Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / OliverAndCompany

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Apparently in an earlier version of the script, Fagin borrowed money from Sykes to bet in an illegal poker tournament, possibly to help cover living costs, before losing all of it. If we were to assume this was the same case in the movie, Fagin may have been able to convince Sykes that he would get his money back once he got his winnings.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None











* Shouldn't the collision between Sykes' car and the subway train have made the news? Surely an explosion like that can't go unnoticed in the Big Apple. Even if nobody had smartphones in the late 80s to record it, the surveillance cameras for street traffic and businesses should have got a glimpse of it. And if anyone noticed the electric scooter driving down the bridge rails right after the explosion, they'd put the peices together and somehow Fagin and the Foxworths might get into some legal trouble with the city for all those traffic violations, among other things.

to:

* Shouldn't the collision between Sykes' car and the subway train have made the news? Surely an explosion like that can't go unnoticed in the Big Apple. Even if nobody had smartphones in the late 80s to record it, the surveillance cameras for street traffic and businesses should have got a glimpse of it. And if anyone noticed the electric scooter driving down the bridge rails right after the explosion, they'd put the peices together and somehow Fagin and the Foxworths might get into some legal trouble with the city for all those traffic violations, among other things.things.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



** the address on Oliver's collar says that the Foxworthy (Jenny's surname)live on 5th Avenue. It's one of the most expensive streets in the world. Foxworth Residence, #1125, 5th Avenue,

to:

\n** *** the address on Oliver's collar says that the Foxworthy (Jenny's surname)live on 5th Avenue. It's one of the most expensive streets in the world. Foxworth Residence, #1125, 5th Avenue,
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:



Added DiffLines:


**the address on Oliver's collar says that the Foxworthy (Jenny's surname)live on 5th Avenue. It's one of the most expensive streets in the world. Foxworth Residence, #1125, 5th Avenue,


Added DiffLines:

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Sykes was going to kill Fagin, and you can't be in even greater danger than that, right? So Fagin went from Sykes wanting to murder him to random mafia dudes ''maybe'' wanting to murder him. That's a small improvement. Not to mention that somebody else might take Sykes's place now, and not be too eager to off the man who made such a promotion possible. But yeah, people ''might'' get mad, but they've got no way to track it to Fagin in particular, let alone Fagin's dogs. Finally, Sykes died in a car accident, so the most logical conclusion is that he was driving drunk, or using the kind of substances you don't see in Disney movies.

to:

** Sykes was going to kill Fagin, and you can't be in even greater danger than that, right? So Fagin went from Sykes wanting to murder him to random mafia dudes ''maybe'' wanting to murder him. That's a small improvement. Not to mention that somebody else might take Sykes's place now, and not be too eager to off the man who made such a promotion possible. But yeah, people ''might'' get mad, but they've got no way to track it to Fagin in particular, let alone Fagin's dogs. Finally, Sykes died in a car accident, so the most logical conclusion is that he was driving drunk, or using the kind of substances you don't see in Disney movies.movies.
* Shouldn't the collision between Sykes' car and the subway train have made the news? Surely an explosion like that can't go unnoticed in the Big Apple. Even if nobody had smartphones in the late 80s to record it, the surveillance cameras for street traffic and businesses should have got a glimpse of it. And if anyone noticed the electric scooter driving down the bridge rails right after the explosion, they'd put the peices together and somehow Fagin and the Foxworths might get into some legal trouble with the city for all those traffic violations, among other things.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There are several reasons why it makes more sense for Sykes and Fagin to act the way they did.

Added: 1941

Changed: 2806

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** She's a kid, and wants her cat back, so it's not surprising that she'd risk it. Kids are less sensible than adults. And her caretaker, the only adult who could go with her, would most likely not let her go there at all, let alone let her use any of her father's money to pay the ransom for a cat that she didn't have parental permission to take care of in the first place.



