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just putting this here for future editors
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'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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* The Kuzuryusen test for the Hiten Mitsurugi style is tailor made to be for Kenshin and Hiko only. It assumes the student would always be less physically developed then the master, which is the case for Kenshin and Hiko. However, has this always been the case in the history of the Hiten Mitsurugi style? What would happen if the roles were reversed and the master was lacking the physique to defeat their apprentice's Kuzuryusen? Would the student become the master without learning the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki?
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* The Kuzuryusen test for the Hiten Mitsurugi style is tailor made to be for Kenshin and Hiko only. It assumes the student would always be less physically developed then the master, which is the case for Kenshin and Hiko. However, has this always been the case in the history of the Hiten Mitsurugi style? What would happen if the roles were reversed and the master was lacking the physique to defeat their apprentice's Kuzuryusen? Would the student become the master without learning the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki?Hirameki?
**This is mentioned elsewhere, but it likely has to do with the cloak. It's weighted in such a way to constantly build strength in the current Hiko Seijuro when outside of combat. Presumably, Kenshin's master was of a similar build to Kenshin during his own training and developed his muscular build once he inherited the cloak. The real question on my mind is why, if the Hiko we are familiar with expected to die in the process of teaching the technique, did he only mention the purpose of the cloak afterwards? Under normal circumstances, Kenshin would never have known and likely buried the cloak with his master. I guess an idiot apprentice calls for an idiot master.
**This is mentioned elsewhere, but it likely has to do with the cloak. It's weighted in such a way to constantly build strength in the current Hiko Seijuro when outside of combat. Presumably, Kenshin's master was of a similar build to Kenshin during his own training and developed his muscular build once he inherited the cloak. The real question on my mind is why, if the Hiko we are familiar with expected to die in the process of teaching the technique, did he only mention the purpose of the cloak afterwards? Under normal circumstances, Kenshin would never have known and likely buried the cloak with his master. I guess an idiot apprentice calls for an idiot master.
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Added Kuzuryusen question.
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** Not to mention he deflected Aoshi's ultimate technique when it came at him from behind, so small feat, that.
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** Not to mention he deflected Aoshi's ultimate technique when it came at him from behind, so small feat, that.that.
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* The Kuzuryusen test for the Hiten Mitsurugi style is tailor made to be for Kenshin and Hiko only. It assumes the student would always be less physically developed then the master, which is the case for Kenshin and Hiko. However, has this always been the case in the history of the Hiten Mitsurugi style? What would happen if the roles were reversed and the master was lacking the physique to defeat their apprentice's Kuzuryusen? Would the student become the master without learning the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki?
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* The Kuzuryusen test for the Hiten Mitsurugi style is tailor made to be for Kenshin and Hiko only. It assumes the student would always be less physically developed then the master, which is the case for Kenshin and Hiko. However, has this always been the case in the history of the Hiten Mitsurugi style? What would happen if the roles were reversed and the master was lacking the physique to defeat their apprentice's Kuzuryusen? Would the student become the master without learning the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki?
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<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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**Three things: Dynamics of their ultimate moves, the conditions they are in, and the properties their moves enact.
**First, though Kenshin's Amakakeru is powerful, Enishi's comes by the advantage of surprise and tactical usage- If Enishi can read his opponent so well that he is able to evade that quick and that spry enough, they are the ones who fell into the trap.
**Second, though they are ultimate techniques, they do require their wielders to be in top shape. According to the imagery of the manga, Kenshin was in a state of doubt; according to the dynamics of the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki, one's will to live and their compassion for others must be so strong and pure that not even doubt or fear will get them to waver, and it is this that allows one to perform the Amakakeru without flaw. Kenshin was so wracked with worrying about Kaoru that it ended up getting him losing his mental edge in battle. Enishi was able to exploit this flawed Amakakeru and strike back.
**Third, one ultimate technique is no better than the rest. It is up to their users to apply them to their fullest and greatest effect. In the symbolism of their thematics, Kenshin and his martial arts are associated with the dragon, which focus on soft and internal aspects, where Enishi is associated with the tiger, which focus on hard and external aspects. It is however considered the greatest if one's martial arts are applied to combine soft and hard, external and internal, yin and yang so to speak, into one cohesive and harmonious force. Kenshin's Amakakeru, drawing upon his compassion and willpower, which can be considered soft and internal, utilizes the natural and efficient motions of battojutsu along with the pinnacle of fight or flight mechanisms, that is capable of unleashing such a force that physically effects not just the opponent but their surroundings as well (external). Enishi's Kofuku Zettousei relies on powerful and well exercised body motions to react fluidly as well as explosively (external), allowing him to be like a literal crouching tiger, giving him both an advantageous and safe position to analyze his prey, before lunging in for the open moment of the kill (internal). Both animals in turn are also noted to be rivals whose powers always end their bouts in a draw; the dragon may come flying crashing down or rising up, but the tiger can counter just the same by readying itself before pouncing down or leaping high.
