History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality

9th Aug '17 8:25:25 AM MicoolTNT
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** I'm pretty sure it's something like "Parseltongue makes you say what you would have said if you were (intending) to tell the truth". I think it manipulates your ''intentions'' or something like that, based on a combination of textual evidence (Harry describes the feeling as the truth "just slipping out", his words seamlessly changing despite his - conscious - intention) and the author's focus on "coherent extrapolated volition". The evidence seems to fit the theory of "it changed his subconscious intention, then made him act on the new one". If this were true, the above test would have the same result as the canonical one - the truth would "just slip out".
** Expanding on this, I think this is also why Occlumency can beat Veritaserum, but not the Parseltongue curse[[note]]Aside from the obvious Doylist explanation of "not wanting Veritaserum to be a StoryBreakerPower[=/=]constant source of FridgeLogic, but wanting/needing Parseltongue to be trustworthy" [[/note]]:
*** Veritaserum presumably forces a ''conscious'' urge to "tell the truth as you believe it" (or something like that)[[note]]And there is some textual evidence for this, or at least that it creates an urge the conscious mind can recognize but cannot (effectively) fight, as seen in the Hermione Wizengamot interrogation scene[[/note]] - but with Occlumency in play, both "you" and "believe" become blurry terms. If one is skilled with Occlumency, they can easily create an Occlumency-constructed personality that ''genuinely doesn't'' believe whatever they're trying to avoid saying, thus "confusing" the potion (or just use a "blank" Occlumency persona, like a rock, to avoid saying anything). Presumably, Veritaserum works via the same "surfaces" as Legilimency attacks, and thus is similarly defended against via Occlumency.
*** Meanwhile, the Parseltongue curse works at the deeper level of ''intentions'', which are ''not'' so easy to fake, if at all ''possible'' to - even if an Occlumency persona "intends" something, the ''true'' intention of ''creating'' that persona, and therefore, arguably, ''its'' true intention, is ''whatever your'' true intention is.
** And yeah. Harry had no time or safety for trickery and/or investigation IIRC.
24th Jul '17 12:09:42 AM JustTheBast
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** Wut?  Err, are you sure you're posting on the right Headscratchers page?  Because that question made approximately 0.0% sense in the context of ''Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.''
23rd Jul '17 8:50:12 PM Pastykake
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** Beyond all the good points you made about the Weasleys' attitude toward Muggles, you also make a good point about Ron. Out of all the Weasleys, he is the one who marries a Muggle-born, after all.

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** Beyond all the good points you made about the Weasleys' attitude toward Muggles, muggles, you also make a good point about Ron. Out of all the Weasleys, he is the one who marries a Muggle-born, muggleborn, after all.



** Exactly my point. Of of the Weasleys, Ron is the only one who marries a muggle-born.

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** Exactly my point. Of of all the Weasleys, Ron is the only one who marries a muggle-born.muggleborn.



** But Wizards also do things involving the mind to other wizards. They let Dementors at their prisoners after all. They just don't have the same opinions on the mind as Muggles do.
** It's all over canon. Wizards think nothing of altering muggle memories to maintain the statue of secrecy (most evident at the World Cup), or of breaking into their house while they're on vacation and using it as a free hotel (neither Harry nor Dumbledore condemn Slughorn for this). When muggles are killed by giants and terrorist attacks on bridges, wizards don't care that their family members will never know the truth of the incident. When a muggle poses any kind of problem, a quick confounding charm is seen as a good solution (Dumbledore at the orphanage comes to mind). Wizards draw the line at killing muggles, or hurting them for your own amusement, but everything else is fair game. See [[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6606864/1/The-Search-for-Supernatural-Life this]] fic for more. They are literally treated more like animals or children than like fellow adult humans.
** Look at Fudge's treatment of the Prime Minister, the elected official of the Muggle government of Great Britain. Look at Hermione, who after four years spent in the Wizarding world has [[YouWillBeAssimilated been assimilated]] to point that she, the supposed [[KnowNothingKnowItAll know-it-all]], refers to technology a "substitute" for magic, positing that magic is superior, when in fact technology is merely the technical term for advanced tools and that it in many ways surpasses magic. Who was the first wizard on the moon, after all? Or the first wizard to blow up a city? And finally, look at how they never once ask the Muggles for help against Voldemort, despite the fact that an air force bomber could have taken out the entire Death Eater army without any difficulty whatsoever, and that if they appealed to the Muggle government directly, they most likely would have helped them secretly to honor their International Statute of Secrecy.

