History Headscratchers / Okami

9th Jun '17 7:28:22 PM Chariset
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** SecretTest? It would make sense for Waka to want to be absolutely certain this is Amaterasu, given that he'd already caused one disaster by trusting the wrong thing. Of course, he wants to help her if she's real. So speaking in riddles and following her progress (and even stealing the Serpent Crystal early) is his way of not committing himself too much, just in case she's a fraud.
28th May '17 5:55:29 AM jormis29
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*** Rao's body was in such a state that it was likely in the well for years. But according to everyone else, she had always been around. There was no gap beteen Rao's death and Fake Rao taking her place. This suggests that Ninetails killed Rao at least three years prior to the events of the game, but n

to:

*** Rao's body was in such a state that it was likely in the well for years. But according to everyone else, she had always been around. There was no gap beteen Rao's death and Fake Rao taking her place. This suggests that Ninetails killed Rao at least three years prior to the events of the game, but nnever missed a day pretending to be her. More likely, Ninetails lost to fox rods long ago, and other demons had been using them until the Dragon King tried to seal them away. Or, she'd picked a fight with the Dragon King and lost them then. The only way she could have kiled Rao recently would be if she could speed up time to make the corpse appear to be much older than it is.
*** Maybe Ninetails just ''ate'' Rao sometime recently, but left some of the clothes & just a little bit of flesh stuck to the skeleton, and then discarded it in the well so no one would discover her ruse. She's bigger than Amaterasu, a full-grown wolf, so being able to eat a human shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I can't remember if Ninetails specified ''exactly'' how long she had been impersonating Rao for, but she could've either been exaggerating or just lying. And as for Orochi's miasma, remember he was already killed once. Maybe the exact same thing happened with Nagi and Shiranui a century before, and ''that's'' where all the other bosses originated from. Going with what was said above, the second miasma probably acted as a source of more power for them, which is why everything conveniently goes down right after you defeat Orochi.
*** I thought this too, but if you go onto the Ark of Yamato and talk to the celestials, they say that Orochi released the other demons right after being defeated by Susano and Amaterasu. As it stands, Blight and Ninetails seem to be plot holes.
*** Didn't Ninetails say it was difficult to be in that body or something. Maybe she was actually wearing her skin (and maybe her flesh too) and the bones weren't needed. It would help it hide its scent, and in a world with the canine warriors and the Oina tribe.
*** Also, if you go to the Sei-An City checkpoint before defeating Orochi, the people there will talk about the massive cursed zone over the city, and the mysterious illness, which was Blight's doing. So Blight had to have been around before Orochi's defeat...
** There was a timeskip after you beat Orochi, I thought that was obvious...
* Why is that snowball in Wep'keer??? You know the one I'm talking about... And why can it only be reduced in size once?
** ...Purely aesthetic detail?
* What did Ammy say to the Spider Queen?
** Whatever it was, it seems to have been a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech, based on the length and the spider Queen's reaction.
* A minor Headscratcher, but why did Ninetails [[spoiler: have to cover its eye with hair while it was pretending to be Rao?]] Supposedly, it's to hide its actual lack of one, but couldn't it just claim that it was attacked by demons[[spoiler: (as the real Rao was before her death)]] and lost an eye?
** Perhaps because she didn't want there to be ''any'' flaws in her disguise. The real Rao didn't have a missing eye, so even if Ninetails did use an attack as an excuse, it might still cause suspicions... although, I have to wonder why she didn't try to make the beads the same color, but that probably wouldn't have been as noticeable.
* This troper is bothered that a lot of people assume Amaterasu has a "real" form (barring the Shiranui form). People reference what the monk said, forgetting that it was simply a comparison (like say, you'd compare a rose to a beautiful woman). He didn't see her "true" form.
** Because Amaterasu is depicted as a beautiful woman in a lot of real-life mythology, and is also able to take the form of a white wolf. Whether this applies to Ammy in the game, thinking that she's currently in her wolf form and not her "true" form isn't too farfetched.
* How does Rao/Ninetails go to Queen Himiko's room? There was a lava pit in front of the room!
** She probably just jumped over it, or used some kind of magic, just like you did with the Fire Tablet. Hey, being a ridiculously large demon fox can be good for a few things.
