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** What I wonder is why Voldemort even thought it necessary to kill what he viewed as a loyal and very useful servant to gain mastership of the Elder Wand. By that time he understood that the Elder Wand had transferred its mastership from Grindelwald to Dumbledore, without the former's death, instead merely via the former's defeat in a duel with the latter. (Hey, Voldemort knew Grindelwald was still alive during the time Dumbledore had mastery of the Elder Wand, as he had visited and murdered him in prison after Dumbledore's death.) Voldemort should have understood from that that killing the master was unnecessary: Only defeating in a duel them was.
*** What I don't understand is how Grindelwald became the Elder Wand's master in the first place. He stole it from the previous owner, sure, but he never defeated him in a duel, and didn't kill him, as Voldemort did that decades later. He merely... took it. From like, his beside table, or something. Why did the Elder Wand decide that was enough for ownership? Some people think it's weird that Dumbledore was able to defeat Grindelwald despite being against the legendary wand that supposedly made it's owner invincible, or whatever. But if the wand never actually belonged to Grindelwald in the first place... The Elder Wand could have just been desperate for a true master, and happily accepted Dumbledore the first chance it got.

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** What I wonder is why Voldemort even thought it necessary to kill what he viewed as a loyal and very useful servant to gain mastership of the Elder Wand. By that time he understood that the Elder Wand had transferred its mastership from Grindelwald to Dumbledore, without the former's death, instead merely via the former's defeat in a duel with the latter. (Hey, Voldemort knew Grindelwald was still alive during the time Dumbledore had mastery of the Elder Wand, as he had visited and murdered him in prison after Dumbledore's death.) Voldemort should have understood from that that killing the master was unnecessary: Only defeating them in a duel them was.
*** What I don't understand is how Grindelwald became the Elder Wand's master in the first place. He stole it from the previous owner, sure, but he never defeated him in a duel, and didn't kill him, as Voldemort did that decades later. He merely... took it. From like, his beside table, or something. Why did the Elder Wand decide that was enough for ownership? Some people think it's weird that Dumbledore was able to defeat Grindelwald despite being against the legendary wand that supposedly made it's its owner invincible, or whatever. But if the wand never actually belonged to Grindelwald in the first place... The Elder Wand could have just been desperate for a true master, and happily accepted Dumbledore the first chance it got.



* So, let me see if I understand Harry's plan for the Elder Wand. He plans to never be defeated so that by the time he dies a natural death, the want losses it's power because ownership is never transferred? Harry Potter, who is likely to still have enemies in Death Eaters still loyal to Voldemort's cause, wanting revenge, is planning on getting into no fight in which he will not be defeated FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. And by 'defeat', it can be something as simple as a disarming spell, which can happen easy to even the best of wizards, as Draco disarmed Dumbledore. And the person in question doesn't even have to be wielding the Elder Wand. And, to top it off, he is enacting his plan while pursuing a career in which he hunts down Dark Wizards. If there is ever a Harry Potter 8, I don't think this plan is gonna hold up.

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* So, let me see if I understand Harry's plan for the Elder Wand. He plans to never be defeated so that by the time he dies a natural death, the want losses wand loses it's power because ownership is never transferred? Harry Potter, who is likely to still have enemies in Death Eaters still loyal to Voldemort's cause, wanting revenge, is planning on not getting into no a fight in which he will not be defeated FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. And by 'defeat', it can be something as simple as a disarming spell, which can happen easy to even the best of wizards, as Draco disarmed Dumbledore. And the person in question doesn't even have to be wielding the Elder Wand. And, to top it off, he is enacting his plan while pursuing a career in which he hunts down Dark Wizards. If there is ever a Harry Potter 8, I don't think this plan is gonna hold up.



