History Headscratchers / CaptainAmericaCivilWar

*** In his letter at the end, Steve says " I guess I thought by not telling you about your parents I was sparing you, but I can see now that I was really sparing myself, and I'm sorry." This suggests that while may not have known 100% that Bucky did it, he did deduce that it was the most likely outcome and that he didn't look into to it further or want to bring it up to Tony because, subconsciously, he didn't want to have the face the uncomfortable truth that may lead him to have to choose between his friends.

** I thought Cap believed Bucky was responsible at first, but chalked it up to the brainwashing. He goes to Bucky and asks him to turn himself in, Bucky refuses and when the police arrives, fights his way out. Cap then decides to fight off the cops (who now can justify any lethal actions they use) and T'Challa in order to help out Bucky. It's only after Bucky is captured that he, Falcon, and Sharon Carter decide the evidence is too convenient for it to be just Bucky being brainwashed.

** There was a scene in ''Age of Ultron'' where Wanda was shown using her powers from a distance to warn the Sokovians to evacuate. The new team just wanted to downplay the telepathic powers as much as possible without actually retconning them out, so they're never used or mentioned. Strictly speaking there's no explanation for why she isn't using it.
** I interpreted that scene as her forcing them to. All of them go dead eyed, drop everything, and walk out calmly. And while ''Series/WandaVision'' shows that Wanda can control minds on a mass scale, there's no way they'd react that calmly to a telepathic message warning them of their destruction.
** Precisely, she's able to bend many people to her will at a distance. OP here, I actually don't mind if they decide to forget about those powers for drama's sake either (they ''are'' story breaker powers); but it bears mention that they, well, did forget.
** It was the wrong situation to be using her telepathy. On Klaue's ship in ''Age of Ultron'', Wanda was using stealth to distract the minds of the Avengers, and had back-up from Pietro when Hawkeye resisted. Back in Sokovia, when she did her part to evacuate the people, Wanda wasn't under any threat at that moment. At the airport battle, she's got six individuals to help contend with, all with different abilities and fighting styles who would probably resist mind control. Her telekinesis requires intense concentration anyway, as shown, Rhodey broke that concentration by shooting her in the back when she tried to stop the rubble from the control tower falling over the entrance to the hangar.
** We already know they wouldn't "probably resist" her mind control. She already used it against some of them. On Klaue's ship she put ''Thor'' and all the others (except Hawkeye) out of commission without really having to concentrate; literally just a movement of her hand for each of them. Just one example, during the airport battle, where she could've used her telepathy but didn't is when Hawkeye distracted Tony so she could attack him. But instead of hypnotizing him, she went for telekinesis (it actually bears questioning why she didn't just grab Tony himself and slammed him around like a rag doll like when she flung T'Challa away, instead of raining cars on him, but that's a different matter entirely). As for War Machine's attack, that's an odd example, what she's doing at that exact moment does require continuous concentration because it was a continuous task; she doesn't need that much concentration for grabbing someone and throwing them away, like she did with Black Widow. That one she did outright nonchalantly, before chewing out Clint for going easy on Natasha because they were on a tight schedule.

*** Except we've already seen her using her telepathy explicitly for combat and those people, the Avengers, eventually recovered. After dealing with Zemo, she could've simply explained that attacking their minds was better than beating each other into a pulp. That said, I would accept her simply refusing to use those powers against other heroes on the basis of morality ''if the movie had.'' But there isn't even a throw-away line considering the possibility (like Hulk's absence got acknowledged) following with she rejecting it as too horrible. Hell, they could've have had her saying "I don't want another Ultron" and that would have been enough.

** Hawkeye didn't actually resist. He stopped her before she had the chance to try it on him. As for "covered people resisting", her powers have gone through vibranium before (like by ripping Ultron's "heart" out). Hell, she completely dominated a creature made entirely of vibranium (and wielding the Mind Stone) in this very same movie. That said, I would accept ItOnlyWorksOnce ''if she had at least tried.'' But she had a clear chance to try it on, at least, Stark but didn't.

** Maybe it's more difficult to do without preparation? In ''Age of Ultron'', she was in the middle of the street without interference reaching out her influence. Hard to do in the fight in the airport with multiple moving parts and people, if she tried to do that then she would be a stationary target. Also when she first used her powers against Steve, Natasha and Thor they were in close proximity and caught unaware. Being alert to her presence may be a factor. If her target is aware of her presence it may be harder for her to control them. Of course, [[Series/WandaVision years later]], this is [[NextTierPowerUp no longer an issue.]]

