History Headscratchers / LexLuthorManOfSteel

8th Mar '18 10:12:53 PM nombretomado
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#2 is an overreaction on Superman's part, true, but hardly an incredibly [[TVTropesDrinkingGame egregious]] one -- it might not be a crime to possess kryptonite, but Batman essentially going behind Superman's back off ''Lex Luthor'' of all people is still a huge dick move on Batman's part (kind of like how, even if it's not a crime, my best friend taking something that could kill me and only me from my worst enemy to keep me in check is a pretty sucky thing to do, not matter how much you can justify it), so it's not entirely unreasonable that Superman would be a bit pissed. Plus, Superman basically roughs Batman up a bit and punches him in the nose, when he could have easily turned him into a smear on the wall; an overreaction, sure, and evidence that Superman is not perfect, but not exactly conclusive evidence that he's a hop, skip and a jump from a complete FaceHeelTurn; more evidence that he's (not entirely unreasonably) a bit pissed off at Batman.\\

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#2 is an overreaction on Superman's part, true, but hardly an incredibly [[TVTropesDrinkingGame [[DrinkingGame/TVTropes egregious]] one -- it might not be a crime to possess kryptonite, but Batman essentially going behind Superman's back off ''Lex Luthor'' of all people is still a huge dick move on Batman's part (kind of like how, even if it's not a crime, my best friend taking something that could kill me and only me from my worst enemy to keep me in check is a pretty sucky thing to do, not matter how much you can justify it), so it's not entirely unreasonable that Superman would be a bit pissed. Plus, Superman basically roughs Batman up a bit and punches him in the nose, when he could have easily turned him into a smear on the wall; an overreaction, sure, and evidence that Superman is not perfect, but not exactly conclusive evidence that he's a hop, skip and a jump from a complete FaceHeelTurn; more evidence that he's (not entirely unreasonably) a bit pissed off at Batman.\\
3rd Apr '16 9:33:05 AM TheOutsider
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*** It should be pointed out that if Bruce Wayne goes and challenges Superman and is hurt or killed in any way, then not only would Superman have killed one of the richest most famous philanthropists in the world and a pillar of Gotham's community, he would also have annihilated one of Lex's business rivals. Xanatos is impressed.

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*** It should be pointed out that if Bruce Wayne goes and challenges Superman and is hurt or killed in any way, then not only would Superman have killed one of the richest most famous philanthropists in the world and a pillar of Gotham's community, he would also have annihilated one of Lex's business rivals. Xanatos is impressed.impressed.
** I was looking at that sequence earlier, and I noticed two things in them that might shed some light on this issue. First, Superman looks far more human and less monstruous than in the rest of the story - in fact, he even has human eyes in the first panel he appears -, which is strange since [[PerspectiveFlip we've been seeing him from Lex's distorted perspective]]. Second, there's a page where he drags Batman in the air with his grappling gun and then drops him, [[spoiler: which looks just like when [[RidiculouslyHumanRobot Hope]] drags and drops the Toyman at Luthor's command; it even has the same three-panel structure, and the first and last panels of each scene are very similar in both pages (flying superhuman dragging regular human along, close-up of open right hand letting said regular human drop)]]. So maybe [[spoiler: that's not really Superman, just one of those clones/robot duplicates Lex usually builds]].
9th Nov '13 4:56:09 PM Rayfire
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*** I was thinking about this again, wondering if Lex needs to realize Bruce is Batman to make his scheme work. Given that Lex's main tools are manipulation, intimidation, and later [[spoiler: terrorism and murder]], maybe he expected that Bruce would challenge Superman and get himself killed in the process. With Bruce Wayne out of the picture, Lex would be able to buy the discovery from a more amenable CEO. In this case, the last look on Lex's face in that issue isn't his way of showing contentment, it's surprise to be hearing from a still living Bruce Wayne.

