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** Kind of ignoring the circumstances of the statement. Kira was not only in the last stages of pregnancy, so the extra hormones weren't helping, the man was planning to cut the baby out of her, a baby that wasn't even her's but actually her close friend's, after she' spent days atching her friends be murdered one after another. Had he merely shown up at the station and asked for an apology she may very well have given it to him, she had an entire episode in the first season where she learned the valuable lesson that not all Cardasians were monsters and should be punished soley for existing. Neither of them were particularily rational about the subject by that point.

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** Kind of ignoring the circumstances of the statement. Kira was not only in the last stages of pregnancy, so the extra hormones weren't helping, the man was planning to cut the baby out of her, a baby that wasn't even her's but actually her close friend's, after she' spent days atching attaching her friends be murdered one after another. Had he merely shown up at the station and asked for an apology she may very well have given it to him, she had an entire episode in the first season where she learned the valuable lesson that not all Cardasians were monsters and should be punished soley solely for existing. Neither of them were particularily particularly rational about the subject by that point.


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*** The main problem with the episode was it completely contradicted the much better season 1 episode "Duet", where Kira managed to mature past that black and white worldview and accept that the people at the bottom weren't automatically guilty. Darkness and Light was a real step backwards in both Kira's character development, and the maturity of the show as a whole.
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*** I agree; this is a simple continuity problem.
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** I agree in the abstract that Odo does not use his powers usefully very often. On those odd occasions when he forms tendrils to grab attackers, I wonder why he doesn't do it more. But do not forget that, in the grand scheme, he is a novice changeling. He was amazed to find that Laas could fly through space as this was a power well beyond his, so one can expect him to just be able to do it himself. This is an important part of his characterization -- remember that Odo is a misfit, not a demigod. Laas had centuries of practice that Odo lacked, and the Changelings in the Great Link had significantly more again.

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** I agree in the abstract that Odo does not use his powers usefully very often. On those odd occasions when he forms tendrils to grab attackers, I wonder why he doesn't do it more. But do not forget that, in the grand scheme, he is a novice changeling. He was amazed to find that Laas could fly through space as this was a power well beyond his, so one can can't expect him to just be able to do it himself. This is an important part of his characterization -- remember that Odo is a misfit, not a demigod. Laas had centuries of practice that Odo lacked, and the Changelings in the Great Link had significantly more again.
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** Um, "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" was eight episodes earlier than "Chimera."
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[[folder: State-sponsored murder has no consequences]]

* In ''Armageddon Game'' the T'Lani and Kellerun decide to help each other bury all knowledge of a biological weapon by killing everyone involved in dismantling it, including Bashir and O'Brien. Ignoring the fact that they thought they could murder two officers from the regional superpower they then try to murder Sisko and Dax when they attempt to rescue the two. By this point it's clear that at least an important Federation officer is aware of the attempted murder and the two races could reasonably infer that his officers would know where he went and what his suspicions were. Did they ''really'' think that they could just cover this up too? Were they really certain that the Federation wouldn't consider retaliation? For that matter their motives make no sense. They offer to let Sisko and Dax go if they hand over Bashir and O'Brien because they just want to kill anyone who had knowledge of the weapon. If they really can't trust the Federation to never make use of the weapon then murder won't change anything, the Federation easily has enough resources and expertise to make its own.
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** Diplomatic immunity?
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** Kidnapping is generally faster than dealing with red tape, even the emergency services.
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[[folder: As long as it's all a game laws don't matter]]

* In ''Move Along Home'' the Wadi force Kira, Sisko, Dax and Bashir to be game pieces in Quark's game, at times making them reasonably believe that their lives are in danger. At the end of the episode Sisko starts to call them on this before Odo advises him to get the full story from Quark. Even though Quark did unwittingly help cause it that doesn't change the fact that the Wadi abducted several officers. So are we supposed to feel that as long as Quark gets yelled at and the Wadi explain that they never had the four in real danger it makes the crime go away? Would Sisko tolerate it if they did this again?
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[[folder: Jerk refuses to help? No higher authorities.]]