** I really doubt that Sykes would’ve taken such an offer from Fagin that seriously. What evidence did he have that Oliver could be ransomed, a collar with his name on it? He could’ve stolen that off of someone else’s pet and stuck it on Oliver easily. Sykes might’ve even suspected that Fagin was trying to get him in trouble with the law.
** It’s also not that practical of a scheme to expect anyone to fork over a substantial amount of money for a cat that came from the gutter and was in their life for a very short time. Had Jenny’s parents been home when the ransom note came, they probably would’ve just bought her another cat.
*** Both of these explain why Sykes would insist that Fagin play out the ransom idea. But then why did Sykes kidnap Jenny to ransom her back to her parents? There wasn't that much evidence that she had rich parents who would have the money to paid off every penny that Fagin owed Sykes. Jenny's own allowance only amounts to a piggy bank, like my middle-class childhood finances did at her age. Granted ANY parents would pay through the nose to get there children out of a life and death situation, but my point still kind of stands that Sykes technically shouldn't have expected the Foxworth's to have such money either.
** In that case...it’s been a while since I’ve seen the film, but Oliver’s collar had an address on it, didn’t it? Sykes might’ve known that the address was from a well-off neighborhood, and was simply waiting to verify that Fagin’s story checked out. If this was the case, once Jenny came along, he could’ve reasoned she belonged to a wealthy family who would pay through the nose to get her back.
* Sykes was pretty heavily involved with the criminal underworld, and its implied that he was even associated if not a part of the mafia. So, wouldn't other unseemly individuals react badly to him being gone? Doesn't his death just place Fagin and the gang in even greater danger than before, or am I wrong?

to:

** I really doubt that Sykes would’ve taken such an offer from Fagin that seriously. What evidence did he have that Oliver could be ransomed, a collar with his name on it? He could’ve could've stolen that off of someone else’s else's pet and stuck it on Oliver easily. Sykes might’ve might've even suspected that Fagin was trying to get him in trouble with the law.
*** Also, even if Sykes and Fagin knew for a fact that they'd get a handsome ransom for the cat, Fagin can't just hand over Oliver and say "Hey, Sykes, why don't you take care of this ransom business ''for'' me? And then give me all the money?" Not even when Sykes knows Fagin will give him the money back to pay his debts. It's much easier, and safer, to have Fagin blackmail the cat's owner. Also, a good rule for a loan shark is never to accept valuable objects instead of money. If the objects are worth as much as the person in debt claims, you tell them to sell it for that amount and pay you the money. If they do, you get your cash. If they can't, then you were wise not to accept their offer.
** It’s It's also not that practical of a scheme to expect anyone to fork over a substantial amount of money for a cat that came from the gutter and was in their life for a very short time. Had Jenny’s Jenny's parents been home when the ransom note came, they probably would’ve would've just bought her another cat.
*** Both of these explain why Sykes would insist that Fagin play out the ransom idea. But then why did Sykes kidnap Jenny to ransom her back to her parents? There wasn't that much evidence that she had rich parents who would have the money to paid off every penny that Fagin owed Sykes. Jenny's own allowance only amounts to a piggy bank, like my middle-class childhood finances did at her age. Granted ANY parents would pay through the nose to get there their children out of a life and death situation, but my point still kind of stands that Sykes technically shouldn't have expected the Foxworth's Foxworths to have such money either.
** In that case...it’s it's been a while since I’ve I've seen the film, but Oliver’s Oliver's collar had an address on it, didn’t didn't it? Sykes might’ve might've known that the address was from a well-off neighborhood, and was simply waiting to verify that Fagin’s Fagin's story checked out. If this was the case, once Jenny came along, he could’ve could've reasoned she belonged to a wealthy family who would pay through the nose to get her back.
** They don't need to be wealthy, they just don't need to be poor. Almost all families can get a small fortune if it's the only way to pay for their child's life. And those who can't pony up the requested money can often get you at least an amount worth the trouble. At any rate, they'll pay more for their child than they would for their cat. Most likely, Sykes figured that the cat wouldn't get them much more than what Fagin owed him. But a child? That's lots of cash. The kind Sykes would want to keep all for himself.
** There are several reasons why it makes more sense for Sykes and Fagin to act the way they did.
* Sykes was pretty heavily involved with the criminal underworld, and its implied that he was even associated if not a part of the mafia. So, wouldn't other unseemly individuals react badly to him being gone? Doesn't his death just place Fagin and the gang in even greater danger than before, or am I wrong?wrong?
** Sykes was going to kill Fagin, and you can't be in even greater danger than that, right? So Fagin went from Sykes wanting to murder him to random mafia dudes ''maybe'' wanting to murder him. That's a small improvement. Not to mention that somebody else might take Sykes's place now, and not be too eager to off the man who made such a promotion possible. But yeah, people ''might'' get mad, but they've got no way to track it to Fagin in particular, let alone Fagin's dogs. Finally, Sykes died in a car accident, so the most logical conclusion is that he was driving drunk, or using the kind of substances you don't see in Disney movies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The latter. Also, Georgette is a purebred showdog and Oliver is a mangy stray cat. Of course she's gonna disapprove.

