History Headscratchers / CodeGeass

26th Apr '11 3:26:30 PM xVanitas
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* [[Headscratchers/CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne Miscellaneous Code Geass JBMs, Page 1]]
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* [[Headscratchers/CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne Miscellaneous Code Geass JBMs, Headscratchers, Page 1]]
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26th Apr '11 2:37:51 PM xVanitas
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* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassCodeAndGeassMechanics Code and Geass Mechanics]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassAndAlternateHistory Code Geass and Alternate History]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne Miscellaneous Code Geass JBMs, Page 1]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassMiscellaneousTwo Miscellaneous Code Geass JBMs, Page 2]]

to:

* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassCodeAndGeassMechanics [[Headscratchers/CodeGeassCodeAndGeassMechanics Code and Geass Mechanics]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassAndAlternateHistory [[Headscratchers/CodeGeassAndAlternateHistory Code Geass and Alternate History]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne [[Headscratchers/CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne Miscellaneous Code Geass JBMs, Page 1]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassMiscellaneousTwo [[Headscratchers/CodeGeassMiscellaneousTwo Miscellaneous Code Geass JBMs, Page 2]]
1st Mar '11 11:17:25 AM Meeble
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1st Mar '11 11:16:04 AM Meeble
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[[WMG:Code and Geass mechanics]]
* Why exactly did Geassing [[spoiler:the Human Consciousness]] cause [[spoiler:Charles and Marianne]] to die?
** I always took that as they were sacrificed to make the world have a tomorrow.
** They had just tried to kill said thing. I imagine it was none to pleased about that when it was given the chance to express its opinion.
** Eyes are the windows to the soul. Technically speaking, the human consciousness was man's collective soul (hooray for cheap band references!). So when Lelouch geasses a person through their vision, he's actually geassing their soul. So by the transitive property, if there is a soul by itself it can be geassed without eye contact.
*** That doesn't really address the question, though. Lelouch just asked them to not let time stop, and through whatever reasoning the World of C decided Charles and Marianne had to go.
*** The question had already been answered, I just explained how it could be geassed before anyone tries to ask that question.
*** And you completely ignored Charles and Marianne.
*** From what I can tell, the two had thrown their will into the sword of Akashic. Once the sword was destroyed, so was Lelouch's parents.
** Maybe it was just the only way to could actually stop the process they started?
** Is this good enough for a physical explanation? Charles and marianne's counsciousness are wiped out and their physical body have a stroke or something(leaving them brain-dead), then Lelouch dumped them out of some window or into the sea off-screen.
* If a contact lens is enough to contain the Geass's power while it's stuck in Main/ModeLock, then would contact lenses also be sufficient protection against it for a target? If not, what makes Lelouch's special?
** It's not a normal contact lens. CC had it made specially. We don't know the details, and she pretty much says outright that eventually it won't be capable of stopping it.
*** Actually, yes. Lelouch says so in the fifth or so episode of the first season that his Geass seems to be based on light (which is why he could Geass himself with a mirror). He was confused when CC handed him the contact lens because he knew that a normal colored one would be enough to stop his Geass. What CC's special lens do? We do not yet know.
*** Unless this troper is mistaken, colored contact lenses only color the irises. Since the light enters through the pupil, you would have to get specially made lenses. On top of that, the only color that they would be (if any; they might be clear) would be Lelouch's eye color.
*** I assume at least one of its special functions is to hide the glowing red shooting bird light in his freaking eye! It's obviously visible as Lelouch sees other users' geass in their eyes. XD This question does make me wonder how he hides the OTHER eye when they both light up...?
*** A second contact lens.
*** Actually, Lelouch has already gained control of his Geass at that time.
*** He has fully awakened it, but it's still in ModeLock. He just uses two lenses now - see his gesture before using it, that's when he removes them.
*** I always understood that the other characters can't SEE the way the eye changes when somebody uses Geass. Nobody ever says, "What the heck is wrong with your eye?!" or anything to that effect. I assumed it was just an effect the animators chose to show so we knew when a character was using Geass.
*** No, the characters notice Geass eyes. See Lelouch's reaction to Mao when Mao removes his visor for a second.
* What would have happened if Lelouch had ordered Mao to "pay no attention to the voices you hear from your Geass"?
** Best guess? He'd still be aware of the voices but they would be like white noise in the back of his head. Kind of like when you are reading something while the television is on. You can still hear it, and at times it is distracting depending on how loud it is, but for the most part you don't really notice it because your attention is focused elsewhere.
*** Mao's visor [[strike:probably]] does negate Lelouch's Geass as shown in episode 14. Lelouch tries to Geass Mao the moment Mao shows him the Geass eyes but Mao lifts the visor again before the command can be given.
*** Really, what I'm trying to get at is: would it essentially have solved Mao's problem and rendered Lelouch's worst enemy harmless (aside from the residual crazy)? We've seen in ''R2'' that the effect of one Geass can "seal" another if used in the correct way.
*** Geass has a limited duration. It would only delay the confrontation, and when Mao returned, even more crazy than ever, the Geass wouldn't work again. As it was he kinda blew it and used it on a trivial command, but silencing Mao at least meant he wouldn't be able to manipulate anyone, and he could be hunted down.
*** Geass has a limited duration? Since when? None of the commands Lelouch has given have ever worn off unless they were specifically limited. For example, his 'Live!' command to Suzaku is still working fine.
*** Since always. Remember way back in the early days of the series he uses the Geass on a student to tell her to make a mark on a wall every day so he can figure out how long it lasts. In episode 5 of R2 you see him walk past that wall, and the last mark is half complete. Which means it has run out. At most, a Geass lasts about a year.
*** The problem here is that student is no longer at the school. She might have been interrupted by the Black Rebellion in the application of the mark. By bullets. Or she just might have left.
*** Actually, I'm almost positive that the anime hinted at that being the reason the marks even stopped, as the whole point of the student's existence is to show the viewer that Geass DOESN'T have a limited duration.
*** Also, Lelouch's order for Suzaku to continue living is still in effect, as seen in episode 7 of R2, and it has been more than a year since it has been issued.
*** According to an official newsletter, the girl returned to Britannia along with the rest of the school, but at a certain time each day attempts to return to Ashford to mark the wall. Her parents and doctors believe she is sleepwalking, presumably because the Geass comes into effect during the night in Britannia.
*** As well, and this troper may very well be mistaken, but I think that her pattern was to alternate one vertical and one horizontal line, that half-mark being between an odd (or maybe even) day since the start.
* Outside of the moral concerns, I have some problems with Lelouch being able to use his geass to make people slaves [[spoiler: and to a lesser extent what he did to Schneizel]]. Given that the power is one use only for him, to give a command like that is almost like the proverbial "wishing for unlimited wishes" concept- you would think it is not an option. I'd expect, that for the command to work, it would render whoever he does that to incapable of anyting, even using the bathroom or breathing without Lelouch's command. [[spoiler: Ordering Schneizel to obey Zero]] makes a bit more sense, since the phrasing implies that the command makes the person have enormous good will towards Lelouch and thus they can still think independently while being ultra-loyal. At best, maybe this is what is supposed to have happened with the command for people to be Lelouch's slaves.
** Actually, it looks like [[spoiler: ordering Schneizel to obey Zero]] was all part of the plan. That way, he ensures that [[spoiler: Schneizel will continue to serve the new order after his [[HeroicSacrifice Heroic Sacrifice]].]]
** In any case, despite it being an obvious thing to try, the first time we see LeLouch successfully Geassing people to "Become my slave!" is after his Geass reaches its full, binocular potential in R2 episode 21, at which point it may have transcended any or all of its former limitations.
*** Before that, in episode 20, he geassed Britannian soldiers to "do as I please", and that was with a one-eye Geass.
*** I always assumed Lelouch could always have done the "obey my orders" command but chose not to for ethical reasons.
** Well, the other way it backfires is what if he needs them in capacities other than mindless servants? This is probably why he didn't do that before episode 20; it would be a lot harder to keep the secret of Geass if a bunch of important people just started, say, always turning to Lelouch before answering a question.
* A stupid question but oh, well... If an individual possessing the Code has his or her name written in a Death Note, will they die? What happens to their Code, then?
** We all found out that Charles was still "killed" by God even though he stole V.V.'s code, so I wouldn't call it a TRUE immortality.
*** That's rather flawed logic. It is immortality in every conventional sense of the word. God, being omnipotent, can remove the Code because it is the one who, presumably, created the Code. Plus, Charles wasn't just killed, he was erased from existence.
** Unstoppable Force, Immovable Object and all that.
*** My guess is that they would have the heart attack, or whatever, then regenerate from the damage.
** Alternately, NightmareFuel, the code prevents their dying but the note commands them to die, as a result they spend the rest of eternity in a constant half living half dead state, dying over and over again without sufficient time to do anything to free themselves from said state.
*** That is interesting. They'd die every 40 seconds from [[HollywoodHeartAttack painful heart attacks]]...
*** Death Notes have a maximum age limit, so eventually the Code bearer wouldn't be affected anymore.
*** Regardless, the Death Note dismisses impossible commands, such as telling a prisoner in Japan to jump off the Eiffel Tower in the next 40 seconds. The prisoner is physically unable to die that way by any stretch of the imagination. While the prisoner defaults to a heart attack, since a heart attack won't kill a Code user, the default will be treated as impossible. The Death Note will only work if it details a plausible situation in which they would lose the Code.
*** If Light ever heard about a "code" and "immortality," he'd probably figure out a way to make himself immortal.
*** So basically put all he would have to do would be to write "X dies after giving me the immortality code"?
** The person who has the code would die. Rember, Shinigami are gods, and gods have been shown to be able to kill people with codes.
*** The person would die only if their name was written by a Shinigami then. If a regular person wrote down the name it wouldn't pan out quite as well.
*** Shinigami couldnt kill a Code user, it will "make them stop living" but then they would come back to life, the only reason Charles and Marianne died is because they were written out of existence.
*** Which brings up the question of how many years a Shinigami would get for death noting a code user.
*** However many years that person had before trasnferring their code and dying. That or they'd get the Abbadon treatment ''a la'' {{Torchwood}} and die of and overdose.
* Didn't Lelouch ever think of trying to get around the 'one Geass per person' restriction by giving a command like "obey all future orders given to you by Lelouch Lamperouge or Zero"?
** [[spoiler:Yes. The reason he didn't do at first is most likely that he thought that would have been just a bit too evil.]]
*** Seems very unlikely for Lelouch. It is more plausible that he [[spoiler: was not able to do this until his Geass fully activated]]
*** It only seems unlikely later in the series. Early on, Lelouch is a hero and he only uses the Geass on evil people and if the order won't harm the person (make a mark on this wall everyday). Later he starts to become more evil and dishes out plenty of "Become My Slave!" Geasses.
*** Keep in mind that Lelouch has respect for free will. He explicitly makes a point of not geassing people into becoming his allies, but rather trying to convince them by conventional means. So he uses Geass either to get a one-time favor or get rid of someone. As for full potential, see above about R2 episode 20, which was before that.
** Using his geass in this way would draw attention. Imagine what would happen if he had to interact with the person incognito (through chance of course). If he asked them to get him a coffee it would go off and they would zombie-fetch it for him.
* How much intelligence does Schneizel retain? Is he still a full-fledged ChessMaster who just think his priority is to serve anyone he recognizes as Zero, or just a mindless puppet waiting to obey whatever commands he is give? If he is still intelligent, then wouldn't he at some point question why he is so loyal? Would he still have his memories and be able to put two and two together? "Hmm...I know Zero has this geass thing that can brainwash people. I once was against him. Now I feel compelled to obey Zero. Hmmmm..."
** Think about Suzaku. He also had a permanent Geass on him, but retained his free will in every situation he was ''not'' facing death. I assume it works the same with Schneizel. He is still as intelligent as before, but it's impossible for him to even ''think'' about going against Zero.
** Even if he were to figure out that he's under Geass, what difference would it make? Knowing that he's under Geass would not cancel the Geass, so he'd still be compelled to obey Zero.
*** How would he even find out he's been Geassed? Lelouch can't tell him due to lacking a body, same goes for Diethard, Suzaku won't tell him because if he does he risks getting Schneizel as an enemy and he can't fight Schneizel now the Lelouch is gone. The only person left to tell him is Kanon and we don't know what happened to him.
** Would it be possible for him to defeat the command with rational arguments? "I knew Lelouch was Zero. Now Lelouch is dead, killed by ''this'' Zero. Ergo, he's not the real Zero and I don't have to obey him." Or more simply yet, he can put on a Zero costume himself...
*** But it's obviously Lelouch's intention for him to serve Zero. If he rationalized Lelouch as being the only Zero, he'd still have to serve Lelouch, no? And "serving" Lelouch would mean doing what he wants, which would, rationally, be serving the ''new'' Zero.
*** I'd assume that the Geass would prevent him from even thinking about thinking along those lines.
*** Why should it? If a random person, without a costume and without any indication of being Zero at all came up to him and said "I am Zero, obey me" would he have to obey them? If so, that's a pretty major flaw that wasn't really stated in the Geass command (so no LiteralGenie nonsense) and if not, then the Geass allows him the freedom to question claims to Zerohood, so why would he not be permitted to question a costumed Zero?
** For that matter, whom does Schneizel recognize as Zero? First it was Lelouch even though he wasn't wearing the costume (because Schneizel knew he was Zero), now it's Suzaku. (Does Schneizel know his identity?) Is he compelled to obey anyone who dons a Zero costume?
*** It's probably not that simple. Zero isn't just the costume. He's also a resistance leader, an ideal, so on.
*** The simplest explanation is that some point between then and Lelouch's death, Lelouch told Schneizel that Suzaku would be Zero upon his death, and as such should be treated as Zero in his absence.
*** Lelouch had already set up a work-around when he had Zero exiled from Japan/Area 11. He declared that Zero was an idea, not a person and therefore who ever represents the idea of Zero, a masked man who fights for justice, is infact Zero.
** There was an episode where millions of people dressed up as Zero and were recognized by the government as such. This was because Zero had become more than a person, he was a symbol of the Japanese people's collective strive for justice. It could be that Schneizel will feel obligated to obey that vague idea of justice.
* It has been clearly stated that Rolo's Geass has nothing to do with time manipulation, but just with stopping the victims perception of time. Then how is it possible that sometimes people are frozen while moving, or even just leaning to one side? Their own momentum should make them fall over.
** Maybe they tense up and stay in one position, like they're all playing Statue? They never shown us what happens to people who are straight out ''running'' in the series.
** Presumably they are mind controlled into standing still since all Geass seem to be based on some form of mind control, so they try to stay in one position as much as they are able.
** May I remind you of Rolo's HeroicSacrifice where he used his Geass until he dies? Well, there were helicopters...the pilots were frozen...and the helicopters fell into the Ocean.
** They are not at all consistent with how Rolo's Geass works. Rolo should have clearly died in episode 2 of R2. [[spoiler:When Urabe stabs Rolo's mech and explodes, Rolo survives thanks to his Geass by "warping" out of the way. However, as his Geass doesn't actually stop time, he shouldn't have been able to get away from that explosion. While everyone else's perception may have been stopped, the explosion wouldn't have been.]] However, at other times, his Geass has worked exactly like it's supposed to. For instance, [[spoiler:when he Geassed Suzaku in episode 6 of R2 so that Lelouch could speak with Nunnally and when he helped Lelouch escape in episode 19.]] Sometimes Rolo's Geass works as advertised and sometimes it's more like he's warping around. If anything, I'd say that what is generally the case is that Rolo's Geass works as advertised when we see it from his point of view but it's frequently done improperly (i.e. it looks like he's warping and nothing else moves) when shown from anyone else's point of view. Of course, even that's not always the case (e.g. when [[spoiler:he Geasses girls at the school in episode 12 of R2, they stopped moving completely instead of falling due to their momentum]]). The definitely explained how Rolo's Geass works, so that's quite clear, but they don't always follow those rules when showing him use it.
*** Rolo's escape in episode 2 of R2 makes a bit more sense when you take a closer look at what was going on, [[spoiler: Urabe pinned Rolo in a non critical area and stuck himself in a way that, when he moves his sword downwards, his Knightmare will blow up. Rolo realised this and froze Urabe just as he was about to move his sword, then Rolo broke free, careful not to move Urabe sword downwards. Urabe then unfroze and, unaware that Rolo had freed himself, struck the critical part of his Knightmare blowing himself up.]]
** On the subject of Rolo's Geass, how exactly was Lelouch able to deduce it anyway? I mean, yeah, the whole "I was counting time in my head and now I'm off" thing, but if I'm not mistaken he didn't even suspect Rolo of having a Geass power, let alone have any idea what that power might be. He was shocked when Rolo first used it on him in Turn 3 -- and not just as an act to throw Rolo off balance. The verbal reaction we hear is in his head, as evidenced by the pronoun used ("''He'' stopped time," not "''You'' stopped time.") So why was he counting time in the first place? Talk about CrazyPrepared...
*** Actually, he just noticed the time display in the corner of his eye jump forwards ~thirty seconds instantly.
* So, Lelouch is under a Geass-- something to the effect of "forget about telling Suzaku which wire to cut". Everyone else we see acting under the Geass's effects has a weird rim around their irises-- and if the effect is permanent (like the Geass Lelouch placed on himself), the rim around their irises is apparently also permanent. So why don't Lelouch's eyes show this?
** We don't see Lelouch acting under the effects of the Geass instruction he gave himself. By the time he's left the room with Suzaku he's already carried out the instruction, and then forgotten about doing it. Everyone under a Geass command forgets what they do under it completely, so he doesn't have to include that in the instruction, he can use a highly specific one time instruction which won't trigger again.
*** For him to even come up with the idea would give it away to Mao even if he didn't remember doing it-- so the memory loss can't (all) be because he was already Geassed; that would leave an odd dead-end "aha! I'll erase my own memory!" for Mao to see (and, unless he's even stupider that he seems, deduce the meaning of). So the order itself is to forget-- or to believe something (but it can't have been to believe something false or he wouldn't have realized at the end because he'd've been Geassed to still believe it even if he saw undeniable proof, right?)-- so any time he so much as thinks about that, he should have the rims around his irises. Right? (Then again, I don't recall Shirley's eyes doing that either, which makes even less sense than this.)
*** The outline may be simply a visual cue for the viewers and not a visible effect, since the characters never comment on the Main/MindControlEyes and don't even seem to notice them. In that case, Lelouch not having them is a matter of convenience; he's still under the effect of the Geass (at least until he gets Jeremiah, at which point he could have removed the effect offscreen). And the self-Geassing could have been phrased like, for example, "forget I gave the order, and forget I ever thought of coming up with the idea for this Geass, until Mao is defeated". Although Lelouch never engages in such lengthy, anti-Main/LiteralGenie wording, at least onscreen.
*** On an unrelated note: it's consistent throughout the series that people Geassed to forget something don't get the eye glow, even though it counts as a permanent Geass effect and can be removed by Jeremiah's Geass canceller (resulting in them getting the memories back). Case in point: Shirley.
*** Exactly. The red rim around the eyes only appears when the Geass is directly affecting the person. For instance, the "Live" Geass command that [[spoiler:Suzaku]] is under only appears when his life is in danger and the Geass is necessary to keep him alive. When affected by a command to forget, they forget more or less instantly, so the command is no longer necessary. They've already forgotten, so they're not really under the effect of the Geass anymore and the rims around the eyes don't appear. No one who is affected by [[spoiler:the Emperor]]'s Geass ever has red rims around their eyes. Their memories are altered immediately when they're Geassed, so there's no need for the Geass effect to continue, so there's no red rim around their eyes. The red rims appear only when being directly affected by a Geass.
*** The red rims issue has obviously been addressed: it doesn't apply to commands that deal strictly with memory. As for why Mao didn't figure out Lelouch's plot, this is most because one of the conditions of Mao's Geass is that he needs to focus to use it. Yes, he always picks up surface thoughts due to PowerIncontinence, but we know that even this is reduced if Mao focuses intently enough on one thing. In order to pick up on the gaps in Lelouch's memory, Mao would need to, first off, suspect such a ploy in the first place, and then to dig far below the surface of Lelouch's conscious thought. This would require taking attention away from Lelouch's current strategizing...which, given Lelouch's brilliance, is probably not a wise thing to do. It may have been a bit of a gamble on Lelouch's part, but the odds were definitely in his favor and it's not at all unreasonable that it paid off.
* What would have happened if Lelouch gave an order to...
** "Ignore this order"?
*** Why would ultimate ChessMaster Lelouch use his Geass on something that stupid? He's only interested in testing the limits and restrictions of the Geass and using the Geass on a wasteful experiment like that would reveal neither of these things and he never wastes a Geass or uses it purely to satisfy curiosity.
*** They would, as always, have a blank period of time. They wouldn't notice or care, even if it was pointed out to them. It would just be a couple of seconds and future Geass potential lost.
*** Wait... which order? Because that could make them ignore the order about ignoring the order, which would in turn keep them from ignoring it, making it just like a normal Geass. I think.
*** I'm not the original poster, but here's clarification: 'Ignore this order which I am giving you right now.' It's a logical paradox, like 'This statement is false.' If they ignore the order, then they're not ignoring the order. If they don't ignore the order, they're ignoring the order.
*** It's possible to escape this paradox if one ignores the order, and, in doing so, ignores the order or the conditions of the order. In other words, once someone ignores the order, they no longer have to wory about wether or not they are ignoreing the order. The real problem is when someone is ordered to disobey that order.
** "Allow me to use Geass on you unlimited times"?
*** Would depend on whether the person knew what a Geass was. In which case it would be like "follow all my orders" but the person would have to see the Geass effect (assuming it's not just visual shorthand) before following it.
*** But would this effect, or a "follow all my orders" Geass for that matter, incur the memory loss like from a normal Geass order? As for the "Geass effect", if you mean the purple bird eye thing, it's an actual visible effect because characters comment on it, but colored irises seen in people under the control of Geass are probably just an out-of-universe visual cue for the viewers.
*** Nothing I imagine. The geass only works once per person, and cannot make them do something physically impossible (see Shirley in R2)
*** Would have no effect on anyone. People have no control over whether they are geassed or not. The geass has its own rules. Similar to if he told them to no longer be affected by gravity.
** "Have a dream about X"?
*** Would probably have the dream.
** And speaking of which, related to the "knew what a Geass was" comment above: would the target follow an order phrased in a way they don't understand, for example, using unfamiliar words?
*** Considering that only understandable phrases have ever created the "Geass effect", an ununderstandable order probably wouldn't be "transmitted", as it were.
*** Also, consider that intent doesn't seem to have much to do with the effect, just the actual words spoken (as evidenced by the Euphinator Incident)
** Perform a bodily function that's biologically possible but can't be triggered at will, for example, "sweat" or "have an orgasm"? (No, I'm ''not'' thinking of Main/PowerPerversionPotential, I'm only interested in exploring the limitations of Lelouch's Geass).
*** I would think that if they can't trigger it at will, they would perform an action that would fulfill the command of the Geass. In the event of sweating, they'd just go someplace hot, and on having an orgasm, they'd... [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean * cough* ]]
*** Hmm, this make sense when I think of it. The easiest way to fulfill a "die" command would be to stop chemical activity that supports life. Since this can't be done at will, the victims have to resort to external means, that is, killing themselves.
*** On the other hand, if even a subconscious mental trigger can cause the effect, it would surely happen. I mean, you can't intentionally forget about something, because that would require you to think about it, resulting in a paradox, and yet a "forget" Geass still works just fine. Sweating can be caused by a subconscious trigger; I suppose the orgasm command would at least cause extreme sexual arousal.
*** Since Lelouch's Geass affects people who are used by it to forget that they've been Geassed, and actions they take the first time their Geass activates (I think that's how it works), it seems like manipulating memories is a specific exception to Lelouch's Geass' general rule, which seems to be that it must be something the subject is consciously capable of doing (otherwise, as has been pointed out, people would just drop dead when Lelouch tells them to die).
** Similar to the above, what about something that is physicly possible, but not bloody likely. Like "Grow a third arm", which is hypotheticly possible, but it would involve some weird genetic mutations or a birth defect.
*** Geass can't control the body, only the mind. "Grow a third arm" might compel them to seek out cybernetic surgery, a cardboard tube to tape to their side, or a [[AustinPowers Swedish penis enhancer]], or maybe it would just make them stare at Lelouch for a few seconds. But it can't randomly induce mutations or anything.
** You geass yourself to "Obey"?
*** Presumably it would cause you to blindly and automatically follow every order you gave to yourself in the future, even against yor own better judgement.
** "Make me a second Geass"? Or, to C.C, "Upgrade my Geass so it's unlimited"?
*** C.C. and other Code bearers are immune to Geass. Even if they weren't, it wouldn't work. As stated above, Geass powers follow their own rules; I think C.C. doesn't actually have control over what kind of Geass she grants, so she'd be unable to follow the order anyway.
*** Additionally we don't have anything to suggest that someone ''could'' have two Geass powers or that a Geass can be upgraded.
* If C.C. could really survive being chainsawed apart by Mao, [[Main/NightmareFuel which part would she regenerate from]]? The one that includes the head? What would happen to immortals if they were disintegrated/atomized? (The same could be asked about [[{{Torchwood}} Jack Harkness]], but let's leave him out of this for now.)
** She would probably regenerate from the head (well im just guessing because thats where her code is), and their is a good change that Jack probably dies after living a really long time (at one point he said that people used to call him the face of boa when he was younger and that he was continuing to age), not sure where he regenerates from though, either head or heart
** Well, she DID survive getting beheaded with a guillotine, so one could assume she starts from the head. Although it'd be entertaining to see that go down, starfish style.
** Probably it's more like a magnet or possibly even a liquidization thing. You know, like how [[{{Hellsing}} Alucard]] regenerates?
** Maybe her limbs would individually pull themselves back together, like [[StarWarsCloneWars Durge]].
** As for the disintegration thing, V.V. survived being stuck inside the exploding Siegfried and seemed to still be in once piece, though we can't know for sure if he actually ''was'' disintegrated or not, since it wasn't shown.
*** Code bearers are not immune to dismemberment. This troper can't recall where exactly, but he read once that after episode 25 of the first season, C.C.'s was eventually crushed by ocean pressure and she floated back up to the surface as a mess of body parts, where she eventually regenerated. The creators didn't show that because of how much NightmareFuel that would be.
* In Episode 19 of season one CC said that she knew Lelouch was alive, presumably because of her connection to him with Geass. If she could 'just tell' due to that connection, why on earth did she not tell Lelouch earlier that Mao was still alive after being shot full of bullets by police?
** Presumably, her contract with Mao was considered terminated, either before or after forging one with Lelouch. She probably left Mao and terminated their contract, severing their mind link, but couldn't remove his Geass. Either that, or she can't feel more than one Geass user empowered by her.
** It might also be that he never asked. He's a capable fellow and at that point she was more hanging out with him than working under him.
** It seemed like she was talking to whoever sent Lelouch, Kallen, Suzaku, and Euphie to the island, and she knew because they told her that all four arrived safely... (or at least that three of them did, because they tell C.C. about Kallen when she talks to them at the end of that scene.)
*** At that time she was talking to the emperor so the question is how did he know that
*** She was talking to V. V., not the Emperor.
**** Actually, I believe she was talking to Marianne, correct me if I'm wrong, though.
* If a Geass user wore an eyepatch over the Geass eye, would it block their Geass? Would closing the eye block the Geass? And if so, does it mean the voices in Mao's head stop every time he blinks?
** For Lelouch's Geass wearing an eyepatch or closing your eyes would work. His Geass is based on Light and eye contact so anything that blocks eye contact or diverts enough of the light away from the eye would stop it from working.
*** In Suzaku of the Counterattack, after Lelouch gets captured, he has a bandage placed over his Geass eye.
** Not all Geass work via direct eye contact. Rolo's doesn't, for instance. Those that do can be blocked by eyelids, barriers, that sort of thing.
*** Suzaku's hand, for one.
** It would probably work for Lelouch, Charles, and anyone else who had to have eye contact. Satan knows where the Knight of One fits in to all that.
*** His Geass apparently works only when it's open because he said "I've only used this on one other person" and then opened his eye. If it worked even when it was closed then he would've used it on a lot more than one person.
*** Actually, that's a bit of a tricky one. Evidently Bismark's eye has to be open in order for his geass to work, but since he personally didn't have line-of-sight to Suzaku at any point during the final battle, it's an open question as to ''why''. Then again, we've never seen Rolo use his with his eyes closed, and Jeremiah had to open his eye also (though his quasi-cybernetic geass may not obey the usual rules. Possibly all geases, regardless of their nature are ''deactivated'' when the wielder closes his or her eyes.
*** I just assumed that since his Geass made him see the future, closing his Geass eye would be the same as closing a normal one; you see your eyelid.
* How detailed can an order be? "Lelouch vi Britannia commands you to: rewrite copies of the provided letter by hand, sign it, mail them to all your friends, transfer all your XYZ Industries stocks to the Order of the Black Knights, donate all your personal possessions to charity, go to countryside in mainland Britannia, and live the rest of your life as a hermit."
** Probably even more detailed than that. I think the most detailed order we saw was in R2 episode 4, to the guy who he Geassed to fire at Rolo; the flashback we got had him saying stuff like "...and if he moves in [[AttackPatternAlpha pattern sigma]] do this. Afterwards, stand by," which implied that he'd come up with movement patterns with code names, gone over them with this guy, and made contingencies for each, and all that had been incorporated into the order he gave him.
* What would happen if someone, say, [[GurrenLagann Kamina]], was wearing reflective sunglasses, and Lelouch tried to use the eye on him? Assuming Leoluch hadn't Geass'd himself beforehand?
** HilarityEnsues. Even more so, depending on the angle of the glasses and their curve.
** Let's just say, reflective sunglasses play heavily into the "Lelouch vs. ArtemisFowl" crossover in this troper's head. Lucky Artemis is wearing his anti-mesmer gear.
* Do immortals like C.C. ''need'' to eat? Do they have the rest of normal human physiological needs?
** Most likely not. CC just seems to REALLY enjoy pizza, and bugging Lelouch for more.
** I don't think she could die of hunger, what's with the regenerative abilities and all (even if she did, she's come back to life), but I would assume her body still functions (for example she still breathes), so she could still feel hungry. So while she wouldn't need to eat (or breathe, if she'd be willing to keep suffocating and coming back to life every 10 minutes or so), she would probably want to do so anyway
* That geass Lelouch used on Suzaku - does it mean Suzaku is immortal, or just that he can't be killed?
** It means he'll do everything in his power to continue living. Which forces him to fight as hard as he can, to defend himself if someone attacks him (sucks for his death wish), or even [[spoiler:to choose the exact correct split-second to shoot at an oncoming nuke]]. But as [[spoiler:Shirley]] proved, being Geassed to live won't work if there's nothing you can do to stop yourself from dying.
*** Which kind of begs the question: Would Suzaku go after C.C. (assuming he knows about her code of immortality), when he grows old and in danger of dying? Shirley being unable to not die was because she had a very limited timeframe and NO knowledge of the possibility of immortality, Suzaku however will live for at least another 50-60 years. What happens then?
*** Even if Suzaku did know how, he does not possess the means, and wouldn't be able to evolve it quickly enough to manage by the time subverting death became an overwhelming and immediate concern.
** Not only didn't it make him immortal, it didn't make him literally unkillable either. Just extremely hard to kill as long as he's consciously aware of the danger and can somehow avert it even in very limited timeframe.
*** He lost to Kallen despite having the "Live!" Geass in effect, but that may have enabled him to find a way to survive the destruction of his Knightmare Frame.
*** He lost to Kallen because the Guren was just too damn powerful for the Lancelot to handle at the time. There was no way he could win that fight normally.
*** The Guren wasn't overwhelmingly stronger than the Lancelot, only better spec-wise, and clearly not by much. He lost to Kallen because she's a better pilot. Unless you mean the first time the SEITEN crushed him.
*** Against the SEITEN it forced him to not hold back his last option (Fliea). Once he fired that and she dodged it, he would have been helpless to resist her finishing him off Geass or not were she not distracted by the big explosions. It really only prevents him from holding back during fights.
* What would happen if Lelouch geassed [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Discworld Vimes]] to do something that goes totally against his principles?
** Probably the same thing tha happened to Euphemia. He resists for a bit then succumbs.
** Problem is Vimes' men are more GenreSavvy than that. By the time he started issuing genocide orders, Carrot, Aunga and Detrius would have him bound, gagged, and halfway to the Unseen University. Ponder Stibbons would take a great interest but have no insight whatsoever, Ridicully would do something funny, Colon would make a poor attempt as the bad cop in the "Good Cop Bad Cop" routine. Then Ventari would confront Lelouch (wearing a blindfold, obviously), while Lenoard of Quirm would send Nobby and Colon in his "[[TimeMachine Go Backwards In Time And Hopefully Not Kill Your Own Grandfather Device]]", where the two would specatualarly fail to change the past. Then some other stuff would happen and... um, never mind. Got off track there for a moment.
** Personally, I'd rather see Lelouch and ''Carrot'' meet up, mainly for the contrast in philosophies between the long-lost heir to the throne who believes "Personal isn't the same as important", and the long-lost prince whose personal priorities have [[SpannerInTheWorks repeatedly screwed over his own rebellion]].
** The Geass is based upon light, as shown by Lelouch being able to geass himself via mirror. Light moves slower on the discworld, so it's effect would be either mitigated or lesened. Also, the power of belief is VERY strong on the disc, and Vimes is believed to be un-mind-controllable and incorruptible. So, because of these and the arguments above, I don't think Lelouch could geass Vimes to go against his principle.
* With Orange's Geass Cancel thing, what happens to commands given by Lelouch? Obviously, someone would stop acting under the order. But what about orders that were complete? I have a problem with the fact that Shirley regains memories she was told to forget, because she already forgot. They should be gone. Does the cancel "heal" the memories?
** Lelouch's geass is shown to change the target's brain structure.. Orange's Geass Cancel essentially reverses any changes made to the target's brain by Geass, which would return all lost memories, and remove any existing mental compulsions put in place by the Geass, but not undo any actions already taken because of it.
** I view this as being similar to "deleting" a file in Windows. It's not gone, just the "address" to it is. The memories aren't gone, they just can't be accessed. Orange-kun's Geass removes the block on the memories, not recreates them.
* If Lelouch needs to look directly into someone's eyes in order to use the Geass, how on Earth could he ever use it on more than one person at the same time? You can't even look into the eyes of two people at the same time unless you're crosseyed or something.
** It's just eye contact which is needed, and only on the part of the victim. The victim only needs to be able to see the light of the sigil in his eye for the command to take affect, and in this respect it would be very easy to catch mass numbers of people with even one eye as long as you can hold their attention.
* Just... what determines which Geass power you get, exactly? It can't be that each person who bestows Geass gives a different power; CC gave Geass to at least 3 people (Lelouch, Mao, and Marianne, right?) and none of them have the same power. So..., how do people get so many different powers? Is it up to the bestower (i.e., CC, etc.) to decide, or is it always something that could benefit you given your situation (though it's not clear to me how much use the ability to read minds would be to a six-year-old orphan boy...), or is it completely random?
** It depends on your personality and your desires. Lelouch desires to command, CC desired love and affection, Rolo wished that time would not pass, and Charles wished to remake people's natures. I'm not sure exactly ''what'' Marianne could have wanted for her to have a "copy mind" Geass though.
** Marianne's Geass looks a lot more like a desire to escape her own body. Maybe she hated being a commoner, or something, and it makes sense that it would activate just as she was dying.
* What would happen if Mao was in a room with a bunch of people thinking in different languages? Could he understand all of them (does his Geass come with some sort of personal translator that would make them all into something he could understand)? Or would it be just like hearing someone speaking in a language you had never heard before?
** Well, you're thinking in English right now, arn't you?
*** What's that supposed to mean? I don't see how it answers my question....
*** Mao hears surface thoughts, so they would come across in the person's native tongue.
*** I am Italian, I live in Italy, and I've been thinking in English for five years now. If Mao happened to overhear my surface thoughts, they would come across in English.
*** Common tongue, then. Either way, English is the language you default to. Someone who had no understanding of English, or wasn't good at it, would think in some other language.
** Sometimes you think in no language, like when you know there's a word for something but can't remember the word. Also, the subconscious, which Mao can read if he concentrates, doesn't think in language, so I think he'd be able to understand thoughts of any nationality.
* If Jeremiah used his Geass Canceller on someone who Lelouch had previously Geass'd, would Lelouch be able to Geass them again?
** Apparently so - in the first season, Lelouch geasses Shirley to forget about him. And then in ''R2'', she gets hit by the Geass Canceller, all that shit goes down - and Lelouch tries to Geass her to stay alive after she gets shot. It doesn't ''work'', since he's apparently too late to fight biology, but she's showing the red rings that indicate she's under a Geass effect.
*** I might be totally imagining this, but I'm pretty sure Kallen's eyes also showed the red rim for a moment, the second time Lelouch Geassed her. The teacher, too. Both times, the red wore off because it was the second time, and the victim threw off the command. I always assumed it was the same with Shirley.
*** There's no red on either Kallen or the teacher. It flat doesn't do anything on the rebound.
* Would Geass work on a cybernetic eye?
** Not counting area of affect Geass, no, or at least it would be highly unlikely. Since Geass does not work through a camera, the light transmission that triggers it must have wavelengths that cameras won't capture. The same would apply to a cybernetic eye.

