History Headscratchers / PansLabyrinth

* Now, it's been about 3 years since I've seen the movie, so details are a bit fuzzy, but this part of the ending really bothered me: ''Just what's so bad about a little baby blood??'' Now, I know that when people say that they want some of your blood-- even just a little!-- then that usually means that they're going to kill you and drain you of all of it. Were that the case, I could understand how this test would be a pass/fail re: becoming a princess of a magic fairy kingdom. But mystical creatures, so far as I've come to know them, are literal to absurd proportions. So, if they say "just a little blood", you could ''totally'' get away with giving them just a drop, and they'd just have to say "Well, I guess that ''is'' what I said..." and deal with it. Going with that line of reasoning, this implies that drawing even a drop of blood from a baby-- even if it's to complete a series of tasks while on a mystical quest wherein all of your other tasks have been presented on the level (i.e. not secretly devised to kill you or otherwise full of trickery and underhandedness)-- means you're going to die alone and no one will ever know about it, instead of being transported to a land of magic and wonder. Now ''that'' is some underhanded mystical creature shit right there. The reason this pisses me off so much is because ''I so totally would have given him the baby blood''. I mean, Jesus, he's a baby, not a Romanov; it's not going to kill him to have a drop of blood lost. Unless causing even mild, momentary pain to another person, even with legitimate reason (magical quest! magical quest!), is enough to destroy your Innocent Little Girl status? To which I say: [[FelonyMisdemeanor What Do You Mean It's Heinous?]] Damn mystical creatures.

** It's not hers to give.
*** Remember that Ophelia is GenreSavvy, as well. The Faun could have meant "just a little blood"-- but he also could have gone the other way and told her that the little bit of blood she gave was not enough. Also, I think this is a testament to her strong character-- the child is only her half-brother, and his father is a vicious murderer. And it would have been very easy to blame the baby for her mother's death. But when the Faun gives her an easy proposition-- causing pain (albeit momentary) to a baby in order to go into the other world-- what answer does she give? "No."
** If I'm not mistaken, though, what the Faun had said was that she needed to use the "blood of an innocent" in order to pull it off... so why not use some of '''her own''' blood? Or did disobeying the Faun earlier cause her to become non-innocent?

** Humility? She doesn't think of herself as innocent or good enough to be able to open the portal. Maybe.
** Also, to the original post: because hurting the innocent and helpless for your own gain is what Captain Vidal does.
** That, and the Faun's not the most honest fairy in the movie.

** Ofelia did not have the knife, the Faun had. He was holding the knife in one hand, commanding her to hand over the baby. She had no control over what he would do with the baby once he had it.. . Maybe trying to gain control over the situation by demanding the knife to make sure that not more blood than necessary was spilt would have been another way to pass the test.
** Well the secret test of character was that she wouldn't choose her own desires over the well-being of an innocent. She was told: the baby has to bleed for you to get to the fairy realm. As others have said, she ''could'' have resented the baby for being the cause of their mother's death - but she chose to act as the baby's protector. She would not allow any harm to come to the child for whatever reason. A selfish person would rationalise it saying "it's only a ''little'' bit of blood". But Ofelia refusing proved that she was pure of heart and therefore able to enter the fairy realm. Also wasn't Ofelia under the impression that she would go straight to the fairy realm? If so then wouldn't that mean her brother had to stay behind? Perhaps Ofelia also didn't like the idea of leaving the baby alone and bleeding in a labyrinth in the middle of the night.
* Alright, I know this has been discussed before, but it's a major wallbanger, so it should go here, too. The problem is, ''why the bloody hell did Ofelia eat the damn fairy food!?'' Ofelia is a smart girl, and reads fairy stories; shouldn't she have learned something? And if you learn ''anything'' from fairy stories, it's that ''You Do Not Eat The Fairy Food.'' It's one of those things that I learned so early I don't remember when - Do Not Go Places With Strangers. Do Not Leave Things For Other People To Trip Over. ''[[RuleOfThree Do Not]] Eat The Fairy Food.'' They are Not Like Us, what is Theirs is Not Ours, you Do Not Mess With The Fey. It's not that they're evil, but they're not human. So how come we expect them to be like us? Anyway. Sure, she was hungry, sure she's curious, sure it's a demonstration of how not all orders are obeyed, whatever. A fairy himself told her not to, even! But noooooooooooooooooo, she just had to eat them. And so [[CrapsackWorld it all goes down the drain.]] Gee, thanks!