* In the episode ''Babel'' the station has been completely shut down by an old Bajoran-engineered virus that not only causes aphasia but also seems to be lethal if untreated. Kira manages to find a doctor on Bajor who might have some knowledge of it but the moment she brings it up he cuts off communications. Her response is to kidnap him and force him to help them find a cure. It never once occurs to anyone to contact the Bajoran government, explain the situation (including the many infected Bajorans) and ask them to send him to help? For that matter, couldn't the Bajoran government threaten the doctor with prosecution over his negligence? Is force and deliberately infecting him really the first thing that goes through Kira's mind?
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** It's hardly uncommon in Real Life. A person or a group of people feel (and might be entirely correct in doing so) that they have been victimized and so any action they take is justified while any action against them is not[[hottip:*: Please no inserting RL examples, let's just say that they may exist depending on your viewpoint and leave it at that]]. In the eyes of many Bajorans what happened was either entirely justified or forced to happen by the Cardassians.
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*** Simply because the basic external design is 100 years old doesn't mean the Rotarran is a century behind in technology. The Klingons are really fond of that design and seem to upgrade everything under the hood so it can fight against 24th century ships. They are either still building new ones or they're upgrading them the same way the Federation upgraded Mirandas and Excelsiors to be a match for Dominion ships. Another important question is whether the Rotarran is a B'rel-class scout or a K'vort-class cruiser; the latter is larger, better armed and can probably take more of a beating. As for why not command from a more powerful and distinctive warship, it could be that if the Dominion knew Martok were on the only Negh'var in the fleet they would make it a priority target, whereas if there are scores of Birds of Prey in any engagement it's much harder to identify which one Martok is on. It keeps the Dominion on its toes: if they get a report that a squadron of Birds of Prey is going to attack some depot, they don't know if its a bunch of hotheads or the General and won't know how to properly allocate defenses. Contrast that with if they saw a Sovereign-class coming they'd know it was Picard.
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** Regarding his crew that keeps ending up filled with rookies, I can think of at least three reasons why it keeps happening: 1) He got out of a Dominion prison camp after being replaced by a Changeling, so he hadn't yet re-earned the trust of Klingon veterans yet (backed up by the fact that we only see his crew after he was recently released), 2) he really ''is'' a good trainer, general or not, and one of his duties is to train rookies simply because he's the best at it (admittedly this has little proof), or 3) Gowron doesn't want to see him get too popular and so keeps sending him inexperienced crews to hinder his progress (this one's especially backed up by Gowron's behavior near the end of the series).

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** Regarding his crew that keeps ending up filled with rookies, I can think of at least three reasons why it keeps happening: 1) He got out of a Dominion prison camp after being replaced by a Changeling, so he hadn't yet re-earned the trust of Klingon veterans yet (backed up by the fact that we only see his crew after he was recently released), 2) he really ''is'' a good trainer, general or not, and one of his duties is to train rookies simply because he's the best at it (admittedly this has little proof), or 3) Gowron doesn't want to see him get too popular and so keeps sending him inexperienced crews to hinder his progress (this one's especially backed up by Gowron's behavior near the end of the series).
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** Regarding his crew that keeps ending up filled with rookies, I can think of at least three reasons why it keeps happening: 1) He got out of a Dominion prison camp after being replaced by a Changeling, so he hadn't yet re-earned the trust of Klingon veterans yet (backed up by the fact that we only see his crew after he was recently released), 2) he really ''is'' a good trainer, general or not, and one of his duties is to train rookies simply because he's the best at it (admittedly this has little proof), or 3) Gowron doesn't want to see him get too popular and so keeps sending him inexperienced crews to hinder his progress (this one's especially backed up by Gowron's behavior near the end of the series).
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** Original Poster: But that's exactly my point. Since the Cardassians have ''already'' promised that they released all their Bajoran prisoners, the Federation and Bajor should take a more hard-line stance when Cardassia attempts to negotiate with the release of (allegedly nonexistent) Bajoran prisoners. Their governments should say, ''"What'' Bajoran prisoners? Your government already agreed to release ''all'' of them, and we demand that you live up to that agreement."