Added: 307

Changed: -28

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In that case...it’s been a while since I’ve seen the film, but Oliver’s collar had an address on it, didn’t it? Sykes might’ve known that the address was from a well-off neighborhood, and was simply waiting to verify that Fagin’s story checked out. If this was the case, once Jenny came along, he could’ve reasoned she belonged to a wealthy family who would pay through the nose to get her back.

to:

** In that case...it’s been a while since I’ve seen the film, but Oliver’s collar had an address on it, didn’t it? Sykes might’ve known that the address was from a well-off neighborhood, and was simply waiting to verify that Fagin’s story checked out. If this was the case, once Jenny came along, he could’ve reasoned she belonged to a wealthy family who would pay through the nose to get her back.back.
* Sykes was pretty heavily involved with the criminal underworld, and its implied that he was even associated if not a part of the mafia. So, wouldn't other unseemly individuals react badly to him being gone? Doesn't his death just place Fagin and the gang in even greater danger than before, or am I wrong?

Added: 399

Changed: 66

Removed: 66

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



** But Fagin could have ANONYMOUSLY reported Sykes to the cops/FBI

to:

\n** But Fagin could have ANONYMOUSLY anonymously reported Sykes to the cops/FBI


Added DiffLines:

*** Fagin also doesn't know how much influence Sykes wields or what connections he has, meaning he wouldn't know whether reporting Sykes would fix all of his problems or make them worse. Additionally, he has to understand that as a homeless bum, he has no insurance that someone won't come after him eventually if he's even speculated to be a liability -- it's not as if anyone is going to miss him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Who says he DIDN'T try that? The authorities probably wouldn't take the word that seriously unless they knew details that Fagin would be reluctant to mention.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Both of these explain why Sykes would insist that Fagin play out the ransom idea. But then why did Sykes kidnap Jenny to ransom her back to her parents? There wasn't that much evidence that she had rich parents who would have the money to paid off every penny that Fagin owed Sykes. Jenny's own allowance only amounts to a piggy bank, like my middle-class childhood finances did at her age. Granted ANY parents would pay through the nose to get there children out of a life and death situation, but my point still kind of stands that Sykes technically shouldn't have expected the Foxworth's to have such money either.

to:

*** Both of these explain why Sykes would insist that Fagin play out the ransom idea. But then why did Sykes kidnap Jenny to ransom her back to her parents? There wasn't that much evidence that she had rich parents who would have the money to paid off every penny that Fagin owed Sykes. Jenny's own allowance only amounts to a piggy bank, like my middle-class childhood finances did at her age. Granted ANY parents would pay through the nose to get there children out of a life and death situation, but my point still kind of stands that Sykes technically shouldn't have expected the Foxworth's to have such money either.either.
** In that case...it’s been a while since I’ve seen the film, but Oliver’s collar had an address on it, didn’t it? Sykes might’ve known that the address was from a well-off neighborhood, and was simply waiting to verify that Fagin’s story checked out. If this was the case, once Jenny came along, he could’ve reasoned she belonged to a wealthy family who would pay through the nose to get her back.

