History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallowsSlytherinHouse

** And then tell his son to just choose Gryffindor, rendering it completely meaningless.
** Yes, Snape was brave. That works both ways. There were Death Eaters that joined Voldemort because they were weak, or because they were afraid or whatever, and Death Eaters that after his fall, pretended to be on the good side and having been under the Imperius Curse. Snape was neither. He joined Voldemort because he genuinely believed in all that he stood for, and had to be blackmailed by Dumbledore to join the good guys. Regulus Black was much the same, believing in pure blood supremacy and the Dark Arts and all that jazz, whereas his older brother, born to the same family, saw the truth of things and was promptly the first in the family to be a Gryffindor. That is, until Kreacher endured torture by Voldemort and he started hating him. Narcissa married a Death Eater, led a home where the House-Elf beats himself and where many poisons were being kept long after Voldemort's fall, and was the one to instruct Kreacher how to lead Harry off to his death until Draco's life was hanging in the balance and she needed to trust Harry.

** After telling his son to just choose Gryffindor, completely ruining what could have been a very heartwarming moment.

** Gryffindor, Song 1: brave at heart, daring, nerve, chivalry. Song 2: bravest. Song 3: brave deeds, daring, chivalry. Ravenclaw, Song 1: Wise, steady mind, wit, enjoys learning. Song2: cleverest. Song 3: sharp mind, intelligience. Hufflepuff, Song 1: just, patient, loyal, unafraid of toil. Song 2: Hard-workers. Song 3: Teach the lot, take the rest. Slytherin Song 1: cunning, do anything to achieve their means. Song 2: Great ambition. Song 3: Pure ancestry, cunning. *Phew* that's all of them. As we can see, the exact requirements seem to be stated differently every year, but basically Gryffindor is for people who are brave, daring, and chivalrous. Ravenclaw is for those who are smart. Slytherin is for cunning, pure ancestry, and ambition. Finally, Hufflepuff is for anyone as long as they're willing to work hard. The reason Slytherins are portrayed as evil in the Fanon, is because the Canon does a crappy job of portraying them as anything different. Harry hates Slytherins, and they are constantly shown in a negative light besides a few examples such as Slughorn and maybe Snape. ''Never'' has the books shown a single student in Slytherin who wasn't a JerkAss.

* Harry is also an UnreliableNarrator, in that it's told from his perspective, and we only see his confrontations with Malfoy, who is a Death Eater's son, and with the Slytherin Quidditch team, who are a bunch of stupid, overcompetitive jocks. In fact, even in the first book, Harry wonders if he is seeing the Slytherins as an unpleasant lot because of what he's been told about them, and let it colour his opinion.

* I think one of the greatest issues with this is the epilogue as well. Harry Potter reassures his son that Slytherin isn't evil. Most people see that as an anvillicious WordOfGod that Slytherin isn't evil any more. No, it actually means the opposite. Nineteen years after the battle of Hogwarts and Voldemort's defeat- that's nearly three full school-generations of kids- Slytherin '''still''' has a reputation of evil so pervasive that Harry '''needs''' to reassure his youngest child that Slytherin isn't actually evil. If Harry actually raised his own children, Albus certainly wouldn't have been hearing all these "Slytherin is evil" rumours from his parents. That stereotype still remains in society.

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*** Slughorn hardly is that bad. Dumbledore himself says that other teachers have offered leg-ups to talented students before. And even Dumbledore acknowledges that Slughorn is very good at putting people in places where their talents would be best used. When Voldemort takes over, Slughorn remains at school with the other teachers to protect the kids, when he'd have more reasons then most to flee and hide (since he's one of the few who could probably piece together that Voldemort has multiple Horcruxes). He's even willing to face ''Voldemort'' in combat. He's also shown to be a fairly good Potions teacher, who at the very least is interested in his subject matter and does want to make the subject interesting to his pupils. All in all, Slughorn looks better than a lot of Hogwarts teachers (like Mr. Binns). Add on top of that, Slughorn does look like he'd be more fun to hang out with then [[TheStoic [=McGonagall=]]].