** From the government's perspective, it's a neat summation of the entire problem with the Avengers. Captain America decided to take a young, inexperienced woman, who barely knows much about her magic (as further established by ''Series/WandaVision''), into effectively a war zone, and her [[FailedASpotCheck poor situational awareness]] got people killed. If she had been better trained for such eventualities, she would have been able to move the bomb somewhere completely harmless. Instead, she was only thinking about saving Cap's life, not paying attention to where the bomb would go off, and overestimating her ability to contain the explosion itself and avoid collateral damage. In short, she screwed up, and it's Cap's fault for not making sure she was ready for a mission like this.

** The Accords were probably just a happy coincidence for Zemo that he was happy to use. As Loki and Scarlet Witch had demonstrated, it actually doesn't take much to get the Avengers gnawing at each others' necks. His end goal was always to find a way to fracture the Avengers, and the existence of the Accords most likely just accelerated his plan. His end goal was always to get Cap, Bucky, and Tony into the same room and spring the tape on them. The means of how to accomplish that are more or less irrelevant.

*** From the way the fight plays out, Wanda at minimum intended to go with Steve and Bucky to Siberia. Sam, Clint and Scott offer to play bait in order for the others to escape and deal with the super soldiers. You can tell Wanda didn't intend to play bait since she's right on Steve and Bucky's tail as they run for the jet. Unfortunately she doesn't make it because she's forced to stop about halfway there to hold up the radio control tower that Vision cut down. Wanda at minimum was not planning on staying behind and acting as distraction while Steve and Bucky ran. She was following them to the jet. (And it makes sense that Wanda would go with them because if you’re up against five uncontrollable Winter Soldiers, and had to pick one of the Avengers to dispatch them in the fastest way possible and with the least amount of collateral, you would use Wanda, since she basically took out all the Avengers in one shot in the shipyard scene in ''Age of Ultron''). Wanda would certainly cause Zemo a fair amount of trouble if she had made it, since she'd have been likely to deal with capturing Zemo or help Steve dispatch Tony before Tony could hurt Bucky too much.

[[folder:The Film's Title]]
* With so many characters jam packed into one movie, why is it called Captain America: Civil War? Wouldn't it make more sense to call the film Marvel Civil War?
** Because at the forefront of the movie is Captain America and his place in the world. Captain America's actions and choices is what helped cause the conflict. The war is the result of him not being a good soldier and obeying orders, especially orders he doesn't agree with. It's a Captain America story, played on a world stage.
** Based on the Trailer the downtime parts of the story are Cap and Falcon locating Bucky and uncovering a Hydra plan. The Anti-Reg heroes might be part of it too, but it's primarily a Captain America story. Iron Man is the antagonist and the other Pro Reg heroes are only going to show during fight scenes.
** The film's main focus is still around what will be done about Bucky, which is very much part of Cap's character arc.
** I imagine that they didn't want people to complain that Captain America wouldn't get his own Phase 3 movie, so they just named this one "Captain America: Civil War" to make them feel better. It's not a huge stretch, since Cap's relationship with Bucky basically starts the whole conflict.
** 2016 marks the 75th anniversary of Captain America's comic debut. I bet that influenced the title.
** Now that they film has been released, those concerns should be over. Yes, there are many characters around, but it's still a Captain America film, focused on Captain America.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The death by sink scene]]

[[folder: UN bombing]]
* I admit that in a universe with loads of superbaddies, you can't protect an UN meeting, even if it has "Please terrorize me!" painted on it in ten foot letters, even in-universe. But a ''car bomb''? [[SwissCheeseSecurity How lame is that?]]
[[/folder]]

*** The whole damn Sokovia Accords is a contrived mess. The United Nations has zero authority over autonomous citizens, enhanced or otherwise. Literally the only Avengers they could possibly try to give orders to are Captain America (as a member of the United States Army), Natasha and Clint (members of whatever intelligence organizations they work for.) Banner is a private citizen, and Thor is a bloody Norse god. The United States has specifically attempted on no fewer than four occasions to get Tony to turn over the Iron Man technology , and he refused to help them other than the creation of War Machine. (And you think he doesn't have a software disconnect for that suit?) The fact that Tony is in ''favor'' of signing his autonomy away when he expressly refused to do so in his own movies shows how terribly contrived this situation actually is. On top of that, the trigger event was the bomb Wanda detonated next to an office building. Seems the UN somehow forgot she was trying to prevent it from being detonated in the middle of a market with hundreds of potential victims. Let's also not forget that the same organization trying to blame the Avengers for the damage caused by the Chitauri invasion also tried to nuke Manhattan. None of it makes a lick of sense.

