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**** Well, that's also where differences in opinion come in, as I personally don't agree
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**** Someone that ''willfully'' self-absorbed is scary, not heartbreaking.
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*** That's just his character; he's egotistical, narcissistic, and never changes/tones it down until he's forced to... and even when he does, he still acts like one at the core, still knowing that he is one throughout. We might not agree with it or like it, but from that point-of-view, Tony sincerely believes what he said ("So was I"), and that's what makes it heart-breaking.
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Changed line(s) 29,30 (click to see context) from:
**** Which is what bothers people in the first place, Tony ''knows'' he's egotistical and narcissistic and ''doesn't do anything about it.'' He acts like he's ''justified'' in his egotism when he knows he isn't.
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** Is Rhodes still in the Air Force? Because if so wouldn't the Avengers already more or less be under US Government control, they wouldn't allow an active duty officer to go around getting into fights unless it was authorized first.
*** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. In this film his War Machine armor is lacking the US AF markings he usually has too, suggesting he's out of the air force for the moment.
*** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. In this film his War Machine armor is lacking the US AF markings he usually has too, suggesting he's out of the air force for the moment.
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** Tony is also the sort of guy who bonds over vitriol. He regularly teases his friends and often mocks them. Between the two Avengers movies, we see him cracking jokes at Thor, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. He also playfully jabbed Banner to see if he'd Hulk-out (Banner seemingly being the Avenger who finds it the most endearing). In his own movies, Tony gives Rhodey and Pepper a hard time as often as he can. Oh, and let's not forget his relationship with Fury and Coulson. Steve is not treated any differently than any of his other friends.
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**** Which is what bothers people in the first place, Tony ''knows'' he's egotistical and narcissistic and ''doesn't do anything about it.'' He acts like he's ''justified'' in his egotism when he knows he isn't.
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*** Tony, well, looks at everything with an egotistical eye. He is high on the scale of self pre-occupation, and probably sees more than there might actually be... then Cap goes and chooses Bucky over him, dismissing what Tony believes is the right thing to boot, and they both know Cap isn't the type of person who will yield. It doesn't take much to feel the perceived betrayal/hurt
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** What bothers some is not that their friendship was vitriolic, but that if Tony really was as good a friend to Steve as he claims he should have known better when it came to Bucky.
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*** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. Also the War Machine armor no longer has the US AF markings it had in Iron Man 3 (which included Rhodes name rank serial number and the ID of the base he was operating out of) which suggests he's retired or on leave for the moment.
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*** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. Also the In this film his War Machine armor no longer has is lacking the US AF markings it had in Iron Man 3 (which included Rhodes name rank serial number and the ID of the base he was operating out of) which suggests usually has too, suggesting he's retired or on leave out of the air force for the moment.
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** Based on the Trailer the downtime parts of the story are Cap and Falcon locating Bucky and uncovering a Hydra plan. The Anti Reg heroes might be part of it too, but it's primarly a Captain America story. Iron Man is the antagonist and the other Pro Reg heroes are only going to show during fight scenes.
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** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. Also the War Machine armor no longer has the US AF markings it had in Iron Man 3 (which included Rhodes name rank serial number and the ID of the base he was operating out of) which suggests he's retired or on leave for the moment.
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** Unknown. In Age of Ultron he's hanging around in New York and later goes to help Fury get his Helicarrier back in the air and assists the Avengers as War Machine before joining up with the team at the end. He shouldn't be able to do any of that if he's on duty at his stationed base on the West Coast. Also the War Machine armor no longer has the US AF markings it had in Iron Man 3 (which included Rhodes name rank serial number and the ID of the base he was operating out of) which suggests he's retired or on leave for the moment.
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Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
** Is Rhodes still in the Air Force? Because if so wouldn't the Avengers already more or less be under US Government control, they wouldn't allow an active duty officer to go around getting into fights unless it was authorized first.
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** Is Rhodes still in the Air Force? Because if so wouldn't the Avengers already more or less be under US Government control, they wouldn't allow an active duty officer to go around getting into fights unless it was authorized first.first.
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[[folder: Rhodes status]]
**Is Rhodes still in the Air Force? Because if so wouldn't the Avengers already more or less be under US Government control, they wouldn't allow an active duty officer to go around getting into fights unless it was authorized first.
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** Because at he forefront of the movie , is Captain America and his place in the World. Captain America's actions and choices is what help caused the conflict. The war is result of him not being a good soldier and obeying orders, especially orders he doesn't agree with. Its a Captain America story , played on a World stage.
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** Because at he the forefront of the movie , is Captain America and his place in the World. world. Captain America's actions and choices is what help caused helped cause the conflict. The war is the result of him not being a good soldier and obeying orders, especially orders he doesn't agree with. Its It's a Captain America story , story, played on a World world stage.
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** Also as some people have pointed out Tony might think he has more of a friendship with Cap than he really does. He does after all have kind of an ego and is kind of jerk to the people that he is friends with. He might not really think friendship from years ago with a guy who since was a murderous assassin for decades who's victims included Tony's own parents, is worth going renegade and fighting him for and feel geniunely betrayed. We don't see Steve's response. Maybe he says he's not nearly close enough to Tony to turn on Bucky for him.
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** Also as some people have pointed out Tony might think he has more of a friendship with Cap than he really does. He does after all have kind of an ego and is kind of jerk to the people that he is friends with. He might not really think friendship from years ago with a guy who since was a murderous assassin for decades who's victims included Tony's own parents, is worth going renegade and fighting him for and feel geniunely genuinely betrayed. We don't see Steve's response. Maybe he says he's not nearly close enough to Tony to turn on Bucky for him.him.
