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* I'd say there's a reasonable chance it's the Lieutenant-Keeper of the Front Door, who I'd peg at number two. The Front Door is practically its own Demesne within the House (albeit sparely populated). The Architect's primary rule was "no interference with the Secondary Realms", and the Lieutenant-Keeper has a major part in enforcing this rule by controlling the traffic between the House and the Secondary Realms. All of the House except the Incomparable Gardens is dedicated to recording the activities in the Secondary Realms, but are not necessary for their continued existence (like the Incomparable Gardens) or their protection from Denizens (like the Front Door). Furthermore, the order of creation was the Incomparable Gardens, the Secondary Realms, and then the rest of the House. Presumably, it was possible to travel between the Incomparable Gardens and the Secondary Realms before the rest of the House was created, and so the Front Door may have existed at that point; the position of Lieutenant-Keeper may be older than the Masters of the other Demesnes. This to me would indicate that the position of the Lieutenant-Keeper is the second most important and ancient of positions within the house, both of which would put it at second in precedence within the House.
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**Actually, each of the Trustees had their own respective reasons for not telling him:
***In the cases of Mr. Monday and Grim Tuesday, overconfidence that some mortal child chosen by chance and circumstance can't possibly best them.
***Drowned Wednesday DID want to fulfill her part of the Will by the time of the story, so telling Arthur about what would happen resulting from that would be counter to her aims.
***Sir Thursday is devoted to Superior Saturday's orders, only keeping to his part of the Breaking of the Will because of that. It's possible from this that not all the Trustees were even apprised of the fact that the fulfillment of the Will would mean their destruction, or somehow many of them forgot over the 10,000 years between the Breaking and the series.
***As for Friday and Saturday, they just did not have any ****'s to give, being obsessed with experiencing more mortal lives and breaking into the Incomparable Gardens even IF the rest of the universe gets destroyed in the process, respectively.
***And with Sunday, we come full circle, with overconfidence again. His sin being ''pride,'' he assumed that with his control over the 7th Key--explicitly the Key that makes the others look like Fischer-Price toys, and at the absolute height of its powers in the Incomparable Gardens, his home turf--even with how far Arthur had come he couldn't possibly defeat the most powerful Denizen of all, so there was no reason to resort to telling him about the true intent of the Will.
***In the cases of Mr. Monday and Grim Tuesday, overconfidence that some mortal child chosen by chance and circumstance can't possibly best them.
***Drowned Wednesday DID want to fulfill her part of the Will by the time of the story, so telling Arthur about what would happen resulting from that would be counter to her aims.
***Sir Thursday is devoted to Superior Saturday's orders, only keeping to his part of the Breaking of the Will because of that. It's possible from this that not all the Trustees were even apprised of the fact that the fulfillment of the Will would mean their destruction, or somehow many of them forgot over the 10,000 years between the Breaking and the series.
***As for Friday and Saturday, they just did not have any ****'s to give, being obsessed with experiencing more mortal lives and breaking into the Incomparable Gardens even IF the rest of the universe gets destroyed in the process, respectively.
***And with Sunday, we come full circle, with overconfidence again. His sin being ''pride,'' he assumed that with his control over the 7th Key--explicitly the Key that makes the others look like Fischer-Price toys, and at the absolute height of its powers in the Incomparable Gardens, his home turf--even with how far Arthur had come he couldn't possibly defeat the most powerful Denizen of all, so there was no reason to resort to telling him about the true intent of the Will.
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[[folder:Why didn't the Trustees warn Arthur?]]
*The Trustees are very much against Arthur gaining their Keys and releasing the Will, presumably knowing what will happen if the Will is done. So why do they not try to inform him of this instead of sending wave after wave of enemies against him and the Secondary Realms? Is this a CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot or am I missing something?
*The Trustees are very much against Arthur gaining their Keys and releasing the Will, presumably knowing what will happen if the Will is done. So why do they not try to inform him of this instead of sending wave after wave of enemies against him and the Secondary Realms? Is this a CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot or am I missing something?
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** The relationship between the House and the Secondary Realms is actually explained quite succinctly in the ''first'' book, although naturally most readers don't realize its significance at the time. The Will flat-out lies and tells Arthur that he will die if he goes back to the Secondary Realms because he was "destined" to, so part of Arthur's goal is to find and alter his House record. When he finally does get the record, Mister Monday explains to him that there was actually never any need to do so, Arthur's survival doesn't depend on the records, and the House record has already been updated to reflect his survival in the Secondary Realms. In other words, the House records are just that--records, and destroying them won't make the universe disappear anymore than destroying Wikipedia would make Earth disappear. In a later book, I think it's Scamandros who says you need to have a Key to actually alter a record in such a way that changes the Secondary Realms, which makes sense, because they're the powers of creation, after all.