[[WMG:Other]]
* In the first episode terrorist attack and steel biological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people they were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series
** The so called biological gas canister belonged to Britannia. The resistance cell was getting them out of their hands, so they couldn't have it used it against them. Clovis ordered the purge because he feared that he would be disowned if he were to get caught, nothing more.
*** There actually is a bit more to that, Clovis was afraid that they would be able to hones the witch’s powers and use it against them, there was also the fact that losing here would hurt his plan to find out what happened to this DeadLittleSister and Brother that were killed by the Japanese setting of the war in the first place. Also keeping something that powerful from the government might be considered treason which is punishable by death. Plus he did care about the people living in area eleven even having a public memorial for solders in that episode; yes he was at a party but the fact he took the time to honor them shows he views them as more then cannon fodder like some of his siblings, Clovis is a lot more complicated then you give him credit for.
*** He wanted to honor Lelouch and Nunnally's memory. He had no idea they were still alive. While I do recognize how caring Clovis was towards his siblings, the moment at the party he was at clearly demonstrates he hardly cares a whit for the Elevens there.
* Kallen is a JerkSue KarmaHoudini with a humongous dose of MoralDissonance. She has a hand in all the major disaster and deaths in the series, in the first episode she lead the Britannian military into a crowded area to use the people as human shields after stealing chemical weapons yet nobody blames her for the inevitable conclusion. Later she sets off a device causing massive landslides and the biggest casualty count at that time including the father of one of her best friends and barley shows any emotion over it. Later she tries to kill a man she knows she can not be killed and he releases a nuclear bomb because of it (granted she did not know about it before attacking him), yet she seems only concerned about Lelouch after it happened. She also showed no qualms about murdering her friends in cold blood if they might have made her as a terrorist. She tries to stab both Lelouch and Shirley in the back and they were only saved by lucky interruptions (in one of the cases it was planed). She is also a BloodKnight that seems to only be in it for the killing sure, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really does not like them either because they are weak especially her mother(even though she does gain some sympathy for her). The worst thing to happen to her in the series was being captured and her friend considered using EnhancedInterrogationTechniques on her but decided against it because it was to much like something her side would do, yet she still viciously beats him for even considering it after he lets her out. She was also taunted by a JerkAss which people act like is the worst thing to happen to somebody. She never gets punished and she gets a happy ending. Amazing what you notice re-watching the series
** Kallen had no intention of using the civilians for human shields. Heck, she had no intention of getting caught in the first place, which was all Tamaki's fault for screwing up the plan. When Nagata, who was driving the truck, suggested using the canister, she forbade it. It was because Suzaku put a [[SpannerInTheWorks spanner in their resistance]] by undoing the progress they had made after Lelouch had helped them out in secret that the Britannian soldiers were able to corner them. She thinks of killing Lelouch and Shirley only with the intention of protecting her identity as a freedom fighter against Britannian tyranny, not because she's a BloodKnight. When she learns about the Narita landslide killing Shirley's father, she is absolutely devastated. In the DayInTheLimelight episode, she doesn't view the Japanese as weak, as you put it. She only sees her mother that way for willing to become a maid in the household, and for taking Refrain (of course, before learning her reasons). She gives Suzaku a smackdown because of the implications of threatening her with the drug that addicted her mother, and that it was only because he "didn't want to stoop down to Zero's level", not because he really cared about her. And she had no idea about Suzaku having the geass command; it was more a case of Suzaku being too reckless and suicidal to retreat when he was losing. (We don't really see anything else from her the following episode aside from her retrieving Lelouch.) And Kallen has nothing bad happen to her aside from being held captive by Suzaku? What about getting used by Ohgi to lure out Zero in order to betray him without a word in the matter, and as a result ultimately loses Lelouch, the man behind the mask, and responsible for a large part of the victories and resulting peace? Ohgi and the Black Knights themselves, who complicate things because of the betrayal, get off scot free. And don't get me started on some of the enemy Britannians who live on.
*** No terrorist ever has the intention of being caught however the police were already in pursuit by the time we see her there were plenty of chances for them to either ditch the cargo or get to a less populated area before they turned into the ghetto tunnels where Britannia trapped them. Also she did not want to use the gas because it would kill the two of them not because of the safety of the people around them. She was also willing to kill her friends because she thought they might have identified her as a terrorist (I know the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"). She only seemed a little disturbed after the land slide contrast that with Lelouch who was actually devastated. Her view on most of the japans was that they were weak subservient to the Britannians, maybe not as literal as her biological mother but it was the same principle. She thought this because they weren’t fighting like she was and the empire actually had a higher approval rating then the terrorist until the tower. Suzakue did not drug her because it would damage her, what zero douse damages people. They did not trick her into betraying him. They simply asked him to bring him there so they could confront him about the pile of evidence, plus they assumed that she had been keeping information from them which she was. Ohgi seemed to have better morals then her and even though he was used by a pair of evil princes in there insane revenge schemes like she was, he was always much more cuscus and did not have a hand in any mass murder.
*** The danger of letting what was purported to be a Britannian made and owned payload of toxic gas was far too great to risk at that point. Kallen was against the use of gas against civilians, specifically saying it would be a bloodbath. Again, she only saw killing anyone who found out her identity as a resistance fighter necessary to keep it a secret. And she only saw Honorary Britannians as weak and subservient, but that doesn't mean she didn't pity them. And Suzaku only didn't drug Kallen because he didn't want to "be like Zero". And while Lelouch as Zero may have done some objectionable things, he was also getting results towards getting people their freedom, contrary to Suzaku who at the time was aiding the Britannian status quo. Ohgi and the rest of the Black Knights were ready to shoot to kill Lelouch, to which effect they yelled at her to get out of the way or else she would be shot, as they suspected her of being under Lelouch's geass as well. Ohgi may have not had a hand in mass murder per se, but he was willing to follow all of Lelouch's plans, which makes him just as responsible. Beyond that as well, his plan to trade Lelouch for Japan would have left the rest of the UFN out to dry, which would have made him an even bigger traitor. On top of that, [[LoveMakesYouDumb he seems to be mostly concerned with Villetta, up until that point a Britannian spy who he's been keeping secret]], and still offers inaccurate testimony against Lelouch, which is followed to predictably disastrous results. And beyond that, Lelouch does not deserve to be lumped in with Schneizel like that. Lelouch uses extreme methods because he has little alternative; Schneizel does so because he can, hence his self proclamation to playing God near the end of the series with Damocles.
* The Black Knights after chapter 19 of R2 ''Hey, let's totally dismiss the guy who has helped us to become a real threat for the britannian empire, who has given us hope. Oh, and let's join the Britannian prince, our major enemy in the past, for no reason. '' To summarize:\\
--[[MsFanservice Kallen]]: Lelouch, I don't like this, but I'll have to kill you because... I dunno, guess I prefer blondes (Gino, Schneizel...) nevermind that I was your most loyal soldier and we had lots and lots of UnresolvedSexualTension. \\
--[[DistractedByTheSexy Ohgi]]: zOMG TITS!!1one Oh, yeah, I'll join you, Viletta.\\
--[[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder Diethard]]: Everything is more interesting with the rebels. Therefore I'll join with Schneizel.\\
--[[TrueNeutral Rakshata]]: Meh, I'm happy making mecha.\\
--[[ChewToy Tamaki]]: WOAH WTF IS THIS GUY GOOD OR BAD?! I JUST WANNA FIGHT DAMMIT!\\
--[[TallDarkAndHandsome XingKe]]: If I joined Lelouch, the Tian Zi could be safer. But I'm gonna be the hero and rescue her!
** This kinda fails on several levels. To start, the initial betrayal did not even include Rakshata or Xingke. Rakshata only found out later. And really, what's she gonna do about it? She's in no position to change their minds. Xingke looked pissed when he finally found out, and by then it was far too late to change the game. Tamaki is Tamaki, but even he was the voice of reason (shocking, I know) almost the entire time. Furthermore, Diethard was against it the entire time, but realized that he couldn't talk them down. Kallen also refused to betray Lelouch, up until he broke her heart, and even then he negated it at the last second. She doesn't actually start fighting against him until he becomes Emperor and really starts being evil. Until that point, she tried to get the Black Knights to see reason. When that obviously wouldn't work, she tried to hunt him down to ask him the question she asked in 22, not to kill him. It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
*** Actually, the second "evil thing" Lelouch did after becoming Emperor was capture the UFN representatives. The first being dismantling the nobility and Numbers systems, which resulted in civil uprisings that were put down. Once he did that and rejected her, Kallen fully tried to kill him with her own hands to make up for her apparently horrifically misplaced trust. Like Shirley before her, it may have been an attempt at a murder-suicide, but that's just speculation.
* Why do people constantly try and apply BlackAndWhite morality to this show when it is supposed to be GreyAndGrayMorality. Lelouch was not a great hero but a terrorist that killed dozens if not hundreds of innocent people for what he thought would help him get revenge on his father for not protecting his mother. The Britannia Empire was not completely bad or oppressive, while the military did seem pretty bad they never attacked first and only responded to terrorist attacks, and the rest of the government took strides not to hurt the Japanese people even if it would help fight the terrorist. This can best be seen when Viceroy Cornelia tried to convince local legislatures to destroy the tunnels and they refused because it would hurt the Japanese economy. While both sides had their share of KickTheDog and PetTheDog moments neither was completely good or bad.
** While I agree about the morality not being stark, the Britannian Empire had a habit of taking over nations through military actions and striping them of every drop of individuality, demoting its citizens to second class (or worse), cheerfully followed a guy who claimed that all morals were mere attempts by the weak to trick the strong into playing by their rules and thus could be completely ignored, ordered pogroms of entire districts to keep their dirty laundry from being aired, and nonchalantly followed said orders when given to them. Even Cornelia, who seemed more interested in protecting/avenging her family and finding a good fight than in any real political goals, was casually racist (classist?) against anyone that wasn't Britannian, at least up until she found out about Geass. While some of them weren't quite that bad, and several of the other factions were quite nasty as well, Britannia as a whole was a cancerous blight upon their world.
*** I do not understand where the stripping cultures of their individuality argument came from, it was only said by Zero in a speech to terrorists. The Britannian settlement culture seems much closer to Japanese then Western culture like they were trying to adapt to the local setting. Also if everyone born a Number was discriminated against how come an Eleven was a high ranking knight of honor and later became viceroy of the area despite Japan only joining 7 years earlier. It seems much closer to the Japan's system where being born in a place does not make you a citizen but you can become one with full rights. The destruction of the ghetto was from the terrorists using human shields against a pursuing military; it was a dammed if you do dammed if you don’t for the military. Also Cornelia was by far the most brutal member of the family since she was the only one who went on offence. Still I do not think she was racist considering the fact she had an Eleven as her personal knight, she did not like the terrorists. Calling the empire a cancerous blight is a bit harsh
*** There's no cultural adaptation. The natives lose their former cultural identities and freedoms and become second-class citizens. And Suzaku became a Knight of the Round for the following reasons: 1) he caught Zero, 2) the Emperor liked his reasoning for turning over Lelouch, and 3) the Emperor knew he could use Suzaku. Suzaku never became viceroy btw. The ghetto never used civilians as human shields. Plus, Euphemia was the one with an Eleven knight, Suzaku; Cornelia had Guilford. Cornelia was incredibly racist towards Numbers to the point where she saw nothing of razing a Japanese civilian ghetto.
*** What evidence do you have that their culture was suppressed besides the black knight saying so. People where seen dressing in traditional japans clothing practicing customs and even apparently adapting there social ideas (have you ever seen a 17 year old western girl reacting to having to kiss somebody like they were being forced to lose their virginity). Also the knight I was referring to was not Suzaku are you forgetting that Gilford was also Japanese a knight and became viceroy, yet nobody bated an eye. I think Britannia apprehension around Suzaku was more because he was the son of a former enemy then that he was a former number. And even though Cornelia was the most brutal viceroy and like her brother considered dead civilians collateral damage, she did attempt to evacuate areas they were planning on attacking.
*** Guilford was Japanese? You must have been watching a different show. And the Japanese were essentially treated like second-class citizens, even Honorary Britannians. And that Cornelia did try to evacuate areas they were planning on attacking was no excuse for the atrocities she made.
** To add to that, the reason for Clovis not destroying or sealing the tunnels was not because it would threaten the Japanese economy, it was because it was too expensive. Clovis wasn't willing to spend that much money to stop the terrorists, because any casualties they caused were simply not important to him. Cornelia did destroy an entire ghetto - even if there was enough time for people to get out - just to lure out Zero. And most of those people would not have anywhere else to live. And the whole execution, not only of the Shinjiku Ghetto's population, but of fellow Britannians in the Babel Tower at the start of R2.
*** Clovis did care about the casualties but it was not his choice to fill in the tunnels it was the legislators, the viceroy only appeared to be in charge of the military. Also of the incidents you mentioned one was done by pursuing terrorist that were attempting to use the people as human shields and the other was done by VV and the Geass cult not the Britannia military.
*** Nothing could be further from the truth. Clovis only cared about covering his reputation. The resistance cell was only trying to get away through the tunnels. They were not attempting to use humans as shields.
*** Clovis cared a lot of thing then his reputation, and considering what it was he did not care about it at all. Also you do not escape into or under a highly populated area if you are not planning on using the people there as shelter.
*** What it was was that he didn't want the project, Code C, getting leaked out or lost. Heck, he cared little about the Elevens to begin with. His speech was just for show, and he admitted as much in private. And the resistance fighters had no other escape path.
** It's more BlackAndGreyMorality. Britannia is quite obviously really, really bad, with the Numbers getting most of the suffering. Lelouch himself tried for the perfect "no ally or civilian casualties" solutions, though with a tendency towards flash and explosions, and those people who die as a result are because of things outside his control - like Diethard having Kallen kill Suzaku, Tamaki being far too trigger happy for his own good, C.C.'s brute force insertion of Babel Tower, Schneizel authorising an anti-city weapon in his own city, or simply not expecting people to be there. Though the novelisations' take on that is that Shirley's father was one of the scientists working on C.C., which is a logical interpretation of the events of the series, so the only major incident of civilians dying as a result of Lelouch is where [[spoiler: Euphemia is driven insane and Lelouch and Suzaku follow behind her.]] Which was unexpected, but a likely outcome of his intended action. Of course, many could argue that makes Lelouch "White", but he does murder several JLF officers because he thinks they're completely useless. Which they do seem to be, but that's not the point.
*** What show were you watching, it was the Britannians who tried to minimalis casualties by evacuating people from areas where they thought battles were going to take place. Lelouch did not really care who died as long as it furthered his goal. This is best illustrated at the battle of mount Narita but he had Kallen detonate the VARIS which caused a giant landslide that killed not only enemy soldiers but also his JLF allies and countless InnocentBystanders who were in nearby towns one of which was Shirley father (who was a geologist working for a mining company). He wagged several other battles in heavily populated areas.
*** Incorrect. Britannia is no more concerned about getting civilians out of areas likely to be affected. In the case of Narita, Lelouch underestimated the landslide's effect. He had no intention of causing that much damage.
*** Thank you, above poster. I just watched the part where Lulu is conflicted about causing Shirley's father's death, and it irked me that he was conflicted at all. Even though Shirley's father never hit her, he joined the Britannian military, which has been proven evil, so that makes him an accomplice to evil at least.
*** He wasn't in the army in the anime as I recall. He was a geographer or some such; at the very least, it was a civilian job.
* Why do people keep saying that Shirley was {{Mind Rape}}d by Mao? When he met her she was already mentally broken having found out that the terrorist who had killed her father was the boy she had a crush on and then panicking and shooting a knight of honor. From there dialog it was pretty clear that she had already decided to kill Lelouch and then herself. While Mao certainly did not help her and gave her a push to go through with her plan, he certainly did not MindRape her. I am not saying that he is not capable of mind raping people as he was shown doing it to Suzaku a few episodes later, he just did not have to do it to Shirley. This is especially ironic considering the fact Lelouch did use his geass to mind rape Shirley later that episode.
** Because Mao did mind rape her. She wasn't dead set on killing him. She arguably wouldn't even have done it, considering she still hadn't accepted shooting Villetta. What he did is classic mind rape, dragging all the skeletons out her closet to haunt her with. There's no other way to describe it.
** Also, ''Lelouch'' [[MindRape Mind Rapes]] Shirley?! What gave anyone that idea? All he did to her was apply LaserGuidedAmnesia and there's no evidence that her mind was any more broken for it....
** He did mind rape her and for the rest of the season she was seen struggling with her memory loss and trying to find out what caused it. When Zero and the black knights appeared in the season final she attempted to attack him and wanted to know what he did to her mind. Sounds like MindRape to me.
*** Come to think of it... this may be a minor detail but when Shirley is first being threatened by Mao why does she just let him MindRape her? Yes, she was going through a hard time, and yes, it's implied she's not too bright; but if a scary-looking punk kid who's at least your age and clearly bigger than you (and possibly stronger) comes up and tries to have a conversation with you your first impulse should be to do anything you can to get away. You don't listen to them, you don't take anything from them.... That's just basic self-defense skills that are even taught to children. Shirley wasn't backed up against a wall, or trapped in a dark alleyway; she was in a wide courtyard, in a presumably more-or-less public place, in broad daylight. So why didn't she do anything to try to get away from Mao or alert someone else? Regardless of whether he was actually determined enough to chase after her she would still stand a chance of getting away. Anyone have any ideas?
*** She did not run and listened to him because she was that mentally defeated after what had happened and she was glad that some one offered her understanding and agreed with what she was thinking, while Mao did give her a push she was already defeated and wanted to avenge her father, Mao offered to help her achieve her goals and she took him up on it.
*** Shirley was too much of a pacifist to actually kill Lelouch, and was quite confused during her time at Narita. While your point that Mao only pushed her still stands, it has to be kept in mind that taking advantage of her broken mind to goad her into killing someone she cares about while calling her evil for what basically amounts to shooting one person and a bit of thoughtcrime regarding Lelouch pretty much fits the definition of MindRape. Lelouch, meanwhile, is a better candidate for ShootTheDog in this case, since it helped her calm down and live normally for a while. At least, until people pointing out her "fight" with Lulu (which didn't fit into her memories), combined with her finding that diary page, caused her to want to ask questions near the end of the series. Also note that she doesn't do anything like turn Lelouch in, and actually figured she was safe and that Lelouch wouldn't hurt the Student Council if they all stayed calm and obeyed the Black Knights during the takeover of Ashford during the Black Rebellion.
* In episode 4 of season 1, during Suzaku's rescue, we get a view of Diethard's van, which has about ten cameras trained on Zero including close-ups. Despite this, Zero is able to open the slot in his mask and Geass Jeremiah, and nobody notices this piece of evidence later, not even Jeremiah himself when he is investigating the cause of his betrayal and memory loss.
* Anyone else gets the creeps by Lelouch's "trade" with Genbu is sound episode .533?
** I doubt he was trading his body. All Genbu wanted from Nunnally was some solid shield to stop Britannia invading. We never find out exactly what Lelouch offers. If anything, I find attempting to marry Nunnnally morally repugnant, and should have blown his chances for re-election completely.
* Lelouch has 10 older brothers (as 11th prince) and 2 older sisters, yet he is 17th in line for the throne. Who else aside from his siblings would be in line before him?
** Younger sisters, for starters (Carine, fifth princess, was only Nunnally's age). There's probably other family members we don't hear about.
*** But why would younger siblings be AHEAD of Lelouch in line for the throne? Sholdn't Nunally and Corrine be considered, like, 18th and 19th in line?
*** Actually Nunnally is 87th in line for the throne, it was stated in R2 episode 7.
*** The wives are also ranked (Marianne was fifth), so even younger heirs from higher-placed wives would have a higher spot.
** There's really no real-world system that fits, no. The best idea is that wives themselves count as possible heirs. Which is absurd, and no monarchy would agree to it, unless the eldest prince is too young to ascend, and only until the prince is old enough.
*** Supposedly, the Britannian system is based upon the Japanese imperial system from a few centuries ago, when the Emperor would take several wives and concubines, have children by them, and have the children ordered according to age and preference. The heirs were known to marry each other as a way to strengthen inter-clan alliances. The Turkish Ottoman system was likely another influence of the ''CodeGeass'' one, where the Sultan would have numerous children by wives and concubines, have them take over provinces as governors/viceroys, and then let them duke it out for the throne once the old king is dead[[hottip:*:[[{{Coldplay}} Long live]] [[FanVid the king!]]]] ([[KlingonPromotion or before then]]). Likely, it's a mix of both systems with a bit of the British system thrown in. Taking all this into account, it's likely that Lelouch is 11th Prince (and Nunnally 11th Princess) due to the warring factors of his and his mother's brilliance and favour with TheEmperor, at odds with his mother's commoner heritage. Also keep in mind that Lelouch is 11th Prince, but it's likely that Cornelia, Guinevere, Euphie, and other Princesses are included in the order after each prince (Odysseus, followed by Guinevere, then Scheizel, then Cornelia, then Clovis, then Euphie, then Carine, etc... then Lelouch somewhere down the line). At one point in a sound episode, a brother by the name of Oscar is mentioned offhand by Schneizel as a possible viceroy for Area 11 before Clovis volunteers. Nunnally could be 87th in line for the throne due to the fact that she is considered useless due to her blindness and paralysis, having been bumped down the list after being reinstated (or being there all along, since she was seven when she was cast out and not particularly useful to Chuck). Lelouch, likewise, would be higher than some of his older siblings due to his genius, but lower than others, hence 17th in line whilst there were 21 princes and princesses ahead of him. Carine likely got so high due to her sheer bloodlust - a valued trait in a racist militaristic empire. Euphie probably got by based on being Cornelia's sister, which is probably why Nunnally was 11th princess to Lulu's prince. The number a royal heir is attached to doesn't always match up with their designated place in the line of succession, it would seem.
* Does it bother anyone else that all the conflicts and problems dealt with on the show (except for the Ragnarok Connection) are either the direct or indirect results of actions taken by two young boys who meet up together 7 years later and cause more problems.
** God yes. I tried to watch this show, having been told to expect DeathNote with {{Gundams}}. What I got was two brats taking out their {{Wangst}} on each other and everything/everyone around them. Get a therapist, you two.
** Except for the part where everything that happens is ''because'' of the Ragnarok Connection, making the events of the series the direct or indirect results of actions taken by two fraternal twins (one of which takes an immortality Code) in an effort to ''kill God'' over the death of their mother. Really, give some credit where it's due.
* When Lelouch faced down Mao with his first videotape ploy, something hit me in hindsight. No disrespect, the plan was awfully nice and everything, you know, besides Mao ''surviving''. Why on earth couldn't he just have employed the services of a ''sniper''? 500 metres is by no means an impossible shot, and it's not beyond Lelouch's means to requisition a character with the skills for the job. To be fair, finding a professional sniper may be difficult, but it is no less unwieldy to Geass a platoon's worth of regular police officers to shoot him up close either, not to mention the whole videotape thing.
** Because that wouldn't be nearly as extravagant. It doesn't fit Lelouch's [[LargeHam M.O.]] Also, from the out-of-universe end, [[RuleOfCool it's not nearly as cool.]]
*** Yes, the sniper would be very anti-climactic. Then again, if you take a look at Cornelia's gun, they may not actually have sniper rifles with that kind of range, or there wasn't any tall enough buildings that weren't public access, etc.
* Why does everybody blame Ohgi and Schneizel for the Black Knight's defection? While it is true learning about Lelouch's past and Geass ability was the straw that broke the camel's back, the coup had been being planed by the Four Holy Swords, specifically Asahina and Chiba, since the massacre of the Geass order and he replaced the previous high command with the Pureblood commander and an unknown Britanian. While the reveal of his identity and powers did probably help with some like Diethard and Tohdoh all the stuff he did leading up to it had probably already sealed his fate.
** There are a number of reasons. First and foremost, Schneizel's claims have virtually zero real evidence behind them. He couldn't prove half of his claims, even if on a base level they were true. The thing is, Ohgi came in, having bought Villetta's story on no evidence at all, and started verifying everything like a damn moron. He's in even less of a position to know for sure, and he's playing Schneizel's game like he has half an idea what he's talking about. Villetta said jump and he did, it's that simple. As for your claim of a coup in progress, that's just nonsense. They may not have trusted him, and Asahina outright betrayed him (and got nuked for it, not that he would have survived against Rolo anyway), but they weren't planning any coup. Chiba especially, who heard nothing about the massacre. Jeremiah and the others were also in no position of power, just trust, which as Rolo notes is the more important thing to Zero. Finally, Diethard was never won over. He was forced into playing along because he couldn't salvage the situation in the face of their irrational behavior. Tohdoh didn't even bring up the cult massacre.
*** Schneizel actually did have proof, he had a recording of Lelouch talking about his powers and admitting what he did to Euphey. Also we don't know exactly Villetta told and showed Ohgi, however she did have recordings of him using his power and talking about it from when she was working with him in the Britannia secret base at school. It also filled in holes about strange behavior people seemed to have around him like why the spearhead of the empire Viceroy Gilford suddenly turned on them, and why the senior commanders of the JLF suddenly decided to commit suicide before they joined Lelouch. Also Rolo and Orange did apparently outrank the swords in the black knights as Rolo overrode an order of theirs to a soldier after the massacre. Also it was pretty clear that the pilot who transmitted the information to Asahina was also broadcasting to her. Tohdoh was seen think about it and what Assahina had said before the meeting but the killing of his top soldiers probably did factor more into it. Finally Diethard did stay loyal because he had suspect that Zero was lying and being underhanded since he blew up General Katase but for some reason he was the one they put all the blame for the coup on.
*** Schneizel didn't have proof Geass existed aside from that recording, and the recording did not go into detail about it. Lelouch being a prince is entirely word of mouth. Villetta didn't have a shred of proof, unless she had a file cabinet in those fishnet stockings of hers. Ohgi believed her on her word alone, which makes him an idiot. The other files were nothing but sensible guesswork (inaccurate sensible guesswork I might add, as they didn't know the truth behind the JLF deaths for starters). The pilot who gave Asahina that data gave it to Asahina alone. Chiba was completely uninvolved. It's a complete fabrication to claim otherwise. Finally, no one pinned the blame on Diethard. Ohgi got the blame because he led the charge. You asked why people blame Ohgi? It's because without him Schneizel's bogus claims would not have moved the Black Knights an inch. Ohgi came in, whipped from the moment he laid eyes on Villetta, and single-handedly made everyone believe Schneizel's unreasonable claims. Without him, it would have never happened.
*** Not to mention that Villetta watching over Lelouch should cast an unfavorable light over her, since she held him back from helping the Black Knights until he blackmailed her. On top of that, she might have known about Lelouch's [[ItOnlyWorksOnce once per person limitation on his Geass]]. Which makes her incredibly untrustworthy.
*** I should point out that Asahina sent the data to Tohdoh and Chiba's Knightmares, and after Zero vanishing during both battles for Tokyo, though in the second case it was because he was being tag teamed by two Knights of Round and four elite pilots until Kallen saved him. Schneizel also said that there was a recording of Zero knowing about the FLEIJA, which while true, was an absurd claim as no weapon of that power had ever been used before, and the idea that it would authorised to be used in an ally city was a level of heartlessness that exceeds anything done in the series before that. Oh, and he didn't have the latter recording, nor did he have Suzaku verify, as that would result in Suzaku admitting that the next part of the former recording was realising that Lelouch DIDN'T do it. And Lelouch's voice is different to Zero's, so they shouldn't have been able to know whether or not it was a fake. And the recording that Schneizel gave said nothing about what Lelouch's powers did, only that he used them. And Schneizel's dossiers of people Lelouch used Geass on was surprisingly accurate, but either stolen from the Emperor, or magically summoned. Either way, the information bared research to validate it, but they certainly shouldn't have tried to execute him so quickly - especially not without input from their other two bosses, Kaguya and Xingke.
*** Lelouch didn't even believe Suzaku at that moment, though, because of the perceived betrayal.
*** There's nothing showing that Chiba got the data, just Tohdoh, and he never brings it up. Zero doesn't vanish, either. The whole time he's calling for help because people keep pinning him down and backup never comes (or Tamaki comes, which is just as useless).
* For R2 Episode 21, just how did Nunnally's being blind and cripple happen, exactly? Marianne was shot during the night, and V.V. calls his buddies to set it up so that Nunnally's the 'witness' to the 'terrorist attack', but it's not like they can reanimate Marianne's dead corpse so that this happens somewhat genuinely (what with Marianne on top of Nunnally as if shielding her and all), and if they drag Nunnally to the scene to play the 'witness' she's ''obviously'' gonna know something's up. Charles isn't aware at that point that his wife got attacked by V.V. so he wouldn't use the mindwipe on Nunnally to make everything fit. With all that in mind, here's what I ''think'' might have gone down: after V.V. shoots Marianne, to set Nunnally up as a witness, they just let her stumble on the scene of her mom on the stairs during the morning. I'm guessing Nunnally tries to pick Marianne up as best as she can at this point, when the windows get shot through (conveniently moving in a straight path across the steps rather than up and down, since the guards are already dead), leaving her cripple with Marianne lying on top of her. Then Lelouch runs in a second too late, sees the aftermath, and doesn't know what the hell. Fast forward to the hospital. Charles comes to visit Nunnally, and she tells him that she found Marianne dead already before anything. Charles figures V.V. had a hand in it, ''then'' he rewrites Nunna's memory to make her think she was with her mother during the 'terrorist attack', ensuring that V.V. doesn't know that Charles knows that V.V. killed Marianne. and oh yeah, Lelouch comes to visit Nunnally later.
** This troper always figured that it never happened during the day. When V.V. told him that Marianne was dead (you can't hide that for long), Charles went in and edited a bunch of memories to make up the daytime scene out of scratch. Later on (or earlier), Marianne contacted him and told him what was up.
** Actually, V.V. acted like he'd just "heard" about it later, so he couldn't have told Charles in the first place. This troper figured someone else (the guards, perhaps) heard the commotion, went inside, and went for the Emperor. Charles then took Nunnally and Lelouch and rewrote their memories so that they believed they'd watched their mother die. He also rewrote the guards' memories, and possibly Cornelia's.
** It went down like so. First, V.V. arranges the meeting with Marianne. Only two guards show up because Marianne sent the rest away and these stragglers didn't pay attention. V.V.'s very existence is a secret, after all. It's the middle of the night, so no one was around to hear him gun them down, except Anya. V.V. then arranged for Nunnally to be brought in, stuffed under her mother's dying body, then woken up rather violently by having her legs shot to hell in the crossfire. This was what he meant by "have Nunnally be the witness." As far as she knows, she was asleep in her mother's arms when everything went crazy. The fuckload of bullets used were also loud enough to start attracting attention. Lelouch and everyone else shows up, sees the faked scene, and V.V.'s complicity in the act is supposedly erased. But it's not, because Marianne took Anya as a SoulJar and told Charles. Now recognizing V.V.'s obsession, Charles rewrites Nunnally's memories to make her blind and probably remove any inconsistencies in the murder setup (or just any memories of the murder scene, other than the knowledge of it happening). No need with Lelouch, he saw what he was supposed to. Same with the guards. Then they're sent off to Japan just so V.V. won't get any bright ideas.
*** Actually, Charles also erases their memories of Anya, and Anya's memories of them, since Marianne doesn't seem able to take permanent control. Of course, that results in large parts of Anya's memories vanishing as an unintended side-effect. Hence why Lelouch has no idea of how or why Anya has a photo of him.
* Why did Marianne and Charles blind and cripple Nunnally in the first place? Why didn't they just change their memory?
** They blinded her as a believable way to deflect suspicion from V.V. that she might have seen through the act. A blind girl isn't going to be deciphering weird details from the murder.
*** One of the novels apparently suggests that it was to make her LivingLieDetector abilities more effective by forcing her to rely on and strengthen her other senses.
*** On the other hand, it may not have been expected. Anya's memory loss seems a lot worse than they may have intended, as well.
** Also, they probably counted on Lelouch's over-protective nature towards her, which for all we know is likely to have been there from the start, making him keep close to Nunnally instead of wandering off to the [[MemeticMutation momeland]] to figure out what's up.
* For the Nunnally Hostage episode, why the heck did Lelouch not just use C.C. in the first place? Why go through all the mind wiping stuff? Also, why didn't Suzaku think it slightly odd that Lelouch's sister was taken hostage by an insane, mind-reading man?
** Because then the entire episode would be spent with Lelouch explaining to Suzaku just WHY he sent a green-haired chick (who has just as little a connection to them as Mao) off to fight what is essentially his battle. As strange as it would be for Nunnally to be taken hostage by an insane mind-reading man, it's not as if Suzaku is actually ''informed'' of it. All he knows is that Mao's a psychopath (and it's not like C.C. knows how to play chess...).
*** You are both forgetting that C.C. was ''in China'' at the time. She came back by the end of the episode. But Lelouch ''didn't know that''.
*** Actually, C.C. didn't go to China. She apparently realised that Mao was around and made her way back to confront him, and since Lelouch didn't know, Mao couldn't stop her. I don't think she expected Lelouch to beat Mao, and it was pure luck that he did - and either way, Mao nearly escaped.
* How come nobody realized that Lelouch and Nunnally Lamperouge looked exactly like and were the same age as a prince and princess who had disappeared during the war. They did not even change their first names yet nobody put the pieces together.
** Lelouch mentions the Ashfords "sheltering" them. Presumably, they were kept away from other people for a few years. (That would be a really lonely few years, to just have each other and Milly for company.) Probably until they started high school.
*** Actually, according to the Sound Dramas, Lelouch and Nunnally don't go to Ashford for several years after the invasion - Lelouch is said to be in mid-puberty, and Japan is conquered when Lelouch is 10.
** Euphemia does recognize Lelouch and Nunally as soon as she lays eyes on them. As for why nobody else does, Lelouch seems to have been a minor prince, and considering how many kids Charles would be able to have with 108 concubines, it's doubtful anybody knows them all by sight. It's worth noting that early in the series, Euphie is able to travel incognito without too much trouble despite being a far more important person than Lelouch; given that, it's reasonable to assume most people simply don't know what those dead kids looked like.
*** Actually, Euphemia doesn't recognise Lelouch when she lays her eyes on him, she's long suspected his identity, and his hair and eye colour only confirm it. Lelouch!Alive + Brown haired blind girl in wheelchair = high chances of Nunnally. Euphemia did have to ask before she was sure in the latter case.
** In the dub version Nunnally says that she is 87th in line to the throne. No one's going to remember 87th anything, trust me.
*** True. The only characters who get recognized are Clovis (3rd prince and Viceroy of Area 11), Schneizel (Prime Minister, genius strategist, and 2nd Prince), Odysseus (1st Prince so Heir Apparent), Cornelia (2nd Princess, practically general of the army, and new Viceroy of Area 11), and when Euphemia gets recognized before becoming Sub Viceroy she is only recognized by Lloyd (a nobleman) and the Pureblood Faction (all made up of extreme purists, knights, and nobility).
*** It seems that Lelouch and Nunnally were major enough to warrant their rather high status (out of 108 consorts and their children, 11th Prince and Princess is still pretty damn high, even if they're only 17th and 87th in the actual succession. Keep in mind that this is what Nunnally says ''after'' she's reinstated, no word on her position before she was exiled). That being said, 11th Prince is still pretty low when compared to Schneizel or Cornelia. Odds are, they were at the mid-level of importance: They won't be recognized on sight after seven years, but Lelouch's name and status is enough to get him recognized when he [[spoiler:seizes the throne]], and informs Jeremiah of who he is in R2. Also keep in mind that not too many people have actually seen what Lulu and Nunna looked like as kids. The student council would have no pictures to compare with, and the only painting of the two and Marianne that was shown was part of Clovis' private collection, rather than at his memorial museum. It wasn't until Anya showed up with her picture in R2 that there was any photographic evidence in front of Lelouch that showed his resemblance to the dead Prince. Besides, while the anime showed Lelouch as changing little, in reality his appearance probably matured more than we realize: the anime simply can't show it. The same reasoning explains why Mao and Nina both seem to look strange compared to the other characters, and why Kallen could pass for two nationalities: the anime's visual constraints don't do the characters' appearances justice.
* How does everyone know how to pilot HumongousMecha? It's shown to all be hand controls, and the level of movement they're getting out of those things is pretty astounding. Shouldn't they be pretty much just falling over the first time they get in?
** This is a genre quirk. Everybody ''knows'' that the control systems for HumongousMecha are ridiculous. The closest you can get to plausibility is ''MacrossFrontier's'' slave system, and even that is kind of a wash. As ''TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' points out, mecha work by "moving these handles - and it goes!". As to your ''other'' question, Lelouch is a trained pilot. He learned by using his mom's old mecha to make pizzas at school festivals.
** I don't know if video games/computer games exist in-universe, but if they did, it wouldn't be surprising if they centered around HumongousMecha (and pizza-making).
** It's mentioned that Suzaku, at least, had done practice runs on Knightmare simulators before being put in the Lancelot.
*** That wouldn't work, for the same reason that playing a FlightSim very well doesn't make you able to fly a plane.
*** Um... is someone gonna tell this guy about modern flight schools? 'cause...
*** Flight schools don't train people using commercial video games.
*** And OBVIOUSLY, Suzaku would have been trained using a military simulator, since he IS a soldier, and it's not completely impossible for it to be part of basic training.
** Also, I just assumed that most of the Britannian Royalty are trained to pilot HumongousMecha (though not necessarily fight) as sort of training and to look good in Chuck's eyes. Even Euphie knew how to pilot one of those things.
** Lloyd actually tossed a manual to Suzaku...who read the 1000 page beast in a couple of hours and comprehended it all. Super technology: Inputting knowledge straight into your brain!
*** That's somewhat odd considering how BookDumb he is. Then again, in one of the audio dramas, he's able to drive a car just by playing video games.
*** It might be just barely plausible that Suzaku could know how to pilot one but it beggars belief to claim that a school girl turned terrorist would have the slightest idea how to use them. Equally puzzling is how the heck Ohgi's group managed to actually get a Knightmare in the first place, according to one of the members they could barely get a bike before Lelouch took over.
*** Ohgi's cell was supplied by Kyoto, same as most terrorist groups. The guy was generalizing. It's far more plausible for Kallen, who's cell is being supplied with weapons, to be taught to pilot a Knightmare than Suzaku, who outright cannot do so, to be given the same training.
*** The majority of their weapons are ineffectual rocket launchers. This opens up the even bigger question of why Kallen was still with Ohgi's group if Kirihara's organization had given her any training.
*** Kirihara's organization supplied terrorist groups. It was not a terrorist group itself. There's no reason for her to join them when they aren't actually doing any fighting. Her group got the short end of the stick as far as supplies went, but it's still something.
*** Plus they apparently had the Glasgow for a while. She could have just learnt via trial and error.
* The OpeningMonologue makes a big deal about how the Britannian Empire has suppressed all Japanese culture. Why, then, is the school system so very like the Japanese school system and not at all like the British system?
** This is fairly common, since the Writer and director don't know American or British culture than they just use Japanese culture and combine it with the British culture of the 1800's. OutlawStar and Gundam Wing did this as well
** For the same reason everyone speaks in Japanese instead of English.
*** But they don't speak Japanese. [[TranslationConvention They speak English which is presented as Japanese]].
*** That doesn't explain the [[GratuitousEnglish accents]].
** It was mentioned at one point that the Ashford Academy is a liberal school, implying that it is not like a typical Britannian school. Considering that Grandpa Ashford is a dissident who has fallen from grace in Britannian society, it does not seem unlikely that he would experiment with a different educational system, even with that of a recently subjugated colony. What bugged this troper more is the fact that an elitist dictatorship even allows a political outcast to run an elite educational institution.
*** Capitalism. Plus, they don't expect ''Barons'' or ''Dukes'' to run schools - they only expect to send their children to schools where said nobles send their children. Plus, many of the students weren't nobles themselves - Nina and Shirley clearly aren't, and Rivalz is on the outs with his noble parents.
* Can anyone explain Suzaku's thought process? Even when he's explicitly ordered to kill unresisting people, and he's well aware the military he's in has killed thousands of civilians, he maintains an "it will all be fine as long as I remain a spineless wimp" attitude. However, he gets furious at Zero for killing soldiers, and it mostly seems like he's objecting to Zero's panache and showmanship. Is a blase attitude towards genocide simply a part of the Japanese mindset, so much so that no one would even think about it?
** He seems to believe that his intent to change the system from within justifies any actions he takes as part of that system.
** Three words: ChronicBackstabbingDisorder. Both Bismarck and Kanon commented that he is someone who constantly betray to go up in ranks.
*** Which isn't true, but it does seem that way. Suzaku was more loyal to Lelouch from the start, and he becomes a Round, not out of treachery, but out of revenge for Euphemia's murder, and his apparent betrayal of the Japanese is an unfortunate misunderstanding that Lelouch accidentally sets in motion.
** It could be a simple case of cognitive dissonance. Mao pointed out that most of Suzaku's ideals are the cause of him trying to retroactively justify murdering his father to save Japan from total annihilation. Though it's true that the subsequent surrender saved Japan's infrastructure and possibly hundreds of lives from being nuked by Britannia, the means he used to were so abhorrent to him that he tries to absolve himself of the guilt by claiming that the means are as important as the end result. Unfortunately, Mao also pointed out that he has an unconscious desire to be punished for the murder which manifests itself as a death wish. Piloting the Lancelot as he does (charging straight into battle and willing to die to take Zero with him) is possibly the most dangerous thing he could do short of running around with knives. Let alone change the system, Suzaku has enough problems living with himself, which is why he's a very tragic character to this Troper...at least until R2 came around.
** Well, Suzaku seems to take the stance that rebelling against the government is just plain wrong. With that stance, the only real way to enact change is to change the government from within by joining it and getting high enough in it to make those changes. Of course, given that in the case of Britannia that pretty much means becoming emperor, that's more or less impossible, but Suzaku seems to believe that he can enact positive changes by working from within. He certainly manages to move up to a fairly high place in the government, so he's able to do ''something'' at least. In any case, because he takes the stance that rebelling against the government is wrong, that basically means that everything Lelouch does against the government is wrong pretty much regardless. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that everything that the government does is right (after all, he ''is'' looking to change it) and he definitely isn't happy about it at times (like when he's ordered to kill the JLF soldiers unconditionally in episode 13 of R1), but for the most part, he does what he's told - probably because that's the only way to get high enough up to enact real changes. However, the farther along we get into Code Geass and the more angry he gets about what Lelouch/Zero is up to, the less rational he seems to become. And of course, the less rational he is, the more likely it is for his reasons for doing what he's doing to conflict with what he's actually doing. His anger at Lelouch for [[spoiler:Euphemia's death]] in particular seems to make him act irrationally - and thus less likely to follow any sane train of thought. Really, Suzaku's basic premise seems to be that it's wrong to rebel against the government, so you have to work within the government and do what you can to change it (even if that means some dirty work - though at times he seems to think that dirty work is at least ''somewhat'' justified by the fact that it's the government doing it). However, as the series moves along, his thought process seems to become less rational due to his anger. In the end, I think that the basic idea of what he's up to is at least fairly clear but that his anger leads him to act less rationally and thus follow his basic principles less well as the series progresses.
** Also, from the standpoint of deaths, most deaths which occur in Code Geass occur because the rebels, well, rebel, and the Britannians stop them. If the rebels weren't rebelling, then the Britannians wouldn't have to fight them and you wouldn't have so many people dying. As such, Suzaku could work within the government to enact change without having to kill people. The fact that Lelouch and his compatriots are fighting the Britannians is what is resulting in so many deaths. So, from Suzaku's point of view, the rebels are just making things worse and they need to be stopped. If they didn't fight, he wouldn't have to either. So, you could argue that Suzaku thinks that everything is the rebels' fault and that he has to do whatever he can to stop them. And since they're rebelling - and thus breaking the law - he feels totally justified in fighting them. Of course, the more powerful and extreme Zero and the Black Knights become, the more powerful and extreme he has to be to stop them, so it just gets worse, but there's nothing that he can really do about that except either give up and join them [[spoiler:(which is ''sort of'' what he did by joining up with Lelouch in the end, though since Lelouch became emperor and no longer a rebel, it's not quite the same...)]] or defeat them (which is what he's pretty much always trying to do).
*** The funny thing about that is that it's because of the rebellion that Suzaku is able to rise in the ranks. An "Eleven" could never get as high as he did if he wasn't so valuable fighting against a threat to the Empire as great as Zero and his Black Knights.
*** On top of that, when left to their own devices, the Britannians would unconditionally turn a blind eye to injustices committed against Numbers, no matter how heinous. The [[SocialDarwinist Social Darwinistic]] nature of the empire actually made any abuse towards them legal.
** Simple. Suzaku is mostly a fairly ordinary KnightTemplar. He believes that the law is absolute and the established order is paramount. But he's somewhat more sympathetic and less unfeeling and cold than the average crusader type.
** At least in the conclusion of the first season, and through the whole of R2, Suzaku opposes Lelouch/Zero because he is of the rather unorthodox opinion that using psychic powers to violate the wills and minds of other human beings is a bad thing. Some people just don't have the stomach for human slavery, I guess.
*** Don't be sarcastic. At first, Lelouch is unwilling to go so far as human slavery - at least without mercy-killing them when he's done. It takes a lot of people he cares for dying before he loses enough morals to do that.
*** Or rather, him being so far gone after the betrayal that he's looking to end his life that it no longer makes any real difference.
* During Lelouch's second chess match with Mao, Mao has it set up so that if the scale tips fully to Lelouch's side (because of the chess pieces he captures), the bomb over Nunnally will be disarmed. Why the heck doesn't Lelouch just physically push down his side of the scale to disarm the bomb, then punch Mao in the face? For someone who's killed countless people, cheating at a chess game would be something he'd do. Even if he doesn't start off with that, why wouldn't he do it at the end of the game when Mao wins and throws the last chess piece on his own side (to set off the bomb)?
** Who's to say that Mao didn't have the scales rigged to explode even if Lelouch won anyway?
** Come to think of it, how on earth did Mao set that bomb up on his own? It's ridiculously heavy and extremely unstable. I mean, it explodes if you mess up it's swinging. How could he possibly have gotten it up there?
*** He probably used his telepathy to learn it from a demolitions expert.
*** It's not so much how he learned, as how he managed to actually set it up. Unless he has a crane hidden away someplace, he couldn't hoist a 1000 pound bomb (let alone a super-unstable one) up to where he did.
*** This is the same guy who has a chainsaw and (if you wanna believe he knows what he's talking about) a house in ''Australia'' and so he's demonstrated a remarkable ability to pull things out of his ass for the sake of teh dramaz.
*** Also, ''punch'' Mao? This is Lelouch we're talking about here. He can't even land a punch on Mao after the latter is weakened and disoriented not five minutes later.
*** Still, it's not as if it's physically impossible or something.
** Mao would simply see that Lelouch was planning on messing with the scale and beat him to the punch...and if you think Lelouch would cheat like that, then you really misunderstand his character.
** Let's not forget that Mao had a gun, and Lelouch didn't.
* Where did we get the spelling "C.C."? I ask merely for curiosity.
** It is from an arcane source known only as "the credits".
** Even without going to the credits, I think in episode two or three (whichever C.C started living with Lelouch) Nunnaly says something like "What a strange, C.C. only going by her initals," even though she says C2 (C^2 ?), too...
* Here's a question that anyone who wears contact lenses will be able to answer: how long did it take you to learn how to put in and take out a contact lens in as much time as it takes Lelouch in ''R2''?
** It's Main/AwesomenessByAnalysis. Don't ask.
** While us normal folk have to take time to hold our eyelids open and try to grab at our lenses, Lelouch has the luxury of having GIANT ANIME EYES, so he doesn't have these problems.
** Another thing that bugged me was where does his lens go when he removes it (in a truly dramatic fashion)? Come think of it, I've never seen it after CC initially gave it to him...
*** Doesn't he just balance them on his finger while going about his order?
** Here's an idea: we've seen him Geass Shirley twice, the second time after the initial Geass was neutralized (you can see the rim around her irises; it took effect, she just couldn't act on it), he could've had Jeremiah un-Geass him then Geassed himself to "be overly dramatic with everything you do regarding your contact lenses".
*** Hey. Lelouch prefers to use skill more than Geass whenever possible. He'd prefer to train for hours to perfect it, rather than rely on Geass.
* Where exactly did Lelouch get the Zero costume? It has an ornate helmet with an automatic mechanism which opens up for the left eye, meaning it's not exactly something he bought from a shop. He procured it ''less than a week'' after he got the Geass. How exactly is he keeping it clean, since his maid has never seen it?
** It's shown explicitly that he Geassed someone to custom-make it for him, and then forget about making it/destroy all evidence it was made. Presumably he cleans it himself or CC does it. Episode 4: His Name is Zero. It was right before he made his debut as Zero.
*** OHHH, so that's what that man was designing...[[CompletelyMissingThePoint I thought Lelouch acquired the Guren from that guy]]
*** Actually, I do completely get the point, but I thought that's the guy he got the big mobile base from.
* If Britannia is the unholy union between U.K and America why is there nobody wearing a cowboy hat and a monocle, we occasionally see someone bust out the monocle but never with a cowboy hat.
** If this troper remembers correctly, Britannia settled the U.S, but there was no revolution, meaning that it essentially got annexed into the Britannian Empire when Britannia decided to [[PinkyAndTheBrain try to take over the world!]]
*** According to the official backstory, American Revolution never got off the ground because the British monarchy bribed Benjamen Franklin. When, later, Britannia got into a war with Europe and lost, the government fled to America and conquered it.
*** Bribed Benjamen Franklin? I think you mean: Geassed Benjamin Franklin.
*** No, he means bribed. There's no indication they had Geass way back then.
*** acctualy geass did exist back then, how old is c.c.? what about the immortal nun (who lived long nuf to go batshit insane)? geass may not have been controlled by britannia, but it existed.
*** The real Benjamin Franklin was an uber-patriot. Unless his Geass-Verse personality was completely different it makes much more sense to assume that the bribe was a lie to hide the existance of Geass. As the discusison on the Napoleonic Wars on this page mentions the implication in Geass being 'The power of the king' is that many important people have had it and that most of the divergences from the real world were caused by it.
*** Always possible, I'll admit, but it's a common saying that every man has his price. Maybe Britannia just isn't as cheap.
*** Money isn't the only way to bribe people! Just look at how they got Suzaku to join and you might figure out how Franklin may have turned in this universe.
*** The history segments in the Code Geass [=DVDs=] (Japanese?) claim that C.C. was around then and knew Benjamin personally. "After all, Ben was a kind man who loved research more than battles... much too kind, really."
* I don't understand exactly the idea with the Britannian Empire being the initial developers of the mecha used in the series. Apart from the likes of Transformers and possibly BattleTech, the British and the Americans have never been particularly enchanted towards the idea of the gigantic humanoid-shaped robotic war machine. The closest that science fiction in America gets towards the mecha is usually the likes of the "Starship Troopers" style battlesuit rather than the full-sized mecha.
** It's been well established that the Code Geass world is vastly different from our own based on a number of seemingly small historical differences, so it wouldn't be hard to imagine people getting crazy ideas about giant mecha. Plus, with the discovery of Sakuradite and its massive energy output, it gave scientists the resources to just totally let go.
** From what I've read, The idea started from when an ejection seat on more traditional vehicles was created, that was eventually fitted with robotic legs to help in escaping. Scientists eventually just took that idea to its [[FridgeLogic logical conclusion]].
** This is a world in which Japan is part of the British Empire, the EU was founded in the 19th century, and immortals can give people magic eye powers. It's entirely possible someone outside Japan got the idea. Come to think of it, ''StarWars'' had mecha in it in the real world and that's 100% American.
*** Try and tell me that again after you look at the lightsaber fights. Lucas is 100% weeaboo.
** Actually, some guy made a real life HumongousMecha, and so far the only use he can think of for it is to fight other such mechs for entertainment. Oh, yeah, back to the point, the guy's American, so it's more likely than you think.
* Why did Zero have to kidnap the Empress? Couldn't he have just worked with Xingke from the start rather than piss off all three (Britannia, Eunuch's faction, and Xingke's faction) warring factions at once? If he had worked together with Xingke, he could have easily overcome the Eunuchs, rather than that whole drawn out fight, and Britannia would have no excuse to interfere in a civil war (they only interfered because the Black Knights were considered terrorists, they Britannians withdrew the second it became a civil war.)
** There were fundamental differences between their causes. Xingke was wholly concerned with the Empress and that was it. There were two logical outcomes without Lelouch's interference: A) Xingke would have failed, resulting in the Eunuchs selling out to the Britannians; or B) Xingke would have succeeded, and China would immediately become isolationist. Xingke was far too proud to deal with the Black Knights, and any new government established under him would not have dealt with them. What Lelouch accomplished by striking first was getting Xingke to prove he was incapable of standing by himself. Lelouch had to save him, which proved that they had to work together.
*** But after the first Knightmare fight between China and the Black Knights (the one where Kallen gets captured) Lelouch thinks to himself that he should've killed Xingke when he had the chance. That kind of undermines the working together idea.
*** Well, of course. Kallen is far more important to Lelouch than Xingke was, no matter who skilled and useful he was.
*** Lelouch's original intention was to use the Empress to gain the people's support. He does try to convince Xingke that he couldn't do so himself (Lelouch makes the reference to while kidnapping her). As is common for this show, it's only when Xingke pulls some SuperPrototype out of nowhere does Lelouch regret not having done a better job of dealing with him. Still, getting Xingke as an ally worked as a backup plan. The main point is that Xingke would not have cooperated before being shown his own weakness, and in a scenario where he successfully kidnapped the Empress instead of Lelouch, Britannia would have laid waste to China.
* Why is the heavily atheist empire on the show called the ''Holy'' Empire of Britannia?
** "Shinsei Britannia Teikoku" certainly seems to resemble the description used for the Holy Roman Empire (Shinsei Roma Teikoku). However, shinsei, in and of itself, can mean holiness, sacredness, or "dignity". Most likely, the description is just meant to imply that Britannia is more civilized than the other major powers.
** ''Where'' do people keep getting the atheism from? From ''where'', besides the Emperor's constant speeches about equality being a sin and the world being full of lies, do you get that atheism is an institutional policy for said Holy Empire? If you can provide me the quotes, it's probably just an institutional relic of a name.
*** The Emperor's attitude towards equality and the world have nothing to do with religion, or the lack thereof.
*** Sure it does. If you say something (in this case, equality) is a sin, that implies a religious basis of judgment, does it not?
*** Not necessarily; the term sin can be and is used secularly to refer to any perceived evil, and this seems to be especially prevalent in Japan. It implies a value judgement, but not necessarily a religious one. As for the religious leanings of the Brittanian empire, it's safe to say that it does not prohibit religion (you'll notice that Ashford academy has a chapel, which is where Mao has his game of chess with Lelouch), but Emperor Charles himself, at least, is anti-theistic. His master plan absolutely reeks of RageAgainstTheHeavens, and if IIRC he at one point declares the Ten Commandments to be among the lies that fill the world (so ''at the very least'' he personally is anti-Christian).
** For some reason, this troper seems to remember reading either the word "atheism" or "atheist" at least once in a subbed version of the show. The word was a reference to Britannia but as said troper has no idea just which episode it came from, she is now considering the possibility that she imagined it...Still, surely it's a little odd that they are the "Holy" Empire - they're not Christians (as one might expect from the descendants of parallel-world Britons) and they don't seem to follow any other religion as a nation. Why is this?
** The historical Holy Roman Empire warred and clashed often with the Roman church I recall.
*** That's not quite the same - they actually had a religion (which was in most parts considered Roman Catholic anyways but that's neither here nor there) and one gets the impression they called themselves the Holy Roman Empire partially because they believed theirs was right. What religion is there in Britannia?
*** You have to remember that the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire.
*** The show is set in 2012. Just because it was initially a heavily religious empire does not mean that it is one currently. Probably there are a few Christian relics like the very name of the empire or the coronation ceremonies of the emperor.
*** Note that Britannia was formed when Julius Caesar's armies were repelled by a Celtic super king, around 50 BC. It wouldn't really make sense for Britannia to adopt a "foreign religion", as Christianity would have been seen, over three hundred years later. Also, the series is technically set in 1967, which is 2017 years after the Britannian empire was formed (A.T.B. 2017).
*** Actually, while they say that is so, the Britannian Empire was founded some three or four hundred years prior, and the Celtic super king, who may or may not have existed, was declared to exist in order to validate the Britannian Royal Family's claim to the throne. It's propaganda.
** Cornelia pretty much stated this out loud when she met VV.
** Most of the people seem to be Catholic (see Mr Fennette's funeral). It's probably just a facade on the part of the rulers.
** It's probably more along the lines of "Rule of Cool".
** Wouldn't the fact that Emperor Charles is trying to kill God imply he believes one exists?
*** Yes. Atheism is nothing more than the complete and utter lack of belief in any higher power or afterlife. No theistic leanings whatsoever. Since he wants to kill a God, he believes in it. Ta-da, he ain't an atheist.
*** True, but that doesn't make much of a difference. There are real atheists today who don't merely reject faith, but consider the portrayals of God/gods in various religions (particularly Christianity) to be evil and unfit for worship anyway. Even if you could prove the existence of a deity to these people, they may acknowledge its existence but still wouldn't worship it, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to try a deicide plot like Emperor Charles's. These people don't so much think that belief in and worship of gods is ''logically untenable'' so much as ''morally repugnant.'' It's likely that Charles, if he hadn't found proof of the existence of "gods" through his research of Geass, would be just such an atheist. And even if he does personally acknowledge the ''existence'' of a deity, his hatred of it would be all the more motivation to create legal injunctions against worship.
*** Wow, [[YouKeepUsingThatWord way to misappropriate words.]] That's a PERFECT definition of misotheism, but a terrible one for atheism.
** ''Holy Empire of Britannia'' is a reference to the ''Holy Roman Empire'', and is used to denote that Britain rebuilt on the other side of the Atlantic, but isn't really very British anymore, as far as the islands themselves are concerned. It does contain much alternate-history british culture, though. As for religion, you can't just go by several characters to determine the religion of the people. Christianity still took root in Scandinavia, Germany, and many parts of Eastern Europe that weren't part of the Roman Empire, so it's not much of a stretch to assume that it took root in Britannia. However, it could have several religions: I'd guess Christianity, Judaism, and Celtic Polytheism. Christianity is probably based on Anglicanism and the Celtic Catholic Church (see [[spoiler:Shirley's and her dad's funerals]]). The polytheism is likely where the references to the "gods" comes in (even though it refers to the collective unconsciousness of mankind). Charles was being metaphorical. In the end, he probably didn't care: Chuck believes in Chuck, Cornelia believes in her own strength, etc.
** In the Nightmare of Nunnally manga, the Emperor is [[spoiler:Pope of the Geass Order]], and [[spoiler:stages a coup to install the cardinals as area governors]], which might explain the religious aspect of it. Then again, [[spoiler:the name changes from the "Holy Britannian Empire" to the "Holy Faith Nation of Eden Vital"]]
*** In Charles' speech after Garma Zabi's, oops, I mean Prince Clovis' death he specifically quotes some of The Ten Commandments exactly and says they are lies.
** I'm wondering why no one stated that in episode 10, before the battle of Narita, there is a dialogue between Lelouch and C.C. and in the subbed version C.C. asks why Lelouch changed his family surname, but not his christian name Lelouch. This implies he / his family and therefore the royal britannian family is christian.
*** Not really. Though a very odd choice of words, a christian name, by definition (one of them anyway), refers to a person's first name. It doesn't imply and religious affiliation.
*** That must be a sub or a fansub, since my recollection of the dub doesn't use the term "Christian name", going for the more common, blander designations of "first" and "surname".
* In episode 15 of R2, Why in the world did Lelouch not just get his mech and beam spam his dad? I don't care if Charles is immortal, a beam spam is going to slow down anyone. From a more practical standpoint, being in the mech would have protected him from Charles' Geass, sinse there's no direct eye contact. And while he did eventually get back in it, there's still no reason why he couldn't have done it then, or at least used a simple punch or kick to incapacitate him temporarily.
** Besides the fact that Lelouch was seriously freaking out when Charles stood back up? You seriously think that he has the physical ability to incapacitate that massive ape with a punch or kick?
*** He ''meant'' kick him using Shinkirou.
*** Presumably because broadcast regulations wouldn't allow them to show Charlie being stomped into a fine paste (which would really test the limits of Code regeneration)
** Do you think you would be able to climb into the cockpit of your mecha before Emperor Charles pulled out that gun he had in his coat and shot you in the chest?
* Episode 18 of R2. [[DisContinuity 'Nuff said]].
** That episode was great. It wasn't even the Main/DiabolusExMachina from the end of the last season. Everything that happened in it was foreshadowed adequately. Though, Suzaku has ''really bad aim''.
*** You know, if his aim was good and it hit Kallen, I'm pretty sure he'd be caught in Freya's blast radius and become very dead, so I'm a bit hesitant to attribute that whole thing on his "Live" Geass, unless he meant for Kallen to dodge it in the first place.
*** So you're saying Suzaku ''didn't'' miss?
*** I'm not sure, because not missing Kallen would've meant mean death.
*** I don't think Suzaku missed either. Geass in general and "live on" in particular are able to use a person's knowledge and skills. Under-Geass Suzaku didn't shoot the nuke at Kallen because he knows that hitting a tactical target (one EXTREMELY close range Knightmare) with a strategic weapon won't let him live. However, demonstrating the monstrous power of this as-yet-unused weapon and taking out some other Black Knights would.
* Why do people hate Suzaku so frigging much? The person he is being a dick to ''killed his girlfriend after turning her into a monster''. Why should he treat Lelouch with anything approaching respect and affection after the ''mind rape and execution''? Gee, I guess he's a terrible person for turning in his so-called "best friend", the guy who he thinks ''orders genocide for his own gains'', to get a promotion so he can help people. He could have ''killed'' Lelouch and he would have been perfectly justified in his actions! It's not like Lelouch ever tried to explain that the whole Euphinator thing was an accident, either, so to Suzaku he's a ''self-admitted mind-raping bastard''.
** One, Geassing her was an accident. Two, killing her was the solution. Three, the reason why Lelouch didn't bother explaining himself for the whole Euphie thing is quite simply common sense. 'I forgot my Geass was on' is ''never'' a good excuse for ''ANYTHING''.
*** That, and he turned over Lelouch over to the man who turned on Lelouch himself and made him into what he was, Charles, who then proceeded to screw Lelouch even worse not only by separating Nunnally from him and planning to use her as a hostage against him, but also rewriting the memories of Nunnally, Marianne, the Zero persona being his own, and that he was ever part of the Britannian family to begin with, all of which were defining traits behind his own existence, into obscurity. Suzaku had reason to be angry with Lelouch, but trusting the person responsible for not only much of Lelouch's and Nunnally's own strife throughout his lifetime, but also the corruption Lelouch, and in his own roundabout way, Suzaku, were trying to fight? Talk about misaimed blame.
** Because essentially Suzaku is willing to work within a hopelessly corrupt and evil system, and is only doing so for the benefit of a small number of people within that system, and that largely only to ease his own conscience. Lelouch admits that he is evil, Suzaku still thinks he is somehow noble.
** I agree with the above opinion and I also want to add that Suzaku also has some selfish, hypocritical thinking going on, yearning for death as some sort of redemption for killing his father and essentially letting the Japanese get screwed over, and then joining those same conquerors who treat his people like crap, all the while saying he'll "change it from within" (I look and look again and see no attempt at the changing, and hell, he now seems to be Japanese only in blood and name).
*** He sees the Knight of One title as his opportunity in R2 to rule over Japan. Not that it excuses the work he does for Britannia as a Knight of the Round in destroying enemies of Britannia.
** Suzaku killed his own father and then helped everyone around him cover it up when he realised things had gotten out of hand when he was ''ten''. And he did this rather than tell the truth and at least ''try'' to finish the work his father had started (which most would think of as being the noble thing to do as he got older). Also, ever since Euphemia died, he seems to have gotten increasingly hypocritical and hard to like...
*** Oddly enough, the positions are reversed in the Suzaku of the Counterattack Manga; Suzaku kills Genbu after telling the Emperor the location of the members of the Japanese government who want to continue the war. In Nightmare of Nunnally, Suzaku doesn't kill Genbu; C.C. does, in order to protect Lelouch and Nunnally. In both versions, Suzaku tends to be more focused on his morals, and is not party to atrocities.
** Not to mention, it's because of Suzaku that ''Japan ended up as Area 11''. You know, back then Premier Kururugi the ONLY one who posed a serious threat to Britannia and he was ready to kill himself and LOTS of people to take the Empire down. That's quite the hard weight on * anyone's * shoulders. Still, people love to forget it because, unlike Lelouch, Suzaku is "not cool enough".
** The way Suzaku is, it's as though he's forgotten his goal, forgotten the views he "so valiantly" holds up and just went off the deep end.
** Three words: ChronicBackstabbingDisorder.
** Then four more words: DracoInLeatherPants. Seems [[FanDumb some people]] can't figure out that Suzaku is the antagonist, so if you want to lionize him you're the one that's leather pantsing.
** And how it's Lelouch NOT a DracoInLeatherPants? Your fixation on Suzaku bering the * ONLY* DILP is ''insane''.
*** Lelouch accomplished world peace. He may have taken monstrous means to achieve it, but he actually created a unified world and accepted punishment by being a permanently despised despot and being killed by his best friend. Suzaku's punishment is to live as the (supposed) hero and savior of the world. Gee, Lelouch really is just as bad as Suzaku.
*** Which doesn't change the fact that he's a DILP as well as Suzaku. They're BOTH DILPs; you just seem to think that the one that's worse than the other having fans makes him the ONLY DILP in the series.
*** In other words, Lelouch succeeded where Suzaku failed. Lelouch and Suzaku are both [[SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes Type IV antiheroes]] ''at absolute best,'' with each spending at least some time at Type V and even outright villainy. They're both NecessarilyEvil [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well Intentioned Extremists]], but where Lelouch tends toward the chaotic end of the scale, Suzaku favors the lawful. Why do more people seem to favor Lelouch? Maybe it's because he actually gets results in the end, where Suzaku just seems to end up doing little more than help the evil empire. Maybe it's because people see Lelouch as more sympathetic due to the story being told predominantly from his side of things. Maybe it's because people just tend to resent authority, and so are more likely to favor the rebel trying to tear it down from the outside over the participant trying to change it from within.
** Also, it doesn't help that Suzaku is so self-righteous, thinking that whatever side HE'S on is the only side that's right. He only sees things in black and white, and the worst part is that the series actually depicts him as being the one that's [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop RIGHT]]. Another thing that is incredibly annoying about him: He constantly owns Lelouch at everything. His mecha is an extreme example of a DeusExMachina, where, no matter how much Lelouch plots and plans strategies, all it has to do is go out and it will be an instant win. It's also incredibly frustrating that the storyline works its way around him illogically just so he can stick around and conquer Lelouch. Example: Lelouch turns into a moron when he's around Suzaku, not using his geass on Suzaku to order him to leave Britannia and live an ordinary life. It doesn't make sense, because, looking at Lelouch's personality normally, that would definitely be in character for him to do.
*** If you'll notice, Lelouch specifically avoids Geassing his friends and was quite unhappy to end up having to Geass Suzaku. On top of that, he didn't even know that Suzaku was the pilot of the Lancelot until episode 17 of R1 - the episode before he Geasses him. And at that point, he was trying to convince Suzaku to join him. So, he never really had the opportunity to Geass Suzaku to get rid of him before he actually knew that Suzaku was a problem.
** Well, first off, Suzaku is the antagonist. That automatically is going to make him at least somewhat disliked. Pretty much regardless of what the protagonist is like or what the antagonist is like, because we expect the protagonist to be the good guy that we support and the antagonist to be the bad guy that we want to fail, we automatically start out willing to give the protagonist the benefit of the doubt while we're hard on the antagonist. So, simply because of their places in the story, we're far more willing to forgive Lelouch and say that what he's doing is necessary while Suzaku is an idiot. So, they're not on a level playing field to begin with. Now, add to that the fact that Suzaku is willingly working for the bad guys who discriminate against everyone who isn't them and are trying to take over the world. That makes Suzaku even less popular. Now add the fact that he keeps getting in Lelouch's way when he's doing cool stuff and we get that much more annoyed with him. Depending on the viewer, these facts alone may be enough to really dislike him, but the real killer is his attitude. He comes across as rather self-righteous in his denunciations of Zero and Zero's methods - in particular the fact that what Zero's up to costs lives - and on top of that, he's killing plenty of people himself. So, it becomes quite easy to view Suzaku as a self-righteous hypocrite. And since Suzaku generally becomes more unreasonable as the show goes on (primarily due to his anger over Lelouch's actions - particularly [[spoiler:the death of Euphemia]]), it becomes that much easier to dislike him. He probably gets more of a bad rap than he deserves, but while he says that he's doing what he's doing for the greater good, he's constantly blocking Lelouch from actually achieving that greater good, and while he's at it, he has an attitude that really rubs people the wrong way. So, it's no wonder that so many people dislike him.
*** There's also how the characters are portrayed in the side materials. A lot of people pay attention to those, and they tend to change many viewers' perceptions of the characters. For example, Clovis was portrayed as a genuinely loving older brother who cared about his siblings and thought that he was doing Lelouch and Nunnally justice with his actions in Japan (state-policy racism + vengeance for dead family will do that to your morals), and also as a ChivalrousPervert, making him ''much'' more sympathetic in the eyes of the fans. The side materials are also credited on this site as one of the main reasons why Clovis won the [[http://code-geass.bandai-ent.com/poll/pollb.php North American popularity poll]] (which, as you'll notice, Suzaku didn't even place on). A similar situation happened with [[EnsembleDarkhorse Jeremiah Gottwald]], who was given a sympathetic treatment in one sound episode where he explained his motivations vis-a-vis Marianne and her children. This, combined with his [[TheWoobie humiliation]] and increasingly over-the-top appearances, made him the most loved character in the show. This despite massacring a ghetto in the first episode. However, getting to the point, Suzaku actually experienced the ''opposite'' treatment by the show. On top of the dickish moves made on-screen in the series proper, side materials actually get into his actions in between R1 and R2: in one picture drama/sound episode Suzaku helps conquer a new area and then finds a little girl in the rubble, after treating her, she finds out that they're Britannian and starts screaming and crying at them about how her father and brother were good people and that the knights murdered them. Maybe it was just me, but it became harder to sympathize with Suzaku after that. Later picture dramas would give us another gem: Suzaku, Scheizel, Kanon, and the Rounds all enjoying a day out at a casino (whilst the Black Knights are, ostensibly at the point in the series, fighting for their lives and exiled en-masse). This, combined with what we know about Lelouch's crappy childhood and the suffering of the other Japanese characters, makes the Black Knights in general and Lelouch in particular look like Woobies compared to the evil decadent Britannians, despite what the entry below would have you believe. From a PR point of view, it's just hard to see Suzaku as the good guy. Not that I think Suzaku is really evil, just doing what he does best: acting on his emotions, in the case of his feelings about Lelouch, anger.
*** Somehow I think the results of that popularity poll have a lot more to do with certain meme producing ImageBoards than side materials. (As for the picture dramas: Interpretations vary. There's at least one person on this wiki who has used that very one as argument for why Gino is a bad person compared to Suzaku - contrasting Gino's "the strong live and the weak die" to Suzaku's "the strong should protect the weak". [[http://kay-willow.livejournal.com/292364.html And different forums]] seem to see Suzaku's actions in it differently.) To sum up my point properly: I don't think anyone has ''really'' had their opinion changed by the spinoff material. People just use it to reinforce what they already believe. If you are inclined to dislike Suzaku, you see it as "Oh look, Suzaku is doing something bad again." If you are inclined to find him sympathetic, you see it as "Oh look, another example of how it really sucks to be Suzaku." Good ol' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias confirmation bias]].
*** I'd call the Picture Dramas [[AllThereInTheManual supplementary and fill in the blanks,]] rather than spinoff material. (The manga and novels are spinoff material.) And I'd say it cuts both ways for Suzaku. What that picture drama did was highlight the early part of his MotiveDecay. And owing much to happening earlier, it was admittedly light compared to the in-series material, especially Turn 14, when Suzaku requests to Nunnally that he be able to interrogate then prisoner Kallen, who she was having a conversation with. He refers to Kallen [[YouAreNumberSix by her prisoner number]], which [[WhatTheHellHero visibly disturbs Nunnally]]. Also note the irony in that the people of his and Kallen's home country, Japan, are called by Numbers. [[ItGotWorse It only gets worse from there]] before Suzaku [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone bottoms out]].
** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirley died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.
*** I can clarify those concerns. And to clarify, it was also because of serendipity, not to mention his role in opposing the rebellion Lelouch started as Zero, that Suzaku was able to get so much leeway. Without the rebellion, Suzaku would have stayed put, more likely than not. More to the point, in light of both of their faults and aside from the typical reasons, Lelouch seems to score more points with the fandom because he actually has a plan, not to mention more overall vision, in that he plans on fixing the world, whereas Suzaku at best cares only about Japan, and usually [[TheFool has no idea of what he's doing]]. Worse, Suzaku himself is one of the biggest [[SpannerInTheWorks spanners]] for Lelouch, ruining the latter's plans when they would otherwise bear fruit, and thus prolonging the conflict. It's not hard to be annoyed on Lelouch's behalf a little more often, in that his plans tend to falter through DiabolusExMachina so often. While it was unfortunate what happened to Euphie, not to mention understandable how it would affect Suzaku, R2 still highlights how far he has jumped off, in that he is helping with Schneizel's EU campaign in hopes of currying favor up at the top. While the goal of getting Japan as a protectorate is a noble one, the means, which come at the expense of other countries, more than negate it. It is true that he didn't drug Kallen, but he only stopped himself because he in his own mind didn't want to be compared to Zero, not because he cared about Kallen. In addition, throughout the season, he let Nunnally be used as a pawn, and once did so himself, [[WhatTheHellHero much to her displeasure]]. Don't get me wrong; in the end, I felt more pity in the end for Suzaku, as he learned his lesson in the end. And speaking of [[DespairEventHorizon broken people]], Lelouch was there in the end as well, to the point where his final solution was in of itself [[DeathSeeker a thinly veiled excuse for suicide]]. In the end, the Scrappy Ball had been passed over to Oghi [[LoveMakesYouDumb for]] [[TheStoolPigeon very]] [[SwissMessenger good]] [[KarmaHoudini reason]].
*** Yeah, Suzaku was broken long before Lelouch, and I did like him a lot less in R2, up until his HeelFaceTurn, or was it FaceHeelTurn...... hmmm. It seems a major reason people hate Suzaku is because he [[SpannerInTheWorks lobs spanners]] into Lelouch's plans. That's a real YMMV for me, cuz I loved all those [[BigDamnHeroes moments]]. I guess I just hate Lelouch that much, but thank you for explaining that too me from the point of view of someone who doesn't hate Suzaku.
* For that matter, why do people ''like'' Lelouch so much? The series basically rewards him and treats him heroically for being the world's biggest dick and infecting others with his dick-ish attitude.
** The series REWARDS him!? Lelouch probably has the worst luck in the entire universe, and karma is the only explanation that doesn't break willing suspension of disbelief. What's fun about Lelouch is that even with the entire universe seemingly existing to fuck him over, he stays determined with his outrageous plans managing to continue to come out on top.
*** This troper think that the troper who asked this question is on crack. Since when does having your girlfriend killed by your fake brother, having your mother killed off by your uncle, having to fight against your best friend, having to fight against your sisters (and accidentally forcing one to go homicidal and then be forced to kill her), having to fight against your parents because they were willing to sacrifice you, becoming a symbol of everything that mankind despises and being assassinated by your best friend constitute a reward? Lelouch's only reward is that his sister is safe and that's not really a reward so much as what Nunally deserved.
** It's because he's a badarse rebel with disturbingly good planning skills. That and because he's at least honest about his morals (or his lack of them).
** A dick though he may be, he's honest to himself and those chosen few he trusts. And while his methods of getting what he wants are underhanded and sneaky, his goals are far better than the guys on the other side of the war.
*** I couldn't have said it better.
** It's purely a plot to make Suzaku fans whine. Yes, you caught us.
** First off, he's the protagonist, so we're automatically going to want to like him and give him the benefit of the doubt. So, we're far more willing to forgive him for doing nasty things than if the story were told from a different point of view. Next off, he's fighting against the evil empire that's busy discriminating against everyone else and trying to take over the world. And probably most of all, he's just plain ''cool.'' I mean, sure he does things that he really shouldn't. He's not necessarily the nicest guy. But he's a [[MagnicentBastard genius]] and is constantly pulling [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome crowning moments of awesome]]. So much of what he does is just plain ''[[RuleOfCool cool]].'' So, while you may not always agree with his methods, he's so cool that much of the time it just plain doesn't matter - or at least you let it slide. He also has a much better attitude about things than Suzaku does. He's a bit narcissistic, but he fully acknowledges that what he's doing isn't necessarily nice. And, as Diethard pointed, ''he gets results.'' Lelouch may be too willing to be nasty at times, but he's definitely cool.
*** The DesignatedHero protagonist argument only goes so far though. Plenty of straight [[TheRival antagonist]] AntiHero characters have been favored over the protagonist, often attributed to DesignatedProtagonistSyndrome, regardless of whether or not the protagonist is boring. Some of the more notable examples have included [[InuYasha Sesshomaru]], [[{{Yu-Gi-Oh}} Seto Kaiba]], and of course, [[MobileSuitGundam Char Aznable]]. CodeGeass simply flipped the script by having the protagonist be the ByronicHero, while at the same time serving as a [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruction]] by him having heroic motives and a more sympathetic characterization. And the other aforementioned characters received more than enough screentime to be portrayed and/or act more sympathetically, but just didn't. It certainly doesn't help things that [[CosmicPlaything the universe often has it in for Lelouch when he's trying to do the right thing]], or that the only other characters with any true vision and competence, namely Xing-ke and Kaguya, can be counted with one hand, with the rest impeding any hopes for world peace in one way or another. To put it another way, if not for Suzaku's [[SpannerInTheWorks troublesome interference]] or [[SwissMessenger Ohgi convincing the Black Knights to betray Lelouch based on suspicious evidence]], Lelouch would have never flown [[DespairEventHorizon off the deep end]] and resorted to a [[ThanatosGambit self-sacrificial gambit for world peace]] [[GenghisGambit that hinged on him creating even more destruction]], and leaving the world without his talents in case of another conflict, which is too likely, since it is impossible for humans to cease hating on the currently existing, and to focus all the hate on one person is [[FridgeLogic questionable at best]]. Add to that that many of the undeserving people, including Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia, got happy endings, and it's pretty clear why Lelouch gets a lot of enduring sympathy.
*** Infact, Lelouch may suffer from DesignatedProtagonistSyndrome himself, which is too likely due to the show's BrokenBase, and his status as a BaseBreaker. There are a lot of people who have sided with Britannia, and even view Gino as an okay guy, mistaking his [[UpperClassTwit cluelessness]] for [[HarmlessVillain harmless idiocy]], ignoring some of his declarations (he often believed that mass violation of Britannian law was a pretext to a purge) and his [[CombatPragmatist questionable and dangerous battle tactics]]. Not as {{egregrious}}, though still suspicious, is the praise Guilford himself gets. While he is honorable and sympathetic, many of his fans mistake his valor for heroism. While he doesn't kick any dogs, he certainly doesn't go out of his way to help improve things, from being the knight of the brutal [[TheBaroness Cornelia]], and eventually being a more benign case of ObstructiveBureaucrat in R2. Evidently, he scored sympathy points after getting geassed by Lelouch (which ended up being out of necessity), almost getting caught in the F.L.E.I.J.A., losing his sight, and finally making it back to Cornelia. That he stands in the way of most efforts towards peace, whether or not by his own design, are overlooked.
** That, and contrary to Suzaku, he never once forgets the cause of his, as well as the rest of the world's problems: Britannia.
*** So Lelouch is flawed and does several villanous things but we don't care and forgive him because he's ''cool?'' Congragulations, you just described DracoInLeatherPants perfectly!
*** Something tells me that this issue, as well as the issue previous, is one of the greatest themes of the series. Both Suzaku and Lelouch desire something good, but pursue evil and increasingly hypocritical means. It's also kind of a NotSoDifferent idea, with the both of them.
*** And yet so much FanDumb ''on this very wiki'' keep on claiming that Lelouch is a pure heroic savior whose evil extremist actions were all perfectly justifiable because they were against Brittania. And yet Suzaku is a CompleteMonster whose evil extremist actions against ''the guy who killed his girlfriend'' are unforgivable. And they say Suzaku sees things in black and white?
*** Nobody claims that Lelouch is a pure heroic savior here, or at the least, if they do, they're exagerating, they simply say he's generally more correct than Suzaku is. Britannia is a truly corrupted and f'ed up system, and Suzaku is perfectly willing to follow their orders in the hopes of changing the system from within, even though that goal is obviously a hopeless one right from the start. When Britannia starts doing horrible things in the name of victory, Suzaku just ignores that and continues his self-righteous nonsense, whereas Lelouch actually acknowledges the immorality of his actions.
*** There's probably an interesting debate - though this isn't really the place for it - about the respective morality of doing horrible things out of ignorance versus ''knowing'' the immorality of your actions and still going ahead with them.
* ThisTroper just finished watching both series, completely spoiled for the ending and entirely without being in fandom, and found ''both'' Lelouch and Suzaku (and most of the other main characters, honestly) to be sympathetic, rather tragic characters with noble aims (and some not-so-noble motives they deceive themselves about) who did some really horrible things to get results, and a tendency to get really irrational when it comes to people they love. And in the end they both acknowledged their and each others flaws and were willing to put aside their differences and personal issues to both achieve their aims and accept the punishment for their actions. Yeah, totally NotSoDifferent. But what do I know, I'm just someone who loves both characters...
** ThisTroper fully agrees... both characters are interesting in their own ways, and neither of them falls into Scrappyness at any point. ThisTroper does have a slight Lelouch bias, mostly because at least he accepts his dickishness, instead of trying to hide it with
self-righteousness, but i never found myself hating Suzaku...
*** This troper would like to applaud you for summarizing my feelings about the show so well. The Code Geass characters are just that much more human for their acts of ''both'' shame and honor. And that makes almost all of them worthy of respect at some point in the show. In the end, most of them want the same ends, but it's just TruthInTelevision that they disagree about the means.
*** Amen to that!
** This troper agrees as well. I see both Lelouch and Suzaku...most of the cast actualy, not not fit into the cookie cutters of evil nor pure. Neither are satanic, psychotic serial killers, but neither are gonna be Pope any time soon. Shouldn't this be what makes the cast INTERESTING? the fact that good and evil can be seen in almost everyone? That you really don't know by the end who to root for?
* Why is it imperative to pick one or the other? This troper thinks they're ''both'' completely nuts.
* Did anyone else notice that just about everyone in the whole series (save for the cops Lelouch sicced on Mao) has the ''exact same pistol''? Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C., Mao... they all have the same gray and black Heckler and Koch USP/SOCOM pistol (keep in mind, I only use that name because said gun happens to resemble the one from the series) with the glowy laser sight. Granted, it's a cool gun, but a little variety wouldn't hurt.
** Probably standard military issue. Or military surplus. And it's the coolest gun ever.
*** No... the JLF had Nambu-like pistols...
*** Oh... well, thank you, then. It was hard to notice, seeing as just about every JLF member whose name was not Tohdoh was barely onscreen for more than a second or two.
* How the hell did Rollo survive the FREIA explosion? If he was "covering Nunnaly's shuttle" like Main/ThatOtherWiki says or planned to kill her like my intuition says, either way he would have been well within the blast radius. Even Zero barely managed to Main/OutrunTheFireball in his prototype mech, so how did Rolo do that in his lousy stolen Glasgow?
** Rolo actually got warned about FREIA, remember? Also, Lelouch ''wasn't'' running. He had to be pushed out of the way by Guilford, and that was only after the explosion had nearly caught up.
*** How did Guilford survive? And why were his eyes the only things that were injured?
*** When Guilford pushed Lelouch out of the way of the blast, he himself was ''just'' at the edge of FLEIJA's range. Since the bomb acts as a black hole, all he had to do was eject before it contracted and destroyed everything engulfed in its light. There are three possible reasons he wears the glasses. 1 -- the FLEIJA blinded him, 2 -- By that point he knows Geass works through sight and wears the glasses to prevent being Geassed by Lelouch again (assuming he's not aware it works once per person), or 3 -- He realizes that he had been mistaking Lelouch for Cornelia on sight, so by wearing the glasses he avoids that entirely, allowing him to find the real princess by voice.
* Rolo should have just killed Schneizel when he arrived in Turn 19. He had a paralyzing Geass, after all.
** His priority was getting Lelouch out. It's not clear if he even ''noticed'' Schneizel was there.
*** He didn't have to have noticed Schniezel was there. He should have noticed the [=BKs=], and that should have been enough for him to Geass everybody in the area, including Schniezel and Kanon. After all, the [=BKs=] only ''fired the bullets he kept from hitting Lelouch''. And killing Schniezel while he had his senses stopped by the Geass so that he couldn't speak or anything would have shut down the ability of the mutiny to threaten either him or Lelouch, since he'd have a far easier time sneaking Lelouch out if needed. Really, the scene made the PlotArmor of both Schniezel and the [=BKs=] crystal clear at that point, because Rolo ''killed [[WhatMeasureIsAMook random soldiers]]'' during the escape so that he could evacuate Lelouch. The BKs would have been random soldiers to him, since it's Lelouch he's attached to, not them.
* FREIA wasn't a nuclear bomb, right? I've never seen a nuclear blast cut the surroundings so neatly apart. It looks almost like the matter (even the air) within the blast radius were gone. If it was converted to pure energy, I wonder how Earth lithosphere survived it (E = m* c* c)? If it is just "gone" to some other place, where to? And did Nunnaly survive that, after all?
** It has "space transfer" in its description. Might be it obliterates everything within a set radius, then teleports them elsewhere.
** It's described to be with fission and Sakuradite (which has also been shown to be a very volatile explosive). Perhaps the compound effect of the two caused something similar to antimatter annihilation?
*** Annihilation is not the same thing as explosion, fission, or implosion. The closest analogy to annihilation is "cancels out"
** Antimatter matter reactions, theoretically, produce massive amounts of energy, producing a violent explosion, producing the typical blast radius you get from a big ol' explosion not a cleanly carved SphereOfDestruction.
** This troper believes that "Space Transfer" only means that, after the [[SphereOfDestruction Sessrumnir Sphere]] had subsided, there is vacuum, and space transfer is simply air's inrush to fill the vacuum.
** How the hell did it cause 20+ million secondary deaths, anyhow? By all appearances, everything in the blast radius is vaporized; everything outside is basically fine (the knightmare frames hovering just a few meters outside the blast get hit with some turbulence, but are otherwise fine along with their pilots).
*** ThisTroper remembers seeing a sort of "reverse shockwave", at least during the first test, when air was rushing back into the vacuum left by the bomb. That's pretty much the only explanation i can find, since no one seems particularly concerned with radiation after the explosion.
** Yeah, the whole "20+ million" casualties thing kinda confused me, too. It might make sense, though, considering the fact that Tokyo, circa 2018, should be ''much'' more densely populated than either Nagasaki or Hiroshima (the only cities that have ever been nuked in real life) in 1945, not to mention the fact that it was probably packed with thousands of soldiers at the time. As for the Knightmares right outside the Sessrumnir Sphere that were completely untouched... uh, beats me.
*** The "primary casualties" and "secondary casualties" refer specifically to the number of Britannians and the number of Elevens that died in the blast. There were obviously no wounded and no effects outside the sphere. Remember that, while the settlement is a place for Britannians to live, many Elevens work there under slave-like conditions. The population density of the Tokyo settlement is likely as high as it is because Elevens have been forcefully relocated there to serve as laborers for the Britannians. Also, do remember that 2018 ATB is roughly equivalent to 1968 CE. The Britannian calendar starts when the Romans were cast out of Britain, not when Jesus was supposedly born.
*** It would also interrupt electricity(so anybody on oxygen is screwed, anyone on dialyses is soon to be screwed), transportation(including such important things as food, so mass starvation), government hierarchies(meaning that controlling the emergency would be extremely difficult), work distribution(it could take out a bunch of normal workers, collapsing business causing starvation, destroy particular industries, which could be lethal if it were the right ones), etc.
*** There's also the point that all Sakuradite based electronics were shut down - meaning that anyone caught inside the war zone had to get out on foot. And though the calendar is fifty years earlier, technology and population is around modern levels, and modern Tokyo is one of the most populated cities in the world. If they used the numbers for that, then 20 million deaths is high... but not outrageous.
* Why hasn't Lelouch simply told Jeremiah to cancel the "live" geass on Suzaku, or for that matter, why hasn't Suzaku asked him to do it?
** For Lelouch that would be pointless, since for all he knows Suzaku doesn't want to die anymore anyway, a misconception supported by what Lelouch thought was a second betrayal in 17. Suzaku on the other hand doesn't know about Jeremiah's geass canceller, and it's not like anyone would have any reason to tell him about it.
*** On top of that wouldn't the 'live' geass activate and prevent Suzaku from asking for it to be removed?
*** Not unless he intended to knife himself then and there. It only activates in response to immediate danger which Suzaku actively wants to kill him.
* What is wrong with the main characters of the show following the FLEIJA incident? Let's see, tens of millions of people have been killed and none of the Black Knights seem to be very affected, Schneizel certainly has no change in demeanor, and while both Lelouch and Suzaku have crazy moments, they quickly return to sanity. More importantly, wouldn't you expect massive public reaction calling for the head of whoever deployed and/or built such a weapon?
** Lelouch tried to seal himself for eternity with his father, Suzaku tried to kill the Emperor and become the most powerful Knight in Britannia, Nina stood around ground Zero for at least an entire day, The Order decided to enter negotiations with the people who had oppressed and killed them,and everyone else was just trying to bury what remained of the dead. I'd hardly call any of the principle characters reactions normal, and in fact the general public reaction was quite a bit like episode 12 of the first season. As for Schniezel, he was counting on FLEIJA being used from the start, no surprise he wasn't affected by it.
** I have to echo the last line. The near lack of any attention to such a flagrant screw up on the part of the military is just annoying. Suzaku nukes Tokyo, killing tens of millions of Britannians and the head of government in the area, and there is not a single drop of public outcry for even the smallest bit of justice. It'd be like a bomber in the real world accidentally hitting the wrong city in the middle of a war and not being punished because the enemy gave up. At least there'd be an investigation of some sort to see how responsible he was. My head went through the wall once Schneizel blamed Guilford and said he was a hero, followed by Suzaku acting like he should be rewarded for it. Even Gino, who was at least appaled by the devastation, acts like Suzaku is not the least bit responsible for what happened. What is wrong with these people?
*** Do remember that Nina was in hiding, fearing such a thing to happen. But how bad was the reaction when the original atomic bomb was used? Did Japan demand the death of those involved? Was there massive public outcry banning it? The reason we don't use nuclear bombs like that today is because we know that everyone has the technology, and will retaliate by nature, and we could very well wipe out humanity if we don't hold back. It's not considered "evil" by most, just incredibly dangerous and a really bad idea.
** Lelouch was never again fully sane following the betrayal, having jumped the DespairEventHorizon.
* Sort of a related question, how is it that in episode 20, Lelouch is able to go so quickly from a near catatonic state to his usual scheming self. To some extent, I understand that his behavior in front of the Black Knights was done to keep any of them (especially Kallen) from supporting him and then being killed by the others, but still, what a rapid change in mood, and this isn't the first time he has acted this way.
** He pulled it together to do what he had to, it's not like it's the first time he's done ''that''.
*** Not really, he simply was too shocked to and was actually saying his FacingTheBulletsOneLiner. He intended to die now that the jig is up, and since Nunnally [[spoiler: (apparently) died]], he had nothing else left to live for. Rolo coming in was unpredictable, and that's why he was so touched by his sacrifice considering his treatment of Rolo as a ReplacementScrappy.
* Lelouch apparently runs REALLY damn slow. The Euphinator beats him with time to spare to the stage in a gown. Also, why didn't Lelouch try any sort of trickery to convince Euphie not to kill all the Japanese, like: "you haven't officially commemorated the SAR, so everyone out there's an Eleven. How silly of me to give you a useless task."
** Did you ''watch'' the episode? He was restrained by her bodyguards before he could do anything. Anyway, that wouldn't have worked, because Euphy still ''thought'' they were all Japanese. It's her thing.
*** He was stopped after she had got onto the stage and tried for 30 or so seconds to non-violently get the Japanese to kill themselves, only then did Lelouch get stopped by guards. Even accounting for the need for him to put the mask back on, there's no way he could be beaten by someone '''in a gown'' by that large a margin. And while I doubt anything could've stopped Euphie, I was sorely disappointed that Lelouch's best effort was "Wait, Euphie!" after it was clear he couldn't issue any more geass binding orders.
*** ''R2'' episode 5. Lelouch gets outrun by Suzaku, Shirley, Kallen ''in a giant mascot costume'' and Milly. When it comes to physical endurance, Lelouch is pathetically weak.
*** To be perfectly honest, this troper thought that joke was tossed in as an attempt at justification for how friggin' slow he was in the Massacre Princess scene when the episode first aired. Still hilarious, but in a rather sad way.
*** No, in the episode where Lelouch and Suzaku are chasing after Arthur, the cat which had accidentally slipped on Zero's mask and run away, it's well established that Lelouch has very crappy stamina in that he is quickly winded while running up a flight of stairs while Suzaku passes him up. This was way before the Massacre Princess incident.
* Why do people think it was so horrible and bitchy for Kallen to [[spoiler: go and kiss Lelouch]] in R2 episode 22? Come ON, an ActionGirl has ''right'' to have a more sensitive side, so [[spoiler: smooching him]] does NOT make her automatically less BadAss.
** They want [[DieForOurShip C.C. x Lelouch]].
*** Not the ones I saw; they just seemed to be bitter [[UnpleasableFanbase for the sake of being bitter]].
*** Seems a mixture of both. Apparently, [[YouSayGirlLikeABadThing a badass action girl must reject the "useless" girly feelings]] and is morally obligated to [[FanPreferredCouple just leave her love interest into a "more deserving girl"'s care]]. LOL, NO.
** Perhaps it's because Kallen ended up turning into a total moron after Lelouch rejected her. Really, she briefly fights C.C. (who's been helping Lelouch since the beginning) and her only question to C.C. is "So, do you love Lelouch?" What did love have to do with anything, and why couldn't she figure out what Lelouch was up to? It'd be more believable if she was honestly torn between 'being loyal to her country' and 'being loyal to Lelouch', but somehow unrequited feelings overshadowed the part where he saved her from getting gunned down by her colleagues. Yeap. Real smart, Kallen.
** Huh? Kallen was the person with the clearest morals from beginning to end. She opposed Britannia, whatever that entailed, for the entirety of the show. She was opposed to Lelouch because he had apparently decided to rule Britannia and continue its evil (with her not knowing about the whole "Zero Requiem" thingamajig), which was a problem for her because she was honestly in love with the guy. And she was fairly close with C.C. during that year between seasons 1 and 2, so she probably wanted to know why exactly C.C. was siding with him. But I'm honestly confused by what you're asking here. The middle of combat, especially when Lelouch was getting away, was not a good time for a heart-to-heart discussion.
*** Blame the bad writing level of the last arc for failing to bring across Kallen's conflict properly. and the fact that she opposes him right after he seemingly rejects her, without stressing her reasons properly, give some people the (clearly wrong) impression that she is [[{{WomanScorned}} trying to kill him BECAUSE he rejected her]], instead of making it properly clear that she is opposing him becouse he started acting (from her, [[{{LockedOutOfTheLoop}} un-informed]], point of view) like a CompleteMonster, and has effectively betrayed everything they ever fought for, and became everything she ever fought against (he takes over Brittania, joins Suzaku, conquers Japan, etc).
*** And her inability to figure out what lelouch is up to stems from the fact that 1)no one would ever believe that Lelouch would try to take over the ENTIRE WORLD as step one of a plan. 2)Lelouch had given her absolutly no reason to believe in him at that point, and she gave him a chance to explain himself before the mess started, and 3)in order to understand lelouch's actions kallen would also have had to make the rather arrogant (albit, completely accurate, as it turns out) assumption that while lelouch is facing the greatest challenge of his life and having to take on the entire world in battle, he nevertheless pushed her (his LONG TIME BODY GUARD) away, rather then let her help becouse he wants to protect her. so kallen sitting on the sidelines and simply watching an evil tyrent conquer the entire world, clinging to the faint hope that he MIGHT mean well, just becouse she has feelings for the guy, was hardly an option.
** This troper was personally irritated by that scene for second reasons: number one, it felt like Kallen's feelings for Lelouch weren't thoroughly thought it; sort of tacked on as an afterthought. Her feelings toward Lelouch up to that point had always seemed to me to look more like hero worship than an out-and-out BodyguardCrush, and the ramp up to full-on romantic attraction seemed like too sudden a change in character. Second, Kallen is pretty much the only person in the show who was wholly and consistently ''good'' from start to finish, and seeing her get all sappy over someone like Lelouch (who, truthfully, [[WellIntentionedExtremist noble]] [[NecessarilyEvil motivation]] aside, struck me as a real monster, especially in R2) was just heartbreaking. I didn't want to see Kallen get corrupted, and that seemed like a real possibility there. My own [[PerverseSexualLust more personal feelings for Kallen]] [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial certainly had nothing to do with it, I assure you...]]
*** The scene in China where they fall on each other in a very romantic moment (until C.C. reminded them that she was still in the room), says otherwise. The deredere of her hero worship towards Zero + the tsuntsun of her frustration with Lelouche seemed to meet in the middle and became romantic love.
** It just bugs this troper that Kallen is considered completely good. Yes, Britannia is the EvilEmpire and has alot of douchebags in it, but her whole Japanese pride and "this is why I hate Brittanians!" shtick made her seem no better than Nina in terms of prejudice at times, particularly in episode 19 of the first season, where she was bitchy toward Suzaku while he was being perfectly civil toward her, and insulted Euphemia, who committed ''no'' crime other than being a Brittanian princess and thus, to Kallen, was evil by default.
*** She was bitchy toward Suzaku because of the "betraying his country" thing. Civil or no, she was his prisoner and that makes her entitled to being uncooperative, especially with him. Her whole "this is why I hate Britannians" shtick was not as bad as Nina because she kept it in check. She wasn't killing civilians for the hell of it, not did she consider them all irredeemably evil like Nina did. Finally, for the Euphemia example, she called her a doll princess. She didn't consider her evil, just a useless figurehead who really had no place trying to dictate any terms given the situation.\\
Kallen is considered completely good, or at the very least nowhere near as bad as half of the people in this show, because she dedicates herself to a just cause and sticks to it. Even when Lelouch went bad she stuck to it. Really, name one time in this show where Kallen, intentionally, has done something that can unequivocabally be considered evil, and you'll see why she's considered good.
*** Well, for one thing, she was a terrorist in a cell that had no particular talent or skills. IIRC, she even admitted that before Zero came along, they were just lashing out at as many Britannians as they could, without an over-arching plan and one of the facets of Kallen's worship of Zero was that he made her something other than a murderer.
*** True, but comapre this to Suzaku, who's doing pretty much the same thing as a death wish only to ''his own people''. Kallen at least has the good sense to pick the right enemy.
** Kallen is a JerkSue BloodKnight that only liked fighting and shows no remorse about killing, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really douse not like them either because they are week especially her mother(even though she douse gain some sympathy for her). She would literally stab her friends in the back without a second thought if they try and stop her.
*** The only people she shows no remorse for killing are the vicious rank and file Britannian soldiers. And again, she does not see the Japanese as weak or try to kill her friends.
* ... How exactly does nuking every capital city off the face of the Earth make one God?
** Well, if you're floating around in a giant sky fortress that can nuke any single spot on the planet, and what few people remain are starving in huts, I guess that makes you kind of a god. It looks like Schneizel's going for the "Well, he'll rule all the ground at least" method of world domination.
** It's quite simple really: what is a god? It's one who decides who lives and who dies. In Schneizel's mind, the only way to create peace is to take away the choice to kill from everyone else. By creating a monopoly on violence with Freya and thus becoming a god, he'll be able to give people the peace they desire. Of course he's completely bonkers, since he more or less sees humans and everything else for that matter as mere chess pieces, so he's literally unable to take into account that human emotion and thought might be a kink in his so-called perfect plan.
*** Hmm... so, as far as he's concerned, the UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans, correct? Not that ''that'' ever goes too well, of course...
*** Seemed to work for Lelouch, didn't it? His plan definitely had a lot of UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans in it, though not exactly in the more commonly recognized totalitarian form.
** It's pretty much based off of the dialog; Cornelia says that Schneizel's plan to punish all of humanity into acting properly is something only God should be able to do, and Schneizel, it his usual ambitionless fashion, decides to take that idea and run it to the endzone for a touchdown.
** I think that it stems from the fact that asian cultures don't necessarily view gods in quite the same way as western cultures do and the show was made by those from an asian culture. In the West, where religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are big, we tend to view God as an all-powerful being who created the world. We also tend to think of God in the singular. In eastern culture, you have people talking about ancestors being gods, the emperors of some countries have been considered gods, and - as Lloyd points out in episode 2 of R1 - asian cultures sometimes believe that gods live in objects (such as [[{{Kannagi}} trees]]). I get the impression that the term god when used by asian cultures has a tendency to mean something more along the lines of a being superior to humans than an all-powerful being like those in the West think of. That being the case, Schneizel would be claiming to be a more powerful being than humans as opposed to all-powerful - and with the ability to basically wipe most of them out, that's arguably true.
** Schneizel was speaking metaphorically; he would have become God in the same sense that [[DeathNote Light Yagami]] would 'become the God of the new world!'
* How in the hell is [[spoiler: Guilford]] still alive? That is all.
** AssPull.
** I think you mean IGotBetter. On the other hand, The moments before the conversation with Rolo at the end of turn 18 established that Lelouch's Knightmare lost communication with all other units during the Freya explosion; [[spoiler:Having Guilford's transmission suddenly cut was not him dying, but in truth nothing more than a sleight of hand to distract us from the fact that we never actually saw his Vincent's cockpit consumed by the blast. Freya simply disrupted communications at that very moment, and Guilford simply lost the legs of his Vincent and presumably was blinded by an explosion in his cockpit as well, at which point he fell to the ground, proceeded to get medical attention, and finally made his way to Cornelia a month later.]]
*** Actually, I think that [[spoiler: Guliford blinded ''himself'' so that the geass Lelouch put on him wouldn't pose a threat anymore]].
*** I like that explanation. Though it doesn't explain how he would've found out about being Geassed.
** Just make it clear, he isn't blind, he just traded his Main/StoicSpectacles for stoic Main/CoolShades (probably, to protect himself from Geass): in the last episode, he looks darn well sighted, running around with an assault rifle like no man who's only been blind for three months ever could.
*** If he isn't blind, why does he have the cane? It looks exactly like a standard "I'm blind and so I swing this around to help me find my way" cane.
*** Possibly he was just near-blind ''at the time''. Two months pass between the battle of Damocles and the culmination of the Zero Requiem. Maybe his vision is restored during that time.
*** More likely, he was highly light-sensitive. If he was outright blind then he wouldn't have a gun.
* Why the hell did Lelouch go through that much of a lopsided way to Geass Schneizel? He went to the hangar, Geassed the guards, went to the control room, pre-recorded himself, then went back to the hangar to Geass Schneizel. Why couldn't Lelouch just bloody wait INSIDE the plane and Geass Schneizel as he came in? And, for that matter, how did he run all that much when he couldn't even catch up to Milly Ashford in ep5 of season two?
** The same reason he Geassed soldiers to hold other soldiers to be Geassed when he was going into the World of C to meet Charles. Style points.
** See, I always took him Geassing soldiers to hold other people's eyes open not as style points, but because maybe it would have taken him more than one room to get to the important soldiers he would have to Geass, and he could only get to a few at a time anyway. Say, Room A and Room B. Room A has two soldiers that don't do anything important, but have clearance to Room B which probably won't let just ''anyone'' in (plus possible surveillance). Lelouch Geasses the first two guys with a command like "open the door to Room B and when you get in, hold your colleagues' eyes open".
*** No, the command was just "Serve Me". THEN he commanded them to gather and restrain their comrades so he could control everyone.
* Alright, so what the fuck is the state of the world now that the series is over? I can't see Suzaku or Nunnaly taking over the government of Britannia, which means that it mostly broke down (If this isn't the case, I have another problem with it). And then they expect us to believe that everything's hunky-dory? Nuh-uh. I don't think so. You don't just dissolve the autocratic dictatorship of the ''entire fucking world'' and expect that things are going to go smoothly. The war and chaos that would erupt as groups grapple for power would ''boggle the mind.'' We're just lucky that all the FREYAs were destroyed and no one built nukes, or else my money would be on the world being destroyed. You create a vacuum of power lie Lulu did, and people are going to try to fill it. Unfortunately, a lot of different people who don't like each other will try, and that leads to an awful lot of violence, to put it lightly. If someone does take over the reins of Britannia...well, you've still got a global dictatorship, which means that all Lulu did was to advance Britannia's cause. If they're going to try and move it towards a democracy, then one generally doesn't need ''global war'' to be able to accomplish such a feat, and...argh, watching this show as an International Relations major is ''hard.''
** BellisariosMaxim all the way.
** That might work if politics wasn't so damn integral to the show. Lord knows the giant robot fighting got the back burner as the show went on. But getting that major of an aspect wrong is something I can't just ignore.
*** Lelouch spent much of the first half of season 2 setting up an alternative power structure, the United Federation of Nations, which he left in place after the final battle, and probably strengthened during the two months between it and his assassination. I think the problem is that the last five or so episodes are all very rushed, with a couple of month or two long timeskips that could do with being expanded on.
*** This. With heavy emphasis. I figured that Lelouch sarcastically acquiesced to Kaguya's demand that he split Brittania up into individual voting "states" once he has control of the Damocles. This was the only barrier that the UFN put up before Brittania could be allowed to join, and once he has the FLEIJAs, it's not like he's going to have any trouble getting the votes he needs anyway, not when anyone who would try to vote against him would be running the risk of getting nuked off the face of the planet. At the end of the series he is declared, as I recall, to be President of the UFN and CEO of the Black Knights. If he sucked most of Britannia's power into the UFN, then that means that the Brittanian military and the Black Knights are more or less the same thing, and are controlled by whoever has the most votes in the UFN- and whoever has the most votes in the UN will require the support of a great many different ethnic groups, since presumably every country in the world is now a member. And nobody's in the mood for more oppressive asshattery after what Emperor Lelouch did. If he ordered all his soldiers to be members of the Black Knights, well, they're geassed, so that's what they'll do even if the CEO isn't the Emperor of Brittania. Even if that fails the only heirs apparent to the Brittanian throne would be Nunnally, Schneizel, and Cornelia, since they made the heroic LastStand against Lelouch and at least two out of the three of them are going to try and preserve peace at all cost. This is the whole reason why Lelouch made such a big deal about taking over the UFN instead of destroying it. The UFN's charter is presumably designed in such a way that there's no way to mobilize a military force against anyone except an extremely evil common enemy. The only reason it was bad under Emperor Lelouch is because he was blackmailing everyone into voting to do whatever he wanted. By giving the individual countries free will, his death created an insurmountable bureaucratic deadlock.
*** By comparison, in NightmareOfNunnally, [[spoiler:Euphemia]] takes the throne and gives the numbered areas their freedom. There is a considerable amount of transition, and Britannia has to deal with being the object of the world's hatred, but it's a more sensible alternative to this.
* Why does everyone say Lelouch was alive? This sounds a bit wanky, but I personally believe Lelouch has been a big enough douche to deserve death at this point. And anyway, he was stabbed throught the chest ''with a fucking sword'', and Nunnally watched him die. Just because CC mentioned him afterwards, it doesn't mean he's alive. She talked to Marianne loads in the series, and I know that she was possessing Anya but Anya wasn't even in those places. So Lelouch is totally dead.Ok, wank over now.
** Well of course, they inserted C.C. saying "right, Lelouch?" as the last line, so that at least puts his death in question, especially given her record of speaking to herself in fact being her talking to others in season 1. (Marianne, Charles, and V.V. at different points) Then going back and looking over the last few scenes, there's a number of oddities:
*** directly before that they purposefully obscure the face of the cart driver (why?)
*** Jeremiah doesn't cry at all when Suzaku goes to kill Lelouch, despite how emotional he had become in turn 13 upon finding out Lelouch was worthy to be his lord.
*** Jeremiah was warned of the plan far enough in advance that he was prepared for it. His line after Zero beats him even indicates he knew as much.
*** Nunnally apparently sees part of Lelouch's memories when she touches him, and the only other time something like that has happened was when Lelouch touched C.C. back in Stage 11.
*** Nunnally was blind and was therefore very adept at reading people just by touching them. Plus she knew her brother better than anyone else.
*** Then there's also some oddities over how Charles hand with the code on it started to disappear before the rest of his body after he grabs Lelouch (and instead from the tip to the shoulder started disappearing from side to side), and how we never actually see the code after he grabs Lelouch (since his arm is gone by that part)
*** Further they showed both Charles and C.C. gaining their codes by being killed, (C.C. gets stabbed, giving her that scar, Charles shoots himself in the head) so an explanation exists for how Lelouch could still use his geass even after he was set to become a code bearer: he'd never died before.
** Anyway, basically it's entirely open to personal interpretation, and I'd say that's the way the writers wanted it to be. If you want to say that Lelouch as dead, then you can write off all these oddities as unimportant. If you want to say Lelouch is alive, you can say these are proof that Lelouch is in fact quite alive thanks to the V.V. code.
** I don't subscribe to the thought that Nunnally saw any of Lelouch's memories when she touched him. The girl can read lies by holding peoples' hands, and it isn't beyond belief that she would have been able to feel something like Lelouch's relief at his own death. She's a smart girl. There's also that, before she realized and started crying, the only scene shown was the soundless image of the L+ S scene they'd just shown a minute ago, easily markable as showing the audience that she jumped up to speed. Anyways, just dropping those thoughts.
*** Same troper as above. http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/10/code-geass-r2-another-nail-in-lelouchs-coffin/ 'Reading hearts' seems a little more fancy than intimating biometrics from touch.
** As a note, I think it would be accurate to say Lelouch certainly died at least once- he clearly closed his eyes as his life flashed before him- does anyone know what the indication was how long it would take C.C. to come back to life? I mean, when Cornelia shoots V.V. in the head he recovers in a second.
*** Charles lay around dead for 5-odd minutes after he shot himself in the head in turn 15, C.C. lay around for over 10 minutes in stage 1 after being killed. Both times Lelouch checked the bodies and determined they were "dead" and not just faking it. So the possibility of a code bearer remaining dead for an extended period of time (say, long enough for Jeremiah to grab the body while escaping) exists, especially given being stabbed through the chest with a giant sword (lungs and heart are both going to be massively screwed up by a hit like that) is probably a lot more damaging than taking a knife a few inches into your skull.
** Well, the basic theory is that Lelouch took his father's Code when the emperor died but that a Code doesn't activate until the person who has it dies for the first time, so he's been running around with his Geass active and a dormant Code. His death by Suzaku's hands then activated the Code and he came back to life just like C.C. has done time and time again. The theory is arguably supported by how the emperor shot himself per Lelouch's order and ''then'' was fine - possibly meaning that he was Geassed into killing himself and then the Code activated, bringing him back to life (though, naturally, the other - more likely - option is that he shot himself to trick Lelouch as opposed to actually being Geassed - we don't see the typical Geass brain lines after all).
** However, regardless of what theories may be out there, '''Lelouch is officially dead.''' Unfortunately, I don't know of any actual articles online that state it explicitly, but it's been quoted in various places. The [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelouch_Lamperouge wikipedia article for Lelouch]] cites a magazine article where the head writer confirmed Lelouch's death. So, as cool as it might be if he survived and was running around with C.C., it's not true. [[WordOfGod He's dead]].
*** ''Who'' is dead? Lelouch Lamperouge? Lelouch Vi Britannia? Zero? They're all personas. The idea that we all wear masks is a major part of the show. The fact that all the masks that the person we knew as Lelouch used are gone, doesn't mean that he is. This troper has seen too many writers/producers give deeply ambiguous answers to trust [[WordOfGod]] ''ever again''.
*** Yeah, even saying, outright, "Lelouch li Brittania is dead" is surprisingly unhelpful in this context. As far as C.C. is concerned, her pathetic peasant girl persona is probably dead, too. If Lelouch is still alive, there's no doubt that he's giving himself a wacky code name like [[WildMassGuessing R2]] or something.
** One thing that seemed ambiguous to me watching the English dub is that in part of the post-assassination voice-over it's mentioned that problems still happen in the world, but that Lelouch got blamed for them. Maybe this was supposed to be about pre-existing problems, but the line was delivered in such a way that it sounded like a lot of people were convinced, in-universe, that Lelouch is [[HesJustHiding just hiding]] because they NeverFoundTheBody. Don't know what this line was in the original Japanese was, though. Anybody know?
** This troper thought that it would make more sense for Lelouch to survive. Death isn't exactly a penance for all that you've done but life would be. He'd be forced to live every day knowing he'd killed millions of people and could never interact with any of his friends or loved ones again. He would life full of knowledge that the entire world would always hate Lelouch vi Brittania.
* I waited until the series ended before bring this up, but really, Charles di Britannia and his XanatosGambit wanted me to stop watching the series right there. Both the revelation of it, and what happened after wards. Apparently, [[spoiler:he had everything planned out from episode one? Not to mention the Asspull from the dead mom or TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt plan. I would actually call it a XanatosRoulette, but it didn't work, which made it somewhat more believable.]] At least it ended better...
** What are you talking about? He didn't have ''anything'' planned out from the first episode. Lelouch's actions ''didn't really matter to him''. He was completely aware of what his son was up to, but he ''did not care'', besides his efforts to convince C.C. to join up with him via Marianne.
*** I remember him saying something with C.C. meeting Lelouch was part of his plan, in some way. I might be mistaken the, but regardless, the entire [[spoiler: TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt plan, and him going out like that seemed Anticlimax.]].......
*** You're wrong, considering that Lelouch clearly did nothing to help his plan and did stop it. Maybe he's talking about getting C.C. out of that capsule in the first episode, but that was really just a coincidence.
*** If you rewatch the very first scene of the very first episode... you'll see that C.C. was watching over Lelouch from the beginning. Where Lelouch is, C.C. will be. It's that simple. By R2, just dangling Lelouch around was good enough to attract C.C. The whole thing with the plan failing and Marianne having to retrieve C.C.... not anticipated, but not a huge problem.
* I know it seems hypocritical to say this given that I find Lelouch sympathetic and he is certainly no saint; but I was a bit bothered by Jeremiah's HeelFaceTurn and by the idea of Cornelia ending up as one of the good guys. When introduced in the first season, Jeremiah was shown as a nasty thug who massacred Japanese civilians with clear enjoyment. I get the idea that discovering that the Emperor had a role in Marianne's death rather than Japanese terrorists would take away his reason for hatred and all of the experimentation on him definitely mellowed him, but still... As for Cornelia, while she was shown as the kind of leader who would be just enough if only for pragmatic reasons (she wants to stop Japanese from being addicted to Refrain not because she cares but because it makes them inefficient workers), she wasn't really that nice of a person either. As a general comment, as has been noted by others, it seems like the show forgot at some point that Britannia is a brutal and racist empire and to varying extents, its citizens share these attitudes.
** Given that the last bit is kind of racist, I don't mind. Its not like their is such a thing as an evil country. Also Britannia was shown as having some good people (Several of the Ashford students, Prince Schneizel was implied to be a good person trying to put down a rebellion (look at his response to Euphemia's massacre), Lloyd, and Cecile). While I wish Cornelia's change was given more screentime its one of the few things I don't complain about Season 2.
*** What do you mean by "Given that the last bit is kind of racist"? I certainly agree that most of the people at Ashford Academy seemed nice enough, but still had the general impression that understandably, people's behavior and politics would be shaped by the official policy which ''was'' racist and SocialDarwinist. Maybe a good real-world comparison would be South Africa or any country that had or has something like apartheid. Their citizens aren't AlwaysChaoticEvil, but it is likely that there will be a lot of otherwise nice people with some nasty prejudices.
** Jeremiah (IIRC) never specifically blamed the Japanese for Marianne's death and he doesn't really enjoy killing them -- although he certainly thinks little of them, and was after all a member of the Purist faction at the start of the show, i.e. only (non-Honorary) Britannians in the army. His loyalty to the royal family takes precedence over all else, however.
** Actually the reason why Jeremiah hated the Japanese (and Suzaku in particular) was because he blamed them for the deaths of Prince Lelouch and Princess Nunnally and he was trying to avenge them, if only he knew.
** Nothing unusual about the Cornelia part. Not in the least. Episode 7 alone is a good case study. Lelouch gets plenty of legitimate motivation, from the FlashbackNightmare to when his father [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech chewed him out and had him exiled for]] daring to [[CallingTheOldManOut call him out for his apathy towards Nunnally's and Marianne's fates]], to the present day [[CatapultNightmare when he wakes up from it as a dream]], followed by him declaring that he will eliminate the Social Darwinistic Britannian Empire. (Not to mention Shirley's personal flashback where she saw Lelouch help an old couple out but not call attention to himself.) Cornelia, meanwhile, in a display of her own racism and senselessness, has a civilian ghetto razed in order to lure out Zero. She never redeems herself of any of this, and only suffers in that she gets badly wounded twice and loses her sister, but nonetheless lives on arguably happily ever after by show's end even though Lelouch consigns himself to death.
* I just realized how many {{Contrived Coincidence}}es there are in the first episode. The prince who happens to be hiding in Japan that has a huge hate of Britannia meets his best friend from childhood, and releases a MagicalGirl who is willing to give him superpowers, which is just what he needs to launch his scheme to destroy Britannia. The writers might as well kill the Emperor by hitting him with a bolt of lightning.
** Or better yet, have [[spoiler:God eat his soul]].
*** Well, it could have been done another way, but they wouldn't have been able to introduce all the main characters in one episode. Like how Gundam Seed has Kira finding the Strike but Athrun is there, too? Huge coincidence. It happens a LOT in anime. It's just easier and simpler that way.
* In Episode 23 of Season 1, why does Lelouch insist on personally shooting Euphemia out in the open? I mean, if he had just let Kallen fry her Gloucester with the radiant wave surger like she wanted, Suzaku would've had no reason to target Lelouch himself later; he'd probably assume she was just killed in the crossfire and focus his hatred on Kallen or the Black Knights in general instead. My guess is that he wanted to correct his mistake in person, but honour aside, it just seemed like he was drawing way more fire toward himself than was necessary.
** Guilt seems to be the main reason. While he quickly managed to turn this mistake into an advantage, he was still horrified of what had happened, even crying when he decided to kill her. And for the "drawing attention to himself": First, he didn't know that Suzaku was watching. Second, at this point Suzaku neither knew about Zero being Lelouch, nor about Geass. So it really made no difference if he hated the Black Knights as a whole, or their leader Zero in particular.
*** Actually, now that I think about it, Suzaku would've gone after Lelouch regardless of whether he saw him shoot Euphie or not because of V.V.'s interference. Even if Kallen killed her and Suzaku didn't find out about it until later, the fact is that V.V. specifically told him about ''Zero'', so there was really no one else he could have gone after. So much for that...
** Yeah, it's pride. It's stupid of Lelouch, who is a capable, but not Rounds-level pilot like Suzaku and Kallen, to lead his army as one of them, but he does it because of his pride, which is like Cornelia's. It's Lelouch fault that he made Euphemia into a monster, so he'll stop it with his own hands.
* One thing that has always bugged me...Oghi's jacket. Why does it have this on it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge
** The show has several [[ShoutOut shout outs]] to WW2, this is likely another one of them, he is after all part of a persecuted minority.
** Also it has some historical plausibility, a Japanese Diplomat assisted a good number of Jews in escaping the Holocaust by giving them passage into Japan. As a result there is a very small Jewish population in Japan today. Assuming something similar to the Holocaust happened in the Geassverse history, then Ohgi could be the descendant of a Jewish immigrant. That would also explain his curly hair, a common trait for Semitic populations as it served to retain moisture in the Middle Eastern region.
*** Oghi as a jew? Considering he's become a major Scrappy, that just runs full of UnfortunateImplications...
* Is it just me, or does Lelouch's checkmate over Schneizel seem like a complete asspull moment to anyone else? Yes, he managed to trick Mao with the recorded replies thing, but Mao was an idiot. Lelouch knew how to play on his insecurities, namely talking about how C.C. likes him more, so he could predict a general response. He never needed to be specific in anything he said, just manipulate his emotions, which is easy. That's completely different from Schneizel's defeat. Lelouch predicted his exact wording, exactly how long Schneizel would be speaking, and ridiculously accurate responses to all of it. At one point, he even predicted the moment Schneizel would ''interrupt'' him. This is where Lelouch went from brilliant to omniscient for me and I feel a little cheated that the only bastard as magnificent as Lelouch got brought down so cheaply by a technique that could have only realistically fooled a person with a mind of a child.
** It works if you realize that at that point Schneizel was so wrapped up in his own belief that AGodAmI that he had 1) become extremely predictable and 2) even when he thought he was going to die simply didn't believe that Lelouch could outsmart him in any other way than getting to the control room ahead of him, so didn't think too much about what was going on. Schneizel had essentially forsaken his own ChessMaster routine in favor of nuking the shit out of anyone that opposed him... he let his sakuradite-powered brawn do his thinking for him, while Lelouch was still playing head games more than anything else.
** However, it's not just that he became predictable. Lelouch somehow knew exactly what he was going to say and when he was going to say it. Compare Mao's recording to Schneizel's. In Mao's, he never converses with him. He mostly just goes on mocking him for what he never had, which he knew Mao would respond in immediate rage and nothing else. The fact that he didn't need to predict anything more than the general emotional reaction made it believable. In Schneizel's, he had the whole conversation played out. He predicted the words Schneizel would use, and even the point which he would be interrupted. I don't care how predictable Schneizel was. He was smart enough to be able to think of alternate ways to say 'strategy', which would have immediately cast suspicion after Lelouch responds with an "It wasn't strategy". What would have happened if he merely said something else such as "plan"? Or what if he just decided to affably say "Hello, Lelouch." because he was under the impression that he won anyway. That would have blown Lelouch's entire plan and that's just the opening line! He predicted the entire conversation, which is just plain ridiculous.
** Keep in mind that Lelouch had from all indications grown up with Schneizel as one of his closer siblings, the series repeatedly mentioned that they used to play chess together prior to Lelouch's dramatic life changing event. It isn't as if Lelouch is unfamiliar with the guy's mannerism's or thought processses
** I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. It's simply not enough. I can manipulate my friends into general reactions, but I can't predict the future. As I said, he had the entire conversation played out. Even the point when Schneizel interrupted him. No one is that predictable. Then, when you count in the circumstances, it's even less likely. Schneizel was about to die, and even if he didn't care about his life, he has just accomplished his life goal of bringing peace to the whole world and was essentially on his death bed, so he just MIGHT have acted a little less predictable. So, since it's just plain ridiculous to think that Lelouch could predict the entire conversation (especially the point at which he'd be interrupted), it's just absurd to think that he could predict someone as complicated as Schneizel in the time he would have most likely acted out of character. I'm sorry, but "Lelouch played him in chess, therefore he can predict his every thought" is not a satisfying explanation.
** You could always go with [[http://www.darkmirage.com/2008/09/22/code-geass-r2-episode-24/ DarkMirage's]] explanation
* I find it hard to believe that Lelouch could've predicted the content of his conversation of Schneizel down to the exact words used. Perhaps Lelouch is speaking through a microphone to a silent pre-recorded movie with advanced lip-syncing technology. Oh well.
** Or you could use this: Lelouch wasn't even predicting exactly what Schneizel would say. If you really pay attention, Lelouch is the one starting conversation. He says something about "strategy", Schneizel follows it up, and regardless of the answer, Lelouch initiates a''nother'' conversation going in another direction, but something that somehow seems related to what he was saying before. Case in point,
--> Schneizel: "And that is why you thought I would abandon Damocles?
--> Lelouch: "Schneizel, you will taste defeat this time"
--> Schneizel: "So you will kill me."
--> Lelouch: "I have a question."

