell.
*** See above. That's ''Odo'' saying he has no sense of smell. It's possible he doesn't have one because he's not a good enough Changeling to shape shift himself the necessary glands, nerves, and receptors. Other Changelings can obviously exactly duplicate humans, including all their bones and organs, so it's not exactly a stretch to figure they give themselves a sense of smell (and can imitate scents) in the process.

[[folder: Can Changelings Always Sense Each Other?]]
* In "The Search", Odo is instinctively drawn to the Omarion Nebula, where he discovers the Great Link. The Female Changeling explains that the pull to other Changelings was encoded in him. This encoding is also exhibited by Laas, who instinctively locates Odo in "Chimera". However, in "Heart of Stone", the Female Changeling disguises herself as Kira and tricks Odo into believing she's Kira for several hours. In other episodes, Odo is in close proximity to Changeling infiltrators, but he doesn't sense their presence. Why couldn't Odo sense that a Changeling was present in all those instances?
** That's a great point, Changelings ''do'' seem to have some innate ability to recognize each other. Another example was in ''Homefront'' where Odo identifies a Changeling infiltrator that was impersonating Admiral Layton after only a brief conversation--though I think this was implied to be because of Odo's skill as an investigator. In ''The Adversary'', however, he has no idea who the infiltrator is, so maybe a talented and experienced Changeling is able to hide their nature from a less skilled one.
** A good point, indeed (it takes a while for Odo to recognize the Martok changeling, too). I wonder, considering that Changelings, though highly used to needing to fool solids, seem not to be used to needing to fool each other, how do they hone these skills?
** It could also be that their ability to "sense" each other, like the nebula homing signal, is limited to the Hundred. The majority of Changelings wouldn't need a SpiderSense because they're spending almost all of their time in the Link (and it seems like when they're out doing Dominion dirty work, they tend to be spread out if not completely solo, so don't need a proximity sense--they'd just use normal methods of communication) and the Hundred are supposed to come to ''them''. If two members of the Hundred run into each other, though, it would probably be to their benefit to team up, and they might not recognize each other as like beings otherwise.
** Odo wasn't sensing other Changelings when he had the "feeling" about the nebula. It was just a vague feeling that he had been there before. Remember, Odo was BORN on that planet. It's like if you go back to a place you lived when you were very young but had consciously forgotten about, but you get a "this place seems familiar" feeling. That's all it was for Odo.
*** Furthermore, Odo didn't feel drawn toward the Omarion Nebula every time he was in the Gamma Quadrant, just during "The Search, Part I." This suggests that the Founders deliberately arranged for him to be drawn home at this time (akin to what they would later do in "Broken Link," if less severely), rather than something innate to his nature.

[[folder: Odo can do everything but faces]]
* So if Odo can perfectly imitate a rat, a bird, a chair, a drinking glass, a Bajoran uniform, a working Bajoran comm badge, presumably a working universal translator within his ear, and just about anything else, why are faces so difficult? Ears and noses should not be any harder than fur, paws, feathers, exact details of a rock, that comm badge, etc. He does hair perfectly, we've seen it messy and in strands before, so was the deal with faces just an attempt at making him seem like a stranger, or to make him more visible as "not human/Bajoran/whatever"?
** Some of that is covered in one very useful line from Homefront: "I'm not sure the gulls would agree." Odo can't imitate fur, paws, feathers, etc. as well as he seems to. It's just that humans (and other humanoid aliens, for their species respectively) are specially attuned to recognizing faces, and thus can recognize any imperfections in the attempt to do so far more easily than for any other object or living thing. At least that's the premise we're asked to accept. (And yes, it means that humans can notice imperfections in imitating Bajorans more than animal species from their own world; it's all part of having humanoid aliens.) I'm not sure this explains the comm badge and the translator, but it's possible that those things are done differently than just replicating the technology; perhaps changelings are inherently able to make their bodies perform such functions in some other way.
** I've always had a WMG on this that I like: It's an in-built restriction. We know that they have engineered the drive to return home into Odo so I don't find it unlikely to think that things like his regeneration cycle (which Word of God states is unique to him) and the inability to mimic faces are all part of the same thing. My guess is that it requires some form of training in the Great Link to reverse. It would also help prevent him from getting too close to the solids if he can't mimic them properly; the Federation and Bajorans don't care but imagine if he originally landed in the Klingon Empire for example. Incidentally the real world explanation is the same reason Troi isn't a full telepath: to help prevent his powers from reaching GameBreaker status.
** Also, real life data indicates that faces are, indeed, hard. There is a whole part of our brain dedicated to recognizing faces, and if this part is damaged, patients have to learn other tricks to tell other people apart from each other. And there are a lot of neurotypical people who have difficulty remembering faces. So imagine trying to create a detailed, unique humanoid face and maintain it constantly, while also maintaining the rest of your shape and walking around talking and checking on Quark - it would be very difficult.
** On the comm badge, I think we've seen a couple of times (possibly in "Invasive Procedures") people confiscate Odo's comm badge by taking it off his uniform like often happens to the Starfleet people. Yet, we never see it disintegrate into a puddle a few seconds later, so it must be a real comm badge... which raises another Headscratcher... where does it go when Odo morphs into something else? Does he drop it somewhere? If so, does he have to imitate one when he returns to humanoid form? Does it take it within himself, but that would make imitating something like a glass difficult. I don't know, maybe it goes to the same hammerspace he must leave some of his liquid in when he becomes something tiny like a bird and he retrieves it later.

[[folder: Odo can't come back?]]
* In the series finale, Odo makes it quite clear to Kira that once he joins the Great Link he won't be coming back. However, it's never made clear ''why'' exactly this is the case. Odo's stated goals in joining the Link are: 1) to cure the other Changelings from the virus, and 2) to teach them what he has learned about solids, so they would cease trying to rule over non-Changelings. The first goal is reached almost instantaneously: as soon as Odo enters Link, it starts to heal. The second goal probably takes more time, but it shouldn't take Odo decades... We've seen that the exchange of ideas via the link is very fast; for example, in the finale the female Founder is convinced to surrender almost immediately after the Odo links with her. So, after he's finished with his tasks, there shouldn't be any reason why Odo can't return to Kira – or at least visit him regularly, if he doesn't want to permanently leave the Link again. (Kira could easily visit Odo on the Founder planet too, but that option is never mentioned either.) This is especially baffling since only a few episodes earlier, in ''Chimera'', Odo didn't join Laas because his love for Kira was more important than linking with other Changelings.
** Odo doesn't ever actually say that he won't come back. He is basically telling Kira that he might not be back for a long time (possibly longer than her lifetime), so he wants to say goodbye now just in case (after all, something could happen to her while he's away, etc). He agreed to return to the Link to cure his people and end the war, and he wants to teach them now to trust "solids", and he recognizes that that is more important than his personal life.
** It's consistent with the logic with Kai Opaka in "Battle Lines": once you're in the Gamma Quadrant, you're there for good!
** It's not consistent at all; Kai Opaka was forced to stay on the planet she was on because the nanotech that revived her kept her tied there. If she'd left the planet, she would've died, which certainly isn't the case with Odo. Once he's done teaching the other Changelings about solids, there's no reason why couldn't leave the planet and visit Kira.
*** No need to be so literal. It's a reference to a storytelling device (and note that Opaka is treated as if she is flat out inaccessible forever, when in fact Bajor could hypothetically just radio her every time spiritual advice is needed).

[[folder: Typhoid Odo]]
* There's a certain amount that's never made sense to me about the disease Section 31 engineered. Contrary to his original assumption, Bashir determines that Odo was the first changeling infected with it, during the "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" two-parter. It must have remained within him even during his tenure without his powers; fair enough, the disease needs to survive in a lot of states of matter anyway. But why does he end up showing symptoms at all? Shouldn't he be a Typhoid Mary-style asymptomatic carrier? As soon as he shows symptoms, that eliminates the likelihood of him spreading it. Or was Section 31 just absurdly lucky that it took him so long to show symptoms, doubtless slowed down by factors they couldn't have anticipated (notably, his powers being removed?)?
** I always figured that he infected the Great Link when they turned him human, which actually ended up purging him of the disease, and he didn't contract it again until the early season six arc when he linked with the female Changeling again. Following that logic, maybe they did infect him with some Typhoid-Mary version of the disease that only activated after being spread once, but after his human stint and re-infection from the female Changeling he would end up with the activated version of the disease.
*** Nice though, but we know that scenario can't be accurate because of this exchange in "When It Rains . . ."
*** BASHIR: Hang on, hang on, I'm just trying to figure out when Odo became infected. I analyzed the sample he left and mapped out the life cycle of the virus. I'm programming the computer to calculate just how long it took for the virus to achieve its present level of concentration.
*** O'BRIEN: That makes sense. According to that, he was infected over two years ago?
*** BASHIR: More than that. I just don't understand. I assumed he became infected when he Linked with the female shape-shifter.
*** O'BRIEN: But if it happened that long ago, how come he hasn't shown any symptoms before?
*** BASHIR: Good question. Got it. Stardate four nine four one nine.
*** O'BRIEN: Almost three years ago.
*** BASHIR: Wait a minute. Four nine four one nine. That's the day that Odo was at Starfleet Medical.
*** This dialogue (key dialogue, as it proves he was infected by Section 31 deliberately) makes no sense whatsoever if Odo was infected, de-infected and re-infected.
* PS: I move that the disease be formally renamed "odosclerosis."

! Vorta and Jem'Hadar

[[folder: Jem'Hadar Tactics]]
* Why do the Jem'Hadar decloak before attacking instead of staying invisible? Even if they can't fire or attack for some reason whilst invisible they could all take positions so everyone ready to fire before decloaking all at once and firing. Rocks and Shoals suggest cloaks works even at extreme close range and some ambushes in that episode suggest that Jem'Hadar they can move whilst cloaked. This could be pretty cool if done, new ways of writing do not necessarily have to be developed as tropes already exist for fighting an invisible opponent (think predator). Imagine an episode with Sisko fighting a Jem'Hadar not through a Napoleonic charge but by setting traps (such as log falls, pit falls, landmines or even a jury rigged bear trap type device) in a forest or in a building and trying to outwit it by using tricks we've seen in movies such as puddles of water to reveal footprints and fire extinguishers to reveal their outline or even listening for footsteps and filling a key corridor with weapons fire. This can work with groups of Jem'Hadar too, the Predator reboot had a group of humans vs many Predators. How badass would the Jem'Hadar seem then and how badass would Sisko be fighting them?
** I wonder what the Federation's position is on exploding a Jem'Hadar's head with a bear trap? :\, on the other hand this is Sisko we're talking about.
** Maybe they don't find it honorable to fight without giving their enemies a semblance of a chance to fight back.
*** The Jem'Hadar are not Klingons or Hirogen. They do not fight with honor or to some sort of code. And no, the odd nice one we see here and there are not the majority.
** It's once mentioned that the Jem'Hadar can loose their ability to cloak (they use the word 'shroud') when they're suffering form Ketracel-white withdraw. This seems to imply their ability to shroud themselves is a biological function, rather than a technological one. Maybe their bodies can't handle the strain of cloaking and combat at the same time. You'd think that if this were the case, though, Jem'Hadar military doctrine would heavily emphasize tactics that minimize close-in combat.