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** He probably wasn't thinking that far into it, having lived with years of pent-up PSTD, guilt, and self-hatred driving him into [[SuicideByCop his plan]]. Most likely he thought that with his CardCarryingVillain persona, the Bajorans wouldn't bother to conduct a thorough investigation. Although if he ''had'' survived, it's probable that he would have been able to publicly explain his actions, which may still have gone some way to achieving his goal anyhow.

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** He probably wasn't thinking that far into it, having lived with years of pent-up PSTD, PTSD, guilt, and self-hatred driving him into [[SuicideByCop his plan]]. Most likely he thought that with his CardCarryingVillain persona, the Bajorans wouldn't bother to conduct a thorough investigation. Although if he ''had'' survived, it's probable that he would have been able to publicly explain his actions, which may still have gone some way to achieving his goal anyhow.



*** Or having checked, he might expect them to believe that the Cardassians had lied. After all, it's not like the Cardassians were above lying to save face on, well, ''just about anything''. If it hadn't been for them [[spoiler:finding the records which clearly showed that Gul Darheel had been on Cardassia when the accident happened, therefore couldn't have Kalinora syndrome, therefore the man in the cell couldn't be Darheel]] then they might well have assumed that the Cardassians were trying to create an alibi.

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*** Or having checked, he might expect them to believe that the Cardassians had lied. After all, it's not like the Cardassians were above lying to save face on, well, ''just about anything''. If it hadn't been for them [[spoiler:finding the records which clearly showed that Gul Darheel had been on Cardassia when the accident happened, therefore couldn't have Kalinora syndrome, therefore the man in the cell couldn't be Darheel]] then they might well have assumed that the Cardassians were trying to create an alibi. alibi.
**** In fact, after receiving that information from Dukat, [=DS9=]'s crew ''did'' assume that it was forged-- at least, ''Kira'' certainly did. It was the dermal regenerative Marritza was taking that tipped Bashir off.
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** Because he feels a Bird-of-Prey is a proper vessel for a Klingon warrior, far better than the "luxury liner" of a ''Vor'cha-'' or ''Negh'Var-'' class attack cruiser. When he was promoted to the liaison officer between the Klingons and the Federation, he declined Sisko's offer of quarters aboard the station, saying, "I will keep my flag aboard the ''Rotarran.'' At least then I'll feel like I'm still in the war." In other words: It keeps him grounded. I must admit, though, that you're right that it doesn't make much sense from a strategic perspective. Three or four well-placed photon torpedoes would destroy the general's flagship.
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[[folder:The General's Kia-of-Prey]]

* For much of the second half of the series, General Martok is hanging around the station in one capacity or another, and has command of the ''Rotarran'', a Bird of Prey, which eventually becomes his flagship as he is given command of the Federation-Klingon fleet. Wait, what? Why is a tiny, hundred-year-old skirmisher with a crew of cowards and rookies 1) appropriate for a General, 2) appropriate to act as flagship once said General has been given a proper command again, or 3) a sensible choice of vessel for a man whose family apparently ''owns a private'' attack cruiser, a powerful modern vessel representing the best of Klingon ship design?
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*** Laas can also turn into fire, so that may be how he keeps warm in his space-dwelling form. And maybe he just held his breath. If he can travel faster than light then anything is possible!
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** Not to mention, this is playing off of real-world incidents. For example, the Soviet Union held on to German POWs for years after the war ended. There's also persistant (though entirely apocryphal) stories about American POWs still being secretly held by Vietnam or China after the Vietnam War.
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*** Or having checked, he might expect them to believe that the Cardassians had lied. After all, it's not like the Cardassians were above lying to save face on, well, ''just about anything''. If it hadn't been for them [[spoiler:finding the records which clearly showed that Gul Darheel had been on Cardassia when the accident happened, therefore couldn't have Kalinora syndrome, therefore the man in the cell couldn't be Darheel]] then they might well have assumed that the Cardassians were trying to create an alibi.
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** Actually, this is totally in character with Cardassian society, military, and morality. The Central Command only admits to crimes when it's been caught. It's no surprise to me that years after the Occupation ended, the Cardassians could still be holding Bajorans prisoner. They're Cardassians, the Space Nazis of ''Star Trek.''
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** WordOfGod is that Cardassians have both reptilian and mammalian characteristics. It's also implied that Ancient Bajorans visited Cardassia in lightships before Cardassians were warp-capable, so modern Cardassians ''might'' already have some Bajoran heritage they just don't know about or won't admit.


