History Headscratchers / FightClub

30th Jun '17 9:01:03 PM Scsigs
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** Also, building on that idea, you have people who, in society, only do certain things ''because'' there's a rule/law telling them they can't and they feel it makes them look cool as a result. Teens, and anyone under 21, drink, smoke, take drugs, etc because they don't wanna be social outcasts from the people who look "cool" in the eyes of some as a result of ''them'' doing it, hence the common stereotype of people who peer pressure others saying, "it'll make you look cool." Stuff like that. Some of them do it because they perceive the club as being cool and either wanna start their own chapter of it, or join an existing branch.






*** Oh, Marla definitely exists, bud. If she didn't, then the goons wouldn't have been chasing anyone & the narrator would've been having sex with no one as Tyler.

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*** **** Oh, Marla definitely exists, bud. If she didn't, then the goons wouldn't have been chasing anyone & the narrator would've been having sex with no one as Tyler.






** I ''really'' don't think that that's what happened at all. If it was, we would've gotten a mirror shot of the Narrator revealing it after Tyler disappeared, or the security cam footage showing it. Tyler's appearance is most likely the Narrator projecting negative thoughts on to his perception of Tyler based on what he found out he did, and is applying the looks of stereotypical cult leaders, drug emperors, etc to Tyler's appearance. If you watch any story in a visual medium, or even in a medium you read, with gang leaders or whatever, most to all of the people like Tyler in those stories are shown, or described, to look a certain way. It's just a way to dehumanize Tyler and make him look like the kind of guy we find out he is. Before, his face was shaven, he dressed nice, and had a good haircut. After, we see him with a buzzcut, a 5 o'clock shadow, and an outfit you wouldn't be surprised to see someone like a drug dealer wearing. It's meant to be symbolic of the narrator's personal feelings about Tyler, and since Tyler's a figment of his fractured psyche, it becomes literal, where if he were real, he'd, most likely, look the same as the last scene we saw him in before he comes back. It could also represent his rise to power, since he felt on top of the world and wanted to dress as flamboyantly as possible at that point because his plans were all coming together.









** As mentioned below, it's either time-displaced memories that are running concurrent with the Narrator's current actions, or he's imagining the thing he's not doing at that moment.






** I think what the last guy said is what it actually was. Someone on the Fridge page pointed out that in one of the scenes where the Narrator answers the phone, the sex between Tyler and Marla stops completely, implying that that was all happening in his head before and his attention became entirely focused on the phone call, so his mind stopped the noise so he could hear the other person.




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*** Yeah, but he confessed to the police chief, who wasn't a part of the titular fight clubs, that he was the one who set those buildings to blow up only a few hours, at most, beforehand. The police have a record of his actual identity, even if we never learn what it is (though there's a few names hinted at both in the film and its script), so they'd still be looking for him, since the chief would've likely informed the feds afterwards. At that point, he'd ''have'' to use his position with the fight clubs to go on the lamb or something, possibly with Marla, to escape detection...[[FridgeHorror unless the two cops that tried to cut his nuts off from earlier in the film kill the chief before he can call the feds]].