** Methinks that Harry's plan is not to remain undefeated for the rest of his life, but, rather, to break the Elder Wand's power by making sure that no one actually knows who the hell is the actual owner of the Elder Wand. Sure, many at the school probably heard about the Elder Wand, but are you sure everyone is now going to know about it? There's a good chance that, after Harry gets into the Auror corps, that he could try to ensure that someone else gains the allegiance of the Elder Wand, and since they wouldn't know about it, then the ownership starts getting passed around by accident until no one really knows who is supposed to be the owner.
** I believe this issue is why in the movie, Harry simply snaps the wand and throws it off a bridge.

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** Methinks that Harry's plan is not to remain undefeated for the rest of his life, but, rather, to break the Elder Wand's power by making sure that no one actually knows who the hell is the actual owner of the Elder Wand. Sure, many at the school probably heard about the Elder Wand, but are you sure everyone is now going to know about it? There's a good chance that, after Harry gets into the Auror corps, that he could try to ensure that someone else gains the allegiance of the Elder Wand, and since they wouldn't know about it, then the ownership starts getting passed around by accident until no one really knows who is supposed to be the owner.
** I believe this issue is why why, in the movie, Harry simply snaps the wand and throws it off a bridge.



* The way I saw it, it wasn't just disarming that made wands switch allegiances, but wrestling control from the original owner. In the case of the Elder Wand, well, its a fickle thing and changes around a lot easier.

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* The way I saw it, it wasn't just disarming that made wands switch allegiances, but wrestling control from the original owner. In the case of the Elder Wand, well, its it's a fickle thing and changes around a lot easier.



* The series of events starting from the break-in at Gringotts to Voldemorts demise, take place in almost 24 hours. When the trio leaves Bill and Fleur's house, Hermione has transformed into Bellatrix and uses her wand, which Ron stole from her in Malfoy Manor a few weeks earlier. Hermione had also lost her original wand there. What bugs me is how Hermione specifically says she ''hates'' this wand, feeling like a piece of Bellatrix, but later on, Hermione can use this wand with no problem whatsoever. It's also never mentioned again, and Hermione's wand is being referred to as her own. Besides, since it takes place over a single day, how is there a possibility of having changed wands in that time?\\
I do have a theory that either A: Hermione is just that skilled, or B: Since Ron took the wand, it became his wand and since Hermione loves him, that makes it easier. Or maybe both. But if it became Ron's wand, then why does Hermione still sense it to be Bellatrix' wand later on?

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* The series of events starting from the break-in at Gringotts to Voldemorts demise, Voldemort's demise take place in almost a little under 24 hours. When the trio leaves Bill and Fleur's house, Hermione has transformed into Bellatrix and uses her wand, which Ron stole from her in Malfoy Manor a few weeks earlier. Hermione had also lost her original wand there. What bugs me is how Hermione specifically says she ''hates'' this wand, feeling like a piece of Bellatrix, but later on, Hermione can use this wand with no problem whatsoever. It's also never mentioned again, and Hermione's wand is being referred to as her own. Besides, since it takes place over a single day, how is there a possibility of having changed wands in that time?\\
I do have a theory that either A: Hermione is just that skilled, or B: Since Ron took the wand, it became his wand wand, and since Hermione loves him, that makes it easier. Or maybe both. But if it became Ron's wand, then why does Hermione still sense it to be Bellatrix' wand later on?
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*** One way of looking at it that combines both: Perhaps all the wand-related events prior to the last book are consistent with the "rules", either because genuine "defeat" hadn't occurred before, or because the Elder Wand is special. However, it might have been better for Elder-Wand-y-type rules to be sprinkled throughout the story — for example, by having a friednly-fight disarmed wand always be returned to its owner in some kind of official "i give you your wand" ceremony, or by having Harry's wand do less well for him ever since some Death Eater or other had disarmed it in the Department of Mysteries.

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*** One way of looking at it that combines both: Perhaps all the wand-related events prior to the last book are consistent with the "rules", either because genuine "defeat" hadn't occurred before, or because the Elder Wand is special. However, it might have been better for Elder-Wand-y-type rules to be sprinkled throughout the story — for example, by having a friednly-fight friendly-fight disarmed wand always be returned to its owner in some kind of official "i "I give you your wand" ceremony, or by having Harry's wand do less well for him ever since some Death Eater or other had disarmed it in the Department of Mysteries.



