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* The IdiotPlot that starts off ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundam0083StardustMemory Stardust Memory]]''. Who THE HELL equips a live nuclear warhead to a prototype that hasn't been evaluated yet and for that matter is done practically ''out in the open''?

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* The IdiotPlot plot that starts off ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundam0083StardustMemory Stardust Memory]]''. Who THE HELL equips a live nuclear warhead to a prototype that hasn't been evaluated yet and for that matter is done practically ''out in the open''?



** That's because Zeon has a weird approach to weapon designing : basically, they create a crapton of prototypes, send them on the battlefield and mass produce the ones getting actual results. In fact, that's how they noticed the awesomeness of mobile suits in the first place! What's more, they also have a tendency to create overly specialized mechs, which effectively means they need a lot of different models running around (the Gundam's JackOfAllTrades skillset was revolutionary for the time period).

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** That's because Zeon has a weird approach to weapon designing : designing: basically, they create a crapton of prototypes, send them on the battlefield and mass produce the ones getting actual results. In fact, that's how they noticed the awesomeness of mobile suits in the first place! What's more, they also have a tendency to create overly specialized mechs, which effectively means they need a lot of different models running around (the Gundam's JackOfAllTrades skillset was revolutionary for the time period).
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*** Two probable components. One, the Federation is arrogant. They pushed back the Zeonic forces with what they had, and they THINK Zeon has been neutered after the OYW. Two is cost/benefit ratio. The cost to refit the GM II or any other unit is higher than the perceived benefit (most combat is in space, wiping up remnants or "sympathizers", so refitting new units for underwater is nearly pointless).

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** It is, it's called a "[[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam correction]]".[[/folder]]

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** It is, it's called a "[[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam correction]]".correction]]".
** The supplementary material confirms that with the Federation, physically striking soldiers, subordinates, etc. is standard punishment for just about every offense, no matter how small. It is regulation.
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* The only reason why most of the time the Federation didn't retaliate by dropping bomb or toxic gas is not that they didn't want to but because they can't and they want to appear to have the moral high ground. Remember, GP02A was approved the use of nuclear warhead by the Federation and in Unicorn, they approved of the Vist using Colony Laser to destroy Side 7. So they totally intend to use extreme method, it's just that most of the time, they don't have enough resource to do so.

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* The only reason why most of the time the Federation didn't retaliate by dropping bomb or toxic gas is not that they didn't want to but because they can't and they want to appear to have the moral high ground. Remember, GP02A was approved the use of nuclear warhead by the Federation and in Unicorn, they approved of the Vist using Colony Laser to destroy Side 7. So they totally intend to use extreme method, it's just that most of the time, they don't have enough resource to do so.
so.[[/folder]]
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** The only reason why most of the time the Federation didn't retaliate by dropping bomb or toxic gas is not that they didn't want to but because they can't and they want to appear to have the moral high ground. Remember, GP02A was approved the use of nuclear warhead by the Federation and in Unicorn, they approved of the Vist using Colony Laser to destroy Side 7. So they totally intend to use extreme method, it's just that most of the time, they don't have enough resource to do so.

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** * The only reason why most of the time the Federation didn't retaliate by dropping bomb or toxic gas is not that they didn't want to but because they can't and they want to appear to have the moral high ground. Remember, GP02A was approved the use of nuclear warhead by the Federation and in Unicorn, they approved of the Vist using Colony Laser to destroy Side 7. So they totally intend to use extreme method, it's just that most of the time, they don't have enough resource to do so.
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** The only reason why most of the time the Federation didn't retaliate by dropping bomb or toxic gas is not that they didn't want to but because they can't and they want to appear to have the moral high ground. Remember, GP02A was approved the use of nuclear warhead by the Federation and in Unicorn, they approved of the Vist using Colony Laser to destroy Side 7. So they totally intend to use extreme method, it's just that most of the time, they don't have enough resource to do so.
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***That does not explain why no one in the EFF ever developed an Aqua variant of any suits past the OYW (the GM Marine Type, Guncannon Aquas, and Ball Marine Types of Thunderbolt are all modifications of OYW suits). Thunderbolt, Double Zeta, & Unicorn show that the Zeon Remnants and other third parties are a creditable naval threat. The Zee Zulu & the Shamblo were designed by people who never even SEEN the ocean, yet they wreck havoc on the Federation. Zeon even destroyed the naval forces at Torrington, the EFF testing base. It stretches my believably a bit that no one thought "Huh, all of our specialized Aqua units go back to the OYW, and all our Zaku Mariners got stolen. How about we modify the Aqua GM kit for the GM II or something?"