* When you fight Ninetails, and each of her tails divide, who are the other people that each of the tails takes the form of? Are they supposed to be past victims, or something? Also, how in the world is Ninetails, a fox, ''bigger'' than Amaterasu, a fully grown ''wolf'', even in her true form?
** Amaterasu is a God incarnated into a normal-sized wolf (or wolf statue). Ninetails is a kitsune, a nine-tailed spirit fox, which would make him/her capable of much more than just increasing its size. Also, the game developers probably wanted that boss-feeling for you to be the [[IncrediblyLamePun underdog]]
** The people that form from each of Ninetails' tails are the Tube Foxes from the Fox Rods you obtain in the Water Dragon's belly. In the belly of the beast, you beat the Tube Foxes and they turn into the Fox Rods, which Rao takes back. Ninetails now has full power, and the Tube Foxes, like Ninetails herself, can turn into Rao. As for the size difference, Ninetails is a demon first and foremost. Just because she looks like a fox doesn't mean she actually is one.
* Ninetails' story goes that she lost her Fox Rods to the Water Dragon, and you fight the Tube Foxes which turn into the Fox Rods. It looks to me like the Fox Rods contain the nine tails that Ninetails uses to make up her fully powered "Fake God" form later on, as opposed to her one-tailed form after you beat her tails. So when Ninetails killed Rao, Ninetails must have been reduced to her one tail since she'd fought and lost to the Water Dragon. Why does she have all nine in the flashback, then?
** Ninetails is a shapeshifter. She could have created eight more tails that had no effect on her power, just for the purposes of being more frightening.
** Her real form is more demonic: it's basically just a fox with glowing eyes.
* Also, why does Crimson Helm have a place on the Ark of Yamato? You could make a case that the Spider Queen was one of the original demons on the Ark, but Crimson Helm was born long after it crashed.
** It's alluded to that Blight and Ninetails were born from Orochi's defeat, so in that regard, neither of them should have a place on the Ark as well.
** It's not about who was there originally - it's about whose spirits were drawn there after their deaths. Doesn't explain the neatly matching wall carvings... Maybe Yami added them?
* If the idea behind your divine weapons is that they judge and banish evil, then how come they can hurt [[spoiler: Nagi]]?
** For that matter, how was [[spoiler: Ninetails, a powerful demon possessing Rao's body]] capable of carrying Prayer Slips?
** Nobody's totally perfect, which may just explain why your weapons can hurt [[spoiler: Nagi]]. [[FridgeBrilliance It also explains how a regular mortal has such high health - he almost totally pure, but just not quite.]]
* Just what was the point of "locating" Oni Island? From your first conversation with Himiko, it sounds like you would need to know the location of the island well before it actually appears there, because the preparations would take a long time. And yet, mere minutes after Himiko tells you the location, you're standing on the island. And Oni Island only shifts position once per day at sunset, so they should've been able to figure out where it was 24 hours before it changed location just by using their eyes. Why did Himiko need to spend weeks praying and then [[spoiler:die, sealing her soul in the crystal ball]] when they could've just asked the merchant at North Ryoshima Coast where it was, or, you know, just looked themselves? Following that logic, what's the big rush in getting to the island? Couldn't they have just hung out near the ocean at sunset every night, see where the island appeared, and when it appeared in a place close enough to get to, just do the Water Dragon thing and have a full 24 hours until it shifts?
** EDIT: There's more. The plot straight up breaks the rules it established with Oni Island, because when you're running to save Rao, you should be able to look back and see Oni Island just a little ways away from Watcher's Cape. And yet, it's way off in the distance. It's only until Himiko "locates" the island that it moves into position, even though there was absolutely nothing about your conversation with her that indicated that all of her praying would actually move Oni Island.
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27th May '17 7:27:32 PM SoullessRaptor
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** Perhaps it's because the best way to thwart a trap is to set it off in a way that favors you? Amaterasu knows what's happening, but plays along to force Ninetails into the open, where it can be beaten?