*** Ultimately, I think a lot of the negativity regarding Slytherin is based on reputation. The Sorting Hat did seem to make subtle criticisms towards the house I think (possibly out of loyalty to Gryffindor after he and Slytherin parted ways). Plus there's the fact that Voldemort only recruited Death Eaters from that house. I don't think that means only Slytherins are capable of evil; I think Voldemort thought the other houses were not worth his time. Then there's the fact that Slytherin's animal is a snake, which, given that Voldemort is a Parseltongue, increases the dark reputation. Then there's the fact that Slytherin himself kept a huge, ''fucking'' snake in a secret chamber specifically to hunt down and kill non-purebloods. Like I said. Bad rep.

*** Agreed. Perhaps it is best to compare the four houses to the (stereo)typical four-class D&D party--fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue. (Yes, even though they're ''all'' wizards. Just deal with it.) Gryffindor is the "fighter", Hufflepuff the "cleric", Ravenclaw the "wizard", and Slytherin the "rogue". This analogy works surprisingly well, IMHO.

*** Anyway, by Book 7 Draco Malfoy and his crew have been ruling the underclassmen of Slytherin House for years. By the time the big fight happens, there would've been very few Slytherins who were both old enough to fight ''and'' defiant enough to risk death, especially if two of their teachers and the headmaster himself were Death Eaters. Besides, who would they turn to? Not the other teachers, not anyone in Hogsmeade, and ''definitely'' not the DA (no green banners in their Room of Requirement HQ). The only option that jibes with Slytherin's powerful self-preservation instincts would be to play along and pray no one sets off the Carrows' BerserkButton.

*** Especially with the fighter, wizard cleric, rogue parallel, I like to think that there were some Slytherins trained in sniping spells hiding in the towers and switching rooms so they didn't get caught by an overwhelming force of death eater sympathizers at any given time, maybe working as guerrillas where they knew some of the quirks of the castle or were outdoorsy enough to hang out in the forbidden forest between strikes. The ambition part, however, would have made it nearly impossible for them to say, "I was there, I just didn't want to do anything obvious enough to get caught like a stupid- I mean brave, really! Gyryffindor", and be believed.
** Gryffindor, Song 1: brave at heart, daring, nerve, chivalry. Song 2: bravest. Song 3: brave deeds, daring, chivalry. Ravenclaw, Song 1: Wise, steady mind, wit, enjoy learning. Song2:cleverest. Song 3: sharp mind, intelligience. Hufflepuff, Song 1: just, patient, loyal, unafraid of toil. Song 2: Hard-workers, . Song 3: Teach the lot, take the rest. Slytherin Song 1: cunning, do anything to achieve their means. Song 2: Great ambition. Song 3: Pure ancestry, cunning. *Phew* that's all of them. As we can see, the exact requirements seem to be stated differently every year, but basically Gryffindor is for people who are brave, daring, and chivalrous. Ravenclaw is for those who are smart. Slytherin is for cunning, pure ancestry, and ambition. Finally Hufflepuff is for anyone as long as they're willing to work hard. The reason Slytherins are portrayed as evil in the Fanon, is because the Canon does a crappy job of portraying them as anything different. Harry hates Slytherins and they are constantly shown in a negative light besides a few examples such as Slughorn and maybe Snape. ''Never'' has the books shown a single student in Slytherin who wasn't a JerkAss.
*** That brings up a problem I had with the descriptions: One definition of "cunning" is "in a sly, deceitful way" (quote Dictionary.com), but another, quite common definition is "clever". If Ravenclaws are supposed to be smart ''and'' clever, which throws out the possibility that [[DitzyGenius the only requirement is Intelligence]] and Slytherin [[OnlySaneMan sorts with a bias for high Wisdom as well]], that basically leaves Slytherin with "''conniving'' and ambition". [[FantasticRacism And no part-muggles]], [[AccidentalAesop unless they're]] ''[[MagicalNegro really]]'' [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop clever and ambitious]] (I'm probably overthinking the last line's UnfortunateImplications [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic too much]]).