** The food is enchanted -- I'm always surprised by how many people don't get that. Look at the way she suddenly turns toward the grapes and the camera does a little sweeping pan to follow her gaze, with the Universal Standard Harp of Magical Mischief playing in the soundtrack. GenreBlind yourself.

** I posted this in the main page, but whether it will stay there is anyone's guess. Ofelia's acting like a character in certain fairy tales, which makes sense because she believes herself to be a fairy tale princess. In some fairy tales (but not all), the main character will fail to listen to advice, or do something they were told specifically not to do--and in the tales I can remember the reasoning is rather stupid, like not covering up the cage of a bird because it's too pretty (resulting in the bird's singing and alerting everyone in the castle that it's being stolen--admittably birds will still make SOME noise when they're covered, but not as much when they aren't!). And yes, if there is a person who is guiding the main character in their quests, they will get VERY pissed off about this. In some cases the tale ends here, but if it doesn't, the main character must do something to redeem themselves in the eyes of their quest-giver. Usually just listening to the instructions and following them to the letter is good enough, though sometimes (like in Ofelia's case) something more extreme is required. So Ofelia is just acting in accordance with the fairy-tale princess that she believes she is--and in her case, she's the kind of fairy tale character that messes up once in a while, because nobody's perfect. It took me a while to realize this, and I have read *tons* of fairy tales.
** The second time I saw the movie, I read it as a parallel to Ofelia's mother marrying Captain Vidal, and buying into his luxury, power, and prestige, even though she has to know something of what a monster he is. She let greed overrule fear, and Ofelia did the same.
*** ETA: ''not'' that it is a bad thing to look out for not only your own welfare, but that of your young daughter, during warfare. Carmen is making a pragmatic choice (or making the best of a bad situation that wasn't much of her choosing), but I still think her decision is meant to parallel Ofelia's.
** I think it's worth noting what happened right before she notices the grapes. The fairies direct her to the wrong door. She ignores them and she gets the dagger. In that instance disobedience turns out to be the right choice. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that she thought the fairies (and by extension the Faun) were misdirecting her when they tried to stop her eating the grapes

** It isn't, so much, that Ofelia's mother (and Mercedes) have no problem with Ofelia wandering around in the woods. It's that the only time Ofelia goes out there, she's already most of the way back before anyone realizes she might have gone to the woods. As for them stopping her...well, she manages to evade the notice of the guards around the mill, her mother is on enforced bed-rest, and Mercedes is busy organizing a dinner party on limited supplies while also funnelling supplies and information to the rebels. They ''do'' notice that she's gone and organize a quiet search for her (you can hear Ofelia's mom asking if they've found Ofelia yet, just before the dinner party scene) but they can't search the woods; that would require having Vidal send out his men - and ''that'' would make Ofelia's punishment his decision, rather than her mother's, since he had to expend effort to find her and bring her back. And Ofelia's mother is unlikely to want that to happen, since Vidal would probably do something worse than just send Ofelia to bed without dinner.
** Well, it's a sawmill and not a nursery. Mercedes has the entire place to run in addition to her own work, so she can't exactly keep a close watch on Ofelia 24/7. They probably don't mind her running around outside as long as she doesn't stray too far - and forcing her to stay inside could disrupt the other people working there.