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** You're forgetting that it's not Monday's idea to put him in the Coal Cellar--it's Dusk's, who is an agent of the Will and knew perfectly well that Arthur could easily escape the Coal Cellar after talking to the Old One--which he even suggests. Monday is extremely slothful and unable to come up with ideas of his own; don't forget we also find out he's being manipulated at least to a small degree by the Will. As to why Arthur doesn't agree to hand over the Key, every time Monday has seen him he's tried to kill him, Monday is known to be treacherous and unreliable, the Will has already told Arthur that he's a threat to the Universe, there's nothing stopping him from going back on his word and killing Arthur immediately after getting the Key back...there's loads of reasons why Arthur doesn't want to bargain with him.
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* Has to be the Architect. She's not ''technically'' dead at this point, so there's no reason why she would have been stripped of her precedence.
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[[folder:Who is number one?]]
At the beginning of Sir Thursday, Arthur is stated as having Sixth precedence in the house. We assume that 5,4,3 and 2 are the remaining Trustees, so who is one? The Architect - in an honorary semi-posthmuos position?
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* In the first book Arthur mostly enters the house in order to find a cure. Why then does he never try to offer his half of the key to Monday in exchange for a cure to the disease which was ravaging his hometown? Even assuming he doesn't trust Monday at all, he could still use it as a 'plan B' when he got captured and was about to be thrown in the coal cellar (as he didn't knew how easy it would be to escape from the coal cellar), or could only promise to hand over the key after he is certain the plague is cured.
On the other side I also find it odd that Monday didn't really try to promise him riches or power in exchange for his key (he could always go back on his words and it would be much quicker than their 'throwing him into the coal cellar and waiting till he gives me back to key out of his hardships' plan.
On the other side I also find it odd that Monday didn't really try to promise him riches or power in exchange for his key (he could always go back on his words and it would be much quicker than their 'throwing him into the coal cellar and waiting till he gives me back to key out of his hardships' plan.
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* In the first book Arthur mostly enters the house in order to find a cure. Why then does he never try to offer his half of the key to Monday in exchange for a cure to the disease which was ravaging his hometown? Even assuming he doesn't trust Monday at all, he could still use it as a 'plan B' when he got captured and was about to be thrown in the coal cellar (as he didn't knew how easy it would be to escape from the coal cellar), or could only promise to hand over the key after he is certain the plague is cured.
cured. On the other side I also find it odd that Monday didn't really try to promise him riches or power in exchange for his key (he could always go back on his words and it would be much quicker than their 'throwing him into the coal cellar and waiting till he gives me back to key out of his hardships' plan.
plan.)
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[[folder:No negotiations with Monday?]]
* In the first book Arthur mostly enters the house in order to find a cure. Why then does he never try to offer his half of the key to Monday in exchange for a cure to the disease which was ravaging his hometown? Even assuming he doesn't trust Monday at all, he could still use it as a 'plan B' when he got captured and was about to be thrown in the coal cellar (as he didn't knew how easy it would be to escape from the coal cellar), or could only promise to hand over the key after he is certain the plague is cured.
On the other side I also find it odd that Monday didn't really try to promise him riches or power in exchange for his key (he could always go back on his words and it would be much quicker than their 'throwing him into the coal cellar and waiting till he gives me back to key out of his hardships' plan.
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** That was actually their second question. Their two questions were, "Why do you want to go to Feverfew's secret harbor?" and "What did the Will say happened to the Architect?". Arthur holds back on his third question until Saturday, and the rats do not get the opportunity to ask their third in return.
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** The Captain Keeper is described in the first book as male, so it's unlikely to be the Architect. More likely he was just some random Denizen who was killed by Saturday so that she could have greater power over the Front Door.
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** I think their third question was 'What were you told happened to the Architect?' which culminated in their theory that the Trustees kiled her
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** It's possible he was still on Earth at the end, which means Pravuil could still be out in the Secondary Realms for a sequel series. Also I hope at least some of the Border Sea denizens happened to be on a Secondary Realm ocean.
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** A better Headscratcher is why the Rats didn't ask Arthur ''their'' third question. Unless I missed it?
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** The Border Sea was designed as a way to transport goods from the Secondary Realms into the House, wasn't it?
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** The House was invented ''after'' the Secondary Realms, so clearly they don't need the records to exist. It was designed to keep the Architect entertained. The only "foreshadowing" that destroying the records destroys the Secondary Realms comes from either Denizens who have no way of knowing if it's true or not, and Dame Primus, who is lying to manipulate Arthur.
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Folderized and formatting.
New entries on the bottom.
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[[folder:The Architect having children]]
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[[folder:The Architect having children]]
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*** Assuming she didn't consent.