Yes, Snape was brave. That works both ways. There were Death Eaters that joined Voldemort because they were weak, or because they were afriad or whatever and Death Eaters that after his fall pretended to be on the good side and having been under the Imperius Curse. Snape was neither. He joined Voldemort because he genuinely believed in all that he stood for, and had to be blackmailed by Dumbledore to join the good guys. Regulus Black was much the same, believing in pure blood supremacy and the Dark Arts and all that jazz whereas his older brother, born to the same family saw the truth of things and was promptly the first in the family to be a Gryffindor. Until Kreacher endured torture by Voldemort and he started hating him. Narcissa married a Death Eater, led a home where the House-Elf beats himself and where many poisons were being kept long after Voldemorts fall and was the one to instruct Kreacher how to lead Harry off to his death until Draco's life was hanging in the balance and she needed to trust Harry.

** Okay, so saying "I want to die" is not brave. (I actually don't recall this, but I'll take your word for it that it happened.) It's not brave. But Snape played triple agent for over twenty years, working loyally for Dumbledore, a man he resented. Originally he only did it for Lily, a selfish reason, but the fact that he continued working for Dumbledore after Lily's death, and after the fact that he blamed Dumbledore for Lily's death, says something for him. I'd say that everything mixes into unclear-ness (wow, a new word,) if it hadn't been for how he treated his students, but as I said in "Severus Snape: Good or Bad", I believe that that aspect of him is meant to be taken with a very large pinch of salt.
* Whoa, whoa... Snape went willingly to Dumbledore so that Lily (and her family by proxy) could be protected; he basically went out of his way to sell himself as a spy to help keep his beloved safe (however creepy that [[StalkerWithACrush relationship]] may be). I wouldn't really call that blackmail - in fact, it could be the brave thing that warrants Harry ''naming his kid after the man''.

So the best a Slytherin can be is still a vile discriminating criminal just with an exploitable weak spot for someone. At the end of the day Slughorn is the only Slytherin with the heart actually in the right place (though 16 years of teaching children finally seemed to mellow Snape out a little) and he still is portrayed in a pretty grey light. Why doesn't Harry care if his son is sorted in this House again? Whatever message you are trying to send here JKR, not really getting it.

* The concept of Houses Sorted by personality/etc. bugs me inherently, but Slytherin in particular. Slytherins make friends with Slytherins; Gryffs make friends with Gryffs; 'Puffs make friends with 'Puffs and 'Claws make friends with 'Claws - not as a rule, but we see these friendships most, since people usually associate with the people inside of their House. ''Everyone was already noticing a trend that people in Slytherin often turned into Death Eaters.'' A very plausible reason for this would be that ''being in Slytherin House, the people a Slytherin child would associate with most would be with other Slytherins - and often people who were already children of Death Eaters.'' And instead of mixing up the Houses so that young, impressionable children would be given a lot of different influences, ''they kept all the Slyths together, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of Slytherin=Death Eater.''
** There may be a good reason for this: No matter how the house situation was, there would always be children of Death Eaters who were inclined to have an interest in the dark arts. So putting them all together in one house would 1. Make sure they're all somewhere that the teachers could keep an eye on them and 2. Limit their exposure to other students who might be peer-pressured into joining them. Obviously this also procludes the chances of other students' good traits rubbing off on the Slytherins, but oh well.
* This all is one of the reasons why I really liked that the Sorting Hat wanted to put Harry in Slytherin, and he probably would have let it if he hadn't heard so many bad things about it: the hero of the story is as Slytherin-ish as any good Slytherin because Slytherins can be good people too. And then it turned out that the reason that he almost went to Slytherin was not any natural Slytherin tendencies, but because he had Voldemort's blood. So no, Slytherins are all evil after all, and the good guy isn't a Slytherin at all.