** Question is asked, question gets answered, Lelouch asks another 'somehow related but still different' question. Doesn't sound like 'predicting lines' to me.
*** Then how do you account for the other instances he did predict lines. Yes, I'll concede that in that particular part is believable, but how do you explain Lelouch responding to Schneizel before he even said anything?
-->(Schneizel enters ship and Lelouch pops up on screen)
-->Schneizel: "I see. Checkmate on me, eh? How did you discern my strategy"
--> Lelouch: "It not a strategy. What I read was your personal nature."

** You could say that this was a pretty predicable thing Schneizel would say, but like I mentioned when I first made this complaint, what would have happened if Schneizel just used different wording like "So how did you predict this?" or "You firgured out my tactic?" or any of the other hundreds of way to say "How'd you do that" without using the word 'strategy'. And if he had, then Lelouch would have been caught right then. And even going by your example, after Lelouch said "I have a question" Schneizel responded with his answer, then Lelouch gave an accurate response to that answer. Lelouch continues the conversation to this point:
--> Lelouch: "I yearn for the future."
--> Schneizel: "The future may be worse"
--> Lelouch: "No, it will be better."

** Once again, Schneizel could have respondered in a number of different ways. Finally, there is this gem that breaks all willing suspension of disbelief for me.
-->(Lelouch is making his speech about how people yearn for the future)
--> Lelouch: "Geass, and masks, their origins are-"
--> Schneizel: "This is irony"

** Explain exactly how he knew he'd get interrupted here.
*** He isn't interrupted in the dub.
** As for the greeting. Lelouch could well have just decided to use strategy himself. By sheer coincidence, Schneizel did too. Saying hello could easily have been ignored by lelouch in favor of getting to the point. He has no reason to be polite. And in saying "I've been waiting for you" he said hello already. Lelouch's response was really closer to "I didn't see through your plan, I saw through you!" Even if Schneizel didn't ask, he could have still said that purely to get across that he finds schneizel predictable, just like with the "I've been waiting for you" style greeting.For the future bit, Schneizel wishes for the present. By far one of the most common responses to talking about doing something different and changing or staying the same is "it might be worse then it is now." This is especially predictable of a response for someone wishing for things to remain the same. He was getting ideological in his speech. Knowing that schneizel disagrees alone would be enough to predict that he wouldn't let him finish painting his cause as righteous. He just took a pause there. Additionally. Schneizel interrupts. Who's to say lelouch didn't still say "this" or something like that. But it was drowned out by Schneizel? Obviously schneizel was the one we, the audience, needed to hear so we did. For example, Lelouch's "present" recording drowns out lelouch's "obey Zero" order as far as we hear, but Lelouch is still talking.
*** The fact that Schneizel coincidentally used strategy as well does not negate the recklessness of it. Also, listen to the tone Lelouch uses. He definitely says it in manner that makes it sound like a condescending reply, and if he said something else, he'd have been caught. And had he said nothing, your guess that Schneizel might have simply accepted it as getting to the point is nothing more than that. A guess, and an unlikely one as far as I'm concerned. I don't know about you, but I know that I personally would have gotten suspicious if I never mentioned a strategy and suddenly he talks as if I asked him something. When talking about the future, while that may be a common reply, he could have phrased it differently, making it longer, perhaps explaining his view a bit more. That also would have exposed Lelouch. I'll concede to this one, as it really works with Schneizel's views, but I find it iffy. However, I don't buy your interruption theory for a second. If he did know to pause or that Schneizel would interrupt, how did he know at what point? And if he didn't pause and the noise was just drowned out, that's even worse, because Schneizel would see Lelouch still talking on the screen, which would make it kinda obvious something is off. No, there is no logical reasoning that Lelouch could predict where the hell Schniezel would interrupt him. He's a Magnificant Bastard, but he is not omnipotent.
*** To be honest. The response "It was not a strategy. What I read was your personal nature." isn't even normal for "how did you see through my strategy?" It doesn't answer anything in that question because it doesn't answer a how. It's obvious to all involved what schneizel was doing was a strategy so there's no point to saying it wasn't, they even had a strategy battle in the beginning of the conflict. I still maintain it would come across as meaning something like "It was not strategy I read, but your personal nature." Regardless of if Schneizel had said anything. Saying "It was not strategy I read, but your personal nature." Could easily just be a statement Lelouch chose to start with. Implying that "I may not know your whole battle plan, but I know your nature!" It only sounds like a response because a question was asked right before and immediately something was said. There's no sign of recognition of the question in his tone when he says it. He's just calm, and he's known to start his fancy speeches with a sudden rise in his speaking tone. He especially did it often as Zero when he was trying to be dramatic. We just translated that as a response. But it's little more related then saying "Cheese" to the question "How old are you?" We'd recognize it as a response. Albeit a very dumb and random one. Even if the one answering weren't even paying attention to the one asking the question we would read it as a response. As for the interruption, the only other answer I have is Lelouch predicted he himself would be in the shuttle by that point and just stopped his speech, gave himself time to geass, and said his little "I'll give you a present" one-liner. But I'll admit that's just a guess, far more probable and in character then him being omnipotent though.
*** I wasn't actually suggesting he was omnipotent, don't be stupid. The real reason that this completely convoluted plan worked because of Executive Meddling. If it were as the creator originally planned, I'm sure it would have been much better explained. However, as it stands, I consider it nothing less than an asspull. I don't know about you or Schniezel, but had it been me and I said nothing, with Lelouch suddenly said what he said in a "No, you're wrong" tone of voice, I know I would have been suspicious. And the interruption breaks any remaining suspension of disbelief I had. You can go ahead and make excuses about why Schniezel conveniently never said anything that would screw up Lelouches gambit, or how Lelouch mysteriously knew what and how he would say certain things, or how he knew when he'd be interrupted, but these are nothing more than excuses, and poor ones as far as I'm concerned. The simple fact is, the reason the entire conversation conveniently played out as it did was because the writers wanted Lelouch to win and were pressed for time so they couldn't give us an appropriate resolution. I love Code Geass, believe me, I do, but this IS a wallbanger as there is simply no adequate explanation other than Godly powers (read: The writers) actively working to help Lelouch.
*** I added the whole thing to {{DarthWiki/WallBanger}}s pointing out that it takes Ominiscient to know what Schneizel was going to say, and it was made worse by the fact that they already did the thing with Mao except it was better done there since Mao was an obsessed idiot, and not someone hyped up to Schneizel's level. The only question is this also an Asspull and should it be added their.
*** For the love of ''shit'', NO. It is NOT an AssPull. It doesn't even fit the definition. Lelouch was ''not'' omniscient, and if he showed even a hint of it for the "interruption" sequence that has you guys all butthurt, it's explained right in his sentence. "What I read was your personal nature". I don't know about you, but when you know someone's personal nature or in any sense, know them ''enough'', you can predict a good deal of what they're going to say. In Schneizel's case, he ''would'' probably interrupt Lelouch while he's in the middle of saying something, for the simple fault that he's predictable. And for the greeting, you can go ahead and make excuses, and say what ''you'' would have done in such a situation (such as not saying anything) but you're completely missing the point. Staying silent to whatever greeting Lelouch may have given him (or staying silent to Lelouch hailing him from a communications room in general) is NOT something Schneizel does, and therefore, was something he did NOT do at that point. To say that he should have or that he would have or what have you, is silly, because he didn't. And to repeat what's been stated already, Lelouch ''didn't even predict'' the dialogue exactly, he simply recorded himself based on what he knew of Schneizel.
*** Sorry, but that's not good enough for me. I know my parents well enough to know what they will say if asked certain questions, but I cannot predict HOW they say it. They may go on for a bit, or they may be concise, they may be more assertive or passive, and a hundred other variants. And I certainly can't predict more than the first few sentences, let alone an entire conversation when discussing something as complex as personal philosophies. My problem is how Lelouch got every sentence in the perfect frame of time for Schneizel to reply and how he predicted much of what was said (And lelouch DID predict exactly what Schneizel said in some instances, when he replied using Schneizel's own words). But keep in mind, this isn't a simply question, it's an entire conversation, so the more it went on, the more possibilities there are that someone will go on for too long or say something different grew. Schneizel believes he just conquered the whole fucking world. With his life goal accomplish, that was likely to have put him in some kind of mood, which would affect his speech patterns. Where he might normally be concise and objective, he could be a bit proud and and gloat a bit. Especially Lelouch, his rival and the man he just beat. Schneizel is normally modest, yes, but is it really that unlikely that maybe, JUST MAYBE, he might behave differently than normal after accomplishing his life goal? Oh, and he was about to die as well. That typically effects people as well. Not to mention that someone else, such as Diethard, having also accomplished his dream of making a revolutionary story, may have made a comment toward Lelouch, to which he would have not responded. Now, with all these factors in mind, do you seriously believe that it isn't a bit odd for lelouch to get the entire dialogue between them as precisely as he did? That it isn't a bit odd that Lelouch knew what to say, when to say and how to say it? Even the slightest slip would have blown his cover, and I find it absurd that the entire conversation went as precise as it did against someone as intelligent as Schneizel. That's not even including the interruption. Even if he knew Schneizel would eventually do so, how could he possibly know when? It could have been at the beginning of the conversation or never happened at all. It may not be an asspull, so forgive me for not knowing my tropes, but it has it's essence. As for the "he did what he did" factor, yes, it's over and done with, but that doesn't change how drastically unlikely is was for it to fold out the way it did.
*** Actually, just to address one of the above assumptions...Schneizel had not just conquered the world. In fact, he was actually attempting to flee and vaguely hoping to fight another day if he could find the resources to do so via other nations. But he had no cards left at the moment other than hoping Damocles would explode after using Nunnally as bait. Once confronted inside the shuttle though he let Lelouch lead him on during the "conversation" because he just expected to be killed, which goes hand in hand with his not really caring about anything, even himself, aside from doing what people expect of him. Granted, Lelouch read Schneizel way too accurately and unrealistically so, that I'm not questioning.
*** The Mao plan was more realistic for several reasons; 1)Lelouch knows that Mao is obsessed with C.C., and uses that to goad him into getting angry and losing his concentration 2)Lelouch knows that Mao mainly relies on his MindReading rather than his intelligence, so if he sets up his plan while out of range, Mao won't suspect anything apart from the obvious until it's too late, 3)The video has long pauses, like just after the beginning (Mao asks "Cat got your tongue?" at one point in the dub after Lelouch doesn't say anything for a while) and parts where Lelouch gets interrupted by Mao. 4)There are a lot fewer lines of dialogue; just enough to anger Mao but not enough to make him suspect anything. 5)None of his statements rely on predicting exactly what Mao says.
** I made a complete rendition of their conversation from the English Dub. It can be found "here":http://www.kongregate.com/forums/2-off-topic/topics/100639-lelouch-vs-schniezel . I'd like to point out that at times it seems like it really is a message and is conceivable that it's a recording; at other times, it seems like a conversation. Well, really, only at one time. So I guess it's * sort of* possible that it's a recording, but super-unlikely. Like, pretty much an as pull all the same.
* Is there a reason why Suzaku was the only one besides Lelouch who could know about the Zero: Requiem plan? Obviously, it wouldn't work if it became public knowledge, but he could have at least let the Black Knight leadership know that he wasn't actually going to betray them (and that they weren't actually going to be executed). Also, why did he have to actually die? He'd already faked his own death once, he could do probably do it again. As long is it never got out, the effect would be the same.
** But he didn't want to risk word getting out. The only way to ensure the plan would work would be to actually die (the actually plausibility of the plan etc. notwithstanding).
** Jeremiah, Sayoko, Lloyd and Cecil knew the plan as well. Lelouch has also done ''horrible'' things in the two month interim. It's RedemptionEqualsDeath by choice.
** As already stated Lelouch felt that he needed to die to atone for his actions while using Geass.
** Would they even have believed him? Kallen might have, but beyond that, it's questionable. They believe that he betrayed them and when they called him on it, he decided to act nastily to save Kallen rather than explaining himself at all. They had no reason to trust him. If he was lying, then they could very well have given up whatever chance they had of defeating him if they had let him do his thing. Also, for his plan to fully work, he needed everyone to oppose him. He wouldn't come across as totally evil if the BK didn't oppose him fully. As for his death, both he and Suzaku seem to prescribe to the Japanese idea that dying somehow fixes things (particularly your sins). He'd already given up on his life the moment that the BK betrayed him. He went after the emperor with the intention of locking himself in with him. He seemed to think that his life was totally expendable at that point. So, he used his death to further his plan. Now, I really think that there was a better way for him to go about things than becoming the world's ultimate evil and having Zero kill him, but he seemed to think that it was the best way and that it would somehow let him atone for the nasty things that he'd done.
*** Actually, Lelouch simply went with it because he was overcome with despair following Nunnally's apparent demise and the betrayal.
* What exactly ''is'' the [[MemeticMutation 'Homolust']] thing and where did it come from?
** Exactly what it sounds like, 4chan.
* Now that's probably clear that geass doesn't make you physically stronger, how did Mao survive being shot multiple times by the police? I know he explains it that Lelouch messed up by commanding the cops to shoot him rather than kill him, but honestly, the guy received multiple bullet wounds and was left for dead.
** He had likely obtained body armor at the beginning of the episode, when he goes to the weapon's dealer and blackmails him into supplies. In other words, all the bullet wounds were to his extremities.
*** Since Lelouch didn't tell the police to kill Mao, they came out of the Geass as soon as they finished shooting him. So they'd have no idea who he was and would immediately transport him to the hospital, saving him from death by blood loss.
*** The real question would be how exactly none of their shots managed to connect with his head, but that seems to happen a lot in all sorts of shows.
*** He specifically says that he's amazed at how good Britannian hospital care is.
*** Most people (unless they are elite snipers) tend to aim for center mass so they have a higher chance of hitting.
*** I believe there ''is'' a more-or-less "official" explanation provided; it's on the FridgeBrilliance page.
* Episode 25 of R2. Why did they attach chains to Nunnally's ''useless, paralysed legs''.
** Because Lelouch probably looked more evil that way.
** Mao did the same thing back in season one when he had Nunally tied up and photographed.
** Maybe he was scared that if she got back her sight through sheer willpower, she could do the same with walking? (Not fully logical, but it does also make him look more evil, as was said.)
*** In NightmareOfNunnally, after coming to terms with herself, she regains her sight ''and'' her mobility.
** The chains on her legs seem to be the only ones anchored to the ground by way of the weights, so they were meant to keep her in place in case someone tried to rescue her (although Lelouch knew how it would all play out). Oddly enough, her arms aren't restrained, either.
* I liked it when R2 went from the dickish to the Philip K. Dickish, but [[DarthWiki/WallBanger banged the wall]] when the pop metaphysics was dropped. For a brief, shining moment, the series gained a billion Maturity Points; Lelouch's thoughts moved from "I AM ANGSTING! I'll trap myself forever with my father in an eternal sacrifice, like the Important Messiah Figure I am!" to "What? I never actually interfered with his plan?" to "Well, maybe I'm a bad person, but there's good out there, and I'll try to protect it." He seems to finally realize that Changing The World is less important than being a decent person! Then... he comes up with the ZeroRequiem. '''Did. He. Learn. Nothing?'''
** Also, is there a trope for "shows that would have had awesome endings if they'd stopped a few episodes earlier?"
*** He actually did protect the world, in a roundabout way, through Zero Requiem, if you look at it from that perspective. And well..I would have probably banged my head against a wall if the show had ended at episode 21, unless there had been a third season to wrap a few things up. The end of 25, as much as you might not like it, did wrap up a lot more than 21's.
*** Except he didn't even need to. It was all part of a death wish after everything he lost, and/or thought he had.
** You know, while we're at it, why did Zero requiem have to take place? Couldn't he have just been a decent king? I mean, he freed the Numbers, ended illegal business practices and got rid of the evil aristocracy, and people LOVED him for it. Then he went on to betray everyone for his elaborate suicide. Why couldn't he just continue being a good emperor?
*** People really, really didn't love him for it. Certainly not when he was Emperor. I've always thought Lelouch was a basically moral person, who just had to do so many horrible things for the greater good--certainly that's how he sees it, which is why he calls himself a "demon", implying that he's damned. In order to atone, he kills himself. But being a LargeHam, he can't just take some arsenic in his wine or what have you--he has to do it like that. (There's also the theory that he's not dead--though given WordOfGod you have to assume [[DeathOfTheAuthor that the author is]]--which is a not entirely unpleasant thought, too).
*** Fair enough, people didn't love him for it and he saw himself as a bad person, but that still doesn't explain why he wouldn't just be a good emperor and bring peace to his nation. Seems a bit of a more sensible way of atonement than suicide.
*** Schneizel. He had to deal with Schneizel. If he had just continued to be a good emperor like he appeared to be at the beginning, he wouldn't have been able to defeat Schneizel in time. Schneizel had Damocles and as soon as it was in space, it would have been game over. Without Schneizel, he probably could have joined the UFN normally and then worked at convincing the rest of the EU to join (rather than conquering them like he does later). However, with Schneizel doing who-knows-what with Damocles and bunch of FLEIJA warheads, he had to put himself in a position to deal with Schneizel as quickly and efficiently as possible, and taking over the UFN was the fastest way to do it. With that done, he couldn't exactly go back to being Mr. Nice Guy. No one would believe him. Also, one of his major reasons for Zero Requiem was to be so nasty and evil that everyone would forget Euphemia, the Massacre Princess. If he had just been Mr. Nice Guy, he couldn't have done that. So, while he may have been able to find a way to save the day and still be Mr. Nice Guy, it didn't quite fit his goals and it would have been much harder. So, he decided to just be as nasty as possible and get things done as efficiently as possible and pay for it with his life.
*** Because he knew that he couldn't. Revolution comes in two phases: destruction and creation. Lelouch was a destroyer. What makes him different from most revolutionaries is that he actually ''realised'' that the skills and mindset required to accomplish the former, pretty much precludes you from succeeding at the latter. He destroyed Britannia - destroyed the entirety of the world that was - but he simply did not have the skills to build a new world. That's where people like Nunally, Kaguya and the Tianzi come in.
*** That he used destruction as a means to an end didn't make him a pure destroyer; he also created the Black Knights, and more importantly, the UFN, among other things, which demonstrated that he had organizational and leadership skills that could be put to good use as a peacetime leader had he lived. Which makes his death seem like such a waste. Which makes, in response to the other bulletpoint, the idea of acting even worse and causing even more deaths as atonement complete nonsense. It was just [[DeathSeeker an over-the-top death wish]].
*** However, it would have been possible to explain the thing with Schneizel after his half-brother had been defeated and cancel Zero Requiem. A little harder with the thing with the UFN, which he wouldn't really have had to do if he wasn't trying to set himself up as the bad guy, but that's what you have propaganda for. The way I see it, the actual reason he doesn't take the Good Emperor route and dismisses Zero Requiem after defeating Schneizel is because of Suzaku. IMO he had not planned to actually die because he wanted to atone (he's expressed his views on seeking death with both Suzaku, Tohdo and Urabe), but because he thought Nunnally was dead. When he finds out that Nunnally was still alive, he has already promised Suzaku his death. Letting Suzaku kill him and actually dying, however, may be two entirely different things, as people in the CG universe have proven not to always die if they are killed.
*** It's not simply a matter of a "promise"; Schneizel would have called him out for waffling. Plus, he had already gone too far to bail out.
** What I hated was that by the end of the series, Lelouch has become the type of person he called his father out for being. In episode 21, Lelouch called out his father for being so wrapped up in his plan for world peace that he ended up abandoning his children and causing them so much pain. However, by the end of the series, Lelouch becomes so wrapped up in his 'Zero Requiem' plan that he sees fit to betray his old comrades and cause them pain, which, when you look at it, is exactly like Charles' plan. The only difference is that Lelouch's plan is to make a better future, while Charles' is about preserving the past, and the Lelouch has no illusions about what he really is.
*** There's a key difference between the two. Charles's apathy towards the pain of others is genuine: a byproduct of his single-minded dedication to his plan. Lelouch's apathy is forced: a requirement for his plan to work at all. And while we're on the subject of differences between the Zero Requiem and the Ragnarok Connection, there's the rather important distinction of one allowing humanity to retain its free will while the other doesn't.
*** Whether or not Lelouch's apathy is forced doesn't bring back all the people that died because of his plan.
*** Totally. I could never really get into this show, despite the hilarious narm factor, because doing evil things "for a good reason" is just as bad as doing evil things for personal profit. Sure, Lelouch is a nicer guy than Charles but it's not like that does thousands of people any good.
*** Actually, in response to all of the above, the most accurate description for Lelouch when he came up with and enacted Zero Requiem would be WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds. It's definitely true that continuing on as a good leader would have a better net effect with less destruction, and Lelouch living on. But the last part is exactly where all of this comes in. Ever since Nunnally was thought dead and the Black Knights had betrayed him, Lelouch felt [[DespairEventHorizon he had no reason to live on]] and was simply looking for an excuse to die. Unfortunately, said plan involved taking a lot of people with him, and Lelouch was evidently too far gone to reflect on the ramifications of what he was doing. That said destruction he was causing was a result of his suffering, and that he wouldn't have resorted to such means before the perpetrating events, makes him a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds.
* I searched this page, and was surprised not to see this. Geass may take place in an alternate universe, but ''what on earth happened to the rules of chess?'' I could accept a variant where you could move your king into check. But pawns that can move backwards?
** I thought that was a deliberate rule violation by Schniezel, humiliating Zero in front of all these important people by stealing the victory away from him by "giving" it to him, or at least trying to make him look childish by seeing if he would say "You can't do that".
** That's just [[DidNotDotheResearch Did Not Do the Research]]. Taniguchi has admitted openly that he doesn't really know the rules of chess that well.
*** Taniguchi doesn't actually write the show and I haven't read or heard any such statement being mentioned before. Not really an excuse though, although it only mildly bothered me.
** This isn't an answer, but a variant where pawns can move backwards makes far more sense than one where you can put your own king in check.
** Yeah that bugged me as well. Chess is played to checkmate but in this world it's apparently played to take out the king.
*** Well, technically our chess is played to take out the king. Checkmate is simply a setup where taking the king cannot be stopped.
*** Considering that this is also the same series where Lelouch was accused of cheating in a chess match (which is hardly an easy thing to do in chess) and once decided to lead with his king I think we should just go with 'The people who wrote this don't play chess'.
* What's up with all the two-letter acronyms/alliterations in the series? We have C.C., V.V., R2 (one way to transcribe it is "RR"), Lelouch Lamperouge (LL), Cecile Croomy ([[WMG/CodeGeass another CC?]]), Karen Kouzuki (KK), Sayoko Shinozaki (SS), Anya Alstreim (AA), Gilbert G.P. Guilford (this one is so cool, he can get a GGG acronym, too)...
** I never noticed that until you brought it up, but it occurs to me that given that Lelouch has a lot of super-hero traits (e.g. a costume and playing the RichIdiotWithNoDayJob role), this might also be a reflection of Western comic book tropes.
* Does anyone know what the plot of R2 was supposed to be like had it not been for the supposed ExecutiveMeddling due to the time slot change? This troper heard that the series was supposed to have picked off immediately after S1's cliffhanger finale, but that's not exactly a detailed description.
** I'm unaware of any official outline for what was changed. They had to change the beginning to make it work better as an entry point to the series, but that's all that they've said was changed. They ''have'' said that the ending was what they'd always intended, so obviously not ''everything'' was changed. Best guess, they had to alter the beginning somewhat which resulted in compressing the rest of the series a bit because there was less room for the original material (which is probably what resulted in some of the pacing problems towards the end of the series that people have complained about). So, the overall story is the same, but some of the details are different and they weren't necessarily able to go into detail on everything that they wanted to. However, as far as I know, it's never been revealed what exactly had to be changed.
** I read that in one of the DVD interviews or such they said that there were two scenarios that they had come up with. The one that they were going to go ahead with before ExecutiveMeddling kicked in involved Lelouch being captured and imprisoned in Brittania after his standoff with Suzaku at the end of episode 25. Then there was some weird stuff about him breaking himself out somehow and going up against Schneizel in a political election or something. The second scenario, which is the one that I thought would be more interesting, involved Zero coming back to the Black Knights, except it would be an imitator; actually a girl named Lycia who would basically be a gender-swapped Lelouch. Of course, this leads the Black Knights to get very confused. So while they're all onboard their CoolAirship base, Lelouch himself comes back and has to join the group as himself, without any disguises and he gets picked on by Tamaki a lot. I think the Ashford characters were supposed to be there too, presumably being pulled along for the ride after the events of the season 1 finale.
* How did Suzaku survive his fight with Kallen? I may need to rewatch this, but I seem to recall that he pretty clearly didn't eject, his entire robot exploded around him, and he even commented that [[NothingCanSaveUsNow even his "Live On!" command wasn't going to be enough against her]]. Is this something else we can just chalk up to his CharlesAtlasSuperpower?
** He probably did eject, but it was hidden from view by a pillar.
*** Having rewatched it, as planned, this doesn't seem to have happened, as we can see his hatch the whole time until Lancelot explodes, and it neither opens nor ejects.
* If Suzaku was interested in Lelouch regaining his memories so that he could ask Lelouch why he killed Euphemia, why didn't he do so between capturing him and turning him over to the Emperor?
** This is probably one of those things he became interested in ''after'' Lelouch was memory-wiped. He was probably just too angry to ask him before said memory-wipe.
* Where did the train full of Sutherlands in episode 2 come from? Did it just happen to conveniently pass by the battle area?
** Incoming troops Geassed by Lelouch off-screen?
* How did V.V. get a code?
** Presumably the same way as C.C.: from someone who had it before. There's probably a fixed number of immortals in the Geassverse, with their powers existing since time immemorial, and they can be only be transferred, not created or destroyed, at least until [[spoiler:Lelouch erases his father from existence and presumably his Code with him]].
*** Right, but the timing seems a little wonky to me, since it seems like in every other case the "contract" between the person who bestows a code and the person who gets the Geass takes a significant amount of time to fulfill--both C.C. and Mao got their Geasses at a young age, then grew to maturity before they were supposed to fulfill the contract (IIRC, C.C. sort of discarded Mao when he couldn't bring himself to kill her). I guess V.V. could have gotten his geass at a really young age, and just fulfilled his contract with unusual ease (which implies he was a lot like Rolo in some ways), but--did he have his Code when he made his pact with Charles? I guess these aren't plot holes so much as questions which we'll never know about because of R2's "not as planned"-ness. Does any of this come up in the picture shows, or the audio shows, or other [[AllThereInTheManual supplemental material]]? I haven't seen all of those.
*** Well, notice if you will that CC asks Lelouch to kill her in R2, not much more than a year after her first encounter with him. And so presumably if you really, ah, do it to it, it's possible to evolve your Geass to a level that would make you immortal pretty fast (which VV could have done). Mao and CC both received Geass at young ages, with no prior knowledge of exactly what they were, and so they might not have thought to develop it at the same rate. Also notice that CC apparently received her Geass when she was about ten, and took over the Code when she was about sixteen. Compare that with Mao, who received his Geass when he was six, and at seventeen still hasn't taken it over (and so potentially had his regular Geass for longer than CC). Clearly it's not necessary to hold a Geass power for any long amount of time before you can take over a Code. VV looks about thirteen, right? So if you go by Lelouch's timeframe, he could have been eleven or twelve and still taken over the Code by the time he was thirteen.
* What would have happened if Jeremiah had used his Geass canceler on Anya while she was still holding Marianne's consciousness? Would it have erased Marianne from existence? What if a Geass canceler was used on someone while Mao was reading their thoughts? Would it make Mao unable to read their thoughts, temporarily (presumably for the duration of the blue sphere thingy) or permanently?
** It'd probably only be turned off in Jeremiah's blue sphere thingy.
** The Geass Canceler erases permanent Geass effects, so presumably it would either just erase Marianne's consciousness, or send her back to her original body (which would effectively kill her in either case). Since it doesn't make the affected people immune to Geass (Lelouch was able to geass Shirley a second time), Mao would probably be able to read their minds as soon as Jeremiah turned his power off.
* When Rolo joined the Black Knights for the assault on the Geass Directorate, did they know he was "Lelouch Lamperouge's brother"?
** Doesn't seem like it.
* Rolo has had his Geass for much longer than it took Lelouch to develop Main/PowerIncontinence. Why did Rolo retain control of his Geass for so long?
** Until Lelouch started going to work on him, Rolo was very much TheStoic; my guess is that his comparatively low level of emotional arousal, compared to Lelouch constantly flipping out, affected it, and that if he'd lived he would have developed his PowerIncontinence really quickly. (This could also be why Charles still had control of his Geass despite having it for at least ten years, though it's also possible that he used his Geass on himself in the same way that he stopped Lelouch from mind-controlling everyone while oblivious to his ability.)
** I think Lelouch's geass went out of control because he was using it so much; he geassed hundreds of people in just a few months, which accelerated its permanence. I would say that Rolo didn't use his nearly as often, which means he has longer to go before his gets out of control.
** {{Sneebs}} thought is was to do with Rolo being an experimental test tube baby who was designed to not have some of the shortcomings of Geass and instead have cardiac problems. I thought this would explain his isolated childhood (and hence his reason for latching onto Lelouch) as well as his rather peculiar Achilles Heel (overusing the Geass results in heart failure - seems like a fail-safe to me).
** After reading all of the above, the real question is: why is ''Bismarck's'' geass permanently active? Did it start out that way? Or when he said "never thought I'd use it against anyone but Marianne" did he mean "I'd never use it again after it became permanently active, except against Marianne"? On an unrelated note--as the Knight of One, what territory, if any, did he claim? So many unanswered questions about Bismarck, basically.
*** It could be that there are some Geass that evolve faster, regardless of their user's emotional state. If Lelouch's Geass was fast evolving, AND became weakened by emotional shocks, it could evolve as quick as it did, while Rolo's is more resilient. As for Bismarck, perhaps it's hard to avoid not seeing the future? That he had a natural tendency to see what other's were going to do, and thus had a much harder time stopping it, hence the sown eyelid.
* Why did Lelouch's Geass eye disappear for the duration of the Main/TimeSkip? Does it mean that Charles's Geass can block other people's ability to use their Geass in addition to rewriting their memories?
** He also used his Geass to make Nunnally blind--even if it was psychosomatic--so clearly it's more general than manipulating memories. I'm guessing it grants him a measure of control over an individual's unconscious mind, and that this is enough to surpress an out of control Geass. (This also adds a new angle to his obsession with the World of C...)
* Was Charles affected by Lelouch's order to die, or did he fake it? It's of particular note that his "suicide" actually takes him out for a short time, but the subsequent shots Lelouch fires take no effect.
** While it seems more likely he was affected, I like to think he was faking it, just to be a dick.
*** There is some evidence for this. When Lelouch shot his geass at him, they didn't show the whole neuron shift thing. Considering they do that consistently throughout the entire show, the fact that they didn't do so in this instance must mean something.
*** Actually, this is not the only instance where it isn't shown. He is, however, shown from afar, so that viewers can't see whether his eyes have the orange tint that indicates being under the control of Geass.
*** He had the code, so he must have been immune to the geass. He was just being a dick.
* It's been bugging the hell out of me since the start of the series: Lelouch states pretty clearly that he made the word "Geass" up. Even C.C. was surprised by the name. So why does everyone in the world refer to that kind of power as "Geass"?
** He didn't make it up, he heard it from the telepathic conversation with C.C. when she bestowed the power upon him and assumed that this is how the power was called. A lucky guess, if anything.
** I've been watching the dub and the sub over and over and I never hear her say "Geass".
*** It isn't said when they make the contract, at least onscreen, but later, when Lelouch meets her again, he claims that he heard the word during the mental contact.
* Where is it said that Nunnally succeeded Lelouch on the imperial throne? It sort of makes sense given the montage at the end, but is it said explicitly?
** Next of kin. She may be imprisoned or have violated the laws or whatever, but she is Lelouch's sister so without a son or named heir she would be crowned. It works a similar way with things like wills, family will always get your stuff if there isn't a will and provided that you weren't the killer. It's actually what would really happen in a situation like this but that just brings an ItJustBugsMe to real life.
* This's been bugging me since episode 21 of R2. How old is Marianne? Why hasn't she aged considerably like Charles? and seeing how her personality is that of a 13-year-old girl on growth hormones, why does she fit Anya better than Anya herself?
** She's younger than Charles, and she hasn't aged due to ''being dead''.
*** Missing the point here. She looks the exact same from when she (presumably) first met Charles and both V.V. and C.C. were with them, to her time of death. Charles aged a LOT since then, going from light brown overly long hair to gray curls. Where's ''her'' change?
*** Well, the youngest we see her was in 1997; Lelouch would have been born at the end of 1999; and she died in 2010. Her appearance in 2010 is somewhat older than in 1997, so she ''did'' age - albeit not as much as Charles has appeared to (though he ''is'' quite a bit older than she is). However, once she was dead, any time you see her it would be a mental image of herself, so her actual age wouldn't really matter. Still, when we first see her in the World of C, she looks basically the same as when she died. So, I really don't see a problem here. She doesn't appear to have aged quite as much as Charles did between 1997 and 2010, but he's a fair bit older than her and he totally changed his hairstyle. It's not out of the question that she just aged better.
** As for Anya: it seems that Marianne's Geass affected her profoundly. Presumably, Marianne has taken the reins from Anya in circumstances besides the ones we see; I don't think Marianne would be particularly restrained in doing so, either. Since she had Marianne in her head from a really young age, the effect periodically losing control had on her during her formative years is probably why she's so...well, [[Characters/NeonGenesisEvangelion Rei Ayanami-y]]. Also, given that "Marianne the Flash" was apparently a very skilled pilot, she's proabbly the reason why Anya is a Knight of Rounds. Come to think of it: do we ever know whether or not Anya was aware of Marianne's presence in her head? I don't remember any indication that she's aware, so probably not...which is even scarier in some ways.
*** Well, she may not be aware of Marianne's presence in her head specifically, but the memory lapses do make her resort to recording things whenever possible. So, to an extent, I guess.
* How does Lelouch signal the Zero costume to reveal his eye? I don't think the mechanism can be so sophisticated that it reacts to acts of will...
** He could just have a button on his wrist, like Spider-man's web shooters.
* Nobody at Ashford Academy has any clue that Kallen is [[ButNotTooForeign half-Japanese]] until actually told. Even ''Suzaku'' is shocked at the revelation. Conversely, she has no problem passing as Japanese when she's undercover at the beginning of the second season. If she's ambiguous-looking enough that she can pass as either race without question, you'd think ''someone'' would have noticed -- if being even slightly Japanese by blood is reason enough for a painter not to win an award, her presence at Ashford would likely be upsetting.
** It's anime. Caucasians, mongoloids, Arabs, and native Americans all have the same skin tone.
** They're drawn this way, but they don't ''literally'' look like that. My guess is that she looks Britannian, and in R2 episode 1 she applied some kind of make-up making her look more Eleven-like, as part of her bunnygirl disguise. We don't see it because of animation limitations.
*** You're reading too much into this. There's a much simpler explanation: One can look Asian and still be, say, British or American or what have you in real life. Who's to say the Geass-verse is different in that respect? The prejudice could easily have nothing to do with race and everything to do with country. (Do you automatically assume every Asian person you see is Chinese/Korean/Japanese/etc.?)
*** If race has nothing to do with the prejudice, how do the Brittanians know who to discriminate against? Even "honorary Brittanians" like Suzaku are often treated with contempt. It's pretty hard to treat people as second-class citizens if they don't stand out.
*** Look at Villetta for a better example. She's clearly not white and she experiences no discrimination from any Britannian. In fact, as soon as the Japanese start to riot during the Black Rebellion all of the Elevens who see her know she's a Britannian. My best guess is that Britannians and Numbers wear different clothing and that's how people can tell the difference. Look at each instance of an Eleven or a Britannian being on screen and the Elevens are always in shoddy clothing or jumpsuits or something like that while the Britannians wear expensive clothing and business suits.
** About the fact that "even ''Suzaku'' is shocked at the revelation" - that one thing is not that unlikely. I am half-Korean, and quite a few white and black people I talked to noticed that I look like I have some Asian ancestry, while ''every single'' Korean I talk to for the first time says something along the lines of "You're lying", "No way" and "You don't look Asian ''at all''". As for Kallen's acceptance at Ashford, it may have something to do with the fact that the Stadtfelds maintain that her mother is Mrs. Stadtfeld, not their Eleven maid. It was mentioned that they are an influential family, so it is plausible that some would not dare to question their daughter's pedigree, even with her supposedly ambiguous looks. Or it could be that the Academy does not really care that much about Britannia's racial policies.
* I can accept giant robots, magic eye powers, and most everything else about the show, but ''how'' the ''heck'' did Lelouch pull of that million Zero thing in episode 8 of R2? Either he somehow managed to get his hands on a million Zero costumes, fitted for every single person who showed up, and distribute them in a few minutes; or he got a million people to each obtain a Zero costume and change into it when the mist appeared. He did this without any information leaks, and apparently set it up so that only people with Zero costumes showed up for the second attempt at establishing the Specially Administrated Zone. How the hell did he pull off something on such a massive scale without anyone leaking information to the authorities? There's no way he could have geassed a million people in that time, and the logistics of it all would be ridiculously hard even if he had the aid of [[DeathNote Light Yagami]], [[{{Gargoyles}} David Xanatos]], and [[{{WITCH}} Nerissa]]. Just...HOW???
** This has bugged me too, and while it's a touching and thought-provoking scene, I consider it the largest DarthWiki/WallBanger in the entire show. He probably negotiated the production of the costumes with the Chinese Federation alongside the exile itself, but I see no way he could have distributed them to so many people in Britannian territory in complete secrecy. Not to mention how they put them all synchronously. NoDelaysForTheWicked at its finest.
** I just had to say "RuleOfCool" and move on. Not only was it a great scene, but for extra RuleOfCool points you have to consider the possibility that when he did that, Lelouch knew what his last move in the end game was going to be. And also that all those people might still have their costumes. Which allows '''[[http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/09/29/mind-raped-geassed-schneizel/#more-1148 this]]''' to happen.
*** I just [[http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951eef1962011efa32623900f5 rewatched this scene]], and I'll have to amend that from RuleOfCool to [[RefugeInAudacity Rule Of Absolutely Ridiculous]]. I really can't defend it on any logical level--the way everyone acts like this is a daring yet sense-making strategy (especially Lloyd's "Ah-ha!"), or how everyone changed perfectly into costume while blinded by smoke, or how they were all tailored, or basically anything that happens in that scene. Except that it's hilarious and awesome and someone took the time to put a helmet on a dog.
*** You really think people don't know how to put on clothes unless they can see them?
** In addition, the reactions of Britannia during this incident is laughable. Apparently the only options are to massacre or to let them leave. Why not just stop them from boarding the ships or recant the exile order?
*** Recanting the exile order would lead to a riot. Riot would lead to either massacre or bloody battle.
** For that matter, why couldn't the Black Knights just handle the transportation in secret instead of resorting to this ''really'' far-fetched and error-prone public stunt? They did transport and distribute the costumes in secret, after all.
** The costumes are easy to explain. Zero becomes a hero and symbol of the population and suddenly it becomes fashionable to dress up like Zero. Look at VForVendetta when everyone has a Guy Fawkes mask after V starts to become a popular symbol of freedom. Basically people will just try to copy him and make costumes to resemble him. It wouldn't be too difficult to find one from some tailor who's trying to rake in the dough. As to the whole stunt, it could work but it would have taken hours before they were actually all released. Remember they don't know who the real Zero is. Unmasking everyone would've been a huge waste of time because "Ok everyone's mask is off...which one of you is the real Zero?" No one's going to give up their chance to leave behind the repressive government of Area 11 and so it would only be a matter of time before they're all exiled. Also, as Suzaku pointed out, all that Britannia did was exile pretty much every malcontent and Black Knight in the country. No more internal struggle to worry about. And if the Black Knights start a fight from the outside, we all know which empire is the best at defeating external enemies.
*** V needed to [[spoiler: hack into the government's computer system]] to arrange for the transportation of those masks and even then he needed to set the entire thing up well in advance. In Code Geass people are apparently able to put a plan in motion mere hours after thinking it up.
* I don't understand why Britannia was so weak-willed towards the Chinese Federation, despite being portrayed as clearly stronger. So you clearly have an antagonizing country wanting to carve a piece of Japan for themselves, and Britannia seems to be in appeasement mode. You have a "rogue" Chinese general supporting an revolution and somehow that does not result in war. However, having the Chinese embassy harbor terrorists and retaliating will result in war. If the Chinese Federation is so much weaker than Britannia (to the point of pretty much selling out the country), why does it seem like Britannia is afraid of the consequences to appropriate responses?
** Britannia may be stronger, but that doesn't mean China is weak. My impression is that if they went to all-out war, Britannia would win but suffer extremely heavy losses which might end up bringing down the empire in the aftermath. Also, at the time Zero and pals claim sanctuary in the Chinese consul building, most of Britannia's military force is in the EU; if China were to launch an attack on mainland Britannia, they could conquer a substantial amount of land. Even if they didn't topple the government, Britannia would have lost a lot of territory and resources by the time the bulk of its miliatary returned from the EU, and then if they manage to force the Chinese out, they'll have to deal with a resurgent EU. The end result of this would be either Britannia being weakened by conquered by China, weakened by China and toppled by the EU, or trapped in a war on two fronts with China on the west coast and the EU on the east. Either way, Britannia loses.
* In episode 13 of the first season, Kallen walks into a warehouse Lelouch happens to be in. Luckily for Lelouch, he's partially hidden in the shadows, so Kallen doesn't realize that he's Zero. Thinking rightly that she's talking with Zero but not realizing that Zero is Lelouch, Kallen talks with Lelouch/Zero. Kallen has talked to Lelouch at school before, so why can't she deduce by the voice of Lelouch that he's Zero?
** Lelouch uses a different, deeper voice for Zero. That's why Kallen doesn't recognize him over the phone either.
** She did suspect him at first but he arranged for her to get a phone call while she was in his shower after being soaked in champain, after that she gave up on the idea that the 2 of them were the same
* Is it just me or does V.V. physically resemble Nanami from {{Revolutionary Girl Utena}} a little too closely? The character designs are uncannily similar...
* For how long was Villetta carrying Ougi's baby? It seemed like she realized she was pregnant in the last episode of the first season, and as this troper recalls, a year passes between R1 and R2. That's well above the normal gestation period for humans, so Villetta ought to have given birth...
** Easy. She slept with him after she met up with him in R2. Once she was on the Ikaruga, they may have had the chance to have fun in bed even before they betrayed Zero. And once they'd done that, she was free to wander the ship as she pleased. Add to that the month that Lelouch was gone plus the couple of weeks that he was emperor before saying that he was going to join the UFN, and Ougi had plenty of time to get her pregnant in R2. No, it doesn't make sense that she would still be pregnant from R1, but she had plenty of time to get it done in R2.
* During the infamous Table-Kun scene, why was Nina masturbating in the student council room instead of her own room or a bathroom? She was lucky it was Nunnaly, and not Lelouch or Sayoko, that walked in on her.
** The lights were off, and it was at night, so everyone else was presumably in their rooms. She had no reason to suspect that anyone would come in at that hour, whereas she might have a roommate (like Shirley does), and people might be using the bathrooms.
* This Troper is more bothered by the Table-kun scene's very ''existence''. '''Why the hell was it ever there in the first place???'''
* During the TimeSkip did Charles personally rewrite everyone's memories at Ashford, or what?
** Maybe his Geass works like Lelouch's in that it can be used on multiple people at once. He would just have to arrange all the students and staff to the auditorium, visit the place icognito, and tell them to replace their memories about Nunnally with memories about Rolo.
** Most of the students left after R1. The student council members are pretty much the only ones who stayed. That's why Suzaku didn't know much of anyone when he came back. The emperor only had to Geass the student council members. A covert trip to Ashford or summoning them to see him during a visit to Japan would be easy enough. He would then alter their memories to replace Nunnally with Rolo and off they go none-the-wiser. It ''is'' a bit odd that it's just the student council members who stayed (though at least it's obvious why Lelouch and Milly stayed), but the fact that most of the students left for Britannia after the whole Black Rebellion mess isn't all that hard to believe. In any case, it's pretty clear that he Geassed the student council members and it's clearly stated that pretty much everyone else left for Britannia after R1, so no one at Ashford in R2 except the student council wouldn't have known Nunnally anyway.
*** This one is actually sufficiently explained in the Manga (the original one, Vol. 7) After Jeremiah un-Geasses Shirley, she has a flashback sequence where, apparently, the Emperor goes to Ashford Academy to make a speech, then "[[NotMakingThisUpDisclaimer his eyes flashed]]." That's it. Kind of anticlimactic, but whatever.
*** I believe it's pretty much inferred in the montage of suppressed memories flooding back into her head, which includes the face of Charles, in supposed reference to him rewriting everyone's memories.
* Aside from moar angst related reasons[[hottip:* :which, granted, is practically the basis of causalty for everything on this show]], why ''did'' they put FREYA on Lancelot? Lloyd lampshades how stupid this is, pointing out quite reasonably that there's no reason to graft a strategic weapon onto a tactical one, but then they go and do it anyway. The closest to a good reason they offer is to have FLEIJA in Suzaku's hands, because they all think he's a trustworthy and outstanding guy (despite [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder massive evidence to the contrary]]), but they could have just given him a detonator. Also, why isn't there any [[IncrediblyLamePun fallout]] for Suzaku for this--are Knights of Rounds really immune to standing trial for ''killing millions''? (Actually, that would explain how Luciano was still a member...and be a pretty good example of how friggin' corrupt that system is.)
** To this troper it seemed that Nina had already installed FLEIJA on Lancelot without asking anybody's permission, and Lloyd was chastising her for doing it, not for wanting to do it. Presumably there still wasn't a fixed launching system for the missile, so she had to improvise by attaching it to a Knightmare, instead. And as for the Rounds, considering that they work directly for the Emperor, it would make sense that only the Emperor would have the right to chastise or punish them, the Britannian system being what it is. Any chance that Charles would be bothered by some mundane matter, like few million dead?
*** Plus, there's the chance Schneizel told Nina to attach it to FLEIJA, since destroying the Tokyo settlement [[XanatosRoulette all worked according to his plan]].
* Why didn't Lelouch just Geass Schneizel while they were playing chess, when the whole purpose of the game was to get rid of Suzaku (who was left in an entirely different room during the game), so that he could Geass people freely? It shouldn't be too difficult to mask it as an innocent sentence considering the circumstances: "After a few moves you will lose and have to submit to my requests!", just for example.
** I think the big hole opening in his mask might be suspicious...
** Was anyone behind Schneizel to see it? Most of the time other people just watched the sideshow through a monitor, as far as I was able to determine.
** Suzaku was there and commanding Schneizel followed by Schneizel actually ''doing it'' would be a dead giveaway that he used his Geass and thus that he was Lelouch. Suzaku wouldn't even need to see the slit in the mask to figure that out. Still, I suppose that you could argue that he should have just Geassed everyone when he first entered the room and had them restrain Suzaku (though that might have been a bit hard for them), but at that point in the show, Lelouch isn't generally Geassing people to permanently follow his orders. In any case, in order to Geass Schneizel, he needed to deal with Suzaku somehow because he couldn't afford for the emperor to find out that he was Zero because then Nunnally would be in danger.
* Does Lelouch not realise what the phrase 'United States' means? Japan appears to have been united long before the Britannian invasion, so if it were to gain independence, it would be a case of a single nation breaking away from TheEmpire. In the cases of the real-life United States (namely America and Mexico, and almost Australia), it was a case of several nations breaking away from Britain or Spain and then deciding to unite under a single government for strength. Why, then, does Lelouch want to establish the 'United States of Japan'? What nations other than Japan would it include?
** Ya. It's a bit odd. United States is obviously a collection of, well, united states - which Japan isn't. So, it's definitely odd. He compounds the error by talking about United India, United China (though that one does make ''some'' sense), United everything that had been in the Chinese Federation. My guess is that the writers were thinking that United States equals freedom and since Lelouch was creating a free country, it would be the United States. And of course, being Japan, it would have to be the United States of Japan rather than the United States of America. Still, it's definitely weird.
*** A United India would obviously include Pakistan and Bangladesh, maybe even Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Bhutan and Nepal. It's not that strange. India was a lot of different states back when the british began to divide & conquer.
*** You could make an argument for some of the countries he lists as being "United States of X" making sense, but quite a few do not - Japan being at the top of the list. Lelouch basically seems to have tagged "United States of" onto the front of the name of every country he intends to have join him. He's definitely ''not'' using the term "United States" correctly.
*** Heck, 'United States of India' would be a reasonable descriptor for RealLife, modern-day India. India is already divided into a number of autonomous states, which have about the same status as the states of America and Australia, the oblasts of Russia, and the provinces of China and Canada, plus many of them have their own languages. When India gained independence, they just decided to go with 'Republic of India' instead. 'United States of Japan', however, makes no sense at all.
** Maybe the Ryukyu Kingdom, which Japan annexed in 1879? Maybe the Ainu in Code Geass have their own autonomous republic, like the inuit's Nunavut in Canada? Sakhalin? Parts of Korea? Micronesia? Nauru? Marshall Islands? There's a lot of possibilities, really, considering that Code Geass follows a different timeline, and that Japan historically controlled a vast empire in Asia and Oceania during the post-WW1-period.
** The United States moniker is simply used as a reference to the original name for the United Nations. The US already had that name, so they went with UN. Japan should be called the ''United State of Japan'' or ''The State of Japan''. It's just a mistranslation. The USJ is supposed to be a constituent state of the new confederate United Nations that Lulu planned to establish; he wasn't the one using it wrong, the translators/writers were.
** [[{{Synaesthetic}} This troper]] always figured it was nothing more than a ShoutOut to the American Revolution--a colony of the British Empire declaring its independence and fighting a war to that effect. Since Area 11/Japan is a colony of the Holy Empire of Britannia, it makes sense. I doubt it has anything to do with the impotent RealLife United Nations.
** The term the Japanese use for "United States" actually means something closer to "Republic". It doesn't actually mean that there are any states involved.
* This is probably just bad translation, since I was watching a fan-subbed version, but Lelouch mentions that Kirihara was called "Benedict Kirihara" by the Japanese people due to his (supposed) role as an accomplace to Britanian colonization. In a world where America lost the revolution, it seems unlikely that the name Benedict Arnold would still be synonimous with "traitor."
** He could have still been a traitor, just a really lousy one. It's possible that he ended up betraying Britannia to America, resulting in his unpopularity. In our Britain and Canada he is often treated with a positive historical viewpoint, while in America he is the big Traitor.
** I saw the English dub and I don't recall any mention of Benedict. You probably just had a dodgy fansub.
** The nickname is simply "Kirihara the Traitor"; that fansub was definitely taking liberties.
* Bismarck's swordfight with Suzaku in episode 20. Why didn't the "live on" command just make Suzaku run away to begin with? Was Bismarck using his geass or not (if not, why did his right eye light up; if so, what was the point of the eyes sewn shut)? How was he able to use his ''sword'' as a ''baseball bat'' without cutting Suzaku in two? Most importantly, though, is the way it ends: Bismarck has Suzaku defeated and at his mercy, declares his intention to kill him, and then the scene cuts away, and when it comes back Bismarck is...on the phone? How'd that happen? "Hang on, I gotta take this." And then there's the setup for the fight itself: 1. Suzaku thinks the best way to assassinate someone is to make a big speech about despair and sin and all, giving someone time to move in to block your strike (or was Bismarck just BehindTheBlack the whole time? That's really what it seems like), and 2. ''Charles was already immortal'', so RuleOfFunny means that Bismarck should have just stood back and left Suzaku to just stab the emperor a bunch of times while Chuck sighs and just lumbers over to the gate.
%% I have no idea why I put this much thought into this.
** To be frank, quite a few things about that episode didn't make sense. Instead of going directly for the Emperor, Lelouch spent a lot of time geassing soldiers and wreaking havoc in the Britannian military... why? Just to make a dramatic appearance? The whole thing with Marianne suddenly restoring C.C.'s memories looks like ScotchTape. The Black Knights charge after hearing the news of Lelouch's diversion, leading up to... absolutely nothing. I guess that was among the parts that suffered the most from the compression of the second half of R2, leading to all unresolved issues in the Britannia vs. Black Knights story being dropped to make way for the Zero Requiem arc. But to answer some specific questions: 1) Bismarck stepped away from Suzaku when Lelouch made his over-the-top appearance. 2) This is Suzaku we're talking about. "Covert" is not about him. He can't kill someone without first making a dramatic speech about how wrong that person is.
*** The soldiers were there to stop people like Bismarck and the crew of the Great Britannia from interfering. Because they were right there, and Lelouch has no chance in hell of defeating them.
* When did this show forget that Cornelia is evil? She's ''evil''! She is shown throughout the first season as doing nothing but bad things. All she has is her MoralityPet sister, and that doesn't make up for all her actions. And yet you wouldn't think she was a bad person by the end of R2.
** She's not evil. She's ruthless. Fair difference there.
*** She goes past simply ruthless when she kills civilians (who she treats like crap because they're Elevens) just to reach the rebels.
*** Some of this stuff is just because it's policy. Cornelia was wishing for Euphemia to become Empress so that she would reform Brittaina's policies, and was against using Damocles to just indiscriminately kill innocent people. She's not really acting on her own beliefs in the first season, her plans until the SAZ incident are somewhat obviously to protect Euphemia until her own point in the lineage comes up, then stand aside and let Euphy rule.
*** Rewatch season 1. She didn't even flinch when she went through with her atrocious actions, and [[YouRebelScum was a habitual]] [[FantasticRacism racial slur slinger]] while she was at it. R2 was simply a mixed case of her refocusing herself on taking down the Geass Cult, and her former characterizations and acts [[DependingOnTheWriter being swept aside]]. [[KarmaHoudini She never does repent or atone for her acts, and is one of the reasonably happy survivors at the end in spite of that, sadly.]]
*** Not to mention things like forcing Suzaku to exterminate the JLF despite their readiness to surrender, and later, to execute Tohdoh.
*** Lelouch has done things like that too in order get his goals accomplished. Recall when he blew up a shipload of allies? Obliterated nearby towns in order to win battles? Cornelia merely doesn't have Lelouch's desire for good PR. Her goals focus on the continued success of her nation; she reconsidered after the Euphemia incident.
*** Lelouch stained his own hands quite a lot, and he geassed Britannians to do nasty things, but he never made the Black Knights do something that would go against their beliefs, be it with Geass or force. Cornelia, on the other hand, wanted a Japanese officer under her command to execute his compatriot and old friend for no reason.
*** That, and Lelouch still had the moral upper ground in spite of his methods, not to mention that he had been through more adversity in his life. While Cornelia sought to uphold the Social Darwinist rule of Britannia, even to the point where she yelled at Euphie of all people for opposing it, Lelouch opposed it. Rewatch Stage 7, where Lelouch flashes back to his childhood where his father Charles declares him dead for confronting him about the death of Marianne and crippling of Nunnally, and Cornelia ordering the massacre of Saitama ghetto civilians and killing terrorists who have already surrendered, for basic differences in morality. And as I've stated on other pages elsewhere here on TVTropes, while Lelouch, though admittedly by choice and even questionable means at that point, sacrifices himself in the end for the greater good in atonement for the destruction he has caused, Cornelia never appropriately suffers or repents for her purely barbaric actions, thus making her one of the show's biggest Karma Houdinis.
*** I'm begining to suspect that the writers put some sort of spell on the anime that deliberatly made Lelouch seem more appealing than any other of the many characters who commit attrocities. It seems like whenever one of Lelouch's evil opposers is bashed, it will be brought up that Lelouch himself has commited unspeakable evil and the response will be "Yes he has, BUT...(insert claims that it was all for the greater good or any other reason that makes Lelocuh seem morally superior to everyone else.) Why fans can't just admit that Lelouch is a psychotic, corrupted, borderline evil ByronicHero and still love him for it will always be a mystery to me.
*** They did put a spell on him. It's called ''making him the protagonist''. Naturally people are going to look more favorably on his actions than they do others. Just to invoke your "Yes he has, BUT" analogy, people do this because for all the horrible things he does (I won't go into the final arc, that a whole different story), it is against an enemy that is a hundred times worse. When you go to the other side for people like Suzaku, you have someone who's trying to be righteous while enforcing the law these monsters set up. As for "psychotic, corrupted, borderline evil", only the last part is, self-admittedly I might add, the least bit accurate. Lelouch is hardly psychotic, and corruption applies to almost everyone in the cast.
*** But being the protagonist or focused character does not automatically make him the best person in the series. If that were so, than all Kira supporters in the DeathNote fandom would be justified. While it's true that Lelouch's enemies like his father, mother, and half-brother are all worse than he is, it doesn't mean that ''all'' of the horrible extremist things Lelouch does in his rebellion against them that effects or destroys innocent lives are justified or even nessecary, despite what Lelouch may think. And I never once mentioned Suzaku either (I don't really like him). Oh, and ''not psychotic?'' The guy breaks into hysterical, over-the-top maniacal laughter and gives several [[PsychoticSmirk psychotic smirks]] on many occasions. What do you call that?
*** I call it [[LargeHam ham]], and it tastes good. There's a difference between using the smirk and actually being psychotic. No, not everything he does is justified, and I don't claim otherwise. But as I said, being the protagonist is going to deflect critism, or at least soften the blows. As is pointed out, despite these horrible things (not all of which are even intentional, mind you, or even that bad in the case of Narita), Lelouch does often have the moral high ground, which is why trying to paint him as some completely out of it monster just doesn't fly.
*** Not saying it's bad to be a LargeHam, but he'd have to be a little bit psychotic if he feels the need to do it so often. And I don't like to see Lelouch painted as a CompleteMonster either. He's probably my favorite character. I just don't think that being the protagonist is a good enough excuse to gloss over his borderline villanious actions and behaviour. If that were done in canon, it'd lead to a DesignatedHero, and if done by fans, it's disrespectful to a character whose major character arc involves his soul being corrupted by an evil power he uses. And it's also annoying how so many rabid Lulufans paint characters like Suzaku, Ougi, or even Kallen when she was against Lelouch in an insanely overly-negative light just because they oppose the protagonist. A good viewer should look at things from other characters' points of view, even the evil ones.
*** Kallen is a valid argument. Suzaku on the other hand deserves some sort of criticism as he is downright self-contradictory, and does things too often to fulfill a death wish of his, which, combined with his ridiculous PlotArmor, make him an unnecessary SpannerInTheWorks who ruins things for Lelouch just when he could get favorable results. Perhaps nowhere is this more evident than in R2 18, when he accidentally sets off FLEIJA on Tokyo because he was too stubborn to retreat from battle. Neither of these two, however, compare to Ohgi, who, originally the OnlySaneMan amongst the Black Knights, loses the plot once he falls for Villetta, which causes him to do some very irrational things, no more so than [[SwissMessenger when he along with Villetta mindlessly back up Schneizel's questionable claims against Lelouch and ends up causing the betrayal]] that eventually leads Lelouch down the path of the Zero Requiem, when Lelouch might have otherwise chosen something less-bloody and self-sacrificing. And in spite of all of this, Ohgi and Villetta get the happiest ending, while Lelouch is dead and seen as the worst person ever.
*** In a perfect world, maybe. A lot of Lelouch's misdeeds were rather needless (killing the JLF just to get a shot at Cornelia, cult massacre). I'd argue against him being corrupted by that power. He's quick to use it, but he's also inhumanly restricted when it comes to putting to use (up until Turn 19, anyway). Most people given such power would not be so careful in their usage. What corrupts him is the parade of ridiculous DeusExMachina that foil and ruin his life. As for painting other characters in a negative light, such is the fandom.
*** He's careful in using it because he's smart. I'd still say that he was indeed corrupted by the power somewhat (as indicated by his immediate facial change from shock to PsychoticSmirk when he realized what kind of power he'd recieved), and many of the DeusAngstMachina that traumatizes him are usually brought on by himself. You know, an unfortunate side effect of his terrorism and rebellions. And I know FanDumb is the easy explaination, but I'm still disturbed by [[MisAimedFandom the sheer number of fans who seem to share the same views of "Lulu is all good and always in the right, and anyone who opposes him are complete pricks who are always in the wrong."]]
*** On the note of his first PsychoticSmirk context is everything. He's backed into a corner by an entire squad of guys who basically told him "Hi, you've seen this girl so time to die". He suddenly gets a power not only to escape, but to turn the tables on them. Honestly tell me you wouldn't brandish such a gleeful "oh you are so fucked now" smirk in that situation!
*** Lelouch is not the only one to blame for what happens to him. Whether through sheer stupidity, simple ignorance, or deliberate malice, half the horrible crap that happens to him is at best tangentially related to his own actions. If you're going to place blame, spread it as is appropriate.
*** He's not to blame for everything, true. I was meaning that he usually gets himself into his own messes that he has to get himself (and anyone else caught up in them) out of. It's part of being [[VillainProtagonist who]] [[ByronicHero he]] [[TheAtoner is.]]
*** I think usually is laying it a little thick. The second half of R2 was practically a TraumaCongaLine for Lelouch. In spite of his errors, at least he was trying, only for various factors, including Schneizel, Kanon, and a certain dumb struck by love character screwed it up for him. Then he was [[DespairEventHorizon too far gone to really do so anymore]].
*** I feel like I'm late for the party, but what were all the problems people had with R2 when it first aired? I have my own problems with parts of R2, but no series is perfect. Is it just the stuff on the DarthWiki/WallBanger page?
** A lot of viewers felt that the more enjoyable elements of the first season went out the window in favor of escalating overwrought drama moments, hence the "Trainwreck" meme. Not that I agree, of course, but I had to listen to a LOT of whining during the airing.
*** The way I see it, CodeGeass was always a shallow, incomprehensable, and overblown anime; combining the giant mechas and war stories of Gundam with the Xanatos Gambits of Death Note in a convulted way. But the first season was at least well put together and could be really fun to watch due to [[LargeHam hamminess]], NarmCharm, and [[MagnificentBastard Zero's antics]]. R2 cranked all of the series' flaws up to the max (as well as adding new flaws like LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, CharacterDerailment, and contrived plot twists) and the story became less SoBadItsGood and more [[DarthWiki/WallBanger head-bangingly stupid.]] There's a reason almost everyone sees it as a horribly mangled Trainwreck. Personally, I found it's finale to be spectacular and a fitting conclusion to the story but that doesn't excuse the rest up R2 being so nonsensical. It's kinda like {{Naruto}}, actually. A flawed series but the first half is superior to their timeskipped second half.
*** I love how some people say "''almost everyone''" when they really mean "''almost everyone I know who agrees with me''" because, whether you like it or not, Code Geass remains a popular show and most viewers enjoyed it. Just look at all the polls. Not that I place much value on whatever the relative or absolute majority thinks, either way, but there are plenty of people who like the show even with all its flaws. And actually, it's been conveniently forgotten that the whole "trainwreck" meme originated at some point during the airing of the first season. It just became more popular thanks to all the problems in R2, including the rushed pacing, increasingly over-the-top stunts and the lack of explanations. Still, a lot of the utter hatred for R2 has become so exaggerated to the point of being irrational and unwarranted: Something that you didn't like happened? ''RAGE''. Even if there is a valid explanation of some sort, you may not care because it's already angered you. It seems some didn't even try to pay attention after a certain point out of disgust or anger, which doesn't make for good analysis. That only creates endless debates about the show's flaws, both real and perceived, in an environment of intolerance and mutual disrespect. Personally, I admit that Code Geass was never particularly deep and R2 was disappointing, in and of itself, but the overall story still had some interesting themes and characters that made it worth watching. It's a pity that a lot of the original potential was wasted, but I just hope the next Code Geass project suffers from less problems and manages to be enjoyable without so much controversy.
** R2 is a the topic of one of CG's biggest examples of a split fanbase. See, most people can readily admit that Code Geass R2 had many problems, but the split comes from whether or not you were able to still enjoy R2. Many can't for its shortcomings, others still love and enjoy it in spite of its shortcomings. I for example loved 2, plotholes and all. I wasn't bothered by the giant cast and in fact, the intoduction of so many new characters pleased me pesonally. Half the isses are actual technical and quiality flaws, and the other half are more a matter of personal taste, and it's the latter category that splits the base.
* What was Emperor Chuck's plan anyway? He was going to kill God? And make it so nobody could lie? What does that mean? Was he going to make everyone into a HiveMind? Make it so everyone lost their imaginations? He doesn't even have that kind of power, he can only effect memory.
** Geass influences the mind. Using the Thought Elevator, he can access every mind everywhere. What he was going to do... isn't made very clear. Merge everybody into a HiveMind, perhaps; it doesn't seem beyond the power of Geass. (Just make everyone mindreaders, like Mao, and let the elevator do the legwork of connecting them.)
* So is that girl doomed to make those marks on that forever? Is she stuck going to that wall no matter what for the rest of her life? If she wants to travel abroad, is she compelled to travel back to that wall?
** Yes. Her parents think she's sleepwalking.
* At the end of R1, the Guren lost its Radiation Wave arm in a fight with the Lancelot. How did it get it back by the beginning of R2? Rakshata was off the radar. Did the Black Knights have a spare?
** Rakshata didn't drop off the rader ''immediately''. The Black Knights probably didn't break apart cleanly; it's not outside the realm of reason that she fixed the arm before she left.
*** Alternately, they took the arm from the Pre-Production Gekka from ''Lost Colors'' and slapped it onto the Guren.
*** The above, if not necessarily accurate to the show, is pretty much what happened. Look at the arm in R1 vs R2. The former has a five-fingered claw. The latter has three regular fingers. It's a pallette-swapped version of the Gekka arm.
* So like, what was Gino's deal anyway? At first it looked like he was going to be the happier counterpart to Suzaku, but that didn't go anywhere. Then it looked like he was going to be the one figuring out the connection between Lelouch and Zero, but that didn't go anywhere. ''Then'' it looked like something was possibly going on between him and Kallen, but nothing ever came of it. '''Then''' it looked like he was going to be the focal point of people feeling conflicted by the new regime change, but nothing ever came of it. And he didn't get an ending. So why did he keep appearing?
* How come all of the Ashford girls are eagerly telling each other they all have dates arranged with Lelouch, even though it never seems to cross their minds that none of them have a monopoly over Lelouch? Shirley is the only one who's genuinely shocked and angered; are none of the girls furious that Lelouch appears to be cheating on all of them (although it's really Sayoko who's responsible).
** Considering he's canonically got his own fanclub among the girls of Ashford, they're probably not at all surprised at the multiple dates.
*** Also, his father has 108 wives. Sayoko set up 108 dates. See some similarities?
* What is it about Lelouch that attracts Shirley so much, besides his looks?
** In the first season Shirley relates a story where Lelouch witnessed a car accident caused by a young man who started berating the old couple he ran into; Lelouch's response was to get the jerk's car towed, but he did it without boasting or mocking, as if he considered standing up for the old folks to be the natural thing to do. As Suzaku himself surmises, Shirley fell for Lelouch then because she saw that he's actually a caring person beneath his aloof exterior.
* Near the end, after being shot, did Cornelia actually say that ''Schneizel'' would have made a good emperor in a time of peace? Just because peacetime would have meant that he ''probably'' wouldn't have had any particular reason to slaughter millions of civilians for kicks? Was she ''totally off her rocker?!''
** WordOfGod says that Schneizel's biggest flaw is lack of ambition; if a good idea comes along, he'll pretty much say "LetsGoWithThat", but he doesn't come up with anything amazing on his own. Perhaps Cornelia was simply lamenting the fact that the situation had resulted in Schneizel, ostensibly a good-hearted person, deciding that the best thing to do was force the world into peace at nuke-point.
* What bugs me is the fact that countless people, including quite a few on this site apparently, feel that you can foist the blame for the destruction of Tokyo entirely upon Lelouch because of the "Live!" Geass. When he first cast the Geass, it was quite literally a last-ditch attempt to prevent his and Suzaku's deaths without violating his free will, AND an attempt to stop a person whom he loved like a brother from trying to get himself killed because of his self-abasement. How the heck was he supposed to know that over a year later, Suzaku would have his hands on a bomb capable of destroying a large section of Tokyo? And before people cite his enraged orders for Kallen to kill Suzaku, A) he wasn't exactly in the best of moods after being nearly arrested due to (what he thought was) a betrayal, B) Kallen was probably going to try to kill him anyhow, and C) he had no way of knowing Suzaku would "decide" that the best way to live would be to use FLEIJA as a "warning shot". In all honesty, just like there are people who claim he's a DracoInLeatherPants, most of the people with this attitude seem to think he's a RonTheDeathEater.
** Something to add to that: by this point in the story, Suzaku A) knows he has this Geass, B) knows what triggers it, and C) does B in spite of A. This is well before the Tokyo battle. He even makes a point of complaining to Lelouch about how awful not getting to die like he wants to is during their failed reconciliation. So, one failed reconciliation later, he decides the nuke would make a good threat. Suzaku is no strategist, so we'll forgive his blatant ignorance of how a threat works (the other guy needs to be convinced you can do what you say). Then Kallen comes in and proves, even before fighting Suzaku, that she will absolutely rape anyone and anything that challenges her shiny new death machine. Of course, Suzaku must obviously challenge her (then again, Gino wanted to as well, so clearly logic is not important to pilots). Suzaku then goes to pick a fight with her, when she was expressly guarding Zero and wouldn't have spared him a glance if he'd just backed off. He's even told to retreat, but that suggestion is ignored, despite the people telling him to do so being the ones that built the death machine. A short round of ass-kicking later (which it must be noted is mostly Kallen blocking/breaking everything he hits her with), he's on the ropes. So what does he do? B, mentioned above, while carrying the nuke and having already rationalized it as his one hope. To be specific, he drops his guard so she can kill him. Suzaku has only himself to blame for what happened, because if he had kept fighting he wouldn't have had an arm to fire the weapon and kill all those people. Not that Lelouch doesn't share some of the blame for not listening, but it's definitely not the responsibility of him alone.
*** It's not the sole responsibility of ''either'' of them - they're both to blame. Suzaku was incredibly stupid in what he did, but he ''never'' would have fired it if he hadn't been geassed. And Lelouch was suffering his traditional case of losing IQ points because he's emotional. That said, given the FLEIJA has never been used before, neither of them had any idea how bad the consequences could be - and until now, the "Live" geass had never made Suzaku kill anyone. It was a tragedy that neither intended or wanted, it's both their faults equally, and so they both decided to pay the price in Zero Requiem.
*** Suzaku was given a very vivid description, and even a precise yield, of the bomb he was carrying, so he was well aware of what it would do if he ever fired it. Still, you're right that both suffer blame for the incident.
*** There's a difference between knowing theoretically what something is capable of, and actually seeing it in action. And Suzaku never was the smartest guy around. But to be blunt I think the entire debate comes down to people on one side putting all the blame on Lelouch, people on the other putting it all on Suzaku, and the instant FlameWar that ensued.
*** Suzaku at least had a fair idea of the result, even if words can't do it justice. If you want to sum it up, Lelouch's crime is ignorance and Suzaku's crime is negligence. Lelouch was (understandably) not willing to listen to Suzaku's then-outrageous claims about a weapon of mass destruction. Suzaku (again understandably) is reckless in his efforts to bring Zero to justice. Again, I agree on that last bit.
*** I wonder what it signifies, that the characters in question are more willing to accept the blame should be shared than their fanbases?
*** That's an interesting point, but rationalizing the actions of a character you like is basic nature, especially since it's somewhat difficult to admit that a character you like is morally wrong in one situation or in many. This series is especially rife with this, as almost every character of importance has committed misdeeds for various reasons and with various consequences. Given the nature of the moral conflict, people are thus likely to sympathize with one side and come down on the other(s) for their flaws while glossing over the flaws of the ones they sympathize with.
*** There's also the question of how people's actions related to their commands are controlled; for example, in order to give Lelouch her Knightmare, Viletta also hands him the key and tells him the code to activate it. The main issue here is how much Suzaku thought the FLEIJA was necessary for his survival; if he thought that he would be put into a situation where using it was the only way to survive, then he bears responsibility for firing it. However, it's difficult to predict what a Geass like "Live" would make him do, or how much danger he would need to be in before it kicks in, so it's possible that he didn't think it would trigger or thought he would do something else. As for Lelouch, it's possible he was hoping Kallen would kill Suzaku before he realized there was no other way out of his situation. The whole situation is quite complicated and thus easy to rationalize if you're sympathetic toward Lelouch or Suzaku.
*** He had already rationalized it as his one hope ("even if it means death, I won't fire it, this is atonement" about sums up his inner monologue), so he basically shot himself in the foot. Also, while it would normally be difficult to predict exactly what it would do, he had already narrowed down his options to one at that point. Lelouch flat out didn't believe Suzaku regrading the nuke, and Suzaku was obviously not going to beat Kallen. The command isn't even an issue. As he saw it, Suzaku couldn't do anything to save himself. He was wrong.
*** The nuking was the fault of Prince Schneizel. He ordered Suzaku to deploy with it and he allowed his bridge officers to encourage Suzaku to use it.
*** Schneizel told Suzaku that as a Knight of the Round, he was under no obligation to listen him, and the decision to fire F.L.E.I.J.A. was therefore his own. Schneizel [[BatmanGambit simply counted on Suzaku firing it off, knowing his nature, and goading him into it in a roundabout way]].
*** Schneizel also talked Nina into developing it and gave her the funding and what-not to build it. Oh, and he had Kanon interrupt the Kururugi shrine meet-up, when Lelouch and Suzaku were about to work together, ''and'' do so in such a way that made Lelouch lose all the trust he had in Suzaku as well as playing on Suzaku's guilt/responsibility issues.
* How does Lelouch put on contact lenses so effortlessly? From what I've seen with people who use contact lenses and such, they don't just stick it onto their eye without a mirror.
** It was asked above, and a pretty sensible answer was giving: Lelouch's eyes are ''huge'' so it's not really a problem for him.
* Just a li'l thing: when Mao is addressing CC in the fairground he mentions how he wants to run away with her to a house he has in Australia. But Mao is only about seventeen or eighteen years old, and he has the disposition of a six-year-old boy. Houses are expensive to build; it's not clear that Mao works and he never gives any clues as to the source of income. And even if he did work, there isn't really the possibility for big money in jobs that hire older teenagers. So how could he get himself a house ''overseas''?! This troper's beginning to think it's all a delusion brought about by his general craziness.
** Theres a few ways. One, blackmail some contractor with the skeletons in his closet. Mao could probably have had a decent, two-person cabin built that way. He could also have built it himself, but then it would probably be a crapsack place to live. Third, find a house that's already built and talk the residents into suicide, or just outright kill them.
*** [[http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951b6aa0be011b7a6b0afc0175 He got his gun this way]].
* Did anyone else with the the advance knowledge that Lelouch and Shirley die find the whole ShipToShipCombat completely pointless?
* How was Suzaku able to pursue a career as an active duty soldier while still in high school? I'd imagine it would have been a full-time job.
** He was absent a lot, and wasn't even schooled until Euphemia threw him in.
* Why does everyone hate ''Shirley'' so much?! I realize that some of her naive behavior can be annoying (I personally hate the NaiveEverygirl trope and the {{Moe}} [[TheIngenue Ingenue]] trope) but she's a frickin' [[TheWoobie Woobie]] [[TheMessiah Messiah]] and there are still people who hate her so much they're willing to [[FanWank wank]] all over the faces of [[PsychopathicManchild Mao]] and [[{{Tykebomb}} Rolo]] just for [[{{Understatement}} giving her a hard time]]! [[FlatWhat WHAT?!]] Lemme repeat: WOOBIE! MESSIAH!
** Some people either see her as an annoyingly ClingyJealousGirl, blame her for having no clue what's going on and nearly getting Lelouch killed for it in the first episode, or both.
* Given that Lelouch uses a vocal distorter as Zero, to the point that Kallen, who talked to both regularly, and even had a conversation with "Zero" with his mask off and never even thought they sounded similar, why would the black knights immediately recognize Lelouch's voice in a decidedly less-hammy tone than Zero delivers? Zero, leader of the black knights and "Lelouch trying desperately and sadly to get Suzaku to protect Nunnally" don't sound very similar, so wouldn't the Black Knights have been bewildered by something that sounded like a shitty imitation of Zero's voice with the wrong inflection being presented as evidence?
** It sounds close enough for them to connect the dots, and at that point they were looking for a scapegoat anyway. Plus they didn't buy the recording at first. It took Ohgi backing Schneizel up to seal the deal.
** The similarities between Zero's and Lelouch's voices bugged this troper throughout both seasons. Granted there are some differences in tone, but essentially anyone who was paying attention and had heard both Lelouch and Zero speak (like Kallen and Shirley had) should have been able to immediately make the connection. That should have been a dead giveaway. In addition, unless Lelouch had a new voice alteration system installed on the mask [[spoiler: before his death]], then there is NO WAY Zerozaku is going to sound anything like Lelouch did. So unless they are fully prepared to accept a "new" Zero, wouldn't the Black Knights, or for that matter the entire world who'd been following Zero/Lelouch's exploits, become instantly suspicious?
*** Actually, when she's suspicious, Kallen admits to herself that she doesn't have the hearing required to get a good match. And that's before the voice modulator. Throw in speaking to both Lelouch and Zero in the same room, and thinking that they're the same requires some really severe out-of-the-box thinking.
** The vocal distorter he used was a piece of cloth over his mouth not the best vocal disguise
* Why, why, why did Kallen have to get captured in Turn 10 of R2? (Because of which, made that whole episode a massive spiral of hate that doesn't make much sense.) I mean, I can understand trying to make it tougher for Lelouch and the Black Knights to continue on, but why did it have to be for 8 episodes? Hell, her upgraded Guren Flight Enabled got a total of TWO uses, once in Turn 6 when it was introduced and in Turn 10 when it's captured, making it an almost pointless upgrade (bad pacing be damned, that shouldn't have occured). So they take her out of the fray for 8 episodes, have some pointless FetishFuel bondage (no thank you), Suzaku being a dick to her (later getting himself beat up, but even then that really wasn't anything special), almost (possibly) getting raped by the {{Twilight}} reject Lucanio, getting overall "I serve no point to the story" douchebag (if somebody blatently tries to make it clear he wants in a girl's pants, then he is a total douchbag) Gino's "attention", ALMOST getting assassinated by uber-bitch Alicia Lohmeyer, AND FINALLY getting out only to have the Black Knights betray Zero/Lelouch. I mean, Lelouch said "Oh I'm gonna rescue you Kallen" and forgot about her after 2-3 episodes and focused on the Geass Cult (making my least favorite arc and least favorite minor character/line in Kinoshita and his "THIS IS.... A MASSACRE!"). I mean, the manga handled this story way better in my opinion, thanks to no Knightmares, Kallen has no plot-device "Out of Power" and never gets captured, [[spoiler: Xing-Ke joins up with Zero after he crashes the wedding (presumably Geassed), he then proceeds to kill the Eunuchs like he did in the anime, afterwards Zero, C.C., and Kallen sing a peace treaty with the Chinese Federation and they up and leave]]. I mean, was there any other reason for it other than "We need the hottest character to make way for an unpopular Black Woman and a 13-Year old Pedobait crybaby, so lets get her captured and sort of forget about her! All the good shows do that!"
** To be fair to a few of those points, Lelouch explictly went back to Japan within the same episode because he needed to rescue her. That he did so while also planning a complete invasion is just his style. Lelouch forgetting about her for two-three episodes is fairly understandable given Shirley DIED right in front of him. And when it came down to it he had a solid plan for her rescue. It's a badly written series of events to be sure, but at least some of it is justified.
*** Lelouch didn't come back to Japan till Episode 11, and because of Sayoko's meddling, ended up messing with Shirley (Along with about the entire Female Student Population.) Along with the Filler-Knight and Rei-Ripoff being... themselves at the school, I guess that put plans to a halt. After Shirley had died, however, he didn't specifically need to take down the Geass Cult, he really could've waited until he had gotten Kallen back, and then taken down the Cult (Assumably going by the Manga story, where Kallen has no clue of it since it was kept secret from her.). But I will put most of the blame in Bad Writing. R2 was good and all, but the First season is just better written. I assume had the writing for R2 been similar to Season one's, had Kallen been captured she would've been rescued soon after her capture, allowing her to keep her ActionGirl status and not sink into FauxActionGirl Status for a chunk of the season, leaving other characters to * briefly* fill her place.
*** He was headed back in the same episode, specifically for the reason that Kallen needed rescue. He says so. That he gets there next episode is a matter of pacing, not procrastiation. Sayoko's meddling is not something he could have planned for and he couldn't very well ignore it. After Shirley died, he was griefstriken and looking to punish someone for it. You can't seriously expect him to behave logically in that situation when he never has before. The rest, as you say, is just bad writing.
*** I know that, But he couldn't have up and left the Chinese Federation with out the Shinkiro, or any knowledge that Kallen was handed over to the Britannians (Which didn't happen till Episode 11) I was just fixing an erroneous statement saying after Kallen got captured he just went to Area 11 again to save her. He had to finish the war against the Eunuchs first. Also, anybody find it humorous that after Diethard (Idiotically) suggests forgetting about their ''best'' pilot and leaving her to die. He has a bruise on his face afterwards? What happened there? I can only assume somebody (Maybe Ohgi) clocked him for saying that.
*** Diethard had a bruise? Never noticed.
* What happened in a few short months that Suzaku goes from being in over his head in an on-foot fight against Bismarck, to just annihilating the guy fairly effortlessly in a Knightmare even with the full effect of his geass?
** Simple. Must have been part of his going after results and using his Geass command as a cheat, rather than acting in spite of or against it.
** There's a big difference between those two fights. However superhuman Suzaku is, Bismarck is bigger, stronger, and faster than he is on foot. Suzaku was fighting a battle he could not win and damn well knew it. In their second fight, Suzaku was piloting a vastly superior Knightmare and the only reason Bismarck could even keep up is because he could see the future. Once Suzaku activated his Geass, he could push his Knightmare to the limits and render even seeing the future a useless skill.
* [[spoiler:Suzaku's "Live!" Geass order forces him to try to stay alive at all costs. Given what we know about it so far, doesn't that mean he'll have to try to obtain C.C.'s immortality eventually at any cost? ]]
** Suzaku's "Live!" Geass only activates when he A) has given up on living or B) is in mortal peril. Secondly, as [[spoiler:Shirley]] shows, the command cannot save someone from dying. So by the time he'd get to the point where his old age would activate it, he'd be far too old to do anything about it. Taking the Code requires not only having an actual Geass, but evolving it to a point where the transfer could take place. Moreover, he doesn't even know about the existence of the Code, so he wouldn't know that he '''could''' take C.C.'s immortality.
** Curious that Lelouch doesn't simply command 'Obey everything I ever tell you to do.' or something similar, to avoid his power's one-time-use syndrome.
*** Originally, Lelouch refrained from using it in this way because he doesn't actually like the idea of twisting other people's will to his own, and hence only gives short term commands. He starts to use his power to make people his full time slaves after the Black Knights betray him on the suspicion of doing so, at which point he crosses the DespairEventHorizon [[TheUnfettered and throws his inhibitions out the window]], [[spoiler:as he plans on [[DeathSeeker dying very soon]]]].
** If the Celts beat back the Roman invasion, why do they come to call themselves Britannia, the Latin name for Britain? That's like America defeating Germany then changing its name to Ameri''k''a. Not exactly the most obvious of outcomes.
*** We don't know enough about the history one way or another. Maybe the world adopted the Latin name because previously, the British Isles didn't really have a single, cohesive name. Besides, you'd prefer 'Albion'?
*** Britannia is also the name for a (relatively) popular anthropomorphic version of Britain. Like Uncle Sam... but female.
*** If you read the [[AllThereInTheManual Collector's Booklets]] it states that the references to the Celts defeating the Romans and the new Imperial Calendar date to the first Emperor of the "Britannian" Dynasty, Ricardo von Britannia in 1813. Since he was not a member of the previous Tudor Dynasty, all of the references to the King of the Celts was probably propaganda to make him seem more like a legitimate heir to the throne. The real place where the history of Code Geass seems to split from our world (other than the existence of [[GreenRocks sakuradite]]) is the birth of Henry IX, the son of Queen Elizabeth I.
*** And on top of that, it claims that there were 98 Emperors of Britannia. [[spoiler: 100, if you count Lelouch and Nunnally.]] If that were even remotely true, Britannian Emperors remain in power for 20 years on average over the course of the 2000 years since the supposed founding of Britannia. Charles is 35 years older than Schneizel. So unless dying early and leaving everything to your sibling is common... yeah. Especially compared to real life British royalty.
*** Considering that England/Britain had 53 Kings/Queens/Lords Protector/Emperors/Empresses between 925 and 1837, that's not particularly over-the-top. Even since then it's not that far out - Victoria was Queen 64 years, Elizabeth II 58 and counting, in between them? 4 Kings in 51 years.
* While Lelouch's MemoryGambit to beat Mao and save Nunnally was totally awesome, did he even actually need to play the game to engage the deactivation switch? In theory he could have reached up and slapped his end of the scale and that would be that. Now it might have gotten him shot and Mao may have been lying about it deactivating the bomb but it still seems odd the thought never crossed Lelouch's mind.
** The second it did, Mao would slap his first. Boom.
** How do we know Mao didn't setup both to set off the bomb?