[[folder: Me Vorta, me no like art!]]
A lot is made of the fact that the Vorta species were uplifted by the Founders and genetically sculpted to be their ambassadors and administrators. Some of this makes sense, like their substandard eyesight but excellent hearing. But how exactly do you genetically engineer a species with no sense of aesthetics? Since when is the ability to appreciate art a genetic trait?
* Since when is it not? How many other species on Earth besides humans do you know who can? Besides, considering that in RealLife we are nowhere near knowing how to genetically engineer any of these traits, why would we question that if the Founders can do one, they could do the others as well?
* One wonders if the Changelings merely ''told'' the Vorta they had no capacity for aesthetics, and that was enough.
** I love the idea that this is just one more example of the Founders' casual cruelty. Weyoun clearly ''wants'' to be able to appreciate art; he's studying that painting so intently that it's hard not to see longing. In designing the Vorta, they've given them no ability to enjoy beauty, but allowed them the ability to understand what they're missing.
* If you can implant genetic memory (like a baby Jem'Hadar knowing how to speak and instinctively worshipping Changelings), you can implant a personality into your clones. That's why all the Weyouns are the same. It's a personality trait they've bred into the Vorta somehow.
** Except that kind of "genetic memory" has the exact same problem. It's nothing but pseudoscience.
*** You mean like faster-than-light travel that doesn't suffer extreme relativistic effects, or aliens from across the galaxy being able to reproduce with one another, or transporters and replicators that don't require prohibitively large amounts of energy to work, or transporter accidents that combine two different species into one healthy individual, or Changelings that can turn into fire and seemingly change mass? It's science fiction, you just have to accept some implausibility for the sake of the storyline.
** We might be over thinking it a little bit. Brains are complex and most everything we do is accompanied by a host of complex chemical reactions. For the Vorta, certain visual stimuli may simply not trigger the same processes in their brains that they would in a human brain. The Vorta lack of any sense of ascetics may not be a case of designing 'genetic memory,' but simply a hormone imbalance (from our perspective).
* The Vorta built-in indifference to art and to food flavors (therefore, probably to scent as well) makes sense in terms of their roles as ambassadors: to them, all appearances are equally beautiful/ugly with the exception of the Founders, who will always surpass all others in the Vorta's eyes. With no aesthetic sense, no Vorta will ever mess up a crucial meeting by letting slip a distaste for an ally's clothes fashion or high art, no Vorta will ever offend another creature by wrinkling his nose at any body stench, no Vorta will ever insult a host by disliking whatever national dish has been served to him. Similarly, with no aesthetic sense, no Vorta will ever be swayed in the least by someone's beauty, by the eloquence in presentation that accompanies many arguments, or by the propaganda force in a piece of art or music that would stir the hearts of most other beings -- for them, there is no other beauty in the universe except the Founders. Imagine an ambassador who will never judge anyone by the aesthetics of how they look, sound, smell, feel or by what they consider beautiful or tasty or pleasing to the ear, and you have a Vorta.
** But they'll also be unable to create social connections with their allies either. They won't feel distaste for bad art, but they won't be able to ''appreciate'' good art either, which may be taken as an even bigger insult. They won't swoon at the sight of a beautiful female, but again, apparent indifference can be just as insulting as obvious disgust. Even if the Vorta's indifference to all forms of beauty doesn't cause offense, the purpose of an ambassador is to ''charm'' the members of a host government. Having no sense of aesthetics whatsoever would be a huge disadvantage in that regard. A Vorta ambassador would be incapable of flattering their hosts by complimenting their culture and/or drawing parallels between their culture and that of the Dominion. In fact they would be fundamentally incapable of even ''understanding'' other cultures. I'm not saying a slave race that sees no beauty in the universe, save for their Creators, wouldn't be useful. They would make ideal laborers or bureaucrats (and admittedly the Vorta seem to be those as well). But they would make poor ambassadors.
*** Possible FridgeBrilliance when you consider ''who'' created the Vorta: the Changelings. The same Changelings who consider all solid lifeforms as either inferior or inferior and needing to be exterminated. The Vorta are diplomats designed by a race who doesn't really "get" diplomacy.
** No, 'cause the Vorta can read social cues to see that x painting is clearly valued and lauded by the culture, steer the conversation onto ''what'' makes the art so wonderful (technique, history, etc), and then lie about finding it impressive because the Vorta ''are'' good at that. Weyoun just confesses his desire to genuinely appreciate them in a private moment.
** Even if the Vorta have no physical biases towards the species they interact, they still have an obvious disdain towards anyone that doesn't automatically bow down to the Founder's will. And if they meet enough resistance from one particular species (like the Cardassians or the humans), what is to prevent them from developing harmful attitudes towards that species' art and culture?
* This troper always believed that the Changelings purposely engineered a lack of art appreciation into the Vorta as a way of preventing their minds from wandering off towards anything that doesn't involve absolute loyalty to the Founders. Kind of like how a religious covenant may try to prevent any sexual relations so their followers maintain their closeness to god, except in the case of the Founders what they did was far more invasive.

[[folder: Genetic Loyalty]]
Doesn't anyone find the idea of the Vorta and Jem'hadar being genetically engineered to revere the Founders as gods kind of out there? While it's been partially proven that there are a set of genes known as [=VMAT2=] (also known as the "God Gene") that allow for a high degree of spirituality to be passed on, being able to biologically control how that spirituality is expressed towards certain groups just doesn't seem possible. A person can be born with a high level of [=VMAT2=] but not automatically become a Christian (though he may be more predisposed towards becoming one than a person with a lower level of spirituality). The same can be said about man's best friend as well. We've bred dogs for thousands of years to regard humans as undisputed pack leaders, but just because a dog is loyal to one human doesn't mean it's loyal to every other human (unless it was exceptionally friendly). And even a dog's loyalty can run short if it's master is being particularly abusive. Weyoun was acting pretty scared when the Female Changeling angrily suggested killing and replacing him with another clone if the cloning tanks ever got working again. There were plenty of hints that he was trying to prolong his own survival by lying that the amount of time it would take to fix them would last days, if not weeks.
Most of the Jem'hadar have never actually seen a founder, yet continue their duties anyway out of spiritual obligation, kind of similar to a bunch of militant Puritans. While the Vorta have more direct communication with the Founders, they still remain staunchly loyal to their masters because so far their masters have never done anything that they consider particularly abusive. While it is true they were engineered with no taste in art and lack a few human senses, if their story about them being ape-like forest dwellers that were uplifted by a grateful changeling is true then what reason do they have to complain about their servitude? And besides, what the Vorta get in exchange for that servitude isn't half bad - they're functionally immortal, can get nifty telekinetic powers, and are responsible for heading most aspects of a powerful interstellar empire while their masters lounge around and be peaceful on their home planet. That sounds like a pretty good deal.
** But the Vorta and Jem'hadar are not bred like dogs. They are genetically engineered from the ground up -- the Jem'hadar may not have had any existence before the Founders, and we only have Weyoun's word that the Vorta did. The fact that we don't have a gene that would make us fanatically loyal to a group of strangers from birth does necessarily not entirely mean such a gene could never exist in any creature, does it? After all, they've had literally millennia to get it right.
*** And if it's true that the Vorta were just timid (and possibly non-sentient) ape-like creatures beforehand, then it's probable that little of their former dispositions remain after the Founders' influence, taste for nuts and berries notwithstanding.
** Even if that is true, how would both races be able to maintain their loyalty to their masters if some members of the Dominion decided to go renegade? The Dominion may be linked but as Odo has shown it's not foolproof. For example, If the Vorta and Jem'hadar were to receive two contradictory orders from two conflicting "gods", which one are they going to follow? Heck, how are they able to tell who and who is not a changeling? Like the {{Rubber Forehead Aliens}}, there's a decent chance there could be an alien species out in space that may have forms and abilities similar to the Changelings. If the Jem'hadar and Vorta encountered them, would they treat them with the same reverence?
*** We have seen Jem'hadar go rogue ("To the Death," and sort of in "Hippocratic Oath"), and we have also seen Vorta opt for self-preservation over their orders (Keevan), so it obviously is possible for them to disobey the Founder under some circumstances. They're clearly not genetically incapable of doing so (again: if that were the case, White wouldn't be necessary), just that they're powerfully predisposed to follow the Founders' will
** It's not necessarily all genetic. We know that Jem'hadar are grown in artificial wombs. Perhaps part of the pod's function is to condition their developing minds with certain beliefs and attitudes. Similarly, the Vorta don't necessarily have genetic memory. Maybe they get periodic brain scans. Then when one dies, the clone gets imprinted with the most recent "backup" of his predecessor. That would explain why the loss of the Alpha Quadrant cloning facility could mean no more Weyouns, if the memory files were stored there. They could always take DNA samples from Weyoun 8's corpse, but they wouldn't have his memories to put in the new clone.

! Other Races

[[folder: State-sponsored murder has no consequences]]