*** Harry had ambition - "...a nice thirst to prove youself..." In fact the Hat wanted to put him in Slytherin, and would have except that he chose not to. If anyone else other than Hagrid had picked Harry up, he would never have thought that Slytherins were all evil, and would have been sitting at the green and silver table.
* A lot of people are bugged by Slytherin House being made out to be evil. I have the perfect reason for why Slytherins can become bad wizards. Slytherins are supposed to be ambitious, right? Ambitious people want more power and will usually use any means to reach that powerful state. Because they are so ambitious, they tend to lean or fall into the Dark Arts since it seems to be so much more powerful than the normal magic. They feel they are more powerful than their "Light" magic using counterparts and show off to their counterparts how great they are. The rest of the Houses look upon this ambition and Dark Arts using with concern, fear, and maybe a bit of jealousy. They don't understand this ambition since they don't have it. They mark this ambition and Dark Arts using to being evil, therefore making Slytherin to be full of evil. This then influences the Slytherin attitude (I assume because they are still human they affected by Sociology) and justifies the attitude of the other Houses. In summation, Slytherins aren't necessarily evil but their ambition and past plus present attitudes tend to make them fall into evil.

*** Earlier interviews, bks 1-4, people asked why DD did not abolish the House of Evil. Jo said DD wanted to give people a second chance. She lied. Slug, Andromeda, Phineas and Regulus PROVE that Slyth only became the House of AlwaysChaoticEvil under Snape's regime because of DD's plan for the "Geater Good."

*** Don't know about you, but I'm happy with doing reasonably well and living a nice life. Being a protagonist usually implies having shit thrown at you. I'd rather be a side character, thank you. Hufflepuffs feel proud for their house because they're loyal to their house. That's their defining trait, after all. They're the House of Sidekicks, in a way. Not meant to be at center stage, but integral to keep the world afloat. I, for one, would like being Hufflepuff.
**** Exactly. Asking why someone would be excited to be a Hufflepuff because they're background characters is missing the point. The fact that they * are* interested in modestly working in the background * is what makes them Hufflepuffs.*

**** Slughorn spent a whole year constantly on the run for his ''life'' because he refused to knuckle under and join the bad guys. He could have stopped at any time and said, "All right, I'm sick of my life always being in danger, I'll join you." Instead, he did what was right. He was never a coward, he just had to fight the Slytherin tendency to think of self-preservation first (if for any sinful reason than for one of self-centeredness, not cowardice).

****** I always assumed that this was cultural damage as a result of Voldemort turning the pure blood wizards on to genocide against anyone who could not prove two or more generations of inbreeding. There is little to indicate that the pure blood mania is a natural part of Slytherin. The entire wizarding world of the UK has been through a bloody civil war not twenty years earlier and this is some of the backlash from it...

**** Because all of the Slytherins who were even ''allowed'' to stay ''were'' assholes. No one except those of age were allowed to stay (Colin aside, but then again, Gryffindor = bravery; he was like the only resistance member in Gryffindor who wasn't of age) and of the Slytherins we know were of age, Malfoy and Goyle were there (though ultimately useless and/or for different reasons) as was Crabbe (who sided with the Death Eaters) Pansy left, and Zabini probably did the same. That's it. That's ALL of the Slytherins we know. And hardly anyone else would have even been allowed to be there.
**** Because the word of God was actually revisionism when compared to the books? The Slytherins of age we know were more likely to side with Death Eaters. And were they rejected by other Slytherins? Never mentioned. And Aberforth argued that they should have kept the Slytherins -- as hostages. So, after all of this, would we have believed, in the books, that the Slytherins came back to fight on Harry's side, even if they had to fight their own parents?

**** Bolleaux! "Riddle has seven Horcruces. You gotta get 'em all." DD wasted the whole year telling Harry nothing.

*** Slughorn hardly is that bad. Dumbledore himself says that other teachers have offered leg-ups to talented students before. And even Dumbledore acknowledges that Slughorn is very good at putting people in places where their talents would be best used. When Voldemort takes over, Slughorn remains at school with the other teachers to protect the kids, when he'd have more reasons then most to flee and hide (since he's one of the few who could probably piece together that Voldemort has multiple horcruxes). He's even willing to face ''Voldemort'' in combat. He's also shown to be a fairly good potions teacher, who at the very least in interested in his subject matter and does want to make the subject interesting to his pupils. All in all, Slughorn looks better then a lot of Hogwarts teachers like Mr. Binns. Add on top of that, Slughorn does look like he'd be more fun to hang out with then [[TheStoic [=McGonagall=]]].