[[WMG:Code Geass and alternate history]]
* Okay, so this timeline starts off with Ceasar not conquering Britain. One can reasonably assume that Britain will stay Celtic possibly indefinitely and that, given that the butterfly effect will mean differant Roman screwing around in the chaotic tribal stew of ancient Germania, any tribe which overruns Britain need not even be Germanic, let alone Saxon. And we have a Duke of Essex, that is, a Roman Military Leader of the East Saxons ''how'',exactly? Let's not even start on Queen Bess and Napoleon Bonie being born and ruling after many centuries of changed history. According to the purist interpretation, no-one will ever be born the same after history changes (there are a zillion sperm vying for the place here). According to the flexible interpretation... the Tudors won't come to power and there won't be a French Revolution as we know it, leaving aside fathers and mothers never having an opportunity to meet. I have several times added a short and polite example to the page for "DidNotDoTheResearch". For all its merits as a series, CG has simply not looked up how history and alternate history are supposed to work. Can somebody tell me why these keep being deleted?
** While I agree in principle, you're arguably being very picky about it. It's not totally implausible that things would turn out to be very similar but still divergent enough to get the world of Code Geass that we know rather than the real world. It's a classic case of [[AlternateHistory alternate history]]. Sure, the probability of so many things staying the same isn't high, but it isn't ''zero''. The writers said that it went that way, so it went that way. It may be implausible, but it's not impossible. They already have crazy stuff like magical powers which can compel people to do whatever you want. Code Geass' alternate history is nothing in comparison to that.
** I'm being prickly because it really does defy common sense. Without a Roman Empire in Britain, you wont get English Dukes, even if by some incredible convergence you still get England. Magical powers are something about which I can willingly suspend my disbelief. Of course with slightly more difficulty I can suspend my alternate-history disbelief and enjoy the show, but what's bugging me is not so much the error as the fact that my attempts to politely point it out being swept away by overly zealous fans.
*** Well, I certainly concur that if you were to actually go back in time and somehow alter history at the point that Code Geass' universe diverges from ours and make history diverge in the same way at that point, the odds of us getting anything like the alternate history of Code Geass are astronomically low. The farther back in time the divergence, the greater the differences will be by the time you get to the point in history that Code Geass takes place at. So, the odds are definitely against it, but it's not necessarily ''impossible'' (unlike Geass and the like since that's pure fantasy regardless of how cool it is). However, it's quite typical of [[AlternateHistory alternate histories]] to diverge fairly significantly in a number of ways and yet have a lot of the same people with a lot of stuff the same. The AlvinMaker books are a great example. So, Code Geass' use of AlternateHistory isn't exactly abnormal, but it ''is'' probably a bit unique in how far back it goes. Usually such histories are a couple of hundred years at most while the point at which Code Geass' history diverges from ours is at least two millenia ago. So, arguably, Code Geass is a bit of an extreme case. But still, I don't think that it's unreasonable for the writers to say that that's how it went. Of course, I do think that the whole AlternateHistory aspect of it is one of the coolest things in Code Geass. In any case, I think that you have a very valid point: Code Geass' AlternateHistory is unlikely to the point of absurdity if you're really looking at the likelihood of such a thing happening if you were to alter time at the point which Code Geass' history diverges from ours. However, while it's highly improbable, it's not impossible, and it works quite well.
*** Ahem. England was established by the Angle and Saxon settlers - the name ''England'' is a corruption of ''Angleland''. The Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes who arrived from central Europe about a century after the fall of the Roman Empire; it's entirely possible they integrated themselves into the culture, rather like the Viking settlers in Ireland, thus allowing the descendants of the Celtic super-king to remain on the throne even if England shifts to being Germanic. The dukes could have been introduced some time later by French invaders. The national language of Britannia seems to be modern English, indicating that its history was predominantly Germanic and French rather than Celtic.
** It's quite simple: the occupation of Britain by Rome was in no way an important historical event. Julius Caesar was just being macho; the actual occupation didn't happen for a good while after the "official" declaration of it's addition to the Empire. Therefore, the rest of history could still happen as it ended up going down (right to Elizabeth I's son). The Anglo-Saxons invaded since they had established a foot-hold as protectors/mercenaries for the Celts, who protected them from the northern tribes up in Scotland.
* Why is Britannia called Britannia? The PointOfDivergence was supposedly the Celts repelling the Roman invasion[[hottip:* :Yes, I know the original POD was the appearance of sakuradite, but you know what I mean]], yet ''Britannia'' is the name the Romans gave to the province consisting of the island of Britain. Shouldn't it be called, um, something else?
** [[AssPull Bismarck's Geass can see into alternate realities]] [[EpilepticTrees and he saw the name Britannia and told Chuck about it. He decided it was awesome, and so renamed the Empire. This is why everyone's shouting "All Hail Britannia" so much, to drum the new name into their heads.]] [[HandWave Bismarck's Geass seeing alternate realities combined with Chuck's love for random historical revisionism is also the explanation for all other alternate-history-related wonks]]. (This was all going to be explained in the original plan for the series, but then Bismarck's role was shortened to "I know what's going on and am trying to convince whoever's in charge not to be dumb, blurrgh I am daed")
*** Heh. In all seriousness though, I'd speculate that even if the Romans were defeated, the name might have remained and was popularized somehow at a later date...or just because.
** It's called Britannia for RuleOfCool. MST3KMantra, my friend; They only wanted to use a name that would differentiate Britain from Britannia. Also, it wouldn't be the first time a country adopted the foreign name for their country as a translation to their country's name in their own language. Japan is called Nippon/[[SpellMyNameWithAnS Nihon]], but will refer to themselves as Japan when speaking in English. The Celts probably just took on the name to refer to their new Empire as a whole, rather than give it a name they couldn't agree on.
** This is actually incredibly easy to explain. There are plenty of historical examples of groups taking the name there enemies have given to them and using it for themselves. For the best real world example, English soldiers called American revolutionaries "yankees" as an insult. American troops liked the name so much they adopted it. So Romans go to attack the barbaric Britannians and lose. Britannian becomes synonymous with barbarism and the Britannians adopt the name as an insult (i.e. "Nyah nyah, we're just a bunch of barbarians and we kicked your ass".)
* The fact that Napoleon was more successful in this timeline bugs me. From what I've read, the American Revolution failed because Benjamin Franklin betrayed the rebels, which certainly makes sense. However, the French Revolution apparently still occurred; furthermore, Napoleon managed to conquer Britain and even more of Europe. In the real world, France aided the rebels in the American Revolution in order to weaken Britain. However, the country was nearly bankrupted as a result of paying for soldiers, ships, supplies, etc., which led to the peasants starving, which was the main factor that led to the Revolution in the first place. If the American Revolution never happened, France stays wealthy and the peasants have no pressing need to rebel; hence, no French Revolution, and no opportunity for Napoleon to seize power.
** As I understand it, the revolution still ''happened''; it just didn't succeed. So France pumped massive amounts of money into an ultimately futile cause, sounds like grounds for rebellion to me. (Alternatively: Napoleon had Geass too, and used ''that'' to seize power).
*** ThisTroper has just been following the logical theory when it came to historical events in CodeGeass: "He (or she) who has Geass will most likely end up a successful Leader and Conqueror." Napoleon, the Celtic Super-King, William the Conqueror, The Emperor of Britannia (the first Empire, not the reorganized Holy one) who put down Washington's Rebellion, etc. all had a Geass. the Roman leadership at the time and the last Emperor to rule from the British Isles didn't. Or they were out-Xanatosed. The latter makes for Great fanfic ideas: Code Geass: Celtic Super-King of the successful resistance, or Code Geass: Napoleon of the Revolution.
*** "Celtic Super-King of the successful resistance" ''Hell yes''.
*** Given that Caesar's "invasion of Britain" was essentially marching around Kent for a few weeks kicking some ass and going back to Gaul, Caesar losing (as in, "Not dying or having his army destroyed, but running back to Gaul with their tail between their legs) wouldn't be such a huge divergence. Given that Caesar's excuse for invading Britain (aside from RuleofCool) was Briton interference in Gaul, some sort of Britannic Vercingetorix uniting the Briton tribes isn't really all that implausible. (Speaking of which, you want a real divergence point? Vercingetorix beats Caesar at Alesia and rules a unified Gaul hostile to Rome. Pompey is out dealing with pirates. Vercingetorix marches on Italy. HilarityEnsues.) The key point to the divergent plotline here is Celtic super-king and his successors holding off the invasion of Britain by Claudius 100 years later, especially given that in this timeline, Claudius would've had serious interest in avenging Caesar's humiliation. Hell, Augustus might've even authorized an invasion of Britain ahead of schedule out of pride, especially if the whole Teutoberg Forest thing didn't happen. Even if Britannia was strong enough to maintain its independence from Rome, there'd still be quite a bit of cultural contact between Gaul and Britain. No Roman occupation, and even a unified Celtic Britannia, is no guarantee that Christianity and other importations from the later Roman Empire wouldn't happen. I just had an idea. c. 500, a massive Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britannia is thwarted by the Britannian Emperor, a warrior king named Arthur.
** Really quick note to the person above, historical King Arthur was Roman so it wouldn't work out that well. Also the reason why Christianity spread so fast was due to the Roman roads and the security brought about by Roman rule. The roads made it easer to travel and the Pax Romana made people more likely to travel without fear. If there was a super king on an island who had fought off Caesar, this could negate the Pax but more likely it would seal off the island from Roman influence and as such no one would want to travel there to share christianity with the barbaric Britannians.
*** It would have spread eventually, just not right away. And Britannia would still be open to trade, since you can't just close yourself off without going through economic stagnation. Roman-era Europe was actually very closely tied together, even the areas not folded into the empire, believe it or not. Britannia would have likely tried to learn all it could from Rome in order to help its own fortunes on the world stage, in the same way that Japan adopted Knightmare Frames for its own use. As for Arthur, [[SarcasmMode there's no way at all that someone from The Empire would ally himself with a smaller power for whatever agenda he had set for himself]]. [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial No way]]. [[SignatureStyle Not in Code Geass]].
*** While his origin is still being debated (and whether or not 'Arthur' was actually several people) Arthur definitely would not have been a Roman. If a single Arthur existed he would have been a Briton (aka Celts).
* Not sure if this is the right section or not, but this troper was thinking over where the characters of Code Geass would be if history had remained unchanged and realized he had ''no idea'' what Lelouch's nationality would be. British? American? Japanese? Any thoughts?
** He was born in what's really the USA. But the correct answer is that in a more real world he would never been born at all.
** He would never have been born. But if we consider AlienSpaceBats, then he'd likely be a member of ''some'' branch of the British Royal Family who has English (father's side) and American (mother's side) ancestry... who lives in Japan.
* Also, how can Pizza Hut exist in an alternate reality? I guess ProductPlacement trancends realities.
** In regards to your Pizza Hut question, and all the above AlternateHistory questions... did anyone else get the feeling that it was all completely made-up? To put it succinctly, the reason why there's so many holes that we keep pointing out is precisely ''because'' these holes exist in-universe. With the power of Geass at the command of many [[MagnificentBastard clever leaders]] throughout history, C.C. may be the only one alive who knows the ''whole'' truth. What seems like DidNotDoTheResearch becomes quite confusing when you realize that Geass consists of an entire [[TheMasquerade Masquerade]] that spans the entire world and history of ''CodeGeass''. It wouldn't be the first time that the creators of the show outright lied to us. It's not like they can spoil the series for us, so instead they offer [[RedHerring false leads]]. The FridgeBrilliance page says it best:
--> At first, the idea of having Pizza Hut in the series seemed like stupid Product Placement, but it now hits me that unless some really bad InSpiteOfANail is going on, this is yet another sign that the "official history" in the series in complete b.s. —- Jordan


* Let me tell you what actually happened. After Suzaku killed Lelouch, fighting broke out between the civilians and the imperial guards. The number of casualties is uncertain, but reports range from 60 to 60000, depending on the source. Suzaku and Nunnally were among the first to die. Afterwards, the issue of succession was raised. Lelouch left nothing resembling an heir, and no will. Candidates to the throne fought among themselves in the capital. Meanwile, the empire, held together by nothing but fear of death, fell apart like a wet newspaper. Hundreds of princedoms sprung up, among them 28 Holy Britannian Empires. Two dozen major wars were fought, plus hundreds of minor conflicts, terrorist acts, and innumerable miscellaneous crimes, as the map of the world was redrawn by everyone with a gun and an ambition. It took humanity two hundred and fifty years to return to the lousy stability that existed before Zero first put on his mask. Thanks for nothing.
** Added later: the idea that you can fix all the world's problems by making everyone hate you broke my suspension of disbelief like nothing else ever did. What, do humans have a limited supply of hate, so if they use it up on Lelouch, they'll have nothing left? Is that the idea? There's unrealistic, and then there's stupid.
*** Hold on, why would there be a fight between the royal guards and the people? Why would the people even be fighting? They'd be cheering from sheer joy. The royal guards wouldn't be able to fight because they were all geassed so when Lelouch died they would have no idea what they were doing there, where they were, or why they were there. All it would take is Jeremiah saying, "We're throwing a parade for Empress Nunnally" and everything would be fine and dandy.
** Yeah, no. And that isn't even a JustBugsMe anyways.
*** The idea isn't that they "ran out" of hate. It's that after a huge and massively bloody war and a tyrannical ruler being killed. The people would have for more need to concentrate on rebuilding and reconstruction and would not be in too big of a hurry to start another war. Here's some IRL examples: after WWI everyone was so opposed to the idea of another war that they appeased a clear maniac for 3 years before actually starting a fight, after WWII there was not a single European war for another 40 or so years. So taken to an extreme, the world could achieve peace for maybe a century before going back to normal. That would be just long enough to allow Nunnally to live a peaceful and happy life. More to the point, the ending was symbolic. The ending was meant to signify that peace is attainable but it is quite costly and sacrifices would need to be made. Oh and to the first poster, overreaction much?
** This requires both discarding what actually happened and assuming things about the Code Geass world that aren't exactly known for certain nor much less set in stone either, but at the very least it was fun to read an extrapolation for a pseudo-realistic, utterly pessimistic scenario.
** Dude, if that's your response to the ending, you seriously need to mellow out.
** I don't believe the "carnage breaks out as soon as Lelouch dies" scenario, but it seems overly optimistic to have world peace just by killing the most hated man on the planet. The world still needs to be rebuilt, and people are bound to have starkly different approaches on how to do it. If anything, Lelouch removed the one factor that united the world. By the way, is this even supposed to be in Alternate History? It seems more like a JBM about the way the show resolved itself, rather than the history.
** Isn't the entire point of Zero Requiem basically "Become utterly hated, have [[strike: Zerozaku]] Zerorugi kill object of said hatred, commission my much more marketable little sister as successor to the throne, thereby securing lasting world peace, and have Suzaku preserve it." I mean, it just seems obvious, since, after all, nature abhors a vacuum, and Lelouch of all people would take measures to not leave one behind after his death.
*** Peace will end... [[SequelHook and a sequel will begin.]] That might have been the plan all along.
* As mentioned in the Narm section: how did Nunnally in Nightmare of Nunnally get to the Shinjuku Ghettos? Alone. With no one (presumably) to bring her there. In the middle of a massacre. Did I mention that she's blind and crippled?
* Can someone explain the joke? People have said in the picture dramas Nunnally is a CovertPervert..Huh?
** In the picture drama referenced on the [[FetishFuel/CodeGeass Fetish Fuel]] page, the student council all cross-dress. The girls mostly go gaga over how pretty Lelouch looks in a dress and a long wig, and Nunnally says she's sad she can't see it. That's it, basically. YourMileageMayVary on whether that remark was perfectly innocent or she really is a CovertPervert. There is actually another picture drama where she makes remarks that could be taken that way, namely episode 8.75 (the [[BeachEpisode Pool Episode]]); she asks Lelouch to "[[IfYouKnowWhatIMean train her in various ways]]" so she can be more like Cornelia, in reference to Milly saying Cornelia probably "trains in various ways with her male subjects".
** A lot of it seems to be misinterpretation by the perverted Milly. It seems to be a running (mostly innocent) joke amongst their friends that Lelouch and Nunnally are "Married-Couple-Close". Remember, in one sound episode, Shirley is terrified that Lelouch will not love her, instead marrying Nunnally, Suzaku, or, at one point, ''everybody''.
* Nina's design. First of all, did her hair color change part way through the first season? Her hair looked originally black, but later it gained a green hue even in the dark. Also, is it me or does her design look different from other characters? It's not her glasses either.
** She's [[GenericCuteness relatively cute]] living in a world filled with TheBeautifulPeople. It was the ugliest they could make her without making her a {{Gonk}}.
** If this had happened, she would be DistaffCounterpart to [[GurrenLagann Attenborough]].
* Kallen's mom. [[spoiler:Wasn't she supposed to go to jail?]]
** She did, hence her complete absence until the finale. Getting a pardon is easy when you're good friends with the Empress.
* Why can't Nunnally get cybernetic legs? They fixed Orange-kun pretty good.
** No doubt Jeremiah's work was damned expensive (and was military funded). Nunnally couldn't afford it at first, and might even elect against it after she could. It was also probably quite experimental.
** It's brand new. Give them a few years and she'll probably elect to get it once it's available to the public.
* If Britannia is supposed to be an absolute monarchy, why does it have a prime minister? (Note: 'Because Britain has one' is not an answer, because Britain is ''not'' an absolute monarchy, nor was it at any point after the office of prime minister was established.)
** I always handwaved it as being for the sake of appearances - It makes the Britannian nobles/public think they have at least some say in governance. They don't, of course, but it at least ''looks'' that way.
** The fact that the prime minister in question is the Emperor's son makes the arrangement perfectly compatible with an absolute monarchy - there are some real life absolute monarchies where one of the king's brothers or sons is designated prime minister. At times I suspected that in Britannia's case the position was created specifically to give Second Prince Schneizel some position of power, since he is clearly more capable than First Prince Odysseus.
** There have been positions throughout history in various cultures that we've translated into English as either being "Prime Minister" or "Vizier", since they're the closest available words we've got. It basically means "the guy that the King/Emperor chose as his legislative second-in-command and advisor". Note that Britannia has a Senate (Parliament) and a House of Lords. Both can exist in an absolute monarchy, it's just that neither can have any real power beyond the constitution and rubber-stamp legislation.
* Britannia is not an absolute monarchy they are a constitutional monarchy with several branches of government including an elected parliament and a high court. Many high ranking officials that the emperor douse not have control over, these include the Chairman, Prime Minister, Speaker, President, and chief justice. They can be seen with the emperor at Clovis’s funeral. The emperor only has power over the military with every thing else he is a figure head, this was explicitly pointed out by him. Where everyone else was during Lelouch’s take over is unknown but my guess is under his geass control.
* The end of Season 1. [[spoiler:Euphinator related]]. ..Why did Lelouch [[spoiler:choose to say ''those'' words? Seriously? Was it supposed to be funny? Was that the only thing he could think of? Why choose ''that phrase''?]]
** IdiotBall. He was just trying to give the most horrific example he could think of.
* Rivalz. Am I the only one who thinks quite a few of the things he says, especially when concerning Japanese during the beginning of the series, sound accidentally racist?
** He is Britannian, and Britannians have an entire system of government that supports racism. Even if only mildly so, Rivalz does suffer from this upbringing.
*** No one else in, the anime versions, school seems to have a racist problem though... except Nina.
*** We never get the chance to see them comment on it seriously, or at least not much. Rivalz just happens to have the earliest chance to voice his impressions.
*** Well, there's those people who graffiti'd Suzaku's clothes for being an "Eleven", and who knows what else off-screen.
* So Kawaguchi apparently stated that he wants to announce a new animated production soon. Does this mean a third season of Code Geass? And since Lelouch was killed by the end of the second season will we get a new main character?
** No telling. The only info out is about a manga with a prequel plot, and that announcement was months ago.
*** Hasn't the manga been slated for an anime adaptation?
*** No. At least, there's no plans for such a thing. The latest news is some sort of OVA about a new group of characters in the show's timeline.
*** That's what I said. I heard that the new OVA (or is it a season?) revolves around the new manga, as in an adaptation of it.
*** Again, no. It's about a new group of characters in the ''show's'' timeline, not the manga.
** Apparently, there are three AlternateContinuity mangas: the ''Lelouch of the Rebellion'' manga, the ''Suzaku of the Counterattack'' manga, and the ''NightmareOfNunnally'' manga. Then, there's the ''Strange Tales of the Bakamatsu'' manga which may be canon but is likely just a UniversalAdaptorCast story, taking the ''CodeGeass'' characters and placing them in the Edo-era. The new canon manga is called ''Renya of the Dark'' (or ''Black''), and is explicitly stated to take place in the canon anime timeline, in the equivalent to the ''CodeGeass'' Edo-era. Then there's a new anime series to be released (it's currently in the works). It's called ''Akito Of The Ruined Land'' (best current translantion), and it will take place in 2017 a.t.b., or, concurrently with Season 1. So no, neither are sequels, one's a prequel and the other is an interquel.
* [[AsLongAsItSoundsForeign The names]]. Did they pick them from a French furnishing catalog or something or is it some odd case of ThemeNaming? A lot of their names directly translate to or are similar to certain words which are furniture based. "Red Lamp" for Lelouch and Nunnally's fake last names, "Window" for Shirley, "''World of Wool Brushes" for Rivalz, etc.
* [[WeAllLiveInAmerica The culture]]. Isn't almost anything Japanese supposed to be repressed and underground? Then why does everything seem rather Japanese? Especially the schools.
** CreatorProvincialism, probably....
* Nunnally... was supposed to have a crush on Suzaku? Huh?
** In case you haven't noticed, most of the people in ''CodeGeass'' are on par with the Olympian Gods in regards to beauty. And Nunnally is 14 years old, with Suzaku having been one of the only guys that Lelouch let near her for more than 5 seconds (aside from Rivalz, but he's... well, ''Rivalz''). Of course, part of it may have just been [[ShipperOnDeck Lelouch encouraging it out of his own desires]]...
* Why isn't this whole series out on DVD yet? Not just for a complete series for people who aren't stupid and won't buy the single volumes, but I don't think they have even released all the volumes yet. Why? At least let us get the first season in one dvd set. The show has been done for two years now. Theres a similar problem with Gurenn Lagann. I get that they make more money with the volume releases, but for the sake of shelf space they need to release these things as full sets.
** They do have sets though.
*** Not of the whole series. I mean, the whole series is availible on dvd now, but in 4-6 episode, individual discs. That means if I want the whole series I have to buy like 8 discs, instead of just one complete series box set or two seasonal box sets. That way saves space and money and they still don't have one yet.
* Suzaku is Japanese, right? ..He has green eyes and tan skin. Light colored eyes can happen in Asian people but it's very rare, and the tan skin could just be a tan he's had for years. But that seems unlikely.
** Kaguya also has green eyes (along with more traditional Japanese hair colouring), and she's his cousin, so maybe it's a family genetic quirk.
* Immortal Geass users and having body parts removed. How does that work? As in how would they regain their body parts. For example, CC has been [[spoiler:Guillotine'd]] in the past and also [[spoiler:crushed by water, after she met Lulu.]] VV [[spoiler:survived being blasted.]]
** On a similar note, how did CC "survive" [[spoiler:getting crushed by water?]] Wouldn't she just stay there?
*** Assuming she wasn't tangled up in the wreckage, her mangled corpse would float back up.
*** She either opened the hatch and let herself be crushed and floated to the surface then healed, or she was crushed inside the Gawain and stayed there until it was salvaged by the Black Knights (as parts of it ended up in Shinkiro and the Ikaruga) at which point she was freed and healed.
*** This troper just assumed she drowned and had to walk.
* Is it just me or is there some weird, pseudo-DieForTheShip stuff towards Suzaku from some of the Kallen fans in some forums and fanfics? All the stuff about how ''she'' should be the one Lelouch chose to be his Knight of Zero, how ''she'' should be the one he set up as a hero in the end and confided in, and Suzaku "took ''her'' place". It's almost as if someone's taken all the traditional shipper wank comments and replaced "girlfriend" with "knight".
* The beginning of ''Nightmare Of Nunnally''. How the heck did a crippled, blind, wheel chair bound girl get to an accident by herself? So far away from home too, and without being seen?
** Probably the same unlikely sequence of events that led to Lelouch getting thrown into a truck, taken to the ghetto, and dropped off right near his mother's old contractor...
*** How'd she get out of her room?
* Lost Colors and the kimonos. ''How''? '''''Why'''''? I thought Britannia suppressed almost everything remotely Japanese..Plus how did they get Nina into one?
** CreatorProvincialism... besides, hypocrisy and a pretentious attitude are kind of the the Britannian stereotypical trait in that universe.
*** But how did they get Nina into it?
* Say, do you think that anyone in-universe noticed that Emperor Lelouch was piloting the Shinkiro Knightmare Frame. You know, the Japanese Frame that was supposed to be ''Zero's personal Knightmare''. You'd think people would have noticed that...
** As I recall, Zero's piloting of that Knightmare wouldn't be common knowledge. The cameras were off by the time the China battle picked up and he used it the first time. Cameras were again taken out the second time. The military should recognize the use of Zero's personal Knightmare, but they covered that on the spot by radioing that it was stolen. It's weird, but nothing that couldn't be explained.
*** Fair enough, the whole "Rolo stealing it to rescue Lelouch" would explain it, in universe... Still, I could see a few eyebrows raised by those not-in-the-know, unless [[WildMassGuessing they thought that Lelouch stole Zero's knightmare to use against them]]...
*** The core members of the Black Knights, who knew that Lelouch was Zero, would obviously not be surprised to see him turn up with the machine he escaped in. As for the official cover story, they could just have claimed that Rolo commandeered it, as a Britannian inflitrator working for Lelouch.
* Milly loves Lelouch? I..Never noticed it. Am I missing something? She just seemed like a CoolBigSis.
** Part of their BackStory. She was an UnluckyChildhoodFriend from Lelouch's earlier days living with the Ashfords.
** In the Cupid Day episode she ordered the clubs to try to get her Lelouch's hat and admitted to Sayoko that she wished she had gotten it. Combined with one of the picture dramas and it's definitely implied that she has feelings for Lelouch even if she's mostly given up.
*** She still seems like a big sister though.
* Why do people say Rolo is in love with Lulu? It seems like a twisted brotherly love to me.
** Well, at least Kimura Takahiro and Rolo's voice actor seem to take for granted that his feelings were romantic. If "gaze upon me only", “Brother is only mine…", "no one can save my soul, only you", "you give me the reason to live", "he won’t smile at me - For something so simple, why does my heart hurt so much?", "wouldn’t it be enough that the two of us could stay together forever, somewhere in a quiet place? That way we should spend all eternity in happiness", among many other of his lines don’t sound as being in love to you… Not to mention the amount of times official sources depict Rolo blushing or with floating hearts around when he's together with/thinking of Lelouch, and the way he not only wants to occupy Nunnally's place inside his heart but also gets jealous when Shirley becomes his "girlfriend", after CC claims that Lelouch and her are getting married, during the whole kissing scene from Rururu Goukon Rhapsody...
* Am I the only one who saw Nina not as a [[TheWoobie woobie]], but as a point of complete disgust? She was willing to see 11's die, worshipped the horrible nation of Britannia, was incredibly racist, and she was so pathetic as a person that the death of someone she didn't even know that well sent her over the edge. Every time she showed up, I cringed. To me, she's the type of person that comes to mind when aliens call humans 'cockroaches.' Was she MEANT to be this way, or is it just a case of me having an odd viewpoint? I just didn't see any redeeming features in her. At all.
** Seems to me the interpretation can go either way. She's painted early on as being mentally unstable and with an unhealthy fixation on Euphemia. But at the same time (which they could have done a better job establishing), she obviously had some sort of terrible experience with 11's that tainted her view of them forever. She's a crazy bitch, but this is part of what makes her woobie material. She's blind to the conseqences of her actions until she actually has to face them.
* As Emperor what exactly did Lelouch do that would cause the Black Knights to think a KillSat that was going to nuke every major city from orbit was a better option? I could see them being upset and betrayed by him claiming the Britannian Throne but at least he didn't build a weapon of mass destruction whose only plausible purpose would be to force the world into fearful obedience.
** They're idiots. They never realized the purpose of it.
** Which is the problem with the Zero Requiem. Not only that, he would also have to be worse than Charles. It would have been more productive, and less bloody, to get people to center their scorn towards Charles and Schneizel. Which only leads all the more credence, along with [[DespairEventHorizon his loss of resolve following Nunnally's apparent demise and the betrayal incident]], that he was looking to kill himself. Not to mention that it was also a luck based mission, in that it involved Kallen going against him.
* How did Geassing the collective subconsious of humanity not remove Lelouch's ability to use his Geass anymore? It's supposed to only work on a single person once but wouldn't the collective subconsious count as everyone?
** Everyone who's dead. The living are apart from it, if not quite separate. Besides, he didn't really Geass it, so much as ask nicely.
* Who created the knights of rounds knightmare frames and when were they made? Most of them seem at least as advanced as the original Lancelot, which was nonetheless described as the first 7th generation knightmare, even though it apparently has little improvement over knight of rounds models. Even more, Mordred uses a weapon that was perfected less than a year ago, yet Anya should have been a knight of rounds longer than that. The flight pack is also mentioned as new and unique, yet at least two of the rounds models have it built in.
** An in-universe justification might be that the elite knights are getting advanced models but the real answer is probably that they were given [[NewPowersAsThePlotDemands new knightmares to be a better threat to the Black Knights]].
** The Rounds have had a year to get these new models, the tech for which is already developed if not quite out of the experimental phase at the time. We don't see them with it prior, so it stands to reason they didn't have them.
* How are the royals competing with one another? If they were as ruthless as Lelouch stated, there is no way Euphemia, Clovis and Oddyseus would be that high up in the chain of succesors.
** Their ranking seems to have something to do with birth and not necessarily personal ability. They also don't appear to be as outwardly violent as nobles might have been when Charles was young. At any rate Schneizel doesn't consider assassination until near the end. As for Euphemia, her sister is ''Cornelia''. Making her angry is a bad idea.
** Cornelia was Euphemia's full sister so she was probably scaring everyone else to keep her alive. Clovis was Scgneizel's full brother so he was probably maniplutaing things to keep him alive. Oddyseus was more or less useless but as long as he was the First Prince the other more capable nobles like Schneizel and Cornelia aren't as big targets so they keep him around as a distraction.