*** Dumbledore really got his suspicions confirmed in Chamber of Secrets. He was suspicious once he heard about Harry sensing Voldemort's presence; his scar hurting when he was nearby he'd never heard about anything about that no doubt. The fact that he had proof that Voldemort used Horcruxes made the theory all but confirmed after all it wouldn't be that too far out when dealing with uncommon magic like Horcruxes.

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*** Dumbledore really got his suspicions confirmed in Chamber of Secrets. He was suspicious once he heard about Harry sensing Voldemort's presence; his scar hurting when he was nearby he'd never heard about anything about that no doubt. The fact that he had proof that Voldemort used Horcruxes made the theory all but confirmed confirmed, after all it wouldn't be that too far out when dealing with uncommon magic like Horcruxes.



** Cats don't have great senses of smell, relative to other predators. That misconception in fact was addressed(albeit not well) in book three(Crookshanks likely did smell Scabbers but couldn't sniff out his exact location). What cats do have that most other predators lack is an ability to sense air currents, which allows them to ascertain the location of objects and their general surroundings even when they cannot see(or ''smell'', or even hear, which is why cats have their infamously flighty reactions when they are caught off guard. They get used to having an idea where things are before their other senses identify what they are). The invisibility cloak would not stop its user from displacing air, so any cat that's not distracted would be able to tell ''something'' is around them. When it's sight doesn't match the air currents, it's going to know something is wrong and focus its other senses. Given enough time, Miss Norris should be able to tell living from ghost, but all the cloak wearer really needs to do is keep moving. As long as they don't make too much noise the cat's still going to have trouble tracking what it can't see and will have to find it all over again should the cat leave the area to, say, get Filch.

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** Cats don't have great senses of smell, relative to other predators. That misconception in fact was addressed(albeit addressed (albeit not well) in book three(Crookshanks three (Crookshanks likely did smell Scabbers but couldn't sniff out his exact location). What cats do have that most other predators lack is an ability to sense air currents, which allows them to ascertain the location of objects and their general surroundings even when they cannot see(or see (or ''smell'', or even hear, which is why cats have their infamously flighty reactions when they are caught off guard. They get used to having an idea where things are before their other senses identify what they are). The invisibility cloak would not stop its user from displacing air, so any cat that's not distracted would be able to tell ''something'' is around them. When it's sight doesn't match the air currents, it's going to know something is wrong and focus its other senses. Given enough time, Miss Norris should be able to tell living from ghost, but all the cloak wearer really needs to do is keep moving. As long as they don't make too much noise noise, the cat's still going to have trouble tracking what it can't see see, and will have to find it all over again should the cat leave the area to, say, get Filch.



** Longbottom has his father's wand, and it doesn't work well for him. So, no, just inheriting the wand isn't enough. "The wand chooses the wizard" thing was literal, if it doesn't deem you worthy, too bad. What makes the Elder Wand special is that it has a tendency to deem the holder unworthy, should they fail. Other wands might deem more than one person worthy to work with. Furthermore, the elder wand is fickle, not only does it tend to change allegiances entirely but will do so very quickly for petty reasons. Whether or not Death itself literally made it to get people killed or not doesn't change the fact their is historical evidence, InUniverse, of the Elder Wand getting many people killed. There is also historical evidence, Death made or not, that the Hallows are ''not'' infallible. They are very good at what they do, but ''not'' perfect, nor absolute. So what, these details were in ''Tales From Beetle The Bard'', AllTheirInTheManual if you will, but they were still written down in a book for fans who wanted to know more about the setting.