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*** I was thinking about this again, wondering if Lex needs to realize Bruce is Batman to make his scheme work. Given that Lex's main tools are manipulation, intimidation, and later [[spoiler: terrorism and murder]], maybe he expected that Bruce would challenge Superman and get himself killed in the process. With Bruce Wayne out of the picture, Lex would be able to buy the discovery from a more amenable CEO. In this case, the last look on Lex's face in that issue isn't his way of showing contentment, it's surprise to be hearing from a still living Bruce Wayne.Wayne.
***It should be pointed out that if Bruce Wayne goes and challenges Superman and is hurt or killed in any way, then not only would Superman have killed one of the richest most famous philanthropists in the world and a pillar of Gotham's community, he would also have annihilated one of Lex's business rivals. Xanatos is impressed.
9th Jul '13 8:56:25 PM DoctorNemesis
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**** Heck, this interpretation ''doesn't even need Superman to be there''. Let's assume Batman has been doped by Poison Ivy. He's hallucinating the entire fight with Superman. His injuries are sustained because he starts hallucinating while he's leaping around the rooftops of Gotham, and consequently takes a tumble, and he's still in a suggestible state when he calls Luthor. For all we know, there's an off-screen panel with Bruce Wayne waking up the next morning with a horrible headache and no memory of what happened the night before.
12th Apr '13 9:26:43 PM thebeej
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*** This interpretation adds an interesting layer of UnreliableNarrator to the fight scene between Batman and Superman; taking this interpretation, Batman is influenced into ''believing'' that Superman is hostile and attacking him, when for all we know Superman, while perhaps still a bit pissed for reasons outlined above, is actually trying to calm him down and ''reason'' with him, and is ultimately forced to violence to try and snap Batman out of it.

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*** This interpretation adds an interesting layer of UnreliableNarrator to the fight scene between Batman and Superman; taking this interpretation, Batman is influenced into ''believing'' that Superman is hostile and attacking him, when for all we know Superman, while perhaps still a bit pissed for reasons outlined above, is actually trying to calm him down and ''reason'' with him, and is ultimately forced to violence to try and snap Batman out of it.it.
*** I was thinking about this again, wondering if Lex needs to realize Bruce is Batman to make his scheme work. Given that Lex's main tools are manipulation, intimidation, and later [[spoiler: terrorism and murder]], maybe he expected that Bruce would challenge Superman and get himself killed in the process. With Bruce Wayne out of the picture, Lex would be able to buy the discovery from a more amenable CEO. In this case, the last look on Lex's face in that issue isn't his way of showing contentment, it's surprise to be hearing from a still living Bruce Wayne.
7th Mar '13 5:44:25 AM DoctorNemesis
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** An alternative option; Lex and Bruce are eating dinner, and there's this redhead in a green dress who keeps popping up throughout the panels. Lex has already demonstrated he's not above using remarkably manipulative tactics to get what he wants. Who says that doesn't extend to hiring someone to make Bruce more open to suggestion when he's incredibly vulnerable? I mean, Bruce knows the chef, and he's got an image to protect. He's not about to start checking his food for mind control agents. She never made it into Joker's comic, so why couldn't Lex figure out a way to get help from Poison Ivy? With Ivy's plant based brand of control, all Lex has to do is suggest that things would be a good idea. He'd suggest that it would be interesting to challenge Superman, and Bruce goes off and does it. He suggests that it would be a good idea to hand something over to his labs, and Bruce follows through on that too. Finally, there's the semi-romantic aspect of Luthor's proposal (the ring box with the Kryptonite). Not only does he appear to have hired Poison Ivy, he's following her M.O. to ensure that he gets what he wants.

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** An alternative option; Lex and Bruce are eating dinner, and there's this redhead in a green dress who keeps popping up throughout the panels. Lex has already demonstrated he's not above using remarkably manipulative tactics to get what he wants. Who says that doesn't extend to hiring someone to make Bruce more open to suggestion when he's incredibly vulnerable? I mean, Bruce knows the chef, and he's got an image to protect. He's not about to start checking his food for mind control agents. She never made it into Joker's comic, so why couldn't Lex figure out a way to get help from Poison Ivy? With Ivy's plant based brand of control, all Lex has to do is suggest that things would be a good idea. He'd suggest that it would be interesting to challenge Superman, and Bruce goes off and does it. He suggests that it would be a good idea to hand something over to his labs, and Bruce follows through on that too. Finally, there's the semi-romantic aspect of Luthor's proposal (the ring box with the Kryptonite). Not only does he appear to have hired Poison Ivy, he's following her M.O. to ensure that he gets what he wants.wants.
*** This interpretation adds an interesting layer of UnreliableNarrator to the fight scene between Batman and Superman; taking this interpretation, Batman is influenced into ''believing'' that Superman is hostile and attacking him, when for all we know Superman, while perhaps still a bit pissed for reasons outlined above, is actually trying to calm him down and ''reason'' with him, and is ultimately forced to violence to try and snap Batman out of it.
18th Feb '13 10:30:27 PM thebeej
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** An alternative option; Lex and Bruce are eating dinner, and there's this redhead in a green dress who keeps popping up throughout the panels. Lex has already demonstrated he's not above using remarkably manipulative tactics to get what he wants. Who says that doesn't extend to hiring someone to make Bruce more open to suggestion when he's incredibly vulnerable? (I mean, Bruce knows the chef, and he's got an image to protect. He's not about to start checking his food for mind control agents). She never made it into Joker's comic. Why couldn't Lex figure out a way to get help from Poison Ivy?

