History Headscratchers / DirgeofCerberus

*** From most of the [=FF7=] world's perspective, the events are a pretty close match for ''Film/IndependenceDay'': same amount of collateral destruction by the WEAPON's, roughly the same time frame and the same level of mobilized military response. So the question's whether the events in that movie would be called a "war" by future history books. I'd imagine so, and by the same logic, I'd see "Jenova War" working too. As for the name, it's either that or the "Sephiroth War" and Shinra would probably ''much'' rather blame the prehistoric alien parasite than their own poster-boy turned genocidal monster by said parasite (on another note, I practically cheered at the phrase "Jenova War", since it at least takes some of the Compilation's in-universe focus off the increasingly VillainSue'ish Sephiroth).

** TheDarkId's LetsPlay of this game has Vincent pretty much start reviling her at the end, even having Cid [[spoiler:bomb the cave entrance]]. Other than that, probably because LoveMakesYouCrazy only in this case replace "crazy" with "stupid/naive/any other word pertaining to lack of intelligence or common sense".

** This kind of applies to all of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', really. A bit of a cultural side-effect of being released so closely to ''Evangelion'', similar to how [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII FF8]]'s plot was somewhat obviously touched by the popularity of ''Film/{{Titanic 1997}}''. That said, most of [=FF7=]'s plot will make sense if read closely, the main title and CrisisCore are pretty easy to understand, while the parts of ''Evangelion'' you're talking about (instrumentality and everything onwards) is [[GainaxEnding largely guesswork on what the creators were getting at]].

* The biggest question I think is who the hell funded Reeve so he could do all this stuff with the WRO? Vincent confronts Reeve about it in a cutscene and Reeve gives him the verbal equivalent of a shrug, saying he doesn't know and doesn't care as long as they keep writing the checks. But he thinks it may be someone who feels they owe a big debt to the planet. So who?! There's a number of people who probably feel they owe a debt to the planet, although most of them are not nearly rich enough to fund this whole expensive operation. For those who missed this, it's optional dialogue you can get from repeatedly talking to Reeve aboard the airship. From MartinFF7's Game Script guide:

"Vincent: So, no costume today?
Reeve: [laughs] Headquarters was pretty much destroyed by the
Deepground forces. But I was able to salvage a few things.
[A Cait Sith approaches them]
Cait Sith: Number 6, ready for action!
[Talking to Reeve again, some more optional dialogue]
Vincent: Tell me, Reeve. Who's backing your operation?
Cait Sith: Oh, that.
[Reeve laughs a bit]
Reeve: Actually, I'm not sure. I have only met with a representative.
Reeve: However, the WRO is crucial for this planet's survival.
Reeve: I'm not concerned with the reasons this person has for helping us, as
long as he continues writing the checks. Though, I have a feeling it
is probably someone who believes he is in debt to the planet."

* The biggest question I think is who the hell funded Reeve so he could do all this stuff with the WRO? Vincent confronts Reeve about it in a cutscene and Reeve gives him the verbal equivalent of a shrug, saying he doesn't know and doesn't care as long as they keep writing the checks. But he thinks it may be someone who feels they owe a big debt to the planet. So who?! There's a number of people who probably feel they owe a debt to the planet, although most of them are not nearly rich enough to fund this whole expensive operation.

** This kind of applies to all of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', really. A bit of a cultural side-effect of being released so closely to ''Evangelion'', similar to how [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII FF8]]'s plot was somewhat obviously touched by the popularity of ''Film/{{Titanic}}''. That said, most of [=FF7=]'s plot will make sense if read closely, the main title and CrisisCore are pretty easy to understand, while the parts of ''Evangelion'' you're talking about (instrumentality and everything onwards) is [[GainaxEnding largely guesswork on what the creators were getting at]].

* Alright, lemme see if I got this. Hojo, while in his holographic form, says to Vincent that he was shocked when he saw him turn into Chaos, meaning that this hologram was created after the fight on the Sister Ray. Which means that Hojo injected himself with Jenovah cells, turned into two hideous monstrosities, was beaten up by the main characters including Chaos, seemingly died, laid there while the cast went to the Northen Crater or helped evacuate Midgar, turned back into a human, and struggled to the computer to upload his mind to the network and ''then'' finally died as his body disappeared in a lightning strike explosion. Honestly, Square? Honestly?

* I know that Vincent's whole character trait is mournfully pining for a woman he loved, but honestly, what could he possibly still see in Lucrecia after all the things she did? This game makes it perfectly clear that she knowingly consented to experimenting on her own child, which is a MoralEventHorizon right there. But to Vincent personally, she had sort of more-than-just-professional relationship with him (the picnic scene was pretty flirty) until she pushed him away because of her guilt, went on the rebound with Hojo, brought him back to life by turning him into an uncontrollable beast that needed a materia in his chest to stay sane, and then just ... left him there in his capsule while she vanished. And yet the game clads her in glowing white and tries to make her sympathetic and almost Madonna-like and ''Hojo'' is the only one who even remotely tries to call her out on her actions.