** Rewatching ''The First Avenger'', Bucky and Steve's friendship was a little vitrolic too, but in a friendly way. That's just how Steve bonds. He teased Sam and Peggy too.
-->'''Bucky''': Look, just don't do anything stupid before I get back.
-->'''Steve''': How can I? You're taking all the stupid with you?
-->'''Bucky''': (''hugging Steve'') You're a punk.
-->'''Steve''': Jerk.
** Rewatching ''The First Avenger'', Bucky and Steve's friendship was a little vitrolic too, but in a friendly way. That's just how Steve bonds. He teased Sam and Peggy too.
-->'''Bucky''': Look, just don't do anything stupid before I get back.
-->'''Steve''': How can I? You're taking all the stupid with you?
-->'''Bucky''': (''hugging Steve'') You're a punk.
-->'''Steve''': Jerk.
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** Also as some people have pointed out Tony might think he has more of a friendship with Cap than he really does. He does after all have kind of an ego and is kind of jerk to the people that he is friends with. He might not really think friendship from years ago with a guy who since was a murderous assassin for decades who's victims included Tony's own parents, is worth going renegade and fighting him for and feel geniunely betrayed. We don't see Steve's response. Maybe he says he's not nearly close enough to Tony to turn on Bucky for him.
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title fix
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[[folder: "I was too"]]
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[[folder: "I "So was too"]]I"]]
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** ^People don't need to be buddy-buddy, or even overly-friendly, to be friends - sometimes respect + being on the same side are enough for that, even if by technicality.
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Since when were Steve and Tony friends in this continuity? Basically every moment of their screentime, when they're not kicking Hydra/Chitauri/Ultron ass together, is them arguing back and forth and butting heads. At best, they've shown a grudging respect for each other and that when push comes to shove they can put aside their differences to work together. Even in the party scene in AOU, which was supposed to be the giant group-huggy feel-good time, they mostly interact with their assorted teammates and seemed to avoid each other as much as possible. Where is this friendship line even coming from?
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* Since when were Steve and Tony friends in this continuity? Basically every moment of their screentime, when they're not kicking Hydra/Chitauri/Ultron ass together, is them arguing back and forth and butting heads. At best, they've shown a grudging respect for each other and that when push comes to shove they can put aside their differences to work together. Even in the party scene in AOU, which was supposed to be the giant group-huggy feel-good time, they mostly interact with their assorted teammates and seemed to avoid each other as much as possible. Where is this friendship line even coming from?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: "I was too"]]
Since when were Steve and Tony friends in this continuity? Basically every moment of their screentime, when they're not kicking Hydra/Chitauri/Ultron ass together, is them arguing back and forth and butting heads. At best, they've shown a grudging respect for each other and that when push comes to shove they can put aside their differences to work together. Even in the party scene in AOU, which was supposed to be the giant group-huggy feel-good time, they mostly interact with their assorted teammates and seemed to avoid each other as much as possible. Where is this friendship line even coming from?
[[folder: "I was too"]]
Since when were Steve and Tony friends in this continuity? Basically every moment of their screentime, when they're not kicking Hydra/Chitauri/Ultron ass together, is them arguing back and forth and butting heads. At best, they've shown a grudging respect for each other and that when push comes to shove they can put aside their differences to work together. Even in the party scene in AOU, which was supposed to be the giant group-huggy feel-good time, they mostly interact with their assorted teammates and seemed to avoid each other as much as possible. Where is this friendship line even coming from?
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** Because at he forefront of the movie , is Captain America and his place in the World. Captain America's actions and choices is what help caused the conflict. The war is result of him not being a good soldier and obeying orders, especially orders he doesn't agree with. Its a Captain America story , played on a World stage.
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** Not only that Natasha is both a realist and a pragmatist. She has probably anticipated the accords coming and was ready for them. As a spy the big picture and endgame is always forefront in her mind. What she did not anticipate was how much she and Steve would bond, or that Steve would stand against the government.
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* With so many characters jam packed into one movie, why is it called Captain America: Civil War? Wouldn't it make more sense to call the film Marvel Civil War?
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* With so many characters jam packed into one movie, why is it called Captain America: Civil War? Wouldn't it make more sense to call the film Marvel Civil War?War?
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[[folder: The Film's Title]]
*With so many characters jam packed into one movie, why is it called Captain America: Civil War? Wouldn't it make more sense to call the film Marvel Civil War?
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** She's also all about redeeming herself and going on the straight-and-narrow to make up for her past, and made all her info public at the end. Plus the conflict isn't about not superheroing, but superheroing independently vs. under government supervision.
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* Remember Natasha's speech at the end of Winter Soldier? About how superheroes cause a lot of trouble, but they always save the day in the end? Wouldn't it make more sense for her to be on Steve's side?
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* Remember Natasha's speech at the end of Winter Soldier? About how superheroes cause a lot of trouble, but they always save the day in the end? Wouldn't it make more sense for her to be on Steve's side?side?
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[[folder: Natasha's side]]
*Remember Natasha's speech at the end of Winter Soldier? About how superheroes cause a lot of trouble, but they always save the day in the end? Wouldn't it make more sense for her to be on Steve's side?
*Remember Natasha's speech at the end of Winter Soldier? About how superheroes cause a lot of trouble, but they always save the day in the end? Wouldn't it make more sense for her to be on Steve's side?