** Also add in the fact that the only way out of that room is to go all the way back, climb on a chair, and draw another portal. It's very easy ti become cornered in that room. You also have to take into account, these are simple, stupid children. Not some GenreSavvy adventurer.
* There was one thing that bugged this Troper when watching Ofelia's escape-from-the-Pale-Man scene. Why, exactly, did she have to get up on a chair and draw a trapdoor in the ceiling? Wouldn't it have been much easier- and, more importantly, much faster- to simply draw another one on the wall?
** Because then it'll be harder for the Pale Man to catch her.
** Ofelia does try to draw a door onto the wall again, but unlike her bedroom, the wall is too rough for the chalk. There's even a brief shot of half of the stick breaking off onto the floor. She looks around, panicking, but settles on the ceiling, which apparently isn't covered in the same rough texture as the walls.
* Everything about the "other" world seems to scream faeries, but throughout it is referred to as the Underworld. Do they mean Underworld as in, it's underground, but essentially Fairyland, or am I missing something crucial about Spanish mythology? Otherwise it sounds like Ofelia's apparent birth parents are the King and Queen of the Land of the Dead.
** Might be a case of a mistranslation; in the original Spanish film, the other world is referred to as "Reino Subterráneo", which literally translates to "Underground Kingdom", hence no relation to the Land of the Dead. They probably translated it as "Underworld" to make it sound more fairy tale-ish.
** In Celtic mythology, fairies usually live underground, often inside ancient burial mounds. Also, especially later myths blur the difference between fairies and the spirits of the dead, and do associate their homes with one another. Whether or not this movie makes the association is a matter of speculation.
** About the Spanish mythology: there are several different mythologies, but I can say that the ones in the north have a lot of common points (somethings also shared with Portuguese mythology). Fairyland is underground with the realm of the dead. The world is called Mourama in Portuguese mythology, and Alén (lit. "The Beyond") in Galician mythology; in the last one castros and old tombs (or rock formations, actually) are entries to this world. Mouras (think the Sidhe from Irish mythology)are the inhabitants of this world and the name 'moura' is thought to mean 'dead'.

* How did so many kids get to be eaten by The Pale Man? It seems like a fairly isolated place without any normal doors or windows. Did the kids just wander into his house/lair or has the Faun been sending kids over every few years?

*** I pondered if his "lair" was more his trap. As he doesn't seem the type to do his own painting, so perhaps the fairyland people locked up all the dangerous stuff in there (the knife, whatever else is locked up, etc) and that includes a dangerous monster as an unwilling guard? The paintings are designed to warn anyone that should be there for whatever reason "don't freakin' mess with that thing!"
* If Captain Vidal resents having a stepdaughter so much, why didn't he marry a childless woman? He could just as easily get his son that way.
** He probably wanted to make sure that she was able to bear a child. Also, you probably wouldn't want to marry a man like him, unless you are a single mother during...a not very friendly time period, having a high-rank militar would secure her some stability to raise her daughter. And more than resent, it's more like not caring for her. He has a reputation to maintain and he will get angry if she does something to threaten that, but besides that, he doesn't seem to care all that much for her in both senses.

* Okay, I need to ask: what the [[PrecisionFStrike FUCK]] was Ofelia's mother thinking when she married Vidal?! I understand the need for security, but how does marrying the psychotic member of a fascist government grant you that? It just puts a big target on the back of your head, especially when you have to move to a possibly hostile spot in the middle of nowhere!
** Vidal most likely one day barked "I want you to be my wife", not asking but as an actual order. You don't say no to a man like Vidal when he is in a position of power that allows him to do anything he pleases without consequences.
*** Hm, that would make sense. But this raises a question: What's Ofelia's mother's social status anyway? They don't seem to be overly rich(especially for a colonel's wife) and she seems a little simple, humble-origins type. How did she and Vidal even meet, and what made him so interested in her(Though the theories above my answer this particular question)? And at any rate, if that's how it happened, then she seems to be suffering from some StockholmSyndrome, cause she seems to almost deify the man? Is she completely ignorant or in denial about his nature? Or is she putting on a mask to try and keep her daughter's innocence, and is in fact as much a prisoner as the poor rebels he brings to the shed?