* In ''Armageddon Game'' the T'Lani and Kellerun decide to help each other bury all knowledge of a biological weapon by killing everyone involved in dismantling it, including Bashir and O'Brien. Ignoring the fact that they thought they could murder two officers from the regional superpower they then try to murder Sisko and Dax when they attempt to rescue the two. By this point it's clear that at least an important Federation officer is aware of the attempted murder and the two races could reasonably infer that his officers would know where he went and what his suspicions were. Did they ''really'' think that they could just cover this up too? Were they really certain that the Federation wouldn't consider retaliation? For that matter their motives make no sense. They offer to let Sisko and Dax go if they hand over Bashir and O'Brien because they just want to kill anyone who had knowledge of the weapon. If they really can't trust the Federation to never make use of the weapon then murder won't change anything, the Federation easily has enough resources and expertise to make its own.
** Another horrifying thought: Given the length that the T'Lani and Kelleruns were willing to go to to prevent knowledge of the harvesters from continuing to exist... who's to say that O'Brien and Bashir were necessarily safe once they arrived back on the station? Did they have to look over their shoulders the rest of the lives?
** Probably not. Now that the Federation knows what they wanted to do, trying it ''again'' would give them worse things to worry about than a few biological weapons here or there. And Bashir and O'Brien are unlikely to return to T'Lani or Kellerun space of their own accord, or even talk to their representatives, so the knowledge won't be returned to the people who are interested in it.
*** The T'Lani and Kellerun were certainly willing to attempt murder when there was no reason to think that O'Brien and Bashir would return anyway. Really the only way they could be safe would be a very large warship reminding both species ''why'' the Federation is one of the dominant powers in the galaxy.
** I'm more interested as to why they had to dismantle the weapon if no one was to have knowledge of its working. Couldn't they just flung it into a star, or disperse it with a transporter? Surely there were other ways than to spend a week trying to destroy the weapon by finding the right frequency and then killing everyone involved. Also, we've seen memory manipulation technology multiple times - that would have wiped their memories and not lead to a conflict with the Federation.
* My favorite example of state-sponsored murder having no consequences on the show occurs in the episode ''Improbable Cause'', in which the Tal Shiar blows up a ship in sovereign Bajoran space. . .and then claim that they were well within their rights to do so because the man who owned the ship was a criminal. It gets even better when we find out that the man had been hired by the Obsidian Order ''and'' the Tal Shiar to assassinate Garak. We never hear of any action taken against the Romulans government for this.
** Well, the Romulan empire is a hostile and powerful nation that doesn't have any relevant treaties with the Bajorans, so you can't exactly just reprimand them without inviting a war that you'll lose.
*** [=IIRc=] they waited until just after the ship left Bajoran space. Sisko complains about it and the Romulans make that point.
*** After watching the episode again, there's nothing that conclusively states whether or not the ship was still in Bajoran space. Dialogue only tells us is that his ship had departed [=DS9=] slightly more than two minutes before it exploded, and that it had been traveling at sub-light speed during that time. Since the explosion was clearly and immediately visible to Garak and Odo, we can infer that the ship hadn't traveled very far by ''Star Trek'' standards, but not if it was still in Bajoran territory.
** Let's put this another way: The intelligence service of one superpower infiltrated a military base operated by a rival superpower--on foreign soil, though it may be--and planted a bomb on a ship that was docked there. It's not just an act of state-sponsored murder, it's an act that has a real potential to lead to an armed conflict.
*** One assumes this is just the kind of case where the Federation is apt to say, "Well, that was certainly wrong but since no Federation citizens were involved, let's not worry ourselves too much..." Further, nothing conclusively says that it was on [=DS9=] that the Romulans planted the bomb -- it could have been there all along, but not activated till after he left the station. Because of the relative smallness of this incident (not to mention the course of events immediately following), it's easier to justify than many similar cases.

[[folder: The Prophets care about marriage?]]

* So the Prophets/wormhole aliens are non-corporeal beings which don't experience linear time (and I'm putting aside all the problems *that* causes) and have said several times that they don't understand, and don't care much about the lives and problems of corporeal beings. (Sisko got them to admit they were wrong on some of the caring part, granted, but...) But then in Till Death Do Us Part, they have a hissy-fit about Sisko marrying Cassidy. They say "she can't walk the same path as him". How can they associate such a culture-specific act as marriage with their cosmic idea of a path for their emissary? Why didn't they object the same way when they started dating, or when they first fell in love (both long before their marriage)? Using the Federation-designated marriage event seems a little too convenient to the plot.
** The Prophets didn't say Sisko couldn't get married. They just said if he did it would cause sorrow. Because they knew what was going to happen to him.

[[folder: As long as it's all a game laws don't matter]]

* In ''Move Along Home'' the Wadi force Kira, Sisko, Dax and Bashir to be game pieces in Quark's game, at times making them reasonably believe that their lives are in danger. At the end of the episode Sisko starts to call them on this before Odo advises him to get the full story from Quark. Even though Quark did unwittingly help cause it that doesn't change the fact that the Wadi abducted several officers. So are we supposed to feel that as long as Quark gets yelled at and the Wadi explain that they never had the four in real danger it makes the crime go away? Would Sisko tolerate it if they did this again?
** Diplomatic immunity?
*** Exactly. Seriously, what do you expect Sisko could do? Arrest them? Expel them? Kick the first formal visitors from the Gamma Quadrant off his station because they made him ''think'' he was in personal danger? I'm amusing myself by picturing Admiral Nechayev's reaction that decision! Sisko's reaction -- "that was weird, but let's put it behind us" -- is the only one possible.
*** If they had put a gun to his head and then revealed that it was fake I doubt he would have been so forgiving.
*** And? They didn't put a gun to his head. And try this on for size: the Wadi well and truly did not seem to understand that anyone ''wouldn't'' want to take part in their game. They misjudged their audience (as did the Iyaarans in ''Liaisons'') but when cultures are interacting for the first time, this is a known risk.
*** It also might be good to recall that Captain Kirk, in episodes like "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Spectre of the Gun," shakes off the fact that aliens have just put him and crew through the ringer and still wants to make friends with them. What the Wadi are doing isn't so different.
*** It's a cultural confusion. These types of games are normal for the Wadi and they didn't realize how terrified it would make the humans who are in the game.
*** Who's to say Sisko ''could'' have done anything to them if he'd wanted to? He knows they have the ability to abduct people from their quarters without a trace and stick them in some other dimension or version of reality. Would the brig hold them? What might they be capable of if he offended them? Best to smile and hope they go away peacefully.
*** And don't forget, the whole thing was Quark's fault in the first place.

[[folder:Good Luck With That Trapped on a Deathless War World Thing!]]
* ''Deep Space Nine'' episode "Battle Lines"
** They discover a planet with the mysterious power to provide eternal youth and immortality. Its inhabitants have for centuries lived a life of unceasing fear, violence and despair. They were jailed there centuries ago as part of a plan to make their existence an approximation of eternal Hell. Everyone there wants to leave. In the course of the action, the highly-revered religious leader of one of the Federation's most important allies is stranded there. The only thing separating the planet from the outside world is an aging automated satellite defense system.
** '''Starfleet Response:''' Who cares? Let the fuckers rot.
*** Said satellite system is also the only thing keeping those inhabitants alive.
*** Starfleet began working on a way to get them out of there without killing them, but it was never brought up in the series again.
*** The planet is in the Gamma Quadrant, which just happens to be enemy territory for the second half of the show. Even if anyone has the time and resource to come up with a solution, there'll be a minor problem in testing it out or implementing it, if you catch my drift.
*** They left Opaka behind because they had no way to get her off-planet without killing her. And even if they had, she seemed to have decided that bringing peace to this world was her destiny. Kind of a noble sacrifice.
*** A good thing Kira was there, though. The Bajoran government would likely have been pretty pissed off and suspicious if an all-Starfleet crew came back and said "Yeah, she told us to tell you she's staying behind. You'll have to take our word for it." Bajor was still somewhat uncomfortable with the Federation at that point, and something like that would have been a major, major problem if the government's own chosen liaison officer couldn't verify Starfleet's story.
** The original poster seems to have neglected this conversation towards the end of the episode:
---> '''Shel-la:''' Leaving without us?
---> '''Bashir:''' My analysis of the microbes that keep you alive showed that if you were to leave the moon, you would die...
---> '''Shel-la:''' So there ''is'' no end.
---> '''Bashir''' ''[turning to Sisko]:'' Commander, I find myself caught in a moral dilemma. As much as I'm dedicated to the preservation of life, I wonder if we shouldn't help these people end this torture...
---> '''Sisko:''' How could you do that?
---> '''Bashir:''' Anything that can be programmed can be reprogrammed. If I can disable the mechanism in these microbes, they would no longer function when someone was killed, and these people would finally be allowed to die.
---> '''Shel-la:''' You've seen our lives here. Please... it's the only solution left. Give us a way to reprogram these microbes, and it will mean the end of this war.
---> '''Kira:''' You really think the fear of death would stop the fighting? It never has in any ''other'' war.
** The following is the WhamLine here:
---> '''Shel-la:''' No-- but it will allow us to ''finally win.'' Wipe out the Nol for good.
---> ''[We cut to Bashir's astonished, disgusted reaction.]''
---> '''Shel-la:''' On this world, your disabled microbes would be the ultimate weapon, Doctor-- one that we could use to truly destroy our enemies.
** So the point here is: They didn't disable the microbes because the Ennis and the Nol-Ennis would simply use it as an excuse to finally annihilate one another. They had no interest in making peace with one another, and that's why Kai Opaka willingly stayed-- to help them begin the healing process. (In the ExpandedUniverse, the two tribes eventually make peace, unify, and gain the ability to leave the moon.)
*** That makes sense - when they had the benefit of immortality, if not for the war, they would have had plenty of time to develop scientific processes necessary to not only understand the microbes, but alter them. It is possible that it was, in part, a component of the plan of those who imprisoned them there to begin with - their fighting would continue until they had eventually learned the futility of it, and started to actually work together. Eventually, they would come to develop the technology necessary to end the cycle completely and escape the moon, but it could only happen if they first end their war with each other, and since both sides were made immortal, war could not be ended by the victory of one side over the other - only a diplomatic ending was possible.
** The surprising thing to me was that the Bajorans seemed to treat her as though she died, and we never heard from or about her again. Beloved as she was, you'd think they would have tried to stay in touch with her. Even if she could never leave the planet, she could write encyclicals or whatever Kais do when they're not grabbing people's ears. When there were disputes over things like Bajor's leadership or whether to enter the Federation, you'd think both sides would be going to her (when the wormhole was open) seeking her endorsement.

[[folder:Deanna Troi's Baby Brother]]
* From "The Muse", how in the Nine Hells does Tamnian law regarding the disposition of Lwaxana Troi's child supersede ''Federation'' law? Instead of going through that unbelievably ridiculous rigamarole with Odo, why didn't Troi just file an injunction in a Federation civilian court? After all, she's not just a Federation citizen, but a freaking ''ambassador''.
** Lwaxana wanted sole custody of the child. There's no reason to think the Federation courts would give her that. Jeyal is the father, and hadn't shown himself to be an unfit parent. At least not by his own culture's standards.

[[folder: You don't mind us invading your station, do you?]]
* In "Captive Pursuit", the unnamed hunter species fires on [=DS=]9, beams heavily armed men on board, and engages in a fire fight with security officers. All the while refusing to communicate at all. When the fighting stops, they seem utterly bewildered that anyone would object to their behavior. The episode focuses on the culture clash regarding the morality of hunting a sentient being, but what about the attack on the station? They could easily start wars that way. Why would they think they could forcefully invade an unknown alien space station without consequences?
** Being from the Gamma Quadrant, you'd think that they'd be a lot more cautious. Imagine [[DisproportionateRetribution what would happen]] if they'd tried that crap on a Dominion facility.
** There was a deleted scene where a Hunter was shown on a Dominion ship, indicating they are part of the Dominion. Since at the end of "Captive Pursuit" they say that the Alpha Quadrant will be considered out-of-bounds for any future hunts I'd imagine they have a similar rule about any Dominion installation, as well.
** The best I can figure is they thought they were entitled to beam onto [=DS=]9 and continue their hunt without interference, so they thought they were ''defending themselves'' from the [=DS=]9 crew.
** Branching off from this, why the hell didn't Sisko hammer home to the hunters that, even though if he refused to hand over Tosk and thus broke their cultural laws, the hunters have ALREADY broken not just cultural laws but rules in place for the safe and decent continued living of everyone on board [=DS=]9? Handing over Tosk would've been fine if the hunters had actually simply asked the station to beam aboard and continue their hunt, problem solved! At the very least, Sisko should've hammered home that the attack on the station was so unjustified that no, Prime Directive be damned, he does not have to follow the cultural laws of a race that introduced itself as hostile! The hunters should've been kicked off the station, or arrested, at least! And then Tosk could've been allowed to do what he needed, since the ruth came out at that point.
** It's a case of "no harm, no foul," surely the unofficial rule of [=DS9=] in these early episodes.

