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** [[spoiler:Vision and War Machine would cause too much collateral damage if they fought with their weapons, hence why they sent in a team that could easily be considered 'stealth'. Course nobody expected Crossbones' suicide vest...]]
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** Indeed? One would think it would have been much more efficient to spend the entire year working with the people most directly concerned by the accords rather than making last minute corrections. In truth, while Cap is indeed unwilling to negotiate, the other side attitude is shifty at best. Beside, Ross pretty much state out loud that those are the final draft, and the conference in Vienna is just a bit of ceremony before official application. He pretty much enter the avengers hq saying this how will be how things will be from now on, and if you're not happy with it just retire.


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*** I don't see why not. It sure is more interesting than the original comics storyline. And while it's indeed the anti-accord side argument, it worth pointing out that the pro-side don't offer much of a counter argument. Aside of ''sign or retire'' at last.
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** That's exactly what they do. The UN meeting is exactly supposed to further discuss the accords, maybe amend it where necessary. Cap and his side are completely unwilling to compromise at all, though, so they aren't up to even discussing it. And "placing exceptions in emergency cases" wouldn't work at all, really. The Avengers pretty much act ''only'' on emergencies already, so they would be always acting on exception. It would be pretty much the same as not having them sign anything at all.
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** Isn't all of the above basically the anti-accord side's argument? Can it be a headscratcher when the question to the crux of the story itself?
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** In ''The Winter Soldier'', [[spoiler: Arnim Zola implies that the reason Howard and Maria were killed is because they know about Hydra's existence within SHIELD. Maybe the super soldier blood bags that Howard was transporting is Hydra's second attempt to create their own SuperSoldier just like Red Skull decades ago. Howard happened to found out about it, and by having no idea of how far Hydra's influence goes (remember that in the present, during ''The Avengers'', even Tony's high-tech hacking device cannot tell him about Hydra or who is affiliated with it), he cannot trust anyone to do the job so he decides to take care of the super soldier blood bags himself in secret. Alas, Hydra found out about it and sent The Winter Soldier to finish him and his wife off...]]
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** [[spoiler: Pym had already retired and told SHIELD to go fuck itself by the time Howard died. He's not going to be them ''any'' favors for old time's sake.]]
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[[/folder]]

[[folder:World wealthiest drug smuggler]]
* [[spoiler:What was Howard Stark even doing with those five super soldier juice IV bags in the trunk of his car? There is a throwaway line from Maria saying they must stop by the pentagon before going to Miami, and that tell us a fat lot of nothing. Wasn't someone or something more qualified for the job? Like a military convoy armed to the teeth? Hank Pym?]]
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** Tony's clearly redirecting his anger. Falcon broke off his escape and risked capture to try and save Rhodey. They whole situation that led to it is Tony's fault but he can't bring himself to admit it, so he blames others.
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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Problems with those accords]]
*So the accords were apparently being discussed for one years following Ultron's rampage. At no point someone thought it would be a great idea to, you know, ask the avengers what they thought of it? Maybe negotiate stuff, remove things that are impossible to enforce, place exceptions in emergency cases,etc... Instead of dropping that door stopper and telling them to STFU and sign the thing already?
* Also, how is the UN less corruptible than SHIELD or the US government? That the activities of the avengers will be mandated by the UN does not mean the people in charge won't be mandated by HYDRA or mind controlled or whatever. It does mean hovewer that the next villain better give us a really early warning so the administrative behemoth might start to think about what they want the avengers to do. Let us hope that Thanos is a real gentleman.
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*** Could be he blames [[spoiler: Wanda, as it seems her powers affected Vision's. Could explain why Tony doesn't help Wanda after he sees she's being kept inside an isolated cell. Later she's even seen in a straightjacket.]]

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*** Could be he blames [[spoiler: Wanda, as it seems her powers affected Vision's. Could explain why Tony doesn't help Wanda after he sees she's being kept inside an isolated cell. Later she's even seen in a straightjacket, though that might have nothing to do with Tony, as we don't even know if Tony knows about the straightjacket.]]
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**** Could be he blames [[spoiler: Wanda, as it seems her powers affected Vision's. Could explain why Tony doesn't help Wanda after he sees she's being kept inside an isolated cell. Later she's even seen in a straightjacket.]]
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Hawkeye]]
* So why did Hawkeye [[spoiler: decide to come out of retirement?]] He never answered [[spoiler: Tony's question]].
** And did [[spoiler: Black Widow know he was gonna appear?]] She didn't seem surprised and [[spoiler: their brief fight]] was far from serious. Did Scarlet Witch [[spoiler: interfere]], knowing that Hawkeye [[spoiler: was holding back because he wasn't in the best fighting shape or because he didn't wanna hurt Natasha,]] or because she knew [[spoiler: their fight wasn't convincing?]]
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*** Nevertheless, one would expect more than [[spoiler: "What the hell happened?"]] and a glare from a man who never shuts up. Maybe Tony's not mad at [[spoiler: Vision and instead blames himself.]]


