History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban

10th Dec '17 11:32:59 AM sugaricequeen
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Sirius's werewolf prank]]
* If Snape and the Marauders were at odds during their time at school, why would Snape have trusted Sirius when he told about the tunnel under the Whomping Willow? He didn't seem like he would've hated Lupin enough that he would go looking for any excuse to get ''him'' in trouble, even if he despised James and Sirius for bullying him.
6th Dec '17 9:16:00 AM sugaricequeen
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** Don't look at the movies if you want consistency. There are many things which are changed or ignored in the movies, and combined with that which remains unchanged we get something that is an unreliable mess if you want to use it to ''know''.

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** Don't look at the movies if you want consistency. There are many things which are changed or ignored Remember, in the movies, and combined with book, Lupin says that which remains unchanged we get something that is an unreliable mess if you want when he became a werewolf without other humans around to use attack, he was forced to scratch and bite ''himself'', and he couldn't afford the Wolfsbane potion before Snape started making it for him. Once he has access to ''know''.the potion as a professor, he has some time for his scratches and other injuries to heal, his injured leg possibly being one of them.
27th Nov '17 1:55:50 PM sugaricequeen
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** It's revealed in ''Cursed Child'', actually, that most Time-Turners can't take anyone more than a few hours into the past, which significantly mitigates the damage one could cause.
6th Nov '17 10:03:44 PM Luppercus
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-->Sirius: "Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I’ve wondered why Dumbledore hired him. Snape's '''always been fascinated by the Dark Arts''', he was '''famous for it at school''. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was." Sirius added, and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. "Snape knew '''more curses''' when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year, and he was part of a '''gang of Slytherins who nearly-all turned out to be Death Eaters'''." ([=GoF=] Chapter 27]

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-->Sirius: "Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I’ve wondered why Dumbledore hired him. Snape's '''always been fascinated by the Dark Arts''', he was '''famous for it at school''.school'''. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was." Sirius added, and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. "Snape "'''Snape knew '''more curses''' more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year, and he was part of a '''gang gang of Slytherins who nearly-all turned out to be Death Eaters'''." ([=GoF=] Chapter 27]
6th Nov '17 9:56:32 PM Luppercus
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** So according to Lupin and Sirius, Snape was into the Dark Arts since the beginning, knowing curses even before he enters high school, belonging to a gang of proto-nazis who, call me crazy, I don't think they were very nice and I find hard to believe they didn't do any bullying, and he calls a racial slur on the girl that stood up to defend him. Yes, [[SarcasmMode nice guy this Snape]]. As the afore mentioned article mentions, as repugnant as James Potter and Sirius Black's actions were, they do made amends, they do grow to become rounded up individuals who hated racial supremacists and Dark Wizards (the wizard equivalent of dangerous criminals), whilst Snape kept a grudge all his life, joins the Nazi Party and was willing to let Voldemort kill Lily's husband and son (his only requested to spare ''her''), and bullies children just because they have the misfortune of remembering some sort of resentment that any sane adult should get over it before puberty finishes.

to:

** So according to Lupin and Sirius, Snape was into the Dark Arts since the beginning, knowing curses even before he enters high school, belonging to a gang of proto-nazis who, call me crazy, I don't think they were very nice and I find hard to believe they didn't do any bullying, and he calls a racial slur on the girl that stood up to defend him. Yes, [[SarcasmMode nice guy this Snape]]. As the afore mentioned article mentions, as repugnant as James Potter and Sirius Black's actions were, they do made amends, they do grow to become rounded up individuals who hated racial supremacists and Dark Wizards (the wizard equivalent of dangerous criminals), whilst Snape kept a grudge all his life, joins the Nazi Party and was willing to let Voldemort kill Lily's husband and son (his (he only requested to spare ''her''), and bullies children just because they have the misfortune of remembering some sort of resentment that any sane adult should get over it before puberty finishes.
6th Nov '17 9:53:58 PM Luppercus
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-->Sirius: "Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I’ve wondered why Dumbledore hired him. Snape's '''always been fascinated by the Dark Arts''', he was '''famous for it at school''. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was." Sirius added, and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. "'''Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year''', and he was part of a '''gang of Slytherins who nearly-all turned out to be Death Eaters'''." ([=GoF=] Chapter 27]

to:

-->Sirius: "Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I’ve wondered why Dumbledore hired him. Snape's '''always been fascinated by the Dark Arts''', he was '''famous for it at school''. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was." Sirius added, and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. "'''Snape "Snape knew more curses '''more curses''' when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year''', year, and he was part of a '''gang of Slytherins who nearly-all turned out to be Death Eaters'''." ([=GoF=] Chapter 27]



** So according to Lupin and Sirius, Snape was into the Dark Arts since the begining, knowing curses even before he enter high school, belonging to a gang of proto-nazis who, call me crazy, I don't think they were very nice and I find hard to believe didn't do any bullying, and he call a racial slur on the girl that stood up to defend him. Yes, [[SarcasmMode nice guy this Snape]]. As the afore mentioned article mentions, as repugnant as James Potter and Sirius Black's actions were, they do made amends, they do grow to become rounded up individuals who hated racial supremacists and Dark Wizards (the wizard equivalent of dangerous criminals), whilst Snape kept a grudge all his life, joins the Nazi Party and was willing to let Voldemort kill Lily's husband and son (his only requested to spare ''her''), and bullies children just because they have the misfortune of remembering some sort of resentment that any sane adult should get over it before puberty finishes.

to:

** So according to Lupin and Sirius, Snape was into the Dark Arts since the begining, beginning, knowing curses even before he enter enters high school, belonging to a gang of proto-nazis who, call me crazy, I don't think they were very nice and I find hard to believe they didn't do any bullying, and he call calls a racial slur on the girl that stood up to defend him. Yes, [[SarcasmMode nice guy this Snape]]. As the afore mentioned article mentions, as repugnant as James Potter and Sirius Black's actions were, they do made amends, they do grow to become rounded up individuals who hated racial supremacists and Dark Wizards (the wizard equivalent of dangerous criminals), whilst Snape kept a grudge all his life, joins the Nazi Party and was willing to let Voldemort kill Lily's husband and son (his only requested to spare ''her''), and bullies children just because they have the misfortune of remembering some sort of resentment that any sane adult should get over it before puberty finishes.
6th Nov '17 9:48:01 PM Luppercus
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*** We do have testimonies that Snape was not an angel to begin with from other than James Potter:
-->Sirius: "Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I’ve wondered why Dumbledore hired him. Snape's '''always been fascinated by the Dark Arts''', he was '''famous for it at school''. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was." Sirius added, and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. "'''Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year''', and he was part of a '''gang of Slytherins who nearly-all turned out to be Death Eaters'''." ([=GoF=] Chapter 27]

-->Snape’s worst memory: “LEAVE HIM ALONE!” Lily shouted. She had her own wand out now. James and Sirius eyed it warily.
-->“Ah, Evans, don’t make me hex you,” said James earnestly.
-->“Take the curse off him, then!”
-->James sighed deeply, then turned to Snape and muttered the countercurse.
-->“There you go,” he said, as Snape struggled to his feet again, “you’re lucky Evans was here, Snivellus–”
-->“I don’t need help from '''filthy little Mudbloods like her!'''” ([=OotP=], Chapter 28)

-->Lupin: “I wouldn’t want you to judge your father on what you saw there, Harry. He was only fifteen –”
-->“I’m fifteen!” said Harry heatedly.
-->“Look Harry,” said Sirius placatingly, “James and Snape hated each other from the moment they set eyes on each other, it was just one of those things, you can understand that, can’t you? I think James was everything Snape wanted to be — he was popular, he was good at Quidditch, good at pretty much everything. And Snape was just this little oddball who '''was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts''' and James — whatever else he may have appeared to you, Harry — always hated the Dark Arts.” ([=OotP=], Chapter 29)

-->I’ve made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends – you see, you don’t even deny it! You don’t even deny that’s what you’re all aiming to be! You can’t wait to join You-Know-Who, can you? (quote from Lily Evans, I don't have the exact book because I took it from this [[http://www.nerdsdoingstuff.com/severus-snape-is-a-complete-twat-and-all-this-tragic-hero-nonsense-needs-to-stop/ very interesting article]].

-->[[http://whysnape.tripod.com/rowlingtranscript.htm Snape is fun to write, because he is a deeply horrible person]]. WordOfGod.