! Miscellaneous

[[folder: Random overly-complicated conspiracy]]
* In ''Whispers'' why did they see the need for a long, very suspicious and constantly breaking down conspiracy to keep the clone O'Brien in the dark? If they had to keep it secret why didn't they just tell him that he had a non-contagious but dangerous disease that needed him to remain in the sickbay. It'd be incredibly easy to slip him a sedative and give him a mild fever. Instead they not only constantly dropped blatantly obvious hints to O'Brien, they also forced Keiko (someone who can be very emotional and not good at hiding feelings), Molly (a child) and Quark (someone just not safe to trust a secret to) to go along.
** Yeah, "Whispers" is a good example of an effective episode that falls apart when put to logic. Even if one assumes that Molly is just being stroppy and Quark is acting oddly and these are all coincidences, it's obvious that the smart thing to do would be to sequester O'Brien and hope for the best.
** Odo once stated that killing your own clone is still murder and as such implies that under Bajoran law clones have just as many rights as normal people do. ''Slipping him a sedative and give him a mild fever'' sounds like something that seriously breeches their canon of ethics. Of course this is just Bajoran law we're talking about here as Riker and Pulaski once got away with slaying their illicitly made clones without even a slap on the wrist and we all know from Bashir how badly they treat augmented humans... so in fact they probably could have just transferred him to a Federation ship outside of Bajoran space and done whatever the hell they liked with him so the original point still stands in a way.
*** They (clones) have the right not to be killed, just like normal people do, but I doubt those rights include keeping the job, spouse, and guardianship of your original and their kids. The duplicate O'Brien basically had no legitimate reason to be on the station, and so could have been detained on that basis.
*** They also don't have to do anything underhanded to the fake O'Brien. They can handle him straightforwardly, just with incomplete information. As soon as he arrives on the station, they can say, "We need to confine you for security reasons. Sorry, we can't explain why until after the peace talks. Here's some technical manuals to read and plenty of coffee." Fake O'Brien is no doubt aware that crew members are not always going to be immediately informed about their superiors' rationale for orders, however odd they may seem; confining him wouldn't be unethical, just unusual. If he's a fake, they buy time to investigate the matter on other fronts. If he's not, all they have is a grumpy engineer on their hands. The absolute last thing you want is to put him in a position where he becomes suspicious and still has the autonomy to roam the station on his own volition (since they have no idea what might trigger his programming), but the plot needs him to do so nevertheless.
*** Considering that they don't seem to give a damn about the clone as it lies dying and all the other breaches of privacy we've seen on Deep Space Nine it seems very hard to believe that giving him a ''sedative'' is where they draw the ethical line.
* You all seem to be forgetting the extremely important point that they aren't SURE that he's a clone. They're trying to determine if he is or not without arousing his suspicion, because if it's a clone and has been programmed to kill someone, who knows what it will do if it knows it's been discovered?
** Everything seems to indicate that they knew exactly what he was and if they weren't sure who the target was, why would they wait and allow someone with all the engineering and combat experience of O'Brien permission to wander around the station? If he's kept in a confined place with a plausible reason at least they aren't putting the entire station at danger and forcing his family to live with an unknowing imposter by letting him roam freely.
* Everyone seems to have watched a very different version of this episode than I recently did, because among other things I specifically saw that when the clone went down, Sisko was kneeling at his side and calling desperately for Bashir to come help (and he did try).

[[folder: Most intriguing inquest ever]]
* I'm always disappointed that we don't get to see the inquest of Garak that follows "Empok Nor," which O'Brien implies will go smoothly. "True, he's mysterious and unpredictable. True, we think he used to be a spy or assassin or torturer or something. True, he has betrayed us on multiple occasions and once tried to sabotage the ''Defiant'' to commit genocide. True, he killed a Starfleet crewman. But honestly! He's really a great guy..."
** Basically, Garak was not in control of his actions during that episode, and he even tried to warn everyone of what he might do. He wasn't held responsible for the actions that took place when he was effectively in a state of GrandTheftMe.
* I suppose the question is how impartial said inquest is likely to be, and whether it's run by the Bajorans or Starfleet.
** There were extenuating circumstances. Basically, it's "Let's reset Garak and forget this poor episode ever happened."
*** Interestingly, though, Nog remembered that incident, and as of ''Rocks and Shoals'', no longer trusts Garak--so there was some continuity.
** There seems to be a rule in Federation law that says if you've been forced to do something against your will thanks to MindRape, GrandTheftMe illicit drugs and chemicals etc. that you are free from any and all punishment. Garak is by far not the first person who Starfleet has allowed to escape punishment and personally I agree with them; why should you be in trouble for something that some dick has decided to inflict upon you?
*** Indeed, many jurisdictions have such laws dealing with "diminished responsibility." That Garak would be cleared is not particularly at issue; it's just that any thorough inquest would need to pry into Garak's past and character... fun times. I suppose Starfleet intelligence (with whom Garak is tacitly working) would just have to step in.

[[folder: Jake's Penmanship]]
* In ''The Muse'', we find Jake falling under the influence of a [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanan_s%C3%ADdhe leanan sidhe style character]] who draws out his talent for writing, at the expense of his life energies. She introduces him to something completely new: writing on paper, with an old-fashioned ink-based calligraphy pen. And yet he writes in cursive--a difficult style that takes lots of practice and study to learn, and is rapidly becoming a lost art even in today's world with the advent of personal computing--and his penmanship is beautiful. How can someone who's never written with a pen and paper write like that?
** AWizardDidIt. Since Onaya's using her ability to inspire Jake's writing, and then sucking his life energy, it's not ''that'' much of a stretch. [[ArbitrarySkepticism We've seen stranger things happen]].
** [[WMG Maybe he's never used a pen and paper because he's been using a PADD and stylus?]]

[[folder: Worf vs. Dukat]]
* Worf presumably knows that Dukat killed his wife, but I've always thought it a bit odd that he doesn't seem to take it that personally. He assures her place in Sto-vo-kor but never avenges her death or even seems particularly determined to do so (admittedly, the presence of Ezri is a calming factor). I can see why the writers didn't want to go that direction (how many characters can have arch-rivalries with Dukat, anyway? Sisko, Kira, Garak... the list goes on), but compare what he did to Duras.
** Dukat was disguised as a Bajorian for most of the seventh season, so it may have been a matter that Worf couldn't find him. If you were looking for Dukat, would looking for him in Kai Winn's vagina be among the first things you did? Above all though, Ezri's presence does negate a good reason for revenge, he can talk to her after all and avenging the death of someone you can still talk to (more or less) doesn't make much sense.
*** For the record, Dukat is in disguise on Bajoran for seven episodes which relatively speaking cover a short temporal period... hardly most of the season by any measure. And Worf expresses no desire for revenge on Dukat at any point, even before Ezri turns up,
** I wonder if destroying that Dominion shipyard in ''Shadows and Symbols'' would be considered sufficient revenge in lieu of killing Dukat?
*** One almost gets the impression that Worf, having found religion since "Reunion," now pursues revenge through a different, sideways strategy.
** The Worf that killed Duras and the Worf that started season 7 of Deep Space nine is ''not'' same man. Look at how he acts in ''Where Silence Has Lease'' - the man often acted like a confused wild animal. He is calmer, more rational and arguably may still have had Picard's condemnation of him all those years before still ringing in his ears. Besides that, Worf had a massive advantage against Duras in that A) he was directly next to the Enterprise at the time and B) was forced to accept Worf's challenge by the other Klingons. Even before the plastic surgery Dukat could be anywhere in the galaxy and is very likely to either run away to shoot Worf on sight - remember that both men involved here are highly skilled soldiers whereas Duras was far more bark-than-bite as they say.
*** Again, the question is not "could Worf practically have achieved vengeance on Dukat?" so much as "isn't it odd that Worf never expresses any desire to do so?" I simply don't think being so nonchalant about his wife's murderer being at large is in character for any version of Worf, or any practically Klingon for that matter. It points to how clumsily Dax's death was handled overall.
*** Clumsy as it was, I wonder if the writers assumed that fans would understand that Worf's desire for revenge was just a given. The show repeatedly addressed Worf's feelings on the matter, and at this point, the Klingon mentality had been firmly established, so maybe they just missed opportunities to highlight it when they came thinking that they'd be retreading old ground.
** Well, considering that Dukat literally burned Jadzia to death with "magic", even Worf may have felt the odds far too risky. Warrior race or no, I doubt a Klingon's going to think it smart to challenge someone who merged with an alien being that's practically god-like and could probably bake his internal organs with a mere thought.
*** You mean Worf the Klingon, who once challenged his commanding officer for cowardice? The same Worf who instead of revenge led a mission where he almost flew into a sun to honor Jadzia? I don't think so. At least he would never admit that was the reason.
*** You also have to remember that Worf is a man who on several occasions has expressed an intent to physically attack Q, and was only held back by officers with cooler heads. In fact, assaulting beings with god-like powers was more or less his job description on TNG--he's the [[WorfEffect namesake]] for [[WorfBarrage more]] than one [[WorfHadTheFlu trope]] that illustrates that. Worf would pimp slap Yog-Sothoth without any concern for the consequences.
** Worf is obsessed with winning a great battle to get Jadzia into Sto-vo-kor, but I doubt that is the only reason. It's possible he doesn't stop at blaming Dukat for Jadzia's death but rather the whole lot of them and is that much more eager to take down the Dominion and Cardassians because of her murder.
** Another point: in "Sons and Daughters," Jadzia says, "Every time a member of the House of Martok gets dishonored or killed, I'll have to drop whatever I'm doing and rush off on some quest for vengeance." But she herself ends up a member of the House of Martok a few episodes later. Shouldn't an entire Klingon Great House be after vengeance for Jadzia, then? If this all happens off screen, well... lousy showing, House of Martok.
** Revenge is not the problem - finding Dukat is.
*** Again, there is not a single indication that anyone tried to find him, or wanted to find him.
** Perhaps stranger is the fact that in "Image in the Sand," everyone is trying to figure out why Worf is not getting over mourning Jadzia's death, and no one even raises the fact that her murderer is out there as a possible factor.
** She was killed by a high ranking military officer of a faction they were at war with. While I have no doubt Worf would happily break Dukat in half given the chance, it is not a death that demands vengeance. The Empire would stop functioning if every death ever required vengeance. Contrast the Blood Oath (from episode of same name). The Albino killed three children with a custom virus. Those were murders that required vengeance. Dax was a solider who died facing her enemy in combat. One sided it may have been, but it was face to face.