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*** Maybe the surgery is a more modern procedure that replaced a less sanitary, natural method of implantation?
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** It's never stated this is the only form of interplanetary travel ancient Bajor had access to. In fact, we really don't know all that much about Bajor's tech level before the Occupation, but they probably were not pre-warp at the time. Another episode featuring a lightship implied that although the tech was ancient, Bajorans were still using them 200-300 years before the series, even though they were obsolete by then, just like O'Brien likes to shoot the rapids in a primitive kayak when he could easily simulate a more modern, powered vehicle in the holosuites. As for the manual operation of the ship? Maybe they just liked it that way. They might have brought portable computers like lap tops on board, too, but that's just speculation. My personal theory is the ancient Bajorans launched this things up in single-use disposable rockets, like the solid-fuel boosters on the space shuttle, that could get the ships into orbit but couldn't go much further. But I also think Bajor was warp-capable and probably had at least a few off-world colonies before the Cardassians invaded, as per Picard's comments in the episode that introduced them that the Bajorans were accomplished artists and architects when humans were still ice age hunter-gatherers.

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* And speaking of "Life Support", why are Sisko and Kai Winn so mystified when Legate Turrel insists on an agreement in principle that anything of Cardassian origin left behind in the Bajoran system belongs to Cardassia? [[JustWhatItSaysOnTheTin Duh, the Cardassians just want the station!]] And the ''de facto'' control of the wormhole that comes with it!

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* And speaking of "Life Support", why are Sisko and Kai Winn so mystified when Legate Turrel insists on an agreement in principle that anything of Cardassian origin left behind in the Bajoran system belongs to Cardassia? [[JustWhatItSaysOnTheTin [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Duh, the Cardassians just want the station!]] And the ''de facto'' control of the wormhole that comes with it!it!

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** He met Laas before "Treachery, Faith and the Great River", so I'd personally like to know why Odo was concerned about freezing to death or asphyxiating in the latter episode. He knows for a fact that [[BatmanCanBreatheInSpace Changelings Can Breathe in Space]]!



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[[/folder]]** And the heck of it is, ''she was right.'' Of course, it wasn't just her coming to that conclusion; Joran helped quite a bit.
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[[folder:New Bajoran Prisoners As the Plot Demands]]

* In season 2's premiere "The Homecoming", while discussing with Dax whether he should give Kira the runabout to go rescue Li Nalas, Sisko asks, "Suppose I give her the runabout and she ''does'' rescue Li Nalas. What do I say to the Cardassians?" Dax replies, "The question is, what do ''they'' say to ''us?'' They swore they released all their Bajoran prisoners." Now, of course, Kira rescues Li, and it turns out they have a dozen ''more'' Bajoran prisoners in that prison camp on Cardassia IV, which Dukat has released, probably to save face. (Because I do ''not'' believe him when he says the Central Command was unaware of the presence of those prisoners. They're not that stupid.) So presumably all the Bajoran prisoners detained by the Cardassian government were released then and there. Yet, later that season the Cardassian government agrees to release six Bajoran prisoners in exchange for Natima Lang, Hogue and Rekelen. ''What'' Bajoran prisoners?! And then in season 3's "Life Support", we learn explicitly that Cardassia ''is'' withholding certain [[InsistentTerminology detainees]] which they hadn't previously mentioned.