** So according to Lupin and Sirius, Snape was into the Dark Arts since the begining, knowing curses even before he enter high school, belonging to a gang of proto-nazis who, call me crazy, I don't think they were very nice and I find hard to believe didn't do any bullying, and he call a racial slur on the girl that stood up to defend him. Yes, [[SarcasmMode nice guy this Snape]]. As the afore mentioned article mentions, as repugnant as James Potter and Sirius Black's actions were, they do made amends, they do grow to become rounded up individuals who hated racial supremacists and Dark Wizards (the wizard equivalent of dangerous criminals), whilst Snape kept a grudge all his life, joins the Nazi Party and was willing to let Voldemort kill Lily's husband and son (his only requested to spare ''her''), and bullies children just because they have the misfortune of remembering some sort of resentment that any sane adult should get over it before puberty finishes.
6th Nov '17 3:33:31 PM Gess
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* Everyone's reaction to Sirius's prank, just bugs me. So the main characters find out from Lupin and Sirius that when they were students at Hogwarts, Sirius, as a prank sent Snape into the Shrieking Shack where a werewolf!Lupin was lurking, which could've gotten him killed or infected, yet rather than see Sirius as in the wrong, they decide that the victim Snape as the one with issues for failing to get over it. Granted, while having Sirius and Lupin sent to the Dementors to be [[FateWorseThanDeath Kissed]] ''is'' DisproportionateRetribution it's not like Snape doesnt have a justifiable reason to be bitter over nearly dying since Sirius was never punished for it and in Lupin's case, he has no reason to believe that the latter wasnt in on the prank. Even if Sirius didnt intend for Snape to die or be turned, it doesnt change the fact that said prank could've gone horribly wrong with severe consequences for everyone plus Sirius not showing any remorse, yet no one seems to acknowledge that Sirius did anything even when they should. Harry calls Snape pathetic for refusing to listen to Sirius and Lupin, despite earlier deciding that Sirius deserved to have his soul sucked out by Dementors and had been rearing to kill Sirus, and refusing to listen to his story just moments earlier. Hermione calls out the Marauders as reckless for running around the Hogwarts ground when werewolf!Lupin could've easily bitten and infected someone yet when she hears about Sirius ''intentionally'' leading some (Snape) to a lair inhabited by a werewolf, it's just a school prank. Then there's Lupin downplaying Snape's anger as just a schoolboy grudge. Nevermind, that one of his best friends decided to take advantage of his 'condition' to terrify someone he didnt like, which couldve ended in him becoming a killer or at least putting someone in the same hell as him which wouldve also lead to him being outed as a werewolf resulting in being expelled at best and locked up in Azkaban at worst for being too dangerous. Despite this, Lupin is still happy to be friends with Sirius and hasnt been shown to be upset about it. Finally, after Dumbledore is convinced of Sirius's innocence, Snape implores him to remember that Sirius almost getting him killed. His response, "Yeah, yeah I heard you. Now go outside so I can speak to Harry and Hermione." And when mentioned Siriu's list of transgressions, he conveniently leaves out the near-fatal prank. I know Snape's a jerk, but considering how apathetic everyone is to him almost DYING, it's not surprising he'd be bitter.

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* Everyone's reaction to Sirius's prank, just bugs me. So the main characters find out from Lupin and Sirius that when they were students at Hogwarts, Sirius, as a prank sent Snape into the Shrieking Shack where a werewolf!Lupin was lurking, which could've gotten him killed or infected, yet rather than see Sirius as in the wrong, they decide that the victim Snape as the one with issues for failing to get over it. Granted, while having Sirius and Lupin sent to the Dementors to be [[FateWorseThanDeath Kissed]] ''is'' DisproportionateRetribution it's not like Snape doesnt have a justifiable reason to be bitter over nearly dying since Sirius was never punished for it and in Lupin's case, he has no reason to believe that the latter wasnt in on the prank. Even if Sirius didnt intend for Snape to die or be turned, it doesnt change the fact that said prank could've gone horribly wrong with severe consequences for everyone plus Sirius not showing any remorse, yet no one seems to acknowledge that Sirius did anything even when they should. Harry calls Snape pathetic for refusing to listen to Sirius and Lupin, despite earlier deciding that Sirius deserved to have his soul sucked out by Dementors and had been rearing to kill Sirus, and refusing to listen to his story just moments earlier. Hermione calls out the Marauders as reckless for running around the Hogwarts ground when werewolf!Lupin could've easily bitten and infected someone yet when she hears about Sirius ''intentionally'' leading some (Snape) to a lair inhabited by a werewolf, it's just a school prank. Then there's Lupin downplaying Snape's anger as just a schoolboy grudge. Nevermind, that one of his best friends decided to take advantage of his 'condition' to terrify someone he didnt like, which couldve ended in him becoming a killer or at least putting someone in the same hell as him which wouldve also lead to him being outed as a werewolf resulting in being expelled at best and locked up in Azkaban at worst for being too dangerous. Despite this, Lupin is still happy to be friends with Sirius and hasnt been shown to be upset about it. Finally, after Dumbledore is convinced of Sirius's innocence, Snape implores him to remember that Sirius almost getting him killed. His response, "Yeah, yeah I heard you. Now go outside so I can speak to Harry and Hermione." And when mentioned Siriu's Sirius' list of transgressions, he conveniently leaves out the near-fatal prank. I know Snape's a jerk, but considering how apathetic everyone is to him almost DYING, it's not surprising he'd be bitter.