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** The film's plot embodies the UnreliableNarrator trope, as The Narrator ''thought'' the building was going to blow up, but there's nothing backing up him saying it actually ''was''. During his and Tyler's fight beforehand, we saw him pull out a wire to disarm the bomb in the van, and it disarmed. Whether Tyler actually took over for a hot second to rearm the bomb is anyone's guess, but it seemed to be that, since he also locks the van and breaks the key, which is carried through in all of the subsequent shots showing the van, even by the security cam, before Tyler starts kicking the shit out of him. On top of that, Tyler mentioned that he had a place that they can watch all the carnage from. Considering that he can switch to control his body when the Narrator's asleep, it's entirely possible that Tyler took control for a bit to get them to the building they were in without the Narrator knowing, with him just assuming they were in a higher point in the building, then it leads to what I said about their final conflict above. Also remember the goons that brought Marla to the building. Why in the hell would they step into a building doomed to blow up in less than several minutes and go to an upper floor where they'd have very little chance of survival once the place went up, even if it ''was'' just to drop someone off? Tyler also said that he wanted to become the dominant personality, so why would he endanger/kill the body of the individual he planned to take over completely, especially if it means he'd die too as a result? He's essentially almost The Joker from The Dark Knight, before that movie came out, an agent of chaos without much in the way of an overall plan moving from day-to-day with his plans of destruction. Unlike The Joker, however, he doesn't wanna die, so that seems to be the most likely explanation.
30th Jun '17 7:57:12 PM Scsigs
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**** Oh, Marla definitely exists, bud. If she didn't, then the goons wouldn't have been chasing anyone & the narrator would've been having sex with no one as Tyler.
30th Jun '17 6:59:33 PM Scsigs
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* Why do so many people think Tyler was the hero of the movie? I'm not talking Alternate Character Interpretation or just liking the character (he's a well-written character and Brad Pitt's acting was awesome. Hell, I have the guy's face on a T-shirt!) I'm talking about thinking Palahniuk/Jim Uhls/David Fincher intended for him to be the hero of the story. Even for someone who never read Palahniuk's work (stories about deeply broken characters dealing with life in unhealthy ways) it should be clear, by way of conventional tools of storytelling, that Tyler is the vilain. He almost destroys the protagonist's (Ed Norton's character) life. He's the cause of conflict. The way for the protagonist to be happy and be able to have love in his life is LITERALLY by making Tyler cease to exist! In the end, Ed Norton kills the villain, gets the girl and either lives happily ever after or saves his love interest via heroic sacrifice. By every standard we're used to, "Jack"'s the hero, Tyler's the vilain. The fact that this have scaped so many people's attention is something that will forever baffle me.
** Because Tyler was right about the fact that The Narrator's soft, complacent lifestyle was preventing him from living life to the fullest. However, The Narrator needed to confront and overcome Tyler's immature reaction to consumerist society (destroy it) in order to recognize the mature reaction to society (create something and build a genuine connection to another person) "Our great war is a spirtual war. Our great depression is our lives." Without the villain, there could be no hero.

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* Why do so many people think Tyler was the hero of the movie? I'm not talking Alternate Character Interpretation or just liking the character (he's a well-written character and Brad Pitt's acting was awesome. Hell, I have the guy's face on a T-shirt!) I'm talking about thinking Palahniuk/Jim Uhls/David Fincher intended for him to be the hero of the story. Even for someone who never read Palahniuk's work (stories about deeply broken characters dealing with life in unhealthy ways) it should be clear, by way of conventional tools of storytelling, that Tyler is the vilain.villain. He almost destroys the protagonist's (Ed Norton's character) life. He's the cause of conflict. The way for the protagonist to be happy and be able to have love in his life is LITERALLY by making Tyler cease to exist! In the end, Ed Norton kills the villain, gets the girl and either lives happily ever after or saves his love interest via heroic sacrifice. By every standard we're used to, "Jack"'s the hero, Tyler's the vilain. villain. The fact that this have scaped escaped so many people's attention is something that will forever baffle me.
** Because Tyler was right about the fact that The Narrator's soft, complacent lifestyle was preventing him from living life to the fullest. However, The Narrator needed to confront and overcome Tyler's immature reaction to consumerist society (destroy it) in order to recognize the mature reaction to society (create something and build a genuine connection to another person) "Our great war is a spirtual spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives." Without the villain, there could be no hero.



** After the club got started up, people wouldn't necessarily have known about the origins, considering all the legends surrounding it. The people who were there the first couple of weeks would have either left when things got more serious than a guy beating himself up in a parking lot or joined in. Since the Narrator, Tyler, and anyone who would have stayed were that messed up, all it took was one guy saying "hey, fight me?" (or, in this case "can I have a go next?" which is vague enough that it wouldn't have tipped off the Natrrator that something was weird).

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** After the club got started up, people wouldn't necessarily have known about the origins, considering all the legends surrounding it. The people who were there the first couple of weeks would have either left when things got more serious than a guy beating himself up in a parking lot or joined in. Since the Narrator, Tyler, and anyone who would have stayed were that messed up, all it took was one guy saying "hey, fight me?" (or, in this case "can I have a go next?" which is vague enough that it wouldn't have tipped off the Natrrator Narrator that something was weird).



*** The ending of the book could also be interpreted as when he shot himself, he believed that he had died. When he was talking to the doctor, he says "Yeah, Well, Whatever. You can't teach god anything", implying that he believes he's in heaven. This would erradicate Tyler.

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*** The ending of the book could also be interpreted as when he shot himself, he believed that he had died. When he was talking to the doctor, he says "Yeah, Well, Whatever. You can't teach god anything", implying that he believes he's in heaven. This would erradicate eradicate Tyler.



