History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndThePhilosophersStone

21st May '16 2:28:12 AM wusch
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** I think the hat decides mostly on his own but takes the pupils wishes into the whole thing if it is extremely close for 2 houses. In Harrys case Slytherin and Gryffindor where more or less equal and he himself couldn't decide, so he took Harrys wish and sorted him into Gryffindor. Neville on the other hand clearly belonged into Gryffindor, even if he didn't show it yet.
17th May '16 5:20:34 AM TimBuckII
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[[folder:Who needs the stone?]]
* Why didn't LV just use the same way to ressurect himself he used in ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire''? He had the flesh of a servant, and apparently he wasn't ''that'' fixated on Harry Potter back then to not use some other enemy for the blood.
** Perhaps he saw the stone as a more permanent and reliable method of returning. Plus with the stone he'd also get true immortality and all the gold he needs for wherever his lust for power goes. Sure he could have got the stone after returning but perhaps he was still hoping to remain under the radar to make retrieving the stone easier.
** Voldemort himself answers this in ''Goblet'': "There was no hope of stealing the Philosopher's Stone anymore, for I knew that Dumbledore would have seen to it that it was destroyed. But I was willing to embrace mortal life again, before chasing immortality. I set my sights lower... I would settle for my old body back again, and my old strength."
** Oh, thanks for reminding of yet another Headscratcher (boy, do these things multiply like roaches!). What the hell is all that supposed to mean? What "mortal life", what "chasing immortality"? V ''was'' immortal, thanks to the Horcruxes. His body could still be destroyed, it turned out, but, the Stone was only supposed to expand his life-span (and give him back his body through some undefined mean), not render him invulneruble or even enhance his powers, so how was it any better, and what would it give him that he already didn't have? The gold? What for? Should he return, he'd have the funds of Malfoy and, possibly, other rich Death Eaters at his disposal and anyway, his prime instrument was terror, not gold. Hell, DD himself admits that the stone was ''not'' a permanent solution - you have to drink the Immortality Potion regularly, and if the stone is stolen, you're screwed. In his own words: "He [LV] would use the Stone to get back his body and then rely on Horcruxes to keep him alive". That makes sense. V's aforementioned words or his behavior in PS don't.
** As we're shown in the series horcruxes can be destroyed and render the "immortality" they grant worthless. Having the stone would be another reliable method for him as he can always carry it on his person (having two methods of immortality are better than one after all). The gold is an additional source of revenue and not much more, but it is an added plus.
** So can the Stone be destroyed. So can he carry a Horcrux with him, but he can also hide it in the most out-of-reach place ever, which he cannot do with the Stone. Besides, V clearly considered the possibility of loosing the Horcuxes all but non-existant (Hey, if others can use this shitty excuse, then so can I!)
** Yes, the stone can be destroyed but like I said that's why you have back ups in the form of horcruxes for your immortality. We don't know how often you have to take the elixir of life so perhaps he could hide it in an out of reach spot and only visit it every month or so. I believe Tom thought that the idea of loosing his horcruxes to be non-existent because he thought no one knew about them. People know about the philosopher's stone so he can use his horcruxes as a back up for the stone in case someone intentionally sets out to destroy it. Besides if he boasts that he's immortal ''only'' because of the stone and it's destroyed people won't automatically assume he has a back-up source of immortality until it's too late.
** Why. What's the point. Why bother with the stone that he needs to visit every month or so to expand his life-span, when it is already infinite thanks to the Horcruxes that DO NOT require visiting them every month or at all, that he already has several of, and that nobody is supposed to know about? It's just pointlessly redundant! Seriously, calling the Horcruxes back up to the Stone is like [[http://thxforthe.info/2008/04/30/drive-me-closer-i-want-to-hit-them-with-my-sword/ calling your battle tank a back up to your sword]]. "If he boasts...people won't automatically presume..." - yes, because the fact that he survived the destruction of his body even WITHOUT the stone will certainly not clue them, right? Not to mention, what the hell should he care? He's the (second) most powerful sorceror in the world, defeating him in a duel is all but impossible and even then the Stone wouldn't save him anyway, like the Horcruxes did. In all possible ways the Stone seems just inferior to what he already has. So why risk entering the domain of his arch-nemesis and risk loosing his only servant to obtain it, when he could use Quirrel to return into flesh quietly and inconspicouosly and maybe THEN send him after the Stone, if he still wanted it so badly.
** Because it's quite clear that horcruxes do nothing to protect his '''body'''. He was stuck possessing rats and snakes and crappy DADA teachers for ten years. The horcruxes anchor his soul to the land of the living, but a philosopher's stone would give him an eternally-healthy, young, powerful body to, you know, actually ''do'' stuff. And if he had that stone hidden in a safe location, he'd presumably be able to make himself a new body as soon as he was killed again.
** Neither would the Stone protect his body in such occasion[[note]]And let's not forget that he was hit by a blast of some ancient and divinely powerful magic, point-blanc and completely off-guard. The way other characters spoke about him, killing him with convential means was apparently very problematic, if possible at all[[/note]]. So it all boils down to the prospect of ressurection, which (surprise!) brings us back to my original point, i.e. ''he didn't need the Stone for that either''. He had the much more convinient "Bone&Flesh&Blood" method available that didn't require him to break into high-security institutions, cross his arch-nemesis[[note]]DD, of course, not the scarhead[[/note]] and risk being exposed and loosing his only servant. Sure, ''maybe'' the Stone could be used repeatedly[[note]]or maybe to rebuild a body from scratch you need to grind it and pour the powder into the potion[[/note]], and ''mabye'' the BFB could only be used once, so ''maybe'' procuring the Stone in general was a good idea[[note]]Again, he could have Quirrel safely revive him through BFB and then send him after the Stone[[/note]], but in the immediate circumstances of PS it doesn't make any sense.
** It's never actually stated that the Stone wouldn't protect his body. Most concepts of immortality include regeneration, so it's not hard to assume that someone who drinks the Elixir regularly will have any wounds heal quickly and without any lasting damage.
** It's stated by DD, that V would use the Stone ''only'' for resurrection, so apparently no. And again, it is already nearly impossible to wound him due to his sheer magical power and skill. DD himself didn't manage to.
** As I've already said I don't object to the idea of procuring the Stone ''in general'', but it's painfully obvious that V should have had Quirrel safely revive him through BFB, which didn't require him to break into high-security institutions, cross his arch-nemesis and risk being exposed and loosing his only servant, and '''then''' send him after the Stone. He didn't. Why.
** It is generally not a good idea to advertise to your enemies that you have immortality jars, so the "mortal life/chasing immortality" bit might have been deliberate misdirection [[note]]Gasp, the evil man LIES!?[[/note]] Also, the BFB ritual may not have existed before Harry's 4th year. Voldy might have had to come up with it on his own, or adapt another ritual that served a similar-but-different purpose, because how often do you think shades come back to life? Horcruxes are supposed to be super-rare.
** Enemies, sure, but he's sputtering that gibberish in front of his cronies, who all ''know'' that he'd existed as the "meanest of ghosts" before Pettegrew revived him, so there was really no sense in "misdirection" at that point. As for the second part, V calls BFB "an old piece of Dark Magic" and doesn't say anything about adapting or changing it, so no.

