History Headscratchers / LegacyOfKain

17th Dec '16 4:34:43 PM Lordmalgo
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** Humor aside, Raziel is a supernatural creature, so his ability to speak is due to magic.
29th Oct '16 4:22:07 PM mlsmithca
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*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel was much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break. Although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil (or to have done things that must have seemed necessarily evil to them, such as making vampires out of humans in order to serve the Pillars), a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been). We don't know how many of them became evil and how many offed themselves in despair, but the latter must have been a large number, judging by the fact that it was remarked upon in the murals as a major historical event. This indicates that a significant number of them were decent enough to hate being what they were, and were therefore not just parasites.

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*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel was much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's Smart money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break. Although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil (or to have done things that must have seemed necessarily evil to them, such as making vampires out of humans in order to serve the Pillars), a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been). We don't know how many of them became evil and how many offed themselves in despair, but the latter must have been a large number, judging by the fact that it was remarked upon in the murals as a major historical event. This indicates that a significant number of them were decent enough to hate being what they were, and were therefore not just parasites.
25th Oct '16 7:54:59 AM aurast
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* If history can be changed at the point where two versions of the Soul Reaver meet, then why did Moebius go near Raziel when he repaired the sword? He truly risked his entire existence at that point, and all he did was reveal that he serves the Elder God.
7th Oct '16 5:01:36 PM ArtoriusRex
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*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break. Although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil (or to have done things that must have seemed necessarily evil to them, such as making vampires out of humans in order to serve the Pillars), a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been). We don't know how many of them became evil and how many offed themselves in despair, but the latter must have been a large number, judging by the fact that it was remarked upon in the murals as a major historical event. This indicates that a significant number of them were decent enough to hate being what they were, and were therefore not just parasites.

to:

*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel was much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break. Although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil (or to have done things that must have seemed necessarily evil to them, such as making vampires out of humans in order to serve the Pillars), a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been). We don't know how many of them became evil and how many offed themselves in despair, but the latter must have been a large number, judging by the fact that it was remarked upon in the murals as a major historical event. This indicates that a significant number of them were decent enough to hate being what they were, and were therefore not just parasites.
7th Oct '16 5:01:12 PM ArtoriusRex
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*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break, and please remember that although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil, a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been).

to:

*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break, and please remember that although break. Although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil, evil (or to have done things that must have seemed necessarily evil to them, such as making vampires out of humans in order to serve the Pillars), a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been).been). We don't know how many of them became evil and how many offed themselves in despair, but the latter must have been a large number, judging by the fact that it was remarked upon in the murals as a major historical event. This indicates that a significant number of them were decent enough to hate being what they were, and were therefore not just parasites.
7th Oct '16 4:56:49 PM ArtoriusRex
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*** It's probably also worth pointing out that Raziel much more likely condmening ''why and how'' the Sarafan do what they do, rather than condemning ''what'' they do. Vampires preying upon humans need to be stopped, sure, no argument there. But the Sarafan are fanatics who take an inordinate ''joy'' in the slaughter of the vampires. They are not pious men doing what needs to be done in the name of justice and righteousness and the sanctity and preservation of life. They are, plain and simple, violent fanatics who have risen to the top of the one organization in their lifetimes that gives them the greatest license to indulge in their violence and fanaticism. From Raziel's own description, the highest-ranking members of the Sarafan brotherhood (himself included) were as fanatically loyal to Kain as they had been to the Sarafan cause. They would always serve someone who could give them power and influence (and an opportunity for wanton and unchecked violence) with the utmost devotion. In the age of the Sarafan, it was the Sarafan brotherhood. In the age of Kain's empire, it was Kain. There was otherwise no difference in personality between their human selves and their vampire selves. Or to put it another way: Do you sincerely believe that, should they have succeeded in wiping out the vampires completely, they would have gone on to live normal lives in peace and harmony? Or does it seem more likely, from what we see of them even as humans in ''Soul Reaver 2'', that they would have then turned their attention to some other enemy that needed to be violently wiped out? ThisTroper's money is on the latter, and that is manifestly ''not'' "only" fighting against a predatory species. The vampires, at least, have the excuse of operating under a curse they have no idea how to break, and please remember that although many of the Ancient Vampires do seem to have turned evil, a large number committed suicide in horror once they understood what they had become (sterile, requiring blood to survive, and utterly cut off from their god; and please remember on that last point that they were unaware just how much of a blessing that would have been).
28th Sep '16 2:05:05 PM finalfaw
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** Possibly the Sluagh are actually the souls of the dead that avoided being eaten by the EGs agents, human souls devolved after losing so much of themselves that they become hungry for the fresh souls full of what they had lost.
11th Jul '16 11:32:56 AM DoPo
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** We could assume that normal humans in Nosgoth are actually quite a lot tougher than real life humans. Well, in reality, I think the answer is that the game wouldn't have been challenging otherwise, but whatever.\\
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It's not like the humans are really shown as ''weak'' even if unintentionally. Probably the worst examples come from Blood Omen 2 where Kain was able to ''impale a lowly peasant to the hilt of his sword, then throw them on the ground and they wouldn't as much as limp''. Also, literally putting a blade ''through somebody's brain'' wouldn't kill them. But [=BO2=] was also...umm, not that realistic in many other respects - it is, frankly, a bit surprising that decapitating somebody isn't OnlyAFleshWound. In [=SR2=] we see that the Reaver blade, which is the ultimate weapon that the Ancients devised (well, against the Hylden, but still) isn't that effective against people - you really have to give those Sarafan a very good beating until they go down. And all the while their very blood is being sucked right out of their veins. Kain also uses the same blade throughout Defiance and humans don't seem to be ''that'' bothered that they are being hit with a mysterious sword that empties their veins with each strike. Even when the sword starts causing them to be on fire they seem to take it in stride (all things considering, that is). Don't know about you but I'd certainly look a little more hurt if somebody hits me with a giant sword, my blood escapes through the wound and I am also set ablaze afterwards. Just seems like something that would hurt a bit more than depicted in Defiance. Not to mention that Kain himself is not a pushover, either - he is literally more than a thousand years old and also literally inhumanly strong. I think any normal human shouldn't really survive a hit from him regardless of whether Kain is using a sword which is very, very good at killing or not.\\
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Bottom line is that - yes, I believe that humans shouldn't really stand a chance. Blood Omen 1 is probably the most "realistic" in the way of how tough the humans would probably be - the rest of the games don't seem to be as accurate. Yet, I'd call that a variation of GameplayAndStorySegregation where the combat gameplay does not really show the real power of either Raziel/Kain, or their (human? all?) enemies, or both.
15th Jun '16 4:08:03 AM aurast
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** The falls of the Pillars was orchestrated mostly by the Hylden, who don't specifically need Nupraptor and the gang; technically speaking, they just need to corrupt a group of Pillar Guardians eventually. So the situation would probably end up just as bad, just on a different schedule. Also, probably not a good idea to stop the one event that everyone's current existence depends on, "history abors a paradox" and all that.

to:

** The falls of the Pillars was orchestrated mostly by the Hylden, who don't specifically need Nupraptor and the gang; technically speaking, they just need to corrupt a group of Pillar Guardians eventually. So the situation would probably end up just as bad, just on a different schedule. Also, probably not a good idea to stop the one event that everyone's current existence depends on, "history abors abhors a paradox" and all that.



** The irratent is expelled as Kain puts it, so sword Raziel was deleted from existence to cope with the paradox until history was changed so that it could be purified and used to heal Kain.
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>

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** The irratent irritant is expelled expelled, as Kain puts it, so sword Raziel was deleted from existence to cope with the paradox until history was changed so that it could be purified and used to heal Kain.
* If Raziel is strong enough to move gigantic blocks of stone with his bare hands, how can humans give him any difficulty? Can he not simply shatter blades and shields with a single punch? Shouldn't he be able to kill a human with a single swing of his weapon?
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
19th Feb '16 1:44:32 PM Rory1989
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** The irratent is expelled as Kain puts it, so sword Raziel was deleted from existence to cope with the paradox until history was changed so that it could be purified and used to heal Kain.
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