History Headscratchers / BatmanBegins

8th Aug '16 6:43:48 PM TheNewBig
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*** [[CompletelyMissingThePoint Hehe. Harvey Dent had more nuts than Bruce Wayne.]]



** There's very little else he could have done. at least he got his point of "i don't condone your actions" across really well this way. and though the chance may be very small at least this way the farmer may have gotten out.
** "Innocent League members"? Considering that the only way to enter the League appears to be ''killing someone'', I doubt the "innocence" of any League agent.
** Despite the fact that Bruce's actions led to a lot of people dying, I suppose there's a difference for Bruce between putting people in deadly situations and personally killing them. Alas, this is the same MoralDissonance that seems to prevent him from saving Ra's...
*** We didn't see anyone die (or I didn't, anyway) except for [[spoiler:In-Name-Only Ra's al-Ghul]], who brought himself down by not minding his surroundings and therefore placing himself in a lethal position. Remember who these guys are. They're too well trained to be likely to die because of a relatively (for them) simple threat like a burning building. As for the criminal, I don't think we know what happened to him and we shouldn't just assume.
*** As for not saving Ra's, there's just no escaping that he will keep trying to destroy Gotham until he's dead, coupled with the fact that he would already be dead if not for Bruce's earlier action. He did save the similarly-destructive Joker, but by then he's built his code a little more, Joker dared him to kill him, he never saved Joker before, and, well, JokerImmunity.
*** Of course, Bruce ACTIVELY TOSSED JOKER OUT A WINDOW.
** This was before Batman got his strict code of honor, maybe it was the event that gave him that code of honor. But in either case, he probably didn't have any problem with killing if he felt it would help the greater good, and the League is obviously evil.
** Isn't he told that after he kills the farmer he will lead the League of Shadows against Gotham? I always thought that was the main reason for the ensuing kaboom. The fact that he was asked to kill a man without "due process" was almost exclusively to segue into the destruction, under his leadership, of the city he had promised himself he would save.
** It's very brief, but there's a quick shot of Bruce shoving the prisoner out of the way after he knocks out Ducard. In the next clip we VERY briefly see the prisoner run for stage-right.
** I always suspected that Bruce thought the execution was a test, and that saying "no" was what Ducard really wanted. It was only later that he decided that was really the right answer.
** Someone in the FridgeBrilliance section offered an interesting hypothesis: ''Batman'' doesn't kill. Bruce Wayne, at least up until that battle, potentially could. After all, they do chuck him into solitary to protect the rest of the Chinese prison...
** The only solution I could come to when thinking about this (as the scene was happening) is that if Bruce/Batman is a consequentialist, then he is a utilitarian. Either that or he's a kind of, sort of, loosely re-defined deontologist (e.g. It is my duty/obligation not to kill people. In order not to kill anybody and simultaneously protect myself I will burn down this building; should somebody happen to die in the process it is not my fault because they did not die by my hand directly).
** Batman's "No Killing" Rule applies more to direct killing, not indirect. He will never actively stab or shoot someone, but if, theoretically, he does something like ram a garbage truck head-on and the driver of that truck dies from his injuries, so be it.