[[folder: Future militaries are fine with fraternization?]]
* Modern militaries have policies against fraternization between officers, as well as between superiors and their subordinates. However, fraternization doesn't seem to be an issue in ''Star Trek'' universe militaries. For instance, Kira enters a romantic relationship with Odo, even though she is his superior officer in the Bajoran militia. Bashir and Ezri Dax become romantically involved, even though they're both Starfleet officers. Neither of these couples face official censure for their relationships. Considering the problems that can potentially erupt when romantic relationships develop in a military force, why do the Bajoran militia and Starfleet seem okay with it?
** Most regulations against fraternization in the modern military relate to either being involved with someone when there is a rank disparity or if one is in command of the other. Kira and Odo are, as you said, in the Bajoran militia, so who knows what their regulations say about fraternization. As for Bashir and Dax, they are of similar rank (only being one rank apart from each other) and since neither was in command of the other (he was a medical officer and she was a counselor, which oddly isn't in the medical corps, it seems) so their relationship was of a type usually considered acceptable in the military.
** Starfleet officers are prone to wasting huge amounts of resources on purely personal business on an alarmingly frequent basis, based only on personnel friendships. In modern times, it would be like taking a modern Cruiser on a trip to retrieve a friend's (Who you haven't seen since college) shoes he lost gambling, burning through millions of dollars in fuel, firearms, and lives spent. Once you cross lines like that, quid pro quo and playing favorites with your subordinate friends seems like a trivial affair.
** This is specifically addressed in one episode. Worf and Jadzia - Worf failed to complete a mission because he couldn't leave his injured wife in danger like that, resulting in the death of the agent they were originally sent to retrieve from behind enemy lines. Sisko specifically berated Worf for that, even saying Worf would probably never get a command of his own now. Whether that was a violation of Starfleet policy on Sisko's part in assigning the two of them or something the officers were simply expected to compensate for is unclear. In Worf's defense, he ''nearly'' does do it.
*** Sisko didn't assign them the mission, Kira did and given that she's Bajoran Militia, she may not have seen a problem with sending them together. Anyway, their mission wasn't originally to retrieve the Cardassian guy, it was just to collect a message from him, so there may not have been any issue with sending a couple out together to basically listen for radio for a while and fly back.
** Given that Starfleet vessels are often called upon to travel to unexplored regions for years at a time, regs on fraternization are likely much looser than modern militaries - it's one thing to spend months at sea with occasional calls, mail, and the odd visit home to visit with loved ones, it's another to be hundreds if not thousands of light-years from home, with potentially little ability for real time communication. The crews on those ships become families. And we even see it in ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'', when Kirk officiates a wedding between two officers, where there's no mention of one of them being transferred off. So if the regs are relaxed for the frontier explorers, they're probably equally relaxed for station duty, as there's probably a uniform rulebook.
*** Pure fanon, but for that reason I tend to limit prosecutable fraternization in my fanfics to "dating your direct superior". Dating or marrying somebody in another department is apparently perfectly acceptable, as evidenced by Miles and Keiko (aboard the ''Enterprise'' Miles was in engineering or operations depending on whom transporter operators report to, while Keiko was probably in the science department since that's the logical place for a botanist). By the same token, Worf was [=DS=]9 strategic operations officer (tactical) and Jadzia was head of the science department (although why they would send a science officer to extract a defector is beyond me). Tom and B'Elanna? Tactical and engineering.
** Alternative theory: Starfleet regulations were written, at least in part, by Vulcans. They never saw any need for a rule against fraternization, because a Vulcan would never allow emotional attachment to a fellow officer to affect their decision making. And since none of the other species who make up the Federation want to admit they're less qualified for leadership than the Vulcans are, they have to act like fraternization is no big deal for them, either.

[[folder: Is Star Trek universe overspecialized]]
* Bajorans are painted as largely agrarian. Ferengi are painted as overly obsessed with profit. Klingons are painted as overly obsessed with being a warrior. These are all stages of evolution below that of a society capable of reaching advanced levels of scientific and technological achievement big enough to have a space empire.
** In Klingon society, to be a rocket scientist would be too nerdy to be respected and considered honorable. With Ferengi, a society driven solely by capitalist interest would never reach the space age. It's true that space exploration is now shifting to the private industry but those corporations are being funded by starry-eyed entrepreneurs. The Bajorans, as some primitive third world religion-based expy, just seems a little too primitive and reminds me of the times of King David in the Old Testament or something.
*** Remember that the Ferengi are explicitly stated to have bought their warp drive technology from the Breen rather than developed it on their own.
*** Depending on the story line, the Klingons have been depicted as an overly simplistic race of near-psychotic warriors, or as a diverse and rich people. In the original series, they were an analogue for the Soviet Union, and were more or less shown as an appropriately well-rounded species. Film/StarTrekVITheUndiscoveredCountry carried on that tradition and showed them to be lovers of fine art and philosophy who mostly set aside their pride and sued for peace with the Federation when they needed its help. ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' and ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' flanderized them in to the obsessively ProudWarriorRace with a corrupt and complacent government that most people knew them as. ''[[Series/StarTrekEnterprise Enterprise]]'', to its credit (a phrase that this troper feels dirty using), tried to rectify this by having a Klingon defense attorney give a speech lamenting the loss of the finer points of Klingon society to the overly glorified warrior caste.
*** But even in TNG and [=DS9=], although I agree that the Klingon were flanderized, it it’s still clear that not all Klingon are warriors, and that there are Klingon scientists, engineers, merchants, etc. Besides, what constitutes a “warrior” in the Klingon culture may be a matter of subjectivity, it’s seems that they have a lot of warrior ritual and a warrior base culture but, other than “act like warrior” you can do any profession you like unless you’re in a ship.
** As for the Bajorans, their planet spent 60 years being exploited of all it's natural resources, and then the Cardassians all but salted the earth when they left. If they can't feed their population, they soon won't ''have'' a population. All of their weapons got turned into plowshares and they started farming in hopes of growing enough food to feed their people. Besides, their society has already been stated to have been insular before the Occupation anyway, with them eschewing colonies and exploration in preference to staying on their home world, despite having developed the technology to sail between Bajor and Cardassia before humans discovered fire.
** One episode had then Kai Winn attempt to renege on an agreement to farmers leasing them soil reclamators to make food so she could instead use the reclamators to produce cash-crops for export. Ignoring planetary food concerns for the star trek equivalent of Tobacco and Cotton? The farmers were understandably angered but due to budget only about a dozen freedom-fighters-turned-farmers-and-back were shown instead of the entire province worth of people. Other provinces were implied, but not shown.
*** In other episodes Industrial sized Replicators were mentioned. Some were given to the Bajorans and more to the Cardassian Union. Those would be the star trek equivalent of factories.
** Remember that with the Klingons, for the most part, we ''only'' ever saw soldiers. We saw a doctor or two and some engineers and diplomats, but almost every Klingon on screen was a soldier. We do see the lawyer trying to extradite Worf, who considers the courtroom his battleground. The expanded universe does show that there are many Klingon professions that are honorable but not as much as warriors: artists are the most common. When it comes to things like agrarian duties and other menial tasks, Klingons actually have a number of races that they conquered as part of their empire that do much of the work.
*** With as much as Klingons love opera, they must hold their species' Rossinis and Bizets in high regard...
*** Yeah, but somehow they probably treat them as warrior-bards or something (just as the lawyer in "Rules of Engagement" frames himself as a kind of warrior of jurisprudence, in order to stay on brand). A sanitation worker could probably be a noble occupation provided that they work in "warrior" lingo somehow.
** Its also worth remembering that the Expanded Universe is not even close to being official canon. ''On-screen'' what we see is the Klingon lawyer in the episode ''Judgement'' telling Captain Archer that the other professions such as artist and teacher ''were'' considered honorable but the warrior class has now completely superseded them. Given how we see 95% of Klingons act by the 24th century it is clear that he was right.
** Most warrior societies have different definitions of what really constitutes a warrior and/or other honorable jobs, as for example Vikings held Poets is very high regard and Odin was also the god of poetry (after all, you need a talented guy to say all the brave stuff you did, probably that time's equivalent of a publicist) and in Feudal Japan Buddhist monks were considered untouchable holy men that nor even a powerful Samurai could order their death (obviously there would be some exceptions but was still somewhat of a taboo to kill a monk). For what we see on-screen lawyers are very well respected in Klingon society so is possible that Klingons consider the way they fight things in court something similar to be a warrior.

[[folder: Who's responsible for the Maquis?]]
* WebSite/SFDebris brought up an interesting headscratcher regarding the Maquis. There are two possible scenarios:
** 1. The Maquis (and by extension, the rest of the Demilitarized Zone residents who have been left high and dry on the wrong side of the border) are still Federation citizens. And yet they take actions against the Cardassians. This would create a war.
** 2. The Maquis are no longer Federation citizens (as was implied by dialogue in the episode "Journey's End", specifically Picard's admonition "I want to make absolutely sure that you understand the implications of this agreement. By giving up your status as Federation citizens, any future request you or your people make to Starfleet will go unanswered. You will be on your own and under Cardassian jurisdiction.") And yet the Federation attempts to protect them, which would eventually create a war.
*** This is probably where it all went wrong. Picard managed a sensible compromise (or as sensible as was possible under the circumstances), keep your citizenship and leave, or stay and become Cardassian citizens. That is straight forward enough; clearly when it came time for Federation Ambassadors to formalize that someone back-pedaled, took a clear-cut compromise and created a quagmire because it seemed "nicer".
*** Memory Alpha pretty much puts "[[http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Journey%27s_End_%28episode%29#Background_information Journey's End]]" as what gave the Maquis their start. Sure that Gul ''said'' the Cardassians would leave them alone. But the Central Command has a populace under a resource crunch. The Obsidian Order won't like non-Cardassians living in their space, being {{absolute xenophobe}}s and {{statesec}}. The native American colonists got roughed up after that Gul was [[ReassignedToAntarctica probably]] [[MakeItLookLikeAnAccident removed]] from command, perhaps they got kicked off the planet. Any ones who escaped told their fellow DMZ colonists that "those damn Cardies" are not to be trusted. The Obsidian Order and Central Command found a distraction: "That Federation is sending colonists to the worlds we promised you!" [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Gee thanks]] Captain Picard!
* Based on my understanding, the Maquis are largely made from the colonists in the Demilitarized Zone. Some colonies were part of the planet-swapping deal made with the Cardassians (like the afore-mentioned Native Americans), while others were simply the original colonies which were presumably forced to disarm (since it's called a "demilitarized zone"). Some people were forced to move, and some opted to relinquish their Federation citizenship in favor of staying, while others didn't have those problems since they weren't part of the planet swap. However, there was still a massive sense of solidarity between the assorted colonies, which got especially hot when the Cardassians started causing problems and the Federation wasn't exactly quick to respond.
** Well, there were the DMZ colonists. And a number of Bajoran nationals (IE with Bajoran citizenship) as well as some Bajorans who might have had Federation citizenship because of Star Fleet service (like Ro Laren) or because they were living on Federation colonies during the Occupation and had "assimilated." And then there were a number of former Starfleet officers. Some of them were retired and had served in the Cardassian War but most of them, even the vets, were still in service. These were people like Chakotay whose citizenship was probably questionable given that he was considered a "terrorist" by his own government (he was definitely a Federation national). Some of the DMZ colonists might have technically been made Cardassian citizens by the treaty, but this point was never clarified, as the question of whether Federation citizens who joined the Maquis lost their citizenship (though I suspect that it was a matter of waiting and seeing whether the rebellion could be put down peacefully or if the Feds would eventually have had to use brute force, if the Cardies and the Jem'hadar didn't beat them to it in the later seasons. Also, these points about citizenship were never clear because the Treaty was [[FridgeBrilliance that badly written]].
*** I'll go a little further and blame the Federation Council for approving such an ill-conceived treaty. It was made clear that conditions were deteriorating toward a breaking point as early as [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration TNG]]'s ''The Wounded''. Granted, at that point it seemed more likely that the result would be armed conflict between the two governments, but conflict ''was'' inevitable. ''The Wounded'' was written during the era of Roddenberry's ideal humanity, so it really stood out that seasoned Starfleet officers were still carrying around the trauma of their wartime experiences--trauma that expressed itself as racism and paranoia. Many of the officers who defected to the Maquis might have done so in part for an opportunity to fight the Cardassians, with a convenient cause to rally around.