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[[folder:Duh, the Cardassians just want the station]]

* And speaking of "Life Support", why are Sisko and Kai Winn so mystified when Legate Turrel insists on an agreement in principle that anything of Cardassian origin left behind in the Bajoran system belongs to Cardassia? [[JustWhatItSaysOnTheTin Duh, the Cardassians just want the station!]] And the ''de facto'' control of the wormhole that comes with it!
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** The original poster seems to have neglected this conversation towards the end of the episode:
---> '''Shel-la:''' Leaving without us?
---> '''Bashir:''' My analysis of the microbes that keep you alive showed that if you were to leave the moon, you would die...
---> '''Shel-la:''' So there ''is'' no end.
---> '''Bashir''' ''[turning to Sisko]:'' Commander, I find myself caught in a moral dilemma. As much as I'm dedicated to the preservation of life, I wonder if we shouldn't help these people end this torture...
---> '''Sisko:''' How could you do that?
---> '''Bashir:''' Anything that can be programmed can be reprogrammed. If I can disable the mechanism in these microbes, they would no longer function when someone was killed, and these people would finally be allowed to die.
---> '''Shel-la:''' You've seen our lives here. Please... it's the only solution left. Give us a way to reprogram these microbes, and it will mean the end of this war.
---> '''Kira:''' You really think the fear of death would stop the fighting? It never has in any ''other'' war.
** The following is the WhamLine here:
---> '''Shel-la:''' No-- but it will allow us to ''finally win.'' Wipe out the Nol for good.
---> ''[We cut to Bashir's astonished, disgusted reaction.]''
---> '''Shel-la:''' On this world, your disabled microbes would be the ultimate weapon, Doctor-- one that we could use to truly destroy our enemies.
** So the point here is: They didn't disable the microbes because the Ennis and the Nol-Ennis would simply use it as an excuse to finally annihilate one another. They had no interest in making peace with one another, and that's why Kai Opaka willingly stayed-- to help them begin the healing process. (In the ExpandedUniverse, the two tribes eventually [[spoiler:make peace, unify, and gain the ability to leave the moon.]])
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sorry...spelling nazi moment


**** In my opinion Worf was completly justified in taking the shot. Present day Navies "strongly encourage" everybody to keep well away in peace time. And he was at that time in combat. Anybody who approches active combat puts themselfs willingly at risk. Trying to sneak up on the cambatans is sucidal.

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**** In my opinion Worf was completly completely justified in taking the shot. Present day Navies "strongly encourage" everybody to keep well away in peace time. And he was at that time in combat. Anybody who approches approaches active combat puts themselfs themselves willingly at risk. Trying to sneak up on the cambatans combatants is sucidal.suicidal.
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**** In my opinion Worf was completly justified in taking the shot. Present day Navies "strongly encourage" everybody to keep well away in peace time. And he was at that time in combat. Anybody who approches active combat puts themselfs willingly at risk. Trying to sneak up on the cambatans is sucidal.
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** In addition, [[spoiler:the door wasn't open - by "coincidence" Julian happened to release the forcefield when the rest of the crew were imprisoning Eddington]]

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** Your point? By the very evidence you supply you seem to get the writers' point right across - that the test [[spoiler:was a BatmanGambit by the Founders to sew paranoia amongst the Federation and Klingons, while letting agents who "passed" the test go about their business without suspicion]]. The very episode in which, as you say, Sisko's father points out the fallacies in the test, was meant to indicate this very plot although it wasn't until much later that [[spoiler:they actually learned that, yes, indeed, the one who suggested the test was a changeling themselves]].

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** Your point? By the very evidence you supply you seem to get the writers' point right across - that the test [[spoiler:was a BatmanGambit by the Founders to sew sow paranoia amongst the Federation and Klingons, while letting agents who "passed" the test go about their business without suspicion]]. The very episode in which, as you say, Sisko's father points out the fallacies in the test, was meant to indicate this very plot although it wasn't until much later that [[spoiler:they actually learned that, yes, indeed, the one who suggested the test was a changeling themselves]].themselves]].
*** More evidence that it's a BatmanGambit? The Martok changeling isn't the first one to come up with the idea of blood tests -- in the episode "The Adversary", Odo notices Sisko can't be a changeling because he's bleeding. But why is Sisko bleeding? Because a changeling hurt him, knowing he'd meet up with Odo soon, and Odo, being a sharp investigator, would notice and develop the blood testing strategy. So, by the time the Martok changeling strolls onto the station, pulls out a knife, and slices his palm open, they all accept it without questioning how or why Martok knows to do such a thing -- they just assume he knows because of the intelligence shared by the only trusted person in the alpha quadrant who could have come up with the idea -- Odo.


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