* Ok Britannia is a globe spanning empire with an extreme imperialistic streak and a proven superiority over all factions that dont happen to have a major character, that's well established. So... Why the hell dont they ever get round to taking back their own freaking homeland?!
** Based on the (incredibly) little information we have on the European military they seem to be autonomous enough that maybe the English navy is powerful enough to stop an invasion. Or maybe the writers didn't want to mention Europe any more than they absolutely had to.
*** Yeah... Except that they have successully invaded France, Spain and Russia.
* What bugs me is that there's apparently someone running around, changing every reference to Mao to make it sound like C.C. was actually his lover. The show itself establishes that this is not the case. 1) C.C. abandoned Mao when he was very young, which would mean any relationship would be pedophilia (ignoring the fact that she's several hundred years old, of course). 2) She outright says to Lelouch that Mao ''came to see her'' as a lover, not that they ''were'' lovers. Just because she said "I loved you once" before she shot him does not indicate romantic love; is the concept of motherly love lost on people? Especially considering the staff tried to insist that this is exactly how she feels towards Lelouch, when she's shown getting awfully close to him.
** It's partly due to translation differences. The dub has C.C. saying, "I became his lover, but only in his mind." Either a fansub or the official sub (can't remember which) has the line as simply "I became his lover."
* What the hell is JunFukuyama doing with his voice? It's not horrible, but it sounds phoney enough that someone would surely take notice, and it sounds like he could be injuring his vocal chords trying to sustain it.
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[[WMG:Code [[index]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassCodeAndGeassMechanics Code
and Geass mechanics]]
Mechanics]]
* Why exactly did Geassing [[spoiler:the Human Consciousness]] cause [[spoiler:Charles and Marianne]] to die?
** I always took that as they were sacrificed to make the world have a tomorrow.
** They had just tried to kill said thing. I imagine it was none to pleased about that when it was given the chance to express its opinion.
** Eyes are the windows to the soul. Technically speaking, the human consciousness was man's collective soul (hooray for cheap band references!). So when Lelouch geasses a person through their vision, he's actually geassing their soul. So by the transitive property, if there is a soul by itself it can be geassed without eye contact.
*** That doesn't really address the question, though. Lelouch just asked them to not let time stop, and through whatever reasoning the World of C decided Charles and Marianne had to go.
*** The question had already been answered, I just explained how it could be geassed before anyone tries to ask that question.
*** And you completely ignored Charles and Marianne.
*** From what I can tell, the two had thrown their will into the sword of Akashic. Once the sword was destroyed, so was Lelouch's parents.
** Maybe it was just the only way to could actually stop the process they started?
** Is this good enough for a physical explanation? Charles and marianne's counsciousness are wiped out and their physical body have a stroke or something(leaving them brain-dead), then Lelouch dumped them out of some window or into the sea off-screen.
* If a contact lens is enough to contain the Geass's power while it's stuck in Main/ModeLock, then would contact lenses also be sufficient protection against it for a target? If not, what makes Lelouch's special?
** It's not a normal contact lens. CC had it made specially. We don't know the details, and she pretty much says outright that eventually it won't be capable of stopping it.
*** Actually, yes. Lelouch says so in the fifth or so episode of the first season that his Geass seems to be based on light (which is why he could Geass himself with a mirror). He was confused when CC handed him the contact lens because he knew that a normal colored one would be enough to stop his Geass. What CC's special lens do? We do not yet know.
*** Unless this troper is mistaken, colored contact lenses only color the irises. Since the light enters through the pupil, you would have to get specially made lenses. On top of that, the only color that they would be (if any; they might be clear) would be Lelouch's eye color.
*** I assume at least one of its special functions is to hide the glowing red shooting bird light in his freaking eye! It's obviously visible as Lelouch sees other users' geass in their eyes. XD This question does make me wonder how he hides the OTHER eye when they both light up...?
*** A second contact lens.
*** Actually, Lelouch has already gained control of his Geass at that time.
*** He has fully awakened it, but it's still in ModeLock. He just uses two lenses now - see his gesture before using it, that's when he removes them.
*** I always understood that the other characters can't SEE the way the eye changes when somebody uses Geass. Nobody ever says, "What the heck is wrong with your eye?!" or anything to that effect. I assumed it was just an effect the animators chose to show so we knew when a character was using Geass.
*** No, the characters notice Geass eyes. See Lelouch's reaction to Mao when Mao removes his visor for a second.
* What would have happened if Lelouch had ordered Mao to "pay no attention to the voices you hear from your Geass"?
** Best guess? He'd still be aware of the voices but they would be like white noise in the back of his head. Kind of like when you are reading something while the television is on. You can still hear it, and at times it is distracting depending on how loud it is, but for the most part you don't really notice it because your attention is focused elsewhere.
*** Mao's visor [[strike:probably]] does negate Lelouch's Geass as shown in episode 14. Lelouch tries to Geass Mao the moment Mao shows him the Geass eyes but Mao lifts the visor again before the command can be given.
*** Really, what I'm trying to get at is: would it essentially have solved Mao's problem and rendered Lelouch's worst enemy harmless (aside from the residual crazy)? We've seen in ''R2'' that the effect of one Geass can "seal" another if used in the correct way.
*** Geass has a limited duration. It would only delay the confrontation, and when Mao returned, even more crazy than ever, the Geass wouldn't work again. As it was he kinda blew it and used it on a trivial command, but silencing Mao at least meant he wouldn't be able to manipulate anyone, and he could be hunted down.
*** Geass has a limited duration? Since when? None of the commands Lelouch has given have ever worn off unless they were specifically limited. For example, his 'Live!' command to Suzaku is still working fine.
*** Since always. Remember way back in the early days of the series he uses the Geass on a student to tell her to make a mark on a wall every day so he can figure out how long it lasts. In episode 5 of R2 you see him walk past that wall, and the last mark is half complete. Which means it has run out. At most, a Geass lasts about a year.
*** The problem here is that student is no longer at the school. She might have been interrupted by the Black Rebellion in the application of the mark. By bullets. Or she just might have left.
*** Actually, I'm almost positive that the anime hinted at that being the reason the marks even stopped, as the whole point of the student's existence is to show the viewer that Geass DOESN'T have a limited duration.
*** Also, Lelouch's order for Suzaku to continue living is still in effect, as seen in episode 7 of R2, and it has been more than a year since it has been issued.
*** According to an official newsletter, the girl returned to Britannia along with the rest of the school, but at a certain time each day attempts to return to Ashford to mark the wall. Her parents and doctors believe she is sleepwalking, presumably because the Geass comes into effect during the night in Britannia.
*** As well, and this troper may very well be mistaken, but I think that her pattern was to alternate one vertical and one horizontal line, that half-mark being between an odd (or maybe even) day since the start.
* Outside of the moral concerns, I have some problems with Lelouch being able to use his geass to make people slaves [[spoiler: and to a lesser extent what he did to Schneizel]]. Given that the power is one use only for him, to give a command like that is almost like the proverbial "wishing for unlimited wishes" concept- you would think it is not an option. I'd expect, that for the command to work, it would render whoever he does that to incapable of anyting, even using the bathroom or breathing without Lelouch's command. [[spoiler: Ordering Schneizel to obey Zero]] makes a bit more sense, since the phrasing implies that the command makes the person have enormous good will towards Lelouch and thus they can still think independently while being ultra-loyal. At best, maybe this is what is supposed to have happened with the command for people to be Lelouch's slaves.
** Actually, it looks like [[spoiler: ordering Schneizel to obey Zero]] was all part of the plan. That way, he ensures that [[spoiler: Schneizel will continue to serve the new order after his [[HeroicSacrifice Heroic Sacrifice]].]]
** In any case, despite it being an obvious thing to try, the first time we see LeLouch successfully Geassing people to "Become my slave!" is after his Geass reaches its full, binocular potential in R2 episode 21, at which point it may have transcended any or all of its former limitations.
*** Before that, in episode 20, he geassed Britannian soldiers to "do as I please", and that was with a one-eye Geass.
*** I always assumed Lelouch could always have done the "obey my orders" command but chose not to for ethical reasons.
** Well, the other way it backfires is what if he needs them in capacities other than mindless servants? This is probably why he didn't do that before episode 20; it would be a lot harder to keep the secret of Geass if a bunch of important people just started, say, always turning to Lelouch before answering a question.
* A stupid question but oh, well... If an individual possessing the Code has his or her name written in a Death Note, will they die? What happens to their Code, then?
** We all found out that Charles was still "killed" by God even though he stole V.V.'s code, so I wouldn't call it a TRUE immortality.
*** That's rather flawed logic. It is immortality in every conventional sense of the word. God, being omnipotent, can remove the Code because it is the one who, presumably, created the Code. Plus, Charles wasn't just killed, he was erased from existence.
** Unstoppable Force, Immovable Object and all that.
*** My guess is that they would have the heart attack, or whatever, then regenerate from the damage.
** Alternately, NightmareFuel, the code prevents their dying but the note commands them to die, as a result they spend the rest of eternity in a constant half living half dead state, dying over and over again without sufficient time to do anything to free themselves from said state.
*** That is interesting. They'd die every 40 seconds from [[HollywoodHeartAttack painful heart attacks]]...
*** Death Notes have a maximum age limit, so eventually the Code bearer wouldn't be affected anymore.
*** Regardless, the Death Note dismisses impossible commands, such as telling a prisoner in Japan to jump off the Eiffel Tower in the next 40 seconds. The prisoner is physically unable to die that way by any stretch of the imagination. While the prisoner defaults to a heart attack, since a heart attack won't kill a Code user, the default will be treated as impossible. The Death Note will only work if it details a plausible situation in which they would lose the Code.
*** If Light ever heard about a "code" and "immortality," he'd probably figure out a way to make himself immortal.
*** So basically put all he would have to do would be to write "X dies after giving me the immortality code"?
** The person who has the code would die. Rember, Shinigami are gods, and gods have been shown to be able to kill people with codes.
*** The person would die only if their name was written by a Shinigami then. If a regular person wrote down the name it wouldn't pan out quite as well.
*** Shinigami couldnt kill a Code user, it will "make them stop living" but then they would come back to life, the only reason Charles and Marianne died is because they were written out of existence.
*** Which brings up the question of how many years a Shinigami would get for death noting a code user.
*** However many years that person had before trasnferring their code and dying. That or they'd get the Abbadon treatment ''a la'' {{Torchwood}} and die of and overdose.
* Didn't Lelouch ever think of trying to get around the 'one Geass per person' restriction by giving a command like "obey all future orders given to you by Lelouch Lamperouge or Zero"?
** [[spoiler:Yes. The reason he didn't do at first is most likely that he thought that would have been just a bit too evil.]]
*** Seems very unlikely for Lelouch. It is more plausible that he [[spoiler: was not able to do this until his Geass fully activated]]
*** It only seems unlikely later in the series. Early on, Lelouch is a hero and he only uses the Geass on evil people and if the order won't harm the person (make a mark on this wall everyday). Later he starts to become more evil and dishes out plenty of "Become My Slave!" Geasses.
*** Keep in mind that Lelouch has respect for free will. He explicitly makes a point of not geassing people into becoming his allies, but rather trying to convince them by conventional means. So he uses Geass either to get a one-time favor or get rid of someone. As for full potential, see above about R2 episode 20, which was before that.
** Using his geass in this way would draw attention. Imagine what would happen if he had to interact with the person incognito (through chance of course). If he asked them to get him a coffee it would go off and they would zombie-fetch it for him.
* How much intelligence does Schneizel retain? Is he still a full-fledged ChessMaster who just think his priority is to serve anyone he recognizes as Zero, or just a mindless puppet waiting to obey whatever commands he is give? If he is still intelligent, then wouldn't he at some point question why he is so loyal? Would he still have his memories and be able to put two and two together? "Hmm...I know Zero has this geass thing that can brainwash people. I once was against him. Now I feel compelled to obey Zero. Hmmmm..."
** Think about Suzaku. He also had a permanent Geass on him, but retained his free will in every situation he was ''not'' facing death. I assume it works the same with Schneizel. He is still as intelligent as before, but it's impossible for him to even ''think'' about going against Zero.
** Even if he were to figure out that he's under Geass, what difference would it make? Knowing that he's under Geass would not cancel the Geass, so he'd still be compelled to obey Zero.
*** How would he even find out he's been Geassed? Lelouch can't tell him due to lacking a body, same goes for Diethard, Suzaku won't tell him because if he does he risks getting Schneizel as an enemy and he can't fight Schneizel now the Lelouch is gone. The only person left to tell him is Kanon and we don't know what happened to him.
** Would it be possible for him to defeat the command with rational arguments? "I knew Lelouch was Zero. Now Lelouch is dead, killed by ''this'' Zero. Ergo, he's not the real Zero and I don't have to obey him." Or more simply yet, he can put on a Zero costume himself...
*** But it's obviously Lelouch's intention for him to serve Zero. If he rationalized Lelouch as being the only Zero, he'd still have to serve Lelouch, no? And "serving" Lelouch would mean doing what he wants, which would, rationally, be serving the ''new'' Zero.
*** I'd assume that the Geass would prevent him from even thinking about thinking along those lines.
*** Why should it? If a random person, without a costume and without any indication of being Zero at all came up to him and said "I am Zero, obey me" would he have to obey them? If so, that's a pretty major flaw that wasn't really stated in the Geass command (so no LiteralGenie nonsense) and if not, then the Geass allows him the freedom to question claims to Zerohood, so why would he not be permitted to question a costumed Zero?
** For that matter, whom does Schneizel recognize as Zero? First it was Lelouch even though he wasn't wearing the costume (because Schneizel knew he was Zero), now it's Suzaku. (Does Schneizel know his identity?) Is he compelled to obey anyone who dons a Zero costume?
*** It's probably not that simple. Zero isn't just the costume. He's also a resistance leader, an ideal, so on.
*** The simplest explanation is that some point between then and Lelouch's death, Lelouch told Schneizel that Suzaku would be Zero upon his death, and as such should be treated as Zero in his absence.
*** Lelouch had already set up a work-around when he had Zero exiled from Japan/Area 11. He declared that Zero was an idea, not a person and therefore who ever represents the idea of Zero, a masked man who fights for justice, is infact Zero.
** There was an episode where millions of people dressed up as Zero and were recognized by the government as such. This was because Zero had become more than a person, he was a symbol of the Japanese people's collective strive for justice. It could be that Schneizel will feel obligated to obey that vague idea of justice.
* It has been clearly stated that Rolo's Geass has nothing to do with time manipulation, but just with stopping the victims perception of time. Then how is it possible that sometimes people are frozen while moving, or even just leaning to one side? Their own momentum should make them fall over.
** Maybe they tense up and stay in one position, like they're all playing Statue? They never shown us what happens to people who are straight out ''running'' in the series.
** Presumably they are mind controlled into standing still since all Geass seem to be based on some form of mind control, so they try to stay in one position as much as they are able.
** May I remind you of Rolo's HeroicSacrifice where he used his Geass until he dies? Well, there were helicopters...the pilots were frozen...and the helicopters fell into the Ocean.
** They are not at all consistent with how Rolo's Geass works. Rolo should have clearly died in episode 2 of R2. [[spoiler:When Urabe stabs Rolo's mech and explodes, Rolo survives thanks to his Geass by "warping" out of the way. However, as his Geass doesn't actually stop time, he shouldn't have been able to get away from that explosion. While everyone else's perception may have been stopped, the explosion wouldn't have been.]] However, at other times, his Geass has worked exactly like it's supposed to. For instance, [[spoiler:when he Geassed Suzaku in episode 6 of R2 so that Lelouch could speak with Nunnally and when he helped Lelouch escape in episode 19.]] Sometimes Rolo's Geass works as advertised and sometimes it's more like he's warping around. If anything, I'd say that what is generally the case is that Rolo's Geass works as advertised when we see it from his point of view but it's frequently done improperly (i.e. it looks like he's warping and nothing else moves) when shown from anyone else's point of view. Of course, even that's not always the case (e.g. when [[spoiler:he Geasses girls at the school in episode 12 of R2, they stopped moving completely instead of falling due to their momentum]]). The definitely explained how Rolo's Geass works, so that's quite clear, but they don't always follow those rules when showing him use it.
*** Rolo's escape in episode 2 of R2 makes a bit more sense when you take a closer look at what was going on, [[spoiler: Urabe pinned Rolo in a non critical area and stuck himself in a way that, when he moves his sword downwards, his Knightmare will blow up. Rolo realised this and froze Urabe just as he was about to move his sword, then Rolo broke free, careful not to move Urabe sword downwards. Urabe then unfroze and, unaware that Rolo had freed himself, struck the critical part of his Knightmare blowing himself up.]]
** On the subject of Rolo's Geass, how exactly was Lelouch able to deduce it anyway? I mean, yeah, the whole "I was counting time in my head and now I'm off" thing, but if I'm not mistaken he didn't even suspect Rolo of having a Geass power, let alone have any idea what that power might be. He was shocked when Rolo first used it on him in Turn 3 -- and not just as an act to throw Rolo off balance. The verbal reaction we hear is in his head, as evidenced by the pronoun used ("''He'' stopped time," not "''You'' stopped time.") So why was he counting time in the first place? Talk about CrazyPrepared...
*** Actually, he just noticed the time display in the corner of his eye jump forwards ~thirty seconds instantly.
* So, Lelouch is under a Geass-- something to the effect of "forget about telling Suzaku which wire to cut". Everyone else we see acting under the Geass's effects has a weird rim around their irises-- and if the effect is permanent (like the Geass Lelouch placed on himself), the rim around their irises is apparently also permanent. So why don't Lelouch's eyes show this?
** We don't see Lelouch acting under the effects of the Geass instruction he gave himself. By the time he's left the room with Suzaku he's already carried out the instruction, and then forgotten about doing it. Everyone under a Geass command forgets what they do under it completely, so he doesn't have to include that in the instruction, he can use a highly specific one time instruction which won't trigger again.
*** For him to even come up with the idea would give it away to Mao even if he didn't remember doing it-- so the memory loss can't (all) be because he was already Geassed; that would leave an odd dead-end "aha! I'll erase my own memory!" for Mao to see (and, unless he's even stupider that he seems, deduce the meaning of). So the order itself is to forget-- or to believe something (but it can't have been to believe something false or he wouldn't have realized at the end because he'd've been Geassed to still believe it even if he saw undeniable proof, right?)-- so any time he so much as thinks about that, he should have the rims around his irises. Right? (Then again, I don't recall Shirley's eyes doing that either, which makes even less sense than this.)
*** The outline may be simply a visual cue for the viewers and not a visible effect, since the characters never comment on the Main/MindControlEyes and don't even seem to notice them. In that case, Lelouch not having them is a matter of convenience; he's still under the effect of the Geass (at least until he gets Jeremiah, at which point he could have removed the effect offscreen). And the self-Geassing could have been phrased like, for example, "forget I gave the order, and forget I ever thought of coming up with the idea for this Geass, until Mao is defeated". Although Lelouch never engages in such lengthy, anti-Main/LiteralGenie wording, at least onscreen.
*** On an unrelated note: it's consistent throughout the series that people Geassed to forget something don't get the eye glow, even though it counts as a permanent Geass effect and can be removed by Jeremiah's Geass canceller (resulting in them getting the memories back). Case in point: Shirley.
*** Exactly. The red rim around the eyes only appears when the Geass is directly affecting the person. For instance, the "Live" Geass command that [[spoiler:Suzaku]] is under only appears when his life is in danger and the Geass is necessary to keep him alive. When affected by a command to forget, they forget more or less instantly, so the command is no longer necessary. They've already forgotten, so they're not really under the effect of the Geass anymore and the rims around the eyes don't appear. No one who is affected by [[spoiler:the Emperor]]'s Geass ever has red rims around their eyes. Their memories are altered immediately when they're Geassed, so there's no need for the Geass effect to continue, so there's no red rim around their eyes. The red rims appear only when being directly affected by a Geass.
*** The red rims issue has obviously been addressed: it doesn't apply to commands that deal strictly with memory. As for why Mao didn't figure out Lelouch's plot, this is most because one of the conditions of Mao's Geass is that he needs to focus to use it. Yes, he always picks up surface thoughts due to PowerIncontinence, but we know that even this is reduced if Mao focuses intently enough on one thing. In order to pick up on the gaps in Lelouch's memory, Mao would need to, first off, suspect such a ploy in the first place, and then to dig far below the surface of Lelouch's conscious thought. This would require taking attention away from Lelouch's current strategizing...which, given Lelouch's brilliance, is probably not a wise thing to do. It may have been a bit of a gamble on Lelouch's part, but the odds were definitely in his favor and it's not at all unreasonable that it paid off.
* What would have happened if Lelouch gave an order to...
** "Ignore this order"?
*** Why would ultimate ChessMaster Lelouch use his Geass on something that stupid? He's only interested in testing the limits and restrictions of the Geass and using the Geass on a wasteful experiment like that would reveal neither of these things and he never wastes a Geass or uses it purely to satisfy curiosity.
*** They would, as always, have a blank period of time. They wouldn't notice or care, even if it was pointed out to them. It would just be a couple of seconds and future Geass potential lost.
*** Wait... which order? Because that could make them ignore the order about ignoring the order, which would in turn keep them from ignoring it, making it just like a normal Geass. I think.
*** I'm not the original poster, but here's clarification: 'Ignore this order which I am giving you right now.' It's a logical paradox, like 'This statement is false.' If they ignore the order, then they're not ignoring the order. If they don't ignore the order, they're ignoring the order.
*** It's possible to escape this paradox if one ignores the order, and, in doing so, ignores the order or the conditions of the order. In other words, once someone ignores the order, they no longer have to wory about wether or not they are ignoreing the order. The real problem is when someone is ordered to disobey that order.
** "Allow me to use Geass on you unlimited times"?
*** Would depend on whether the person knew what a Geass was. In which case it would be like "follow all my orders" but the person would have to see the Geass effect (assuming it's not just visual shorthand) before following it.
*** But would this effect, or a "follow all my orders" Geass for that matter, incur the memory loss like from a normal Geass order? As for the "Geass effect", if you mean the purple bird eye thing, it's an actual visible effect because characters comment on it, but colored irises seen in people under the control of Geass are probably just an out-of-universe visual cue for the viewers.
*** Nothing I imagine. The geass only works once per person, and cannot make them do something physically impossible (see Shirley in R2)
*** Would have no effect on anyone. People have no control over whether they are geassed or not. The geass has its own rules. Similar to if he told them to no longer be affected by gravity.
** "Have a dream about X"?
*** Would probably have the dream.
** And speaking of which, related to the "knew what a Geass was" comment above: would the target follow an order phrased in a way they don't understand, for example, using unfamiliar words?
*** Considering that only understandable phrases have ever created the "Geass effect", an ununderstandable order probably wouldn't be "transmitted", as it were.
*** Also, consider that intent doesn't seem to have much to do with the effect, just the actual words spoken (as evidenced by the Euphinator Incident)
** Perform a bodily function that's biologically possible but can't be triggered at will, for example, "sweat" or "have an orgasm"? (No, I'm ''not'' thinking of Main/PowerPerversionPotential, I'm only interested in exploring the limitations of Lelouch's Geass).
*** I would think that if they can't trigger it at will, they would perform an action that would fulfill the command of the Geass. In the event of sweating, they'd just go someplace hot, and on having an orgasm, they'd... [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean * cough* ]]
*** Hmm, this make sense when I think of it. The easiest way to fulfill a "die" command would be to stop chemical activity that supports life. Since this can't be done at will, the victims have to resort to external means, that is, killing themselves.
*** On the other hand, if even a subconscious mental trigger can cause the effect, it would surely happen. I mean, you can't intentionally forget about something, because that would require you to think about it, resulting in a paradox, and yet a "forget" Geass still works just fine. Sweating can be caused by a subconscious trigger; I suppose the orgasm command would at least cause extreme sexual arousal.
*** Since Lelouch's Geass affects people who are used by it to forget that they've been Geassed, and actions they take the first time their Geass activates (I think that's how it works), it seems like manipulating memories is a specific exception to Lelouch's Geass' general rule, which seems to be that it must be something the subject is consciously capable of doing (otherwise, as has been pointed out, people would just drop dead when Lelouch tells them to die).
** Similar to the above, what about something that is physicly possible, but not bloody likely. Like "Grow a third arm", which is hypotheticly possible, but it would involve some weird genetic mutations or a birth defect.
*** Geass can't control the body, only the mind. "Grow a third arm" might compel them to seek out cybernetic surgery, a cardboard tube to tape to their side, or a [[AustinPowers Swedish penis enhancer]], or maybe it would just make them stare at Lelouch for a few seconds. But it can't randomly induce mutations or anything.
** You geass yourself to "Obey"?
*** Presumably it would cause you to blindly and automatically follow every order you gave to yourself in the future, even against yor own better judgement.
** "Make me a second Geass"? Or, to C.C, "Upgrade my Geass so it's unlimited"?
*** C.C. and other Code bearers are immune to Geass. Even if they weren't, it wouldn't work. As stated above, Geass powers follow their own rules; I think C.C. doesn't actually have control over what kind of Geass she grants, so she'd be unable to follow the order anyway.
*** Additionally we don't have anything to suggest that someone ''could'' have two Geass powers or that a Geass can be upgraded.
* If C.C. could really survive being chainsawed apart by Mao, [[Main/NightmareFuel which part would she regenerate from]]? The one that includes the head? What would happen to immortals if they were disintegrated/atomized? (The same could be asked about [[{{Torchwood}} Jack Harkness]], but let's leave him out of this for now.)
** She would probably regenerate from the head (well im just guessing because thats where her code is), and their is a good change that Jack probably dies after living a really long time (at one point he said that people used to call him the face of boa when he was younger and that he was continuing to age), not sure where he regenerates from though, either head or heart
** Well, she DID survive getting beheaded with a guillotine, so one could assume she starts from the head. Although it'd be entertaining to see that go down, starfish style.
** Probably it's more like a magnet or possibly even a liquidization thing. You know, like how [[{{Hellsing}} Alucard]] regenerates?
** Maybe her limbs would individually pull themselves back together, like [[StarWarsCloneWars Durge]].
** As for the disintegration thing, V.V. survived being stuck inside the exploding Siegfried and seemed to still be in once piece, though we can't know for sure if he actually ''was'' disintegrated or not, since it wasn't shown.
*** Code bearers are not immune to dismemberment. This troper can't recall where exactly, but he read once that after episode 25 of the first season, C.C.'s was eventually crushed by ocean pressure and she floated back up to the surface as a mess of body parts, where she eventually regenerated. The creators didn't show that because of how much NightmareFuel that would be.
* In Episode 19 of season one CC said that she knew Lelouch was alive, presumably because of her connection to him with Geass. If she could 'just tell' due to that connection, why on earth did she not tell Lelouch earlier that Mao was still alive after being shot full of bullets by police?
** Presumably, her contract with Mao was considered terminated, either before or after forging one with Lelouch. She probably left Mao and terminated their contract, severing their mind link, but couldn't remove his Geass. Either that, or she can't feel more than one Geass user empowered by her.
** It might also be that he never asked. He's a capable fellow and at that point she was more hanging out with him than working under him.
** It seemed like she was talking to whoever sent Lelouch, Kallen, Suzaku, and Euphie to the island, and she knew because they told her that all four arrived safely... (or at least that three of them did, because they tell C.C. about Kallen when she talks to them at the end of that scene.)
*** At that time she was talking to the emperor so the question is how did he know that
*** She was talking to V. V., not the Emperor.
**** Actually, I believe she was talking to Marianne, correct me if I'm wrong, though.
* If a Geass user wore an eyepatch over the Geass eye, would it block their Geass? Would closing the eye block the Geass? And if so, does it mean the voices in Mao's head stop every time he blinks?
** For Lelouch's Geass wearing an eyepatch or closing your eyes would work. His Geass is based on Light and eye contact so anything that blocks eye contact or diverts enough of the light away from the eye would stop it from working.
*** In Suzaku of the Counterattack, after Lelouch gets captured, he has a bandage placed over his Geass eye.
** Not all Geass work via direct eye contact. Rolo's doesn't, for instance. Those that do can be blocked by eyelids, barriers, that sort of thing.
*** Suzaku's hand, for one.
** It would probably work for Lelouch, Charles, and anyone else who had to have eye contact. Satan knows where the Knight of One fits in to all that.
*** His Geass apparently works only when it's open because he said "I've only used this on one other person" and then opened his eye. If it worked even when it was closed then he would've used it on a lot more than one person.
*** Actually, that's a bit of a tricky one. Evidently Bismark's eye has to be open in order for his geass to work, but since he personally didn't have line-of-sight to Suzaku at any point during the final battle, it's an open question as to ''why''. Then again, we've never seen Rolo use his with his eyes closed, and Jeremiah had to open his eye also (though his quasi-cybernetic geass may not obey the usual rules. Possibly all geases, regardless of their nature are ''deactivated'' when the wielder closes his or her eyes.
*** I just assumed that since his Geass made him see the future, closing his Geass eye would be the same as closing a normal one; you see your eyelid.
* How detailed can an order be? "Lelouch vi Britannia commands you to: rewrite copies of the provided letter by hand, sign it, mail them to all your friends, transfer all your XYZ Industries stocks to the Order of the Black Knights, donate all your personal possessions to charity, go to countryside in mainland Britannia, and live the rest of your life as a hermit."
** Probably even more detailed than that. I think the most detailed order we saw was in R2 episode 4, to the guy who he Geassed to fire at Rolo; the flashback we got had him saying stuff like "...and if he moves in [[AttackPatternAlpha pattern sigma]] do this. Afterwards, stand by," which implied that he'd come up with movement patterns with code names, gone over them with this guy, and made contingencies for each, and all that had been incorporated into the order he gave him.
* What would happen if someone, say, [[GurrenLagann Kamina]], was wearing reflective sunglasses, and Lelouch tried to use the eye on him? Assuming Leoluch hadn't Geass'd himself beforehand?
** HilarityEnsues. Even more so, depending on the angle of the glasses and their curve.
** Let's just say, reflective sunglasses play heavily into the "Lelouch vs. ArtemisFowl" crossover in this troper's head. Lucky Artemis is wearing his anti-mesmer gear.
* Do immortals like C.C. ''need'' to eat? Do they have the rest of normal human physiological needs?
** Most likely not. CC just seems to REALLY enjoy pizza, and bugging Lelouch for more.
** I don't think she could die of hunger, what's with the regenerative abilities and all (even if she did, she's come back to life), but I would assume her body still functions (for example she still breathes), so she could still feel hungry. So while she wouldn't need to eat (or breathe, if she'd be willing to keep suffocating and coming back to life every 10 minutes or so), she would probably want to do so anyway
* That geass Lelouch used on Suzaku - does it mean Suzaku is immortal, or just that he can't be killed?
** It means he'll do everything in his power to continue living. Which forces him to fight as hard as he can, to defend himself if someone attacks him (sucks for his death wish), or even [[spoiler:to choose the exact correct split-second to shoot at an oncoming nuke]]. But as [[spoiler:Shirley]] proved, being Geassed to live won't work if there's nothing you can do to stop yourself from dying.
*** Which kind of begs the question: Would Suzaku go after C.C. (assuming he knows about her code of immortality), when he grows old and in danger of dying? Shirley being unable to not die was because she had a very limited timeframe and NO knowledge of the possibility of immortality, Suzaku however will live for at least another 50-60 years. What happens then?
*** Even if Suzaku did know how, he does not possess the means, and wouldn't be able to evolve it quickly enough to manage by the time subverting death became an overwhelming and immediate concern.
** Not only didn't it make him immortal, it didn't make him literally unkillable either. Just extremely hard to kill as long as he's consciously aware of the danger and can somehow avert it even in very limited timeframe.
*** He lost to Kallen despite having the "Live!" Geass in effect, but that may have enabled him to find a way to survive the destruction of his Knightmare Frame.
*** He lost to Kallen because the Guren was just too damn powerful for the Lancelot to handle at the time. There was no way he could win that fight normally.
*** The Guren wasn't overwhelmingly stronger than the Lancelot, only better spec-wise, and clearly not by much. He lost to Kallen because she's a better pilot. Unless you mean the first time the SEITEN crushed him.
*** Against the SEITEN it forced him to not hold back his last option (Fliea). Once he fired that and she dodged it, he would have been helpless to resist her finishing him off Geass or not were she not distracted by the big explosions. It really only prevents him from holding back during fights.
* What would happen if Lelouch geassed [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Discworld Vimes]] to do something that goes totally against his principles?
** Probably the same thing tha happened to Euphemia. He resists for a bit then succumbs.
** Problem is Vimes' men are more GenreSavvy than that. By the time he started issuing genocide orders, Carrot, Aunga and Detrius would have him bound, gagged, and halfway to the Unseen University. Ponder Stibbons would take a great interest but have no insight whatsoever, Ridicully would do something funny, Colon would make a poor attempt as the bad cop in the "Good Cop Bad Cop" routine. Then Ventari would confront Lelouch (wearing a blindfold, obviously), while Lenoard of Quirm would send Nobby and Colon in his "[[TimeMachine Go Backwards In Time And Hopefully Not Kill Your Own Grandfather Device]]", where the two would specatualarly fail to change the past. Then some other stuff would happen and... um, never mind. Got off track there for a moment.
** Personally, I'd rather see Lelouch and ''Carrot'' meet up, mainly for the contrast in philosophies between the long-lost heir to the throne who believes "Personal isn't the same as important", and the long-lost prince whose personal priorities have [[SpannerInTheWorks repeatedly screwed over his own rebellion]].
** The Geass is based upon light, as shown by Lelouch being able to geass himself via mirror. Light moves slower on the discworld, so it's effect would be either mitigated or lesened. Also, the power of belief is VERY strong on the disc, and Vimes is believed to be un-mind-controllable and incorruptible. So, because of these and the arguments above, I don't think Lelouch could geass Vimes to go against his principle.
* With Orange's Geass Cancel thing, what happens to commands given by Lelouch? Obviously, someone would stop acting under the order. But what about orders that were complete? I have a problem with the fact that Shirley regains memories she was told to forget, because she already forgot. They should be gone. Does the cancel "heal" the memories?
** Lelouch's geass is shown to change the target's brain structure.. Orange's Geass Cancel essentially reverses any changes made to the target's brain by Geass, which would return all lost memories, and remove any existing mental compulsions put in place by the Geass, but not undo any actions already taken because of it.
** I view this as being similar to "deleting" a file in Windows. It's not gone, just the "address" to it is. The memories aren't gone, they just can't be accessed. Orange-kun's Geass removes the block on the memories, not recreates them.
* If Lelouch needs to look directly into someone's eyes in order to use the Geass, how on Earth could he ever use it on more than one person at the same time? You can't even look into the eyes of two people at the same time unless you're crosseyed or something.
** It's just eye contact which is needed, and only on the part of the victim. The victim only needs to be able to see the light of the sigil in his eye for the command to take affect, and in this respect it would be very easy to catch mass numbers of people with even one eye as long as you can hold their attention.
* Just... what determines which Geass power you get, exactly? It can't be that each person who bestows Geass gives a different power; CC gave Geass to at least 3 people (Lelouch, Mao, and Marianne, right?) and none of them have the same power. So..., how do people get so many different powers? Is it up to the bestower (i.e., CC, etc.) to decide, or is it always something that could benefit you given your situation (though it's not clear to me how much use the ability to read minds would be to a six-year-old orphan boy...), or is it completely random?
** It depends on your personality and your desires. Lelouch desires to command, CC desired love and affection, Rolo wished that time would not pass, and Charles wished to remake people's natures. I'm not sure exactly ''what'' Marianne could have wanted for her to have a "copy mind" Geass though.
** Marianne's Geass looks a lot more like a desire to escape her own body. Maybe she hated being a commoner, or something, and it makes sense that it would activate just as she was dying.
* What would happen if Mao was in a room with a bunch of people thinking in different languages? Could he understand all of them (does his Geass come with some sort of personal translator that would make them all into something he could understand)? Or would it be just like hearing someone speaking in a language you had never heard before?
** Well, you're thinking in English right now, arn't you?
*** What's that supposed to mean? I don't see how it answers my question....
*** Mao hears surface thoughts, so they would come across in the person's native tongue.
*** I am Italian, I live in Italy, and I've been thinking in English for five years now. If Mao happened to overhear my surface thoughts, they would come across in English.
*** Common tongue, then. Either way, English is the language you default to. Someone who had no understanding of English, or wasn't good at it, would think in some other language.
** Sometimes you think in no language, like when you know there's a word for something but can't remember the word. Also, the subconscious, which Mao can read if he concentrates, doesn't think in language, so I think he'd be able to understand thoughts of any nationality.
* If Jeremiah used his Geass Canceller on someone who Lelouch had previously Geass'd, would Lelouch be able to Geass them again?
** Apparently so - in the first season, Lelouch geasses Shirley to forget about him. And then in ''R2'', she gets hit by the Geass Canceller, all that shit goes down - and Lelouch tries to Geass her to stay alive after she gets shot. It doesn't ''work'', since he's apparently too late to fight biology, but she's showing the red rings that indicate she's under a Geass effect.
*** I might be totally imagining this, but I'm pretty sure Kallen's eyes also showed the red rim for a moment, the second time Lelouch Geassed her. The teacher, too. Both times, the red wore off because it was the second time, and the victim threw off the command. I always assumed it was the same with Shirley.
*** There's no red on either Kallen or the teacher. It flat doesn't do anything on the rebound.
* Would Geass work on a cybernetic eye?
** Not counting area of affect Geass, no, or at least it would be highly unlikely. Since Geass does not work through a camera, the light transmission that triggers it must have wavelengths that cameras won't capture. The same would apply to a cybernetic eye.

