History Headscratchers / BatmanBegins

24th Oct '17 9:11:37 PM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** And before anyone takes the "maybe she doesn't want to be with a man constantly in danger" excuse, remember this is Gotham. According to the first film, people get mugged every day of the week. Out of everyone, Bruce is probably the safest man in Gotham, with his martial arts training and his full body armour. Not to mention in ''Film/TheDarkKnight'', Rachel jumps right into bed with Harvey, a man in just as much danger, being the D.A, and much less capable of defending himself.

to:

** And before anyone takes the "maybe she doesn't want to be with a man constantly in danger" excuse, remember this is Gotham. According to the first film, people get mugged every day of the week. Out of everyone, Bruce is probably the safest man in Gotham, with his martial arts training and his full body armour.armor. Not to mention in ''Film/TheDarkKnight'', Rachel jumps right into bed with Harvey, a man in just as much danger, being the D.A, and much less capable of defending himself.



*** Makes a kind of sense. Even after being blasted all over the place most of the citzens are less messed up than Bats was after one dose. Clearly the stuff in the pipes is much less concentrated than Crane's personal weapon.

to:

*** Makes a kind of sense. Even after being blasted all over the place most of the citzens citizens are less messed up than Bats was after one dose. Clearly the stuff in the pipes is much less concentrated than Crane's personal weapon.



** And while we're on the subject of water supplies, how would the plan to have poisoned the water supply rally work? Especially considering water pipes are presurized, so when cut open like that, water would gush out instead of letting anyone put stuff in it. They would have had to have put the drug in closer to the intake cribs.

to:

** And while we're on the subject of water supplies, how would the plan to have poisoned the water supply rally work? Especially considering water pipes are presurized, pressurized, so when cut open like that, water would gush out instead of letting anyone put stuff in it. They would have had to have put the drug in closer to the intake cribs.



*** Scarecrow's in-comics backstory had him growing up on a farm, so it's not implausible, heck, it's even probable that he had learned to ride. Pluse, this doubles as one of the few [[MythologyGag mythology gags]] that continuity-hating Chris Nolan would allow, I suppose.

to:

*** Scarecrow's in-comics backstory had him growing up on a farm, so it's not implausible, heck, it's even probable that he had learned to ride. Pluse, Plus, this doubles as one of the few [[MythologyGag mythology gags]] that continuity-hating Chris Nolan would allow, I suppose.



** It was a hidden zipline. It's ''supposed'' to look like he literally flies straight up into the sky. It's like in [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5wcxnUcgDw this clip]] from the Tim Burton movie. At about 1:34 it ''looks'' like Batman levitates down out of nowhere, and at 3:00 it ''looks'' like Batman steps off the edge of a building and then vanishes. We can't see a zipline or a grapple either time, but it's implied that that's what Batman was using.

to:

** It was a hidden zipline.zip-line. It's ''supposed'' to look like he literally flies straight up into the sky. It's like in [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5wcxnUcgDw this clip]] from the Tim Burton movie. At about 1:34 it ''looks'' like Batman levitates down out of nowhere, and at 3:00 it ''looks'' like Batman steps off the edge of a building and then vanishes. We can't see a zipline zip-line or a grapple either time, but it's implied that that's what Batman was using.



** The movie states definitively that Ra's is Ducard's true identity. Bruce says, in response to 'Is Ra's Al-Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?', 'Or cheap parlour tricks to conceal your true identity, Ra's'.

to:

** The movie states definitively that Ra's is Ducard's true identity. Bruce says, in response to 'Is Ra's Al-Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?', 'Or cheap parlour parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, Ra's'.



** As for your question, I wonder myself. But as to the name of the league, I'm pretty sure that in the comics the League of Assassains is a ''division'' of the League of Shadows.

to:

** As for your question, I wonder myself. But as to the name of the league, I'm pretty sure that in the comics the League of Assassains Assassins is a ''division'' of the League of Shadows.



*** They go to lengths showing that it would take two seperate, large orders to put Batman's cowl together - I imagine ordering about ten thousand pieces of metal shaped pre-cut to be shaped like a bat, of all things, would look rather suspicious when Batman gets known by the public.

to:

*** They go to lengths showing that it would take two seperate, separate, large orders to put Batman's cowl together - I imagine ordering about ten thousand pieces of metal shaped pre-cut to be shaped like a bat, of all things, would look rather suspicious when Batman gets known by the public.