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Clarification for GM Sniper units


** It's very likely there's a good reason (like it has to be on the outside with the majority of it inside) but it's an artistic choice for the series in-universe as well as out mostly. As the novelization of the original Gundam series says, there's no reason to put legs on space mobile suits but they do anyway.[[/folder]]

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** It's very likely there's a good reason (like it has to be on the outside with the majority of it inside) but it's an artistic choice for the series in-universe as well as out mostly. As the novelization of the original Gundam series says, there's no reason to put legs on space mobile suits but they do anyway.anyway.
** It's sometimes a case of additional modifications of a base design. For your GM Sniper example, the OG Sniper & the Sniper II were based off existing designs, and their sniper packages were added on later. The Sniper Custom was built from the ground up as a sniper platform, and thus had their added sensors inside the head, and the visor was for protecting those sensors. Similar equipment can be seen on the Aqua GM, Zaku Flipper, etc.
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** Keep in mind too that mobile suits were a new technology at the start of the war which means there was lots of room to grow. The Zaku II could be a big step up from the Zaku I just be incorporating what pilots told them was important and discarding what they learned wasn't. The Gouf could be better still by focusing on performance over ease of piloting. More tellingly, the Zaku I is not so totally outclassed that a skilled Zaku I pilot couldn't put up a fight against a novice Gundam pilot. In fact, the Gundam's performance, while impressive, was not quantum leaps above the Zaku II. It was better of course, in almost every way. But it's main advantage was the incorporation of compact beam weaponry. Later series introduce far more modbile suit variants, but they appear over a longer time span. They're concurrent projects. And many of them are explicitly built on a previous chassis.

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** Keep in mind too that mobile suits were a new technology at the start of the war which means there was lots of room to grow. The Zaku II could be a big step up from the Zaku I just be by incorporating what pilots told them was important and discarding what they learned wasn't. was not. The Gouf could be better still by focusing on performance over ease of piloting.piloting without needing a break through in technology. Many of Zeons other suits were simply refinements, field modifications, or specializations that probably used a lot of standard parts. More tellingly, the Zaku I is not so totally outclassed that a skilled Zaku I pilot couldn't put up a fight against a novice Gundam pilot. In fact, the Gundam's performance, while impressive, was not quantum leaps above the Zaku II. It was better of course, in almost every way. But it's main advantage was the incorporation of compact beam weaponry. Later series introduce far more modbile mobile suit variants, but they appear over a longer time span. They're concurrent projects. And many of them are explicitly built on a previous chassis.

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** This is also one of the main reasons the Federation won the war: Zeon's production facilities were wasting time and resources trying to come up with the next super-awesome mobile suit that they forgot about mass production. The Federation, on the other hand, mass produces the highly versatile Gundam design in the form of the GM, which leads to a much better utilization of resources. It's basically AwesomeButImpractical vs BoringButPractical in action.[[/folder]]

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** This is also one of the main reasons the Federation won the war: Zeon's production facilities were wasting time and resources trying to come up with the next super-awesome mobile suit that they forgot about mass production. The Federation, on the other hand, mass produces the highly versatile Gundam design in the form of the GM, which leads to a much better utilization of resources. It's basically AwesomeButImpractical vs BoringButPractical in action.action.
** Keep in mind too that mobile suits were a new technology at the start of the war which means there was lots of room to grow. The Zaku II could be a big step up from the Zaku I just be incorporating what pilots told them was important and discarding what they learned wasn't. The Gouf could be better still by focusing on performance over ease of piloting. More tellingly, the Zaku I is not so totally outclassed that a skilled Zaku I pilot couldn't put up a fight against a novice Gundam pilot. In fact, the Gundam's performance, while impressive, was not quantum leaps above the Zaku II. It was better of course, in almost every way. But it's main advantage was the incorporation of compact beam weaponry. Later series introduce far more modbile suit variants, but they appear over a longer time span. They're concurrent projects. And many of them are explicitly built on a previous chassis.
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*** It's pretty clear too that the Federation was entertaining the idea that they didn't need to abide by the Anti-Arctic treaty with Zeon essentially defunct. Unit-2 was, after all, explicitly built as a nuclear delivery platform.

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*** It's pretty clear too that the Federation was entertaining the idea that they didn't need to abide by the Anti-Arctic treaty with Zeon essentially defunct. Unit-2 was, after all, explicitly built as a nuclear delivery platform. Basically, the federation was being cockey.