[[WMG:Other]]
* In the first episode terrorist attack and steel biological weapons (which turned out to be CC) and then go into a heavily populated area to use civilians as human shields from the pursuing military. At the time the Britannians had 2 choices either allow the terrorist to escape with WMD that would cause the death of thousands or attack the people they were using as shields killing them to get to the bad guys. It was pretty much a catch 22 for Clovis at that point and obviously thought that attacking the people the terrorist were trying to hide behind was the lesser of 2 evils. Yet people act like the empire goes around committing slaughter on a whim and for fun. At the same time they tend to give a free pass to the terrorist that stole the weapons and drew the army there, and act like an attack that they provoked was justification for their actions later in the series
** The so called biological gas canister belonged to Britannia. The resistance cell was getting them out of their hands, so they couldn't have it used it against them. Clovis ordered the purge because he feared that he would be disowned if he were to get caught, nothing more.
*** There actually is a bit more to that, Clovis was afraid that they would be able to hones the witch’s powers and use it against them, there was also the fact that losing here would hurt his plan to find out what happened to this DeadLittleSister and Brother that were killed by the Japanese setting of the war in the first place. Also keeping something that powerful from the government might be considered treason which is punishable by death. Plus he did care about the people living in area eleven even having a public memorial for solders in that episode; yes he was at a party but the fact he took the time to honor them shows he views them as more then cannon fodder like some of his siblings, Clovis is a lot more complicated then you give him credit for.
*** He wanted to honor Lelouch and Nunnally's memory. He had no idea they were still alive. While I do recognize how caring Clovis was towards his siblings, the moment at the party he was at clearly demonstrates he hardly cares a whit for the Elevens there.
* Kallen is a JerkSue KarmaHoudini with a humongous dose of MoralDissonance. She has a hand in all the major disaster and deaths in the series, in the first episode she lead the Britannian military into a crowded area to use the people as human shields after stealing chemical weapons yet nobody blames her for the inevitable conclusion. Later she sets off a device causing massive landslides and the biggest casualty count at that time including the father of one of her best friends and barley shows any emotion over it. Later she tries to kill a man she knows she can not be killed and he releases a nuclear bomb because of it (granted she did not know about it before attacking him), yet she seems only concerned about Lelouch after it happened. She also showed no qualms about murdering her friends in cold blood if they might have made her as a terrorist. She tries to stab both Lelouch and Shirley in the back and they were only saved by lucky interruptions (in one of the cases it was planed). She is also a BloodKnight that seems to only be in it for the killing sure, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really does not like them either because they are weak especially her mother(even though she does gain some sympathy for her). The worst thing to happen to her in the series was being captured and her friend considered using EnhancedInterrogationTechniques on her but decided against it because it was to much like something her side would do, yet she still viciously beats him for even considering it after he lets her out. She was also taunted by a JerkAss which people act like is the worst thing to happen to somebody. She never gets punished and she gets a happy ending. Amazing what you notice re-watching the series
** Kallen had no intention of using the civilians for human shields. Heck, she had no intention of getting caught in the first place, which was all Tamaki's fault for screwing up the plan. When Nagata, who was driving the truck, suggested using the canister, she forbade it. It was because Suzaku put a [[SpannerInTheWorks spanner in their resistance]] by undoing the progress they had made after Lelouch had helped them out in secret that the Britannian soldiers were able to corner them. She thinks of killing Lelouch and Shirley only with the intention of protecting her identity as a freedom fighter against Britannian tyranny, not because she's a BloodKnight. When she learns about the Narita landslide killing Shirley's father, she is absolutely devastated. In the DayInTheLimelight episode, she doesn't view the Japanese as weak, as you put it. She only sees her mother that way for willing to become a maid in the household, and for taking Refrain (of course, before learning her reasons). She gives Suzaku a smackdown because of the implications of threatening her with the drug that addicted her mother, and that it was only because he "didn't want to stoop down to Zero's level", not because he really cared about her. And she had no idea about Suzaku having the geass command; it was more a case of Suzaku being too reckless and suicidal to retreat when he was losing. (We don't really see anything else from her the following episode aside from her retrieving Lelouch.) And Kallen has nothing bad happen to her aside from being held captive by Suzaku? What about getting used by Ohgi to lure out Zero in order to betray him without a word in the matter, and as a result ultimately loses Lelouch, the man behind the mask, and responsible for a large part of the victories and resulting peace? Ohgi and the Black Knights themselves, who complicate things because of the betrayal, get off scot free. And don't get me started on some of the enemy Britannians who live on.
*** No terrorist ever has the intention of being caught however the police were already in pursuit by the time we see her there were plenty of chances for them to either ditch the cargo or get to a less populated area before they turned into the ghetto tunnels where Britannia trapped them. Also she did not want to use the gas because it would kill the two of them not because of the safety of the people around them. She was also willing to kill her friends because she thought they might have identified her as a terrorist (I know the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"). She only seemed a little disturbed after the land slide contrast that with Lelouch who was actually devastated. Her view on most of the japans was that they were weak subservient to the Britannians, maybe not as literal as her biological mother but it was the same principle. She thought this because they weren’t fighting like she was and the empire actually had a higher approval rating then the terrorist until the tower. Suzakue did not drug her because it would damage her, what zero douse damages people. They did not trick her into betraying him. They simply asked him to bring him there so they could confront him about the pile of evidence, plus they assumed that she had been keeping information from them which she was. Ohgi seemed to have better morals then her and even though he was used by a pair of evil princes in there insane revenge schemes like she was, he was always much more cuscus and did not have a hand in any mass murder.
*** The danger of letting what was purported to be a Britannian made and owned payload of toxic gas was far too great to risk at that point. Kallen was against the use of gas against civilians, specifically saying it would be a bloodbath. Again, she only saw killing anyone who found out her identity as a resistance fighter necessary to keep it a secret. And she only saw Honorary Britannians as weak and subservient, but that doesn't mean she didn't pity them. And Suzaku only didn't drug Kallen because he didn't want to "be like Zero". And while Lelouch as Zero may have done some objectionable things, he was also getting results towards getting people their freedom, contrary to Suzaku who at the time was aiding the Britannian status quo. Ohgi and the rest of the Black Knights were ready to shoot to kill Lelouch, to which effect they yelled at her to get out of the way or else she would be shot, as they suspected her of being under Lelouch's geass as well. Ohgi may have not had a hand in mass murder per se, but he was willing to follow all of Lelouch's plans, which makes him just as responsible. Beyond that as well, his plan to trade Lelouch for Japan would have left the rest of the UFN out to dry, which would have made him an even bigger traitor. On top of that, [[LoveMakesYouDumb he seems to be mostly concerned with Villetta, up until that point a Britannian spy who he's been keeping secret]], and still offers inaccurate testimony against Lelouch, which is followed to predictably disastrous results. And beyond that, Lelouch does not deserve to be lumped in with Schneizel like that. Lelouch uses extreme methods because he has little alternative; Schneizel does so because he can, hence his self proclamation to playing God near the end of the series with Damocles.
* The Black Knights after chapter 19 of R2 ''Hey, let's totally dismiss the guy who has helped us to become a real threat for the britannian empire, who has given us hope. Oh, and let's join the Britannian prince, our major enemy in the past, for no reason. '' To summarize:\\
--[[MsFanservice Kallen]]: Lelouch, I don't like this, but I'll have to kill you because... I dunno, guess I prefer blondes (Gino, Schneizel...) nevermind that I was your most loyal soldier and we had lots and lots of UnresolvedSexualTension. \\
--[[DistractedByTheSexy Ohgi]]: zOMG TITS!!1one Oh, yeah, I'll join you, Viletta.\\
--[[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder Diethard]]: Everything is more interesting with the rebels. Therefore I'll join with Schneizel.\\
--[[TrueNeutral Rakshata]]: Meh, I'm happy making mecha.\\
--[[ChewToy Tamaki]]: WOAH WTF IS THIS GUY GOOD OR BAD?! I JUST WANNA FIGHT DAMMIT!\\
--[[TallDarkAndHandsome XingKe]]: If I joined Lelouch, the Tian Zi could be safer. But I'm gonna be the hero and rescue her!
** This kinda fails on several levels. To start, the initial betrayal did not even include Rakshata or Xingke. Rakshata only found out later. And really, what's she gonna do about it? She's in no position to change their minds. Xingke looked pissed when he finally found out, and by then it was far too late to change the game. Tamaki is Tamaki, but even he was the voice of reason (shocking, I know) almost the entire time. Furthermore, Diethard was against it the entire time, but realized that he couldn't talk them down. Kallen also refused to betray Lelouch, up until he broke her heart, and even then he negated it at the last second. She doesn't actually start fighting against him until he becomes Emperor and really starts being evil. Until that point, she tried to get the Black Knights to see reason. When that obviously wouldn't work, she tried to hunt him down to ask him the question she asked in 22, not to kill him. It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
*** Actually, the second "evil thing" Lelouch did after becoming Emperor was capture the UFN representatives. The first being dismantling the nobility and Numbers systems, which resulted in civil uprisings that were put down. Once he did that and rejected her, Kallen fully tried to kill him with her own hands to make up for her apparently horrifically misplaced trust. Like Shirley before her, it may have been an attempt at a murder-suicide, but that's just speculation.
* Why do people constantly try and apply BlackAndWhite morality to this show when it is supposed to be GreyAndGrayMorality. Lelouch was not a great hero but a terrorist that killed dozens if not hundreds of innocent people for what he thought would help him get revenge on his father for not protecting his mother. The Britannia Empire was not completely bad or oppressive, while the military did seem pretty bad they never attacked first and only responded to terrorist attacks, and the rest of the government took strides not to hurt the Japanese people even if it would help fight the terrorist. This can best be seen when Viceroy Cornelia tried to convince local legislatures to destroy the tunnels and they refused because it would hurt the Japanese economy. While both sides had their share of KickTheDog and PetTheDog moments neither was completely good or bad.
** While I agree about the morality not being stark, the Britannian Empire had a habit of taking over nations through military actions and striping them of every drop of individuality, demoting its citizens to second class (or worse), cheerfully followed a guy who claimed that all morals were mere attempts by the weak to trick the strong into playing by their rules and thus could be completely ignored, ordered pogroms of entire districts to keep their dirty laundry from being aired, and nonchalantly followed said orders when given to them. Even Cornelia, who seemed more interested in protecting/avenging her family and finding a good fight than in any real political goals, was casually racist (classist?) against anyone that wasn't Britannian, at least up until she found out about Geass. While some of them weren't quite that bad, and several of the other factions were quite nasty as well, Britannia as a whole was a cancerous blight upon their world.
*** I do not understand where the stripping cultures of their individuality argument came from, it was only said by Zero in a speech to terrorists. The Britannian settlement culture seems much closer to Japanese then Western culture like they were trying to adapt to the local setting. Also if everyone born a Number was discriminated against how come an Eleven was a high ranking knight of honor and later became viceroy of the area despite Japan only joining 7 years earlier. It seems much closer to the Japan's system where being born in a place does not make you a citizen but you can become one with full rights. The destruction of the ghetto was from the terrorists using human shields against a pursuing military; it was a dammed if you do dammed if you don’t for the military. Also Cornelia was by far the most brutal member of the family since she was the only one who went on offence. Still I do not think she was racist considering the fact she had an Eleven as her personal knight, she did not like the terrorists. Calling the empire a cancerous blight is a bit harsh
*** There's no cultural adaptation. The natives lose their former cultural identities and freedoms and become second-class citizens. And Suzaku became a Knight of the Round for the following reasons: 1) he caught Zero, 2) the Emperor liked his reasoning for turning over Lelouch, and 3) the Emperor knew he could use Suzaku. Suzaku never became viceroy btw. The ghetto never used civilians as human shields. Plus, Euphemia was the one with an Eleven knight, Suzaku; Cornelia had Guilford. Cornelia was incredibly racist towards Numbers to the point where she saw nothing of razing a Japanese civilian ghetto.
*** What evidence do you have that their culture was suppressed besides the black knight saying so. People where seen dressing in traditional japans clothing practicing customs and even apparently adapting there social ideas (have you ever seen a 17 year old western girl reacting to having to kiss somebody like they were being forced to lose their virginity). Also the knight I was referring to was not Suzaku are you forgetting that Gilford was also Japanese a knight and became viceroy, yet nobody bated an eye. I think Britannia apprehension around Suzaku was more because he was the son of a former enemy then that he was a former number. And even though Cornelia was the most brutal viceroy and like her brother considered dead civilians collateral damage, she did attempt to evacuate areas they were planning on attacking.
*** Guilford was Japanese? You must have been watching a different show. And the Japanese were essentially treated like second-class citizens, even Honorary Britannians. And that Cornelia did try to evacuate areas they were planning on attacking was no excuse for the atrocities she made.
** To add to that, the reason for Clovis not destroying or sealing the tunnels was not because it would threaten the Japanese economy, it was because it was too expensive. Clovis wasn't willing to spend that much money to stop the terrorists, because any casualties they caused were simply not important to him. Cornelia did destroy an entire ghetto - even if there was enough time for people to get out - just to lure out Zero. And most of those people would not have anywhere else to live. And the whole execution, not only of the Shinjiku Ghetto's population, but of fellow Britannians in the Babel Tower at the start of R2.
*** Clovis did care about the casualties but it was not his choice to fill in the tunnels it was the legislators, the viceroy only appeared to be in charge of the military. Also of the incidents you mentioned one was done by pursuing terrorist that were attempting to use the people as human shields and the other was done by VV and the Geass cult not the Britannia military.
*** Nothing could be further from the truth. Clovis only cared about covering his reputation. The resistance cell was only trying to get away through the tunnels. They were not attempting to use humans as shields.
*** Clovis cared a lot of thing then his reputation, and considering what it was he did not care about it at all. Also you do not escape into or under a highly populated area if you are not planning on using the people there as shelter.
*** What it was was that he didn't want the project, Code C, getting leaked out or lost. Heck, he cared little about the Elevens to begin with. His speech was just for show, and he admitted as much in private. And the resistance fighters had no other escape path.
** It's more BlackAndGreyMorality. Britannia is quite obviously really, really bad, with the Numbers getting most of the suffering. Lelouch himself tried for the perfect "no ally or civilian casualties" solutions, though with a tendency towards flash and explosions, and those people who die as a result are because of things outside his control - like Diethard having Kallen kill Suzaku, Tamaki being far too trigger happy for his own good, C.C.'s brute force insertion of Babel Tower, Schneizel authorising an anti-city weapon in his own city, or simply not expecting people to be there. Though the novelisations' take on that is that Shirley's father was one of the scientists working on C.C., which is a logical interpretation of the events of the series, so the only major incident of civilians dying as a result of Lelouch is where [[spoiler: Euphemia is driven insane and Lelouch and Suzaku follow behind her.]] Which was unexpected, but a likely outcome of his intended action. Of course, many could argue that makes Lelouch "White", but he does murder several JLF officers because he thinks they're completely useless. Which they do seem to be, but that's not the point.
*** What show were you watching, it was the Britannians who tried to minimalis casualties by evacuating people from areas where they thought battles were going to take place. Lelouch did not really care who died as long as it furthered his goal. This is best illustrated at the battle of mount Narita but he had Kallen detonate the VARIS which caused a giant landslide that killed not only enemy soldiers but also his JLF allies and countless InnocentBystanders who were in nearby towns one of which was Shirley father (who was a geologist working for a mining company). He wagged several other battles in heavily populated areas.
*** Incorrect. Britannia is no more concerned about getting civilians out of areas likely to be affected. In the case of Narita, Lelouch underestimated the landslide's effect. He had no intention of causing that much damage.
*** Thank you, above poster. I just watched the part where Lulu is conflicted about causing Shirley's father's death, and it irked me that he was conflicted at all. Even though Shirley's father never hit her, he joined the Britannian military, which has been proven evil, so that makes him an accomplice to evil at least.
*** He wasn't in the army in the anime as I recall. He was a geographer or some such; at the very least, it was a civilian job.
* Why do people keep saying that Shirley was {{Mind Rape}}d by Mao? When he met her she was already mentally broken having found out that the terrorist who had killed her father was the boy she had a crush on and then panicking and shooting a knight of honor. From there dialog it was pretty clear that she had already decided to kill Lelouch and then herself. While Mao certainly did not help her and gave her a push to go through with her plan, he certainly did not MindRape her. I am not saying that he is not capable of mind raping people as he was shown doing it to Suzaku a few episodes later, he just did not have to do it to Shirley. This is especially ironic considering the fact Lelouch did use his geass to mind rape Shirley later that episode.
** Because Mao did mind rape her. She wasn't dead set on killing him. She arguably wouldn't even have done it, considering she still hadn't accepted shooting Villetta. What he did is classic mind rape, dragging all the skeletons out her closet to haunt her with. There's no other way to describe it.
** Also, ''Lelouch'' [[MindRape Mind Rapes]] Shirley?! What gave anyone that idea? All he did to her was apply LaserGuidedAmnesia and there's no evidence that her mind was any more broken for it....
** He did mind rape her and for the rest of the season she was seen struggling with her memory loss and trying to find out what caused it. When Zero and the black knights appeared in the season final she attempted to attack him and wanted to know what he did to her mind. Sounds like MindRape to me.
*** Come to think of it... this may be a minor detail but when Shirley is first being threatened by Mao why does she just let him MindRape her? Yes, she was going through a hard time, and yes, it's implied she's not too bright; but if a scary-looking punk kid who's at least your age and clearly bigger than you (and possibly stronger) comes up and tries to have a conversation with you your first impulse should be to do anything you can to get away. You don't listen to them, you don't take anything from them.... That's just basic self-defense skills that are even taught to children. Shirley wasn't backed up against a wall, or trapped in a dark alleyway; she was in a wide courtyard, in a presumably more-or-less public place, in broad daylight. So why didn't she do anything to try to get away from Mao or alert someone else? Regardless of whether he was actually determined enough to chase after her she would still stand a chance of getting away. Anyone have any ideas?
*** She did not run and listened to him because she was that mentally defeated after what had happened and she was glad that some one offered her understanding and agreed with what she was thinking, while Mao did give her a push she was already defeated and wanted to avenge her father, Mao offered to help her achieve her goals and she took him up on it.
*** Shirley was too much of a pacifist to actually kill Lelouch, and was quite confused during her time at Narita. While your point that Mao only pushed her still stands, it has to be kept in mind that taking advantage of her broken mind to goad her into killing someone she cares about while calling her evil for what basically amounts to shooting one person and a bit of thoughtcrime regarding Lelouch pretty much fits the definition of MindRape. Lelouch, meanwhile, is a better candidate for ShootTheDog in this case, since it helped her calm down and live normally for a while. At least, until people pointing out her "fight" with Lulu (which didn't fit into her memories), combined with her finding that diary page, caused her to want to ask questions near the end of the series. Also note that she doesn't do anything like turn Lelouch in, and actually figured she was safe and that Lelouch wouldn't hurt the Student Council if they all stayed calm and obeyed the Black Knights during the takeover of Ashford during the Black Rebellion.
* In episode 4 of season 1, during Suzaku's rescue, we get a view of Diethard's van, which has about ten cameras trained on Zero including close-ups. Despite this, Zero is able to open the slot in his mask and Geass Jeremiah, and nobody notices this piece of evidence later, not even Jeremiah himself when he is investigating the cause of his betrayal and memory loss.
* Anyone else gets the creeps by Lelouch's "trade" with Genbu is sound episode .533?
** I doubt he was trading his body. All Genbu wanted from Nunnally was some solid shield to stop Britannia invading. We never find out exactly what Lelouch offers. If anything, I find attempting to marry Nunnnally morally repugnant, and should have blown his chances for re-election completely.
* Lelouch has 10 older brothers (as 11th prince) and 2 older sisters, yet he is 17th in line for the throne. Who else aside from his siblings would be in line before him?
** Younger sisters, for starters (Carine, fifth princess, was only Nunnally's age). There's probably other family members we don't hear about.
*** But why would younger siblings be AHEAD of Lelouch in line for the throne? Sholdn't Nunally and Corrine be considered, like, 18th and 19th in line?
*** Actually Nunnally is 87th in line for the throne, it was stated in R2 episode 7.
*** The wives are also ranked (Marianne was fifth), so even younger heirs from higher-placed wives would have a higher spot.
** There's really no real-world system that fits, no. The best idea is that wives themselves count as possible heirs. Which is absurd, and no monarchy would agree to it, unless the eldest prince is too young to ascend, and only until the prince is old enough.
*** Supposedly, the Britannian system is based upon the Japanese imperial system from a few centuries ago, when the Emperor would take several wives and concubines, have children by them, and have the children ordered according to age and preference. The heirs were known to marry each other as a way to strengthen inter-clan alliances. The Turkish Ottoman system was likely another influence of the ''CodeGeass'' one, where the Sultan would have numerous children by wives and concubines, have them take over provinces as governors/viceroys, and then let them duke it out for the throne once the old king is dead[[hottip:*:[[{{Coldplay}} Long live]] [[FanVid the king!]]]] ([[KlingonPromotion or before then]]). Likely, it's a mix of both systems with a bit of the British system thrown in. Taking all this into account, it's likely that Lelouch is 11th Prince (and Nunnally 11th Princess) due to the warring factors of his and his mother's brilliance and favour with TheEmperor, at odds with his mother's commoner heritage. Also keep in mind that Lelouch is 11th Prince, but it's likely that Cornelia, Guinevere, Euphie, and other Princesses are included in the order after each prince (Odysseus, followed by Guinevere, then Scheizel, then Cornelia, then Clovis, then Euphie, then Carine, etc... then Lelouch somewhere down the line). At one point in a sound episode, a brother by the name of Oscar is mentioned offhand by Schneizel as a possible viceroy for Area 11 before Clovis volunteers. Nunnally could be 87th in line for the throne due to the fact that she is considered useless due to her blindness and paralysis, having been bumped down the list after being reinstated (or being there all along, since she was seven when she was cast out and not particularly useful to Chuck). Lelouch, likewise, would be higher than some of his older siblings due to his genius, but lower than others, hence 17th in line whilst there were 21 princes and princesses ahead of him. Carine likely got so high due to her sheer bloodlust - a valued trait in a racist militaristic empire. Euphie probably got by based on being Cornelia's sister, which is probably why Nunnally was 11th princess to Lulu's prince. The number a royal heir is attached to doesn't always match up with their designated place in the line of succession, it would seem.
* Does it bother anyone else that all the conflicts and problems dealt with on the show (except for the Ragnarok Connection) are either the direct or indirect results of actions taken by two young boys who meet up together 7 years later and cause more problems.
** God yes. I tried to watch this show, having been told to expect DeathNote with {{Gundams}}. What I got was two brats taking out their {{Wangst}} on each other and everything/everyone around them. Get a therapist, you two.
** Except for the part where everything that happens is ''because'' of the Ragnarok Connection, making the events of the series the direct or indirect results of actions taken by two fraternal twins (one of which takes an immortality Code) in an effort to ''kill God'' over the death of their mother. Really, give some credit where it's due.
* When Lelouch faced down Mao with his first videotape ploy, something hit me in hindsight. No disrespect, the plan was awfully nice and everything, you know, besides Mao ''surviving''. Why on earth couldn't he just have employed the services of a ''sniper''? 500 metres is by no means an impossible shot, and it's not beyond Lelouch's means to requisition a character with the skills for the job. To be fair, finding a professional sniper may be difficult, but it is no less unwieldy to Geass a platoon's worth of regular police officers to shoot him up close either, not to mention the whole videotape thing.
** Because that wouldn't be nearly as extravagant. It doesn't fit Lelouch's [[LargeHam M.O.]] Also, from the out-of-universe end, [[RuleOfCool it's not nearly as cool.]]
*** Yes, the sniper would be very anti-climactic. Then again, if you take a look at Cornelia's gun, they may not actually have sniper rifles with that kind of range, or there wasn't any tall enough buildings that weren't public access, etc.
* Why does everybody blame Ohgi and Schneizel for the Black Knight's defection? While it is true learning about Lelouch's past and Geass ability was the straw that broke the camel's back, the coup had been being planed by the Four Holy Swords, specifically Asahina and Chiba, since the massacre of the Geass order and he replaced the previous high command with the Pureblood commander and an unknown Britanian. While the reveal of his identity and powers did probably help with some like Diethard and Tohdoh all the stuff he did leading up to it had probably already sealed his fate.
** There are a number of reasons. First and foremost, Schneizel's claims have virtually zero real evidence behind them. He couldn't prove half of his claims, even if on a base level they were true. The thing is, Ohgi came in, having bought Villetta's story on no evidence at all, and started verifying everything like a damn moron. He's in even less of a position to know for sure, and he's playing Schneizel's game like he has half an idea what he's talking about. Villetta said jump and he did, it's that simple. As for your claim of a coup in progress, that's just nonsense. They may not have trusted him, and Asahina outright betrayed him (and got nuked for it, not that he would have survived against Rolo anyway), but they weren't planning any coup. Chiba especially, who heard nothing about the massacre. Jeremiah and the others were also in no position of power, just trust, which as Rolo notes is the more important thing to Zero. Finally, Diethard was never won over. He was forced into playing along because he couldn't salvage the situation in the face of their irrational behavior. Tohdoh didn't even bring up the cult massacre.
*** Schneizel actually did have proof, he had a recording of Lelouch talking about his powers and admitting what he did to Euphey. Also we don't know exactly Villetta told and showed Ohgi, however she did have recordings of him using his power and talking about it from when she was working with him in the Britannia secret base at school. It also filled in holes about strange behavior people seemed to have around him like why the spearhead of the empire Viceroy Gilford suddenly turned on them, and why the senior commanders of the JLF suddenly decided to commit suicide before they joined Lelouch. Also Rolo and Orange did apparently outrank the swords in the black knights as Rolo overrode an order of theirs to a soldier after the massacre. Also it was pretty clear that the pilot who transmitted the information to Asahina was also broadcasting to her. Tohdoh was seen think about it and what Assahina had said before the meeting but the killing of his top soldiers probably did factor more into it. Finally Diethard did stay loyal because he had suspect that Zero was lying and being underhanded since he blew up General Katase but for some reason he was the one they put all the blame for the coup on.
*** Schneizel didn't have proof Geass existed aside from that recording, and the recording did not go into detail about it. Lelouch being a prince is entirely word of mouth. Villetta didn't have a shred of proof, unless she had a file cabinet in those fishnet stockings of hers. Ohgi believed her on her word alone, which makes him an idiot. The other files were nothing but sensible guesswork (inaccurate sensible guesswork I might add, as they didn't know the truth behind the JLF deaths for starters). The pilot who gave Asahina that data gave it to Asahina alone. Chiba was completely uninvolved. It's a complete fabrication to claim otherwise. Finally, no one pinned the blame on Diethard. Ohgi got the blame because he led the charge. You asked why people blame Ohgi? It's because without him Schneizel's bogus claims would not have moved the Black Knights an inch. Ohgi came in, whipped from the moment he laid eyes on Villetta, and single-handedly made everyone believe Schneizel's unreasonable claims. Without him, it would have never happened.
*** Not to mention that Villetta watching over Lelouch should cast an unfavorable light over her, since she held him back from helping the Black Knights until he blackmailed her. On top of that, she might have known about Lelouch's [[ItOnlyWorksOnce once per person limitation on his Geass]]. Which makes her incredibly untrustworthy.
*** I should point out that Asahina sent the data to Tohdoh and Chiba's Knightmares, and after Zero vanishing during both battles for Tokyo, though in the second case it was because he was being tag teamed by two Knights of Round and four elite pilots until Kallen saved him. Schneizel also said that there was a recording of Zero knowing about the FLEIJA, which while true, was an absurd claim as no weapon of that power had ever been used before, and the idea that it would authorised to be used in an ally city was a level of heartlessness that exceeds anything done in the series before that. Oh, and he didn't have the latter recording, nor did he have Suzaku verify, as that would result in Suzaku admitting that the next part of the former recording was realising that Lelouch DIDN'T do it. And Lelouch's voice is different to Zero's, so they shouldn't have been able to know whether or not it was a fake. And the recording that Schneizel gave said nothing about what Lelouch's powers did, only that he used them. And Schneizel's dossiers of people Lelouch used Geass on was surprisingly accurate, but either stolen from the Emperor, or magically summoned. Either way, the information bared research to validate it, but they certainly shouldn't have tried to execute him so quickly - especially not without input from their other two bosses, Kaguya and Xingke.
*** Lelouch didn't even believe Suzaku at that moment, though, because of the perceived betrayal.
*** There's nothing showing that Chiba got the data, just Tohdoh, and he never brings it up. Zero doesn't vanish, either. The whole time he's calling for help because people keep pinning him down and backup never comes (or Tamaki comes, which is just as useless).
* For R2 Episode 21, just how did Nunnally's being blind and cripple happen, exactly? Marianne was shot during the night, and V.V. calls his buddies to set it up so that Nunnally's the 'witness' to the 'terrorist attack', but it's not like they can reanimate Marianne's dead corpse so that this happens somewhat genuinely (what with Marianne on top of Nunnally as if shielding her and all), and if they drag Nunnally to the scene to play the 'witness' she's ''obviously'' gonna know something's up. Charles isn't aware at that point that his wife got attacked by V.V. so he wouldn't use the mindwipe on Nunnally to make everything fit. With all that in mind, here's what I ''think'' might have gone down: after V.V. shoots Marianne, to set Nunnally up as a witness, they just let her stumble on the scene of her mom on the stairs during the morning. I'm guessing Nunnally tries to pick Marianne up as best as she can at this point, when the windows get shot through (conveniently moving in a straight path across the steps rather than up and down, since the guards are already dead), leaving her cripple with Marianne lying on top of her. Then Lelouch runs in a second too late, sees the aftermath, and doesn't know what the hell. Fast forward to the hospital. Charles comes to visit Nunnally, and she tells him that she found Marianne dead already before anything. Charles figures V.V. had a hand in it, ''then'' he rewrites Nunna's memory to make her think she was with her mother during the 'terrorist attack', ensuring that V.V. doesn't know that Charles knows that V.V. killed Marianne. and oh yeah, Lelouch comes to visit Nunnally later.
** This troper always figured that it never happened during the day. When V.V. told him that Marianne was dead (you can't hide that for long), Charles went in and edited a bunch of memories to make up the daytime scene out of scratch. Later on (or earlier), Marianne contacted him and told him what was up.
** Actually, V.V. acted like he'd just "heard" about it later, so he couldn't have told Charles in the first place. This troper figured someone else (the guards, perhaps) heard the commotion, went inside, and went for the Emperor. Charles then took Nunnally and Lelouch and rewrote their memories so that they believed they'd watched their mother die. He also rewrote the guards' memories, and possibly Cornelia's.
** It went down like so. First, V.V. arranges the meeting with Marianne. Only two guards show up because Marianne sent the rest away and these stragglers didn't pay attention. V.V.'s very existence is a secret, after all. It's the middle of the night, so no one was around to hear him gun them down, except Anya. V.V. then arranged for Nunnally to be brought in, stuffed under her mother's dying body, then woken up rather violently by having her legs shot to hell in the crossfire. This was what he meant by "have Nunnally be the witness." As far as she knows, she was asleep in her mother's arms when everything went crazy. The fuckload of bullets used were also loud enough to start attracting attention. Lelouch and everyone else shows up, sees the faked scene, and V.V.'s complicity in the act is supposedly erased. But it's not, because Marianne took Anya as a SoulJar and told Charles. Now recognizing V.V.'s obsession, Charles rewrites Nunnally's memories to make her blind and probably remove any inconsistencies in the murder setup (or just any memories of the murder scene, other than the knowledge of it happening). No need with Lelouch, he saw what he was supposed to. Same with the guards. Then they're sent off to Japan just so V.V. won't get any bright ideas.
*** Actually, Charles also erases their memories of Anya, and Anya's memories of them, since Marianne doesn't seem able to take permanent control. Of course, that results in large parts of Anya's memories vanishing as an unintended side-effect. Hence why Lelouch has no idea of how or why Anya has a photo of him.
* Why did Marianne and Charles blind and cripple Nunnally in the first place? Why didn't they just change their memory?
** They blinded her as a believable way to deflect suspicion from V.V. that she might have seen through the act. A blind girl isn't going to be deciphering weird details from the murder.
*** One of the novels apparently suggests that it was to make her LivingLieDetector abilities more effective by forcing her to rely on and strengthen her other senses.
*** On the other hand, it may not have been expected. Anya's memory loss seems a lot worse than they may have intended, as well.
** Also, they probably counted on Lelouch's over-protective nature towards her, which for all we know is likely to have been there from the start, making him keep close to Nunnally instead of wandering off to the [[MemeticMutation momeland]] to figure out what's up.
* For the Nunnally Hostage episode, why the heck did Lelouch not just use C.C. in the first place? Why go through all the mind wiping stuff? Also, why didn't Suzaku think it slightly odd that Lelouch's sister was taken hostage by an insane, mind-reading man?
** Because then the entire episode would be spent with Lelouch explaining to Suzaku just WHY he sent a green-haired chick (who has just as little a connection to them as Mao) off to fight what is essentially his battle. As strange as it would be for Nunnally to be taken hostage by an insane mind-reading man, it's not as if Suzaku is actually ''informed'' of it. All he knows is that Mao's a psychopath (and it's not like C.C. knows how to play chess...).
*** You are both forgetting that C.C. was ''in China'' at the time. She came back by the end of the episode. But Lelouch ''didn't know that''.
*** Actually, C.C. didn't go to China. She apparently realised that Mao was around and made her way back to confront him, and since Lelouch didn't know, Mao couldn't stop her. I don't think she expected Lelouch to beat Mao, and it was pure luck that he did - and either way, Mao nearly escaped.
* How come nobody realized that Lelouch and Nunnally Lamperouge looked exactly like and were the same age as a prince and princess who had disappeared during the war. They did not even change their first names yet nobody put the pieces together.
** Lelouch mentions the Ashfords "sheltering" them. Presumably, they were kept away from other people for a few years. (That would be a really lonely few years, to just have each other and Milly for company.) Probably until they started high school.
*** Actually, according to the Sound Dramas, Lelouch and Nunnally don't go to Ashford for several years after the invasion - Lelouch is said to be in mid-puberty, and Japan is conquered when Lelouch is 10.
** Euphemia does recognize Lelouch and Nunally as soon as she lays eyes on them. As for why nobody else does, Lelouch seems to have been a minor prince, and considering how many kids Charles would be able to have with 108 concubines, it's doubtful anybody knows them all by sight. It's worth noting that early in the series, Euphie is able to travel incognito without too much trouble despite being a far more important person than Lelouch; given that, it's reasonable to assume most people simply don't know what those dead kids looked like.
*** Actually, Euphemia doesn't recognise Lelouch when she lays her eyes on him, she's long suspected his identity, and his hair and eye colour only confirm it. Lelouch!Alive + Brown haired blind girl in wheelchair = high chances of Nunnally. Euphemia did have to ask before she was sure in the latter case.
** In the dub version Nunnally says that she is 87th in line to the throne. No one's going to remember 87th anything, trust me.
*** True. The only characters who get recognized are Clovis (3rd prince and Viceroy of Area 11), Schneizel (Prime Minister, genius strategist, and 2nd Prince), Odysseus (1st Prince so Heir Apparent), Cornelia (2nd Princess, practically general of the army, and new Viceroy of Area 11), and when Euphemia gets recognized before becoming Sub Viceroy she is only recognized by Lloyd (a nobleman) and the Pureblood Faction (all made up of extreme purists, knights, and nobility).
*** It seems that Lelouch and Nunnally were major enough to warrant their rather high status (out of 108 consorts and their children, 11th Prince and Princess is still pretty damn high, even if they're only 17th and 87th in the actual succession. Keep in mind that this is what Nunnally says ''after'' she's reinstated, no word on her position before she was exiled). That being said, 11th Prince is still pretty low when compared to Schneizel or Cornelia. Odds are, they were at the mid-level of importance: They won't be recognized on sight after seven years, but Lelouch's name and status is enough to get him recognized when he [[spoiler:seizes the throne]], and informs Jeremiah of who he is in R2. Also keep in mind that not too many people have actually seen what Lulu and Nunna looked like as kids. The student council would have no pictures to compare with, and the only painting of the two and Marianne that was shown was part of Clovis' private collection, rather than at his memorial museum. It wasn't until Anya showed up with her picture in R2 that there was any photographic evidence in front of Lelouch that showed his resemblance to the dead Prince. Besides, while the anime showed Lelouch as changing little, in reality his appearance probably matured more than we realize: the anime simply can't show it. The same reasoning explains why Mao and Nina both seem to look strange compared to the other characters, and why Kallen could pass for two nationalities: the anime's visual constraints don't do the characters' appearances justice.
* How does everyone know how to pilot HumongousMecha? It's shown to all be hand controls, and the level of movement they're getting out of those things is pretty astounding. Shouldn't they be pretty much just falling over the first time they get in?
** This is a genre quirk. Everybody ''knows'' that the control systems for HumongousMecha are ridiculous. The closest you can get to plausibility is ''MacrossFrontier's'' slave system, and even that is kind of a wash. As ''TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' points out, mecha work by "moving these handles - and it goes!". As to your ''other'' question, Lelouch is a trained pilot. He learned by using his mom's old mecha to make pizzas at school festivals.
** I don't know if video games/computer games exist in-universe, but if they did, it wouldn't be surprising if they centered around HumongousMecha (and pizza-making).
** It's mentioned that Suzaku, at least, had done practice runs on Knightmare simulators before being put in the Lancelot.
*** That wouldn't work, for the same reason that playing a FlightSim very well doesn't make you able to fly a plane.
*** Um... is someone gonna tell this guy about modern flight schools? 'cause...
*** Flight schools don't train people using commercial video games.
*** And OBVIOUSLY, Suzaku would have been trained using a military simulator, since he IS a soldier, and it's not completely impossible for it to be part of basic training.
** Also, I just assumed that most of the Britannian Royalty are trained to pilot HumongousMecha (though not necessarily fight) as sort of training and to look good in Chuck's eyes. Even Euphie knew how to pilot one of those things.
** Lloyd actually tossed a manual to Suzaku...who read the 1000 page beast in a couple of hours and comprehended it all. Super technology: Inputting knowledge straight into your brain!
*** That's somewhat odd considering how BookDumb he is. Then again, in one of the audio dramas, he's able to drive a car just by playing video games.
*** It might be just barely plausible that Suzaku could know how to pilot one but it beggars belief to claim that a school girl turned terrorist would have the slightest idea how to use them. Equally puzzling is how the heck Ohgi's group managed to actually get a Knightmare in the first place, according to one of the members they could barely get a bike before Lelouch took over.
*** Ohgi's cell was supplied by Kyoto, same as most terrorist groups. The guy was generalizing. It's far more plausible for Kallen, who's cell is being supplied with weapons, to be taught to pilot a Knightmare than Suzaku, who outright cannot do so, to be given the same training.
*** The majority of their weapons are ineffectual rocket launchers. This opens up the even bigger question of why Kallen was still with Ohgi's group if Kirihara's organization had given her any training.
*** Kirihara's organization supplied terrorist groups. It was not a terrorist group itself. There's no reason for her to join them when they aren't actually doing any fighting. Her group got the short end of the stick as far as supplies went, but it's still something.
*** Plus they apparently had the Glasgow for a while. She could have just learnt via trial and error.
* The OpeningMonologue makes a big deal about how the Britannian Empire has suppressed all Japanese culture. Why, then, is the school system so very like the Japanese school system and not at all like the British system?
** This is fairly common, since the Writer and director don't know American or British culture than they just use Japanese culture and combine it with the British culture of the 1800's. OutlawStar and Gundam Wing did this as well
** For the same reason everyone speaks in Japanese instead of English.
*** But they don't speak Japanese. [[TranslationConvention They speak English which is presented as Japanese]].
*** That doesn't explain the [[GratuitousEnglish accents]].
** It was mentioned at one point that the Ashford Academy is a liberal school, implying that it is not like a typical Britannian school. Considering that Grandpa Ashford is a dissident who has fallen from grace in Britannian society, it does not seem unlikely that he would experiment with a different educational system, even with that of a recently subjugated colony. What bugged this troper more is the fact that an elitist dictatorship even allows a political outcast to run an elite educational institution.
*** Capitalism. Plus, they don't expect ''Barons'' or ''Dukes'' to run schools - they only expect to send their children to schools where said nobles send their children. Plus, many of the students weren't nobles themselves - Nina and Shirley clearly aren't, and Rivalz is on the outs with his noble parents.
* Can anyone explain Suzaku's thought process? Even when he's explicitly ordered to kill unresisting people, and he's well aware the military he's in has killed thousands of civilians, he maintains an "it will all be fine as long as I remain a spineless wimp" attitude. However, he gets furious at Zero for killing soldiers, and it mostly seems like he's objecting to Zero's panache and showmanship. Is a blase attitude towards genocide simply a part of the Japanese mindset, so much so that no one would even think about it?
** He seems to believe that his intent to change the system from within justifies any actions he takes as part of that system.
** Three words: ChronicBackstabbingDisorder. Both Bismarck and Kanon commented that he is someone who constantly betray to go up in ranks.
*** Which isn't true, but it does seem that way. Suzaku was more loyal to Lelouch from the start, and he becomes a Round, not out of treachery, but out of revenge for Euphemia's murder, and his apparent betrayal of the Japanese is an unfortunate misunderstanding that Lelouch accidentally sets in motion.
** It could be a simple case of cognitive dissonance. Mao pointed out that most of Suzaku's ideals are the cause of him trying to retroactively justify murdering his father to save Japan from total annihilation. Though it's true that the subsequent surrender saved Japan's infrastructure and possibly hundreds of lives from being nuked by Britannia, the means he used to were so abhorrent to him that he tries to absolve himself of the guilt by claiming that the means are as important as the end result. Unfortunately, Mao also pointed out that he has an unconscious desire to be punished for the murder which manifests itself as a death wish. Piloting the Lancelot as he does (charging straight into battle and willing to die to take Zero with him) is possibly the most dangerous thing he could do short of running around with knives. Let alone change the system, Suzaku has enough problems living with himself, which is why he's a very tragic character to this Troper...at least until R2 came around.
** Well, Suzaku seems to take the stance that rebelling against the government is just plain wrong. With that stance, the only real way to enact change is to change the government from within by joining it and getting high enough in it to make those changes. Of course, given that in the case of Britannia that pretty much means becoming emperor, that's more or less impossible, but Suzaku seems to believe that he can enact positive changes by working from within. He certainly manages to move up to a fairly high place in the government, so he's able to do ''something'' at least. In any case, because he takes the stance that rebelling against the government is wrong, that basically means that everything Lelouch does against the government is wrong pretty much regardless. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that everything that the government does is right (after all, he ''is'' looking to change it) and he definitely isn't happy about it at times (like when he's ordered to kill the JLF soldiers unconditionally in episode 13 of R1), but for the most part, he does what he's told - probably because that's the only way to get high enough up to enact real changes. However, the farther along we get into
[[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassAndAlternateHistory Code Geass and the more angry he gets about what Lelouch/Zero is up to, the less rational he seems to become. And of course, the less rational he is, the more likely it is for his reasons for doing what he's doing to conflict with what he's actually doing. His anger at Lelouch for [[spoiler:Euphemia's death]] in particular seems to make him act irrationally - and thus less likely to follow any sane train of thought. Really, Suzaku's basic premise seems to be that it's wrong to rebel against the government, so you have to work within the government and do what you can to change it (even if that means some dirty work - though at times he seems to think that dirty work is at least ''somewhat'' justified by the fact that it's the government doing it). However, as the series moves along, his thought process seems to become less rational due to his anger. In the end, I think that the basic idea of what he's up to is at least fairly clear but that his anger leads him to act less rationally and thus follow his basic principles less well as the series progresses.
** Also, from the standpoint of deaths, most deaths which occur in
Alternate History]]
* [[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassMiscellaneousOne Miscellaneous
Code Geass occur because the rebels, well, rebel, and the Britannians stop them. If the rebels weren't rebelling, then the Britannians wouldn't have to fight them and you wouldn't have so many people dying. As such, Suzaku could work within the government to enact change without having to kill people. The fact that Lelouch and his compatriots are fighting the Britannians is what is resulting in so many deaths. So, from Suzaku's point of view, the rebels are just making things worse and they need to be stopped. If they didn't fight, he wouldn't have to either. So, you could argue that Suzaku thinks that everything is the rebels' fault and that he has to do whatever he can to stop them. And since they're rebelling - and thus breaking the law - he feels totally justified in fighting them. Of course, the more powerful and extreme Zero and the Black Knights become, the more powerful and extreme he has to be to stop them, so it just gets worse, but there's nothing that he can really do about that except either give up and join them [[spoiler:(which is ''sort of'' what he did by joining up with Lelouch in the end, though since Lelouch became emperor and no longer a rebel, it's not quite the same...)]] or defeat them (which is what he's pretty much always trying to do).
*** The funny thing about that is that it's because of the rebellion that Suzaku is able to rise in the ranks. An "Eleven" could never get as high as he did if he wasn't so valuable fighting against a threat to the Empire as great as Zero and his Black Knights.
*** On top of that, when left to their own devices, the Britannians would unconditionally turn a blind eye to injustices committed against Numbers, no matter how heinous. The [[SocialDarwinist Social Darwinistic]] nature of the empire actually made any abuse towards them legal.
** Simple. Suzaku is mostly a fairly ordinary KnightTemplar. He believes that the law is absolute and the established order is paramount. But he's somewhat more sympathetic and less unfeeling and cold than the average crusader type.
** At least in the conclusion of the first season, and through the whole of R2, Suzaku opposes Lelouch/Zero because he is of the rather unorthodox opinion that using psychic powers to violate the wills and minds of other human beings is a bad thing. Some people just don't have the stomach for human slavery, I guess.
*** Don't be sarcastic. At first, Lelouch is unwilling to go so far as human slavery - at least without mercy-killing them when he's done. It takes a lot of people he cares for dying before he loses enough morals to do that.
*** Or rather, him being so far gone after the betrayal that he's looking to end his life that it no longer makes any real difference.
JBMs, Page 1]]
* During Lelouch's second chess match with Mao, Mao has it set up so that if the scale tips fully to Lelouch's side (because of the chess pieces he captures), the bomb over Nunnally will be disarmed. Why the heck doesn't Lelouch just physically push down his side of the scale to disarm the bomb, then punch Mao in the face? For someone who's killed countless people, cheating at a chess game would be something he'd do. Even if he doesn't start off with that, why wouldn't he do it at the end of the game when Mao wins and throws the last chess piece on his own side (to set off the bomb)?
** Who's to say that Mao didn't have the scales rigged to explode even if Lelouch won anyway?
** Come to think of it, how on earth did Mao set that bomb up on his own? It's ridiculously heavy and extremely unstable. I mean, it explodes if you mess up it's swinging. How could he possibly have gotten it up there?
*** He probably used his telepathy to learn it from a demolitions expert.
*** It's not so much how he learned, as how he managed to actually set it up. Unless he has a crane hidden away someplace, he couldn't hoist a 1000 pound bomb (let alone a super-unstable one) up to where he did.
*** This is the same guy who has a chainsaw and (if you wanna believe he knows what he's talking about) a house in ''Australia'' and so he's demonstrated a remarkable ability to pull things out of his ass for the sake of teh dramaz.
*** Also, ''punch'' Mao? This is Lelouch we're talking about here. He can't even land a punch on Mao after the latter is weakened and disoriented not five minutes later.
*** Still, it's not as if it's physically impossible or something.
** Mao would simply see that Lelouch was planning on messing with the scale and beat him to the punch...and if you think Lelouch would cheat like that, then you really misunderstand his character.
** Let's not forget that Mao had a gun, and Lelouch didn't.
* Where did we get the spelling "C.C."? I ask merely for curiosity.
** It is from an arcane source known only as "the credits".
** Even without going to the credits, I think in episode two or three (whichever C.C started living with Lelouch) Nunnaly says something like "What a strange, C.C. only going by her initals," even though she says C2 (C^2 ?), too...
* Here's a question that anyone who wears contact lenses will be able to answer: how long did it take you to learn how to put in and take out a contact lens in as much time as it takes Lelouch in ''R2''?
** It's Main/AwesomenessByAnalysis. Don't ask.
** While us normal folk have to take time to hold our eyelids open and try to grab at our lenses, Lelouch has the luxury of having GIANT ANIME EYES, so he doesn't have these problems.
** Another thing that bugged me was where does his lens go when he removes it (in a truly dramatic fashion)? Come think of it, I've never seen it after CC initially gave it to him...
*** Doesn't he just balance them on his finger while going about his order?
** Here's an idea: we've seen him Geass Shirley twice, the second time after the initial Geass was neutralized (you can see the rim around her irises; it took effect, she just couldn't act on it), he could've had Jeremiah un-Geass him then Geassed himself to "be overly dramatic with everything you do regarding your contact lenses".
*** Hey. Lelouch prefers to use skill more than Geass whenever possible. He'd prefer to train for hours to perfect it, rather than rely on Geass.
* Where exactly did Lelouch get the Zero costume? It has an ornate helmet with an automatic mechanism which opens up for the left eye, meaning it's not exactly something he bought from a shop. He procured it ''less than a week'' after he got the Geass. How exactly is he keeping it clean, since his maid has never seen it?
** It's shown explicitly that he Geassed someone to custom-make it for him, and then forget about making it/destroy all evidence it was made. Presumably he cleans it himself or CC does it. Episode 4: His Name is Zero. It was right before he made his debut as Zero.
*** OHHH, so that's what that man was designing...[[CompletelyMissingThePoint I thought Lelouch acquired the Guren from that guy]]
*** Actually, I do completely get the point, but I thought that's the guy he got the big mobile base from.
* If Britannia is the unholy union between U.K and America why is there nobody wearing a cowboy hat and a monocle, we occasionally see someone bust out the monocle but never with a cowboy hat.
** If this troper remembers correctly, Britannia settled the U.S, but there was no revolution, meaning that it essentially got annexed into the Britannian Empire when Britannia decided to [[PinkyAndTheBrain try to take over the world!]]
*** According to the official backstory, American Revolution never got off the ground because the British monarchy bribed Benjamen Franklin. When, later, Britannia got into a war with Europe and lost, the government fled to America and conquered it.
*** Bribed Benjamen Franklin? I think you mean: Geassed Benjamin Franklin.
*** No, he means bribed. There's no indication they had Geass way back then.
*** acctualy geass did exist back then, how old is c.c.? what about the immortal nun (who lived long nuf to go batshit insane)? geass may not have been controlled by britannia, but it existed.
*** The real Benjamin Franklin was an uber-patriot. Unless his Geass-Verse personality was completely different it makes much more sense to assume that the bribe was a lie to hide the existance of Geass. As the discusison on the Napoleonic Wars on this page mentions the implication in Geass being 'The power of the king' is that many important people have had it and that most of the divergences from the real world were caused by it.
*** Always possible, I'll admit, but it's a common saying that every man has his price. Maybe Britannia just isn't as cheap.
*** Money isn't the only way to bribe people! Just look at how they got Suzaku to join and you might figure out how Franklin may have turned in this universe.
*** The history segments in the
[[JustBugsMe/CodeGeassMiscellaneousTwo Miscellaneous Code Geass [=DVDs=] (Japanese?) claim that C.C. was around then and knew Benjamin personally. "After all, Ben was a kind man who loved research more than battles... much too kind, really."
* I don't understand exactly the idea with the Britannian Empire being the initial developers of the mecha used in the series. Apart from the likes of Transformers and possibly BattleTech, the British and the Americans have never been particularly enchanted towards the idea of the gigantic humanoid-shaped robotic war machine. The closest that science fiction in America gets towards the mecha is usually the likes of the "Starship Troopers" style battlesuit rather than the full-sized mecha.
** It's been well established that the Code Geass world is vastly different from our own based on a number of seemingly small historical differences, so it wouldn't be hard to imagine people getting crazy ideas about giant mecha. Plus, with the discovery of Sakuradite and its massive energy output, it gave scientists the resources to just totally let go.
** From what I've read, The idea started from when an ejection seat on more traditional vehicles was created, that was eventually fitted with robotic legs to help in escaping. Scientists eventually just took that idea to its [[FridgeLogic logical conclusion]].
** This is a world in which Japan is part of the British Empire, the EU was founded in the 19th century, and immortals can give people magic eye powers. It's entirely possible someone outside Japan got the idea. Come to think of it, ''StarWars'' had mecha in it in the real world and that's 100% American.
*** Try and tell me that again after you look at the lightsaber fights. Lucas is 100% weeaboo.
** Actually, some guy made a real life HumongousMecha, and so far the only use he can think of for it is to fight other such mechs for entertainment. Oh, yeah, back to the point, the guy's American, so it's more likely than you think.
* Why did Zero have to kidnap the Empress? Couldn't he have just worked with Xingke from the start rather than piss off all three (Britannia, Eunuch's faction, and Xingke's faction) warring factions at once? If he had worked together with Xingke, he could have easily overcome the Eunuchs, rather than that whole drawn out fight, and Britannia would have no excuse to interfere in a civil war (they only interfered because the Black Knights were considered terrorists, they Britannians withdrew the second it became a civil war.)
** There were fundamental differences between their causes. Xingke was wholly concerned with the Empress and that was it. There were two logical outcomes without Lelouch's interference: A) Xingke would have failed, resulting in the Eunuchs selling out to the Britannians; or B) Xingke would have succeeded, and China would immediately become isolationist. Xingke was far too proud to deal with the Black Knights, and any new government established under him would not have dealt with them. What Lelouch accomplished by striking first was getting Xingke to prove he was incapable of standing by himself. Lelouch had to save him, which proved that they had to work together.
*** But after the first Knightmare fight between China and the Black Knights (the one where Kallen gets captured) Lelouch thinks to himself that he should've killed Xingke when he had the chance. That kind of undermines the working together idea.
*** Well, of course. Kallen is far more important to Lelouch than Xingke was, no matter who skilled and useful he was.
*** Lelouch's original intention was to use the Empress to gain the people's support. He does try to convince Xingke that he couldn't do so himself (Lelouch makes the reference to while kidnapping her). As is common for this show, it's only when Xingke pulls some SuperPrototype out of nowhere does Lelouch regret not having done a better job of dealing with him. Still, getting Xingke as an ally worked as a backup plan. The main point is that Xingke would not have cooperated before being shown his own weakness, and in a scenario where he successfully kidnapped the Empress instead of Lelouch, Britannia would have laid waste to China.
* Why is the heavily atheist empire on the show called the ''Holy'' Empire of Britannia?
** "Shinsei Britannia Teikoku" certainly seems to resemble the description used for the Holy Roman Empire (Shinsei Roma Teikoku). However, shinsei, in and of itself, can mean holiness, sacredness, or "dignity". Most likely, the description is just meant to imply that Britannia is more civilized than the other major powers.
** ''Where'' do people keep getting the atheism from? From ''where'', besides the Emperor's constant speeches about equality being a sin and the world being full of lies, do you get that atheism is an institutional policy for said Holy Empire? If you can provide me the quotes, it's probably just an institutional relic of a name.
*** The Emperor's attitude towards equality and the world have nothing to do with religion, or the lack thereof.
*** Sure it does. If you say something (in this case, equality) is a sin, that implies a religious basis of judgment, does it not?
*** Not necessarily; the term sin can be and is used secularly to refer to any perceived evil, and this seems to be especially prevalent in Japan. It implies a value judgement, but not necessarily a religious one. As for the religious leanings of the Brittanian empire, it's safe to say that it does not prohibit religion (you'll notice that Ashford academy has a chapel, which is where Mao has his game of chess with Lelouch), but Emperor Charles himself, at least, is anti-theistic. His master plan absolutely reeks of RageAgainstTheHeavens, and if IIRC he at one point declares the Ten Commandments to be among the lies that fill the world (so ''at the very least'' he personally is anti-Christian).
** For some reason, this troper seems to remember reading either the word "atheism" or "atheist" at least once in a subbed version of the show. The word was a reference to Britannia but as said troper has no idea just which episode it came from, she is now considering the possibility that she imagined it...Still, surely it's a little odd that they are the "Holy" Empire - they're not Christians (as one might expect from the descendants of parallel-world Britons) and they don't seem to follow any other religion as a nation. Why is this?
** The historical Holy Roman Empire warred and clashed often with the Roman church I recall.
*** That's not quite the same - they actually had a religion (which was in most parts considered Roman Catholic anyways but that's neither here nor there) and one gets the impression they called themselves the Holy Roman Empire partially because they believed theirs was right. What religion is there in Britannia?
*** You have to remember that the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire.
*** The show is set in 2012. Just because it was initially a heavily religious empire does not mean that it is one currently. Probably there are a few Christian relics like the very name of the empire or the coronation ceremonies of the emperor.
*** Note that Britannia was formed when Julius Caesar's armies were repelled by a Celtic super king, around 50 BC. It wouldn't really make sense for Britannia to adopt a "foreign religion", as Christianity would have been seen, over three hundred years later. Also, the series is technically set in 1967, which is 2017 years after the Britannian empire was formed (A.T.B. 2017).
*** Actually, while they say that is so, the Britannian Empire was founded some three or four hundred years prior, and the Celtic super king, who may or may not have existed, was declared to exist in order to validate the Britannian Royal Family's claim to the throne. It's propaganda.
** Cornelia pretty much stated this out loud when she met VV.
** Most of the people seem to be Catholic (see Mr Fennette's funeral). It's probably just a facade on the part of the rulers.
** It's probably more along the lines of "Rule of Cool".
** Wouldn't the fact that Emperor Charles is trying to kill God imply he believes one exists?
*** Yes. Atheism is nothing more than the complete and utter lack of belief in any higher power or afterlife. No theistic leanings whatsoever. Since he wants to kill a God, he believes in it. Ta-da, he ain't an atheist.
*** True, but that doesn't make much of a difference. There are real atheists today who don't merely reject faith, but consider the portrayals of God/gods in various religions (particularly Christianity) to be evil and unfit for worship anyway. Even if you could prove the existence of a deity to these people, they may acknowledge its existence but still wouldn't worship it, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to try a deicide plot like Emperor Charles's. These people don't so much think that belief in and worship of gods is ''logically untenable'' so much as ''morally repugnant.'' It's likely that Charles, if he hadn't found proof of the existence of "gods" through his research of Geass, would be just such an atheist. And even if he does personally acknowledge the ''existence'' of a deity, his hatred of it would be all the more motivation to create legal injunctions against worship.
*** Wow, [[YouKeepUsingThatWord way to misappropriate words.]] That's a PERFECT definition of misotheism, but a terrible one for atheism.
** ''Holy Empire of Britannia'' is a reference to the ''Holy Roman Empire'', and is used to denote that Britain rebuilt on the other side of the Atlantic, but isn't really very British anymore, as far as the islands themselves are concerned. It does contain much alternate-history british culture, though. As for religion, you can't just go by several characters to determine the religion of the people. Christianity still took root in Scandinavia, Germany, and many parts of Eastern Europe that weren't part of the Roman Empire, so it's not much of a stretch to assume that it took root in Britannia. However, it could have several religions: I'd guess Christianity, Judaism, and Celtic Polytheism. Christianity is probably based on Anglicanism and the Celtic Catholic Church (see [[spoiler:Shirley's and her dad's funerals]]). The polytheism is likely where the references to the "gods" comes in (even though it refers to the collective unconsciousness of mankind). Charles was being metaphorical. In the end, he probably didn't care: Chuck believes in Chuck, Cornelia believes in her own strength, etc.
** In the Nightmare of Nunnally manga, the Emperor is [[spoiler:Pope of the Geass Order]], and [[spoiler:stages a coup to install the cardinals as area governors]], which might explain the religious aspect of it. Then again, [[spoiler:the name changes from the "Holy Britannian Empire" to the "Holy Faith Nation of Eden Vital"]]
*** In Charles' speech after Garma Zabi's, oops, I mean Prince Clovis' death he specifically quotes some of The Ten Commandments exactly and says they are lies.
** I'm wondering why no one stated that in episode 10, before the battle of Narita, there is a dialogue between Lelouch and C.C. and in the subbed version C.C. asks why Lelouch changed his family surname, but not his christian name Lelouch. This implies he / his family and therefore the royal britannian family is christian.
*** Not really. Though a very odd choice of words, a christian name, by definition (one of them anyway), refers to a person's first name. It doesn't imply and religious affiliation.
*** That must be a sub or a fansub, since my recollection of the dub doesn't use the term "Christian name", going for the more common, blander designations of "first" and "surname".
* In episode 15 of R2, Why in the world did Lelouch not just get his mech and beam spam his dad? I don't care if Charles is immortal, a beam spam is going to slow down anyone. From a more practical standpoint, being in the mech would have protected him from Charles' Geass, sinse there's no direct eye contact. And while he did eventually get back in it, there's still no reason why he couldn't have done it then, or at least used a simple punch or kick to incapacitate him temporarily.
** Besides the fact that Lelouch was seriously freaking out when Charles stood back up? You seriously think that he has the physical ability to incapacitate that massive ape with a punch or kick?
*** He ''meant'' kick him using Shinkirou.
*** Presumably because broadcast regulations wouldn't allow them to show Charlie being stomped into a fine paste (which would really test the limits of Code regeneration)
** Do you think you would be able to climb into the cockpit of your mecha before Emperor Charles pulled out that gun he had in his coat and shot you in the chest?
* Episode 18 of R2. [[DisContinuity 'Nuff said]].
** That episode was great. It wasn't even the Main/DiabolusExMachina from the end of the last season. Everything that happened in it was foreshadowed adequately. Though, Suzaku has ''really bad aim''.
*** You know, if his aim was good and it hit Kallen, I'm pretty sure he'd be caught in Freya's blast radius and become very dead, so I'm a bit hesitant to attribute that whole thing on his "Live" Geass, unless he meant for Kallen to dodge it in the first place.
*** So you're saying Suzaku ''didn't'' miss?
*** I'm not sure, because not missing Kallen would've meant mean death.
*** I don't think Suzaku missed either. Geass in general and "live on" in particular are able to use a person's knowledge and skills. Under-Geass Suzaku didn't shoot the nuke at Kallen because he knows that hitting a tactical target (one EXTREMELY close range Knightmare) with a strategic weapon won't let him live. However, demonstrating the monstrous power of this as-yet-unused weapon and taking out some other Black Knights would.
* Why do people hate Suzaku so frigging much? The person he is being a dick to ''killed his girlfriend after turning her into a monster''. Why should he treat Lelouch with anything approaching respect and affection after the ''mind rape and execution''? Gee, I guess he's a terrible person for turning in his so-called "best friend", the guy who he thinks ''orders genocide for his own gains'', to get a promotion so he can help people. He could have ''killed'' Lelouch and he would have been perfectly justified in his actions! It's not like Lelouch ever tried to explain that the whole Euphinator thing was an accident, either, so to Suzaku he's a ''self-admitted mind-raping bastard''.
** One, Geassing her was an accident. Two, killing her was the solution. Three, the reason why Lelouch didn't bother explaining himself for the whole Euphie thing is quite simply common sense. 'I forgot my Geass was on' is ''never'' a good excuse for ''ANYTHING''.
*** That, and he turned over Lelouch over to the man who turned on Lelouch himself and made him into what he was, Charles, who then proceeded to screw Lelouch even worse not only by separating Nunnally from him and planning to use her as a hostage against him, but also rewriting the memories of Nunnally, Marianne, the Zero persona being his own, and that he was ever part of the Britannian family to begin with, all of which were defining traits behind his own existence, into obscurity. Suzaku had reason to be angry with Lelouch, but trusting the person responsible for not only much of Lelouch's and Nunnally's own strife throughout his lifetime, but also the corruption Lelouch, and in his own roundabout way, Suzaku, were trying to fight? Talk about misaimed blame.
** Because essentially Suzaku is willing to work within a hopelessly corrupt and evil system, and is only doing so for the benefit of a small number of people within that system, and that largely only to ease his own conscience. Lelouch admits that he is evil, Suzaku still thinks he is somehow noble.
** I agree with the above opinion and I also want to add that Suzaku also has some selfish, hypocritical thinking going on, yearning for death as some sort of redemption for killing his father and essentially letting the Japanese get screwed over, and then joining those same conquerors who treat his people like crap, all the while saying he'll "change it from within" (I look and look again and see no attempt at the changing, and hell, he now seems to be Japanese only in blood and name).
*** He sees the Knight of One title as his opportunity in R2 to rule over Japan. Not that it excuses the work he does for Britannia as a Knight of the Round in destroying enemies of Britannia.
** Suzaku killed his own father and then helped everyone around him cover it up when he realised things had gotten out of hand when he was ''ten''. And he did this rather than tell the truth and at least ''try'' to finish the work his father had started (which most would think of as being the noble thing to do as he got older). Also, ever since Euphemia died, he seems to have gotten increasingly hypocritical and hard to like...
*** Oddly enough, the positions are reversed in the Suzaku of the Counterattack Manga; Suzaku kills Genbu after telling the Emperor the location of the members of the Japanese government who want to continue the war. In Nightmare of Nunnally, Suzaku doesn't kill Genbu; C.C. does, in order to protect Lelouch and Nunnally. In both versions, Suzaku tends to be more focused on his morals, and is not party to atrocities.
** Not to mention, it's because of Suzaku that ''Japan ended up as Area 11''. You know, back then Premier Kururugi the ONLY one who posed a serious threat to Britannia and he was ready to kill himself and LOTS of people to take the Empire down. That's quite the hard weight on * anyone's * shoulders. Still, people love to forget it because, unlike Lelouch, Suzaku is "not cool enough".
** The way Suzaku is, it's as though he's forgotten his goal, forgotten the views he "so valiantly" holds up and just went off the deep end.
** Three words: ChronicBackstabbingDisorder.
** Then four more words: DracoInLeatherPants. Seems [[FanDumb some people]] can't figure out that Suzaku is the antagonist, so if you want to lionize him you're the one that's leather pantsing.
** And how it's Lelouch NOT a DracoInLeatherPants? Your fixation on Suzaku bering the * ONLY* DILP is ''insane''.
*** Lelouch accomplished world peace. He may have taken monstrous means to achieve it, but he actually created a unified world and accepted punishment by being a permanently despised despot and being killed by his best friend. Suzaku's punishment is to live as the (supposed) hero and savior of the world. Gee, Lelouch really is just as bad as Suzaku.
*** Which doesn't change the fact that he's a DILP as well as Suzaku. They're BOTH DILPs; you just seem to think that the one that's worse than the other having fans makes him the ONLY DILP in the series.
*** In other words, Lelouch succeeded where Suzaku failed. Lelouch and Suzaku are both [[SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes Type IV antiheroes]] ''at absolute best,'' with each spending at least some time at Type V and even outright villainy. They're both NecessarilyEvil [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well Intentioned Extremists]], but where Lelouch tends toward the chaotic end of the scale, Suzaku favors the lawful. Why do more people seem to favor Lelouch? Maybe it's because he actually gets results in the end, where Suzaku just seems to end up doing little more than help the evil empire. Maybe it's because people see Lelouch as more sympathetic due to the story being told predominantly from his side of things. Maybe it's because people just tend to resent authority, and so are more likely to favor the rebel trying to tear it down from the outside over the participant trying to change it from within.
** Also, it doesn't help that Suzaku is so self-righteous, thinking that whatever side HE'S on is the only side that's right. He only sees things in black and white, and the worst part is that the series actually depicts him as being the one that's [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop RIGHT]]. Another thing that is incredibly annoying about him: He constantly owns Lelouch at everything. His mecha is an extreme example of a DeusExMachina, where, no matter how much Lelouch plots and plans strategies, all it has to do is go out and it will be an instant win. It's also incredibly frustrating that the storyline works its way around him illogically just so he can stick around and conquer Lelouch. Example: Lelouch turns into a moron when he's around Suzaku, not using his geass on Suzaku to order him to leave Britannia and live an ordinary life. It doesn't make sense, because, looking at Lelouch's personality normally, that would definitely be in character for him to do.
*** If you'll notice, Lelouch specifically avoids Geassing his friends and was quite unhappy to end up having to Geass Suzaku. On top of that, he didn't even know that Suzaku was the pilot of the Lancelot until episode 17 of R1 - the episode before he Geasses him. And at that point, he was trying to convince Suzaku to join him. So, he never really had the opportunity to Geass Suzaku to get rid of him before he actually knew that Suzaku was a problem.
** Well, first off, Suzaku is the antagonist. That automatically is going to make him at least somewhat disliked. Pretty much regardless of what the protagonist is like or what the antagonist is like, because we expect the protagonist to be the good guy that we support and the antagonist to be the bad guy that we want to fail, we automatically start out willing to give the protagonist the benefit of the doubt while we're hard on the antagonist. So, simply because of their places in the story, we're far more willing to forgive Lelouch and say that what he's doing is necessary while Suzaku is an idiot. So, they're not on a level playing field to begin with. Now, add to that the fact that Suzaku is willingly working for the bad guys who discriminate against everyone who isn't them and are trying to take over the world. That makes Suzaku even less popular. Now add the fact that he keeps getting in Lelouch's way when he's doing cool stuff and we get that much more annoyed with him. Depending on the viewer, these facts alone may be enough to really dislike him, but the real killer is his attitude. He comes across as rather self-righteous in his denunciations of Zero and Zero's methods - in particular the fact that what Zero's up to costs lives - and on top of that, he's killing plenty of people himself. So, it becomes quite easy to view Suzaku as a self-righteous hypocrite. And since Suzaku generally becomes more unreasonable as the show goes on (primarily due to his anger over Lelouch's actions - particularly [[spoiler:the death of Euphemia]]), it becomes that much easier to dislike him. He probably gets more of a bad rap than he deserves, but while he says that he's doing what he's doing for the greater good, he's constantly blocking Lelouch from actually achieving that greater good, and while he's at it, he has an attitude that really rubs people the wrong way. So, it's no wonder that so many people dislike him.
*** There's also how the characters are portrayed in the side materials. A lot of people pay attention to those, and they tend to change many viewers' perceptions of the characters. For example, Clovis was portrayed as a genuinely loving older brother who cared about his siblings and thought that he was doing Lelouch and Nunnally justice with his actions in Japan (state-policy racism + vengeance for dead family will do that to your morals), and also as a ChivalrousPervert, making him ''much'' more sympathetic in the eyes of the fans. The side materials are also credited on this site as one of the main reasons why Clovis won the [[http://code-geass.bandai-ent.com/poll/pollb.php North American popularity poll]] (which, as you'll notice, Suzaku didn't even place on). A similar situation happened with [[EnsembleDarkhorse Jeremiah Gottwald]], who was given a sympathetic treatment in one sound episode where he explained his motivations vis-a-vis Marianne and her children. This, combined with his [[TheWoobie humiliation]] and increasingly over-the-top appearances, made him the most loved character in the show. This despite massacring a ghetto in the first episode. However, getting to the point, Suzaku actually experienced the ''opposite'' treatment by the show. On top of the dickish moves made on-screen in the series proper, side materials actually get into his actions in between R1 and R2: in one picture drama/sound episode Suzaku helps conquer a new area and then finds a little girl in the rubble, after treating her, she finds out that they're Britannian and starts screaming and crying at them about how her father and brother were good people and that the knights murdered them. Maybe it was just me, but it became harder to sympathize with Suzaku after that. Later picture dramas would give us another gem: Suzaku, Scheizel, Kanon, and the Rounds all enjoying a day out at a casino (whilst the Black Knights are, ostensibly at the point in the series, fighting for their lives and exiled en-masse). This, combined with what we know about Lelouch's crappy childhood and the suffering of the other Japanese characters, makes the Black Knights in general and Lelouch in particular look like Woobies compared to the evil decadent Britannians, despite what the entry below would have you believe. From a PR point of view, it's just hard to see Suzaku as the good guy. Not that I think Suzaku is really evil, just doing what he does best: acting on his emotions, in the case of his feelings about Lelouch, anger.
*** Somehow I think the results of that popularity poll have a lot more to do with certain meme producing ImageBoards than side materials. (As for the picture dramas: Interpretations vary. There's at least one person on this wiki who has used that very one as argument for why Gino is a bad person compared to Suzaku - contrasting Gino's "the strong live and the weak die" to Suzaku's "the strong should protect the weak". [[http://kay-willow.livejournal.com/292364.html And different forums]] seem to see Suzaku's actions in it differently.) To sum up my point properly: I don't think anyone has ''really'' had their opinion changed by the spinoff material. People just use it to reinforce what they already believe. If you are inclined to dislike Suzaku, you see it as "Oh look, Suzaku is doing something bad again." If you are inclined to find him sympathetic, you see it as "Oh look, another example of how it really sucks to be Suzaku." Good ol' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias confirmation bias]].
*** I'd call the Picture Dramas [[AllThereInTheManual supplementary and fill in the blanks,]] rather than spinoff material. (The manga and novels are spinoff material.) And I'd say it cuts both ways for Suzaku. What that picture drama did was highlight the early part of his MotiveDecay. And owing much to happening earlier, it was admittedly light compared to the in-series material, especially Turn 14, when Suzaku requests to Nunnally that he be able to interrogate then prisoner Kallen, who she was having a conversation with. He refers to Kallen [[YouAreNumberSix by her prisoner number]], which [[WhatTheHellHero visibly disturbs Nunnally]]. Also note the irony in that the people of his and Kallen's home country, Japan, are called by Numbers. [[ItGotWorse It only gets worse from there]] before Suzaku [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone bottoms out]].
** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirley died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.
*** I can clarify those concerns. And to clarify, it was also because of serendipity, not to mention his role in opposing the rebellion Lelouch started as Zero, that Suzaku was able to get so much leeway. Without the rebellion, Suzaku would have stayed put, more likely than not. More to the point, in light of both of their faults and aside from the typical reasons, Lelouch seems to score more points with the fandom because he actually has a plan, not to mention more overall vision, in that he plans on fixing the world, whereas Suzaku at best cares only about Japan, and usually [[TheFool has no idea of what he's doing]]. Worse, Suzaku himself is one of the biggest [[SpannerInTheWorks spanners]] for Lelouch, ruining the latter's plans when they would otherwise bear fruit, and thus prolonging the conflict. It's not hard to be annoyed on Lelouch's behalf a little more often, in that his plans tend to falter through DiabolusExMachina so often. While it was unfortunate what happened to Euphie, not to mention understandable how it would affect Suzaku, R2 still highlights how far he has jumped off, in that he is helping with Schneizel's EU campaign in hopes of currying favor up at the top. While the goal of getting Japan as a protectorate is a noble one, the means, which come at the expense of other countries, more than negate it. It is true that he didn't drug Kallen, but he only stopped himself because he in his own mind didn't want to be compared to Zero, not because he cared about Kallen. In addition, throughout the season, he let Nunnally be used as a pawn, and once did so himself, [[WhatTheHellHero much to her displeasure]]. Don't get me wrong; in the end, I felt more pity in the end for Suzaku, as he learned his lesson in the end. And speaking of [[DespairEventHorizon broken people]], Lelouch was there in the end as well, to the point where his final solution was in of itself [[DeathSeeker a thinly veiled excuse for suicide]]. In the end, the Scrappy Ball had been passed over to Oghi [[LoveMakesYouDumb for]] [[TheStoolPigeon very]] [[SwissMessenger good]] [[KarmaHoudini reason]].
*** Yeah, Suzaku was broken long before Lelouch, and I did like him a lot less in R2, up until his HeelFaceTurn, or was it FaceHeelTurn...... hmmm. It seems a major reason people hate Suzaku is because he [[SpannerInTheWorks lobs spanners]] into Lelouch's plans. That's a real YMMV for me, cuz I loved all those [[BigDamnHeroes moments]]. I guess I just hate Lelouch that much, but thank you for explaining that too me from the point of view of someone who doesn't hate Suzaku.
* For that matter, why do people ''like'' Lelouch so much? The series basically rewards him and treats him heroically for being the world's biggest dick and infecting others with his dick-ish attitude.
** The series REWARDS him!? Lelouch probably has the worst luck in the entire universe, and karma is the only explanation that doesn't break willing suspension of disbelief. What's fun about Lelouch is that even with the entire universe seemingly existing to fuck him over, he stays determined with his outrageous plans managing to continue to come out on top.
*** This troper think that the troper who asked this question is on crack. Since when does having your girlfriend killed by your fake brother, having your mother killed off by your uncle, having to fight against your best friend, having to fight against your sisters (and accidentally forcing one to go homicidal and then be forced to kill her), having to fight against your parents because they were willing to sacrifice you, becoming a symbol of everything that mankind despises and being assassinated by your best friend constitute a reward? Lelouch's only reward is that his sister is safe and that's not really a reward so much as what Nunally deserved.
** It's because he's a badarse rebel with disturbingly good planning skills. That and because he's at least honest about his morals (or his lack of them).
** A dick though he may be, he's honest to himself and those chosen few he trusts. And while his methods of getting what he wants are underhanded and sneaky, his goals are far better than the guys on the other side of the war.
*** I couldn't have said it better.
** It's purely a plot to make Suzaku fans whine. Yes, you caught us.
** First off, he's the protagonist, so we're automatically going to want to like him and give him the benefit of the doubt. So, we're far more willing to forgive him for doing nasty things than if the story were told from a different point of view. Next off, he's fighting against the evil empire that's busy discriminating against everyone else and trying to take over the world. And probably most of all, he's just plain ''cool.'' I mean, sure he does things that he really shouldn't. He's not necessarily the nicest guy. But he's a [[MagnicentBastard genius]] and is constantly pulling [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome crowning moments of awesome]]. So much of what he does is just plain ''[[RuleOfCool cool]].'' So, while you may not always agree with his methods, he's so cool that much of the time it just plain doesn't matter - or at least you let it slide. He also has a much better attitude about things than Suzaku does. He's a bit narcissistic, but he fully acknowledges that what he's doing isn't necessarily nice. And, as Diethard pointed, ''he gets results.'' Lelouch may be too willing to be nasty at times, but he's definitely cool.
*** The DesignatedHero protagonist argument only goes so far though. Plenty of straight [[TheRival antagonist]] AntiHero characters have been favored over the protagonist, often attributed to DesignatedProtagonistSyndrome, regardless of whether or not the protagonist is boring. Some of the more notable examples have included [[InuYasha Sesshomaru]], [[{{Yu-Gi-Oh}} Seto Kaiba]], and of course, [[MobileSuitGundam Char Aznable]]. CodeGeass simply flipped the script by having the protagonist be the ByronicHero, while at the same time serving as a [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruction]] by him having heroic motives and a more sympathetic characterization. And the other aforementioned characters received more than enough screentime to be portrayed and/or act more sympathetically, but just didn't. It certainly doesn't help things that [[CosmicPlaything the universe often has it in for Lelouch when he's trying to do the right thing]], or that the only other characters with any true vision and competence, namely Xing-ke and Kaguya, can be counted with one hand, with the rest impeding any hopes for world peace in one way or another. To put it another way, if not for Suzaku's [[SpannerInTheWorks troublesome interference]] or [[SwissMessenger Ohgi convincing the Black Knights to betray Lelouch based on suspicious evidence]], Lelouch would have never flown [[DespairEventHorizon off the deep end]] and resorted to a [[ThanatosGambit self-sacrificial gambit for world peace]] [[GenghisGambit that hinged on him creating even more destruction]], and leaving the world without his talents in case of another conflict, which is too likely, since it is impossible for humans to cease hating on the currently existing, and to focus all the hate on one person is [[FridgeLogic questionable at best]]. Add to that that many of the undeserving people, including Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia, got happy endings, and it's pretty clear why Lelouch gets a lot of enduring sympathy.
*** Infact, Lelouch may suffer from DesignatedProtagonistSyndrome himself, which is too likely due to the show's BrokenBase, and his status as a BaseBreaker. There are a lot of people who have sided with Britannia, and even view Gino as an okay guy, mistaking his [[UpperClassTwit cluelessness]] for [[HarmlessVillain harmless idiocy]], ignoring some of his declarations (he often believed that mass violation of Britannian law was a pretext to a purge) and his [[CombatPragmatist questionable and dangerous battle tactics]]. Not as {{egregrious}}, though still suspicious, is the praise Guilford himself gets. While he is honorable and sympathetic, many of his fans mistake his valor for heroism. While he doesn't kick any dogs, he certainly doesn't go out of his way to help improve things, from being the knight of the brutal [[TheBaroness Cornelia]], and eventually being a more benign case of ObstructiveBureaucrat in R2. Evidently, he scored sympathy points after getting geassed by Lelouch (which ended up being out of necessity), almost getting caught in the F.L.E.I.J.A., losing his sight, and finally making it back to Cornelia. That he stands in the way of most efforts towards peace, whether or not by his own design, are overlooked.
** That, and contrary to Suzaku, he never once forgets the cause of his, as well as the rest of the world's problems: Britannia.
*** So Lelouch is flawed and does several villanous things but we don't care and forgive him because he's ''cool?'' Congragulations, you just described DracoInLeatherPants perfectly!
*** Something tells me that this issue, as well as the issue previous, is one of the greatest themes of the series. Both Suzaku and Lelouch desire something good, but pursue evil and increasingly hypocritical means. It's also kind of a NotSoDifferent idea, with the both of them.
*** And yet so much FanDumb ''on this very wiki'' keep on claiming that Lelouch is a pure heroic savior whose evil extremist actions were all perfectly justifiable because they were against Brittania. And yet Suzaku is a CompleteMonster whose evil extremist actions against ''the guy who killed his girlfriend'' are unforgivable. And they say Suzaku sees things in black and white?
*** Nobody claims that Lelouch is a pure heroic savior here, or at the least, if they do, they're exagerating, they simply say he's generally more correct than Suzaku is. Britannia is a truly corrupted and f'ed up system, and Suzaku is perfectly willing to follow their orders in the hopes of changing the system from within, even though that goal is obviously a hopeless one right from the start. When Britannia starts doing horrible things in the name of victory, Suzaku just ignores that and continues his self-righteous nonsense, whereas Lelouch actually acknowledges the immorality of his actions.
*** There's probably an interesting debate - though this isn't really the place for it - about the respective morality of doing horrible things out of ignorance versus ''knowing'' the immorality of your actions and still going ahead with them.
* ThisTroper just finished watching both series, completely spoiled for the ending and entirely without being in fandom, and found ''both'' Lelouch and Suzaku (and most of the other main characters, honestly) to be sympathetic, rather tragic characters with noble aims (and some not-so-noble motives they deceive themselves about) who did some really horrible things to get results, and a tendency to get really irrational when it comes to people they love. And in the end they both acknowledged their and each others flaws and were willing to put aside their differences and personal issues to both achieve their aims and accept the punishment for their actions. Yeah, totally NotSoDifferent. But what do I know, I'm just someone who loves both characters...
** ThisTroper fully agrees... both characters are interesting in their own ways, and neither of them falls into Scrappyness at any point. ThisTroper does have a slight Lelouch bias, mostly because at least he accepts his dickishness, instead of trying to hide it with
self-righteousness, but i never found myself hating Suzaku...
*** This troper would like to applaud you for summarizing my feelings about the show so well. The Code Geass characters are just that much more human for their acts of ''both'' shame and honor. And that makes almost all of them worthy of respect at some point in the show. In the end, most of them want the same ends, but it's just TruthInTelevision that they disagree about the means.
*** Amen to that!
** This troper agrees as well. I see both Lelouch and Suzaku...most of the cast actualy, not not fit into the cookie cutters of evil nor pure. Neither are satanic, psychotic serial killers, but neither are gonna be Pope any time soon. Shouldn't this be what makes the cast INTERESTING? the fact that good and evil can be seen in almost everyone? That you really don't know by the end who to root for?
* Why is it imperative to pick one or the other? This troper thinks they're ''both'' completely nuts.
* Did anyone else notice that just about everyone in the whole series (save for the cops Lelouch sicced on Mao) has the ''exact same pistol''? Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C., Mao... they all have the same gray and black Heckler and Koch USP/SOCOM pistol (keep in mind, I only use that name because said gun happens to resemble the one from the series) with the glowy laser sight. Granted, it's a cool gun, but a little variety wouldn't hurt.
** Probably standard military issue. Or military surplus. And it's the coolest gun ever.
*** No... the JLF had Nambu-like pistols...
*** Oh... well, thank you, then. It was hard to notice, seeing as just about every JLF member whose name was not Tohdoh was barely onscreen for more than a second or two.
* How the hell did Rollo survive the FREIA explosion? If he was "covering Nunnaly's shuttle" like Main/ThatOtherWiki says or planned to kill her like my intuition says, either way he would have been well within the blast radius. Even Zero barely managed to Main/OutrunTheFireball in his prototype mech, so how did Rolo do that in his lousy stolen Glasgow?
** Rolo actually got warned about FREIA, remember? Also, Lelouch ''wasn't'' running. He had to be pushed out of the way by Guilford, and that was only after the explosion had nearly caught up.
*** How did Guilford survive? And why were his eyes the only things that were injured?
*** When Guilford pushed Lelouch out of the way of the blast, he himself was ''just'' at the edge of FLEIJA's range. Since the bomb acts as a black hole, all he had to do was eject before it contracted and destroyed everything engulfed in its light. There are three possible reasons he wears the glasses. 1 -- the FLEIJA blinded him, 2 -- By that point he knows Geass works through sight and wears the glasses to prevent being Geassed by Lelouch again (assuming he's not aware it works once per person), or 3 -- He realizes that he had been mistaking Lelouch for Cornelia on sight, so by wearing the glasses he avoids that entirely, allowing him to find the real princess by voice.
* Rolo should have just killed Schneizel when he arrived in Turn 19. He had a paralyzing Geass, after all.
** His priority was getting Lelouch out. It's not clear if he even ''noticed'' Schneizel was there.
*** He didn't have to have noticed Schniezel was there. He should have noticed the [=BKs=], and that should have been enough for him to Geass everybody in the area, including Schniezel and Kanon. After all, the [=BKs=] only ''fired the bullets he kept from hitting Lelouch''. And killing Schniezel while he had his senses stopped by the Geass so that he couldn't speak or anything would have shut down the ability of the mutiny to threaten either him or Lelouch, since he'd have a far easier time sneaking Lelouch out if needed. Really, the scene made the PlotArmor of both Schniezel and the [=BKs=] crystal clear at that point, because Rolo ''killed [[WhatMeasureIsAMook random soldiers]]'' during the escape so that he could evacuate Lelouch. The BKs would have been random soldiers to him, since it's Lelouch he's attached to, not them.
* FREIA wasn't a nuclear bomb, right? I've never seen a nuclear blast cut the surroundings so neatly apart. It looks almost like the matter (even the air) within the blast radius were gone. If it was converted to pure energy, I wonder how Earth lithosphere survived it (E = m* c* c)? If it is just "gone" to some other place, where to? And did Nunnaly survive that, after all?
** It has "space transfer" in its description. Might be it obliterates everything within a set radius, then teleports them elsewhere.
** It's described to be with fission and Sakuradite (which has also been shown to be a very volatile explosive). Perhaps the compound effect of the two caused something similar to antimatter annihilation?
*** Annihilation is not the same thing as explosion, fission, or implosion. The closest analogy to annihilation is "cancels out"
** Antimatter matter reactions, theoretically, produce massive amounts of energy, producing a violent explosion, producing the typical blast radius you get from a big ol' explosion not a cleanly carved SphereOfDestruction.
** This troper believes that "Space Transfer" only means that, after the [[SphereOfDestruction Sessrumnir Sphere]] had subsided, there is vacuum, and space transfer is simply air's inrush to fill the vacuum.
** How the hell did it cause 20+ million secondary deaths, anyhow? By all appearances, everything in the blast radius is vaporized; everything outside is basically fine (the knightmare frames hovering just a few meters outside the blast get hit with some turbulence, but are otherwise fine along with their pilots).
*** ThisTroper remembers seeing a sort of "reverse shockwave", at least during the first test, when air was rushing back into the vacuum left by the bomb. That's pretty much the only explanation i can find, since no one seems particularly concerned with radiation after the explosion.
** Yeah, the whole "20+ million" casualties thing kinda confused me, too. It might make sense, though, considering the fact that Tokyo, circa 2018, should be ''much'' more densely populated than either Nagasaki or Hiroshima (the only cities that have ever been nuked in real life) in 1945, not to mention the fact that it was probably packed with thousands of soldiers at the time. As for the Knightmares right outside the Sessrumnir Sphere that were completely untouched... uh, beats me.
*** The "primary casualties" and "secondary casualties" refer specifically to the number of Britannians and the number of Elevens that died in the blast. There were obviously no wounded and no effects outside the sphere. Remember that, while the settlement is a place for Britannians to live, many Elevens work there under slave-like conditions. The population density of the Tokyo settlement is likely as high as it is because Elevens have been forcefully relocated there to serve as laborers for the Britannians. Also, do remember that 2018 ATB is roughly equivalent to 1968 CE. The Britannian calendar starts when the Romans were cast out of Britain, not when Jesus was supposedly born.
*** It would also interrupt electricity(so anybody on oxygen is screwed, anyone on dialyses is soon to be screwed), transportation(including such important things as food, so mass starvation), government hierarchies(meaning that controlling the emergency would be extremely difficult), work distribution(it could take out a bunch of normal workers, collapsing business causing starvation, destroy particular industries, which could be lethal if it were the right ones), etc.
*** There's also the point that all Sakuradite based electronics were shut down - meaning that anyone caught inside the war zone had to get out on foot. And though the calendar is fifty years earlier, technology and population is around modern levels, and modern Tokyo is one of the most populated cities in the world. If they used the numbers for that, then 20 million deaths is high... but not outrageous.
* Why hasn't Lelouch simply told Jeremiah to cancel the "live" geass on Suzaku, or for that matter, why hasn't Suzaku asked him to do it?
** For Lelouch that would be pointless, since for all he knows Suzaku doesn't want to die anymore anyway, a misconception supported by what Lelouch thought was a second betrayal in 17. Suzaku on the other hand doesn't know about Jeremiah's geass canceller, and it's not like anyone would have any reason to tell him about it.
*** On top of that wouldn't the 'live' geass activate and prevent Suzaku from asking for it to be removed?
*** Not unless he intended to knife himself then and there. It only activates in response to immediate danger which Suzaku actively wants to kill him.
* What is wrong with the main characters of the show following the FLEIJA incident? Let's see, tens of millions of people have been killed and none of the Black Knights seem to be very affected, Schneizel certainly has no change in demeanor, and while both Lelouch and Suzaku have crazy moments, they quickly return to sanity. More importantly, wouldn't you expect massive public reaction calling for the head of whoever deployed and/or built such a weapon?
** Lelouch tried to seal himself for eternity with his father, Suzaku tried to kill the Emperor and become the most powerful Knight in Britannia, Nina stood around ground Zero for at least an entire day, The Order decided to enter negotiations with the people who had oppressed and killed them,and everyone else was just trying to bury what remained of the dead. I'd hardly call any of the principle characters reactions normal, and in fact the general public reaction was quite a bit like episode 12 of the first season. As for Schniezel, he was counting on FLEIJA being used from the start, no surprise he wasn't affected by it.
** I have to echo the last line. The near lack of any attention to such a flagrant screw up on the part of the military is just annoying. Suzaku nukes Tokyo, killing tens of millions of Britannians and the head of government in the area, and there is not a single drop of public outcry for even the smallest bit of justice. It'd be like a bomber in the real world accidentally hitting the wrong city in the middle of a war and not being punished because the enemy gave up. At least there'd be an investigation of some sort to see how responsible he was. My head went through the wall once Schneizel blamed Guilford and said he was a hero, followed by Suzaku acting like he should be rewarded for it. Even Gino, who was at least appaled by the devastation, acts like Suzaku is not the least bit responsible for what happened. What is wrong with these people?
*** Do remember that Nina was in hiding, fearing such a thing to happen. But how bad was the reaction when the original atomic bomb was used? Did Japan demand the death of those involved? Was there massive public outcry banning it? The reason we don't use nuclear bombs like that today is because we know that everyone has the technology, and will retaliate by nature, and we could very well wipe out humanity if we don't hold back. It's not considered "evil" by most, just incredibly dangerous and a really bad idea.
** Lelouch was never again fully sane following the betrayal, having jumped the DespairEventHorizon.
* Sort of a related question, how is it that in episode 20, Lelouch is able to go so quickly from a near catatonic state to his usual scheming self. To some extent, I understand that his behavior in front of the Black Knights was done to keep any of them (especially Kallen) from supporting him and then being killed by the others, but still, what a rapid change in mood, and this isn't the first time he has acted this way.
** He pulled it together to do what he had to, it's not like it's the first time he's done ''that''.
*** Not really, he simply was too shocked to and was actually saying his FacingTheBulletsOneLiner. He intended to die now that the jig is up, and since Nunnally [[spoiler: (apparently) died]], he had nothing else left to live for. Rolo coming in was unpredictable, and that's why he was so touched by his sacrifice considering his treatment of Rolo as a ReplacementScrappy.
* Lelouch apparently runs REALLY damn slow. The Euphinator beats him with time to spare to the stage in a gown. Also, why didn't Lelouch try any sort of trickery to convince Euphie not to kill all the Japanese, like: "you haven't officially commemorated the SAR, so everyone out there's an Eleven. How silly of me to give you a useless task."
** Did you ''watch'' the episode? He was restrained by her bodyguards before he could do anything. Anyway, that wouldn't have worked, because Euphy still ''thought'' they were all Japanese. It's her thing.
*** He was stopped after she had got onto the stage and tried for 30 or so seconds to non-violently get the Japanese to kill themselves, only then did Lelouch get stopped by guards. Even accounting for the need for him to put the mask back on, there's no way he could be beaten by someone '''in a gown'' by that large a margin. And while I doubt anything could've stopped Euphie, I was sorely disappointed that Lelouch's best effort was "Wait, Euphie!" after it was clear he couldn't issue any more geass binding orders.
*** ''R2'' episode 5. Lelouch gets outrun by Suzaku, Shirley, Kallen ''in a giant mascot costume'' and Milly. When it comes to physical endurance, Lelouch is pathetically weak.
*** To be perfectly honest, this troper thought that joke was tossed in as an attempt at justification for how friggin' slow he was in the Massacre Princess scene when the episode first aired. Still hilarious, but in a rather sad way.
*** No, in the episode where Lelouch and Suzaku are chasing after Arthur, the cat which had accidentally slipped on Zero's mask and run away, it's well established that Lelouch has very crappy stamina in that he is quickly winded while running up a flight of stairs while Suzaku passes him up. This was way before the Massacre Princess incident.
* Why do people think it was so horrible and bitchy for Kallen to [[spoiler: go and kiss Lelouch]] in R2 episode 22? Come ON, an ActionGirl has ''right'' to have a more sensitive side, so [[spoiler: smooching him]] does NOT make her automatically less BadAss.
** They want [[DieForOurShip C.C. x Lelouch]].
*** Not the ones I saw; they just seemed to be bitter [[UnpleasableFanbase for the sake of being bitter]].
*** Seems a mixture of both. Apparently, [[YouSayGirlLikeABadThing a badass action girl must reject the "useless" girly feelings]] and is morally obligated to [[FanPreferredCouple just leave her love interest into a "more deserving girl"'s care]]. LOL, NO.
** Perhaps it's because Kallen ended up turning into a total moron after Lelouch rejected her. Really, she briefly fights C.C. (who's been helping Lelouch since the beginning) and her only question to C.C. is "So, do you love Lelouch?" What did love have to do with anything, and why couldn't she figure out what Lelouch was up to? It'd be more believable if she was honestly torn between 'being loyal to her country' and 'being loyal to Lelouch', but somehow unrequited feelings overshadowed the part where he saved her from getting gunned down by her colleagues. Yeap. Real smart, Kallen.
** Huh? Kallen was the person with the clearest morals from beginning to end. She opposed Britannia, whatever that entailed, for the entirety of the show. She was opposed to Lelouch because he had apparently decided to rule Britannia and continue its evil (with her not knowing about the whole "Zero Requiem" thingamajig), which was a problem for her because she was honestly in love with the guy. And she was fairly close with C.C. during that year between seasons 1 and 2, so she probably wanted to know why exactly C.C. was siding with him. But I'm honestly confused by what you're asking here. The middle of combat, especially when Lelouch was getting away, was not a good time for a heart-to-heart discussion.
*** Blame the bad writing level of the last arc for failing to bring across Kallen's conflict properly. and the fact that she opposes him right after he seemingly rejects her, without stressing her reasons properly, give some people the (clearly wrong) impression that she is [[{{WomanScorned}} trying to kill him BECAUSE he rejected her]], instead of making it properly clear that she is opposing him becouse he started acting (from her, [[{{LockedOutOfTheLoop}} un-informed]], point of view) like a CompleteMonster, and has effectively betrayed everything they ever fought for, and became everything she ever fought against (he takes over Brittania, joins Suzaku, conquers Japan, etc).
*** And her inability to figure out what lelouch is up to stems from the fact that 1)no one would ever believe that Lelouch would try to take over the ENTIRE WORLD as step one of a plan. 2)Lelouch had given her absolutly no reason to believe in him at that point, and she gave him a chance to explain himself before the mess started, and 3)in order to understand lelouch's actions kallen would also have had to make the rather arrogant (albit, completely accurate, as it turns out) assumption that while lelouch is facing the greatest challenge of his life and having to take on the entire world in battle, he nevertheless pushed her (his LONG TIME BODY GUARD) away, rather then let her help becouse he wants to protect her. so kallen sitting on the sidelines and simply watching an evil tyrent conquer the entire world, clinging to the faint hope that he MIGHT mean well, just becouse she has feelings for the guy, was hardly an option.
** This troper was personally irritated by that scene for second reasons: number one, it felt like Kallen's feelings for Lelouch weren't thoroughly thought it; sort of tacked on as an afterthought. Her feelings toward Lelouch up to that point had always seemed to me to look more like hero worship than an out-and-out BodyguardCrush, and the ramp up to full-on romantic attraction seemed like too sudden a change in character. Second, Kallen is pretty much the only person in the show who was wholly and consistently ''good'' from start to finish, and seeing her get all sappy over someone like Lelouch (who, truthfully, [[WellIntentionedExtremist noble]] [[NecessarilyEvil motivation]] aside, struck me as a real monster, especially in R2) was just heartbreaking. I didn't want to see Kallen get corrupted, and that seemed like a real possibility there. My own [[PerverseSexualLust more personal feelings for Kallen]] [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial certainly had nothing to do with it, I assure you...]]
*** The scene in China where they fall on each other in a very romantic moment (until C.C. reminded them that she was still in the room), says otherwise. The deredere of her hero worship towards Zero + the tsuntsun of her frustration with Lelouche seemed to meet in the middle and became romantic love.
** It just bugs this troper that Kallen is considered completely good. Yes, Britannia is the EvilEmpire and has alot of douchebags in it, but her whole Japanese pride and "this is why I hate Brittanians!" shtick made her seem no better than Nina in terms of prejudice at times, particularly in episode 19 of the first season, where she was bitchy toward Suzaku while he was being perfectly civil toward her, and insulted Euphemia, who committed ''no'' crime other than being a Brittanian princess and thus, to Kallen, was evil by default.
*** She was bitchy toward Suzaku because of the "betraying his country" thing. Civil or no, she was his prisoner and that makes her entitled to being uncooperative, especially with him. Her whole "this is why I hate Britannians" shtick was not as bad as Nina because she kept it in check. She wasn't killing civilians for the hell of it, not did she consider them all irredeemably evil like Nina did. Finally, for the Euphemia example, she called her a doll princess. She didn't consider her evil, just a useless figurehead who really had no place trying to dictate any terms given the situation.\\
Kallen is considered completely good, or at the very least nowhere near as bad as half of the people in this show, because she dedicates herself to a just cause and sticks to it. Even when Lelouch went bad she stuck to it. Really, name one time in this show where Kallen, intentionally, has done something that can unequivocabally be considered evil, and you'll see why she's considered good.
*** Well, for one thing, she was a terrorist in a cell that had no particular talent or skills. IIRC, she even admitted that before Zero came along, they were just lashing out at as many Britannians as they could, without an over-arching plan and one of the facets of Kallen's worship of Zero was that he made her something other than a murderer.
*** True, but comapre this to Suzaku, who's doing pretty much the same thing as a death wish only to ''his own people''. Kallen at least has the good sense to pick the right enemy.
** Kallen is a JerkSue BloodKnight that only liked fighting and shows no remorse about killing, she gave Japanese independence as her reason to fight but it was established during her DayInTheLimelight episode that she really douse not like them either because they are week especially her mother(even though she douse gain some sympathy for her). She would literally stab her friends in the back without a second thought if they try and stop her.
*** The only people she shows no remorse for killing are the vicious rank and file Britannian soldiers. And again, she does not see the Japanese as weak or try to kill her friends.
* ... How exactly does nuking every capital city off the face of the Earth make one God?
** Well, if you're floating around in a giant sky fortress that can nuke any single spot on the planet, and what few people remain are starving in huts, I guess that makes you kind of a god. It looks like Schneizel's going for the "Well, he'll rule all the ground at least" method of world domination.
** It's quite simple really: what is a god? It's one who decides who lives and who dies. In Schneizel's mind, the only way to create peace is to take away the choice to kill from everyone else. By creating a monopoly on violence with Freya and thus becoming a god, he'll be able to give people the peace they desire. Of course he's completely bonkers, since he more or less sees humans and everything else for that matter as mere chess pieces, so he's literally unable to take into account that human emotion and thought might be a kink in his so-called perfect plan.
*** Hmm... so, as far as he's concerned, the UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans, correct? Not that ''that'' ever goes too well, of course...
*** Seemed to work for Lelouch, didn't it? His plan definitely had a lot of UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans in it, though not exactly in the more commonly recognized totalitarian form.
** It's pretty much based off of the dialog; Cornelia says that Schneizel's plan to punish all of humanity into acting properly is something only God should be able to do, and Schneizel, it his usual ambitionless fashion, decides to take that idea and run it to the endzone for a touchdown.
** I think that it stems from the fact that asian cultures don't necessarily view gods in quite the same way as western cultures do and the show was made by those from an asian culture. In the West, where religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are big, we tend to view God as an all-powerful being who created the world. We also tend to think of God in the singular. In eastern culture, you have people talking about ancestors being gods, the emperors of some countries have been considered gods, and - as Lloyd points out in episode 2 of R1 - asian cultures sometimes believe that gods live in objects (such as [[{{Kannagi}} trees]]). I get the impression that the term god when used by asian cultures has a tendency to mean something more along the lines of a being superior to humans than an all-powerful being like those in the West think of. That being the case, Schneizel would be claiming to be a more powerful being than humans as opposed to all-powerful - and with the ability to basically wipe most of them out, that's arguably true.
** Schneizel was speaking metaphorically; he would have become God in the same sense that [[DeathNote Light Yagami]] would 'become the God of the new world!'
* How in the hell is [[spoiler: Guilford]] still alive? That is all.
** AssPull.
** I think you mean IGotBetter. On the other hand, The moments before the conversation with Rolo at the end of turn 18 established that Lelouch's Knightmare lost communication with all other units during the Freya explosion; [[spoiler:Having Guilford's transmission suddenly cut was not him dying, but in truth nothing more than a sleight of hand to distract us from the fact that we never actually saw his Vincent's cockpit consumed by the blast. Freya simply disrupted communications at that very moment, and Guilford simply lost the legs of his Vincent and presumably was blinded by an explosion in his cockpit as well, at which point he fell to the ground, proceeded to get medical attention, and finally made his way to Cornelia a month later.]]
*** Actually, I think that [[spoiler: Guliford blinded ''himself'' so that the geass Lelouch put on him wouldn't pose a threat anymore]].
*** I like that explanation. Though it doesn't explain how he would've found out about being Geassed.
** Just make it clear, he isn't blind, he just traded his Main/StoicSpectacles for stoic Main/CoolShades (probably, to protect himself from Geass): in the last episode, he looks darn well sighted, running around with an assault rifle like no man who's only been blind for three months ever could.
*** If he isn't blind, why does he have the cane? It looks exactly like a standard "I'm blind and so I swing this around to help me find my way" cane.
*** Possibly he was just near-blind ''at the time''. Two months pass between the battle of Damocles and the culmination of the Zero Requiem. Maybe his vision is restored during that time.
*** More likely, he was highly light-sensitive. If he was outright blind then he wouldn't have a gun.
* Why the hell did Lelouch go through that much of a lopsided way to Geass Schneizel? He went to the hangar, Geassed the guards, went to the control room, pre-recorded himself, then went back to the hangar to Geass Schneizel. Why couldn't Lelouch just bloody wait INSIDE the plane and Geass Schneizel as he came in? And, for that matter, how did he run all that much when he couldn't even catch up to Milly Ashford in ep5 of season two?
** The same reason he Geassed soldiers to hold other soldiers to be Geassed when he was going into the World of C to meet Charles. Style points.
** See, I always took him Geassing soldiers to hold other people's eyes open not as style points, but because maybe it would have taken him more than one room to get to the important soldiers he would have to Geass, and he could only get to a few at a time anyway. Say, Room A and Room B. Room A has two soldiers that don't do anything important, but have clearance to Room B which probably won't let just ''anyone'' in (plus possible surveillance). Lelouch Geasses the first two guys with a command like "open the door to Room B and when you get in, hold your colleagues' eyes open".
*** No, the command was just "Serve Me". THEN he commanded them to gather and restrain their comrades so he could control everyone.
* Alright, so what the fuck is the state of the world now that the series is over? I can't see Suzaku or Nunnaly taking over the government of Britannia, which means that it mostly broke down (If this isn't the case, I have another problem with it). And then they expect us to believe that everything's hunky-dory? Nuh-uh. I don't think so. You don't just dissolve the autocratic dictatorship of the ''entire fucking world'' and expect that things are going to go smoothly. The war and chaos that would erupt as groups grapple for power would ''boggle the mind.'' We're just lucky that all the FREYAs were destroyed and no one built nukes, or else my money would be on the world being destroyed. You create a vacuum of power lie Lulu did, and people are going to try to fill it. Unfortunately, a lot of different people who don't like each other will try, and that leads to an awful lot of violence, to put it lightly. If someone does take over the reins of Britannia...well, you've still got a global dictatorship, which means that all Lulu did was to advance Britannia's cause. If they're going to try and move it towards a democracy, then one generally doesn't need ''global war'' to be able to accomplish such a feat, and...argh, watching this show as an International Relations major is ''hard.''
** BellisariosMaxim all the way.
** That might work if politics wasn't so damn integral to the show. Lord knows the giant robot fighting got the back burner as the show went on. But getting that major of an aspect wrong is something I can't just ignore.
*** Lelouch spent much of the first half of season 2 setting up an alternative power structure, the United Federation of Nations, which he left in place after the final battle, and probably strengthened during the two months between it and his assassination. I think the problem is that the last five or so episodes are all very rushed, with a couple of month or two long timeskips that could do with being expanded on.
*** This. With heavy emphasis. I figured that Lelouch sarcastically acquiesced to Kaguya's demand that he split Brittania up into individual voting "states" once he has control of the Damocles. This was the only barrier that the UFN put up before Brittania could be allowed to join, and once he has the FLEIJAs, it's not like he's going to have any trouble getting the votes he needs anyway, not when anyone who would try to vote against him would be running the risk of getting nuked off the face of the planet. At the end of the series he is declared, as I recall, to be President of the UFN and CEO of the Black Knights. If he sucked most of Britannia's power into the UFN, then that means that the Brittanian military and the Black Knights are more or less the same thing, and are controlled by whoever has the most votes in the UFN- and whoever has the most votes in the UN will require the support of a great many different ethnic groups, since presumably every country in the world is now a member. And nobody's in the mood for more oppressive asshattery after what Emperor Lelouch did. If he ordered all his soldiers to be members of the Black Knights, well, they're geassed, so that's what they'll do even if the CEO isn't the Emperor of Brittania. Even if that fails the only heirs apparent to the Brittanian throne would be Nunnally, Schneizel, and Cornelia, since they made the heroic LastStand against Lelouch and at least two out of the three of them are going to try and preserve peace at all cost. This is the whole reason why Lelouch made such a big deal about taking over the UFN instead of destroying it. The UFN's charter is presumably designed in such a way that there's no way to mobilize a military force against anyone except an extremely evil common enemy. The only reason it was bad under Emperor Lelouch is because he was blackmailing everyone into voting to do whatever he wanted. By giving the individual countries free will, his death created an insurmountable bureaucratic deadlock.
*** By comparison, in NightmareOfNunnally, [[spoiler:Euphemia]] takes the throne and gives the numbered areas their freedom. There is a considerable amount of transition, and Britannia has to deal with being the object of the world's hatred, but it's a more sensible alternative to this.
* Why does everyone say Lelouch was alive? This sounds a bit wanky, but I personally believe Lelouch has been a big enough douche to deserve death at this point. And anyway, he was stabbed throught the chest ''with a fucking sword'', and Nunnally watched him die. Just because CC mentioned him afterwards, it doesn't mean he's alive. She talked to Marianne loads in the series, and I know that she was possessing Anya but Anya wasn't even in those places. So Lelouch is totally dead.Ok, wank over now.
** Well of course, they inserted C.C. saying "right, Lelouch?" as the last line, so that at least puts his death in question, especially given her record of speaking to herself in fact being her talking to others in season 1. (Marianne, Charles, and V.V. at different points) Then going back and looking over the last few scenes, there's a number of oddities:
*** directly before that they purposefully obscure the face of the cart driver (why?)
*** Jeremiah doesn't cry at all when Suzaku goes to kill Lelouch, despite how emotional he had become in turn 13 upon finding out Lelouch was worthy to be his lord.
*** Jeremiah was warned of the plan far enough in advance that he was prepared for it. His line after Zero beats him even indicates he knew as much.
*** Nunnally apparently sees part of Lelouch's memories when she touches him, and the only other time something like that has happened was when Lelouch touched C.C. back in Stage 11.
*** Nunnally was blind and was therefore very adept at reading people just by touching them. Plus she knew her brother better than anyone else.
*** Then there's also some oddities over how Charles hand with the code on it started to disappear before the rest of his body after he grabs Lelouch (and instead from the tip to the shoulder started disappearing from side to side), and how we never actually see the code after he grabs Lelouch (since his arm is gone by that part)
*** Further they showed both Charles and C.C. gaining their codes by being killed, (C.C. gets stabbed, giving her that scar, Charles shoots himself in the head) so an explanation exists for how Lelouch could still use his geass even after he was set to become a code bearer: he'd never died before.
** Anyway, basically it's entirely open to personal interpretation, and I'd say that's the way the writers wanted it to be. If you want to say that Lelouch as dead, then you can write off all these oddities as unimportant. If you want to say Lelouch is alive, you can say these are proof that Lelouch is in fact quite alive thanks to the V.V. code.
** I don't subscribe to the thought that Nunnally saw any of Lelouch's memories when she touched him. The girl can read lies by holding peoples' hands, and it isn't beyond belief that she would have been able to feel something like Lelouch's relief at his own death. She's a smart girl. There's also that, before she realized and started crying, the only scene shown was the soundless image of the L+ S scene they'd just shown a minute ago, easily markable as showing the audience that she jumped up to speed. Anyways, just dropping those thoughts.
*** Same troper as above. http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/10/code-geass-r2-another-nail-in-lelouchs-coffin/ 'Reading hearts' seems a little more fancy than intimating biometrics from touch.
** As a note, I think it would be accurate to say Lelouch certainly died at least once- he clearly closed his eyes as his life flashed before him- does anyone know what the indication was how long it would take C.C. to come back to life? I mean, when Cornelia shoots V.V. in the head he recovers in a second.
*** Charles lay around dead for 5-odd minutes after he shot himself in the head in turn 15, C.C. lay around for over 10 minutes in stage 1 after being killed. Both times Lelouch checked the bodies and determined they were "dead" and not just faking it. So the possibility of a code bearer remaining dead for an extended period of time (say, long enough for Jeremiah to grab the body while escaping) exists, especially given being stabbed through the chest with a giant sword (lungs and heart are both going to be massively screwed up by a hit like that) is probably a lot more damaging than taking a knife a few inches into your skull.
** Well, the basic theory is that Lelouch took his father's Code when the emperor died but that a Code doesn't activate until the person who has it dies for the first time, so he's been running around with his Geass active and a dormant Code. His death by Suzaku's hands then activated the Code and he came back to life just like C.C. has done time and time again. The theory is arguably supported by how the emperor shot himself per Lelouch's order and ''then'' was fine - possibly meaning that he was Geassed into killing himself and then the Code activated, bringing him back to life (though, naturally, the other - more likely - option is that he shot himself to trick Lelouch as opposed to actually being Geassed - we don't see the typical Geass brain lines after all).
** However, regardless of what theories may be out there, '''Lelouch is officially dead.''' Unfortunately, I don't know of any actual articles online that state it explicitly, but it's been quoted in various places. The [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelouch_Lamperouge wikipedia article for Lelouch]] cites a magazine article where the head writer confirmed Lelouch's death. So, as cool as it might be if he survived and was running around with C.C., it's not true. [[WordOfGod He's dead]].
*** ''Who'' is dead? Lelouch Lamperouge? Lelouch Vi Britannia? Zero? They're all personas. The idea that we all wear masks is a major part of the show. The fact that all the masks that the person we knew as Lelouch used are gone, doesn't mean that he is. This troper has seen too many writers/producers give deeply ambiguous answers to trust [[WordOfGod]] ''ever again''.
*** Yeah, even saying, outright, "Lelouch li Brittania is dead" is surprisingly unhelpful in this context. As far as C.C. is concerned, her pathetic peasant girl persona is probably dead, too. If Lelouch is still alive, there's no doubt that he's giving himself a wacky code name like [[WildMassGuessing R2]] or something.
** One thing that seemed ambiguous to me watching the English dub is that in part of the post-assassination voice-over it's mentioned that problems still happen in the world, but that Lelouch got blamed for them. Maybe this was supposed to be about pre-existing problems, but the line was delivered in such a way that it sounded like a lot of people were convinced, in-universe, that Lelouch is [[HesJustHiding just hiding]] because they NeverFoundTheBody. Don't know what this line was in the original Japanese was, though. Anybody know?
** This troper thought that it would make more sense for Lelouch to survive. Death isn't exactly a penance for all that you've done but life would be. He'd be forced to live every day knowing he'd killed millions of people and could never interact with any of his friends or loved ones again. He would life full of knowledge that the entire world would always hate Lelouch vi Brittania.
* I waited until the series ended before bring this up, but really, Charles di Britannia and his XanatosGambit wanted me to stop watching the series right there. Both the revelation of it, and what happened after wards. Apparently, [[spoiler:he had everything planned out from episode one? Not to mention the Asspull from the dead mom or TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt plan. I would actually call it a XanatosRoulette, but it didn't work, which made it somewhat more believable.]] At least it ended better...
** What are you talking about? He didn't have ''anything'' planned out from the first episode. Lelouch's actions ''didn't really matter to him''. He was completely aware of what his son was up to, but he ''did not care'', besides his efforts to convince C.C. to join up with him via Marianne.
*** I remember him saying something with C.C. meeting Lelouch was part of his plan, in some way. I might be mistaken the, but regardless, the entire [[spoiler: TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt plan, and him going out like that seemed Anticlimax.]].......
*** You're wrong, considering that Lelouch clearly did nothing to help his plan and did stop it. Maybe he's talking about getting C.C. out of that capsule in the first episode, but that was really just a coincidence.
*** If you rewatch the very first scene of the very first episode... you'll see that C.C. was watching over Lelouch from the beginning. Where Lelouch is, C.C. will be. It's that simple. By R2, just dangling Lelouch around was good enough to attract C.C. The whole thing with the plan failing and Marianne having to retrieve C.C.... not anticipated, but not a huge problem.
* I know it seems hypocritical to say this given that I find Lelouch sympathetic and he is certainly no saint; but I was a bit bothered by Jeremiah's HeelFaceTurn and by the idea of Cornelia ending up as one of the good guys. When introduced in the first season, Jeremiah was shown as a nasty thug who massacred Japanese civilians with clear enjoyment. I get the idea that discovering that the Emperor had a role in Marianne's death rather than Japanese terrorists would take away his reason for hatred and all of the experimentation on him definitely mellowed him, but still... As for Cornelia, while she was shown as the kind of leader who would be just enough if only for pragmatic reasons (she wants to stop Japanese from being addicted to Refrain not because she cares but because it makes them inefficient workers), she wasn't really that nice of a person either. As a general comment, as has been noted by others, it seems like the show forgot at some point that Britannia is a brutal and racist empire and to varying extents, its citizens share these attitudes.
** Given that the last bit is kind of racist, I don't mind. Its not like their is such a thing as an evil country. Also Britannia was shown as having some good people (Several of the Ashford students, Prince Schneizel was implied to be a good person trying to put down a rebellion (look at his response to Euphemia's massacre), Lloyd, and Cecile). While I wish Cornelia's change was given more screentime its one of the few things I don't complain about Season 2.
*** What do you mean by "Given that the last bit is kind of racist"? I certainly agree that most of the people at Ashford Academy seemed nice enough, but still had the general impression that understandably, people's behavior and politics would be shaped by the official policy which ''was'' racist and SocialDarwinist. Maybe a good real-world comparison would be South Africa or any country that had or has something like apartheid. Their citizens aren't AlwaysChaoticEvil, but it is likely that there will be a lot of otherwise nice people with some nasty prejudices.
** Jeremiah (IIRC) never specifically blamed the Japanese for Marianne's death and he doesn't really enjoy killing them -- although he certainly thinks little of them, and was after all a member of the Purist faction at the start of the show, i.e. only (non-Honorary) Britannians in the army. His loyalty to the royal family takes precedence over all else, however.
** Actually the reason why Jeremiah hated the Japanese (and Suzaku in particular) was because he blamed them for the deaths of Prince Lelouch and Princess Nunnally and he was trying to avenge them, if only he knew.
** Nothing unusual about the Cornelia part. Not in the least. Episode 7 alone is a good case study. Lelouch gets plenty of legitimate motivation, from the FlashbackNightmare to when his father [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech chewed him out and had him exiled for]] daring to [[CallingTheOldManOut call him out for his apathy towards Nunnally's and Marianne's fates]], to the present day [[CatapultNightmare when he wakes up from it as a dream]], followed by him declaring that he will eliminate the Social Darwinistic Britannian Empire. (Not to mention Shirley's personal flashback where she saw Lelouch help an old couple out but not call attention to himself.) Cornelia, meanwhile, in a display of her own racism and senselessness, has a civilian ghetto razed in order to lure out Zero. She never redeems herself of any of this, and only suffers in that she gets badly wounded twice and loses her sister, but nonetheless lives on arguably happily ever after by show's end even though Lelouch consigns himself to death.
* I just realized how many {{Contrived Coincidence}}es there are in the first episode. The prince who happens to be hiding in Japan that has a huge hate of Britannia meets his best friend from childhood, and releases a MagicalGirl who is willing to give him superpowers, which is just what he needs to launch his scheme to destroy Britannia. The writers might as well kill the Emperor by hitting him with a bolt of lightning.
** Or better yet, have [[spoiler:God eat his soul]].
*** Well, it could have been done another way, but they wouldn't have been able to introduce all the main characters in one episode. Like how Gundam Seed has Kira finding the Strike but Athrun is there, too? Huge coincidence. It happens a LOT in anime. It's just easier and simpler that way.
* In Episode 23 of Season 1, why does Lelouch insist on personally shooting Euphemia out in the open? I mean, if he had just let Kallen fry her Gloucester with the radiant wave surger like she wanted, Suzaku would've had no reason to target Lelouch himself later; he'd probably assume she was just killed in the crossfire and focus his hatred on Kallen or the Black Knights in general instead. My guess is that he wanted to correct his mistake in person, but honour aside, it just seemed like he was drawing way more fire toward himself than was necessary.
** Guilt seems to be the main reason. While he quickly managed to turn this mistake into an advantage, he was still horrified of what had happened, even crying when he decided to kill her. And for the "drawing attention to himself": First, he didn't know that Suzaku was watching. Second, at this point Suzaku neither knew about Zero being Lelouch, nor about Geass. So it really made no difference if he hated the Black Knights as a whole, or their leader Zero in particular.
*** Actually, now that I think about it, Suzaku would've gone after Lelouch regardless of whether he saw him shoot Euphie or not because of V.V.'s interference. Even if Kallen killed her and Suzaku didn't find out about it until later, the fact is that V.V. specifically told him about ''Zero'', so there was really no one else he could have gone after. So much for that...
** Yeah, it's pride. It's stupid of Lelouch, who is a capable, but not Rounds-level pilot like Suzaku and Kallen, to lead his army as one of them, but he does it because of his pride, which is like Cornelia's. It's Lelouch fault that he made Euphemia into a monster, so he'll stop it with his own hands.
* One thing that has always bugged me...Oghi's jacket. Why does it have this on it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge
** The show has several [[ShoutOut shout outs]] to WW2, this is likely another one of them, he is after all part of a persecuted minority.
** Also it has some historical plausibility, a Japanese Diplomat assisted a good number of Jews in escaping the Holocaust by giving them passage into Japan. As a result there is a very small Jewish population in Japan today. Assuming something similar to the Holocaust happened in the Geassverse history, then Ohgi could be the descendant of a Jewish immigrant. That would also explain his curly hair, a common trait for Semitic populations as it served to retain moisture in the Middle Eastern region.
*** Oghi as a jew? Considering he's become a major Scrappy, that just runs full of UnfortunateImplications...
* Is it just me, or does Lelouch's checkmate over Schneizel seem like a complete asspull moment to anyone else? Yes, he managed to trick Mao with the recorded replies thing, but Mao was an idiot. Lelouch knew how to play on his insecurities, namely talking about how C.C. likes him more, so he could predict a general response. He never needed to be specific in anything he said, just manipulate his emotions, which is easy. That's completely different from Schneizel's defeat. Lelouch predicted his exact wording, exactly how long Schneizel would be speaking, and ridiculously accurate responses to all of it. At one point, he even predicted the moment Schneizel would ''interrupt'' him. This is where Lelouch went from brilliant to omniscient for me and I feel a little cheated that the only bastard as magnificent as Lelouch got brought down so cheaply by a technique that could have only realistically fooled a person with a mind of a child.
** It works if you realize that at that point Schneizel was so wrapped up in his own belief that AGodAmI that he had 1) become extremely predictable and 2) even when he thought he was going to die simply didn't believe that Lelouch could outsmart him in any other way than getting to the control room ahead of him, so didn't think too much about what was going on. Schneizel had essentially forsaken his own ChessMaster routine in favor of nuking the shit out of anyone that opposed him... he let his sakuradite-powered brawn do his thinking for him, while Lelouch was still playing head games more than anything else.
** However, it's not just that he became predictable. Lelouch somehow knew exactly what he was going to say and when he was going to say it. Compare Mao's recording to Schneizel's. In Mao's, he never converses with him. He mostly just goes on mocking him for what he never had, which he knew Mao would respond in immediate rage and nothing else. The fact that he didn't need to predict anything more than the general emotional reaction made it believable. In Schneizel's, he had the whole conversation played out. He predicted the words Schneizel would use, and even the point which he would be interrupted. I don't care how predictable Schneizel was. He was smart enough to be able to think of alternate ways to say 'strategy', which would have immediately cast suspicion after Lelouch responds with an "It wasn't strategy". What would have happened if he merely said something else such as "plan"? Or what if he just decided to affably say "Hello, Lelouch." because he was under the impression that he won anyway. That would have blown Lelouch's entire plan and that's just the opening line! He predicted the entire conversation, which is just plain ridiculous.
** Keep in mind that Lelouch had from all indications grown up with Schneizel as one of his closer siblings, the series repeatedly mentioned that they used to play chess together prior to Lelouch's dramatic life changing event. It isn't as if Lelouch is unfamiliar with the guy's mannerism's or thought processses
** I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. It's simply not enough. I can manipulate my friends into general reactions, but I can't predict the future. As I said, he had the entire conversation played out. Even the point when Schneizel interrupted him. No one is that predictable. Then, when you count in the circumstances, it's even less likely. Schneizel was about to die, and even if he didn't care about his life, he has just accomplished his life goal of bringing peace to the whole world and was essentially on his death bed, so he just MIGHT have acted a little less predictable. So, since it's just plain ridiculous to think that Lelouch could predict the entire conversation (especially the point at which he'd be interrupted), it's just absurd to think that he could predict someone as complicated as Schneizel in the time he would have most likely acted out of character. I'm sorry, but "Lelouch played him in chess, therefore he can predict his every thought" is not a satisfying explanation.
** You could always go with [[http://www.darkmirage.com/2008/09/22/code-geass-r2-episode-24/ DarkMirage's]] explanation
* I find it hard to believe that Lelouch could've predicted the content of his conversation of Schneizel down to the exact words used. Perhaps Lelouch is speaking through a microphone to a silent pre-recorded movie with advanced lip-syncing technology. Oh well.
** Or you could use this: Lelouch wasn't even predicting exactly what Schneizel would say. If you really pay attention, Lelouch is the one starting conversation. He says something about "strategy", Schneizel follows it up, and regardless of the answer, Lelouch initiates a''nother'' conversation going in another direction, but something that somehow seems related to what he was saying before. Case in point,
--> Schneizel: "And that is why you thought I would abandon Damocles?
--> Lelouch: "Schneizel, you will taste defeat this time"
--> Schneizel: "So you will kill me."
--> Lelouch: "I have a question."