** While the UN problem is a valid one, it is an unrealistic response, considering the world the UN finds itself in. It is a world where global extinction events occur over a matter of hours, not days. There is literally no time to debate, consider and weigh options. If the UN had presented the Accords as a talking point, seeking input from Steve and co, to find a way for rapid response with oversight in regards to enhanced threats, then maybe Steve would have been more receptive. The UN concerns are valid, but so are Steve's. It’s not just a matter of oversight, but options, using the real world as an example takes a different slant as the real world in this case in the MCU. Whereas stated extinction events occur over hours and immediate response is needed. Not debated endlessly, if the UN and government bodies where more trust worthy that Steve would be more receptive. But after 9/11, the London tube bombings, the Incident, and the fall of SHIELD, etc. Steve refusing to sign is understandable. That is not to say he would not have. With Tony’s influence they could have amended things to be more practical. But presented heavy handed as it was, his refusal to sign is logical. Unfortunately events out of both he and Tony’s control prevented them from making a compromise that would have led to him signing. Collateral damage is unfortunate and terrible, Steve is not denying that. If a solution was presented that allowed him to protect civilians without compromising response time, he would have signed. He didn’t because he knows as a good soldier in certain situations hesitation leads to people like bin Laden and Thanos.

*** The collateral damage argument. The Avengers cause collateral damage? Well, so does every other organization in the world, and they would have managed it far less well than the Avengers did. That explosion in Lagos? Yeah, Wanda was in a Trolley situation. She accidentally killed 11 Wakanda humanitarian workers, but Crossbones would’ve killed a lot more people if the explosion happened on the ground, surrounded by even more civilians. If the Avengers hadn’t been there, a terrorist group would’ve gotten a bioweapon — an actual weapon of mass destruction — with potential casualties in the thousands at least. Those helicarriers in DC caused destruction, but not a whole lot considering three aircraft carriers fell out of the sky, and it was mostly limited to government property with minimal civilian casualties. If those helicarriers were allowed to continue, the casualties would’ve been in the millions. Ultron? Well, Ultron wrote himself into existence from the Mind Stone over the course of roughly an hour and went Skynet in about a minute, without Tony actually doing much. And considering the potential casualties of that one included all life on Earth, there being as few casualties as there were is frankly miraculous.
*** Then there's the government. What’s their track record for collateral damage? Well, in the invasion of New York City the World Security Council's first response was to try to ''nuke Manhattan'' while the battle was still undecided. What’s more, let's not forget who would supposedly have control of the Avengers' leash and the power to enlist any superhuman (and violate the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which banned involuntary servitude): bureaucrats and career politicians. It's only been less than two years since HYDRA got exposed. HYDRA not only controlled nearly the entirety of SHIELD, but had also infiltrated the highest positions of power and governments worldwide for decades. Do you really think they got them all, Secretary Ross? And now you want to hand that kind of power over to the same corrupt, compromised politicians? And that’s not even mentioning the various non-HYDRA secret societies and conspiracies out there with friends in elected offices, like the Hand (since ''Daredevil'' and ''Iron Fist'' established the Hand as having influence on New York City officials), or that one time the Vice-President worked with Aldrich Killian to try to assassinate the President in ''Iron Man 3''.

** Unsurprising that the blame goes to the Avengers, because its easier. Situations like these are complex and multi-layered, and people want answers quick and easy. They want someone to blame, they need someone to blame. They don't want a long story just something short and sweet they can focus on. Something to feel a sense of control. Alien Invasion? Those Avengers did it. Helicarriers falling out of the sky? Avengers are the cause. Killer robot? Yeah that time it actually was them. People want answers, clear and easy to understand in a five minute soundbyte on the news, so the media and the government hands then the Avengers as scapegoats. They accept it because it gives a face to their fear and uncertainty. Something they can understand to help them to process this new world of alien invasions and Thunder Gods.