Added: 621

Changed: -12

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It’s also not that practical of a scheme to expect anyone to fork over a substantial amount of money for a cat that came from the gutter and was in their life for a very short time. Had Jenny’s parents been home when the ransom note came, they probably would’ve just bought her another cat.

to:

** It’s also not that practical of a scheme to expect anyone to fork over a substantial amount of money for a cat that came from the gutter and was in their life for a very short time. Had Jenny’s parents been home when the ransom note came, they probably would’ve just bought her another cat.cat.
*** Both of these explain why Sykes would insist that Fagin play out the ransom idea. But then why did Sykes kidnap Jenny to ransom her back to her parents? There wasn't that much evidence that she had rich parents who would have the money to paid off every penny that Fagin owed Sykes. Jenny's own allowance only amounts to a piggy bank, like my middle-class childhood finances did at her age. Granted ANY parents would pay through the nose to get there children out of a life and death situation, but my point still kind of stands that Sykes technically shouldn't have expected the Foxworth's to have such money either.

Added: 293

Changed: -16

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** I really doubt that Sykes would’ve taken such an offer from Fagin that seriously. What evidence did he have that Oliver could be ransomed, a collar with his name on it? He could’ve stolen that off of someone else’s pet and stuck it on Oliver easily. Sykes might’ve even suspected that Fagin was trying to get him in trouble with the law.

to:

** I really doubt that Sykes would’ve taken such an offer from Fagin that seriously. What evidence did he have that Oliver could be ransomed, a collar with his name on it? He could’ve stolen that off of someone else’s pet and stuck it on Oliver easily. Sykes might’ve even suspected that Fagin was trying to get him in trouble with the law.law.
** It’s also not that practical of a scheme to expect anyone to fork over a substantial amount of money for a cat that came from the gutter and was in their life for a very short time. Had Jenny’s parents been home when the ransom note came, they probably would’ve just bought her another cat.

Added: 340

Changed: 187

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why is Georgette getting jealous of Oliver? Does she want the same kind of love Jenny is providing? Or does she just not like the fact that competition for pet attention is at hand? (Oddly enough, the same thing was in Illumination's The Secret Life of Pets, which people may be forgetting took inspiration from this movie)
* Why did Jenny go ALONE (Georgette not withstanding) to get Oliver back? Didn't her parents ever tell her that there are some districts in New York that upper class children should avoid at all costs?! (Insert Batman backstory comparison here)
* Other than the fact that Fagin would have looked more cynical, why couldn't he just leave Oliver in Sykes hands and have HIM ransom Oliver back to his family? Fagin was rather worried that the "Cat owner person" was tough and strong, and was paranoid about the cops showing up too. So why not just leave Oliver with a REAL badass who'll show no mercy if he doesn't get the ransom money.

to:

* Why is Georgette getting jealous of Oliver? Does she want the same kind of love Jenny is providing? Or does she just not like the fact that competition for pet attention is at hand? (Oddly enough, the same thing was in Illumination's The Secret Life of Pets, which people may be forgetting took inspiration from this movie)
hand?
* Why did Jenny go ALONE (Georgette not withstanding) to get Oliver back? Didn't her parents ever tell her that there are some districts in New York that upper class children should avoid at all costs?! (Insert Batman backstory comparison here)
costs?
* Other than the fact that Fagin would have looked more cynical, why couldn't he just leave Oliver in Sykes hands and have HIM ransom Oliver back to his family? Fagin was rather worried that the "Cat owner person" was tough and strong, and was paranoid about the cops showing up too. So why not just leave Oliver with a REAL badass who'll show no mercy if he doesn't get the ransom money.money?
** I really doubt that Sykes would’ve taken such an offer from Fagin that seriously. What evidence did he have that Oliver could be ransomed, a collar with his name on it? He could’ve stolen that off of someone else’s pet and stuck it on Oliver easily. Sykes might’ve even suspected that Fagin was trying to get him in trouble with the law.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why did Jenny go ALONE (Georgette not withstanding) to get Oliver back? Didn't her parents ever tell her that there are some districts in New York that upper class children should avoid at all costs?! (Insert Batman backstory comparison here)

to:

* Why did Jenny go ALONE (Georgette not withstanding) to get Oliver back? Didn't her parents ever tell her that there are some districts in New York that upper class children should avoid at all costs?! (Insert Batman backstory comparison here)here)
* Other than the fact that Fagin would have looked more cynical, why couldn't he just leave Oliver in Sykes hands and have HIM ransom Oliver back to his family? Fagin was rather worried that the "Cat owner person" was tough and strong, and was paranoid about the cops showing up too. So why not just leave Oliver with a REAL badass who'll show no mercy if he doesn't get the ransom money.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why is Georgette getting jealous of Oliver? Does she want the same kind of love Jenny is providing? Or does she just not like the fact that competition for pet attention is at hand? (Oddly enough, the same thing was in Illumination's The Secret Life of Pets, which people may be forgetting took inspiration from this movie)

to:

* Why is Georgette getting jealous of Oliver? Does she want the same kind of love Jenny is providing? Or does she just not like the fact that competition for pet attention is at hand? (Oddly enough, the same thing was in Illumination's The Secret Life of Pets, which people may be forgetting took inspiration from this movie)movie)
* Why did Jenny go ALONE (Georgette not withstanding) to get Oliver back? Didn't her parents ever tell her that there are some districts in New York that upper class children should avoid at all costs?! (Insert Batman backstory comparison here)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The trouble with borrowing money from Loan Sharks is that you tend to end up even poorer than when you started, with fun things like 500% interest per week. Fagin may not even have been homeless until he started borrowing money from Sykes.

to:

** The trouble with borrowing money from Loan Sharks is that you tend to end up even poorer than when you started, with fun things like 500% interest per week. Fagin may not even have been homeless until he started borrowing money from Sykes.Sykes.
* Why is Georgette getting jealous of Oliver? Does she want the same kind of love Jenny is providing? Or does she just not like the fact that competition for pet attention is at hand? (Oddly enough, the same thing was in Illumination's The Secret Life of Pets, which people may be forgetting took inspiration from this movie)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


**But Fagin could have ANONYMOUSLY reported Sykes to the cops/FBI
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** The "Why should I worry sequence" was just a simple Animation error (Movie goofs; they happen. They're all over ImDB)

to:

*** The "Why should I worry sequence" was just a simple Animation error (Movie goofs; they happen. They're all over ImDB)Website/IMDb)

Added: 242

Changed: 229

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Or Sykes has enough connections that an accusation from a homeless thief won't get anywhere with the police, and will certainly tip Sykes off that Fagin ratted him out, which won't end well for him.

to:

** Or Sykes has enough connections that an accusation from a homeless thief won't get anywhere with is heavily implied to be high up in the police, and will certainly tip Sykes off that Fagin ratted him out, which won't end well for him.Mafia. That's not the kind of person you snitch on without repercussions.



** Sykes doesn't care that Fagin's poor. He knows the old bum has got to pay him ''somehow.''

to:

** Sykes doesn't care that Fagin's poor. He knows the old bum has got to pay him ''somehow.''''
** The trouble with borrowing money from Loan Sharks is that you tend to end up even poorer than when you started, with fun things like 500% interest per week. Fagin may not even have been homeless until he started borrowing money from Sykes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why would Sykes even bother loaning cash to a bum like Fagin in the first place? Assuming he was always homeless, did Sykes really expect Fagin to pay him back?

to:

* Why would Sykes even bother loaning cash to a bum like Fagin in the first place? Assuming he was always homeless, did Sykes really expect Fagin to pay him back?back?
**Sykes doesn't care that Fagin's poor. He knows the old bum has got to pay him ''somehow.''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** The "Why should I worry sequence" was just a simple Animation error (Movie goofs; they happen. They're all over ImDB)

to:

*** The "Why should I worry sequence" was just a simple Animation error (Movie goofs; they happen. They're all over ImDB)ImDB)
* Why would Sykes even bother loaning cash to a bum like Fagin in the first place? Assuming he was always homeless, did Sykes really expect Fagin to pay him back?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Fagin probably got him a new one. What ''I'' wanna know, is where the heck did his bandanna go during the "Why Should I Worry?" sequence?

to:

** Fagin probably got him a new one. What ''I'' wanna know, is where the heck did his bandanna go during the "Why Should I Worry?" sequence?sequence?
***The "Why should I worry sequence" was just a simple Animation error (Movie goofs; they happen. They're all over ImDB)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Well, because he would probably have to confess that he made deals with a loan shark, which is not exactly legal. That and the fact that Fagin is a thief (albeit a harmless one) must have been what kept him form seeking the police. It´s also possible that Sykes could have killed the policeman sent after him and for Fagin it would only make things worse if Sykes found out he was the one who tried to get him arrested.

to:

** Well, because he would probably have to confess that he made deals with a loan shark, which is not exactly legal. That and the fact that Fagin is a thief (albeit a harmless one) must have been what kept him form from seeking the police. It´s also possible that Sykes could have killed the policeman sent after him and for Fagin Fagin, it would only make things worse if Sykes found out he was the one who tried to get him arrested.



** Fagin probably got him a new one. What ''I'' wanna know, is where the heck did his bandana go during the "Why Should I Worry?" sequence?

to:

** Fagin probably got him a new one. What ''I'' wanna know, is where the heck did his bandana bandanna go during the "Why Should I Worry?" sequence?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* How'd Dodger get his bandanna back after the climax?

to:

* How'd Dodger get his bandanna back after the climax?climax?
** Fagin probably got him a new one. What ''I'' wanna know, is where the heck did his bandana go during the "Why Should I Worry?" sequence?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Or Sykes has enough connections that an accusation from a homeless thief won't get anywhere with the police, and will certainly tip Sykes off that Fagin ratted him out, which won't end well for him.

to:

** Or Sykes has enough connections that an accusation from a homeless thief won't get anywhere with the police, and will certainly tip Sykes off that Fagin ratted him out, which won't end well for him.him.
*How'd Dodger get his bandanna back after the climax?

Added: 201

Changed: -2

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Well, because he would probably have to confess that he made deals with a loan shark, which is not exactly legal. That and the fact that Fagin is a thief (albeit a harmless one) must have been what kept him form seeking the police. It´s also possible that Sykes could have killed the policeman sent after him and for Fagin it would only make things worse if Sykes found out he was the one who tried to get him arrested.

to:

** Well, because he would probably have to confess that he made deals with a loan shark, which is not exactly legal. That and the fact that Fagin is a thief (albeit a harmless one) must have been what kept him form seeking the police. It´s also possible that Sykes could have killed the policeman sent after him and for Fagin it would only make things worse if Sykes found out he was the one who tried to get him arrested.arrested.
** Or Sykes has enough connections that an accusation from a homeless thief won't get anywhere with the police, and will certainly tip Sykes off that Fagin ratted him out, which won't end well for him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why doesn't Fagin just report to the police that there's a madman threatening him for money?

to:

* Why doesn't Fagin just report to the police that there's a madman threatening him for money?money?
** Well, because he would probably have to confess that he made deals with a loan shark, which is not exactly legal. That and the fact that Fagin is a thief (albeit a harmless one) must have been what kept him form seeking the police. It´s also possible that Sykes could have killed the policeman sent after him and for Fagin it would only make things worse if Sykes found out he was the one who tried to get him arrested.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Why doesn't Fagin just report to the police that there's a madman threatening him for money?

Top