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A few might disagree, but they can easily be silenced or scapegoated. Plus, promises of power. Military leaders get promised a plush job in the new counterrevolutionary group and all the power that entails, while manufacturers get the promise of lucrative new contracts. [[/folder]]

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A few might disagree, but they can easily be silenced or scapegoated. Plus, promises of power. Military leaders get promised a plush job in the new counterrevolutionary group and all the power that entails, while manufacturers get the promise of lucrative new contracts.
*** It's pretty clear too that the Federation was entertaining the idea that they didn't need to abide by the Anti-Arctic treaty with Zeon essentially defunct. Unit-2 was, after all, explicitly built as a nuclear delivery platform.
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** It's a {{Handwave}} for why they use Mobile Suits to begin with. Just go with it.[[/folder]]

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** It's a {{Handwave}} for why they use Mobile Suits to begin with. Just go with it.it.
** My understanding is that minovsky particles are like exotic particle chaff clouds. They interfere with the entire electromagnetic spectrum. In insanely high densities over very wide areas, even visible light. Although this is rare. An optically guided missile is going to have trouble as it will either be wire guided or guided by a radio datalink. Wire guiding is short ranged in a universe where high velocity projectile cannons and beam guns can do that job better. And radio guidance gets jumbled up like radar as the missile reacher longer range. Infrared has the same problem, hazing out at long range. Which is in fact a problem for IR seeking missiles in the earth's amtosphere.
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** As it has been said it really is a matter of ham handed presentation. Pacifism is a laudible guiding principle, even if the reality of the world doesn't allow it to be exercised in its pure form. The idea that one should strive and be willing to sacrifice to resolve a conflict peacefully is good and very much in line with Gundam's more reasonable themes of being anti-war. The problem is, that while Gundam generally has an anti-war theme, we're mostly here for the big cool shooty robots. So pacifist characters end up coming off as quite frustrating and of place. Not that you cannot have a pacifist in a war setting and have them be both good and heroic. See Hacksaw ridge for instance. As for people pointing out the hypocricy of pacifism. Of course. All ideologies are aspirational. All are imperfect and all have failure states. We do not negotiate with terrorists. Unless those terrorists have the means to lay out enoug hurt. Then the political calculus changes and we do negotiate with terrorists. Pacifism is laudible until you end up with a situation where war is the least evil option. Then it too must step aside until its appointed time comes round again.

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Why is this under seatbelts? And I think reception falls out of this.


* Why is it always G, Wing and Seed that get the {{Hatedom}} and NEVER UC?
** HypeBacklash at American fans who only know about Gundam from Toonami, not that there isn't an equal HypeBacklash [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment Backlash]] at UC fanboys who refuse to accept anything that newer fans [[AssociationFallacy also happen to like]].
** Nostalgia. Although ZZ does get some.
*** 0083 and CCA do have their detractors.
*** Says you. In this troper's opinion, Zeta was a travesty that I can only forgive because of Double Zeta, the rest of UC still rocks.
*** Yeah, nostalgia goggles definitely as many of the problems they list with those anime exist in UC and then some.[[/folder]]

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* Why is it always G, Wing and Seed that get the {{Hatedom}} and NEVER UC?
** HypeBacklash at American fans who only know about Gundam from Toonami, not that there isn't an equal HypeBacklash [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment Backlash]] at UC fanboys who refuse to accept anything that newer fans [[AssociationFallacy also happen to like]].
** Nostalgia. Although ZZ does get some.
*** 0083 and CCA do have their detractors.
*** Says you. In this troper's opinion, Zeta was a travesty that I can only forgive because of Double Zeta, the rest of UC still rocks.
*** Yeah, nostalgia goggles definitely as many of the problems they list with those anime exist in UC and then some.[[/folder]]
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** Possibly for both ease of activation (just pull the scanner down, and it activates), and as a redundancy. Lose the precision cams, and you can easily switch back, rather than being blinded

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*** So one leader with an agenda can apparently convince an entire military to put nuclear warheads on a prototype? And none of the main characters think to question this rather poor decision?[[/folder]]

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*** So one leader with an agenda can apparently convince an entire military to put nuclear warheads on a prototype? And none of the main characters think to question this rather poor decision?[[/folder]]decision?
**** A sufficiently charismatic or influential leader entirely could swing the military and industrial groups enough to manage it.
A few might disagree, but they can easily be silenced or scapegoated. Plus, promises of power. Military leaders get promised a plush job in the new counterrevolutionary group and all the power that entails, while manufacturers get the promise of lucrative new contracts. [[/folder]]

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