*** Not to mention [[spoiler: that they are the same ''being''! And by that this troper means that they once were the same person and then parted, making them ''siblings'' in some freaky way! Let THAT sink in for a while.]]
*** Not to mention [[spoiler: that they are the same ''being''! And by that this troper means that they once were the same person and then parted, making them ''siblings'' in some freaky way! Let THAT sink in for a while.]]
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[[folder:Rats]]
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[[folder:Loose Ends]]
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*** Well, yeah, Pravuil did have some importance since he was the catalyst in that whole subplot, but it's still a fairly minor and underwhelming role relative to the buildup and mystery surrounding him. And the Mariner died because he touched the cage? So even opening the thing kills you? He only touched it with his trident, so why did he die? How does Lord Sunday not vaporize whenever he opens it, then? (And while it would be reasonable to say he never intends to open it, how in the world did the Reaper get in there in that case?) I'd also think that he'd warn Arthur a little more in that case, such as "If I open this for you I'm gonna die" rather than just being vague and saying "Are you sure you want me to help you?" The only other explanation that I have is that maybe it was because he was being kept alive because of his pact with Arthur via the medallion and once that was used up he died, but that still doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe he committed suicide like the Piper because he knew the Architect was going to destroy everything anyway?
*** Opening it with the Seventh Key probably neutralizes the disintergatey-powers. As for the Mariner, he didn't tell Arthur because he knew that Arthur wouldn't make him open it if he told him, and he thought opening it was worth the sacrifice, to defeat Sunday. (He may not have known that his mom was planning to end the universe).
*** The HARPOON (not trident) was part of the Mariner. It had the power to break the cage, but killed the Mariner in the process. The Mariner actually practically did say as much, as he changed the agreement from "I won't help you afterwards unless I feel like it" to "I will never help you again" and said "All stories must end," and "I feared it would come to this." Arthur was just in too much of a rush to deal with things.
*** Opening it with the Seventh Key probably neutralizes the disintergatey-powers. As for the Mariner, he didn't tell Arthur because he knew that Arthur wouldn't make him open it if he told him, and he thought opening it was worth the sacrifice, to defeat Sunday. (He may not have known that his mom was planning to end the universe).
*** The HARPOON (not trident) was part of the Mariner. It had the power to break the cage, but killed the Mariner in the process. The Mariner actually practically did say as much, as he changed the agreement from "I won't help you afterwards unless I feel like it" to "I will never help you again" and said "All stories must end," and "I feared it would come to this." Arthur was just in too much of a rush to deal with things.
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[[folder:Man with the china plate]]
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[[folder:Letting in the Piper]]
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* Why did the Architect entrust the House to the Trustees in the first place, why didn't she just pick a mortal, give him or her the keys and the Atlas and let nothing overun everything, what purpose did they serve. And where was she the last ten thousand years?
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[[folder:Entrusting the Trustees]]
* Why did the Architect entrust the House to the Trustees in the first place, why didn't she just pick a mortal, give him or her the keys and the Atlas and let nothing
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** Her Grandmother was a witch
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** Her Grandmother was a witchwitch.
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*** And since the Piper can control them, he could use their accumulated knowledge of the workings of the House against the Trustees. Washing between the ears meant they had less information the Piper could use if he ever came back, which he did.
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[[folder:Leaf as a sue]]
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[[folder:Border Sea and the Great Maze]]
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** This Troper always liked to think the Border Sea was just the House's pool... Or bathroom.
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** This Troper always liked to think the The Border Sea was could just be the House's pool... Or bathroom.
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** The series is taking place TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture
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** The series is taking place TwentyMinutesIntoTheFutureTwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture.
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*** Which means you don't need to check under the sofa cushions for the remote. Hmm...
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[[folder:Downer Ending]]
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*** Bittersweet yes, unsatisfying no. I thought it was brilliant.
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[[folder:Lieutenant Keeper]]
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** Also, the house was messed up at that stage. Particularly the lower house. By the time he returns in the seventh book, nearly all of it is controlled by the Will or at war, or both. Presumably Dame Primus promoted him off screen to resolve the issue.
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** He does ask them how to get into the Upper House as his third question. ''Saturday'', chapter 7.
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* Leaf is a bit of a Sue - she's brilliant at everything she tries, wheras Arthur is sort of useless for a lot of the books. Despite this, she never seems to get annoyed at the fact someone who, other than an accident of fate, is clearly less suited to the task than she is trying to save the world.
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* Leaf is a bit of a Sue - she's brilliant at everything she tries, wheras whereas Arthur is sort of useless for a lot of the books. Despite this, she never seems to get annoyed at the fact someone who, other than an accident of fate, is clearly less suited to the task than she is trying to save the world.