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** [[spoiler: Their original plan was to keep a low profile.]] But who knows about Vision. Maybe he's just floating in space? [[spoiler: Throughout the movie he just appears when he feels like it and it's not made clear what he does in his spare time, or if he's even within communication distance.]] As for War Machine, it's unknown if he can work outside the U.S.
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** After the fall, Tony gives [[spoiler: Vision]] a DeathGlare and later chides him when they are the hospital. He doesn't exactly let him get off easy.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Vision and War Machine in the opening scene]]
* Cap, Wanda, Natasha, and Sam take on Crossbones and his mercs at the beginning. Where were Vision and War Machine. According to ''Age of Ultron'', they are supposed to be members of the Avengers at this time. One would think Cap would bring them along as extra muscle.
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** Tony is already irrational. His anger is a way of absolving himself of any guilt for [[spoiler: recruiting the guy who was using deadly force]] in the first place.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Rhodey's fall]]
* Why is Tony mad at [[spoiler: Falcon when Vision is the one who accidentally shot Rhodey? Would it have been better if Vision had hit Falcon instead and most certainly caused Falcon's death due to the inadequate protection offered by Falcon's suit? Why wasn't Tony mad at Vision using deadly force?]]
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** In the movie it's explained that [[spoiler: Spidey can withstand a lot of physical force. Coupled with his fast reflexes, he's unlikely to get hurt or killed if facing against the Winter Soldier or Captain America.]] Moreover, [[spoiler: Stark never intended for Spidey to get involved with the actual fighting. Spidey was supposed to be working from the sidelines only.]]
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** Turns out [[spoiler: visiting the Smithsonian and going into hiding is exactly what he did. He's been slowly trying to piece the memories of his former life together and he didn't want to be found by anyone, friend or foe.]]
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-->[snip] "It’s the first thing I did when I got the Avengers [film] gig was write just scans of pages of arguments between Captain America and Iron Man, just sort of laying out who their characters were by how they couldn’t stand each other."
** To me that reads he had no specific intentions of making the MCU versions of these characters close 'friends'.
** It is entirely possible to still care deeply about someone you personally don't like being around. Plus, that's about Film/TheAvengers; Steve and Tony have had years to get to know one another better (and years for their underlying issues to start boiling over).

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-->[snip] "It’s "It's the first thing I did when I got the Avengers ''Avengers'' [film] gig was write just scans of pages of arguments between Captain America and Iron Man, just sort of laying out who their characters were by how they couldn’t stand each other."
** To me that reads he had no specific intentions of making the MCU versions of these characters close 'friends'.
"friends".
** It is entirely possible to still care deeply about someone you personally don't like being around. Plus, that's about Film/TheAvengers; Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}; Steve and Tony have had years to get to know one another better (and years for their underlying issues to start boiling over).

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** There's also the fact that, like most of the Avengers do in some way, Peter has ChronicHeroSyndrome. It's entirely possible he tried to sign up and Tony figures that as long as Spidey wants to get involved, it's best Tony do his best to keep him safe.[[note]]What's more surprising is that a millennial would opt to support the side supporting increased government oversight.[[/note]]

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** There's also the fact that, like most of the Avengers do in some way, Peter has ChronicHeroSyndrome. It's entirely possible he tried to sign up and Tony figures that as long as Spidey wants to get involved, it's best Tony do his best to keep him safe.[[note]]What's more surprising is that a millennial would opt to support the side supporting increased government oversight.oversight.
** Even if they don't have time to go into all the backstory, I bet it'll be similar to UltimateSpiderMan (both the comic and the cartoon). In those examples, Spidey starts off independent, but despite his well meaning nature, ends up causing a lot of property damage. However, since he's still well meaning (and stubborn enough that he'll continue doing what he's doing regardless of them trying to stop him), SHIELD figures that, instead of shutting him down, they should offer to train him instead. In the movies, it would make sense of Tony to be the one to make this offer since he's so keen on over sight following the Ultron incident. Allowing Spider Man to continue being Spider Man is fine, so long as there's accountability and everything is done by the book.
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There's no proof Spidey has fought any villains so far.