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** Longbottom has his father's wand, and it doesn't work well for him. So, no, just inheriting the wand isn't enough. "The wand chooses the wizard" thing was literal, if it doesn't deem you worthy, too bad. What makes the Elder Wand special is that it has a tendency to deem the holder unworthy, should they fail. Other wands might deem more than one person worthy to work with. Furthermore, the elder wand is fickle, not only does it tend to change allegiances entirely but will do so very quickly for petty reasons. Whether or not Death itself literally made it to get people killed or not doesn't change the fact their there is historical evidence, InUniverse, of the Elder Wand getting many people killed. There is also historical evidence, Death made or not, that the Hallows are ''not'' infallible. They are very good at what they do, but ''not'' perfect, nor absolute. So what, these details were in ''Tales From Beetle The Bard'', AllTheirInTheManual AllThereInTheManual if you will, but they were still written down in a book for fans who wanted to know more about the setting.
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* There's the song that Hagrid sings that suggests at least some of them have their wands broken after they die.
->And Odo the hero, they bore him back home
->To the place that he'd known as a lad,
->They laid him to rest with his hat inside out
->And his wand snapped in two, which was sad.
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* The series of events starting from the break-in at Gringotts to Voldemorts demise, take place in almost 24 hours. When the trio leaves Bill and Fleur's house, Hermione has transformed into Bellatrix and uses her wand, which Ron stole from her in Malfoy Manor a few weeks earlier. Hermione had also lost her original wand there. What bugs me is how Hermione specifically says she ''hates'' this wand, feeling like a piece of Bellatrix, but later on, Hermione can use this wand with no problem whatsoever. It's also never mentioned again, and Hermione's wand is being referred to as her own. Besides, since it takes place over a single day, how is there a possibility of having changed wands in that time?\\
I do have a theory that either A: Hermione is just that skilled, or B: Since Ron took the wand, it became his wand and since Hermione loves him, that makes it easier. Or maybe both. But if it became Ron's wand, then why does Hermione still sense it to be Bellatrix' wand later on?
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*** He could theoretically have done this "offscreen" in the books too, before reburying it with Dumbledore.

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*** He could theoretically have done this "offscreen" in the books too, before reburying it the fragments with Dumbledore.
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*** He could theoretically have done this "offscreen" in the books too, before reburying it with Dumbledore.
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** Cats don't have great senses of smell, relative to other predators. That misconception in fact was addressed(albeit not well) in book three(Crookshanks likely did smell Scabbers but couldn't sniff out his exact location). What cats do have that most other predators lack is an ability to sense air currents, which allows them to ascertain the location of objects and their general surroundings even when they cannot see(or ''smell'', or even hear, which is why cats have their infamously flighty reactions when they are caught off guard. They get used to having an idea where things are before their other senses identify what they are). The invisibility cloak would not stop its user from displacing air, so any cat that's not distracted would be able to tell ''something'' is around them. When it's sight doesn't match the air currents, it's going to know something is wrong and focus its other senses. Given enough time, Miss Norris should be able to tell living from ghost, but all the cloak wearer really needs to do is keep moving. As long as they don't make too much noise the cat's still going to have trouble tracking what it can't see and will have to find it all over again should the cat leave the area to, say, get Filch.