*** Rao's body was in such a state that it was likely in the well for years. But according to everyone else, she had always been around. There was no gap beteen Rao's death and Fake Rao taking her place. This suggests that Ninetails killed Rao at least three years prior to the events of the game, but never missed a day pretending to be her. More likely, Ninetails lost to fox rods long ago, and other demons had been using them until the Dragon King tried to seal them away. Or, she'd picked a fight with the Dragon King and lost them then. The only way she could have kiled Rao recently would be if she could speed up time to make the corpse appear to be much older than it is.
*** Maybe Ninetails just ''ate'' Rao sometime recently, but left some of the clothes & just a little bit of flesh stuck to the skeleton, and then discarded it in the well so no one would discover her ruse. She's bigger than Amaterasu, a full-grown wolf, so being able to eat a human shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I can't remember if Ninetails specified ''exactly'' how long she had been impersonating Rao for, but she could've either been exaggerating or just lying. And as for Orochi's miasma, remember he was already killed once. Maybe the exact same thing happened with Nagi and Shiranui a century before, and ''that's'' where all the other bosses originated from. Going with what was said above, the second miasma probably acted as a source of more power for them, which is why everything conveniently goes down right after you defeat Orochi.
*** I thought this too, but if you go onto the Ark of Yamato and talk to the celestials, they say that Orochi released the other demons right after being defeated by Susano and Amaterasu. As it stands, Blight and Ninetails seem to be plot holes.
*** Didn't Ninetails say it was difficult to be in that body or something. Maybe she was actually wearing her skin (and maybe her flesh too) and the bones weren't needed. It would help it hide its scent, and in a world with the canine warriors and the Oina tribe.
*** Also, if you go to the Sei-An City checkpoint before defeating Orochi, the people there will talk about the massive cursed zone over the city, and the mysterious illness, which was Blight's doing. So Blight had to have been around before Orochi's defeat...
** There was a timeskip after you beat Orochi, I thought that was obvious...
* Why is that snowball in Wep'keer??? You know the one I'm talking about... And why can it only be reduced in size once?
** ...Purely aesthetic detail?
* What did Ammy say to the Spider Queen?
** Whatever it was, it seems to have been a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech, based on the length and the spider Queen's reaction.
* A minor Headscratcher, but why did Ninetails [[spoiler: have to cover its eye with hair while it was pretending to be Rao?]] Supposedly, it's to hide its actual lack of one, but couldn't it just claim that it was attacked by demons[[spoiler: (as the real Rao was before her death)]] and lost an eye?
** Perhaps because she didn't want there to be ''any'' flaws in her disguise. The real Rao didn't have a missing eye, so even if Ninetails did use an attack as an excuse, it might still cause suspicions... although, I have to wonder why she didn't try to make the beads the same color, but that probably wouldn't have been as noticeable.
* This troper is bothered that a lot of people assume Amaterasu has a "real" form (barring the Shiranui form). People reference what the monk said, forgetting that it was simply a comparison (like say, you'd compare a rose to a beautiful woman). He didn't see her "true" form.
** Because Amaterasu is depicted as a beautiful woman in a lot of real-life mythology, and is also able to take the form of a white wolf. Whether this applies to Ammy in the game, thinking that she's currently in her wolf form and not her "true" form isn't too farfetched.
* How does Rao/Ninetails go to Queen Himiko's room? There was a lava pit in front of the room!
** She probably just jumped over it, or used some kind of magic, just like you did with the Fire Tablet. Hey, being a ridiculously large demon fox can be good for a few things.
* When you fight Ninetails, and each of her tails divide, who are the other people that each of the tails takes the form of? Are they supposed to be past victims, or something? Also, how in the world is Ninetails, a fox, ''bigger'' than Amaterasu, a fully grown ''wolf'', even in her true form?
** Amaterasu is a God incarnated into a normal-sized wolf (or wolf statue). Ninetails is a kitsune, a nine-tailed spirit fox, which would make him/her capable of much more than just increasing its size. Also, the game developers probably wanted that boss-feeling for you to be the [[IncrediblyLamePun underdog]]
** The people that form from each of Ninetails' tails are the Tube Foxes from the Fox Rods you obtain in the Water Dragon's belly. In the belly of the beast, you beat the Tube Foxes and they turn into the Fox Rods, which Rao takes back. Ninetails now has full power, and the Tube Foxes, like Ninetails herself, can turn into Rao. As for the size difference, Ninetails is a demon first and foremost. Just because she looks like a fox doesn't mean she actually is one.