* There is suspicion that Kasidy sold medical supplies to the Maquis. Odo wants an illegal search to gather evidence.
--> Sisko: You can't do an illegal search on a Federation citizen.
--> Odo: She ceased to be a Federation citizen when she helped the Maquis.
** Holy Patriot Act, Batman. Fed citizens have inalienable rights, but any policeman, even a foreign policeman can cancel your citizenship and rights on '''suspicion???'''
** Odo also has a bit of a history of Orwellian beliefs so i'm not surprised he acts that way.
** In addition, in "The Maquis, Part II", Admiral Necheyev confirmed that Maquis are still Federation citizens. I am inclined take her word over Odo's.
** Odo's been well-established as basically a fascist who is constantly annoyed at the rights the Federation gives its citizens (and criminals). (Probably due to being trained by Cardassian security services.) His line there is consistent with his characterization-- and him obeying Sisko's orders on the matter, despite his personal opinion, is also.

* One line that always intrigued me is Eddington's post hoc lament "This wasn't supposed to happen. We were winning. The Cardassian Empire was falling into chaos. The Maquis colonies were going to declare themselves an independent nation." I wonder what this unfulfilled nation-building plan looked like? If the Maquis have already renounced their Federation citizenship like the colonists of Dorvan V did, declaring themselves independent would seem rather redundant. Or is it that declaration of nationhood that we should focus on -- an assertion that this is not just a contested space, but a fully-fledged, recognized power with treaties and boundaries of its own?
** I think he meant something like "declare ourselves, and have enough structure, clout, and power to be recognized and function as, an independent nation".

[[folder: If you eat at my restaurant, you'll be making a mistake you'll regret for the rest of your lives!]]
--> Joseph Sisko: Now I don't want to see anyone studying the dessert menu. If you order anything but the bread pudding soufflé, you'll be making a mistake you'll regret for the rest of your lives.
* Is that really how restaurant owners talk? Throwing a big chunk of their own product under the bus?
** When a restauranteur constructs a cult of personality for themselves, as Daddy Sisko has, that's hardly implausible. Bear in mind, this is a guy who has no respect for his ''medical'' doctor because he doesn't know the difference between Cajun and Creole food. He's a cantankerous old man with some misplaced priorities, and should be thought about in this light.
*** Of course, since no one needs money in the Federation, what does he care?
*** It's not about money, but about professional pride.
*** Then where's his professional pride about the rest of the menu?
*** This is just the dessert menu he's talking about, which may only have one or two other items on it -- some generic bowl of ice cream, an unimpressive cheese cake, and the specialty item.
** Could have just as easily been the special for the night, and he was being hyperbolic when he said it.
*** This is exactly what it is. Keep in mind, he runs a well known restaurant, and a lot of his customers are regulars. He was just engaging in some good natured humor/chit-chat with patrons who probably already know him quite well.
** Shit, maybe he'd just realized he'd forgotten to get the ingredients for anything except a bread pudding soufflé (and how does that work, by the way?) and was extemporizing to cover his ass.
*** If [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation that's the case]], then he certainly fooled Ben, who then says, [[InformedAbility "You should listen to him. The man knows his bread pudding."]]
* At least in some countries in Europe you can ask your waiter (especially in smaller restaurants) for "recommendations" or if something "is good". So while shouting owner is probably not a common sight you can get hints what to order.
** Also legendarily true in small-town greasy spoons in the US -- it's a cliche scene for a waitress to go so far as to warn customers away from menu items that aren't very good that day.
* He's hardly putting down the rest of the menu, anyway. Everything else on the dessert menu could still be great, but that night in particular the bread pudding soufflé turned out so perfect that it blows everything else out of the water. He's showing pride as a host as well as a chef by urging his customers to try the best he has on offer. It would be an insult to hospitality for anything less.

[[folder:Good Luck With That Cardassian Prison Thing!]]
* ''Deep Space Nine'' episode '''The Homecoming''': Kira and O'Brien go to break Bajoran prisoners out of jail. Good so far. They can't use the transporter to beam them up because the runabout's transporter can only beam two people at a time and there's a dozen, so beaming two of them will make the guards fire on the rest. Makes sense so far. They land, make a daring escape with six of the prisoners, get to the runabout and fly off because the guards are firing with hand weapons. Then, even though no one is shooting at them with weapons rated for ship fire, '''they raise shields and fly off leaving 6 of the prisoners to die instead of beaming them onto the ship!''' What the hell?
** They have to leave in a hurry because there are two warships coming into range; they may just not have had the time.

[[folder:Changelings Fail Kidnapping Forever]]
* Another ''Deep Space Nine'' episode, "The Adversary": It's a "find the clone among us" plot with Changelings, and we're told the Changeling is Eddington. On leading him to the brig, we find out it's actually Bashir, who was the one to convince us it was Eddington, and we find this out because we run into the real Bashir, who's penned up across from the brig. But why the hell would the Changeling put Bashir right across from where he knew they were going to put the Changeling when they found it? And if it's because that's the only brig, why would he leave the door open??
** It wasn't a brig. It was regular crew quarters with a forcefield around it.
** In addition, the door wasn't open - by "coincidence" Julian happened to release the forcefield when the rest of the crew were imprisoning Eddington.

[[folder: A bit quick to profile there]]
* In ''Field of Fire'' why is Ezri so quick to assume that the murderer must be targeting people who are laughing in their photos? For that matter, why is she so quick to assume that it was a Vulcan murderer? For all she knows it could have just as easily been a professional from a completely different species who had been sent after specific targets.
** And the heck of it is, ''she was right.'' Of course, it wasn't just her coming to that conclusion; Joran helped quite a bit.
** That was probably what they meant to imply: that with Joran's mind brought to the forefront, Ezri had essentially imbued herself with the instincts of a killer. Not just a killer, actually; a person who is willing and able to commit murder in cold blood. She was allowing Joran's homocidal instincts to guide Ezri's psychiatric insights and the two elements working together allowed her to reach that conclusion.
*** It was made extremely clear that Joran was no cold blooded killer in the episode he was created in, he was constantly described as being very angry even by his own family and killed someone out of that anger. If anything, he was the worst possible person to go to for help in finding a Vulcan killer. And the profiling is still ridiculous. In the episode it could just as easily have turned out that the people murdered were part of a covert operation that they were being killed for by the romulans or that one was a case of mistaken identity.

[[folder: Off-screen, never mentioned before war crimes?]]
* In ''Waltz'' Sisko is transporting Dukat to Earth so he can be investigated for war crimes. What war crimes? Pretty much everything we saw of him during the war suggested he was rather restrained and making an effort to be reasonable. If they're referring to his occupation of Bajor then why isn't he being tried on Bajor? In ''Duet'' Sisko had no problem allowing the clearly biased Kira[[note]]who had no experience in criminal investigations either[[/note]] investigate a man pretending to be a Cardassian war criminal.
** I'd assumed "investigated for war crimes" was code for "tie him up in enough red tape 'preparing' for a trial that he can safely be imprisoned without charges until the war is over".
*** That sort of thing usually got at least some discussion on the show, even if it was just to state that this was the least bad option. Even if we assume that a de facto imprisonment was the unstated goal, it still doesn't explain why he wasn't handed over to Bajor. There a conviction and execution would be guaranteed. It feels like the writers thought that Dukat was getting too popular.
*** That guaranteed execution might be part of why the Federation would have been reluctant to hand him over to the Bajorans...
** There's also a big difference between what we saw of Dukat, as viewers, and how much the Federation knows. We know that he was actually pretty restrained because we saw it happen, but the Federation would realistically need to carry out an investigation to sort things out, which is what they were doing now that they had him in custody. Plus, I'm sure "investigating" Dukat's role in the Dominion War is, in part, a way of trying to get him to cooperate and provide them with valuable intelligence.
** Dukat was the Cardassian head of state who presided over the Dominion slaughter of the Maquis, which very likely included the children and other non-combatants that happened to be in the DMZ at the time--and we ''have'' seen children in Maquis camps. To do so, Dominion forces, acting as agents of the Cardassian Union, violated a legal demilitarized zone. Also, assuming that the rules of war in the Star Trek universe are similar to those in the real world, he could also be charged with waging a war of aggression in violation of international law (in this case, the peace treaty between the Federation and the Cardassian Union), and waging an unprovoked war. Also, there was that little matter of trying to destroy the Bajoran star system by blowing up its sun, which, besides killing the entire population of Bajor, would have obliterated a joint Federation, Klingon, and Romulan fleet without provocation. That makes at least six war crimes, including attempted genocide, that he is directly responsible for. Add the above his treatment of the Bajorans during the Occupation, and Dukat is one of the worst war criminals in Star Trek history.
*** And in spite of this, Dukat's actor (Marc Alaimo) says he always thought Dukat was the good guy, and raised a "my character wouldn't do that" objection when the time came to assault Kai Winn's errand boy/adviser, very late in the Pah Wraith storyline.
*** With no mention ever made of children casualties (either in the episode where it's revealed that they were defeated or the episode where Dukat was being transported) that doesn't seem likely. Attempting to blow up the Bajoran system would be a possibility, though probably not the fleets since they're obviously war vessels in a time of war.
*** The fleet probably could have gotten away because they had warp drives, but yeah, Dukat's kind of a dick.
*** Okay, they never actually ''mention'' dead children but, really, did you really expect that they would? We know the Dominion has no issue with committing genocide (since they nearly blew up Bajor's sun) and we saw in Blaze of Glory that there were families and children among the Maquis, AND they were being pursued by trigger-happy Jemhadar. Fortunately Sisko and Eddington got them out, but do you really think the Dominion would have spared the noncombatants if they hadn't arrived in time?
** I think it's fairly obvious that, whatever Dukat is being charged with, the real goal is to extract some measure of justice for the Bajoran occupation. The reason the trial is being held on Earth rather than Bajor is for two reasons: First, because Bajor is far too close to the front lines and holding Dukat's trial there is just asking for the Dominion to try and rescue or assassinate him. Taking Dukat to Earth makes it harder for the Dominion to get to him. Second, because the Feddies ''really, really, really'' want the Bajorans to join the Federation. Holding the trial on Earth gives the Feddies another chance to show the Bajorans how awesome the Federation is by showing off their greatest success, Utopian Earth.
** Also international courts are rarely located in the country were the crimes were committed, cases like Ruanda and Cambodia were judged in La Hay for example.