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** Longbottom has his father's wand, and it doesn't work well for him. So, no, just inheriting the wand isn't enough. "The wand chooses the wizard" thing was literal, if it doesn't deem you worthy, too bad. What makes the Elder Wand special is that it has a tendency to deem the holder unworthy, should they fail. Other wands might deem more than one person worthy to work with. Furthermore, the elder wand is fickle, not only does it tend to change allegiances entirely but will do so very quickly for petty reasons. Whether or not Death itself literally made it to get people killed or not doesn't change the fact their is historical evidence, InUniverse, of the Elder Wand getting many people killed. There is also historical evidence, Death made or not, that the Hallows are ''not'' infallible. They are very good at what they do, but ''not'' perfect, nor absolute. So what, these details were in ''Tales From Beetle The Bard'', AllTheirInTheManual if you will, but they were still written down in a book for fans who wanted to know more about the setting.
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** Thing is, we don't really know for sure where Lucius Malfoy's wand came from originally. Maybe it was an heirloom from his mother or his father. (The Harry Potter wiki claims that it is 1000 years old, but does not source its claim.) That wand was destroyed in the Battle of the Seven Potters. Which is kind of the point - Wands wear out (though Pottermore states that an old core might be encased in a new wood, 'axe of your grandfather'-style), wands are broken, wands turn out to be unsuitable for certain personalities, and a healthy society tends to have more children than grandparents or great-grandparents to inherit wands from. Lucius's wife, after all, had two sisters. So no doubt some pure-bloods have a spare wand or two from their ancestors, some don't, some have wands with family cores that have been refurbished, and some have had to buy theirs new.
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*** In the book, Grindelwald hit Gregorovitch with a spell as he made off with the wand, which counted as a defeat. Voldemort also may've thought that you had to prove you were more powerful than the wand's owner, in order to truly master it yourself. Snape killing Dumbledore was more powerful than Dumbledore disarming (or whatever he did) Grindelwald - therefore, Voldemort had to overpower Snape's defeat in order for the wand's allegiance to transfer. And in the film, Voldemort makes it a point to slit Snape's throat ''before'' setting Nagini on him, presumably to circumvent the original headscratcher.
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** Harry was in the Headmaster's office when he announced that he would return the wand to Dumbledore's tomb. Ron, Hermione, and the portraits on the walls were the only other people there to hear him. Even if someone does manage to disarm Harry to try and get the wand, they won't know where to find it.
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* Particularly that we repeatedly see wizards are rendered helpless when they are disarmed, which in later books often leads to their death. For some reason, there seems to be an unwritten rule amongst wizards that you can't carry ''a spare wand''. So, why not?
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** The Elder Wand, meanwhile, is a special case, as it seems to work on an ExactWords/LoopholeAbuse type of deal. The oldest brother in the tale asked for a wand that was unbeatable, and would always win duels for its master - because of this, the wand, while still more powerful than most others, is designed to just switch to the allegiance of whoever wins a duel, rather than guarantee that the one wielding it now ''will'' be the winner.

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** The Elder Wand, meanwhile, is a special case, as it seems to work on an ExactWords/LoopholeAbuse ExactWords / LoopholeAbuse type of deal. The oldest brother in the tale asked for a wand that was unbeatable, and would always win duels for its master - because of this, the wand, while still more powerful than most others, is designed to just switch to the allegiance of whoever wins a duel, rather than guarantee that the one wielding it now ''will'' be the winner.
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** The Elder Wand, meanwhile, is a special case, as it seems to work on an [[ExactWords]]/[[LoopholeAbuse]] type of deal. The oldest brother in the tale asked for a wand that was unbeatable, and would always win duels for its master - because of this, the wand, while still more powerful than most others, is designed to just switch to the allegiance of whoever wins a duel, rather than guarantee that the one wielding it now ''will'' be the winner.

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** The Elder Wand, meanwhile, is a special case, as it seems to work on an [[ExactWords]]/[[LoopholeAbuse]] ExactWords/LoopholeAbuse type of deal. The oldest brother in the tale asked for a wand that was unbeatable, and would always win duels for its master - because of this, the wand, while still more powerful than most others, is designed to just switch to the allegiance of whoever wins a duel, rather than guarantee that the one wielding it now ''will'' be the winner.
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** The Elder Wand, meanwhile, is a special case, as it seems to work on an [[ExactWords]]/[[LoopholeAbuse]] type of deal. The oldest brother in the tale asked for a wand that was unbeatable, and would always win duels for its master - because of this, the wand, while still more powerful than most others, is designed to just switch to the allegiance of whoever wins a duel, rather than guarantee that the one wielding it now ''will'' be the winner.
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** Stealing someone's wand doesn't guarantee that it will completely accept you as its new master - it depends on the type of wand, and specifically its core. Some wands choose one witch or wizard and won't function nearly as well or at all in the hands of another. Each and every one is unique.
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* If the wand chooses the wizard, and it's meant to be this special mystical bond (as implied by Ollivander going on about different wand affinities to their owners), how come stealing someone's wand transfers all its loyalty? The wand chooses the wizard until its choice is overpowered and then it just goes with whoever's stronger? The Elder Wand doesn't seem to have any choice in the climax; it just gets passed unknowingly from wizard to wizard until it finally ends up in the same room as its actual master.
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*** Mrs. Norris is a cat, she could be smelling Harry, not seeing him (I don’t remember exactly if the book actually states she sees him, is more like that she notices him, that considering cats more developed sense of smell and ear is not hard to believe). And even if she saw him under the cloak, it is possible that certain animals can see through the cloak as it was something design to hide you so maybe the creator has to say, when casting the charm: “this cloak will make me invisible from humans, dementors, giants, dragons [add everything that can harm you]” and he didn’t include domestic cats for obvious reasons. Actually now that I think about it, doesn’t Hermione’s cat also seem to perceive people under the cloak? This would add to the theory that cats’ eyes can see though the cloak for whatever reason.