* Ninetails' story goes that she lost her Fox Rods to the Water Dragon, and you fight the Tube Foxes which turn into the Fox Rods. It looks to me like the Fox Rods contain the nine tails that Ninetails uses to make up her fully powered "Fake God" form later on, as opposed to her one-tailed form after you beat her tails. So when Ninetails killed Rao, Ninetails must have been reduced to her one tail since she'd fought and lost to the Water Dragon. Why does she have all nine in the flashback, then?
** Ninetails is a shapeshifter. She could have created eight more tails that had no effect on her power, just for the purposes of being more frightening.
** Her real form is more demonic: it's basically just a fox with glowing eyes.
* Also, why does Crimson Helm have a place on the Ark of Yamato? You could make a case that the Spider Queen was one of the original demons on the Ark, but Crimson Helm was born long after it crashed.
** It's alluded to that Blight and Ninetails were born from Orochi's defeat, so in that regard, neither of them should have a place on the Ark as well.
** It's not about who was there originally - it's about whose spirits were drawn there after their deaths. Doesn't explain the neatly matching wall carvings... Maybe Yami added them?
* If the idea behind your divine weapons is that they judge and banish evil, then how come they can hurt [[spoiler: Nagi]]?
** For that matter, how was [[spoiler: Ninetails, a powerful demon possessing Rao's body]] capable of carrying Prayer Slips?
** Nobody's totally perfect, which may just explain why your weapons can hurt [[spoiler: Nagi]]. [[FridgeBrilliance It also explains how a regular mortal has such high health - he almost totally pure, but just not quite.]]
* Just what was the point of "locating" Oni Island? From your first conversation with Himiko, it sounds like you would need to know the location of the island well before it actually appears there, because the preparations would take a long time. And yet, mere minutes after Himiko tells you the location, you're standing on the island. And Oni Island only shifts position once per day at sunset, so they should've been able to figure out where it was 24 hours before it changed location just by using their eyes. Why did Himiko need to spend weeks praying and then [[spoiler:die, sealing her soul in the crystal ball]] when they could've just asked the merchant at North Ryoshima Coast where it was, or, you know, just looked themselves? Following that logic, what's the big rush in getting to the island? Couldn't they have just hung out near the ocean at sunset every night, see where the island appeared, and when it appeared in a place close enough to get to, just do the Water Dragon thing and have a full 24 hours until it shifts?
** EDIT: There's more. The plot straight up breaks the rules it established with Oni Island, because when you're running to save Rao, you should be able to look back and see Oni Island just a little ways away from Watcher's Cape. And yet, it's way off in the distance. It's only until Himiko "locates" the island that it moves into position, even though there was absolutely nothing about your conversation with her that indicated that all of her praying would actually move Oni Island.
----
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>

to:

*** Rao's body was in such a state that it was likely in the well for years. But according to everyone else, she had always been around. There was no gap beteen Rao's death and Fake Rao taking her place. This suggests that Ninetails killed Rao at least three years prior to the events of the game, but never missed a day pretending to be her. More likely, Ninetails lost to fox rods long ago, and other demons had been using them until the Dragon King tried to seal them away. Or, she'd picked a fight with the Dragon King and lost them then. The only way she could have kiled Rao recently would be if she could speed up time to make the corpse appear to be much older than it is.
*** Maybe Ninetails just ''ate'' Rao sometime recently, but left some of the clothes & just a little bit of flesh stuck to the skeleton, and then discarded it in the well so no one would discover her ruse. She's bigger than Amaterasu, a full-grown wolf, so being able to eat a human shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I can't remember if Ninetails specified ''exactly'' how long she had been impersonating Rao for, but she could've either been exaggerating or just lying. And as for Orochi's miasma, remember he was already killed once. Maybe the exact same thing happened with Nagi and Shiranui a century before, and ''that's'' where all the other bosses originated from. Going with what was said above, the second miasma probably acted as a source of more power for them, which is why everything conveniently goes down right after you defeat Orochi.
*** I thought this too, but if you go onto the Ark of Yamato and talk to the celestials, they say that Orochi released the other demons right after being defeated by Susano and Amaterasu. As it stands, Blight and Ninetails seem to be plot holes.