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** An alternative option; Lex and Bruce are eating dinner, and there's this redhead in a green dress who keeps popping up throughout the panels. Lex has already demonstrated he's not above using remarkably manipulative tactics to get what he wants. Who says that doesn't extend to hiring someone to make Bruce more open to suggestion when he's incredibly vulnerable? (I I mean, Bruce knows the chef, and he's got an image to protect. He's not about to start checking his food for mind control agents). agents. She never made it into Joker's comic. Why comic, so why couldn't Lex figure out a way to get help from Poison Ivy?Ivy? With Ivy's plant based brand of control, all Lex has to do is suggest that things would be a good idea. He'd suggest that it would be interesting to challenge Superman, and Bruce goes off and does it. He suggests that it would be a good idea to hand something over to his labs, and Bruce follows through on that too. Finally, there's the semi-romantic aspect of Luthor's proposal (the ring box with the Kryptonite). Not only does he appear to have hired Poison Ivy, he's following her M.O. to ensure that he gets what he wants.
18th Feb '13 10:25:40 PM thebeej
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** There are also a few other hints throughout that Luthor does ''indeed'' know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, or at least suspects; in any case, being the super-genius that he is, it wouldn't be outside of the realms of possibility for him to have his suspicions at the very least.

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** There are also a few other hints throughout that Luthor does ''indeed'' know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, or at least suspects; in any case, being the super-genius that he is, it wouldn't be outside of the realms of possibility for him to have his suspicions at the very least.least.
** An alternative option; Lex and Bruce are eating dinner, and there's this redhead in a green dress who keeps popping up throughout the panels. Lex has already demonstrated he's not above using remarkably manipulative tactics to get what he wants. Who says that doesn't extend to hiring someone to make Bruce more open to suggestion when he's incredibly vulnerable? (I mean, Bruce knows the chef, and he's got an image to protect. He's not about to start checking his food for mind control agents). She never made it into Joker's comic. Why couldn't Lex figure out a way to get help from Poison Ivy?
20th Jan '13 6:56:22 AM DoctorNemesis
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Added DiffLines:

** There are also a few other hints throughout that Luthor does ''indeed'' know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, or at least suspects; in any case, being the super-genius that he is, it wouldn't be outside of the realms of possibility for him to have his suspicions at the very least.
16th Apr '12 2:10:46 AM DoctorNemesis
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Ultimately though, I think we have to go with (a) we're getting this from Luthor's [[UnreliableNarrator inherently unreliable perspective]], meaning we're getting a slightly distorted version of what happens (aside from this, we only see and hear what Luthor sees and hears, meaning that we don't get the full picture of what or wasn't said between Superman and Batman) and (b) the work clearly states that while Luthor might have a point, that doesn't make him ''right'', exactly; yes, Superman punches Batman, but we also see a whole lot of him flying around helping people, catching criminals, saving them from Toyman robots, etc. Luthor, on the other hand, doesn't do ''anything'' which doesn't ultimately end up in a whole load of Metropolis being blown up and loads of people being killed, and while he makes his motives ''sound'' all grandiose and benevolent when you get down to it they basically boiled down to 'making Superman look bad'. So while he may have a point that Superman has the ''potential'' to go bad and needs to be watched (which could be said about anyone, really), Luthor is wilfully ignoring the fact that he's already much, ''much'' worse.

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Ultimately though, I think we have to go with (a) we're getting this from Luthor's [[UnreliableNarrator inherently unreliable perspective]], meaning we're getting a slightly distorted version of what happens (aside from this, we only see and hear what Luthor sees and hears, meaning that we don't get the full picture of what or wasn't said between Superman and Batman) and (b) the work clearly states that while Luthor might have a point, that doesn't make him ''right'', exactly; yes, Superman punches Batman, but we also see a whole lot of him flying around helping people, catching criminals, saving them from Toyman robots, etc. Luthor, on the other hand, doesn't do ''anything'' which doesn't ultimately end up in a whole load of Metropolis being blown up and loads of people being killed, and while he makes his motives ''sound'' all grandiose and benevolent when you get down to it they basically boiled down to 'making Superman look bad'. So while he may have a point that Superman has the ''potential'' to go bad and needs to be watched (which could be said about anyone, really), Luthor is wilfully ignoring the fact that he's already much, ''much'' worse. Superman might have the potential to be a would-be tyrannical world-conqueror (although I'd argue that even given what we see he's clearly more than a whim away from being one), but Luthor already ''is'' a would-be tyrannical world conqueror, no matter how he dresses it up.
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