[[folder: Bucky's machine gun]]

** Most of the world thinks it's extremely rare which is why the Wakandan government guards what they have so diligently. In fact back in the 1940s they thought that there was only enough to make one shield. It is possible using it's enhanced technology, hidden fortune and operatives they have managed to sell itself as a country with nothing of interest and the only thing of interest (Vibranium) has mostly been depleted and stolen. They could have also used their hidden wealth and operatives not to mention advanced technology to divert interest when need be. They have also managed to use stealth technology to hide a whole country and what they truly have much like the [[Film/WonderWoman2017 Amazons back in Themiscyra .]] Wakanda used technology to hide themselves and what they really had from the world. Their fortune to buy influence around the world. Influence and technology to sell the illusion of what the world sees, a simple country with little of interest. It helps that they sold themselves as a small African kingdom of no importance except one, and that one thing may already be depleted beyond interest i.e all of it was used to create Ultron. A train of thought the Wakadans would have encouraged, for they know if the world knew that they had a literal mountain of vibranium. Then the worlds governments would try to secure the [[NoBloodForPhlebotinum vibrinium for themselves by force or guile.]]

** Most of the world thinks it's extremely rare which is why the Wakandan government guards what they have so diligently. In fact back in the 1940s they thought that there was only enough to make one shield. It is possible using it's enhanced technology, hidden fortune and operatives they have managed to sell itself as a country with nothing of interest and the only thing of interest (Vibranium) has mostly been depleted and stolen. They could have also used their hidden wealth and operatives not to mention advanced technology to divert interest when need be. They have also managed to use stealth technology to hide a whole country and what they truly have much like the [[Film/Wonderwoman2017 Amazons back in Themiscyra .]] Wakanda used technology to hide themselves and what they really had from the world. Their fortune to buy influence around the world. Influence and technology to sell the illusion of what the world sees, a simple country with little of interest. It helps that they sold themselves as a small African kingdom of no importance except one, and that one thing may already be depleted beyond interest i.e all of it was used to create Ultron. A train of thought the Wakadans would have encouraged, for they know if the world knew that they had a literal mountain of vibranium. Then the worlds governments would try to secure the [[NoBloodForPhlebotinum vibrinium for themselves by force or guile.]]

** Its gets worse, in ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'' it has been revealed that not only do the Avengers, have to sign and register, but any and all unregistered enhanced have to submit themselves for identification and documentation. Fingerprints, power base, personal history and details. Who you are, what you can do, your family, your friends, your blood type, where you live and where you work all taken down and stored in a Government database. Basically, if you're powered or enhanced in any way and want to be left alone, you're out of luck. You will be documented and put on a list. They tell you it's a safe list but in the world of Edward Snowden, security leaks and hacking, you may have to take that with a pinch of salt. Not only that, who's to say that certain governments won't use this as leverage to [[BlackmailIsSuchAnUglyWord ''volunteer'' the services of those on the list for the interests of their Country]]. Or terrorist groups who manage to learn the identity of those enhanced and [[IHaveYourWife those they love, using this to force them to act as super-powered weapons]]. Or people like the [[ANaziByAnyOtherName Watchdogs and those like them]] who want to kill those different use the list as a target data base.

** Watch the film ''Film/EyeInTheSky'', which came out just after this and almost seems like an answer to the question of what the Accords would entail. A mission to capture a terrorist for trial suddenly has to become an impromptu assassination when she is seen putting a suicide vest on. Because of all the channels they have to go through to make sure they're covered legally they end up killing a young girl in the collateral damage from the missile strike. Had they acted as soon as they saw the terrorist putting on the vest, the girl would have survived.

** I got the impression they were never used. Since they were volunteers and Hydra's top guys before, they didn't need brainwashing to follow Hydra's goals, but the serum enhanced their violent and destructive tendencies, and they became monsters, to the point of Bucky having to protect his handler in there with them. It would be too much trouble and destroying the skills they were chosen for to do the whole Bucky memory wipe and trigger implants treatment. They froze them rather than destroy them in case they could use them later - maybe with improvements from Whitehall's experiments with the Faustus machine on inhumans, which they either didn't know about (hydra definitely works in isolated cells), or just doesn't work on super soldiers without the deep conditioning and memory wipes Bucky had. I don't think they were brainwashed at all - if they had triggers, Karpov would have used them to shut the other soldiers down rather than ordering Bucky to get him out of there.

** I thought Cap believed Bucky was responsible at first, but chalked it up to the brainwashing. He goes to Bucky and asks him to turn himself in, Bucky refuses and when the police arrives fights his way out. Cap then decides to fight off the cops (who now can justify any lethal actions they use) and Panther in order to help out Bucky. It's only after Bucky is captured that he, Falcon, and Agent 13 decide the evidence is too convenient for it to be just Bucky being brainwashed.