** Personally, I have the theory that, after the Narrator passed out after getting his shit kicked in by Tyler, Tyler took control and moved his body to where he eventually wakes up a bit later. In that time, he could've easily replaced the bullets in the clip with blanks, since the Narrator showed he just didn't give two shits anymore about who lived or died after realizing the horror that is his multiple personality disorder and what it wrought on the world. Question would then be where'd he get the blanks, but Tyler has enough connections to blow up buildings with nitroglycerin, so he probably made a call. This might not entirely work, since if Tyler knew that the gun was only loaded with blanks, he wouldn't have fallen for the deception. However, he could've also removed the bullets from the clip, which would most likely leave one bullet left over, if anyone knows anything about guns you know this is very possible, and in the heat of the moment could've forgotten it was empty and thought the Narrator had killed himself. If it was blanks, that could explain the wound. If it was psychosomatic, that could explain most everything.

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** Personally, I have the theory that, after the Narrator passed out after getting his shit kicked in by Tyler, Tyler took control and moved his body to where he eventually wakes up a bit later. In that time, he could've easily replaced the bullets in the clip with blanks, since the Narrator showed he just didn't give two shits anymore about who lived or died after realizing the horror that is his multiple personality disorder and what it wrought on the world. Question would then be where'd he get the blanks, but Tyler has enough connections to blow up buildings with nitroglycerin, so he probably made a call. This might not entirely work, since if Tyler knew that the gun was only loaded with blanks, he wouldn't have fallen for the deception. However, he could've also removed the bullets from the clip, which would most likely leave one bullet left over, if anyone knows anything about guns you know this is very possible, and in the heat of the moment could've forgotten it was empty and thought the Narrator had killed himself. If it was blanks, that could explain the wound. If it was psychosomatic, that could explain most everything.
everything in the scene.



* Why did so many people miss the point of this movie, going so far as to create their own Fight Clubs modelled after Tyler's? I'm well aware that there's a fine line between condemning violence and glamorizing it, but I thought ''Fight Club'' did a pretty good job at showing that it was the insane response of broken individuals.

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* Why did so many people miss the point of this movie, going so far as to create their own Fight Clubs modelled modeled after Tyler's? I'm well aware that there's a fine line between condemning violence and glamorizing it, but I thought ''Fight Club'' did a pretty good job at showing that it was the insane response of broken individuals.



*** Disagreed. Fight injuries are not that scary once you've been through one - the fear of e.g. breaking a bone is worse than the actual thing (speaking from personal experience here). Plus, injuries inevitably happen in regular martial arts, and non-crazy people train those, depending onf your definition of "crazy". Also, adrenaline is a very powerful painkiller. On top of that, if there were non-fictional Fight Clubs, people would probably tap out much earlier, so things would not be as messy as in the movie.
** Two reasons. First: plain and simple, MisaimedFandom. Second: the movie shows screwed up people and actions, but much of the protagonist's complaining about life, the society etc. does ring true. And easy escapism is tempting - especially wrapped in something badass and glamorous like a Fight Club. Plus, the initial Fight Clubs did no actual harm, it was when Tyler wanted to "change things" with Project Mayhem that everything spiralled out of control (and, might I add, it was only then that the protagonist tried to stop him).
*** Also, it should be taken into account that it's one thing to watch the movie when you've already read Palahniuk's work and are aware that all his characters are unhealthy, deeply broken individuals, who are not supposed to be role models for anyone, in any context, and who, a lot of times, aren't even very likeable. It's another thing to be young and impressionable and watch a movie where Brad Pitt is kind of Crazy Awesome, and makes some very legitimate complaints about contemporary society.

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*** Disagreed. Fight injuries are not that scary once you've been through one - the fear of e.g. breaking a bone is worse than the actual thing (speaking from personal experience here). Plus, injuries inevitably happen in regular martial arts, and non-crazy people train for those, depending onf on your definition of "crazy". Also, adrenaline is a very powerful painkiller. On top of that, if there were non-fictional Fight Clubs, people would probably tap out much earlier, so things would not be as messy as in the movie.
** Two reasons. First: plain and simple, MisaimedFandom. Second: the movie shows screwed up people and actions, but much of the protagonist's complaining about life, the society etc. does ring true. And easy escapism is tempting - especially wrapped in something badass and glamorous like a Fight Club. Plus, the initial Fight Clubs did no actual harm, it was when Tyler wanted to "change things" with Project Mayhem that everything spiralled spiraled out of control (and, might I add, it was only then that the protagonist tried to stop him).
*** Also, it should be taken into account that it's one thing to watch the movie when you've already read Palahniuk's work and are aware that all his characters are unhealthy, deeply broken individuals, who are not supposed to be role models for anyone, in any context, and who, a lot of times, aren't even very likeable.likable. It's another thing to be young and impressionable and watch a movie where Brad Pitt is kind of Crazy Awesome, and makes some very legitimate complaints about contemporary society.