** Based on the Trailer the downtime parts of the story are Cap and Falcon locating Bucky and uncovering a Hydra plan. The Anti Reg heroes might be part of it too, but it's primarly a Captain America story. Iron Man is the antagonist and the other Pro Reg heroes are only going to show during fight scenes.

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** Based on the Trailer the downtime parts of the story are Cap and Falcon locating Bucky and uncovering a Hydra plan. The Anti Reg Anti-Reg heroes might be part of it too, but it's primarly primarily a Captain America story. Iron Man is the antagonist and the other Pro Reg heroes are only going to show during fight scenes.



** It is entirely possible to still care deeply about someone you personally don't like being around. Plus, that's about Film/TheAvengers; Steve and Tony have had years to get to know one another better (and years for their underlying issues to start boiling over).



** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. In this film his War Machine armor is lacking the US AF markings he usually has too, suggesting he's out of the air force for the moment.

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** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. In this film his War Machine armor is lacking the US AF markings he usually has too, suggesting he's out of the air force Air Force for the moment.






** I would say its a combination of Ross having friends in high places (which was how he got the revised super soldier serum in the first place I think), people in government thinking he was right about the Hulk being the property of the government or the threat Banner posed justified in the actions/crimes he committed, Ross blamed Blonsky for how out of control things got, Hydra strings being pulled (they might see him as being useful tool in the future for creating chaos or containing the Hulk), and good old dislike of Stark (who has been unpopular with the U.S. government since he started doing Iron Man thing) and Banner to take their word seriously, and some cover up. I'm sure Ross getting in this position and escaping punishment despite everything he did is going to be used to add fuel to why Cap doesn't think governments should have full control of the superhero crowd.
** Also we all know this, but who in universe knows all that he inadvertently caused with the Abomination and his rough tactics with Hulk except Banner himself, who's not there. Ross's reputation is solid, and nobody on the Avengers knows anything beyond he used to try to take in their friend when he ran around smashing stuff up.

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** I would say its a combination of Ross having friends in high places (which was how he got the revised super soldier serum in the first place I think), people in government thinking he was right about the Hulk being the property of the government or the threat Banner posed justified in the actions/crimes he committed, Ross blamed blaming Blonsky for how out of control things got, Hydra strings being pulled (they might see him as being useful tool in the future for creating chaos or containing the Hulk), and good old dislike of Stark (who has been unpopular with the U.S. government since he started doing the Iron Man thing) and Banner to take their word seriously, and some cover up. I'm sure Ross getting in this position and escaping punishment despite everything he did is going to be used to add fuel to why Cap doesn't think governments should have full control of the superhero crowd.
** Also we all know this, but who in universe knows all that he inadvertently caused with the Abomination and his rough tactics with Hulk except (except Banner himself, who's not there. there)? Ross's reputation is solid, and nobody on the Avengers knows anything beyond he used to try to take in their friend when he ran around smashing stuff up.



** People may not know the full details, but they are still scared, and it's easy to spread such things via the Internet - SHIELD being unraveled is equal to the Army undergoing the same, which would result in a loss of safety, increases in fear/anger/blame, and so forth. By-and-large, this would increase overall with each incident, but they're not the ones blaming the heroes; the officials + political people like Ross are, using the people's fear as fuel to do something about these events before anymore happen. Stopping Loki, taking down SHIELD, destroying the empty Sokovia, those were fairly-reasonable actions that would have prevented even more deaths... but something must still be done, and/or take the blame, in their reasoning.

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** People may not know the full details, but they are still scared, and it's easy to spread such things via the Internet - SHIELD being unraveled is equal to the Army undergoing the same, which would result in a loss of safety, increases in fear/anger/blame, and so forth. By-and-large, this would increase overall with each incident, but they're not the ones blaming the heroes; the officials + political people and politicians like Ross are, using the people's fear as fuel to do something about these events before anymore happen. Stopping Loki, taking down SHIELD, destroying the empty Sokovia, those were fairly-reasonable actions that would have prevented even more deaths... but something must still be done, and/or someone take the blame, in their reasoning.



** Spider-Man has more physical skills than any avenger and his superpowers also hive the team a huge advantage, so when it comes to this and taking in count that he has fought more villains than any other it's pretty reasonable that Tony wanted him in his team no mather how old he is.