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** But Wizards wizards also do things involving the mind to other wizards. They let Dementors dementors at their prisoners prisoners, after all. They just don't have the same opinions on the mind as Muggles muggles do.
** It's all over canon. Wizards think nothing of altering muggle memories to maintain the statue statute of secrecy (most evident at the World Cup), or of breaking into their house muggles' houses while they're on vacation and using it them as a free hotel hotels (neither Harry nor Dumbledore condemn Slughorn for this). When muggles are killed by giants and terrorist attacks on bridges, wizards don't care that their the muggles' family members will never know the truth of the incident. When a muggle poses any kind of problem, a quick confounding charm is seen as a good solution (Dumbledore at the orphanage comes to mind). Wizards draw the line at killing muggles, or hurting them for your own amusement, but everything else is fair game. See [[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6606864/1/The-Search-for-Supernatural-Life this]] fic for more. They are literally treated more like animals or children than like fellow adult humans.
** Look at Fudge's treatment of the Prime Minister, the elected official of the Muggle muggle government of Great Britain. Look at Hermione, who after four years spent in the Wizarding wizarding world has [[YouWillBeAssimilated been assimilated]] to point that she, the supposed [[KnowNothingKnowItAll know-it-all]], refers to technology as a "substitute" for magic, positing that magic is superior, when in fact technology is merely the technical term for advanced tools and that it in many ways surpasses magic. Who was the first wizard on the moon, Moon, after all? Or the first wizard to blow up a city? And finally, Finally, look at how they never once ask the Muggles muggles for help against Voldemort, despite the fact that an air force bomber could have taken out the entire Death Eater army without any difficulty whatsoever, and that if they appealed to the Muggle muggle government directly, they most likely would have helped them secretly to honor their International Statute of Secrecy.
3rd Jun '17 7:57:21 AM Discar
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*** This was essentially confirmed in canon in Snape's flashback from Deathly Hallows. [[spoiler:When Dumbledore asks Snape to be the one to kill him instead of Draco after learning he has a year to live, Snape asks if his soul is worth so little. Dumbledore responds that it shouldn't tear Snape's soul to mercy kill a dying man who's asked for it.]]

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*** ** This was essentially confirmed in canon in Snape's flashback from Deathly Hallows. [[spoiler:When Dumbledore asks Snape to be the one to kill him instead of Draco after learning he has a year to live, Snape asks if his soul is worth so little. Dumbledore responds that it shouldn't tear Snape's soul to mercy kill a dying man who's asked for it.]]



In chapter 79, Dumbledore (temporarily) retrieves the Map of Hogwarts, and uses it to search for a "Tom Riddle". Quirrel has already been taken into custody at this point, so the only person who would show up on said map would be Harry. However, why would Dumbledore not try to use the map more often? After all, he suspects the shade of Voldemort is hiding at Hogwarts and occasionally possessing people. The map identifies people by their mind, not their body (which Dumbledore knows, because Harry shows up as "Tom Riddle"), so anyone possessed by Voldemort should show up as "Tom Riddle". Why doesn't he check the map more often? Or use it in combination with the time turner while investigating either the chapter 79 or 89 incidents (in case Voldemort had cut his time-turner evasion close because he didn't know about the map)?

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* In chapter 79, Dumbledore (temporarily) retrieves the Map of Hogwarts, and uses it to search for a "Tom Riddle". Quirrel has already been taken into custody at this point, so the only person who would show up on said map would be Harry. However, why would Dumbledore not try to use the map more often? After all, he suspects the shade of Voldemort is hiding at Hogwarts and occasionally possessing people. The map identifies people by their mind, not their body (which Dumbledore knows, because Harry shows up as "Tom Riddle"), so anyone possessed by Voldemort should show up as "Tom Riddle". Why doesn't he check the map more often? Or use it in combination with the time turner while investigating either the chapter 79 or 89 incidents (in case Voldemort had cut his time-turner evasion close because he didn't know about the map)?
4th Feb '17 3:35:57 AM FeepingCreature
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** In real life, this is called [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_routing Onion routing.]] Tor uses it.
16th Jan '17 7:25:48 PM ijffdrie
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Added DiffLines:

** It's implied in chapter 28 that being able to transfigure under combat conditions is difficult enough that trying it is pretty much a guaranteed death sentence. Much better to just try and dodge.


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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Dumbledore and the map]]
In chapter 79, Dumbledore (temporarily) retrieves the Map of Hogwarts, and uses it to search for a "Tom Riddle". Quirrel has already been taken into custody at this point, so the only person who would show up on said map would be Harry. However, why would Dumbledore not try to use the map more often? After all, he suspects the shade of Voldemort is hiding at Hogwarts and occasionally possessing people. The map identifies people by their mind, not their body (which Dumbledore knows, because Harry shows up as "Tom Riddle"), so anyone possessed by Voldemort should show up as "Tom Riddle". Why doesn't he check the map more often? Or use it in combination with the time turner while investigating either the chapter 79 or 89 incidents (in case Voldemort had cut his time-turner evasion close because he didn't know about the map)?
31st Oct '16 9:41:04 PM gerion
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**Because to send a Patronus you must honestly wish to tell a messsage. What can you possibly say to[[spoiler: Death incarnate that can't communicate with you? Especially if it behaves as you expect it to, and you know that it CAN'T talk, or even think.]]
4th May '16 10:11:32 PM Thunderflame
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** [[spoiler:Despite knowing a great deal of information theory and caring about rationality, Harry is still influenced by his emotions, and his mysterious dark side carries a heavy bias regarding death.]]

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** [[spoiler:Despite Despite knowing a great deal of information theory and caring about rationality, Harry is still influenced by his emotions, and [[spoiler:and his mysterious dark side carries a heavy bias regarding death.]]
4th May '16 10:10:12 PM Thunderflame
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**[[spoiler:Despite knowing a great deal of information theory and caring about rationality, Harry is still influenced by his emotions, and his mysterious dark side carries a heavy bias regarding death.]]
12th Apr '16 7:40:38 AM Ymirsdaughter
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** Person A wants to send a letter to person D, anonymously. He puts the letter in an envelope with D's name on it, then puts that envelope in an envelope with C's name on it, then hands it to person B. B gives it to C, who opens it and finds the envelope with D's name on it. He hands that envelope to person D. B doesn't know about D, and C doesn't know about A.
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