**First, though Kenshin's Amakakeru is powerful, Enishi's comes by the advantage of surprise and tactical usage- If Enishi can read his opponent so well that he is able to evade that quick and that spry enough, they are the ones who fell into the trap.
**Second, though they are ultimate techniques, they do require their wielders to be in top shape. According to the imagery of the manga, Kenshin was in a state of doubt; according to the dynamics of the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki, one's will to live and their compassion for others must be so strong and pure that not even doubt or fear will get them to waver, and it is this that allows one to perform the Amakakeru without flaw. Kenshin was so wracked with worrying about Kaoru that it ended up getting him losing his mental edge in battle. Enishi was able to exploit this flawed Amakakeru and strike back.
**Third, one ultimate technique is no better than the rest. It is up to their users to apply them to their fullest and greatest effect. In the symbolism of their thematics, Kenshin and his martial arts are associated with the dragon, which focus on soft and internal aspects, where Enishi is associated with the tiger, which focus on hard and external aspects. It is however considered the greatest if one's martial arts are applied to combine soft and hard, external and internal, yin and yang so to speak, into one cohesive and harmonious force. Kenshin's Amakakeru, drawing upon his compassion and willpower, which can be considered soft and internal, utilizes the natural and efficient motions of battojutsu along with the pinnacle of fight or flight mechanisms, that is capable of unleashing such a force that physically effects not just the opponent but their surroundings as well (external). Enishi's Kofuku Zettousei relies on powerful and well exercised body motions to react fluidly as well as explosively (external), allowing him to be like a literal crouching tiger, giving him both an advantageous and safe position to analyze his prey, before lunging in for the open moment of the kill (internal). Both animals in turn are also noted to be rivals whose powers always end their bouts in a draw; the dragon may come flying crashing down or rising up, but the tiger can counter just the same by readying itself before pouncing down or leaping high.
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* How is Enishi's ultimate move an ultimate move? Kenshin's Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is shown to use a second step to add force and acceleration, as well as centrifugal force if he adds in the second step. It also tore an impact resistant doll to shreds, and can create a vacuum if it misses. Now that's power worthy of an ultimate move.
With Enishi, he crouches low to the ground, which allows him to cancel out the effect of the vacuum, and then simply spins his sword in a half-circle like Kenshin's Ryukansen. Yes, he did hit Kenshin with it, but even he states that Kenshin's attack was faster. Enishi only won the contest of speed because his attack only needed a half circle rotation while Kenshin's required a full circle. It just seems like a letdown in terms of power and ability.
With Enishi, he crouches low to the ground, which allows him to cancel out the effect of the vacuum, and then simply spins his sword in a half-circle like Kenshin's Ryukansen. Yes, he did hit Kenshin with it, but even he states that Kenshin's attack was faster. Enishi only won the contest of speed because his attack only needed a half circle rotation while Kenshin's required a full circle. It just seems like a letdown in terms of power and ability.
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* How is Enishi's ultimate move an ultimate move? Kenshin's Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is shown to use a second step to add force and acceleration, as well as centrifugal force if he adds in the second step. It also tore an impact resistant doll to shreds, and can create a vacuum if it misses. Now that's power worthy of an ultimate move. \n With Enishi, he crouches low to the ground, which allows him to cancel out the effect of the vacuum, and then simply spins his sword in a half-circle like Kenshin's Ryukansen. Yes, he did hit Kenshin with it, but even he states that Kenshin's attack was faster. Enishi only won the contest of speed because his attack only needed a half circle rotation while Kenshin's required a full circle. It just seems like a letdown in terms of power and ability.ability.
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Question
*How is Enishi's ultimate move an ultimate move? Kenshin's Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is shown to use a second step to add force and acceleration, as well as centrifugal force if he adds in the second step. It also tore an impact resistant doll to shreds, and can create a vacuum if it misses. Now that's power worthy of an ultimate move.
With Enishi, he crouches low to the ground, which allows him to cancel out the effect of the vacuum, and then simply spins his sword in a half-circle like Kenshin's Ryukansen. Yes, he did hit Kenshin with it, but even he states that Kenshin's attack was faster. Enishi only won the contest of speed because his attack only needed a half circle rotation while Kenshin's required a full circle. It just seems like a letdown in terms of power and ability.
With Enishi, he crouches low to the ground, which allows him to cancel out the effect of the vacuum, and then simply spins his sword in a half-circle like Kenshin's Ryukansen. Yes, he did hit Kenshin with it, but even he states that Kenshin's attack was faster. Enishi only won the contest of speed because his attack only needed a half circle rotation while Kenshin's required a full circle. It just seems like a letdown in terms of power and ability.
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** Not to mention he deflected Aoshi's ultimate technique when it came at him from behind, so small feat, that.
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** Not to mention he deflected Aoshi's ultimate technique when it came at him from behind, so small feat, that.