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** The movie, at least, states that unicorn blood will save you ''even if'' you are at the brink of death, not ''only'' under that circumstance.
10th May '16 6:56:57 PM Fireblood
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** I think it was done for the American edition because they felt readers in the US [[ViewersAreMorons wouldn't understand the term]] "philosopher's stone", and be turned off (Presumably British people are more familiar with this/easygoing? I don't know).
10th May '16 10:51:13 AM QuarrelsomeChevon
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* I'm sure this has been explained somewhere, but I was wondering whether someone would humor me by detailing the facts behind the change from "Philosopher" to "Sorcerer"? Like, when it happened, where, and why? All I really know for sure is that "Philosopher" (I think...) came first, while the film I always watched as a kid used "Sorcerer" instead, but now, it feels sort of weird whenever I have to refer to the book using the latter term.

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* I'm sure this has been explained somewhere, but I was wondering whether someone would humor me by detailing the facts behind the change from "Philosopher" to "Sorcerer"? Like, when it happened, where, and why? All I really know for sure is that "Philosopher" (I think...) came first, while the film I always watched as a kid used "Sorcerer" instead, but now, it feels sort of weird whenever I have to refer to the book using the latter former term. Was there any version printed under the name "Sorcerer's Stone," or was that just for the film?
10th May '16 10:50:02 AM QuarrelsomeChevon
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Title change]]
* I'm sure this has been explained somewhere, but I was wondering whether someone would humor me by detailing the facts behind the change from "Philosopher" to "Sorcerer"? Like, when it happened, where, and why? All I really know for sure is that "Philosopher" (I think...) came first, while the film I always watched as a kid used "Sorcerer" instead, but now, it feels sort of weird whenever I have to refer to the book using the latter term.
9th May '16 11:10:48 AM wusch
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** In addition to that, Hagrid is the first staff member the students ever see at Hogwarts, so with sending Hagrid with whom Harry would likely form a friendship, Dumbledore could be pretty sure, that arriving at Hogwarts would be a good deal easier for Harry when a friend was bringing him to the castle. And in addition to that: While Hagrids look can easily get you wrong, he is the friendliest and most easygoing member of the staff. Dumbledore did not only send Harry a bodyguard and guide for his very first steps in the magical world, he send him a friend, actually the very first one in his life. It almost certain, that Dumbledore knew that Harry had no friends.
8th May '16 10:10:00 AM Discar
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*** Ironic that we're talking about a series with major themes of elitist thinking and racism.

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*** ** Ironic that we're talking about a series with major themes of elitist thinking and racism.