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*** Mrs. Norris is a cat, she could be smelling Harry, not seeing him (I don’t remember exactly if the book actually states she sees him, is more like that she notices him, that considering cats cats' more developed sense of smell and ear is not hard to believe). And even if she saw him under the cloak, it is possible that certain animals can see through the cloak as it was something design to hide you so maybe the creator has to say, when casting the charm: “this cloak will make me invisible from humans, dementors, giants, dragons [add everything that can harm you]” and he didn’t include domestic cats for obvious reasons. Actually now that I think about it, doesn’t Hermione’s cat also seem to perceive people under the cloak? This would add to the theory that cats’ eyes can see though the cloak for whatever reason.
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***Mrs. Norris is a cat, she could be smelling Harry, not seeing him (I don’t remember exactly if the book actually states she sees him, is more like that she notices him, that considering cats more developed sense of smell and ear is not hard to believe). And even if she saw him under the cloak, it is possible that certain animals can see through the cloak as it was something design to hide you so maybe the creator has to say, when casting the charm: “this cloak will make me invisible from humans, dementors, giants, dragons [add everything that can harm you]” and he didn’t include domestic cats for obvious reasons. Actually now that I think about it, doesn’t Hermione’s cat also seem to perceive people under the cloak? This would add to the theory that cats’ eyes can see though the cloak for whatever reason.
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*** What I don't understand is how Grindelwald became the Elder Wand's master in the first place. He stole it from the previous owner, sure, but he never defeated him in a duel, and didn't kill him, as Voldemort did that decades later. He merely... took it. From like, his beside table, or something. Why did the Elder Wand decide that was enough for ownership? Some people think it's weird that Dumbledore was able to defeat Grindelwald despite being against the legendary wand that supposedly made it's owner invincible, or whatever. But if the wand never actually belonged to Grindelwald in the first place... The Elder Wand could have just been desperate for a true master, and happily accepted Dumbledore the first chance it got.
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***** One way of looking at it that combines both: Perhaps all the wand-related events prior to the last book are consistent with the "rules", either because genuine "defeat" hadn't occurred before, or because the Elder Wand is special. However, it might have been better for Elder-Wand-y-type rules to be sprinkled throughout the story — for example, by having a friednly-fight disarmed wand always be returned to its owner in some kind of official "i give you your wand" ceremony, or by having Harry's wand do less well for him ever since some Death Eater or other had disarmed it in the Department of Mysteries.
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** What I wonder is why Voldemort even thought it necessary to kill what he viewed as a loyal and very useful servant to gain mastership of the Elder Wand. By that time he understood that the Elder Wand had transferred its mastership from Grindelwald to Dumbledore, without the former's death, instead merely via the former's defeat in a duel with the latter. (Hey, Voldemort knew Grindelwald was still alive during the time Dumbledore had mastery of the Elder Wand, as he had visited and murdered him in prison after Dumbledore's death.) Voldemort should have understood from that that killing the master was unnecessary: Only defeating in a duel them was.
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** I believe this issue is why in the movie, Harry simply snaps the wand and throws it off a bridge.

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