** Maybe it's more difficult to do without preparation? In ''Age of Ultron'', she was in the middle of the street without interference reaching out her influence. Hard to do in the fight in the airport with multiple moving parts and people, if she tried to do that then she would be a stationary target. Also when she first used her powers against Steve, Natasha and Thor they were in close proximity and caught unaware. Being alert to her presence may be a factor. If her target is aware of her presence it may be harder for her to control them. Of course years later this is [[NextTierPowerUp no longer an issue.]]

** Most importantly, Tony didn't see the situation escalating like it did. For all Tony knew, Steve and the Falcon ran off with Bucky Barnes. If cooler heads prevail, they might even avoid a fight altogether. But in case it does, Peter's role is clear: Only engage the guy guaranteed to go easy him, from a distance if you can. He didn't know Cap was assembling a team to go on a mission he felt was vitally important. By the time he met the at the airport, he knows about Clint and Wanda being there, but that didn't seem to have happened until after his meeting with Peter. Now all of a sudden Cap has a force twice its original size and more than tripled in strength, and they're not backing down.

*** If they were Hydra, it would have raised many alarm bells as to where they came from. Rhodes certainly would have questioned where they came from if not sent by the UN and the UN would know that they weren't sent by them. Given how all their secrets were blown, they probably wouldn't be able to blend in with the actual authorities. They also probably wouldn't have let Bucky be taken away to the UN holding cell.

** In addition, since Thor left to find out more about the Infinity Stones, the Avengers, even with their limited knowledge on the subject, probably want to keep that on the down low to prevent untrustworthy characters from finding out, which would include GeneralRipper like Ross.

** In addition, since Thor left to find out more about the Infinity Stones, the Avengers, even with their limited knowledge on the subject, probably want to keep that on the down low to prevent untrustworthy characters from finding out, certainly not a GeneralRipper like Ross.

** In addition, since Thor left to find out more about the Infinity Stones, the Avengers, even with their limited knowledge on the subject, probably want to keep that on the down low to prevent untrustworthy characters from finding out.

** Most importantly, Tony didn't see the situation escalating like it did. For all Tony knew, Steve and the Falcon ran off with Bucky Barnes. By the time he met the at the airport, he knows about Clint and Wanda being there, but that didn't seem to have happened until after his meeting with Peter. If cooler heads prevail, they might even avoid a fight altogether. But in case it does, Peter's role is clear: Only engage the guy guaranteed to go easy him, from a distance if you can. He didn't know Cap was assembling a team to go on a mission he felt was vitally important. Now all of a sudden Cap has a force twice its original size and more than tripled in strength, and they're not backing down.

** Most importantly, Tony didn't see the situation escalating like it did. For all Tony knew, Steve and the Falcon ran off with Bucky Barnes. If cooler heads prevail, they might even avoid a fight altogether. But in case it does, Peter's role is clear: Only engage the guy guaranteed to go easy him, from a distance if you can. He didn't know Cap was assembling a team to go on a mission he felt was vitally important. Now all of a sudden Cap has a force twice its original size and more than tripled in strength, and they're not backing down.

* I understand if ''Agents of Shield'' didn't use them since the Russos have said they haven't kept up with the show but if Hydra had five more Winter Soldiers since early 90s, why have they not been brought out? Why didn't Pierce use them since they were apparently better than Bucky or Strucker use them against the Avengers. I understand if they could not be controlled, but from what Bucky mentioned, they were used on at least onermission and the flashback did show them brought back if they got out of control. I would accept it in Agents of Shield, they say that it was a cell of HYDRA who was exclusively using them, and was only being lent Bucky (which the others did not not know about) and the other Hydra cells had trouble trying to find year base. I am just wondering is all.

*** Tony doesn’t have the best track record of handling his emotions well when the people he cares about are injured. As the previous poster pointed out, he made an irrational decision in the heat of the moment. That doesn’t justify his actions, but they’re not meant to be seen as justified.

*** While Tony trying to kill Bucky was definitely an irrational decision, the film never tries to paint him as justified and even Tony eventually realizes that he was in the wrong, as shown by his attitude in later films. The whole point of the scene is that he has RevengeOverReason on his mind.

*** While Tony trying to kill Bucky was definitely an irrational decision, the film never tries to paint him as justified and even Tony eventually realizes that he was in the wrong, as shown by his attitude in later films.

*** If they were Hydra, it would have raised many alarm bells as to where they came from. Rhodes certainly would have questioned where they came from if not sent by the UN and the UN would know that they weren't sent by them. Given how all their secrets were blown, they probably wouldn't be able to blend in with the actual authorities.

*** If they were Hydra, it would have raised many alarm bells as to where they came from. Rhodes certainly would have questioned where they came from if not sent by the UN.