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*** Maybe. Or ''maybe'' we do that because, as stated in the HBP section, that's not how the Pensieve works, and the flashbacks are completely impartial, unless the owner intentionally modifies the memory, while the "the many times that Snape probably was in the bullying side" is substanciated by ''nothing'' besides the account of his tormentor.
1st Nov '17 7:27:21 PM GammaCavy
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** This troper was bothered by that for a long time, and found a textual (implied) answer. When Karkaroff shows Snape the Mark on his arm in the potions classroom, Harry discusses this with Sirius in Hogsmeade. The exact text of that bit of conversation [-''Karkaroff looked really worried. He showed Snape something on his arm, but I couldn’t see what it was.”-] [-“He showed Snape something on his arm?” said Sirius, looking frankly bewildered. He ran his fingers distractedly through his filthy hair, then shrugged again. “Well, I’ve no idea what that’s about'' . . . -]It follows then that ''at the time Sirius went to Azkaban, no one knew about the mark on the arm!'' From which we conclude that no known Death Eater had been captured alive at the time, and the Ministry was guessing in the dark about who had been one. They learn about it between Sirius imprisonment and Goblet, because Snape shoves his under Fudge's nose for evidence, and seems to think that Fudge should have some idea of it's meaning. However ''even he isn't sure.'' He explains what it means, spelling out the brand in detail.

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** This troper was bothered by that for a long time, and found a textual (implied) answer. When Karkaroff shows Snape the Mark on his arm in the potions classroom, Harry discusses this with Sirius in Hogsmeade. The exact text of that bit of conversation conversation:
***
[-''Karkaroff looked really worried. He showed Snape something on his arm, but I couldn’t see what it was.”-] [-“He ”-]
***[-“He
showed Snape something on his arm?” said Sirius, looking frankly bewildered. He ran his fingers distractedly through his filthy hair, then shrugged again. “Well, I’ve no idea what that’s about'' . . . -]It -]
***It
follows then that ''at the time Sirius went to Azkaban, no one knew about the mark on the arm!'' From which we conclude that no known Death Eater had been captured alive at the time, and the Ministry was guessing in the dark about who had been one. They learn about it between Sirius imprisonment and Goblet, because Snape shoves his under Fudge's nose for evidence, and seems to think that Fudge should have some idea of it's meaning. However ''even he isn't sure.'' He explains what it means, spelling out the brand in detail.
1st Nov '17 7:26:11 PM GammaCavy
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** This troper was bothered by that for a long time, and found a textual (implied) answer. When Karkaroff shows Snape the Mark on his arm in the potions classroom, Harry discusses this with Sirius in Hogsmeade. The exact text of that bit of conversation [-''Karkaroff looked really worried. He showed Snape something on his arm, but I couldn’t see what it was.”-] [-“He showed Snape something on his arm?” said Sirius, looking frankly bewildered. He ran his fingers distractedly through his filthy hair, then shrugged again. “Well, I’ve no idea what that’s about'' . . . -]It follows then that ''at the time Sirius went to Azkaban, no one knew about the mark on the arm!'' From which we conclude that no known Death Eater had been captured alive at the time, and the Ministry was guessing in the dark about who had been one. They learn about it between Sirius imprisonment and Goblet, because Snape shoves his under Fudge's nose for evidence, and seems to think that Fudge should have some idea of it's meaning. However ''even he isn't sure.'' He explains what it means, spelling out the brand in detail.
***Ergo, I argue that the "Identification Tattos" were relatively unknown at the time of the event in question, and not well known thirteen years later.
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