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** Spider-Man has more physical skills than any avenger Avenger and his superpowers also hive give the team a huge advantage, so when it comes to this and taking in count that he has fought more villains than any other it's pretty reasonable that Tony wanted would want him in on his team no mather matter how old he is.



*** Considering the suit we saw is the one that was made by Tony, he had to know Peters exact meassurements to make it. Even if visually with a costume Peter might pass for a small adult, there's no way that he would without it.

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*** Considering the suit we saw is the one that was made by Tony, he had to know Peters exact meassurements measurements to make it. Even if visually with a costume Peter might pass for a small adult, there's no way that he would without it.it.
** There's also the fact that, like most of the Avengers do in some way, Peter has ChronicHeroSyndrome. It's entirely possible he tried to sign up and Tony figures that as long as Spidey wants to get involved, it's best Tony do his best to keep him safe.[[note]]What's more surprising is that a millennial would opt to support the side supporting increased government oversight.[[/note]]
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** Context is important for some of his more drastic decisions. His chasing of Banner may have been unofficially approved to keep the Hulk's existence a secret. He was also at least mindful the super soldier project could conceivably blow up in his face so tried to be cautious with deploying Blonsky (him becoming Abomination was due to Blonsky's own actions, not Ross' idea). Ross ''was'' acting in his capacity as a member of the US military and the bare bones of the situation did line up with sound reasoning so he could have avoided serious repercussions due to things just backfiring in his face, at least as far his involvement with Blonsky was concerned.
** The President may just want Ross where he can keep an eye on him. As a normal general Ross could work more under the radar but as Secretary of State, especially with the reveal of HYDRA corruption in the American Government and taking into account his past actions, he would be watched very carefully.
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*** Considering the suit we saw is the one that was made by Tony, he had to know Peters exact meassurements to make it. Even if visually with a costume Peter might pass for a small adult, there's no way that he would without it.
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** Presumably much of the blame is also aimed at super''villains'', not ''just'' heroes; however, with incidents like the Hulk trashing a major city and [=SHIELD=] going rogue due to infiltrators, it's getting harder for non-supers to trust the latter not to turn into and/or act like the former.
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** Who says Stark even knows that Spidey is a high school kid? He may have only seen him in costume, and think he's just a grown man with a slight build and a young-sounding voice.
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** Spider-Man has more physical skills than any avenger and his superpowers also hive the team a huge advantage, so when it comes to this and taking in count that he has fought more villains than any other it's pretty reasonable that Tony wanted him in his team no mather how old he is.
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*To quote [[http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/whedon-reveals-how-authority-influenced-his-upcoming-captain-america-story Whedon]]
-->[snip] "It’s the first thing I did when I got the Avengers [film] gig was write just scans of pages of arguments between Captain America and Iron Man, just sort of laying out who their characters were by how they couldn’t stand each other."
**To me that reads he had no specific intentions of making the MCU versions of these characters close 'friends'.
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** Also we all know this, but who in universe knows all that he inadvertently caused with the Abomination and his rough tactics with Hulk except Banner himself, who's not there. Ross's reputation is solid, and nobody on the Avengers knows anything beyond he used to try to take in their friend when he ran around smashing stuff up.
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** He also probably thinks Spidey would be a good example of what he thinks the accords can do. Molding a 15 year old in a cheap get up beating up cooks in alley's into a major hero with his and the governments backing.

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*** People have no idea Stark created Ultron, that Wanda influenced him, or that the battle of New York was caused because of Loki's anger towards Thor. Plus the loss of SHIELD is likely not a price too high to save the life of potencially millions of people.

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*** ** People have no idea Stark created Ultron, that Wanda influenced him, or that the battle of New York was caused because of Loki's anger towards Thor. Plus the loss of SHIELD is likely not a price too high to save the life of potencially potentially millions of people.people.
** People may not know the full details, but they are still scared, and it's easy to spread such things via the Internet - SHIELD being unraveled is equal to the Army undergoing the same, which would result in a loss of safety, increases in fear/anger/blame, and so forth. By-and-large, this would increase overall with each incident, but they're not the ones blaming the heroes; the officials + political people like Ross are, using the people's fear as fuel to do something about these events before anymore happen. Stopping Loki, taking down SHIELD, destroying the empty Sokovia, those were fairly-reasonable actions that would have prevented even more deaths... but something must still be done, and/or take the blame, in their reasoning.

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