[[folder:Split Up For Unnecessary Danger]]
* In ''Empok Nor'' ''why'' does O'Brien keep telling his subordinates to split up? It's pretty foolish the first time, the second it's downright idiotic after the Cardassian soldier makes it clear what's going to happen. He doesn't need them working at the same time and there's nothing stopping them from moving as a group to fix one thing and then the next.
** It's probably just ingrained habit. Starfleet personnel are expected to be one-man repair teams in most circumstances, so he sends them off each to a job. O'Brien's basically just suffering from a relaxing of wartime reflexes caused by serving seven years on the nice, big, relatively safe (aside from that week's disaster) flagship of the fleet. He probably wouldn't have done the same thing later on when he's back in war-mode.
** O'Brien says out-loud later that Garek was right to pursue the crazy Cardassians from the get-go and he made a mistake trying to repair the comm equipment faster than the Cardassians could kill them. Presumably, he includes the splitting-up as part of the mistake.

[[folder:Handing [=DS=]9 Back To The Cardassians]]
* At the end of Season 5, knowing that the Federation cannot hope to hold [=DS=]9 against the Dominion, they abandon the station, and Gul Dukat takes it over peacefully. However, they had made a point of having the Bajorans sign a non-aggression pact with the Dominion, which allowed the Bajorans to work out a deal with the Dominion similar to the one they had with the Federation. The question is, why did the Bajorans let the Dominion take over the station, when they could have simply had Kira assume control, and declare that [=DS=]9 was now a solely Bajoran station? The Dominion had shown that they kept their word, and it's unlikely they would have broken it just to take Deep Space Nine, given that it would undo all the hard work they did before the war to isolate the Federation and the Klingons. And to boot, they could charge Dominion ships docking fees.
** That would have required much more leverage, which the Bajorans simply didn't have. The Dominion keeps its word...to a point. They kept their word to the Bajorans because they had nothing to gain from breaking it. Controlling [=DS=]9 means the Dominion can control access to the wormhole. If the Bajorans had tried to seize the station the Dominion would likely have tried to take it from them. By force.
** "We're a Bajoran station now." "We have 20,000 photon torpedoes that say you're not." "Uh. Welcome home!" The Bajorans only have a weak military at best, probably don't even have the trained personnel available to run [=DS=]9's (Federation-installed) weapons platforms, and with few exceptions are basically pacifists-at-heart. Kira's not stupid.
** This brings up an interesting related question: During the periods that the station is run by Starfleet personnel, why is it called Deep Space Nine? The designation 'Deep Space Nine' doesn't seem to make any sense from a Bajoran perspective. 'Deep Space' seems to be a Starfleet station designation for Federation facilities that are located outside Federation territory, but the station itself belongs to Bajor, so Starfleet naming conventions shouldn't apply to it?  Surely the Bajoran government wouldn't describe something that is located inside their solar system as being in deep space.
*** Convenience, I suppose. Apparently the Bajorans didn't want to keep the Cardassian name so they had to call it something else. "Deep Space Nine" is as good a name as any. Especially since the station is still run by Starfleet, despite being nominally owned by the Bajorans. If the Bajorans had ever decided to pass on Federation membership and ordered the Feddies out of their space, they probably would have come up with another new name for the station. EDIT: Oh and also, despite their occasional brave boasts the Bajorans are quite aware that their continued freedom is dependent on the Federation's protection. Calling the station "Deep Space Nine" makes it a visible symbol of Federation power and warns any enterprising conquerors to steer clear of Bajor and the wormhole unless they want to go toe-to-toe with Starfleet.
*** The station was legally owned by Bajor but they leased the trashed former terok nor to the UFP's starfleet command to run hence the starfleet starbase name it has. Bajor still has it's own staff there but the day to day ops is done by starfleet staff. When starfleet pulled out and the Dominion took over management Kira opted to keep the ufp name while Dukat decided to restore it's old Cardassian name.
*** This arrangement was created along with a plan to have Bajor formally join the Federation. Bajor was actually due to join the Federation in season 5 (it was only put on hold due to Sisko's visions). In the relaunch novel series, Bajor joins the Federation after the Dominion War ends. Either way, once Bajor joined the Federation, [=DS9=] would become an official Federation facility anyway.

[[folder:Meridian: the disappearing planet]]
* If Meridian's population was facing extinction when the planet stopped switching between dimensions, why didn't they evacuate? There were under 30 inhabitants, it would have been easy to get them to [=DS=]9.
** Possibly an issue with taking them away from the planet? If your body is used to dimension-hopping and you force it to stop, there's a chance it could have nasty unpredictable side effects i.e. suppose you take them away from Meridian, but their bodies shift dimensions anyway. The next time they shift back, they could appear in open space. With the limited time before the next shift, the crew wasn't likely to solve that particular problem before the planet vanished again.
** They just like their planet and the lives they have on it. They also seem to genuinely like the other dimension, they'd just like a little more time in this one. In the episode, one of them wants to leave, but changes his mind when he realizes his people will need him on the planet. There's no technobabble involved.
*** Speaking from a practical point of view, you could suggest moving to another planet for the next sixty years, and moving back onto this one during its next short appearance, that would only leave the eventual complete disappearance as a problem. But maybe they like the other dimension a little too well to stay away from it for that long?
** When they are in the "other dimension", they exist as consciousness only, and do not age. With only brief periods in our universe, they effectively have MUCH longer lives than they would have otherwise. This would be a big draw to a lot of people.

[[folder: Stealing the Bear]]
* This is a minor point, but in ''In The Cards'', Nog has to steal Dr. Bashir's stuffed bear from Leeta. Why did he wait till she was asleep to break in and take it? Nog's a character who's debut appearance took place as he was burglarizing the station's assayer's office. Granted, he's not a very successful thief, but being Quark's nephew, he should have picked up a little trade craft since then. Breaking in while she was sleeping just adds a really, really creepy vibe to that scene.
** If the bear is present when she goes to bed and missing when she wakes up she's not going to suspect that someone broke in and took it while she was sleeping. She's going to assume she just lost it somewhere. But if she comes home from work and something is mysteriously missing from her quarters, common sense would indicate a burglary and an investigation would reveal that someone hacked the lock.
** Indeed, that's how the scene plays out at the end of the episode: Leeta has her quarters torn apart, frustrated at "losing" the bear with no indication that she thinks it was stolen.
** In that case, on a station where everyone has access to replicators, why not simply break in while she's at work and replace it with an identical bear? Nog stands less chance of being caught if she thinks she's misplaced the bear, but even less if Leeta doesn't have any reason to think she's lost anything at all.
*** It's implied to take more than sticking something in the replicator to be able to make a copy of it. Quark says he'd have to get Kira in a holosuite to be able to make a proper scan of her at one point, I think. Nog might not have the equipment or the time to make a scan of the bear and replicate one.

[[folder: "YouHaveFailedMe, Odo... you're hired?"]]
* In the episode "Necessary Evil", it is established Odo got his station as constable as a result of doing a task for Gul Dukat, which impressed him. Except the end of the episode shows that Odo didn't actually solve the crime, and in fact let the real suspect get away. So what, did [[ANaziByAnyOtherName Dukat]] just decide to give him another chance after a complete failure?
** Dukat might be ANaziByAnyOtherName, but he doesn't ''think'' he's one, and Odo had a good rapport with the Bajorans. Since standard Cardassian practice was to execute ten random Bajorans, Dukat probably decided it would help his "benevolent overlord" image to have an authority that would be considered more fair. Even though Odo didn't find the killer, Dukat knew he had the potential to be an effective constable and having him around was good for keeping the Bajorans in line without using force. (There's also a novel about this time wherein Dukat secretly obstructed the investigation because he knew it was Kira and didn't want to execute the daughter of his late mistress.)
** Also, by hiring Odo as constable, he adds a buffer layer between his men and the Bajorans. With Odo in charge of investigations, the Bajorans would likely blame Odo for anyone who is arrested and executed, since it is Odo who actually does that. What he didn't count on, however, was Odo living up to his threats of impartiality and fairness, meaning that the Bajorans came to respect and trust Odo rather than scapegoat him for the crimes committed against them.

[[folder: Worf's tiny wedding party?]]
* Does Worf not consider the crew of the ''[[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Enterprise]]'' his friends? He didn't invite them to his wedding. Not even his ''cha'Dich'', Picard. Riker invited him to ''his'' wedding.
** There are a couple interesting issues here. The [=TNG=] crew not being present could easily be explained away by the war--Starfleet just needed the ''Enterprise'' and her command staff elsewhere. It's not as easy to explain why the Rozhenkos weren't there, though the war might have also made travel between Earth and [=DS=]9 too dangerous for them to make the trip. Interestingly, the Captain Shelby who was mentioned to be in command of the starship ''Sutherland'' was an intentional reference to Elizabeth Shelby from ''Best of Both Worlds''. With ''Sutherland'' docked at the station, it seems a little rude for her not to have shown up.
*** Does Worf consider her a friend? after all Worf was far closer to Riker during ''Best of Both Worlds'' who spent the majority of the time arguing with Shelby over his jealousy and her mild insubordination. Stands to reason that, fearing he may be seen to be taking sides, Worf barely even spoke to her beyond anything that was strictly business. We certainly don't ''see'' him heavily interacting with Shelby on-screen.
*** Are we sure that it was an intentional reference to the Shelby of "Best of Both Worlds" (never given a first name in those episodes, incidentally)? Because I distinctly recall the male pronoun used in the episode, and [[http://www.chakoteya.net/ds9/531.htm this transcript]] seems to agree with me. I don't have the DVD at hand -- can somebody check the closed captioning of the DVD and see if it supports this conclusion?
*** According to my source for that factoid, [[http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/You_Are_Cordially_Invited_(episode) Memory Alpha]], Ron Moore, the writer of the episode, stated he ''was'' making a reference to Elizabeth Shelby as a bit of MythologyGag. He didn't know, however, that EU author John Ordover had been promised by the show's writers that they had no intention of using Shelby again. Since canonically making her the captain of the ''Sutherland'' would derail a ton of effort that Ordover had put into Shelby's character in his novels, I'd be willing to bet that the pronoun switch was a last minute attempt to avoid torpedoing all of Ordover's hard work.
*** One wonders, then, why not just change the name? Or was this a post-production thing, where it's easier to redub a pronoun than a longer name? In any event, there's really nothing to explain here; whoever this Captain Shelby here (who, as you'll recall, is explicitly mentioned to have some past connection to Dax, not Worf) might be, it's entirely possible that he/she is having briefings or something similar while the crew enjoys some R&R on the station.
*** That would be my guess. They probably realized the mistake so late in the production process that there wasn't any time for [=ADR=].
** If you recall the episode, the timeline of the wedding is moved up to accommodate Alexander. That's the reason.
** You know who's absence from Worf's wedding is particularly glaring (besides his parents)? Jeremy Aster from ''The Bonding''. The episode ends with him becoming a member of the House of Mogh. He is now for all intents and purposes Worf's brother. Although given how A) Worf completely lost contact with Alexander until recently and B) The House of Mogh effectively no longer exists since Worf joined the House of Martok, Jeremy may have been excommunicated in all but name. Wow, Worf. That vow to look after him clearly meant a lot to you.