* Remember that scene with Mafia trying to claim the fight club's cellar? It has always bugged me: what does the club intend to do with it. Picture this: civilisation falls (Tyler's vision), state falls, and who has the guns and the men, and no moral restrictions like the government to use them? Mob. In other words, Tyler's anarchoprimitivist utopia would last a week, and then turn into neo-feudalism with mob bosses at the top. Tyler either had a plan and necessary manpower to fight them, or was damned shortsighted.

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* Remember that scene with Mafia trying to claim the fight club's cellar? It has always bugged me: what does the club intend to do with it. Picture this: civilisation civilization falls (Tyler's vision), state falls, and who has the guns and the men, and no moral restrictions like the government to use them? Mob. In other words, Tyler's anarchoprimitivist anarcho-primitivist utopia would last a week, and then turn into neo-feudalism with mob bosses at the top. Tyler either had a plan and necessary manpower to fight them, or was damned shortsighted.



** This troper has always seen those seens as nothing more than RuleOfFunny and that any scene with Tyler and the narrator was really just "Jack" imagining it. For instace, if he and Tyler were drinking, then it was really just "Jack" sitting alone drinking and having a conversation in his mind.

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** This troper has always seen those seens scenes as nothing more than RuleOfFunny and that any scene with Tyler and the narrator was really just "Jack" imagining it. For instace, instance, if he and Tyler were drinking, then it was really just "Jack" sitting alone drinking and having a conversation in his mind.



** Actually if you watch his feet they flail in a way that could be him pushing himselfalong the floor or at least thats how I always assumed it happened.

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** Actually if you watch his feet they flail in a way that could be him pushing himselfalong himself along the floor or at least thats how I always assumed it happened.



* Another minor detail but something to be adressed. In the whole entire movie, the narrator's name isn't mentioned.

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* Another minor detail but something to be adressed.addressed. In the whole entire movie, the narrator's name isn't mentioned.



*** This is a deliberate method that writers sometimes use to draw attention away from the main character's personality to focus on anothers; and in this case there's reason to since the Narrator is constantly focusing on his invention of Tyler. It also makes the character too identifiable when it's simpler to shrowd him in mystery so his purpose could be used as a metaphor. [[NoNameGiven This trope]] explains in more detail.

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*** This is a deliberate method that writers sometimes use to draw attention away from the main character's personality to focus on anothers; another's; and in this case there's reason to since the Narrator is constantly focusing on his invention of Tyler. It also makes the character too identifiable when it's simpler to shrowd shroud him in mystery so his purpose could be used as a metaphor. [[NoNameGiven This trope]] explains in more detail.



* One thing I've never understood: On the flight where Tyler is introduced, he talks about the emergency oxygen masks on airliners. His claim is that they pipe pure oxygen to the passengers to sedate them and make them docile, so they "accept their fate." Even if this was true (it isn't-they don't deliver pure O2), why is this presented as something sinister? If the plane truly is spiralling to its doom, it seems like calming the passengers in their last moments would be admirable.

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* One thing I've never understood: On the flight where Tyler is introduced, he talks about the emergency oxygen masks on airliners. His claim is that they pipe pure oxygen to the passengers to sedate them and make them docile, so they "accept their fate." Even if this was true (it isn't-they don't deliver pure O2), why is this presented as something sinister? If the plane truly is spiralling spiraling to its doom, it seems like calming the passengers in their last moments would be admirable.



** It's entirely possible that what we're seeing Jack doing is in his head, while Tyler is actually doing things in the physical world. Tyler fucks Marla, while Jack imagines himself doing situps, for example.

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** It's entirely possible that what we're seeing Jack doing is in his head, while Tyler is actually doing things in the physical world. Tyler fucks Marla, while Jack imagines himself doing situps, sit-ups, for example.
30th Jun '17 6:45:52 PM Scsigs
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* I know part of it was dramatic licence, but really, how exactly does the protagonist survive shooting himself in the head?

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* I know part of it was dramatic licence, license, but really, how exactly does the protagonist survive shooting himself in the head?