*** Didn't Ninetails say it was difficult to be in that body or something. Maybe she was actually wearing her skin (and maybe her flesh too) and the bones weren't needed. It would help it hide its scent, and in a world with the canine warriors and the Oina tribe.
*** Also, if you go to the Sei-An City checkpoint before defeating Orochi, the people there will talk about the massive cursed zone over the city, and the mysterious illness, which was Blight's doing. So Blight had to have been around before Orochi's defeat...
** There was a timeskip after you beat Orochi, I thought that was obvious...
* Why is that snowball in Wep'keer??? You know the one I'm talking about... And why can it only be reduced in size once?
** ...Purely aesthetic detail?
* What did Ammy say to the Spider Queen?
** Whatever it was, it seems to have been a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech, based on the length and the spider Queen's reaction.
* A minor Headscratcher, but why did Ninetails [[spoiler: have to cover its eye with hair while it was pretending to be Rao?]] Supposedly, it's to hide its actual lack of one, but couldn't it just claim that it was attacked by demons[[spoiler: (as the real Rao was before her death)]] and lost an eye?
** Perhaps because she didn't want there to be ''any'' flaws in her disguise. The real Rao didn't have a missing eye, so even if Ninetails did use an attack as an excuse, it might still cause suspicions... although, I have to wonder why she didn't try to make the beads the same color, but that probably wouldn't have been as noticeable.
* This troper is bothered that a lot of people assume Amaterasu has a "real" form (barring the Shiranui form). People reference what the monk said, forgetting that it was simply a comparison (like say, you'd compare a rose to a beautiful woman). He didn't see her "true" form.
** Because Amaterasu is depicted as a beautiful woman in a lot of real-life mythology, and is also able to take the form of a white wolf. Whether this applies to Ammy in the game, thinking that she's currently in her wolf form and not her "true" form isn't too farfetched.
* How does Rao/Ninetails go to Queen Himiko's room? There was a lava pit in front of the room!
** She probably just jumped over it, or used some kind of magic, just like you did with the Fire Tablet. Hey, being a ridiculously large demon fox can be good for a few things.
* When you fight Ninetails, and each of her tails divide, who are the other people that each of the tails takes the form of? Are they supposed to be past victims, or something? Also, how in the world is Ninetails, a fox, ''bigger'' than Amaterasu, a fully grown ''wolf'', even in her true form?
** Amaterasu is a God incarnated into a normal-sized wolf (or wolf statue). Ninetails is a kitsune, a nine-tailed spirit fox, which would make him/her capable of much more than just increasing its size. Also, the game developers probably wanted that boss-feeling for you to be the [[IncrediblyLamePun underdog]]
** The people that form from each of Ninetails' tails are the Tube Foxes from the Fox Rods you obtain in the Water Dragon's belly. In the belly of the beast, you beat the Tube Foxes and they turn into the Fox Rods, which Rao takes back. Ninetails now has full power, and the Tube Foxes, like Ninetails herself, can turn into Rao. As for the size difference, Ninetails is a demon first and foremost. Just because she looks like a fox doesn't mean she actually is one.
* Ninetails' story goes that she lost her Fox Rods to the Water Dragon, and you fight the Tube Foxes which turn into the Fox Rods. It looks to me like the Fox Rods contain the nine tails that Ninetails uses to make up her fully powered "Fake God" form later on, as opposed to her one-tailed form after you beat her tails. So when Ninetails killed Rao, Ninetails must have been reduced to her one tail since she'd fought and lost to the Water Dragon. Why does she have all nine in the flashback, then?
** Ninetails is a shapeshifter. She could have created eight more tails that had no effect on her power, just for the purposes of being more frightening.
** Her real form is more demonic: it's basically just a fox with glowing eyes.
* Also, why does Crimson Helm have a place on the Ark of Yamato? You could make a case that the Spider Queen was one of the original demons on the Ark, but Crimson Helm was born long after it crashed.
** It's alluded to that Blight and Ninetails were born from Orochi's defeat, so in that regard, neither of them should have a place on the Ark as well.
** It's not about who was there originally - it's about whose spirits were drawn there after their deaths. Doesn't explain the neatly matching wall carvings... Maybe Yami added them?