[[folder:Where is the Sisko now?]]
* A couple of episodes before the finale, when Sisko has a vision of the Prophet who was his mother, she tells him that his fate is not before him but "behind him". And in the finale, when Kasidy has a vision of Sisko, he tells him that as a Prophet he will exist outside linear time, and that they might meet each other "yesterday". These bits of dialogue seem to hint that when Sisko returns from the wormhole, it will in the past. But in the end we never find out whether Sisko will ever return. So what was the point of those hints? According to Wiki/MemoryAlpha, at some point the writers considered ending the finale with a scene of Benny Russell holding a script for television series called ''Deep Space Nine'' in his hand, but that idea was nixed. Were the aforementioned lines hinting towards this ending, that Sisko might come out of the wormhole in the past, as Benny Russell?
** According to the characters page, Avery Brooks didn't like the UnfortunateImplications of a black man abandoning his family, so that line was put in to imply that he might be right back. The "or yesterday" part could be a reminder of the Prophets' existence outside time. It also allows him to show up in EU materials pretty much anywhere in the timeline.
** The Prophets are sending Sisko around dropping off objects connected to the Emissary. How else did the Prophet end up in Sarah and then in a desert planet.

[[folder:"He is ''not'' real!"]]
* In "Badda Bing, Badda Bang", Worf is unwilling to even ''consider'' the personhood of Vic Fontaine. Seems like a scorching case of AesopAmnesia, considering that he ''knows'' holograms can be sapient (Moriarity), and worked for ''7+ years'' with another artificial life form, namely Data! What the hell, Worf?
** Worf tends to not put a lot of thought into the things he says. In the episode where Bashir's genetic enhancements are discovered he vigorously defends the Federation's policy that disallows modified humans from serving in Starfleet. When Bashir asks him the obvious question "If that's true, shouldn't ''I'' have been forbidden from joining Starfleet?" Worf's only response is "You are an exception." No explanation for why Bashir is the exception, he just is. I imagine he would say the same about Data. Artificial lifeforms aren't people...except for Data. He's an exception...because he is. So there.
** Whilst I do agree with this, one point has to be asked: Does Worf ever actually acknowledge Data as alive? Or Moriarity as anything other than a malfunctioning piece of software? Because i'm thinking very hard here and I can't remember a single concrete line of dialogue to prove it.
*** I don't know about Moriarty, but Worf has repeatedly shown that he considers Data one of his friends and honored crewmates. Data is a person to Worf for sure. Other artificial lifeforms, who can say. Worf is just like that, he thinks in very broad generalities and stereotypes, and when he meets an exception to those it doesn't cause him to rethink them, he just decides that individual is an exception. It's actually a very... human... trait.

[[folder:Sisko's unhappiness with the assignment at first]]
* When Sisko and Picard meet the first time Picard notes that Sisko objected to the assignment of Commander of Deep Space Nine, and Sisko replies that he's investigating returning to Earth. Um, aren't most Starfleet assignments, especially those involving command, supposed to be given with the assumption that it will last for years and years? Deep Space Nine's first commander should be assigned with the idea that s/he will be there until Bajor joins the Federation, right? It wouldn't do for Sisko to show up and then leave a month later, right? It sends a bad message to both the Bajorans and the Starfleet staff on the station.
** I think they thought Bajor's joining the Federation would be quick, so that he could've had it both ways. They didn't realize how fucked the situation was even *before* the dominion and all that stuff.
** It's Sisko's 'nice' way of saying he thinking about quitting Star Fleet. It appears that as long as you're not actively in the middle of a shit storm, you can quit your post at any time in Star Fleet.
** Yes, he said he was thinking of returning to ''civilian'' work -- presumably leaving Starfleet.
** It's a little surprising that Picard was caught so off-guard by Sisko's feelings. Picard was invested both professionally and personally in the Bajoran situation--he says as much while he's briefing the commander--so it's odd that he hadn't reviewed the service record of the man he'd be handing off Bajor's future to; or at least had Troi do it for him. You'd think he'd recognize that a single father who'd avoided field assignments for years probably wouldn't be the best person to put in charge of a frontier outpost--or, at the very least, notice that he was technically responsible for the loss of Sisko's ship, and the deaths of his friends, colleagues, crew mates, and ''wife''.
*** Picard still has significant issues regarding Wolf 359 and the Borg, it is not unsurprising that he might be sub-consciously avoiding the issue and mentions of it. He probably doesn't even know he is doing it, but skipping over it or glossing past it would not be out of line with current thinking on [=PTSD=]. There is also Picard's natural personality trait of repressing emotions and just getting on with things to take into account too. It's just one of those horrible things that is depressingly human.

[[folder: Jennifer's Death]]
* One of the big recurring headscratchers of the TNG era was the idea of allowing families on starships assigned to exploratory missions, because those ships are still exposed significant amounts of danger. Nothing like hitting that NegativeSpaceWedgie and having a school full of children taken out in the process. However what ''really'' stands out is: Why the didn't Federation fleet that met the Borg at Wolf 359 apparently bother offloading their civilians ''before going into battle''? They had to take the time to scramble the fleet, so you'd think that they would have had plenty of time to evacuate the civilians and children. It strikes me that not only was Jennifer's death unnecessary, but had ''anyone'' in Starfleet's hierarchy had a lick of sense, it ''never would have happened in the first place''.
** Do we know where all the ships in that battle came from? It's likely that they were scattered all over the place so they might not have had time. It may have taken, say, a day to assemble the fleet, but they weren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs for the full twenty four hours; by the time they'd all detoured to the nearest star base (whether the nearest to where they started out, nearest along the way or nearest to Wolf 359), offloaded all the civilians, and then proceeded to Wolf 359 they might have missed the Borg by an hour or two or would have only been able to fight with half the fleet.
*** And yet we saw on several occasions during ''TNG'' it took ''minutes'' to evacuate non-essential personnel and civilians from ''Enterprise''-D, a ship with a standard complement of something around 1000 people (3000 max). ''Saratoga'' and other ''Miranda''-class vessels are ''significantly'' smaller than that, with a crew of only about 220-230 at most (some examples during the ''TNG'' era such as ''Lantree'' and ''Brattain'' are known canonically to have as low as two or three ''dozen''). Further, the timeline gives Starfleet at least a couple days, if not a week or more, to assemble the fleet, which consisted of ''forty'' starships. So it's pretty clear there should have been more than enough time to assemble the fleet, disembark families and non-essential crew, brief the commanders, and deploy at Wolf 359 to intercept the Borg.
*** Again, do we know where the ships were all stationed before they were assembled into a fleet? It may only take minutes to offload the civilians, but they still need to fly to a planet/star base first - they can't just shove all the civilians into a transporter and hit transport as they're flying at warp (at least not without that transwarp beaming tech from the Abrams films). Frequently the Enterprise has been the only ship in range of Earth (although I think that was mostly in the TOS era so maybe Starfleet got its act together since then) so it's not implausible that the ships were days, if not that entire week away. For easy counting let's say it was only twenty four hours and they met the Borg dead on the 24 hour mark; a ship is at planet A, which is 23 hours away from Wolf 359 at maximum warp taking the direct route; the only Federation world/star base en route (or at least the closest to the direct route) is at planet B, which is 13hours from both; this means total travel time for that ship, would be 26hours (plus five minutes to offload the civilians), which means they show up an hour after the Borg rather than an hour before. The same thing can happen even with a week to prep - if the ship is far enough out, the detour could have cost valuable time. Also, do we know how many ships had civilians on them? Maybe the ones that did were the ones that were furthest out and couldn't detour in time, while the rest who were able to get there sooner were able to offload while waiting.
*** Starfleet might have sent in non-combat ships specifically to pick up civilians and ferry them to a safe planet or starbase.
** The novelization of the episode had Jennifer Sisko being a Starfleet officer herself. Apparently she was just out of uniform and in her quarters because whatever her duties were had no relevance to a combat situation.
*** ''No relevance to a combat situation...'' This is Wolf 359! The battle for the very fate of the Federation and probably a greater part of the Alpha Quadrant. And this was no random attack, this was part of Admiral Hanson's specially assembled battle group. Is there seriously ''any'' conceivable reason why she would be out of uniform? And if so, why she would even be there in the first place if she was that irrelevant?
*** She was asleep?
** Might she have been, a la Keiko, a civilian who was nevertheless starship personnel? That justifies her being out of uniform and being on tthe ship to begin with.

[[folder: Sisko's Big Silly Destiny]]
* So Sisko's Big Important Destiny, the thing that it was important enough to subject his mother to rape-by-proxy to ensure he would be present for, was to ''tackle Dukat off a cliff''. Really, Prophets? ''Really?'' You needed TheChosenOne for that? You couldn't find a decent high school linebacker to handle that one? Or, I dunno, Nog with a phaser set to "stun"? [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries A big strong guy with a big rock?]] Heck, you're the guys who exist in all points of time simultaneously, you couldn't have arranged for someone to deal Dukat's dad a swift kick in whatever passes for nards in Cardassian physiology the day before he would have been conceived?
** Presumably the only reason Sisko is able to tackle Dukat is because he's half Wormhole Alien. If anyone else had tried to do that, Dukat's Pah-Wraith powers would've stopped them. (And if Dukat hadn't existed, the Pah-Wraiths would've simply chose someone else to seduce Kai Winn.) Admittedly it's still a stupid way to end the arc of your main character, but this would at least explain why it has to be Sisko who does it, not Nog with a phaser.
** Perhaps it had more to do with the symbolism of a Prophet('s offspring) imprisoning a Pah-Wraith as opposed to how he does it. Also, given that they are non-linear beings, there would be no point affecting Dukat himself as someone else would have taken his place and the Pah-Wraith would have only be contained for sure if it fought a Prophet.