*** This troper always thought that Tyler didn't really die...instead, the narrator and Tyler stopped being seperate, and merged together. After he gets shot, the narrator stops panicking, starts being a lot more assertive, and bosses around the project mayhem guys like he's used to it. He also stops worrying about the bombs in the buildings and calmly watches them exploding. The personality disorder the Narrator has has been known to be cured by a traumatic event, and I'd say a gunshot wound to the face qualifies.
*** No. What happened was- the Narrator, and Tyler, thought they were honestly, ''truely'' going to die the moment he pulled the trigger of the gun. Since Tyler is nothing more then a delusion, a being who only exists in the Narrator's mind, believing he was about to be killed inflicted a case of YourMindMakesItReal. But since the bullet was non-fatal, the Narrator survived, being the "core" personality. The change afterward, stopping panicking, calmly reacting to things, is just because the Narrator finally matured and was able to be responsible, as shown by his ability to be tender and gentle with Marla.

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*** This troper always thought that Tyler didn't really die...instead, the narrator and Tyler stopped being seperate, separate, and merged together. After he gets shot, the narrator stops panicking, starts being a lot more assertive, and bosses around the project mayhem guys like he's used to it. He also stops worrying about the bombs in the buildings and calmly watches them exploding. The personality disorder the Narrator has has been known to be cured by a traumatic event, and I'd say a gunshot wound to the face qualifies.
*** No. What happened was- the Narrator, and Tyler, thought they were honestly, ''truely'' ''truly'' going to die the moment he pulled the trigger of the gun. Since Tyler is nothing more then a delusion, a being who only exists in the Narrator's mind, believing he was about to be killed inflicted a case of YourMindMakesItReal. But since the bullet was non-fatal, the Narrator survived, being the "core" personality. The change afterward, stopping panicking, calmly reacting to things, is just because the Narrator finally matured and was able to be responsible, as shown by his ability to be tender and gentle with Marla.




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** Personally, I have the theory that, after the Narrator passed out after getting his shit kicked in by Tyler, Tyler took control and moved his body to where he eventually wakes up a bit later. In that time, he could've easily replaced the bullets in the clip with blanks, since the Narrator showed he just didn't give two shits anymore about who lived or died after realizing the horror that is his multiple personality disorder and what it wrought on the world. Question would then be where'd he get the blanks, but Tyler has enough connections to blow up buildings with nitroglycerin, so he probably made a call. This might not entirely work, since if Tyler knew that the gun was only loaded with blanks, he wouldn't have fallen for the deception. However, he could've also removed the bullets from the clip, which would most likely leave one bullet left over, if anyone knows anything about guns you know this is very possible, and in the heat of the moment could've forgotten it was empty and thought the Narrator had killed himself. If it was blanks, that could explain the wound. If it was psychosomatic, that could explain most everything.
25th Jun '17 9:49:09 AM nombretomado
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Rules 1 and 2 of FightClub are averted for this page, so Unmarked Spoiler Warning.

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Rules 1 and 2 of FightClub ''Film/FightClub'' are averted for this page, so Unmarked Spoiler Warning.
6th Dec '16 5:46:33 AM AFP
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*** For one thing, piping pure O2 to the passengers wouldn't calm them, it'd amp them up. If you wanted to calm them down, you'd be better off letting them go into hypoxia. One of the symptoms of oxygen deprivation is lethargy, as oxygen is necessary for most of the body's functions. Rule of thumb for aviators: If everything seems just fine and nothing is worrying you at all, check your oxygen.
29th Nov '16 4:50:23 PM ThePest179
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** It's reverse psychology. Tell them not to talk about it so that it's the ''only thing'' they'll talk about.
17th Oct '16 12:32:54 PM quadcow
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* At the very beginning of the movie, the Narrator voiceovers about how the building he and Tyler in is about to collapse. But in the end ... it doesn't. What gives?
17th Oct '16 10:22:32 AM quadcow
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*** I'd say that was a pretty irresponsible doctor. Even if you think a patient's being a hypochondriac, you still have a professional responsibility to treat them thoughtfully and sensitively. The doctor acted exasperated, shot off a cookie-cutter solution apparently without examining potential causes, and basically just tried to tell the Narrator his subjective problems weren't real. Now, this may well be part of the point, but a good doctor would probably have found out enough about the Narrator to advise he seek mental health care, barring dishonest answers about life stressors and emotional wellbeing.
7th Aug '16 4:25:52 AM LadyJaneGrey
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* Okay, if members aren't allowed to talk about the Fight Club (as in rules 1 and 2) [[FridgeLogic how the hell do they recruit new members]]?
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