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** There's very little else he could have done. at least he got his point of "i don't condone your actions" across really well this way. and though the chance may be very small at least this way For one, the farmer may have gotten out.
** "Innocent League members"? Considering that the only way to enter the League appears to be ''killing someone'', I doubt the "innocence" of any League agent.
** Despite the fact that Bruce's actions led to a lot of people dying, I suppose there's a difference
survived, for Bruce between putting people in deadly situations and personally killing them. Alas, this is the same MoralDissonance that seems to prevent him from saving Ra's...
*** We didn't see anyone die (or I didn't, anyway) except for [[spoiler:In-Name-Only Ra's al-Ghul]], who brought himself down by not minding his surroundings and therefore placing himself in a lethal position. Remember who these guys are. They're too well trained to be likely to die because of a relatively (for them) simple threat like a burning building. As for the criminal, I don't think we know what happened to him and we shouldn't just assume.
*** As for not saving Ra's, there's just no escaping that he will keep trying to destroy Gotham until he's dead, coupled with the fact that he would already be dead if not for Bruce's earlier action. He did save the similarly-destructive Joker, but by then he's built his code a little more, Joker dared him to kill him, he never saved Joker before, and, well, JokerImmunity.
*** Of course, Bruce ACTIVELY TOSSED JOKER OUT A WINDOW.
** This was before Batman got his strict code of honor, maybe it was the event that gave him that code of honor. But in either case, he probably didn't have any problem with killing if he felt it would help the greater good, and
two, the League is obviously evil.
** Isn't he told that after he kills the farmer he will lead the League
a group organization, all of Shadows against Gotham? I always thought that was the main reason for the ensuing kaboom. The fact that he was asked whom are party to kill it's criminal acts, and three, there is a man without "due process" was almost exclusively to segue into the destruction, under his leadership, of the city he had promised himself he would save.
** It's very brief, but there's a quick shot of Bruce shoving the prisoner out of the way after he knocks out Ducard. In the next clip we VERY briefly see the prisoner run for stage-right.
** I always suspected that Bruce thought the
''huge'' difference between partaking in intentional, cold-blooded execution was as a test, gang initiation,(murder) and creating a dangerous situation that saying ''could'' kill some of the professional assassins who certainly don't plan to take "no" for an answer. He was what Ducard really wanted. It was only later choosing the option that he decided that was really the right answer.
** Someone in the FridgeBrilliance section offered an interesting hypothesis: ''Batman'' doesn't kill. Bruce Wayne, at least up until that battle, potentially could. After all, they do chuck him into solitary
best served to protect the rest of the Chinese prison...
** The only solution I could come to when thinking about this (as the scene was happening) is
that if Bruce/Batman is a consequentialist, then he is a utilitarian. Either that or he's a kind of, sort of, loosely re-defined deontologist (e.g. It is my duty/obligation not to kill people. In order not to kill anybody man's life, his own life, and simultaneously protect myself I will burn down this building; should somebody happen to die in the process it is not my fault because they did not die by my hand directly).
** Batman's "No Killing" Rule applies more to direct killing, not indirect. He will never actively stab or shoot someone, but if, theoretically, he does something like ram a garbage truck head-on and the driver of that truck dies from his injuries, so be it.
Gotham's safety.
21st Jun '16 7:42:01 AM DoctorNemesis
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*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with.

to:

*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with. As for Ra's specifically, he's about to destroy the whole city, so why exactly should Bruce give a crap if he feels awkward about him using his 'Batman' voice?
21st Jun '16 7:39:49 AM DoctorNemesis
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*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up before a fight. In any case, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with.

to:

*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up before a fight. In any case, while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with.
21st Jun '16 7:39:13 AM DoctorNemesis
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Added DiffLines:

*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up before a fight. In any case, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with.
21st Jun '16 7:32:27 AM DoctorNemesis
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** Dude calls his alter ego ''Bat''man. Bats are kind of his motif. It's RuleOfSymbolism.

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** Dude calls his alter ego ''Bat''man.'''Bat'''man. Bats are kind of his motif. It's RuleOfSymbolism.
2nd Jun '16 8:15:00 PM costanton11
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Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
[[folder:Bruce using his Batman voice around Ras in the train sequence]]
* I find it odd that Bruce is talking in his Batman voice even though Ras already figured out his identity.
** He uses his Batman voice when he's being Batman. What's odd about that at all?
*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have been awkward for Ras and the others. Don't tell me you would not feel weird if someone you know was doing the voice even after finding out his identity.
24th Mar '16 11:09:14 PM SuperMagneto
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Bruce using his Batman voice around Ras in the train sequence]]
* I find it odd that Bruce is talking in his Batman voice even though Ras already figured out his identity.
** He uses his Batman voice when he's being Batman. What's odd about that at all?
*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have been awkward for Ras and the others. Don't tell me you would not feel weird if someone you know was doing the voice even after finding out his identity.
24th Mar '16 10:48:10 PM SuperMagneto
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*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have been awkward for Ras and the others.

to:

*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have been awkward for Ras and the others. Don't tell me you would not feel weird if someone you know was doing the voice even after finding out his identity.
24th Mar '16 10:45:49 PM SuperMagneto
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*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have been awkward for Ras. I'm surprised he wasn't thrown off by it.

to:

*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have been awkward for Ras. I'm surprised he wasn't thrown off by it.Ras and the others.
24th Mar '16 10:41:57 PM SuperMagneto
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*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have be awkward for Ras. I'm surprised he wasn't thrown off by it.

to:

*** It's the fact that he does the Batman voice around people who already knows his identity. It may not be a big deal out-of-universe, but in-universe, it must have be been awkward for Ras. I'm surprised he wasn't thrown off by it.
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