History Headscratchers / BuffyverseVampires

16th Nov '17 8:32:00 PM Luppercus
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*** We don't know if the chip is complex enough to allow exceptions like self-defense, and he could have consented but the alternative to not consent is not pretty. The Initiative was more humane over demons and vampires, not because they consider them people but because they consider them animals, thus applying the basic ethic protocols that scientists normally apply to animals. That's why they are caged, fed and not generally mistreated except for experimentation. Not the best from their perspective but a better treatment that the one the Watchers' give. Yet, before technology was advanced enough the only alternative to the chip other than killing the vampires would be to keep them locked indefinitely (as they are immortal) whilst constantly providing them of a daily ration of human or at least animal blood. Which sounds incredibly expensive and difficult to do. Especially because any new vampire would have to be accommodate in there too with an exponential growing of the inmates population that would never die or rehabilitate, would require a liquid that is very difficult to find and provide (especially before the existence of modern medicine) and would become a risk in the case of escape because you’ll have hundreds of angry violent mass murderers in the same area (which is exactly what happened, and granted the cause was Adam's actions but even without Adam in the equation the risk a containtment failure is always a possibility). No wonder why no one attempted that before, the logistic alone is quite difficult and it will require humungous amounts of effort, money and time and all of that just to be humane over the fate of creatures that torture humans for fun and may have kill people you know and will kill you if they ever escape, if you're lucky and they don't torture you first. Add to that that many vampires may prefer death than be caged forever, and who can blame them? Thus, although it can't be blame on no one to not ever have thought in containing vampires instead of killing them in less technologically advanced times, the chip is indeed more humane, and yet it almost drove Spike to suicide, and Spike is the more empathic (or least psychopathic) non-souled vampire we know.
16th Nov '17 8:08:45 AM tafelshrew
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*** You're right - and it turned out to work (although ideally the chip would have allowed Spike to fight back against humans in self-defence (and even more ideally they'd have got his consent to implant it), but that's what R&D is for). The Initiative failed because they made an evil demon cyborg, not because of their efforts with Spike.
13th Nov '17 8:21:20 AM Luppercus
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*** Well, that's what the Initiative did. They kept them alive and fed for a lot of time instead of outright killing them until they could figure out how to stop them from harming others without killing them (resulting in the development of the chip). And we know how that turn out to be...
13th Nov '17 3:23:59 AM tafelshrew
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*** Probably the same rules that mean Angel and Spike needed invitations to Buffy and Willow's campus dorm room. The room was technically owned by the university, but it was assigned to and inhabited by Buffy and Willow, which counts more in a mystical context.
13th Nov '17 3:10:46 AM tafelshrew
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*** Okay, use "sapient" instead of "sentient". If computers or corpses ever become sapient, the only reason not to consider them people would be straight-up FantasticRacism. Vampires are psychopaths (except for Spike's emergent empathy), but psychopaths are still people, and it would be more humane and ethical for the Watchers' Council to figure out a way to give them due process and imprison or execute them the way we treat human psychopaths. Buffy, though, is mostly doing her best under the system she's stuck with, so I think the Watchers, the Initiative, and any other large nebulous organisations aware of the supernatural are the ones to blame here.
8th Aug '17 10:27:26 AM BobBrom
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*** See personally I've always thought it was older than that. That the Ancient Romans probably used crosses as an execution method because they killed vampires. Think about it back 2000 years ago Ancient Rome was probably ripe with vampires the same way LA is in Angel. Not knowing what they were and thinking they were just criminals that were very hard to kill they devise an execution method that kills them as well as ordinary criminals. Then one day this guy named Jesus was killed this way maybe because the Romans saw he was kind of supernatural and was a criminal and just wanted to make sure. Then suddenly it becomes a symbol for Christianity.
16th Apr '17 7:18:35 AM KaminoNeko
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** Vamps are actually pretty flimsy as demons go. Sure, they can only be killed by a handful of specific methods, but they are ridiculously vulnerable to those methods - the sunlight is, itself, a huge vulnerability that few (if any) other demons have. Stakes? As soon as something pointy and wood touches their chest with the pointy end mostly pointed at the heart, they suddenly completely lack a sternum and the soft tissue has the structural integrity of an overfilled water balloon. (And this isn't a 'Slayer Strength' thing, since we've seen ordinary mortals do it on more than one occasion.) Beheading? As soon as something sharp hits the neck, again, bye-bye bones, hello water balloon. (And again, normal people have been shown vorpalizing vamps, instead of hacking away, so not just Slayer Strength...though that trick with the cymbal at the Bronze in season 1 is probably something only a Slayer could pull off.)
31st Jan '17 4:20:11 AM Luppercus
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*** Not really. Several animals like chimps have sentience, we still don't consider them persons. Psychopaths have sentience but are incapable of feeling remorse, guilt or empathy (that's why they are so hard to handle as only the fear of punishment works and most of them get the death penalty anyway), is possible that some day computers may develop sentience and we probably still won't consider them persons. Sentience do not mean having morals or empathy, which is what all vampires lack (as they lack souls with the exceptions that we all know).
31st Jan '17 3:14:03 AM tafelshrew
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*** ''And retains self-awareness/sentience''. That's kind of more important in "is it a person" than "does it age or have a heartbeat".
22nd Oct '16 1:04:34 AM Luppercus
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** No, because a person is a living human being tht grows old. A vampire is a re-animated corpse, like a zombie, with two key differences; do not rot and is forever frozen on the age of his/hers death and retains self-awareness/sentience whatever you want to call it.
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