*** He wanted a son. really bad. He was probably whoring all over the country for it. She got pregnant first.

* Why didn't Mercedes poison Vidal's food or kill him in his sleep to passively take him out ? I know it makes the story simple but I find it irritating that she doesn't do much other than plot against him indirectly. She obviously wants him for dead but even when she gets the chance to do some serious damage, she only wounds him on the shoulders rather than going for his vital organs.
** Because she wanted to help the rebels in the wood. She was smuggling supplies to them and trying to help them. There is also a big difference between simply not liking Vidal and wanting to outright murder him. If she murders him then she's a fugitive or there's also a risk of her being caught if she decides to stay. She only attacks him directly when ''her'' life is in danger. And she doesn't seem to be able to kill him properly. She just doesn't seem to have it in her. She could have also assumed the wounds ''would'' kill him - it's just that Vidal is that much of a Determinator. She may also have been waiting for the rebels to have a guaranteed chance of victory before siding with them. Also on a superficial level - a warm bed, guaranteed food and a roof over your head is more attractive than camping in the woods at the mercy of whoever's smuggling goods to you.

** Actually that is not the same character, just the same actress. The movie plays a lot with imagery, so I guess they used the same actress for both mother characters, to evoke a symbolic similarity, in that she loses her “normal” mother and “normal” life, but regains her “real” mother and ”real” life.
** AFormYouAreComfortableWith? The fairies in the film transform from their insect-like appearance to the traditional looking fairies in Ofelia's storybook. Perhaps the other fairies can do that too. Alternately Ofelia may just be seeing the fairy queen as her human mother. We could also assume that the king resembles her human father. It also provides a happier ending for the audience to see that Ofelia is reunited with her mother - rather than using a different actress and having the audience go "who the hell is this?"

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*** Exactly. And she passed the SecretTestOfCharacer because she didn't blindly do what she was told, a theme raised when the doctor was speaking to Vidal.
** Ofelia did not have the knife, the Faun had. He was holding the knife in one hand, commanding her to hand over the baby. She had no control over what he would do with the baby once he had it.. . Maybe trying to gain control over the situation by demanding the knife to make sure that not more blood than necesarry was spilt would have been another way to pass the test.

** Ofelia was not in control of the situation. She did not have the knife, the Faun had. He was holding the knife in one hand, commanding her to hand over the baby. She had no cntrol over what he would do with the baby once he had it.. . Maybe demanding the knife to make sure that not more blood than necesarry was spilt would have been another way to pass the test.

** It's not her's to give.

** Actually, this troper would have had no problem giving a little bit of a baby's blood for an apparently good cause, since that is also done for medical reasons. Some guarantees would have to be provided though. Does the sacrifice of blood negatively affect the baby significantly? That would be a deal breaker. Also I would demand that I could make the incision myself, and not with that weird knife. Also if the faun cannot give sufficient guarantees, the deal's off. These are kind of standard protocols to a genre savvy troper, and during the scente I was more concerned with the after-the-fact problem of leaving an infant inside the labyrinth without anyone to take care of it.

* Now this regards Carmen. The opening narration speaks of princess Moanna escaping from the fairy realm, dying, and being reborn elsewhere. Carmen dies during the course of this movie, of course, when she burns the mandrake root. We see her once again at the film's end, once Ofelia has re-entered the fairy realm, sitting at the throne next to Ofelia's true father, the king. Now are we to assume that Carmen is the fairy queen, having escaped, died, and returned to the underworld in the same manner as Ofelia?

** In Celtic mythology, fairies usually live underground, often inside ancient burial mounds. Also, especially later myths blur the difference between fairies and the spirits of the dead, and do associate their homes with one another. Whether or not this movie makes the association is a matter of speculation.

* Okay, I need to ask: what the FUCK was Ofelia's mother thinking when she married Vidal?! I understand the need for security, but how does marrying the psychotic member of a fascist government grant you that? It just puts a big target on the back of your head, especially when you have to move to a possibly hostile spot in the middle of nowhere!