History Headscratchers / JohnLennon

30th Jul '17 1:39:15 PM CaptEquinox
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* On a different note for the same song Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.

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* On a different note for the same song Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.this.
* And many people have pointed out that "imagine no possessions" conflicts with Lennon and Ono's massive wealth. When Music/NeilYoung [[http://thrasherswheat.org/jammin/lennon.htm sang "Imagine" for the Firemen's Fund tv special]] after the September 11, 2001 attacks, he changed "I wonder if you can" to "I wonder if ''I'' can", highlighting the hypocrisy of an artist worth over $65M singing such a line.
30th Jun '17 5:10:40 AM DoctorNemesis
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*** Well, you'd have to ask the OP that; I was just trying to clarify, I wasn't saying I agreed with them.

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*** Well, you'd have to ask the OP that; I was just trying to clarify, I wasn't saying I agreed with them.
30th Jun '17 5:09:44 AM DoctorNemesis
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* On a different note for the same song Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.

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\n*** Well, you'd have to ask the OP that; I was just trying to clarify, I wasn't saying I agreed with them.

* On a different note for the same song Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.
19th Dec '15 6:55:23 AM DoctorNemesis
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**** "everything is meaningless" OP sounds like one of those victims of religious propaganda who thinks that death is what gives meaning to life, what a pitiful joke!

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**** "everything is meaningless" OP sounds like one of those victims of religious propaganda who thinks that death is what gives meaning to life, what a pitiful joke!
19th Nov '15 2:43:00 PM calamondin
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* On a different note for the same song Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.

to:

**** "everything is meaningless" OP sounds like one of those victims of religious propaganda who thinks that death is what gives meaning to life, what a pitiful joke!

* On a different note for the same song Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.
17th Jan '15 9:01:11 AM Patachou
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* JohnLennon's ''Imagine''. Imagine everything is meaningless, and people only live for the moment. Plus, nothing to kill or die for? That means there's no freedom and no love. And this is supposed to be a HopeForABetterWorld song.

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* JohnLennon's ''Imagine''.Music/JohnLennon's ''Imagine'' from ''Music/{{Imagine}}''. Imagine everything is meaningless, and people only live for the moment. Plus, nothing to kill or die for? That means there's no freedom and no love. And this is supposed to be a HopeForABetterWorld song.



* On a different note for the same song DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.

to:

* On a different note for the same song DavidBowie Music/DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.
10th May '14 6:30:11 AM ading
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* On a different note for the same song DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.

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*** But the whole point of dying for something is that you eliminate a threat to it. If there are no threats to love or freedom, how can you kill or die for them? You already have them, and they're not going to be taken away.
* On a different note for the same song DavidBowie [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftjxN_KJoM did a cover]] why cant I buy this.
26th Apr '13 2:31:35 AM superawesomephoenix
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Added DiffLines:

** I think the OP was pointing out that most good things, such as freedom and love, are things people see as worth killing or dying for, not that they can only exist if you kill or die for them. A lot of romance stories revolve around the idea that love is worth dying for, after all.
17th Feb '13 7:19:25 PM LorienTheYounger
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Added DiffLines:

** It seems significant that the original person who posted this apparently thinks that freedom and love can't possibly exist without people killing each other or dying for them. When the song itself implores the listener to imagine a world where there could be love and freedom without death and destruction. Perhaps such a concept is beyond the boundaries of their imagination.
27th Oct '11 10:35:13 PM IHaveAHeadAche
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* I think John was coming out of his shell musically when it came to his solo career, but was unfortunately cut off before his real prime.
** John probably didn't put out any more or any less tripe than the other three, but the difference (and something that really JustBugsMe) is that TrueArtIsIncomprehensible, TrueArtSticksItToTheMan, and DeadArtistsAreBetter have combined to massively inflate his reputation... one could say ''over''-inflate. Paul was at least GenreSavvy enough to write "Silly Love Songs."
** Also, even though people saw John as a better artist, Paul is by far the most successful Beatle. He's outsold George, Ringo, AND John.
*** Although technically speaking George has had the biggest selling solo album -- ''All Things Must Pass'' is the only Beatles solo album to go 6x Platinum. Accumulatively Paul's sold a lot more, but then he's also released a lot more as well.
*** Interestingly, in the first 5 years after they broke up (before John essentially put his career on hold for to be a stay-at-home dad) Ringo actually sold the must albums, at least in America.
* Imagine a world with no religion? It really is easy to do. Just look up Katyń forest massacre, or Pol Pot killing fields, for start. It's a headscratcher for anyone to think getting rid of religion would make people more peaceful and less violent.
** Sadly, it's a very, very, ''very'' commonly expressed view, to the point of exhausted cliche--and mark my words, it's only a matter of time before someone posts a response below saying something like, "Well, it's an exaggeration, but historically religion ''is'' the #1 cause of death blah blah blah...." One of the twenty thousand or so types of hypocrisy commonly found among proponents of atheism and nonreligion is the way they use religion as a scapegoat for everything wrong with the world and then two minutes later bitch and moan about atheism being used as a scapegoat. Just like talking about religion as a mental illness and then getting defensive when psychoanalyzed as to the alleged reasons for their atheism. And so on. Bottom line: you can't get away from the argument in question and you never will, so just buck up.
** But did Pol Pot killing fields etc. happen because of the lack of religion? Not that I think getting rid of religion would make people more peaceful, but I don't think it would make people more violent either. The only people I know of who used lack of religion to justify their actions is Jeffrey Dahmer.
** Yeah, because [[SarcasmMode those dirty commies only cared about whether or not you were religious, and as long as you were an atheist you could bitchslap Stalin if you wanted to, and everything would be A-OK.]] Saying that everyone would be nice and peaceful as soon as they dropped religion? Naive, stupid, and insulting to religious people. Claming that having no religion leads to killing people? Double-sized stupid with fries and a large coke, not to mention the UnfortunateImplications up the arse. Also, if you really believe that having a religion is the one thing keeping people from murder (disregarding things like law, human empathy social pressure, a conscience and a moral upbringing), I for one wouldn't want to be anywhere near you if you ever have [[AxCrazy a small crisis of faith]].
** While Imagine was overly simplistic in my opinion that is just a dumb thing to say its one thing to argue that it wouldnt change most people its another thing entirely to say that a lack of religion makes people more bigger assholes. Its not even an argument you just stated violent actions done by atheistic groups I can do the same thing to argue for why religion causes people to be evil, Just look up the Mountain Meadows Massacre, or the Livonian Crusade for start.
** The evil of religion, if you want to call it that, is that it is the ultimate appeal to authority. God told me to do it. If God tells you to do something, you'd better do it, hadn't you? It has been used as an excuse not to think since they first came up with it, or a reason for you not to think. God said it was alright, do whatever. Religion or non-religion is not a source of violence. People are a source of violence. Religion is just a truly great excuse to do what you want. So, if there was no religion, there would be no super authority to appeal to. Go find me an atheist who ever killed someone because God told them to. Find me an atheist who ever used God as an excuse or a reason ever. God, the ultimate scapegoat.
* ''Imagine'' is a poem based on simple ideas from Buddhist philosophy. It's not a political manifesto, for anyone, on either side of politics. It is asking the listener to consider the issues for a moment, and make a personal decision. I performed it for some Thai Buddhist monks once, and they liked it a lot. They hadn't heard it before, and just asked, "Is it a traditional song?" Which is exactly what it sounds like. To a Buddhist.
** I meant overly simplistic musically not in terms of philosophy.
** I don't have any proof at the ready so far all I know it may be a case of GodNeverSaidThat but I have heard more than one apparently reliable person quote Lennon as saying the song is basically "The Communist Manifesto" set to music. He was always brutally honest about himself and his work, after all. (For instance, he was a large part of the basis for Billy Mack in "Love Actually".) All the same, being both a non-Communist and a deeply religious man I am not exactly offended by the song (Spector's Wall of Shit notwithstanding). Lennon isn't trying to make everyone follow his particular vision; he's arguing that everyone should ''have'' a vision, their very own, and oh by the way while we're at it here is his.
** Plus, let's be honest; it's just a three-minute pop song. Agree with Lennon's ideology or not, I think we can all agree (including Lennon, probably) that basing an entire society on the tenets espoused solely within ''any'' song, never mind one as brazenly idealistic as "Imagine", is just asking for trouble. As the Troper above notes, the point isn't necessarily that Lennon expects anyone to seriously construct an entire world order based entirely on the song, it's that he's expressing his hopes and beliefs and asking the listener to consider them.
* The idea of ''Imagine'' doesn't seem to be ''against'' politics, religion, possessions, territories or the precepts of heaven and hell. The ''subtext'' seems to be that such subjects and concepts are so tightly held and passionately argued over by [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well Intentioned Extremists]] (often who throw "Thou Shalt Not Kill", etc. out the window) that they lead to fighting and bloodshed and man inflicting pain upon his fellow man. If we can get rid of ''the less desirable attitudes that come with'' politics, religion, possessions, territories or the concepts of heaven and hell, the territorialism and didacticism and dogmatism that come with such subjects, we can have peace. Or, cynically, if such concerns would for some people lead them to war and oppression and judgmentalism even in spite of our best interests, we might as well (hypothetically) think of a less divisive way to live our lives.
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