** Question is asked, question gets answered, Lelouch asks another 'somehow related but still different' question. Doesn't sound like 'predicting lines' to me.
*** Then how do you account for the other instances he did predict lines. Yes, I'll concede that in that particular part is believable, but how do you explain Lelouch responding to Schneizel before he even said anything?
-->(Schneizel enters ship and Lelouch pops up on screen)
-->Schneizel: "I see. Checkmate on me, eh? How did you discern my strategy"
--> Lelouch: "It not a strategy. What I read was your personal nature."

** You could say that this was a pretty predicable thing Schneizel would say, but like I mentioned when I first made this complaint, what would have happened if Schneizel just used different wording like "So how did you predict this?" or "You firgured out my tactic?" or any of the other hundreds of way to say "How'd you do that" without using the word 'strategy'. And if he had, then Lelouch would have been caught right then. And even going by your example, after Lelouch said "I have a question" Schneizel responded with his answer, then Lelouch gave an accurate response to that answer. Lelouch continues the conversation to this point:
--> Lelouch: "I yearn for the future."
--> Schneizel: "The future may be worse"
--> Lelouch: "No, it will be better."

** Once again, Schneizel could have respondered in a number of different ways. Finally, there is this gem that breaks all willing suspension of disbelief for me.
-->(Lelouch is making his speech about how people yearn for the future)
--> Lelouch: "Geass, and masks, their origins are-"
--> Schneizel: "This is irony"

** Explain exactly how he knew he'd get interrupted here.
*** He isn't interrupted in the dub.
** As for the greeting. Lelouch could well have just decided to use strategy himself. By sheer coincidence, Schneizel did too. Saying hello could easily have been ignored by lelouch in favor of getting to the point. He has no reason to be polite. And in saying "I've been waiting for you" he said hello already. Lelouch's response was really closer to "I didn't see through your plan, I saw through you!" Even if Schneizel didn't ask, he could have still said that purely to get across that he finds schneizel predictable, just like with the "I've been waiting for you" style greeting.For the future bit, Schneizel wishes for the present. By far one of the most common responses to talking about doing something different and changing or staying the same is "it might be worse then it is now." This is especially predictable of a response for someone wishing for things to remain the same. He was getting ideological in his speech. Knowing that schneizel disagrees alone would be enough to predict that he wouldn't let him finish painting his cause as righteous. He just took a pause there. Additionally. Schneizel interrupts. Who's to say lelouch didn't still say "this" or something like that. But it was drowned out by Schneizel? Obviously schneizel was the one we, the audience, needed to hear so we did. For example, Lelouch's "present" recording drowns out lelouch's "obey Zero" order as far as we hear, but Lelouch is still talking.
*** The fact that Schneizel coincidentally used strategy as well does not negate the recklessness of it. Also, listen to the tone Lelouch uses. He definitely says it in manner that makes it sound like a condescending reply, and if he said something else, he'd have been caught. And had he said nothing, your guess that Schneizel might have simply accepted it as getting to the point is nothing more than that. A guess, and an unlikely one as far as I'm concerned. I don't know about you, but I know that I personally would have gotten suspicious if I never mentioned a strategy and suddenly he talks as if I asked him something. When talking about the future, while that may be a common reply, he could have phrased it differently, making it longer, perhaps explaining his view a bit more. That also would have exposed Lelouch. I'll concede to this one, as it really works with Schneizel's views, but I find it iffy. However, I don't buy your interruption theory for a second. If he did know to pause or that Schneizel would interrupt, how did he know at what point? And if he didn't pause and the noise was just drowned out, that's even worse, because Schneizel would see Lelouch still talking on the screen, which would make it kinda obvious something is off. No, there is no logical reasoning that Lelouch could predict where the hell Schniezel would interrupt him. He's a Magnificant Bastard, but he is not omnipotent.
*** To be honest. The response "It was not a strategy. What I read was your personal nature." isn't even normal for "how did you see through my strategy?" It doesn't answer anything in that question because it doesn't answer a how. It's obvious to all involved what schneizel was doing was a strategy so there's no point to saying it wasn't, they even had a strategy battle in the beginning of the conflict. I still maintain it would come across as meaning something like "It was not strategy I read, but your personal nature." Regardless of if Schneizel had said anything. Saying "It was not strategy I read, but your personal nature." Could easily just be a statement Lelouch chose to start with. Implying that "I may not know your whole battle plan, but I know your nature!" It only sounds like a response because a question was asked right before and immediately something was said. There's no sign of recognition of the question in his tone when he says it. He's just calm, and he's known to start his fancy speeches with a sudden rise in his speaking tone. He especially did it often as Zero when he was trying to be dramatic. We just translated that as a response. But it's little more related then saying "Cheese" to the question "How old are you?" We'd recognize it as a response. Albeit a very dumb and random one. Even if the one answering weren't even paying attention to the one asking the question we would read it as a response. As for the interruption, the only other answer I have is Lelouch predicted he himself would be in the shuttle by that point and just stopped his speech, gave himself time to geass, and said his little "I'll give you a present" one-liner. But I'll admit that's just a guess, far more probable and in character then him being omnipotent though.
*** I wasn't actually suggesting he was omnipotent, don't be stupid. The real reason that this completely convoluted plan worked because of Executive Meddling. If it were as the creator originally planned, I'm sure it would have been much better explained. However, as it stands, I consider it nothing less than an asspull. I don't know about you or Schniezel, but had it been me and I said nothing, with Lelouch suddenly said what he said in a "No, you're wrong" tone of voice, I know I would have been suspicious. And the interruption breaks any remaining suspension of disbelief I had. You can go ahead and make excuses about why Schniezel conveniently never said anything that would screw up Lelouches gambit, or how Lelouch mysteriously knew what and how he would say certain things, or how he knew when he'd be interrupted, but these are nothing more than excuses, and poor ones as far as I'm concerned. The simple fact is, the reason the entire conversation conveniently played out as it did was because the writers wanted Lelouch to win and were pressed for time so they couldn't give us an appropriate resolution. I love Code Geass, believe me, I do, but this IS a wallbanger as there is simply no adequate explanation other than Godly powers (read: The writers) actively working to help Lelouch.
*** I added the whole thing to {{DarthWiki/WallBanger}}s pointing out that it takes Ominiscient to know what Schneizel was going to say, and it was made worse by the fact that they already did the thing with Mao except it was better done there since Mao was an obsessed idiot, and not someone hyped up to Schneizel's level. The only question is this also an Asspull and should it be added their.
*** For the love of ''shit'', NO. It is NOT an AssPull. It doesn't even fit the definition. Lelouch was ''not'' omniscient, and if he showed even a hint of it for the "interruption" sequence that has you guys all butthurt, it's explained right in his sentence. "What I read was your personal nature". I don't know about you, but when you know someone's personal nature or in any sense, know them ''enough'', you can predict a good deal of what they're going to say. In Schneizel's case, he ''would'' probably interrupt Lelouch while he's in the middle of saying something, for the simple fault that he's predictable. And for the greeting, you can go ahead and make excuses, and say what ''you'' would have done in such a situation (such as not saying anything) but you're completely missing the point. Staying silent to whatever greeting Lelouch may have given him (or staying silent to Lelouch hailing him from a communications room in general) is NOT something Schneizel does, and therefore, was something he did NOT do at that point. To say that he should have or that he would have or what have you, is silly, because he didn't. And to repeat what's been stated already, Lelouch ''didn't even predict'' the dialogue exactly, he simply recorded himself based on what he knew of Schneizel.
*** Sorry, but that's not good enough for me. I know my parents well enough to know what they will say if asked certain questions, but I cannot predict HOW they say it. They may go on for a bit, or they may be concise, they may be more assertive or passive, and a hundred other variants. And I certainly can't predict more than the first few sentences, let alone an entire conversation when discussing something as complex as personal philosophies. My problem is how Lelouch got every sentence in the perfect frame of time for Schneizel to reply and how he predicted much of what was said (And lelouch DID predict exactly what Schneizel said in some instances, when he replied using Schneizel's own words). But keep in mind, this isn't a simply question, it's an entire conversation, so the more it went on, the more possibilities there are that someone will go on for too long or say something different grew. Schneizel believes he just conquered the whole fucking world. With his life goal accomplish, that was likely to have put him in some kind of mood, which would affect his speech patterns. Where he might normally be concise and objective, he could be a bit proud and and gloat a bit. Especially Lelouch, his rival and the man he just beat. Schneizel is normally modest, yes, but is it really that unlikely that maybe, JUST MAYBE, he might behave differently than normal after accomplishing his life goal? Oh, and he was about to die as well. That typically effects people as well. Not to mention that someone else, such as Diethard, having also accomplished his dream of making a revolutionary story, may have made a comment toward Lelouch, to which he would have not responded. Now, with all these factors in mind, do you seriously believe that it isn't a bit odd for lelouch to get the entire dialogue between them as precisely as he did? That it isn't a bit odd that Lelouch knew what to say, when to say and how to say it? Even the slightest slip would have blown his cover, and I find it absurd that the entire conversation went as precise as it did against someone as intelligent as Schneizel. That's not even including the interruption. Even if he knew Schneizel would eventually do so, how could he possibly know when? It could have been at the beginning of the conversation or never happened at all. It may not be an asspull, so forgive me for not knowing my tropes, but it has it's essence. As for the "he did what he did" factor, yes, it's over and done with, but that doesn't change how drastically unlikely is was for it to fold out the way it did.
*** Actually, just to address one of the above assumptions...Schneizel had not just conquered the world. In fact, he was actually attempting to flee and vaguely hoping to fight another day if he could find the resources to do so via other nations. But he had no cards left at the moment other than hoping Damocles would explode after using Nunnally as bait. Once confronted inside the shuttle though he let Lelouch lead him on during the "conversation" because he just expected to be killed, which goes hand in hand with his not really caring about anything, even himself, aside from doing what people expect of him. Granted, Lelouch read Schneizel way too accurately and unrealistically so, that I'm not questioning.
*** The Mao plan was more realistic for several reasons; 1)Lelouch knows that Mao is obsessed with C.C., and uses that to goad him into getting angry and losing his concentration 2)Lelouch knows that Mao mainly relies on his MindReading rather than his intelligence, so if he sets up his plan while out of range, Mao won't suspect anything apart from the obvious until it's too late, 3)The video has long pauses, like just after the beginning (Mao asks "Cat got your tongue?" at one point in the dub after Lelouch doesn't say anything for a while) and parts where Lelouch gets interrupted by Mao. 4)There are a lot fewer lines of dialogue; just enough to anger Mao but not enough to make him suspect anything. 5)None of his statements rely on predicting exactly what Mao says.
** I made a complete rendition of their conversation from the English Dub. It can be found "here":http://www.kongregate.com/forums/2-off-topic/topics/100639-lelouch-vs-schniezel . I'd like to point out that at times it seems like it really is a message and is conceivable that it's a recording; at other times, it seems like a conversation. Well, really, only at one time. So I guess it's * sort of* possible that it's a recording, but super-unlikely. Like, pretty much an as pull all the same.
* Is there a reason why Suzaku was the only one besides Lelouch who could know about the Zero: Requiem plan? Obviously, it wouldn't work if it became public knowledge, but he could have at least let the Black Knight leadership know that he wasn't actually going to betray them (and that they weren't actually going to be executed). Also, why did he have to actually die? He'd already faked his own death once, he could do probably do it again. As long is it never got out, the effect would be the same.
** But he didn't want to risk word getting out. The only way to ensure the plan would work would be to actually die (the actually plausibility of the plan etc. notwithstanding).
** Jeremiah, Sayoko, Lloyd and Cecil knew the plan as well. Lelouch has also done ''horrible'' things in the two month interim. It's RedemptionEqualsDeath by choice.
** As already stated Lelouch felt that he needed to die to atone for his actions while using Geass.
** Would they even have believed him? Kallen might have, but beyond that, it's questionable. They believe that he betrayed them and when they called him on it, he decided to act nastily to save Kallen rather than explaining himself at all. They had no reason to trust him. If he was lying, then they could very well have given up whatever chance they had of defeating him if they had let him do his thing. Also, for his plan to fully work, he needed everyone to oppose him. He wouldn't come across as totally evil if the BK didn't oppose him fully. As for his death, both he and Suzaku seem to prescribe to the Japanese idea that dying somehow fixes things (particularly your sins). He'd already given up on his life the moment that the BK betrayed him. He went after the emperor with the intention of locking himself in with him. He seemed to think that his life was totally expendable at that point. So, he used his death to further his plan. Now, I really think that there was a better way for him to go about things than becoming the world's ultimate evil and having Zero kill him, but he seemed to think that it was the best way and that it would somehow let him atone for the nasty things that he'd done.
*** Actually, Lelouch simply went with it because he was overcome with despair following Nunnally's apparent demise and the betrayal.
* What exactly ''is'' the [[MemeticMutation 'Homolust']] thing and where did it come from?
** Exactly what it sounds like, 4chan.
* Now that's probably clear that geass doesn't make you physically stronger, how did Mao survive being shot multiple times by the police? I know he explains it that Lelouch messed up by commanding the cops to shoot him rather than kill him, but honestly, the guy received multiple bullet wounds and was left for dead.
** He had likely obtained body armor at the beginning of the episode, when he goes to the weapon's dealer and blackmails him into supplies. In other words, all the bullet wounds were to his extremities.
*** Since Lelouch didn't tell the police to kill Mao, they came out of the Geass as soon as they finished shooting him. So they'd have no idea who he was and would immediately transport him to the hospital, saving him from death by blood loss.
*** The real question would be how exactly none of their shots managed to connect with his head, but that seems to happen a lot in all sorts of shows.
*** He specifically says that he's amazed at how good Britannian hospital care is.
*** Most people (unless they are elite snipers) tend to aim for center mass so they have a higher chance of hitting.
*** I believe there ''is'' a more-or-less "official" explanation provided; it's on the FridgeBrilliance page.
* Episode 25 of R2. Why did they attach chains to Nunnally's ''useless, paralysed legs''.
** Because Lelouch probably looked more evil that way.
** Mao did the same thing back in season one when he had Nunally tied up and photographed.
** Maybe he was scared that if she got back her sight through sheer willpower, she could do the same with walking? (Not fully logical, but it does also make him look more evil, as was said.)
*** In NightmareOfNunnally, after coming to terms with herself, she regains her sight ''and'' her mobility.
** The chains on her legs seem to be the only ones anchored to the ground by way of the weights, so they were meant to keep her in place in case someone tried to rescue her (although Lelouch knew how it would all play out). Oddly enough, her arms aren't restrained, either.
* I liked it when R2 went from the dickish to the Philip K. Dickish, but [[DarthWiki/WallBanger banged the wall]] when the pop metaphysics was dropped. For a brief, shining moment, the series gained a billion Maturity Points; Lelouch's thoughts moved from "I AM ANGSTING! I'll trap myself forever with my father in an eternal sacrifice, like the Important Messiah Figure I am!" to "What? I never actually interfered with his plan?" to "Well, maybe I'm a bad person, but there's good out there, and I'll try to protect it." He seems to finally realize that Changing The World is less important than being a decent person! Then... he comes up with the ZeroRequiem. '''Did. He. Learn. Nothing?'''
** Also, is there a trope for "shows that would have had awesome endings if they'd stopped a few episodes earlier?"
*** He actually did protect the world, in a roundabout way, through Zero Requiem, if you look at it from that perspective. And well..I would have probably banged my head against a wall if the show had ended at episode 21, unless there had been a third season to wrap a few things up. The end of 25, as much as you might not like it, did wrap up a lot more than 21's.
*** Except he didn't even need to. It was all part of a death wish after everything he lost, and/or thought he had.
** You know, while we're at it, why did Zero requiem have to take place? Couldn't he have just been a decent king? I mean, he freed the Numbers, ended illegal business practices and got rid of the evil aristocracy, and people LOVED him for it. Then he went on to betray everyone for his elaborate suicide. Why couldn't he just continue being a good emperor?
*** People really, really didn't love him for it. Certainly not when he was Emperor. I've always thought Lelouch was a basically moral person, who just had to do so many horrible things for the greater good--certainly that's how he sees it, which is why he calls himself a "demon", implying that he's damned. In order to atone, he kills himself. But being a LargeHam, he can't just take some arsenic in his wine or what have you--he has to do it like that. (There's also the theory that he's not dead--though given WordOfGod you have to assume [[DeathOfTheAuthor that the author is]]--which is a not entirely unpleasant thought, too).
*** Fair enough, people didn't love him for it and he saw himself as a bad person, but that still doesn't explain why he wouldn't just be a good emperor and bring peace to his nation. Seems a bit of a more sensible way of atonement than suicide.
*** Schneizel. He had to deal with Schneizel. If he had just continued to be a good emperor like he appeared to be at the beginning, he wouldn't have been able to defeat Schneizel in time. Schneizel had Damocles and as soon as it was in space, it would have been game over. Without Schneizel, he probably could have joined the UFN normally and then worked at convincing the rest of the EU to join (rather than conquering them like he does later). However, with Schneizel doing who-knows-what with Damocles and bunch of FLEIJA warheads, he had to put himself in a position to deal with Schneizel as quickly and efficiently as possible, and taking over the UFN was the fastest way to do it. With that done, he couldn't exactly go back to being Mr. Nice Guy. No one would believe him. Also, one of his major reasons for Zero Requiem was to be so nasty and evil that everyone would forget Euphemia, the Massacre Princess. If he had just been Mr. Nice Guy, he couldn't have done that. So, while he may have been able to find a way to save the day and still be Mr. Nice Guy, it didn't quite fit his goals and it would have been much harder. So, he decided to just be as nasty as possible and get things done as efficiently as possible and pay for it with his life.
*** Because he knew that he couldn't. Revolution comes in two phases: destruction and creation. Lelouch was a destroyer. What makes him different from most revolutionaries is that he actually ''realised'' that the skills and mindset required to accomplish the former, pretty much precludes you from succeeding at the latter. He destroyed Britannia - destroyed the entirety of the world that was - but he simply did not have the skills to build a new world. That's where people like Nunally, Kaguya and the Tianzi come in.
*** That he used destruction as a means to an end didn't make him a pure destroyer; he also created the Black Knights, and more importantly, the UFN, among other things, which demonstrated that he had organizational and leadership skills that could be put to good use as a peacetime leader had he lived. Which makes his death seem like such a waste. Which makes, in response to the other bulletpoint, the idea of acting even worse and causing even more deaths as atonement complete nonsense. It was just [[DeathSeeker an over-the-top death wish]].
*** However, it would have been possible to explain the thing with Schneizel after his half-brother had been defeated and cancel Zero Requiem. A little harder with the thing with the UFN, which he wouldn't really have had to do if he wasn't trying to set himself up as the bad guy, but that's what you have propaganda for. The way I see it, the actual reason he doesn't take the Good Emperor route and dismisses Zero Requiem after defeating Schneizel is because of Suzaku. IMO he had not planned to actually die because he wanted to atone (he's expressed his views on seeking death with both Suzaku, Tohdo and Urabe), but because he thought Nunnally was dead. When he finds out that Nunnally was still alive, he has already promised Suzaku his death. Letting Suzaku kill him and actually dying, however, may be two entirely different things, as people in the CG universe have proven not to always die if they are killed.
*** It's not simply a matter of a "promise"; Schneizel would have called him out for waffling. Plus, he had already gone too far to bail out.
** What I hated was that by the end of the series, Lelouch has become the type of person he called his father out for being. In episode 21, Lelouch called out his father for being so wrapped up in his plan for world peace that he ended up abandoning his children and causing them so much pain. However, by the end of the series, Lelouch becomes so wrapped up in his 'Zero Requiem' plan that he sees fit to betray his old comrades and cause them pain, which, when you look at it, is exactly like Charles' plan. The only difference is that Lelouch's plan is to make a better future, while Charles' is about preserving the past, and the Lelouch has no illusions about what he really is.
*** There's a key difference between the two. Charles's apathy towards the pain of others is genuine: a byproduct of his single-minded dedication to his plan. Lelouch's apathy is forced: a requirement for his plan to work at all. And while we're on the subject of differences between the Zero Requiem and the Ragnarok Connection, there's the rather important distinction of one allowing humanity to retain its free will while the other doesn't.
*** Whether or not Lelouch's apathy is forced doesn't bring back all the people that died because of his plan.
*** Totally. I could never really get into this show, despite the hilarious narm factor, because doing evil things "for a good reason" is just as bad as doing evil things for personal profit. Sure, Lelouch is a nicer guy than Charles but it's not like that does thousands of people any good.
*** Actually, in response to all of the above, the most accurate description for Lelouch when he came up with and enacted Zero Requiem would be WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds. It's definitely true that continuing on as a good leader would have a better net effect with less destruction, and Lelouch living on. But the last part is exactly where all of this comes in. Ever since Nunnally was thought dead and the Black Knights had betrayed him, Lelouch felt [[DespairEventHorizon he had no reason to live on]] and was simply looking for an excuse to die. Unfortunately, said plan involved taking a lot of people with him, and Lelouch was evidently too far gone to reflect on the ramifications of what he was doing. That said destruction he was causing was a result of his suffering, and that he wouldn't have resorted to such means before the perpetrating events, makes him a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds.
* I searched this page, and was surprised not to see this. Geass may take place in an alternate universe, but ''what on earth happened to the rules of chess?'' I could accept a variant where you could move your king into check. But pawns that can move backwards?
** I thought that was a deliberate rule violation by Schniezel, humiliating Zero in front of all these important people by stealing the victory away from him by "giving" it to him, or at least trying to make him look childish by seeing if he would say "You can't do that".
** That's just [[DidNotDotheResearch Did Not Do the Research]]. Taniguchi has admitted openly that he doesn't really know the rules of chess that well.
*** Taniguchi doesn't actually write the show and I haven't read or heard any such statement being mentioned before. Not really an excuse though, although it only mildly bothered me.
** This isn't an answer, but a variant where pawns can move backwards makes far more sense than one where you can put your own king in check.
** Yeah that bugged me as well. Chess is played to checkmate but in this world it's apparently played to take out the king.
*** Well, technically our chess is played to take out the king. Checkmate is simply a setup where taking the king cannot be stopped.
*** Considering that this is also the same series where Lelouch was accused of cheating in a chess match (which is hardly an easy thing to do in chess) and once decided to lead with his king I think we should just go with 'The people who wrote this don't play chess'.
* What's up with all the two-letter acronyms/alliterations in the series? We have C.C., V.V., R2 (one way to transcribe it is "RR"), Lelouch Lamperouge (LL), Cecile Croomy ([[WMG/CodeGeass another CC?]]), Karen Kouzuki (KK), Sayoko Shinozaki (SS), Anya Alstreim (AA), Gilbert G.P. Guilford (this one is so cool, he can get a GGG acronym, too)...
** I never noticed that until you brought it up, but it occurs to me that given that Lelouch has a lot of super-hero traits (e.g. a costume and playing the RichIdiotWithNoDayJob role), this might also be a reflection of Western comic book tropes.
* Does anyone know what the plot of R2 was supposed to be like had it not been for the supposed ExecutiveMeddling due to the time slot change? This troper heard that the series was supposed to have picked off immediately after S1's cliffhanger finale, but that's not exactly a detailed description.
** I'm unaware of any official outline for what was changed. They had to change the beginning to make it work better as an entry point to the series, but that's all that they've said was changed. They ''have'' said that the ending was what they'd always intended, so obviously not ''everything'' was changed. Best guess, they had to alter the beginning somewhat which resulted in compressing the rest of the series a bit because there was less room for the original material (which is probably what resulted in some of the pacing problems towards the end of the series that people have complained about). So, the overall story is the same, but some of the details are different and they weren't necessarily able to go into detail on everything that they wanted to. However, as far as I know, it's never been revealed what exactly had to be changed.
** I read that in one of the DVD interviews or such they said that there were two scenarios that they had come up with. The one that they were going to go ahead with before ExecutiveMeddling kicked in involved Lelouch being captured and imprisoned in Brittania after his standoff with Suzaku at the end of episode 25. Then there was some weird stuff about him breaking himself out somehow and going up against Schneizel in a political election or something. The second scenario, which is the one that I thought would be more interesting, involved Zero coming back to the Black Knights, except it would be an imitator; actually a girl named Lycia who would basically be a gender-swapped Lelouch. Of course, this leads the Black Knights to get very confused. So while they're all onboard their CoolAirship base, Lelouch himself comes back and has to join the group as himself, without any disguises and he gets picked on by Tamaki a lot. I think the Ashford characters were supposed to be there too, presumably being pulled along for the ride after the events of the season 1 finale.
* How did Suzaku survive his fight with Kallen? I may need to rewatch this, but I seem to recall that he pretty clearly didn't eject, his entire robot exploded around him, and he even commented that [[NothingCanSaveUsNow even his "Live On!" command wasn't going to be enough against her]]. Is this something else we can just chalk up to his CharlesAtlasSuperpower?
** He probably did eject, but it was hidden from view by a pillar.
*** Having rewatched it, as planned, this doesn't seem to have happened, as we can see his hatch the whole time until Lancelot explodes, and it neither opens nor ejects.
* If Suzaku was interested in Lelouch regaining his memories so that he could ask Lelouch why he killed Euphemia, why didn't he do so between capturing him and turning him over to the Emperor?
** This is probably one of those things he became interested in ''after'' Lelouch was memory-wiped. He was probably just too angry to ask him before said memory-wipe.
* Where did the train full of Sutherlands in episode 2 come from? Did it just happen to conveniently pass by the battle area?
** Incoming troops Geassed by Lelouch off-screen?
* How did V.V. get a code?
** Presumably the same way as C.C.: from someone who had it before. There's probably a fixed number of immortals in the Geassverse, with their powers existing since time immemorial, and they can be only be transferred, not created or destroyed, at least until [[spoiler:Lelouch erases his father from existence and presumably his Code with him]].
*** Right, but the timing seems a little wonky to me, since it seems like in every other case the "contract" between the person who bestows a code and the person who gets the Geass takes a significant amount of time to fulfill--both C.C. and Mao got their Geasses at a young age, then grew to maturity before they were supposed to fulfill the contract (IIRC, C.C. sort of discarded Mao when he couldn't bring himself to kill her). I guess V.V. could have gotten his geass at a really young age, and just fulfilled his contract with unusual ease (which implies he was a lot like Rolo in some ways), but--did he have his Code when he made his pact with Charles? I guess these aren't plot holes so much as questions which we'll never know about because of R2's "not as planned"-ness. Does any of this come up in the picture shows, or the audio shows, or other [[AllThereInTheManual supplemental material]]? I haven't seen all of those.
*** Well, notice if you will that CC asks Lelouch to kill her in R2, not much more than a year after her first encounter with him. And so presumably if you really, ah, do it to it, it's possible to evolve your Geass to a level that would make you immortal pretty fast (which VV could have done). Mao and CC both received Geass at young ages, with no prior knowledge of exactly what they were, and so they might not have thought to develop it at the same rate. Also notice that CC apparently received her Geass when she was about ten, and took over the Code when she was about sixteen. Compare that with Mao, who received his Geass when he was six, and at seventeen still hasn't taken it over (and so potentially had his regular Geass for longer than CC). Clearly it's not necessary to hold a Geass power for any long amount of time before you can take over a Code. VV looks about thirteen, right? So if you go by Lelouch's timeframe, he could have been eleven or twelve and still taken over the Code by the time he was thirteen.
* What would have happened if Jeremiah had used his Geass canceler on Anya while she was still holding Marianne's consciousness? Would it have erased Marianne from existence? What if a Geass canceler was used on someone while Mao was reading their thoughts? Would it make Mao unable to read their thoughts, temporarily (presumably for the duration of the blue sphere thingy) or permanently?
** It'd probably only be turned off in Jeremiah's blue sphere thingy.
** The Geass Canceler erases permanent Geass effects, so presumably it would either just erase Marianne's consciousness, or send her back to her original body (which would effectively kill her in either case). Since it doesn't make the affected people immune to Geass (Lelouch was able to geass Shirley a second time), Mao would probably be able to read their minds as soon as Jeremiah turned his power off.
* When Rolo joined the Black Knights for the assault on the Geass Directorate, did they know he was "Lelouch Lamperouge's brother"?
** Doesn't seem like it.
* Rolo has had his Geass for much longer than it took Lelouch to develop Main/PowerIncontinence. Why did Rolo retain control of his Geass for so long?
** Until Lelouch started going to work on him, Rolo was very much TheStoic; my guess is that his comparatively low level of emotional arousal, compared to Lelouch constantly flipping out, affected it, and that if he'd lived he would have developed his PowerIncontinence really quickly. (This could also be why Charles still had control of his Geass despite having it for at least ten years, though it's also possible that he used his Geass on himself in the same way that he stopped Lelouch from mind-controlling everyone while oblivious to his ability.)
** I think Lelouch's geass went out of control because he was using it so much; he geassed hundreds of people in just a few months, which accelerated its permanence. I would say that Rolo didn't use his nearly as often, which means he has longer to go before his gets out of control.
** {{Sneebs}} thought is was to do with Rolo being an experimental test tube baby who was designed to not have some of the shortcomings of Geass and instead have cardiac problems. I thought this would explain his isolated childhood (and hence his reason for latching onto Lelouch) as well as his rather peculiar Achilles Heel (overusing the Geass results in heart failure - seems like a fail-safe to me).
** After reading all of the above, the real question is: why is ''Bismarck's'' geass permanently active? Did it start out that way? Or when he said "never thought I'd use it against anyone but Marianne" did he mean "I'd never use it again after it became permanently active, except against Marianne"? On an unrelated note--as the Knight of One, what territory, if any, did he claim? So many unanswered questions about Bismarck, basically.
*** It could be that there are some Geass that evolve faster, regardless of their user's emotional state. If Lelouch's Geass was fast evolving, AND became weakened by emotional shocks, it could evolve as quick as it did, while Rolo's is more resilient. As for Bismarck, perhaps it's hard to avoid not seeing the future? That he had a natural tendency to see what other's were going to do, and thus had a much harder time stopping it, hence the sown eyelid.
* Why did Lelouch's Geass eye disappear for the duration of the Main/TimeSkip? Does it mean that Charles's Geass can block other people's ability to use their Geass in addition to rewriting their memories?
** He also used his Geass to make Nunnally blind--even if it was psychosomatic--so clearly it's more general than manipulating memories. I'm guessing it grants him a measure of control over an individual's unconscious mind, and that this is enough to surpress an out of control Geass. (This also adds a new angle to his obsession with the World of C...)
* Was Charles affected by Lelouch's order to die, or did he fake it? It's of particular note that his "suicide" actually takes him out for a short time, but the subsequent shots Lelouch fires take no effect.
** While it seems more likely he was affected, I like to think he was faking it, just to be a dick.
*** There is some evidence for this. When Lelouch shot his geass at him, they didn't show the whole neuron shift thing. Considering they do that consistently throughout the entire show, the fact that they didn't do so in this instance must mean something.
*** Actually, this is not the only instance where it isn't shown. He is, however, shown from afar, so that viewers can't see whether his eyes have the orange tint that indicates being under the control of Geass.
*** He had the code, so he must have been immune to the geass. He was just being a dick.
* It's been bugging the hell out of me since the start of the series: Lelouch states pretty clearly that he made the word "Geass" up. Even C.C. was surprised by the name. So why does everyone in the world refer to that kind of power as "Geass"?
** He didn't make it up, he heard it from the telepathic conversation with C.C. when she bestowed the power upon him and assumed that this is how the power was called. A lucky guess, if anything.
** I've been watching the dub and the sub over and over and I never hear her say "Geass".
*** It isn't said when they make the contract, at least onscreen, but later, when Lelouch meets her again, he claims that he heard the word during the mental contact.
* Where is it said that Nunnally succeeded Lelouch on the imperial throne? It sort of makes sense given the montage at the end, but is it said explicitly?
** Next of kin. She may be imprisoned or have violated the laws or whatever, but she is Lelouch's sister so without a son or named heir she would be crowned. It works a similar way with things like wills, family will always get your stuff if there isn't a will and provided that you weren't the killer. It's actually what would really happen in a situation like this but that just brings an ItJustBugsMe to real life.
* This's been bugging me since episode 21 of R2. How old is Marianne? Why hasn't she aged considerably like Charles? and seeing how her personality is that of a 13-year-old girl on growth hormones, why does she fit Anya better than Anya herself?
** She's younger than Charles, and she hasn't aged due to ''being dead''.
*** Missing the point here. She looks the exact same from when she (presumably) first met Charles and both V.V. and C.C. were with them, to her time of death. Charles aged a LOT since then, going from light brown overly long hair to gray curls. Where's ''her'' change?
*** Well, the youngest we see her was in 1997; Lelouch would have been born at the end of 1999; and she died in 2010. Her appearance in 2010 is somewhat older than in 1997, so she ''did'' age - albeit not as much as Charles has appeared to (though he ''is'' quite a bit older than she is). However, once she was dead, any time you see her it would be a mental image of herself, so her actual age wouldn't really matter. Still, when we first see her in the World of C, she looks basically the same as when she died. So, I really don't see a problem here. She doesn't appear to have aged quite as much as Charles did between 1997 and 2010, but he's a fair bit older than her and he totally changed his hairstyle. It's not out of the question that she just aged better.
** As for Anya: it seems that Marianne's Geass affected her profoundly. Presumably, Marianne has taken the reins from Anya in circumstances besides the ones we see; I don't think Marianne would be particularly restrained in doing so, either. Since she had Marianne in her head from a really young age, the effect periodically losing control had on her during her formative years is probably why she's so...well, [[Characters/NeonGenesisEvangelion Rei Ayanami-y]]. Also, given that "Marianne the Flash" was apparently a very skilled pilot, she's proabbly the reason why Anya is a Knight of Rounds. Come to think of it: do we ever know whether or not Anya was aware of Marianne's presence in her head? I don't remember any indication that she's aware, so probably not...which is even scarier in some ways.
*** Well, she may not be aware of Marianne's presence in her head specifically, but the memory lapses do make her resort to recording things whenever possible. So, to an extent, I guess.
* How does Lelouch signal the Zero costume to reveal his eye? I don't think the mechanism can be so sophisticated that it reacts to acts of will...
** He could just have a button on his wrist, like Spider-man's web shooters.
* Nobody at Ashford Academy has any clue that Kallen is [[ButNotTooForeign half-Japanese]] until actually told. Even ''Suzaku'' is shocked at the revelation. Conversely, she has no problem passing as Japanese when she's undercover at the beginning of the second season. If she's ambiguous-looking enough that she can pass as either race without question, you'd think ''someone'' would have noticed -- if being even slightly Japanese by blood is reason enough for a painter not to win an award, her presence at Ashford would likely be upsetting.
** It's anime. Caucasians, mongoloids, Arabs, and native Americans all have the same skin tone.
** They're drawn this way, but they don't ''literally'' look like that. My guess is that she looks Britannian, and in R2 episode 1 she applied some kind of make-up making her look more Eleven-like, as part of her bunnygirl disguise. We don't see it because of animation limitations.
*** You're reading too much into this. There's a much simpler explanation: One can look Asian and still be, say, British or American or what have you in real life. Who's to say the Geass-verse is different in that respect? The prejudice could easily have nothing to do with race and everything to do with country. (Do you automatically assume every Asian person you see is Chinese/Korean/Japanese/etc.?)
*** If race has nothing to do with the prejudice, how do the Brittanians know who to discriminate against? Even "honorary Brittanians" like Suzaku are often treated with contempt. It's pretty hard to treat people as second-class citizens if they don't stand out.
*** Look at Villetta for a better example. She's clearly not white and she experiences no discrimination from any Britannian. In fact, as soon as the Japanese start to riot during the Black Rebellion all of the Elevens who see her know she's a Britannian. My best guess is that Britannians and Numbers wear different clothing and that's how people can tell the difference. Look at each instance of an Eleven or a Britannian being on screen and the Elevens are always in shoddy clothing or jumpsuits or something like that while the Britannians wear expensive clothing and business suits.
** About the fact that "even ''Suzaku'' is shocked at the revelation" - that one thing is not that unlikely. I am half-Korean, and quite a few white and black people I talked to noticed that I look like I have some Asian ancestry, while ''every single'' Korean I talk to for the first time says something along the lines of "You're lying", "No way" and "You don't look Asian ''at all''". As for Kallen's acceptance at Ashford, it may have something to do with the fact that the Stadtfelds maintain that her mother is Mrs. Stadtfeld, not their Eleven maid. It was mentioned that they are an influential family, so it is plausible that some would not dare to question their daughter's pedigree, even with her supposedly ambiguous looks. Or it could be that the Academy does not really care that much about Britannia's racial policies.
* I can accept giant robots, magic eye powers, and most everything else about the show, but ''how'' the ''heck'' did Lelouch pull of that million Zero thing in episode 8 of R2? Either he somehow managed to get his hands on a million Zero costumes, fitted for every single person who showed up, and distribute them in a few minutes; or he got a million people to each obtain a Zero costume and change into it when the mist appeared. He did this without any information leaks, and apparently set it up so that only people with Zero costumes showed up for the second attempt at establishing the Specially Administrated Zone. How the hell did he pull off something on such a massive scale without anyone leaking information to the authorities? There's no way he could have geassed a million people in that time, and the logistics of it all would be ridiculously hard even if he had the aid of [[DeathNote Light Yagami]], [[{{Gargoyles}} David Xanatos]], and [[{{WITCH}} Nerissa]]. Just...HOW???
** This has bugged me too, and while it's a touching and thought-provoking scene, I consider it the largest DarthWiki/WallBanger in the entire show. He probably negotiated the production of the costumes with the Chinese Federation alongside the exile itself, but I see no way he could have distributed them to so many people in Britannian territory in complete secrecy. Not to mention how they put them all synchronously. NoDelaysForTheWicked at its finest.
** I just had to say "RuleOfCool" and move on. Not only was it a great scene, but for extra RuleOfCool points you have to consider the possibility that when he did that, Lelouch knew what his last move in the end game was going to be. And also that all those people might still have their costumes. Which allows '''[[http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/09/29/mind-raped-geassed-schneizel/#more-1148 this]]''' to happen.
*** I just [[http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951eef1962011efa32623900f5 rewatched this scene]], and I'll have to amend that from RuleOfCool to [[RefugeInAudacity Rule Of Absolutely Ridiculous]]. I really can't defend it on any logical level--the way everyone acts like this is a daring yet sense-making strategy (especially Lloyd's "Ah-ha!"), or how everyone changed perfectly into costume while blinded by smoke, or how they were all tailored, or basically anything that happens in that scene. Except that it's hilarious and awesome and someone took the time to put a helmet on a dog.
*** You really think people don't know how to put on clothes unless they can see them?
** In addition, the reactions of Britannia during this incident is laughable. Apparently the only options are to massacre or to let them leave. Why not just stop them from boarding the ships or recant the exile order?
*** Recanting the exile order would lead to a riot. Riot would lead to either massacre or bloody battle.
** For that matter, why couldn't the Black Knights just handle the transportation in secret instead of resorting to this ''really'' far-fetched and error-prone public stunt? They did transport and distribute the costumes in secret, after all.
** The costumes are easy to explain. Zero becomes a hero and symbol of the population and suddenly it becomes fashionable to dress up like Zero. Look at VForVendetta when everyone has a Guy Fawkes mask after V starts to become a popular symbol of freedom. Basically people will just try to copy him and make costumes to resemble him. It wouldn't be too difficult to find one from some tailor who's trying to rake in the dough. As to the whole stunt, it could work but it would have taken hours before they were actually all released. Remember they don't know who the real Zero is. Unmasking everyone would've been a huge waste of time because "Ok everyone's mask is off...which one of you is the real Zero?" No one's going to give up their chance to leave behind the repressive government of Area 11 and so it would only be a matter of time before they're all exiled. Also, as Suzaku pointed out, all that Britannia did was exile pretty much every malcontent and Black Knight in the country. No more internal struggle to worry about. And if the Black Knights start a fight from the outside, we all know which empire is the best at defeating external enemies.
*** V needed to [[spoiler: hack into the government's computer system]] to arrange for the transportation of those masks and even then he needed to set the entire thing up well in advance. In Code Geass people are apparently able to put a plan in motion mere hours after thinking it up.
* I don't understand why Britannia was so weak-willed towards the Chinese Federation, despite being portrayed as clearly stronger. So you clearly have an antagonizing country wanting to carve a piece of Japan for themselves, and Britannia seems to be in appeasement mode. You have a "rogue" Chinese general supporting an revolution and somehow that does not result in war. However, having the Chinese embassy harbor terrorists and retaliating will result in war. If the Chinese Federation is so much weaker than Britannia (to the point of pretty much selling out the country), why does it seem like Britannia is afraid of the consequences to appropriate responses?
** Britannia may be stronger, but that doesn't mean China is weak. My impression is that if they went to all-out war, Britannia would win but suffer extremely heavy losses which might end up bringing down the empire in the aftermath. Also, at the time Zero and pals claim sanctuary in the Chinese consul building, most of Britannia's military force is in the EU; if China were to launch an attack on mainland Britannia, they could conquer a substantial amount of land. Even if they didn't topple the government, Britannia would have lost a lot of territory and resources by the time the bulk of its miliatary returned from the EU, and then if they manage to force the Chinese out, they'll have to deal with a resurgent EU. The end result of this would be either Britannia being weakened by conquered by China, weakened by China and toppled by the EU, or trapped in a war on two fronts with China on the west coast and the EU on the east. Either way, Britannia loses.
* In episode 13 of the first season, Kallen walks into a warehouse Lelouch happens to be in. Luckily for Lelouch, he's partially hidden in the shadows, so Kallen doesn't realize that he's Zero. Thinking rightly that she's talking with Zero but not realizing that Zero is Lelouch, Kallen talks with Lelouch/Zero. Kallen has talked to Lelouch at school before, so why can't she deduce by the voice of Lelouch that he's Zero?
** Lelouch uses a different, deeper voice for Zero. That's why Kallen doesn't recognize him over the phone either.
** She did suspect him at first but he arranged for her to get a phone call while she was in his shower after being soaked in champain, after that she gave up on the idea that the 2 of them were the same
* Is it just me or does V.V. physically resemble Nanami from {{Revolutionary Girl Utena}} a little too closely? The character designs are uncannily similar...
* For how long was Villetta carrying Ougi's baby? It seemed like she realized she was pregnant in the last episode of the first season, and as this troper recalls, a year passes between R1 and R2. That's well above the normal gestation period for humans, so Villetta ought to have given birth...
** Easy. She slept with him after she met up with him in R2. Once she was on the Ikaruga, they may have had the chance to have fun in bed even before they betrayed Zero. And once they'd done that, she was free to wander the ship as she pleased. Add to that the month that Lelouch was gone plus the couple of weeks that he was emperor before saying that he was going to join the UFN, and Ougi had plenty of time to get her pregnant in R2. No, it doesn't make sense that she would still be pregnant from R1, but she had plenty of time to get it done in R2.
* During the infamous Table-Kun scene, why was Nina masturbating in the student council room instead of her own room or a bathroom? She was lucky it was Nunnaly, and not Lelouch or Sayoko, that walked in on her.
** The lights were off, and it was at night, so everyone else was presumably in their rooms. She had no reason to suspect that anyone would come in at that hour, whereas she might have a roommate (like Shirley does), and people might be using the bathrooms.
* This Troper is more bothered by the Table-kun scene's very ''existence''. '''Why the hell was it ever there in the first place???'''
* During the TimeSkip did Charles personally rewrite everyone's memories at Ashford, or what?
** Maybe his Geass works like Lelouch's in that it can be used on multiple people at once. He would just have to arrange all the students and staff to the auditorium, visit the place icognito, and tell them to replace their memories about Nunnally with memories about Rolo.
** Most of the students left after R1. The student council members are pretty much the only ones who stayed. That's why Suzaku didn't know much of anyone when he came back. The emperor only had to Geass the student council members. A covert trip to Ashford or summoning them to see him during a visit to Japan would be easy enough. He would then alter their memories to replace Nunnally with Rolo and off they go none-the-wiser. It ''is'' a bit odd that it's just the student council members who stayed (though at least it's obvious why Lelouch and Milly stayed), but the fact that most of the students left for Britannia after the whole Black Rebellion mess isn't all that hard to believe. In any case, it's pretty clear that he Geassed the student council members and it's clearly stated that pretty much everyone else left for Britannia after R1, so no one at Ashford in R2 except the student council wouldn't have known Nunnally anyway.
*** This one is actually sufficiently explained in the Manga (the original one, Vol. 7) After Jeremiah un-Geasses Shirley, she has a flashback sequence where, apparently, the Emperor goes to Ashford Academy to make a speech, then "[[NotMakingThisUpDisclaimer his eyes flashed]]." That's it. Kind of anticlimactic, but whatever.
*** I believe it's pretty much inferred in the montage of suppressed memories flooding back into her head, which includes the face of Charles, in supposed reference to him rewriting everyone's memories.
* Aside from moar angst related reasons[[hottip:* :which, granted, is practically the basis of causalty for everything on this show]], why ''did'' they put FREYA on Lancelot? Lloyd lampshades how stupid this is, pointing out quite reasonably that there's no reason to graft a strategic weapon onto a tactical one, but then they go and do it anyway. The closest to a good reason they offer is to have FLEIJA in Suzaku's hands, because they all think he's a trustworthy and outstanding guy (despite [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder massive evidence to the contrary]]), but they could have just given him a detonator. Also, why isn't there any [[IncrediblyLamePun fallout]] for Suzaku for this--are Knights of Rounds really immune to standing trial for ''killing millions''? (Actually, that would explain how Luciano was still a member...and be a pretty good example of how friggin' corrupt that system is.)
** To this troper it seemed that Nina had already installed FLEIJA on Lancelot without asking anybody's permission, and Lloyd was chastising her for doing it, not for wanting to do it. Presumably there still wasn't a fixed launching system for the missile, so she had to improvise by attaching it to a Knightmare, instead. And as for the Rounds, considering that they work directly for the Emperor, it would make sense that only the Emperor would have the right to chastise or punish them, the Britannian system being what it is. Any chance that Charles would be bothered by some mundane matter, like few million dead?
*** Plus, there's the chance Schneizel told Nina to attach it to FLEIJA, since destroying the Tokyo settlement [[XanatosRoulette all worked according to his plan]].
* Why didn't Lelouch just Geass Schneizel while they were playing chess, when the whole purpose of the game was to get rid of Suzaku (who was left in an entirely different room during the game), so that he could Geass people freely? It shouldn't be too difficult to mask it as an innocent sentence considering the circumstances: "After a few moves you will lose and have to submit to my requests!", just for example.
** I think the big hole opening in his mask might be suspicious...
** Was anyone behind Schneizel to see it? Most of the time other people just watched the sideshow through a monitor, as far as I was able to determine.
** Suzaku was there and commanding Schneizel followed by Schneizel actually ''doing it'' would be a dead giveaway that he used his Geass and thus that he was Lelouch. Suzaku wouldn't even need to see the slit in the mask to figure that out. Still, I suppose that you could argue that he should have just Geassed everyone when he first entered the room and had them restrain Suzaku (though that might have been a bit hard for them), but at that point in the show, Lelouch isn't generally Geassing people to permanently follow his orders. In any case, in order to Geass Schneizel, he needed to deal with Suzaku somehow because he couldn't afford for the emperor to find out that he was Zero because then Nunnally would be in danger.
* Does Lelouch not realise what the phrase 'United States' means? Japan appears to have been united long before the Britannian invasion, so if it were to gain independence, it would be a case of a single nation breaking away from TheEmpire. In the cases of the real-life United States (namely America and Mexico, and almost Australia), it was a case of several nations breaking away from Britain or Spain and then deciding to unite under a single government for strength. Why, then, does Lelouch want to establish the 'United States of Japan'? What nations other than Japan would it include?
** Ya. It's a bit odd. United States is obviously a collection of, well, united states - which Japan isn't. So, it's definitely odd. He compounds the error by talking about United India, United China (though that one does make ''some'' sense), United everything that had been in the Chinese Federation. My guess is that the writers were thinking that United States equals freedom and since Lelouch was creating a free country, it would be the United States. And of course, being Japan, it would have to be the United States of Japan rather than the United States of America. Still, it's definitely weird.
*** A United India would obviously include Pakistan and Bangladesh, maybe even Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Bhutan and Nepal. It's not that strange. India was a lot of different states back when the british began to divide & conquer.
*** You could make an argument for some of the countries he lists as being "United States of X" making sense, but quite a few do not - Japan being at the top of the list. Lelouch basically seems to have tagged "United States of" onto the front of the name of every country he intends to have join him. He's definitely ''not'' using the term "United States" correctly.
*** Heck, 'United States of India' would be a reasonable descriptor for RealLife, modern-day India. India is already divided into a number of autonomous states, which have about the same status as the states of America and Australia, the oblasts of Russia, and the provinces of China and Canada, plus many of them have their own languages. When India gained independence, they just decided to go with 'Republic of India' instead. 'United States of Japan', however, makes no sense at all.
** Maybe the Ryukyu Kingdom, which Japan annexed in 1879? Maybe the Ainu in Code Geass have their own autonomous republic, like the inuit's Nunavut in Canada? Sakhalin? Parts of Korea? Micronesia? Nauru? Marshall Islands? There's a lot of possibilities, really, considering that Code Geass follows a different timeline, and that Japan historically controlled a vast empire in Asia and Oceania during the post-WW1-period.
** The United States moniker is simply used as a reference to the original name for the United Nations. The US already had that name, so they went with UN. Japan should be called the ''United State of Japan'' or ''The State of Japan''. It's just a mistranslation. The USJ is supposed to be a constituent state of the new confederate United Nations that Lulu planned to establish; he wasn't the one using it wrong, the translators/writers were.
** [[{{Synaesthetic}} This troper]] always figured it was nothing more than a ShoutOut to the American Revolution--a colony of the British Empire declaring its independence and fighting a war to that effect. Since Area 11/Japan is a colony of the Holy Empire of Britannia, it makes sense. I doubt it has anything to do with the impotent RealLife United Nations.
** The term the Japanese use for "United States" actually means something closer to "Republic". It doesn't actually mean that there are any states involved.
* This is probably just bad translation, since I was watching a fan-subbed version, but Lelouch mentions that Kirihara was called "Benedict Kirihara" by the Japanese people due to his (supposed) role as an accomplace to Britanian colonization. In a world where America lost the revolution, it seems unlikely that the name Benedict Arnold would still be synonimous with "traitor."
** He could have still been a traitor, just a really lousy one. It's possible that he ended up betraying Britannia to America, resulting in his unpopularity. In our Britain and Canada he is often treated with a positive historical viewpoint, while in America he is the big Traitor.
** I saw the English dub and I don't recall any mention of Benedict. You probably just had a dodgy fansub.
** The nickname is simply "Kirihara the Traitor"; that fansub was definitely taking liberties.
* Bismarck's swordfight with Suzaku in episode 20. Why didn't the "live on" command just make Suzaku run away to begin with? Was Bismarck using his geass or not (if not, why did his right eye light up; if so, what was the point of the eyes sewn shut)? How was he able to use his ''sword'' as a ''baseball bat'' without cutting Suzaku in two? Most importantly, though, is the way it ends: Bismarck has Suzaku defeated and at his mercy, declares his intention to kill him, and then the scene cuts away, and when it comes back Bismarck is...on the phone? How'd that happen? "Hang on, I gotta take this." And then there's the setup for the fight itself: 1. Suzaku thinks the best way to assassinate someone is to make a big speech about despair and sin and all, giving someone time to move in to block your strike (or was Bismarck just BehindTheBlack the whole time? That's really what it seems like), and 2. ''Charles was already immortal'', so RuleOfFunny means that Bismarck should have just stood back and left Suzaku to just stab the emperor a bunch of times while Chuck sighs and just lumbers over to the gate.
%% I have no idea why I put this much thought into this.
** To be frank, quite a few things about that episode didn't make sense. Instead of going directly for the Emperor, Lelouch spent a lot of time geassing soldiers and wreaking havoc in the Britannian military... why? Just to make a dramatic appearance? The whole thing with Marianne suddenly restoring C.C.'s memories looks like ScotchTape. The Black Knights charge after hearing the news of Lelouch's diversion, leading up to... absolutely nothing. I guess that was among the parts that suffered the most from the compression of the second half of R2, leading to all unresolved issues in the Britannia vs. Black Knights story being dropped to make way for the Zero Requiem arc. But to answer some specific questions: 1) Bismarck stepped away from Suzaku when Lelouch made his over-the-top appearance. 2) This is Suzaku we're talking about. "Covert" is not about him. He can't kill someone without first making a dramatic speech about how wrong that person is.
*** The soldiers were there to stop people like Bismarck and the crew of the Great Britannia from interfering. Because they were right there, and Lelouch has no chance in hell of defeating them.
* When did this show forget that Cornelia is evil? She's ''evil''! She is shown throughout the first season as doing nothing but bad things. All she has is her MoralityPet sister, and that doesn't make up for all her actions. And yet you wouldn't think she was a bad person by the end of R2.
** She's not evil. She's ruthless. Fair difference there.
*** She goes past simply ruthless when she kills civilians (who she treats like crap because they're Elevens) just to reach the rebels.
*** Some of this stuff is just because it's policy. Cornelia was wishing for Euphemia to become Empress so that she would reform Brittaina's policies, and was against using Damocles to just indiscriminately kill innocent people. She's not really acting on her own beliefs in the first season, her plans until the SAZ incident are somewhat obviously to protect Euphemia until her own point in the lineage comes up, then stand aside and let Euphy rule.
*** Rewatch season 1. She didn't even flinch when she went through with her atrocious actions, and [[YouRebelScum was a habitual]] [[FantasticRacism racial slur slinger]] while she was at it. R2 was simply a mixed case of her refocusing herself on taking down the Geass Cult, and her former characterizations and acts [[DependingOnTheWriter being swept aside]]. [[KarmaHoudini She never does repent or atone for her acts, and is one of the reasonably happy survivors at the end in spite of that, sadly.]]
*** Not to mention things like forcing Suzaku to exterminate the JLF despite their readiness to surrender, and later, to execute Tohdoh.
*** Lelouch has done things like that too in order get his goals accomplished. Recall when he blew up a shipload of allies? Obliterated nearby towns in order to win battles? Cornelia merely doesn't have Lelouch's desire for good PR. Her goals focus on the continued success of her nation; she reconsidered after the Euphemia incident.
*** Lelouch stained his own hands quite a lot, and he geassed Britannians to do nasty things, but he never made the Black Knights do something that would go against their beliefs, be it with Geass or force. Cornelia, on the other hand, wanted a Japanese officer under her command to execute his compatriot and old friend for no reason.
*** That, and Lelouch still had the moral upper ground in spite of his methods, not to mention that he had been through more adversity in his life. While Cornelia sought to uphold the Social Darwinist rule of Britannia, even to the point where she yelled at Euphie of all people for opposing it, Lelouch opposed it. Rewatch Stage 7, where Lelouch flashes back to his childhood where his father Charles declares him dead for confronting him about the death of Marianne and crippling of Nunnally, and Cornelia ordering the massacre of Saitama ghetto civilians and killing terrorists who have already surrendered, for basic differences in morality. And as I've stated on other pages elsewhere here on TVTropes, while Lelouch, though admittedly by choice and even questionable means at that point, sacrifices himself in the end for the greater good in atonement for the destruction he has caused, Cornelia never appropriately suffers or repents for her purely barbaric actions, thus making her one of the show's biggest Karma Houdinis.
*** I'm begining to suspect that the writers put some sort of spell on the anime that deliberatly made Lelouch seem more appealing than any other of the many characters who commit attrocities. It seems like whenever one of Lelouch's evil opposers is bashed, it will be brought up that Lelouch himself has commited unspeakable evil and the response will be "Yes he has, BUT...(insert claims that it was all for the greater good or any other reason that makes Lelocuh seem morally superior to everyone else.) Why fans can't just admit that Lelouch is a psychotic, corrupted, borderline evil ByronicHero and still love him for it will always be a mystery to me.
*** They did put a spell on him. It's called ''making him the protagonist''. Naturally people are going to look more favorably on his actions than they do others. Just to invoke your "Yes he has, BUT" analogy, people do this because for all the horrible things he does (I won't go into the final arc, that a whole different story), it is against an enemy that is a hundred times worse. When you go to the other side for people like Suzaku, you have someone who's trying to be righteous while enforcing the law these monsters set up. As for "psychotic, corrupted, borderline evil", only the last part is, self-admittedly I might add, the least bit accurate. Lelouch is hardly psychotic, and corruption applies to almost everyone in the cast.
*** But being the protagonist or focused character does not automatically make him the best person in the series. If that were so, than all Kira supporters in the DeathNote fandom would be justified. While it's true that Lelouch's enemies like his father, mother, and half-brother are all worse than he is, it doesn't mean that ''all'' of the horrible extremist things Lelouch does in his rebellion against them that effects or destroys innocent lives are justified or even nessecary, despite what Lelouch may think. And I never once mentioned Suzaku either (I don't really like him). Oh, and ''not psychotic?'' The guy breaks into hysterical, over-the-top maniacal laughter and gives several [[PsychoticSmirk psychotic smirks]] on many occasions. What do you call that?
*** I call it [[LargeHam ham]], and it tastes good. There's a difference between using the smirk and actually being psychotic. No, not everything he does is justified, and I don't claim otherwise. But as I said, being the protagonist is going to deflect critism, or at least soften the blows. As is pointed out, despite these horrible things (not all of which are even intentional, mind you, or even that bad in the case of Narita), Lelouch does often have the moral high ground, which is why trying to paint him as some completely out of it monster just doesn't fly.
*** Not saying it's bad to be a LargeHam, but he'd have to be a little bit psychotic if he feels the need to do it so often. And I don't like to see Lelouch painted as a CompleteMonster either. He's probably my favorite character. I just don't think that being the protagonist is a good enough excuse to gloss over his borderline villanious actions and behaviour. If that were done in canon, it'd lead to a DesignatedHero, and if done by fans, it's disrespectful to a character whose major character arc involves his soul being corrupted by an evil power he uses. And it's also annoying how so many rabid Lulufans paint characters like Suzaku, Ougi, or even Kallen when she was against Lelouch in an insanely overly-negative light just because they oppose the protagonist. A good viewer should look at things from other characters' points of view, even the evil ones.
*** Kallen is a valid argument. Suzaku on the other hand deserves some sort of criticism as he is downright self-contradictory, and does things too often to fulfill a death wish of his, which, combined with his ridiculous PlotArmor, make him an unnecessary SpannerInTheWorks who ruins things for Lelouch just when he could get favorable results. Perhaps nowhere is this more evident than in R2 18, when he accidentally sets off FLEIJA on Tokyo because he was too stubborn to retreat from battle. Neither of these two, however, compare to Ohgi, who, originally the OnlySaneMan amongst the Black Knights, loses the plot once he falls for Villetta, which causes him to do some very irrational things, no more so than [[SwissMessenger when he along with Villetta mindlessly back up Schneizel's questionable claims against Lelouch and ends up causing the betrayal]] that eventually leads Lelouch down the path of the Zero Requiem, when Lelouch might have otherwise chosen something less-bloody and self-sacrificing. And in spite of all of this, Ohgi and Villetta get the happiest ending, while Lelouch is dead and seen as the worst person ever.
*** In a perfect world, maybe. A lot of Lelouch's misdeeds were rather needless (killing the JLF just to get a shot at Cornelia, cult massacre). I'd argue against him being corrupted by that power. He's quick to use it, but he's also inhumanly restricted when it comes to putting to use (up until Turn 19, anyway). Most people given such power would not be so careful in their usage. What corrupts him is the parade of ridiculous DeusExMachina that foil and ruin his life. As for painting other characters in a negative light, such is the fandom.
*** He's careful in using it because he's smart. I'd still say that he was indeed corrupted by the power somewhat (as indicated by his immediate facial change from shock to PsychoticSmirk when he realized what kind of power he'd recieved), and many of the DeusAngstMachina that traumatizes him are usually brought on by himself. You know, an unfortunate side effect of his terrorism and rebellions. And I know FanDumb is the easy explaination, but I'm still disturbed by [[MisAimedFandom the sheer number of fans who seem to share the same views of "Lulu is all good and always in the right, and anyone who opposes him are complete pricks who are always in the wrong."]]
*** On the note of his first PsychoticSmirk context is everything. He's backed into a corner by an entire squad of guys who basically told him "Hi, you've seen this girl so time to die". He suddenly gets a power not only to escape, but to turn the tables on them. Honestly tell me you wouldn't brandish such a gleeful "oh you are so fucked now" smirk in that situation!
*** Lelouch is not the only one to blame for what happens to him. Whether through sheer stupidity, simple ignorance, or deliberate malice, half the horrible crap that happens to him is at best tangentially related to his own actions. If you're going to place blame, spread it as is appropriate.
*** He's not to blame for everything, true. I was meaning that he usually gets himself into his own messes that he has to get himself (and anyone else caught up in them) out of. It's part of being [[VillainProtagonist who]] [[ByronicHero he]] [[TheAtoner is.]]
*** I think usually is laying it a little thick. The second half of R2 was practically a TraumaCongaLine for Lelouch. In spite of his errors, at least he was trying, only for various factors, including Schneizel, Kanon, and a certain dumb struck by love character screwed it up for him. Then he was [[DespairEventHorizon too far gone to really do so anymore]].
*** I feel like I'm late for the party, but what were all the problems people had with R2 when it first aired? I have my own problems with parts of R2, but no series is perfect. Is it just the stuff on the DarthWiki/WallBanger page?
** A lot of viewers felt that the more enjoyable elements of the first season went out the window in favor of escalating overwrought drama moments, hence the "Trainwreck" meme. Not that I agree, of course, but I had to listen to a LOT of whining during the airing.
*** The way I see it, CodeGeass was always a shallow, incomprehensable, and overblown anime; combining the giant mechas and war stories of Gundam with the Xanatos Gambits of Death Note in a convulted way. But the first season was at least well put together and could be really fun to watch due to [[LargeHam hamminess]], NarmCharm, and [[MagnificentBastard Zero's antics]]. R2 cranked all of the series' flaws up to the max (as well as adding new flaws like LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, CharacterDerailment, and contrived plot twists) and the story became less SoBadItsGood and more [[DarthWiki/WallBanger head-bangingly stupid.]] There's a reason almost everyone sees it as a horribly mangled Trainwreck. Personally, I found it's finale to be spectacular and a fitting conclusion to the story but that doesn't excuse the rest up R2 being so nonsensical. It's kinda like {{Naruto}}, actually. A flawed series but the first half is superior to their timeskipped second half.
*** I love how some people say "''almost everyone''" when they really mean "''almost everyone I know who agrees with me''" because, whether you like it or not, Code Geass remains a popular show and most viewers enjoyed it. Just look at all the polls. Not that I place much value on whatever the relative or absolute majority thinks, either way, but there are plenty of people who like the show even with all its flaws. And actually, it's been conveniently forgotten that the whole "trainwreck" meme originated at some point during the airing of the first season. It just became more popular thanks to all the problems in R2, including the rushed pacing, increasingly over-the-top stunts and the lack of explanations. Still, a lot of the utter hatred for R2 has become so exaggerated to the point of being irrational and unwarranted: Something that you didn't like happened? ''RAGE''. Even if there is a valid explanation of some sort, you may not care because it's already angered you. It seems some didn't even try to pay attention after a certain point out of disgust or anger, which doesn't make for good analysis. That only creates endless debates about the show's flaws, both real and perceived, in an environment of intolerance and mutual disrespect. Personally, I admit that Code Geass was never particularly deep and R2 was disappointing, in and of itself, but the overall story still had some interesting themes and characters that made it worth watching. It's a pity that a lot of the original potential was wasted, but I just hope the next Code Geass project suffers from less problems and manages to be enjoyable without so much controversy.
** R2 is a the topic of one of CG's biggest examples of a split fanbase. See, most people can readily admit that Code Geass R2 had many problems, but the split comes from whether or not you were able to still enjoy R2. Many can't for its shortcomings, others still love and enjoy it in spite of its shortcomings. I for example loved 2, plotholes and all. I wasn't bothered by the giant cast and in fact, the intoduction of so many new characters pleased me pesonally. Half the isses are actual technical and quiality flaws, and the other half are more a matter of personal taste, and it's the latter category that splits the base.
* What was Emperor Chuck's plan anyway? He was going to kill God? And make it so nobody could lie? What does that mean? Was he going to make everyone into a HiveMind? Make it so everyone lost their imaginations? He doesn't even have that kind of power, he can only effect memory.
** Geass influences the mind. Using the Thought Elevator, he can access every mind everywhere. What he was going to do... isn't made very clear. Merge everybody into a HiveMind, perhaps; it doesn't seem beyond the power of Geass. (Just make everyone mindreaders, like Mao, and let the elevator do the legwork of connecting them.)
* So is that girl doomed to make those marks on that forever? Is she stuck going to that wall no matter what for the rest of her life? If she wants to travel abroad, is she compelled to travel back to that wall?
** Yes. Her parents think she's sleepwalking.
* At the end of R1, the Guren lost its Radiation Wave arm in a fight with the Lancelot. How did it get it back by the beginning of R2? Rakshata was off the radar. Did the Black Knights have a spare?
** Rakshata didn't drop off the rader ''immediately''. The Black Knights probably didn't break apart cleanly; it's not outside the realm of reason that she fixed the arm before she left.
*** Alternately, they took the arm from the Pre-Production Gekka from ''Lost Colors'' and slapped it onto the Guren.
*** The above, if not necessarily accurate to the show, is pretty much what happened. Look at the arm in R1 vs R2. The former has a five-fingered claw. The latter has three regular fingers. It's a pallette-swapped version of the Gekka arm.
* So like, what was Gino's deal anyway? At first it looked like he was going to be the happier counterpart to Suzaku, but that didn't go anywhere. Then it looked like he was going to be the one figuring out the connection between Lelouch and Zero, but that didn't go anywhere. ''Then'' it looked like something was possibly going on between him and Kallen, but nothing ever came of it. '''Then''' it looked like he was going to be the focal point of people feeling conflicted by the new regime change, but nothing ever came of it. And he didn't get an ending. So why did he keep appearing?
* How come all of the Ashford girls are eagerly telling each other they all have dates arranged with Lelouch, even though it never seems to cross their minds that none of them have a monopoly over Lelouch? Shirley is the only one who's genuinely shocked and angered; are none of the girls furious that Lelouch appears to be cheating on all of them (although it's really Sayoko who's responsible).
** Considering he's canonically got his own fanclub among the girls of Ashford, they're probably not at all surprised at the multiple dates.
*** Also, his father has 108 wives. Sayoko set up 108 dates. See some similarities?
* What is it about Lelouch that attracts Shirley so much, besides his looks?
** In the first season Shirley relates a story where Lelouch witnessed a car accident caused by a young man who started berating the old couple he ran into; Lelouch's response was to get the jerk's car towed, but he did it without boasting or mocking, as if he considered standing up for the old folks to be the natural thing to do. As Suzaku himself surmises, Shirley fell for Lelouch then because she saw that he's actually a caring person beneath his aloof exterior.
* Near the end, after being shot, did Cornelia actually say that ''Schneizel'' would have made a good emperor in a time of peace? Just because peacetime would have meant that he ''probably'' wouldn't have had any particular reason to slaughter millions of civilians for kicks? Was she ''totally off her rocker?!''
** WordOfGod says that Schneizel's biggest flaw is lack of ambition; if a good idea comes along, he'll pretty much say "LetsGoWithThat", but he doesn't come up with anything amazing on his own. Perhaps Cornelia was simply lamenting the fact that the situation had resulted in Schneizel, ostensibly a good-hearted person, deciding that the best thing to do was force the world into peace at nuke-point.
* What bugs me is the fact that countless people, including quite a few on this site apparently, feel that you can foist the blame for the destruction of Tokyo entirely upon Lelouch because of the "Live!" Geass. When he first cast the Geass, it was quite literally a last-ditch attempt to prevent his and Suzaku's deaths without violating his free will, AND an attempt to stop a person whom he loved like a brother from trying to get himself killed because of his self-abasement. How the heck was he supposed to know that over a year later, Suzaku would have his hands on a bomb capable of destroying a large section of Tokyo? And before people cite his enraged orders for Kallen to kill Suzaku, A) he wasn't exactly in the best of moods after being nearly arrested due to (what he thought was) a betrayal, B) Kallen was probably going to try to kill him anyhow, and C) he had no way of knowing Suzaku would "decide" that the best way to live would be to use FLEIJA as a "warning shot". In all honesty, just like there are people who claim he's a DracoInLeatherPants, most of the people with this attitude seem to think he's a RonTheDeathEater.
** Something to add to that: by this point in the story, Suzaku A) knows he has this Geass, B) knows what triggers it, and C) does B in spite of A. This is well before the Tokyo battle. He even makes a point of complaining to Lelouch about how awful not getting to die like he wants to is during their failed reconciliation. So, one failed reconciliation later, he decides the nuke would make a good threat. Suzaku is no strategist, so we'll forgive his blatant ignorance of how a threat works (the other guy needs to be convinced you can do what you say). Then Kallen comes in and proves, even before fighting Suzaku, that she will absolutely rape anyone and anything that challenges her shiny new death machine. Of course, Suzaku must obviously challenge her (then again, Gino wanted to as well, so clearly logic is not important to pilots). Suzaku then goes to pick a fight with her, when she was expressly guarding Zero and wouldn't have spared him a glance if he'd just backed off. He's even told to retreat, but that suggestion is ignored, despite the people telling him to do so being the ones that built the death machine. A short round of ass-kicking later (which it must be noted is mostly Kallen blocking/breaking everything he hits her with), he's on the ropes. So what does he do? B, mentioned above, while carrying the nuke and having already rationalized it as his one hope. To be specific, he drops his guard so she can kill him. Suzaku has only himself to blame for what happened, because if he had kept fighting he wouldn't have had an arm to fire the weapon and kill all those people. Not that Lelouch doesn't share some of the blame for not listening, but it's definitely not the responsibility of him alone.
*** It's not the sole responsibility of ''either'' of them - they're both to blame. Suzaku was incredibly stupid in what he did, but he ''never'' would have fired it if he hadn't been geassed. And Lelouch was suffering his traditional case of losing IQ points because he's emotional. That said, given the FLEIJA has never been used before, neither of them had any idea how bad the consequences could be - and until now, the "Live" geass had never made Suzaku kill anyone. It was a tragedy that neither intended or wanted, it's both their faults equally, and so they both decided to pay the price in Zero Requiem.
*** Suzaku was given a very vivid description, and even a precise yield, of the bomb he was carrying, so he was well aware of what it would do if he ever fired it. Still, you're right that both suffer blame for the incident.
*** There's a difference between knowing theoretically what something is capable of, and actually seeing it in action. And Suzaku never was the smartest guy around. But to be blunt I think the entire debate comes down to people on one side putting all the blame on Lelouch, people on the other putting it all on Suzaku, and the instant FlameWar that ensued.
*** Suzaku at least had a fair idea of the result, even if words can't do it justice. If you want to sum it up, Lelouch's crime is ignorance and Suzaku's crime is negligence. Lelouch was (understandably) not willing to listen to Suzaku's then-outrageous claims about a weapon of mass destruction. Suzaku (again understandably) is reckless in his efforts to bring Zero to justice. Again, I agree on that last bit.
*** I wonder what it signifies, that the characters in question are more willing to accept the blame should be shared than their fanbases?
*** That's an interesting point, but rationalizing the actions of a character you like is basic nature, especially since it's somewhat difficult to admit that a character you like is morally wrong in one situation or in many. This series is especially rife with this, as almost every character of importance has committed misdeeds for various reasons and with various consequences. Given the nature of the moral conflict, people are thus likely to sympathize with one side and come down on the other(s) for their flaws while glossing over the flaws of the ones they sympathize with.
*** There's also the question of how people's actions related to their commands are controlled; for example, in order to give Lelouch her Knightmare, Viletta also hands him the key and tells him the code to activate it. The main issue here is how much Suzaku thought the FLEIJA was necessary for his survival; if he thought that he would be put into a situation where using it was the only way to survive, then he bears responsibility for firing it. However, it's difficult to predict what a Geass like "Live" would make him do, or how much danger he would need to be in before it kicks in, so it's possible that he didn't think it would trigger or thought he would do something else. As for Lelouch, it's possible he was hoping Kallen would kill Suzaku before he realized there was no other way out of his situation. The whole situation is quite complicated and thus easy to rationalize if you're sympathetic toward Lelouch or Suzaku.
*** He had already rationalized it as his one hope ("even if it means death, I won't fire it, this is atonement" about sums up his inner monologue), so he basically shot himself in the foot. Also, while it would normally be difficult to predict exactly what it would do, he had already narrowed down his options to one at that point. Lelouch flat out didn't believe Suzaku regrading the nuke, and Suzaku was obviously not going to beat Kallen. The command isn't even an issue. As he saw it, Suzaku couldn't do anything to save himself. He was wrong.
*** The nuking was the fault of Prince Schneizel. He ordered Suzaku to deploy with it and he allowed his bridge officers to encourage Suzaku to use it.
*** Schneizel told Suzaku that as a Knight of the Round, he was under no obligation to listen him, and the decision to fire F.L.E.I.J.A. was therefore his own. Schneizel [[BatmanGambit simply counted on Suzaku firing it off, knowing his nature, and goading him into it in a roundabout way]].
*** Schneizel also talked Nina into developing it and gave her the funding and what-not to build it. Oh, and he had Kanon interrupt the Kururugi shrine meet-up, when Lelouch and Suzaku were about to work together, ''and'' do so in such a way that made Lelouch lose all the trust he had in Suzaku as well as playing on Suzaku's guilt/responsibility issues.
* How does Lelouch put on contact lenses so effortlessly? From what I've seen with people who use contact lenses and such, they don't just stick it onto their eye without a mirror.
** It was asked above, and a pretty sensible answer was giving: Lelouch's eyes are ''huge'' so it's not really a problem for him.
* Just a li'l thing: when Mao is addressing CC in the fairground he mentions how he wants to run away with her to a house he has in Australia. But Mao is only about seventeen or eighteen years old, and he has the disposition of a six-year-old boy. Houses are expensive to build; it's not clear that Mao works and he never gives any clues as to the source of income. And even if he did work, there isn't really the possibility for big money in jobs that hire older teenagers. So how could he get himself a house ''overseas''?! This troper's beginning to think it's all a delusion brought about by his general craziness.
** Theres a few ways. One, blackmail some contractor with the skeletons in his closet. Mao could probably have had a decent, two-person cabin built that way. He could also have built it himself, but then it would probably be a crapsack place to live. Third, find a house that's already built and talk the residents into suicide, or just outright kill them.
*** [[http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951b6aa0be011b7a6b0afc0175 He got his gun this way]].
* Did anyone else with the the advance knowledge that Lelouch and Shirley die find the whole ShipToShipCombat completely pointless?
* How was Suzaku able to pursue a career as an active duty soldier while still in high school? I'd imagine it would have been a full-time job.
** He was absent a lot, and wasn't even schooled until Euphemia threw him in.
* Why does everyone hate ''Shirley'' so much?! I realize that some of her naive behavior can be annoying (I personally hate the NaiveEverygirl trope and the {{Moe}} [[TheIngenue Ingenue]] trope) but she's a frickin' [[TheWoobie Woobie]] [[TheMessiah Messiah]] and there are still people who hate her so much they're willing to [[FanWank wank]] all over the faces of [[PsychopathicManchild Mao]] and [[{{Tykebomb}} Rolo]] just for [[{{Understatement}} giving her a hard time]]! [[FlatWhat WHAT?!]] Lemme repeat: WOOBIE! MESSIAH!
** Some people either see her as an annoyingly ClingyJealousGirl, blame her for having no clue what's going on and nearly getting Lelouch killed for it in the first episode, or both.
* Given that Lelouch uses a vocal distorter as Zero, to the point that Kallen, who talked to both regularly, and even had a conversation with "Zero" with his mask off and never even thought they sounded similar, why would the black knights immediately recognize Lelouch's voice in a decidedly less-hammy tone than Zero delivers? Zero, leader of the black knights and "Lelouch trying desperately and sadly to get Suzaku to protect Nunnally" don't sound very similar, so wouldn't the Black Knights have been bewildered by something that sounded like a shitty imitation of Zero's voice with the wrong inflection being presented as evidence?
** It sounds close enough for them to connect the dots, and at that point they were looking for a scapegoat anyway. Plus they didn't buy the recording at first. It took Ohgi backing Schneizel up to seal the deal.
** The similarities between Zero's and Lelouch's voices bugged this troper throughout both seasons. Granted there are some differences in tone, but essentially anyone who was paying attention and had heard both Lelouch and Zero speak (like Kallen and Shirley had) should have been able to immediately make the connection. That should have been a dead giveaway. In addition, unless Lelouch had a new voice alteration system installed on the mask [[spoiler: before his death]], then there is NO WAY Zerozaku is going to sound anything like Lelouch did. So unless they are fully prepared to accept a "new" Zero, wouldn't the Black Knights, or for that matter the entire world who'd been following Zero/Lelouch's exploits, become instantly suspicious?
*** Actually, when she's suspicious, Kallen admits to herself that she doesn't have the hearing required to get a good match. And that's before the voice modulator. Throw in speaking to both Lelouch and Zero in the same room, and thinking that they're the same requires some really severe out-of-the-box thinking.
** The vocal distorter he used was a piece of cloth over his mouth not the best vocal disguise
* Why, why, why did Kallen have to get captured in Turn 10 of R2? (Because of which, made that whole episode a massive spiral of hate that doesn't make much sense.) I mean, I can understand trying to make it tougher for Lelouch and the Black Knights to continue on, but why did it have to be for 8 episodes? Hell, her upgraded Guren Flight Enabled got a total of TWO uses, once in Turn 6 when it was introduced and in Turn 10 when it's captured, making it an almost pointless upgrade (bad pacing be damned, that shouldn't have occured). So they take her out of the fray for 8 episodes, have some pointless FetishFuel bondage (no thank you), Suzaku being a dick to her (later getting himself beat up, but even then that really wasn't anything special), almost (possibly) getting raped by the {{Twilight}} reject Lucanio, getting overall "I serve no point to the story" douchebag (if somebody blatently tries to make it clear he wants in a girl's pants, then he is a total douchbag) Gino's "attention", ALMOST getting assassinated by uber-bitch Alicia Lohmeyer, AND FINALLY getting out only to have the Black Knights betray Zero/Lelouch. I mean, Lelouch said "Oh I'm gonna rescue you Kallen" and forgot about her after 2-3 episodes and focused on the Geass Cult (making my least favorite arc and least favorite minor character/line in Kinoshita and his "THIS IS.... A MASSACRE!"). I mean, the manga handled this story way better in my opinion, thanks to no Knightmares, Kallen has no plot-device "Out of Power" and never gets captured, [[spoiler: Xing-Ke joins up with Zero after he crashes the wedding (presumably Geassed), he then proceeds to kill the Eunuchs like he did in the anime, afterwards Zero, C.C., and Kallen sing a peace treaty with the Chinese Federation and they up and leave]]. I mean, was there any other reason for it other than "We need the hottest character to make way for an unpopular Black Woman and a 13-Year old Pedobait crybaby, so lets get her captured and sort of forget about her! All the good shows do that!"
** To be fair to a few of those points, Lelouch explictly went back to Japan within the same episode because he needed to rescue her. That he did so while also planning a complete invasion is just his style. Lelouch forgetting about her for two-three episodes is fairly understandable given Shirley DIED right in front of him. And when it came down to it he had a solid plan for her rescue. It's a badly written series of events to be sure, but at least some of it is justified.
*** Lelouch didn't come back to Japan till Episode 11, and because of Sayoko's meddling, ended up messing with Shirley (Along with about the entire Female Student Population.) Along with the Filler-Knight and Rei-Ripoff being... themselves at the school, I guess that put plans to a halt. After Shirley had died, however, he didn't specifically need to take down the Geass Cult, he really could've waited until he had gotten Kallen back, and then taken down the Cult (Assumably going by the Manga story, where Kallen has no clue of it since it was kept secret from her.). But I will put most of the blame in Bad Writing. R2 was good and all, but the First season is just better written. I assume had the writing for R2 been similar to Season one's, had Kallen been captured she would've been rescued soon after her capture, allowing her to keep her ActionGirl status and not sink into FauxActionGirl Status for a chunk of the season, leaving other characters to * briefly* fill her place.
*** He was headed back in the same episode, specifically for the reason that Kallen needed rescue. He says so. That he gets there next episode is a matter of pacing, not procrastiation. Sayoko's meddling is not something he could have planned for and he couldn't very well ignore it. After Shirley died, he was griefstriken and looking to punish someone for it. You can't seriously expect him to behave logically in that situation when he never has before. The rest, as you say, is just bad writing.
*** I know that, But he couldn't have up and left the Chinese Federation with out the Shinkiro, or any knowledge that Kallen was handed over to the Britannians (Which didn't happen till Episode 11) I was just fixing an erroneous statement saying after Kallen got captured he just went to Area 11 again to save her. He had to finish the war against the Eunuchs first. Also, anybody find it humorous that after Diethard (Idiotically) suggests forgetting about their ''best'' pilot and leaving her to die. He has a bruise on his face afterwards? What happened there? I can only assume somebody (Maybe Ohgi) clocked him for saying that.
*** Diethard had a bruise? Never noticed.
* What happened in a few short months that Suzaku goes from being in over his head in an on-foot fight against Bismarck, to just annihilating the guy fairly effortlessly in a Knightmare even with the full effect of his geass?
** Simple. Must have been part of his going after results and using his Geass command as a cheat, rather than acting in spite of or against it.
** There's a big difference between those two fights. However superhuman Suzaku is, Bismarck is bigger, stronger, and faster than he is on foot. Suzaku was fighting a battle he could not win and damn well knew it. In their second fight, Suzaku was piloting a vastly superior Knightmare and the only reason Bismarck could even keep up is because he could see the future. Once Suzaku activated his Geass, he could push his Knightmare to the limits and render even seeing the future a useless skill.
* [[spoiler:Suzaku's "Live!" Geass order forces him to try to stay alive at all costs. Given what we know about it so far, doesn't that mean he'll have to try to obtain C.C.'s immortality eventually at any cost? ]]
** Suzaku's "Live!" Geass only activates when he A) has given up on living or B) is in mortal peril. Secondly, as [[spoiler:Shirley]] shows, the command cannot save someone from dying. So by the time he'd get to the point where his old age would activate it, he'd be far too old to do anything about it. Taking the Code requires not only having an actual Geass, but evolving it to a point where the transfer could take place. Moreover, he doesn't even know about the existence of the Code, so he wouldn't know that he '''could''' take C.C.'s immortality.
** Curious that Lelouch doesn't simply command 'Obey everything I ever tell you to do.' or something similar, to avoid his power's one-time-use syndrome.
*** Originally, Lelouch refrained from using it in this way because he doesn't actually like the idea of twisting other people's will to his own, and hence only gives short term commands. He starts to use his power to make people his full time slaves after the Black Knights betray him on the suspicion of doing so, at which point he crosses the DespairEventHorizon [[TheUnfettered and throws his inhibitions out the window]], [[spoiler:as he plans on [[DeathSeeker dying very soon]]]].
** If the Celts beat back the Roman invasion, why do they come to call themselves Britannia, the Latin name for Britain? That's like America defeating Germany then changing its name to Ameri''k''a. Not exactly the most obvious of outcomes.
*** We don't know enough about the history one way or another. Maybe the world adopted the Latin name because previously, the British Isles didn't really have a single, cohesive name. Besides, you'd prefer 'Albion'?
*** Britannia is also the name for a (relatively) popular anthropomorphic version of Britain. Like Uncle Sam... but female.
*** If you read the [[AllThereInTheManual Collector's Booklets]] it states that the references to the Celts defeating the Romans and the new Imperial Calendar date to the first Emperor of the "Britannian" Dynasty, Ricardo von Britannia in 1813. Since he was not a member of the previous Tudor Dynasty, all of the references to the King of the Celts was probably propaganda to make him seem more like a legitimate heir to the throne. The real place where the history of Code Geass seems to split from our world (other than the existence of [[GreenRocks sakuradite]]) is the birth of Henry IX, the son of Queen Elizabeth I.
*** And on top of that, it claims that there were 98 Emperors of Britannia. [[spoiler: 100, if you count Lelouch and Nunnally.]] If that were even remotely true, Britannian Emperors remain in power for 20 years on average over the course of the 2000 years since the supposed founding of Britannia. Charles is 35 years older than Schneizel. So unless dying early and leaving everything to your sibling is common... yeah. Especially compared to real life British royalty.
*** Considering that England/Britain had 53 Kings/Queens/Lords Protector/Emperors/Empresses between 925 and 1837, that's not particularly over-the-top. Even since then it's not that far out - Victoria was Queen 64 years, Elizabeth II 58 and counting, in between them? 4 Kings in 51 years.
* While Lelouch's MemoryGambit to beat Mao and save Nunnally was totally awesome, did he even actually need to play the game to engage the deactivation switch? In theory he could have reached up and slapped his end of the scale and that would be that. Now it might have gotten him shot and Mao may have been lying about it deactivating the bomb but it still seems odd the thought never crossed Lelouch's mind.
** The second it did, Mao would slap his first. Boom.
** How do we know Mao didn't setup both to set off the bomb?