* If the idea behind your divine weapons is that they judge and banish evil, then how come they can hurt [[spoiler: Nagi]]?
** For that matter, how was [[spoiler: Ninetails, a powerful demon possessing Rao's body]] capable of carrying Prayer Slips?
** Nobody's totally perfect, which may just explain why your weapons can hurt [[spoiler: Nagi]]. [[FridgeBrilliance It also explains how a regular mortal has such high health - he almost totally pure, but just not quite.]]
* Just what was the point of "locating" Oni Island? From your first conversation with Himiko, it sounds like you would need to know the location of the island well before it actually appears there, because the preparations would take a long time. And yet, mere minutes after Himiko tells you the location, you're standing on the island. And Oni Island only shifts position once per day at sunset, so they should've been able to figure out where it was 24 hours before it changed location just by using their eyes. Why did Himiko need to spend weeks praying and then [[spoiler:die, sealing her soul in the crystal ball]] when they could've just asked the merchant at North Ryoshima Coast where it was, or, you know, just looked themselves? Following that logic, what's the big rush in getting to the island? Couldn't they have just hung out near the ocean at sunset every night, see where the island appeared, and when it appeared in a place close enough to get to, just do the Water Dragon thing and have a full 24 hours until it shifts?
** EDIT: There's more. The plot straight up breaks the rules it established with Oni Island, because when you're running to save Rao, you should be able to look back and see Oni Island just a little ways away from Watcher's Cape. And yet, it's way off in the distance. It's only until Himiko "locates" the island that it moves into position, even though there was absolutely nothing about your conversation with her that indicated that all of her praying would actually move Oni Island.
----
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
n
16th Jan '17 1:59:00 AM nightelf37
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** No one sees Ammy ''for what she actually is'', you mean.
15th Nov '16 8:34:06 PM Superfield
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** EDIT: There's more. The plot straight up breaks the rules it established with Oni Island, because when you're running to save Rao, you should be able to look back and see Oni Island just a little ways away from Watcher's Cape. And yet, it's way off in the distance. It's only until Himiko "locates" the island that it moves into position, even though there was absolutely nothing about your conversation with her that indicated that all of her praying would move actually move Oni Island.

to:

** EDIT: There's more. The plot straight up breaks the rules it established with Oni Island, because when you're running to save Rao, you should be able to look back and see Oni Island just a little ways away from Watcher's Cape. And yet, it's way off in the distance. It's only until Himiko "locates" the island that it moves into position, even though there was absolutely nothing about your conversation with her that indicated that all of her praying would move actually move Oni Island.
26th Apr '16 10:55:10 AM Serasia
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** It seems kind of nice when you think that walls are everywhere, so a God is always protecting you. That's the main principle of Shintoism; everything has a spirit and could be a God, so that's why Japanese people say "I'm home!" or "I'm going out!" even if they live alone. Because the gods can hear them.
3rd Feb '16 10:35:53 AM DarkastKiller
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** There was a timeskip after you beat Orochi, I thought that was obvious...
3rd Feb '16 10:14:01 AM DarkastKiller
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*** ...she's a hot dog?

to:

*** ...[[IncrediblyLamePun she's a hot dog?dog?]]
8th Dec '15 7:51:44 PM AKITN
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** This is old, but anyway. I recently went through this part (replaying past favorites), and I'm pretty sure he said that his inner eye "lets him see the true form of others", and when he speaks to Amaterasu, he says that she is "a maiden most fair", and continues to refer to her as such until he moves on. Also, Issun only ''seems'' like a bug when compared to the "normal" size; the Poncles basically ''are'' just miniature humans, so his comparison as "a little booger" is fitting--he's minuscule, the priest would still realize his true appearance due to his inner eye, and he's a booger of a guy.
7th Nov '15 12:22:01 AM Superfield
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** EDIT: There's more. The plot straight up breaks the rules it established with Oni Island, because when you're running to save Rao, you should be able to look back and see Oni Island just a little ways away from Watcher's Cape. And yet, it's way off in the distance. It's only until Himiko "locates" the island that it moves into position, even though there was absolutely nothing about your conversation with her that indicated that all of her praying would move actually move Oni Island.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.Okami