History Headscratchers / OldKingdom

13th Jan '16 8:24:02 PM MasterGhandalf
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** Keep in mind that the rabbit died literally seconds before Sabriel got to it (it's soul probably not even past the first gate), and I would imagine that had it been dead any longer, its resurrection would not have gone so smoothly or produced a cute little bunny. As for bringing back the soldiers, I'd chalk that up to one part EarlyInstallmentWeirdness, one part Sabriel's wishful thinking, as nowhere else in the series is it implied that such would be possible.


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*** But how much of that do the contemporary Abhorsens ''know''? Terciel can only speculate as to Mogget's origins in ''Sabriel'', and his guess (that Mogget was the "child" of the Wallmakers) proves to have been entirely incorrect. And barely anybody in the present story knows anything about the Shiners and their story. (It's worth noting that we the readers know next to nothing about what actually went down back then either, but the way the Disreputable Dog/[[spoiler: Kibeth]] talks about and to Mogget, one gets the impression she'd have killed him had the decision been up to her, which implies something rather worse on his end than just cowardice). Presumably, the knowledge of Mogget's true nature was lost long ago, and all that Sabriel, Terciel, and their immediate predecessors knew was that Mogget was a useful if frustrating advisor when bound, and a raving lunatic who'd try to murder anyone in reach when unbound, and that was all they needed to know to make sure that collar stays tightly affixed save in dire need.
20th Aug '15 4:22:36 PM tafelshrew
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*** But why? As the post below points out, nothing bad comes of it, and if you can genuinely resurrect animals or people as opposed to creating homicidal undead, why is it such a terrible thing?


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*** Except that the Seven Bright Shiners who created the world were Free Magic creatures. All we know about Yrael back then is that he didn't want to fight a god called the Destroyer - which seems fairly understandable, if cowardly. Keeping him bound (and there's a difference between "bound" and "enslaved") is a sensible injustice, but his insanity looks a lot like a product of being bound into cat form and slavery for thousands of years. Again, by the time of the books, keeping him bound is by far the safest decision, but again, there's a difference between "bound" and "enslaved" - no Abhorsen (of all people) we see thinks about this?
16th Jun '15 7:41:59 PM billybobfred
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** The narration makes this out to potentially be Sabriel's StartOfDarkness, but nothing whatsoever comes of it at any point in the series. WhatHappenedToTheMouse, er, bunny?
2nd Jun '15 1:39:50 PM GammaCavy
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**Yeah. One in the people who wear the crown, two in the folk who keep the dead down, and five for the warp, that would be the great charters.
2nd Jun '15 1:34:53 PM GammaCavy
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** You unable to hear with the ears wouldn't stop you from dying. As Mogget said when they neared teh remnant of Astareal under the well, "if she speaks we will hear."

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** You Being unable to hear with the your ears wouldn't stop you from dying. As Mogget said when they neared teh the remnant of Astareal under the well, well: "if she speaks speaks, we will ''will'' hear."
1st Jun '15 8:54:21 PM GammaCavy
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** The books also specifically state that a necromancer, Abhorsen or not, is ''required'' to have rudimentary music skills. Because if they get caught in Death without their bells, like Sam did in the beginning of his adventure in ''"Lirael"'', whistles and claps can be used in lieu of the bells.

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** The books also specifically state that a necromancer, Abhorsen or not, is ''required'' to have rudimentary music skills. Because if they get caught in Death without their bells, like Sam did in the beginning of his adventure in ''"Lirael"'', whistles and claps can be used in lieu of the bells. bells.
** You unable to hear with the ears wouldn't stop you from dying. As Mogget said when they neared teh remnant of Astareal under the well, "if she speaks we will hear."
1st May '15 10:31:21 PM AmbarSonofDeshar
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** As someone else noted above, Kerrigor was ''insanely'' powerful. He's the strongest Dead spirit, and perhaps the strongest magic-user, in the history of the Old Kingdom, and there's little reason to doubt that he could overpower even a being as strong as Mogget.

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** As someone else noted above, Kerrigor was ''insanely'' powerful. He's the strongest Dead spirit, and perhaps the strongest magic-user, in the history of the Old Kingdom, and there's little reason to doubt that he could overpower even a being as strong as Mogget. As to the notion that we was still fighting inside Kerrigor as proved by the "white flame" in Kerrigor's eyes? No. Kerrigor's eyes are ''always'' white flames, and are described as such from his first appearance. Kerrigor won the fight. I don't think that needs further justification; it's not as if the concept of a lich besting a god is unheard of (looking at ''you'' [[TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}} Tar-Baphon]]).
28th Apr '15 10:23:05 PM Somariel
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** It's not a case of "slavery is okay if we do it", it's a case of "Free Magic is inherently evil. Mogget is a creature of Free Magic and therefore ''must'' be either destroyed or bound."
28th Apr '15 6:40:34 PM Somariel
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** With regards to the rabbit's resurrection, Sabriel ''does'' admit to herself that she really ''should not'' have brought it back and, in fact, broke a promise she made to both herself and her father in doing so.
28th Apr '15 5:54:45 PM Somariel
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*** Yeah, at the end of ''Sabriel'', Lirael was '''''at most''''' a four-week-old ''fetus''. It's pretty clear from what Lirael sees in the Dark Mirror that she was conceived literally the night before Terciel started the trip to Belisaere that left him trapped in Death until Sabriel rescued him. Near the beginning of ''Sabriel'', when Sabriel is talking to Colonel Horyse before entering the Old Kingdom, Colonel Horyse says that the full moon will occur in fourteen days. Then, when Sabriel and Touchstone arrive back in Ancelstierre near the end of the book, Colonel Horyse tells them that the full moon is ''that night''. Sabriel does say after that that she's certain that she was in the Old Kingdom for at least sixteen days, but Colonel Horyse explains that there's often a time discrepancy between Ancelstierre and the Old Kingdom. So

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*** Yeah, at the end of ''Sabriel'', Lirael was '''''at most''''' a four-week-old ''fetus''. It's pretty clear from what Lirael sees in the Dark Mirror that she was conceived literally the night before Terciel started the trip to Belisaere that left him trapped in Death until Sabriel rescued him. Near the beginning of ''Sabriel'', when Sabriel is talking to Colonel Horyse before entering the Old Kingdom, Colonel Horyse says that the full moon will occur in fourteen days. Then, when Sabriel and Touchstone arrive back in Ancelstierre near the end of the book, Colonel Horyse tells them that the full moon is ''that night''. Sabriel does say after that that she's certain that she was in the Old Kingdom for at least sixteen days, but Colonel Horyse explains that there's often a small time discrepancy between Ancelstierre and the Old Kingdom. SoIt's highly unlikely that it took Terciel more than a week to reach Belisaere from Abhorsen's House, so even if Sabriel was in the Old Kingdom for twenty days, that's still less than a month after Lirael's conception.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.OldKingdom