[[WMG:Code Geass and alternate history]]
* Okay, so this timeline starts off with Ceasar not conquering Britain. One can reasonably assume that Britain will stay Celtic possibly indefinitely and that, given that the butterfly effect will mean differant Roman screwing around in the chaotic tribal stew of ancient Germania, any tribe which overruns Britain need not even be Germanic, let alone Saxon. And we have a Duke of Essex, that is, a Roman Military Leader of the East Saxons ''how'',exactly? Let's not even start on Queen Bess and Napoleon Bonie being born and ruling after many centuries of changed history. According to the purist interpretation, no-one will ever be born the same after history changes (there are a zillion sperm vying for the place here). According to the flexible interpretation... the Tudors won't come to power and there won't be a French Revolution as we know it, leaving aside fathers and mothers never having an opportunity to meet. I have several times added a short and polite example to the page for "DidNotDoTheResearch". For all its merits as a series, CG has simply not looked up how history and alternate history are supposed to work. Can somebody tell me why these keep being deleted?
** While I agree in principle, you're arguably being very picky about it. It's not totally implausible that things would turn out to be very similar but still divergent enough to get the world of Code Geass that we know rather than the real world. It's a classic case of [[AlternateHistory alternate history]]. Sure, the probability of so many things staying the same isn't high, but it isn't ''zero''. The writers said that it went that way, so it went that way. It may be implausible, but it's not impossible. They already have crazy stuff like magical powers which can compel people to do whatever you want. Code Geass' alternate history is nothing in comparison to that.
** I'm being prickly because it really does defy common sense. Without a Roman Empire in Britain, you wont get English Dukes, even if by some incredible convergence you still get England. Magical powers are something about which I can willingly suspend my disbelief. Of course with slightly more difficulty I can suspend my alternate-history disbelief and enjoy the show, but what's bugging me is not so much the error as the fact that my attempts to politely point it out being swept away by overly zealous fans.
*** Well, I certainly concur that if you were to actually go back in time and somehow alter history at the point that Code Geass' universe diverges from ours and make history diverge in the same way at that point, the odds of us getting anything like the alternate history of Code Geass are astronomically low. The farther back in time the divergence, the greater the differences will be by the time you get to the point in history that Code Geass takes place at. So, the odds are definitely against it, but it's not necessarily ''impossible'' (unlike Geass and the like since that's pure fantasy regardless of how cool it is). However, it's quite typical of [[AlternateHistory alternate histories]] to diverge fairly significantly in a number of ways and yet have a lot of the same people with a lot of stuff the same. The AlvinMaker books are a great example. So, Code Geass' use of AlternateHistory isn't exactly abnormal, but it ''is'' probably a bit unique in how far back it goes. Usually such histories are a couple of hundred years at most while the point at which Code Geass' history diverges from ours is at least two millenia ago. So, arguably, Code Geass is a bit of an extreme case. But still, I don't think that it's unreasonable for the writers to say that that's how it went. Of course, I do think that the whole AlternateHistory aspect of it is one of the coolest things in Code Geass. In any case, I think that you have a very valid point: Code Geass' AlternateHistory is unlikely to the point of absurdity if you're really looking at the likelihood of such a thing happening if you were to alter time at the point which Code Geass' history diverges from ours. However, while it's highly improbable, it's not impossible, and it works quite well.
*** Ahem. England was established by the Angle and Saxon settlers - the name ''England'' is a corruption of ''Angleland''. The Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes who arrived from central Europe about a century after the fall of the Roman Empire; it's entirely possible they integrated themselves into the culture, rather like the Viking settlers in Ireland, thus allowing the descendants of the Celtic super-king to remain on the throne even if England shifts to being Germanic. The dukes could have been introduced some time later by French invaders. The national language of Britannia seems to be modern English, indicating that its history was predominantly Germanic and French rather than Celtic.
** It's quite simple: the occupation of Britain by Rome was in no way an important historical event. Julius Caesar was just being macho; the actual occupation didn't happen for a good while after the "official" declaration of it's addition to the Empire. Therefore, the rest of history could still happen as it ended up going down (right to Elizabeth I's son). The Anglo-Saxons invaded since they had established a foot-hold as protectors/mercenaries for the Celts, who protected them from the northern tribes up in Scotland.
* Why is Britannia called Britannia? The PointOfDivergence was supposedly the Celts repelling the Roman invasion[[hottip:* :Yes, I know the original POD was the appearance of sakuradite, but you know what I mean]], yet ''Britannia'' is the name the Romans gave to the province consisting of the island of Britain. Shouldn't it be called, um, something else?
** [[AssPull Bismarck's Geass can see into alternate realities]] [[EpilepticTrees and he saw the name Britannia and told Chuck about it. He decided it was awesome, and so renamed the Empire. This is why everyone's shouting "All Hail Britannia" so much, to drum the new name into their heads.]] [[HandWave Bismarck's Geass seeing alternate realities combined with Chuck's love for random historical revisionism is also the explanation for all other alternate-history-related wonks]]. (This was all going to be explained in the original plan for the series, but then Bismarck's role was shortened to "I know what's going on and am trying to convince whoever's in charge not to be dumb, blurrgh I am daed")
*** Heh. In all seriousness though, I'd speculate that even if the Romans were defeated, the name might have remained and was popularized somehow at a later date...or just because.
** It's called Britannia for RuleOfCool. MST3KMantra, my friend; They only wanted to use a name that would differentiate Britain from Britannia. Also, it wouldn't be the first time a country adopted the foreign name for their country as a translation to their country's name in their own language. Japan is called Nippon/[[SpellMyNameWithAnS Nihon]], but will refer to themselves as Japan when speaking in English. The Celts probably just took on the name to refer to their new Empire as a whole, rather than give it a name they couldn't agree on.
** This is actually incredibly easy to explain. There are plenty of historical examples of groups taking the name there enemies have given to them and using it for themselves. For the best real world example, English soldiers called American revolutionaries "yankees" as an insult. American troops liked the name so much they adopted it. So Romans go to attack the barbaric Britannians and lose. Britannian becomes synonymous with barbarism and the Britannians adopt the name as an insult (i.e. "Nyah nyah, we're just a bunch of barbarians and we kicked your ass".)
* The fact that Napoleon was more successful in this timeline bugs me. From what I've read, the American Revolution failed because Benjamin Franklin betrayed the rebels, which certainly makes sense. However, the French Revolution apparently still occurred; furthermore, Napoleon managed to conquer Britain and even more of Europe. In the real world, France aided the rebels in the American Revolution in order to weaken Britain. However, the country was nearly bankrupted as a result of paying for soldiers, ships, supplies, etc., which led to the peasants starving, which was the main factor that led to the Revolution in the first place. If the American Revolution never happened, France stays wealthy and the peasants have no pressing need to rebel; hence, no French Revolution, and no opportunity for Napoleon to seize power.
** As I understand it, the revolution still ''happened''; it just didn't succeed. So France pumped massive amounts of money into an ultimately futile cause, sounds like grounds for rebellion to me. (Alternatively: Napoleon had Geass too, and used ''that'' to seize power).
*** ThisTroper has just been following the logical theory when it came to historical events in CodeGeass: "He (or she) who has Geass will most likely end up a successful Leader and Conqueror." Napoleon, the Celtic Super-King, William the Conqueror, The Emperor of Britannia (the first Empire, not the reorganized Holy one) who put down Washington's Rebellion, etc. all had a Geass. the Roman leadership at the time and the last Emperor to rule from the British Isles didn't. Or they were out-Xanatosed. The latter makes for Great fanfic ideas: Code Geass: Celtic Super-King of the successful resistance, or Code Geass: Napoleon of the Revolution.
*** "Celtic Super-King of the successful resistance" ''Hell yes''.
*** Given that Caesar's "invasion of Britain" was essentially marching around Kent for a few weeks kicking some ass and going back to Gaul, Caesar losing (as in, "Not dying or having his army destroyed, but running back to Gaul with their tail between their legs) wouldn't be such a huge divergence. Given that Caesar's excuse for invading Britain (aside from RuleofCool) was Briton interference in Gaul, some sort of Britannic Vercingetorix uniting the Briton tribes isn't really all that implausible. (Speaking of which, you want a real divergence point? Vercingetorix beats Caesar at Alesia and rules a unified Gaul hostile to Rome. Pompey is out dealing with pirates. Vercingetorix marches on Italy. HilarityEnsues.) The key point to the divergent plotline here is Celtic super-king and his successors holding off the invasion of Britain by Claudius 100 years later, especially given that in this timeline, Claudius would've had serious interest in avenging Caesar's humiliation. Hell, Augustus might've even authorized an invasion of Britain ahead of schedule out of pride, especially if the whole Teutoberg Forest thing didn't happen. Even if Britannia was strong enough to maintain its independence from Rome, there'd still be quite a bit of cultural contact between Gaul and Britain. No Roman occupation, and even a unified Celtic Britannia, is no guarantee that Christianity and other importations from the later Roman Empire wouldn't happen. I just had an idea. c. 500, a massive Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britannia is thwarted by the Britannian Emperor, a warrior king named Arthur.
** Really quick note to the person above, historical King Arthur was Roman so it wouldn't work out that well. Also the reason why Christianity spread so fast was due to the Roman roads and the security brought about by Roman rule. The roads made it easer to travel and the Pax Romana made people more likely to travel without fear. If there was a super king on an island who had fought off Caesar, this could negate the Pax but more likely it would seal off the island from Roman influence and as such no one would want to travel there to share christianity with the barbaric Britannians.
*** It would have spread eventually, just not right away. And Britannia would still be open to trade, since you can't just close yourself off without going through economic stagnation. Roman-era Europe was actually very closely tied together, even the areas not folded into the empire, believe it or not. Britannia would have likely tried to learn all it could from Rome in order to help its own fortunes on the world stage, in the same way that Japan adopted Knightmare Frames for its own use. As for Arthur, [[SarcasmMode there's no way at all that someone from The Empire would ally himself with a smaller power for whatever agenda he had set for himself]]. [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial No way]]. [[SignatureStyle Not in Code Geass]].
*** While his origin is still being debated (and whether or not 'Arthur' was actually several people) Arthur definitely would not have been a Roman. If a single Arthur existed he would have been a Briton (aka Celts).
* Not sure if this is the right section or not, but this troper was thinking over where the characters of Code Geass would be if history had remained unchanged and realized he had ''no idea'' what Lelouch's nationality would be. British? American? Japanese? Any thoughts?
** He was born in what's really the USA. But the correct answer is that in a more real world he would never been born at all.
** He would never have been born. But if we consider AlienSpaceBats, then he'd likely be a member of ''some'' branch of the British Royal Family who has English (father's side) and American (mother's side) ancestry... who lives in Japan.
* Also, how can Pizza Hut exist in an alternate reality? I guess ProductPlacement trancends realities.
** In regards to your Pizza Hut question, and all the above AlternateHistory questions... did anyone else get the feeling that it was all completely made-up? To put it succinctly, the reason why there's so many holes that we keep pointing out is precisely ''because'' these holes exist in-universe. With the power of Geass at the command of many [[MagnificentBastard clever leaders]] throughout history, C.C. may be the only one alive who knows the ''whole'' truth. What seems like DidNotDoTheResearch becomes quite confusing when you realize that Geass consists of an entire [[TheMasquerade Masquerade]] that spans the entire world and history of ''CodeGeass''. It wouldn't be the first time that the creators of the show outright lied to us. It's not like they can spoil the series for us, so instead they offer [[RedHerring false leads]]. The FridgeBrilliance page says it best:
--> At first, the idea of having Pizza Hut in the series seemed like stupid Product Placement, but it now hits me that unless some really bad InSpiteOfANail is going on, this is yet another sign that the "official history" in the series in complete b.s. —- Jordan


* Let me tell you what actually happened. After Suzaku killed Lelouch, fighting broke out between the civilians and the imperial guards. The number of casualties is uncertain, but reports range from 60 to 60000, depending on the source. Suzaku and Nunnally were among the first to die. Afterwards, the issue of succession was raised. Lelouch left nothing resembling an heir, and no will. Candidates to the throne fought among themselves in the capital. Meanwile, the empire, held together by nothing but fear of death, fell apart like a wet newspaper. Hundreds of princedoms sprung up, among them 28 Holy Britannian Empires. Two dozen major wars were fought, plus hundreds of minor conflicts, terrorist acts, and innumerable miscellaneous crimes, as the map of the world was redrawn by everyone with a gun and an ambition. It took humanity two hundred and fifty years to return to the lousy stability that existed before Zero first put on his mask. Thanks for nothing.
** Added later: the idea that you can fix all the world's problems by making everyone hate you broke my suspension of disbelief like nothing else ever did. What, do humans have a limited supply of hate, so if they use it up on Lelouch, they'll have nothing left? Is that the idea? There's unrealistic, and then there's stupid.
*** Hold on, why would there be a fight between the royal guards and the people? Why would the people even be fighting? They'd be cheering from sheer joy. The royal guards wouldn't be able to fight because they were all geassed so when Lelouch died they would have no idea what they were doing there, where they were, or why they were there. All it would take is Jeremiah saying, "We're throwing a parade for Empress Nunnally" and everything would be fine and dandy.
** Yeah, no. And that isn't even a JustBugsMe anyways.
*** The idea isn't that they "ran out" of hate. It's that after a huge and massively bloody war and a tyrannical ruler being killed. The people would have for more need to concentrate on rebuilding and reconstruction and would not be in too big of a hurry to start another war. Here's some IRL examples: after WWI everyone was so opposed to the idea of another war that they appeased a clear maniac for 3 years before actually starting a fight, after WWII there was not a single European war for another 40 or so years. So taken to an extreme, the world could achieve peace for maybe a century before going back to normal. That would be just long enough to allow Nunnally to live a peaceful and happy life. More to the point, the ending was symbolic. The ending was meant to signify that peace is attainable but it is quite costly and sacrifices would need to be made. Oh and to the first poster, overreaction much?
** This requires both discarding what actually happened and assuming things about the Code Geass world that aren't exactly known for certain nor much less set in stone either, but at the very least it was fun to read an extrapolation for a pseudo-realistic, utterly pessimistic scenario.
** Dude, if that's your response to the ending, you seriously need to mellow out.
** I don't believe the "carnage breaks out as soon as Lelouch dies" scenario, but it seems overly optimistic to have world peace just by killing the most hated man on the planet. The world still needs to be rebuilt, and people are bound to have starkly different approaches on how to do it. If anything, Lelouch removed the one factor that united the world. By the way, is this even supposed to be in Alternate History? It seems more like a JBM about the way the show resolved itself, rather than the history.
** Isn't the entire point of Zero Requiem basically "Become utterly hated, have [[strike: Zerozaku]] Zerorugi kill object of said hatred, commission my much more marketable little sister as successor to the throne, thereby securing lasting world peace, and have Suzaku preserve it." I mean, it just seems obvious, since, after all, nature abhors a vacuum, and Lelouch of all people would take measures to not leave one behind after his death.
*** Peace will end... [[SequelHook and a sequel will begin.]] That might have been the plan all along.
* As mentioned in the Narm section: how did Nunnally in Nightmare of Nunnally get to the Shinjuku Ghettos? Alone. With no one (presumably) to bring her there. In the middle of a massacre. Did I mention that she's blind and crippled?
* Can someone explain the joke? People have said in the picture dramas Nunnally is a CovertPervert..Huh?
** In the picture drama referenced on the [[FetishFuel/CodeGeass Fetish Fuel]] page, the student council all cross-dress. The girls mostly go gaga over how pretty Lelouch looks in a dress and a long wig, and Nunnally says she's sad she can't see it. That's it, basically. YourMileageMayVary on whether that remark was perfectly innocent or she really is a CovertPervert. There is actually another picture drama where she makes remarks that could be taken that way, namely episode 8.75 (the [[BeachEpisode Pool Episode]]); she asks Lelouch to "[[IfYouKnowWhatIMean train her in various ways]]" so she can be more like Cornelia, in reference to Milly saying Cornelia probably "trains in various ways with her male subjects".
** A lot of it seems to be misinterpretation by the perverted Milly. It seems to be a running (mostly innocent) joke amongst their friends that Lelouch and Nunnally are "Married-Couple-Close". Remember, in one sound episode, Shirley is terrified that Lelouch will not love her, instead marrying Nunnally, Suzaku, or, at one point, ''everybody''.
* Nina's design. First of all, did her hair color change part way through the first season? Her hair looked originally black, but later it gained a green hue even in the dark. Also, is it me or does her design look different from other characters? It's not her glasses either.
** She's [[GenericCuteness relatively cute]] living in a world filled with TheBeautifulPeople. It was the ugliest they could make her without making her a {{Gonk}}.
** If this had happened, she would be DistaffCounterpart to [[GurrenLagann Attenborough]].
* Kallen's mom. [[spoiler:Wasn't she supposed to go to jail?]]
** She did, hence her complete absence until the finale. Getting a pardon is easy when you're good friends with the Empress.
* Why can't Nunnally get cybernetic legs? They fixed Orange-kun pretty good.
** No doubt Jeremiah's work was damned expensive (and was military funded). Nunnally couldn't afford it at first, and might even elect against it after she could. It was also probably quite experimental.
** It's brand new. Give them a few years and she'll probably elect to get it once it's available to the public.
* If Britannia is supposed to be an absolute monarchy, why does it have a prime minister? (Note: 'Because Britain has one' is not an answer, because Britain is ''not'' an absolute monarchy, nor was it at any point after the office of prime minister was established.)
** I always handwaved it as being for the sake of appearances - It makes the Britannian nobles/public think they have at least some say in governance. They don't, of course, but it at least ''looks'' that way.
** The fact that the prime minister in question is the Emperor's son makes the arrangement perfectly compatible with an absolute monarchy - there are some real life absolute monarchies where one of the king's brothers or sons is designated prime minister. At times I suspected that in Britannia's case the position was created specifically to give Second Prince Schneizel some position of power, since he is clearly more capable than First Prince Odysseus.
** There have been positions throughout history in various cultures that we've translated into English as either being "Prime Minister" or "Vizier", since they're the closest available words we've got. It basically means "the guy that the King/Emperor chose as his legislative second-in-command and advisor". Note that Britannia has a Senate (Parliament) and a House of Lords. Both can exist in an absolute monarchy, it's just that neither can have any real power beyond the constitution and rubber-stamp legislation.
* Britannia is not an absolute monarchy they are a constitutional monarchy with several branches of government including an elected parliament and a high court. Many high ranking officials that the emperor douse not have control over, these include the Chairman, Prime Minister, Speaker, President, and chief justice. They can be seen with the emperor at Clovis’s funeral. The emperor only has power over the military with every thing else he is a figure head, this was explicitly pointed out by him. Where everyone else was during Lelouch’s take over is unknown but my guess is under his geass control.
* The end of Season 1. [[spoiler:Euphinator related]]. ..Why did Lelouch [[spoiler:choose to say ''those'' words? Seriously? Was it supposed to be funny? Was that the only thing he could think of? Why choose ''that phrase''?]]
** IdiotBall. He was just trying to give the most horrific example he could think of.
* Rivalz. Am I the only one who thinks quite a few of the things he says, especially when concerning Japanese during the beginning of the series, sound accidentally racist?
** He is Britannian, and Britannians have an entire system of government that supports racism. Even if only mildly so, Rivalz does suffer from this upbringing.
*** No one else in, the anime versions, school seems to have a racist problem though... except Nina.
*** We never get the chance to see them comment on it seriously, or at least not much. Rivalz just happens to have the earliest chance to voice his impressions.
*** Well, there's those people who graffiti'd Suzaku's clothes for being an "Eleven", and who knows what else off-screen.
* So Kawaguchi apparently stated that he wants to announce a new animated production soon. Does this mean a third season of Code Geass? And since Lelouch was killed by the end of the second season will we get a new main character?
** No telling. The only info out is about a manga with a prequel plot, and that announcement was months ago.
*** Hasn't the manga been slated for an anime adaptation?
*** No. At least, there's no plans for such a thing. The latest news is some sort of OVA about a new group of characters in the show's timeline.
*** That's what I said. I heard that the new OVA (or is it a season?) revolves around the new manga, as in an adaptation of it.
*** Again, no. It's about a new group of characters in the ''show's'' timeline, not the manga.
** Apparently, there are three AlternateContinuity mangas: the ''Lelouch of the Rebellion'' manga, the ''Suzaku of the Counterattack'' manga, and the ''NightmareOfNunnally'' manga. Then, there's the ''Strange Tales of the Bakamatsu'' manga which may be canon but is likely just a UniversalAdaptorCast story, taking the ''CodeGeass'' characters and placing them in the Edo-era. The new canon manga is called ''Renya of the Dark'' (or ''Black''), and is explicitly stated to take place in the canon anime timeline, in the equivalent to the ''CodeGeass'' Edo-era. Then there's a new anime series to be released (it's currently in the works). It's called ''Akito Of The Ruined Land'' (best current translantion), and it will take place in 2017 a.t.b., or, concurrently with Season 1. So no, neither are sequels, one's a prequel and the other is an interquel.
* [[AsLongAsItSoundsForeign The names]]. Did they pick them from a French furnishing catalog or something or is it some odd case of ThemeNaming? A lot of their names directly translate to or are similar to certain words which are furniture based. "Red Lamp" for Lelouch and Nunnally's fake last names, "Window" for Shirley, "''World of Wool Brushes" for Rivalz, etc.
* [[WeAllLiveInAmerica The culture]]. Isn't almost anything Japanese supposed to be repressed and underground? Then why does everything seem rather Japanese? Especially the schools.
** CreatorProvincialism, probably....
* Nunnally... was supposed to have a crush on Suzaku? Huh?
** In case you haven't noticed, most of the people in ''CodeGeass'' are on par with the Olympian Gods in regards to beauty. And Nunnally is 14 years old, with Suzaku having been one of the only guys that Lelouch let near her for more than 5 seconds (aside from Rivalz, but he's... well, ''Rivalz''). Of course, part of it may have just been [[ShipperOnDeck Lelouch encouraging it out of his own desires]]...
* Why isn't this whole series out on DVD yet? Not just for a complete series for people who aren't stupid and won't buy the single volumes, but I don't think they have even released all the volumes yet. Why? At least let us get the first season in one dvd set. The show has been done for two years now. Theres a similar problem with Gurenn Lagann. I get that they make more money with the volume releases, but for the sake of shelf space they need to release these things as full sets.
** They do have sets though.
*** Not of the whole series. I mean, the whole series is availible on dvd now, but in 4-6 episode, individual discs. That means if I want the whole series I have to buy like 8 discs, instead of just one complete series box set or two seasonal box sets. That way saves space and money and they still don't have one yet.
* Suzaku is Japanese, right? ..He has green eyes and tan skin. Light colored eyes can happen in Asian people but it's very rare, and the tan skin could just be a tan he's had for years. But that seems unlikely.
** Kaguya also has green eyes (along with more traditional Japanese hair colouring), and she's his cousin, so maybe it's a family genetic quirk.
* Immortal Geass users and having body parts removed. How does that work? As in how would they regain their body parts. For example, CC has been [[spoiler:Guillotine'd]] in the past and also [[spoiler:crushed by water, after she met Lulu.]] VV [[spoiler:survived being blasted.]]
** On a similar note, how did CC "survive" [[spoiler:getting crushed by water?]] Wouldn't she just stay there?
*** Assuming she wasn't tangled up in the wreckage, her mangled corpse would float back up.
*** She either opened the hatch and let herself be crushed and floated to the surface then healed, or she was crushed inside the Gawain and stayed there until it was salvaged by the Black Knights (as parts of it ended up in Shinkiro and the Ikaruga) at which point she was freed and healed.
*** This troper just assumed she drowned and had to walk.
* Is it just me or is there some weird, pseudo-DieForTheShip stuff towards Suzaku from some of the Kallen fans in some forums and fanfics? All the stuff about how ''she'' should be the one Lelouch chose to be his Knight of Zero, how ''she'' should be the one he set up as a hero in the end and confided in, and Suzaku "took ''her'' place". It's almost as if someone's taken all the traditional shipper wank comments and replaced "girlfriend" with "knight".
* The beginning of ''Nightmare Of Nunnally''. How the heck did a crippled, blind, wheel chair bound girl get to an accident by herself? So far away from home too, and without being seen?
** Probably the same unlikely sequence of events that led to Lelouch getting thrown into a truck, taken to the ghetto, and dropped off right near his mother's old contractor...
*** How'd she get out of her room?
* Lost Colors and the kimonos. ''How''? '''''Why'''''? I thought Britannia suppressed almost everything remotely Japanese..Plus how did they get Nina into one?
** CreatorProvincialism... besides, hypocrisy and a pretentious attitude are kind of the the Britannian stereotypical trait in that universe.
*** But how did they get Nina into it?
* Say, do you think that anyone in-universe noticed that Emperor Lelouch was piloting the Shinkiro Knightmare Frame. You know, the Japanese Frame that was supposed to be ''Zero's personal Knightmare''. You'd think people would have noticed that...
** As I recall, Zero's piloting of that Knightmare wouldn't be common knowledge. The cameras were off by the time the China battle picked up and he used it the first time. Cameras were again taken out the second time. The military should recognize the use of Zero's personal Knightmare, but they covered that on the spot by radioing that it was stolen. It's weird, but nothing that couldn't be explained.
*** Fair enough, the whole "Rolo stealing it to rescue Lelouch" would explain it, in universe... Still, I could see a few eyebrows raised by those not-in-the-know, unless [[WildMassGuessing they thought that Lelouch stole Zero's knightmare to use against them]]...
*** The core members of the Black Knights, who knew that Lelouch was Zero, would obviously not be surprised to see him turn up with the machine he escaped in. As for the official cover story, they could just have claimed that Rolo commandeered it, as a Britannian inflitrator working for Lelouch.
* Milly loves Lelouch? I..Never noticed it. Am I missing something? She just seemed like a CoolBigSis.
** Part of their BackStory. She was an UnluckyChildhoodFriend from Lelouch's earlier days living with the Ashfords.
** In the Cupid Day episode she ordered the clubs to try to get her Lelouch's hat and admitted to Sayoko that she wished she had gotten it. Combined with one of the picture dramas and it's definitely implied that she has feelings for Lelouch even if she's mostly given up.
*** She still seems like a big sister though.
* Why do people say Rolo is in love with Lulu? It seems like a twisted brotherly love to me.
** Well, at least Kimura Takahiro and Rolo's voice actor seem to take for granted that his feelings were romantic. If "gaze upon me only", “Brother is only mine…", "no one can save my soul, only you", "you give me the reason to live", "he won’t smile at me - For something so simple, why does my heart hurt so much?", "wouldn’t it be enough that the two of us could stay together forever, somewhere in a quiet place? That way we should spend all eternity in happiness", among many other of his lines don’t sound as being in love to you… Not to mention the amount of times official sources depict Rolo blushing or with floating hearts around when he's together with/thinking of Lelouch, and the way he not only wants to occupy Nunnally's place inside his heart but also gets jealous when Shirley becomes his "girlfriend", after CC claims that Lelouch and her are getting married, during the whole kissing scene from Rururu Goukon Rhapsody...
* Am I the only one who saw Nina not as a [[TheWoobie woobie]], but as a point of complete disgust? She was willing to see 11's die, worshipped the horrible nation of Britannia, was incredibly racist, and she was so pathetic as a person that the death of someone she didn't even know that well sent her over the edge. Every time she showed up, I cringed. To me, she's the type of person that comes to mind when aliens call humans 'cockroaches.' Was she MEANT to be this way, or is it just a case of me having an odd viewpoint? I just didn't see any redeeming features in her. At all.
** Seems to me the interpretation can go either way. She's painted early on as being mentally unstable and with an unhealthy fixation on Euphemia. But at the same time (which they could have done a better job establishing), she obviously had some sort of terrible experience with 11's that tainted her view of them forever. She's a crazy bitch, but this is part of what makes her woobie material. She's blind to the conseqences of her actions until she actually has to face them.
* As Emperor what exactly did Lelouch do that would cause the Black Knights to think a KillSat that was going to nuke every major city from orbit was a better option? I could see them being upset and betrayed by him claiming the Britannian Throne but at least he didn't build a weapon of mass destruction whose only plausible purpose would be to force the world into fearful obedience.
** They're idiots. They never realized the purpose of it.
** Which is the problem with the Zero Requiem. Not only that, he would also have to be worse than Charles. It would have been more productive, and less bloody, to get people to center their scorn towards Charles and Schneizel. Which only leads all the more credence, along with [[DespairEventHorizon his loss of resolve following Nunnally's apparent demise and the betrayal incident]], that he was looking to kill himself. Not to mention that it was also a luck based mission, in that it involved Kallen going against him.
* How did Geassing the collective subconsious of humanity not remove Lelouch's ability to use his Geass anymore? It's supposed to only work on a single person once but wouldn't the collective subconsious count as everyone?
** Everyone who's dead. The living are apart from it, if not quite separate. Besides, he didn't really Geass it, so much as ask nicely.
* Who created the knights of rounds knightmare frames and when were they made? Most of them seem at least as advanced as the original Lancelot, which was nonetheless described as the first 7th generation knightmare, even though it apparently has little improvement over knight of rounds models. Even more, Mordred uses a weapon that was perfected less than a year ago, yet Anya should have been a knight of rounds longer than that. The flight pack is also mentioned as new and unique, yet at least two of the rounds models have it built in.
** An in-universe justification might be that the elite knights are getting advanced models but the real answer is probably that they were given [[NewPowersAsThePlotDemands new knightmares to be a better threat to the Black Knights]].
** The Rounds have had a year to get these new models, the tech for which is already developed if not quite out of the experimental phase at the time. We don't see them with it prior, so it stands to reason they didn't have them.
* How are the royals competing with one another? If they were as ruthless as Lelouch stated, there is no way Euphemia, Clovis and Oddyseus would be that high up in the chain of succesors.
** Their ranking seems to have something to do with birth and not necessarily personal ability. They also don't appear to be as outwardly violent as nobles might have been when Charles was young. At any rate Schneizel doesn't consider assassination until near the end. As for Euphemia, her sister is ''Cornelia''. Making her angry is a bad idea.
** Cornelia was Euphemia's full sister so she was probably scaring everyone else to keep her alive. Clovis was Scgneizel's full brother so he was probably maniplutaing things to keep him alive. Oddyseus was more or less useless but as long as he was the First Prince the other more capable nobles like Schneizel and Cornelia aren't as big targets so they keep him around as a distraction.

* Ok Britannia is a globe spanning empire with an extreme imperialistic streak and a proven superiority over all factions that dont happen to have a major character, that's well established. So... Why the hell dont they ever get round to taking back their own freaking homeland?!
** Based on the (incredibly) little information we have on the European military they seem to be autonomous enough that maybe the English navy is powerful enough to stop an invasion. Or maybe the writers didn't want to mention Europe any more than they absolutely had to.
*** Yeah... Except that they have successully invaded France, Spain and Russia.
* What bugs me is that there's apparently someone running around, changing every reference to Mao to make it sound like C.C. was actually his lover. The show itself establishes that this is not the case. 1) C.C. abandoned Mao when he was very young, which would mean any relationship would be pedophilia (ignoring the fact that she's several hundred years old, of course). 2) She outright says to Lelouch that Mao ''came to see her'' as a lover, not that they ''were'' lovers. Just because she said "I loved you once" before she shot him does not indicate romantic love; is the concept of motherly love lost on people? Especially considering the staff tried to insist that this is exactly how she feels towards Lelouch, when she's shown getting awfully close to him.
** It's partly due to translation differences. The dub has C.C. saying, "I became his lover, but only in his mind." Either a fansub or the official sub (can't remember which) has the line as simply "I became his lover."
* What the hell is JunFukuyama doing with his voice? It's not horrible, but it sounds phoney enough that someone would surely take notice, and it sounds like he could be injuring his vocal chords trying to sustain it.
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1st Mar '11 2:48:43 AM azul120
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*** Except he didn't even need to. It was all part of a death wish after everything he lost, and/or thought he had.



*** Because he knew that he couldn't. Revolution comes in two phases: destruction and creation. Lelouch was a destroyer. What makes him different from most revolutionaries is that he actually ''realised'' that the skills and mindset required to accomplish the former, pretty much precludes you from succeeding at the latter. He destroyed Britannia - destroyed the entirety of the world that was - but he simply did not have the skills to build a new world. That's where people like Nunally, Kayuga and the Tianzi come in.

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*** Because he knew that he couldn't. Revolution comes in two phases: destruction and creation. Lelouch was a destroyer. What makes him different from most revolutionaries is that he actually ''realised'' that the skills and mindset required to accomplish the former, pretty much precludes you from succeeding at the latter. He destroyed Britannia - destroyed the entirety of the world that was - but he simply did not have the skills to build a new world. That's where people like Nunally, Kayuga Kaguya and the Tianzi come in.in.
*** That he used destruction as a means to an end didn't make him a pure destroyer; he also created the Black Knights, and more importantly, the UFN, among other things, which demonstrated that he had organizational and leadership skills that could be put to good use as a peacetime leader had he lived. Which makes his death seem like such a waste. Which makes, in response to the other bulletpoint, the idea of acting even worse and causing even more deaths as atonement complete nonsense. It was just [[DeathSeeker an over-the-top death wish]].


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*** It's not simply a matter of a "promise"; Schneizel would have called him out for waffling. Plus, he had already gone too far to bail out.
26th Feb '11 6:15:20 AM gingerninja666
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Added DiffLines:

*** Yeah, Suzaku was broken long before Lelouch, and I did like him a lot less in R2, up until his HeelFaceTurn, or was it FaceHeelTurn...... hmmm. It seems a major reason people hate Suzaku is because he [[SpannerInTheWorks lobs spanners]] into Lelouch's plans. That's a real YMMV for me, cuz I loved all those [[BigDamnHeroes moments]]. I guess I just hate Lelouch that much, but thank you for explaining that too me from the point of view of someone who doesn't hate Suzaku.
25th Feb '11 8:56:37 PM azul120
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Added DiffLines:

*** I can clarify those concerns. And to clarify, it was also because of serendipity, not to mention his role in opposing the rebellion Lelouch started as Zero, that Suzaku was able to get so much leeway. Without the rebellion, Suzaku would have stayed put, more likely than not. More to the point, in light of both of their faults and aside from the typical reasons, Lelouch seems to score more points with the fandom because he actually has a plan, not to mention more overall vision, in that he plans on fixing the world, whereas Suzaku at best cares only about Japan, and usually [[TheFool has no idea of what he's doing]]. Worse, Suzaku himself is one of the biggest [[SpannerInTheWorks spanners]] for Lelouch, ruining the latter's plans when they would otherwise bear fruit, and thus prolonging the conflict. It's not hard to be annoyed on Lelouch's behalf a little more often, in that his plans tend to falter through DiabolusExMachina so often. While it was unfortunate what happened to Euphie, not to mention understandable how it would affect Suzaku, R2 still highlights how far he has jumped off, in that he is helping with Schneizel's EU campaign in hopes of currying favor up at the top. While the goal of getting Japan as a protectorate is a noble one, the means, which come at the expense of other countries, more than negate it. It is true that he didn't drug Kallen, but he only stopped himself because he in his own mind didn't want to be compared to Zero, not because he cared about Kallen. In addition, throughout the season, he let Nunnally be used as a pawn, and once did so himself, [[WhatTheHellHero much to her displeasure]]. Don't get me wrong; in the end, I felt more pity in the end for Suzaku, as he learned his lesson in the end. And speaking of [[DespairEventHorizon broken people]], Lelouch was there in the end as well, to the point where his final solution was in of itself [[DeathSeeker a thinly veiled excuse for suicide]]. In the end, the Scrappy Ball had been passed over to Oghi [[LoveMakesYouDumb for]] [[TheStoolPigeon very]] [[SwissMessenger good]] [[KarmaHoudini reason]].
25th Feb '11 12:09:43 PM gingerninja666
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** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirey died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.

to:

** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirey Shirley died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.
25th Feb '11 12:05:36 PM gingerninja666
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** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide of rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirey died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.

to:

** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide of attempts failed, he'd try rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirey died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.
25th Feb '11 12:02:55 PM gingerninja666
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** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spolier: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide of rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirey died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.

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** I've always wondered about Suzaku's hatedom, I guess it comes down to [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation interpretation]] right? I see where people are coming from, but i've always seen Lelouch as the bigger asshole, and the main reason people side with him is because he won, if Suzaku and Britannia had achieved peace through their means we might've been cheering for them instead. To me, Suzaku is a well meaning, kind hearted young man who's tainted past won't leave him alone, some would be able to cope had they been in the same position, Suzaku could not, and it's only natrual, after all, [[spolier: [[spoiler: Killing your father at age 10 is not something you get over quickly]]. [[DeathSeeker Suzaku wanted to die so bad]], as a form of redemption, not only that but he wanted die doing something as heroic as possible. What's wrong with that? Lelouch feels the need to litter his plans with pointless [[RuleOfCool theatrics]] just for the hell of it, why not let Suzaku die in a blaze of glory doing what he believes is right? I always though he joined Britannia because he's overcompensating for what happened with his [[spoiler: father]], that happened because he disobeyed the governments rules, and he never wants to let that happen again, but he also wants to free Japan from the slavery HE caused, so he devised a plan, wherby if his suicide of rising through the system, and helping them out that way, to be honest, if it weren't for Zero, that plan might've worked. As evidenced by the falling women in episode 2, Suzaku truly does care about others, and wants to protect his people, he's just got his morals, self imposed or trauma-imposed getting in the way. I found Suzaku to be likeable, as a person, he treats his friends with respect and admiration [[spoiler: With the exception of Lelouch later on but he has a very good reason]] and their one of the only things that can help stabilise his mind. The destroyed visage of Suzaku that we see in R2 is, in my opinion, a complete creation of Zero, yet no one blames him in the fandom. First off, the "Live" Geass that was gifted to him, magically blew the foot off his plans to kill himself, in his mind, Redemption has become completely unobtainable, which means that the spectre of his tragic mistake burned into him from childhood will be there FOREVER, this alone would make one lash out widly at the soul who caused it, in this case, Zero. What's worse, love had finally entered his life, someone who could both accomplish his goal of freeing Japan, and maybe help him let go of his guilt at the same time, maybe then he wouldn't need to kill himself. Lo and behold, who gets in the way? Zero, [[spoiler: he kills Euphie, and not only that, he makes her slaughter the very people Suzaku strove to protect first, then used that massacre as a means of furthering his plans, true it was an accident but he's never told that]]. I don't care who you are, you're gonna be vengeful after something like that. Vengeance was half of Lelouch's overriding motivation after all, and people like him. From that point, Suzaku was all but insane, and I can't defend all he did while like this, he tried to uphold his beliefs, what was left of them, but everything around him got too complicated, too fast, and he was too broken to do anything about it. Suicide was out, so all he had left was his plan of rise through the ranks. He still couldn't bring himself to strip Kallen of her free will however, showing that he is still good deep down. If people can look past Lelouch [[spoiler: murdering hundreds, if not thousands of unarmed civillians just because Shirey died]] then I don't see why Suzaku isn't covered aswell. The guy did horrible things, they both did, but they also wanted peace, both for personal AND ethical reasons.
This list shows the last 10 events of 126. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.CodeGeass