*** The school's not to blame for everything which happened, but you'd think parents would be more reluctant to send their kids there by now.
*** To be fair, though, in the later books, a lot of them are. In the first three, Dumbledore and co. were able to do damage control and fix everything before it got too out-of-hand - they didn't reveal Ginny's involvement in the events in the Chamber of Secrets, and Lupin quit his job in order to appease the parents. After all, there's always a sort of implied risk when you're sending your kids to a school where magic is taught. It wasn't until ''Goblet of Fire'' rolled around, which involed incidents such as an underage wizard either entered the tournament illegally, or was entered against his will, served as the only witness to the death of a competitor in the final event, and came back shouting about the Dark Lord's return. Even ''after'' Dumbledore's name was cleared at the end of the fifth book, people still hesitated to send their children back, due to the rising threat of the Death Eaters.
*** That's true, but even before it there were incidents of murder or near-murder. It's a wonder the school stays open.

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*** ** The school's not to blame for everything which happened, but you'd think parents would be more reluctant to send their kids there by now.
*** ** To be fair, though, in the later books, a lot of them are. In the first three, Dumbledore and co. were able to do damage control and fix everything before it got too out-of-hand - they didn't reveal Ginny's involvement in the events in the Chamber of Secrets, and Lupin quit his job in order to appease the parents. After all, there's always a sort of implied risk when you're sending your kids to a school where magic is taught. It wasn't until ''Goblet of Fire'' rolled around, which involed incidents such as an underage wizard either entered the tournament illegally, or was entered against his will, served as the only witness to the death of a competitor in the final event, and came back shouting about the Dark Lord's return. Even ''after'' Dumbledore's name was cleared at the end of the fifth book, people still hesitated to send their children back, due to the rising threat of the Death Eaters.
*** ** That's true, but even before it there were incidents of murder or near-murder. It's a wonder the school stays open.



*** The events of the second book, death-defying coincidences notwithstanding, were due to one of the darkest and most deadly forms of magic being purposefully sent into the school from outside - a Horcrux made by Voldemort himself, in the form of Tom Riddle's diary. No one could've possibly expected it to happen - not even the guy who DID it knew what the diary really was - and if anyone tries to go after the school for it, Harry brings Dobby in, has him testify to the fact that Lucius planned on sending the diary into the school as a means of killing of the Muggle-borns. If a shooting occurrs at a school, you don't go and close the school for not having the best security - the school updates its security on its own, and the perpetrator is the one who's punished.
*** Well, that's the point, they don't update their security. It's not until book 6 that they even begin to check students for dark artifacts (and even then, they task ''Filch'' with it, says it all about the seriousness of their intentions), they never bother with the anti-polyjuice wards at all, and the faculty (read: DD) makes one horrible student-endangering decision after another.

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*** ** The events of the second book, death-defying coincidences notwithstanding, were due to one of the darkest and most deadly forms of magic being purposefully sent into the school from outside - a Horcrux made by Voldemort himself, in the form of Tom Riddle's diary. No one could've possibly expected it to happen - not even the guy who DID it knew what the diary really was - and if anyone tries to go after the school for it, Harry brings Dobby in, has him testify to the fact that Lucius planned on sending the diary into the school as a means of killing of the Muggle-borns. If a shooting occurrs at a school, you don't go and close the school for not having the best security - the school updates its security on its own, and the perpetrator is the one who's punished.
*** ** Well, that's the point, they don't update their security. It's not until book 6 that they even begin to check students for dark artifacts (and even then, they task ''Filch'' with it, says it all about the seriousness of their intentions), they never bother with the anti-polyjuice wards at all, and the faculty (read: DD) makes one horrible student-endangering decision after another.
8th May '16 8:39:29 AM Gess
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*** Well, that's the point, they don't update their security. It's not until book 6 that they even begin to check students for dark artifacts (and even then, they task ''Filch'' with it, says it all about the seriousness of their intentions), they never bother with the anti-polyjuice wards at all, and the faculty (read: DD) makes one horrible student-endangering decision after another.
7th May '16 12:45:50 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
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** It's not just you - I'm pretty sure that's how it was supposed to come across, at least more toward the end. The seventh film even had a deleted scene where Petunia talks with Harry as the Dursleys are preparing to go into hiding. She reminds him that he didn't just lose a mother the night Lily died, that she lost a sister, as well. By the end of the series, it's implied she's at least somewhat accepted the fact that it wasn't Harry's ''or'' Lily's fault that she wasn't allowed to go to Hogwarts, the reason she came to dislike magic to begin with, and that she shouldn't hate either of them for it.
7th May '16 12:39:26 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
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*** That's true, but even before it there were incidents of murder or near-murder. It's a wonder the school
stays open.

to:

*** That's true, but even before it there were incidents of murder or near-murder. It's a wonder the school
school stays open.


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*** The events of the second book, death-defying coincidences notwithstanding, were due to one of the darkest and most deadly forms of magic being purposefully sent into the school from outside - a Horcrux made by Voldemort himself, in the form of Tom Riddle's diary. No one could've possibly expected it to happen - not even the guy who DID it knew what the diary really was - and if anyone tries to go after the school for it, Harry brings Dobby in, has him testify to the fact that Lucius planned on sending the diary into the school as a means of killing of the Muggle-borns. If a shooting occurrs at a school, you don't go and close the school for not having the best security - the school updates its security on its own, and the perpetrator is the one who's punished.
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