**** The amount of Lucretia hate is absolutely stunning. Can I quote Vincent? I think I'll quote Vincent. "You are the reason I survived." And...people think that procedure was immoral? In modern medicine, unless you have a Do Not Resuscitate order, your consent to a life-saving procedure is considered to be implied. As far as Sephiroth goes, if that experiment was going to be harmful, she probably would have just miscarried. Which, while tragic, you can't really hold the mother accountable for it, because it's not as thought she has some sort of instinctive knowledge of how to prevent one.
*** [[note]]This post was made by Lee.[[/note]] Agreed with the above post, regarding Vincent. It's never implied that he's stupid or blinded by love; he's just wise enough to look at her motives and know that she didn't want to hurt him.[[note]]Also note that we only get glimpses of her in the game, compared to what Vincent had. He would know her better than we do; after all, he asked for her hand in marriage.[[/note]]Being able to understand the feelings of others is a sign of being mature. Holding a thirty year grudge against someone for breaking up with you and trying to save your life is anything but that.

*** [[note]]This post was made by Lee.[[/note]] It's been a while since I've commented on this,so I've gone back to my older posts and cleaned some things up to make them more clear (I hope that's okay). I also added a note to them so they aren't mistaken for being by different users. And on another note, I've actually put a bit more thought into this and I think I understand Vincent and Lucrecia a bit better. This isn't really a statement of how people should view them, but my own thoughts on them and how I look at their relationship and the situation they're in. Throughout the game old wounds are suddenly reopened and old feelings and memories resurface everywhere. I don't think Vincent is still in love with Lucrecia in the same way he used to be; it's more like a fondness for her and what they once shared. Things won't ever be the same between them, but they still have a deep connection because of everything they've been through-- there's a history there that just doesn't go away. There's also a sadness that they'll always carry inside them for everything they've lost and everything that they could have gained at one point. They have a complicated relationship that I don't think we can truly understand, but we can definitely find similarities to it in our own lives. Sometimes you go through emotional and life changing events with someone that you care about and, regardless of what they do, you just can't make that care go away. Some situations are more complicated than others, and sometimes no one involved ever really moves on completely.
* I just wanted to add that no, I also don't think Lucrecia went beyond the MoralEventHorizon. I personally didn't see a problem with her experimenting on her unborn child, and let me explain. From what Shinra was able to gather about the Ancients they knew that they were human and that they were good for the planet. Aside from the whole conquest of the New World thing, they were trying to recreate an "angel" so to speak. Although, I would hope that they would have more sense than using some random specimen they found without sufficient study. Especially when it.. well, it looked like everything gone wrong. But Professor Gast is to blame for that, being that he was the best scientist at the time and the one to proclaim that Jenova was an ancient. If he said the thing was a Cetra who was to tell him that he was wrong? Sephiroth did not have a choice in his fetal development, and while it turned out for the worst, it's possible that even without experimentation he could have been born with some natural birth defects or what have you. That he's not all human isn't that bad, neither was his not having a choice. What was bad was how Shinra managed the situation as a whole. Seriously, he didn't go mad for no reason or just because "Mommy made me do it". I don't suspect Sephiroth had a normal lifestyle, from childhood and into adulthood. If Shinra had managed to do that bit right the Nibelheim Incident would not have been a reality.
** It's the same thing for Shelke. In the Online Mode, she very gleefully [[spoiler: tells the dying player character that everything they had been working for was a lie, and that Deepground had implanted false memories ''of a younger sister that needed to be found/rescued'' into his/her head to get him/her to do their bidding. And she shows no remorse or pain over the fact that she pretty much implanted her ''own'' backstory, pretty much mocking everything Shalua's been going through, into someone else's head to further the goals of a corrupt organization]]. She's never called out on this, and the only time anyone in [=DoC=] has anything bad to say about her is when Yuffie very justifiably slaps her for calling Shalua a fool for sacrificing herself to save her. This could be justified by saying that the Online Mode came out ''after'' [=DoC=] and happened before she had her HeelFaceTurn, but still.

** I interpreted it this way: Shalua's sacrifice is the only way she could make up for what she feels was an enormous failure in her life. She made countless sacrifices (as enumerated by Reeve), and they still weren't enough to get her little sister back. When she finally does get Shelke back, she's a TykeBomb EmotionlessGirl who wants to kill her. In the same way that both Vincent and Lucrecia sacrificed themselves for what they believed was the greater good of their loved ones, Shalua probably wouldn't have gotten on the elevator or allowed Shelke to use the barrier materia because Shalua feels that she needs to make up for everything that's happened to Shelke by sacrificing herself. Admittedly, [[IdiotBall Shalua could have made her point in different ways]], but the way it was done reinforces the themes of sacrifice, redemption, and emotional changes in the story.