** If Crime Alley is anything like it is in the comics, then it was originally a very ritzy neighbourhood. Also, it could be a very large opera house, therefore having a front entrance in a very respectable street.

to:

** If Crime Alley is anything like it is in the comics, then it was originally a very ritzy neighbourhood.neighborhood. Also, it could be a very large opera house, therefore having a front entrance in a very respectable street.



*** Seconded, and this might veer a bit into fridge brilliance but one of the key things that helped London rise from the ashes into the defactor primate city of *the world* WAS the fact that the fire destroyed the rat-filled slums of the city which were the driving force behind seasonal resurrections of the Black Plague.
*** Its also worth considering that at the time of the Fire, England was in the middle of the [[RestorationComedy Restoration]] period, which is often considered one of the most hedonistic periods of English history. The King at the time, Charles II had [[ReallyGetsAround at least 8 mistresses]], meaning the League may well have concluded England had reached the 'pinnacle of its decadence' as Ra's put it. Alternatively, and this is getting into WMG territory, since the decadence of the Restoration is often considered a reaction to the puritanism of the English Republic under OliverCromwell, maybe the League had a role in his victory in the UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar, hoping that Cromwell's new republic would provide an example of 'how man was meant to live', given Cromwell's similar KnightTemplar behaviour. Then when in 1660 Charles II was invited to take back the throne, the 17th century Ra's Al Ghul may well have decided England was beyond saving, and decided to [[KillItWithFire make an example of its capital]].

to:

*** Seconded, and this might veer a bit into fridge brilliance but one of the key things that helped London rise from the ashes into the defactor primate defacto prime city of *the world* WAS the fact that the fire destroyed the rat-filled slums of the city which were the driving force behind seasonal resurrections of the Black Plague.
*** Its also worth considering that at the time of the Fire, England was in the middle of the [[RestorationComedy Restoration]] period, which is often considered one of the most hedonistic periods of English history. The King at the time, Charles II had [[ReallyGetsAround at least 8 mistresses]], meaning the League may well have concluded England had reached the 'pinnacle of its decadence' as Ra's put it. Alternatively, and this is getting into WMG territory, since the decadence of the Restoration is often considered a reaction to the puritanism of the English Republic under OliverCromwell, maybe the League had a role in his victory in the UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar, hoping that Cromwell's new republic would provide an example of 'how man was meant to live', given Cromwell's similar KnightTemplar behaviour.behavior. Then when in 1660 Charles II was invited to take back the throne, the 17th century Ra's Al Ghul may well have decided England was beyond saving, and decided to [[KillItWithFire make an example of its capital]].



* So there's an active microwave emiter that's instantly vaporizing water buried underground, in metal pipes, as it passes. And why does it not instantly kill Batman and all the League Members standing all around it, including directly in front of it, by instantly evaporating all the water in their bodies?

to:

* So there's an active microwave emiter emitter that's instantly vaporizing water buried underground, in metal pipes, as it passes. And why does it not instantly kill Batman and all the League Members standing all around it, including directly in front of it, by instantly evaporating all the water in their bodies?



** It's also, to be fair, still a superhero action movie. A superhero movie that tries to play things a bit more down-to-earth, perhaps, but a superhero action movie nonetheless. Crazy superweapons that shouldn't work but somehow do are not uncommon in either genre. At some point, you have to chalk it up to WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief that it has some kind of wing-doodle in it (possibly designed by those fine folks at Lexcorp or something) or that manages to prevent prevent water within living beings from vapourising as well.

to:

** It's also, to be fair, still a superhero action movie. A superhero movie that tries to play things a bit more down-to-earth, perhaps, but a superhero action movie nonetheless. Crazy superweapons super weapons that shouldn't work but somehow do are not uncommon in either genre. At some point, you have to chalk it up to WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief that it has some kind of wing-doodle in it (possibly designed by those fine folks at Lexcorp or something) or that manages to prevent prevent water within living beings from vapourising vaporizing as well.



** Also, Batman kind of has bigger fish to fry on his plate at that point; there's weird insane-fear drugs being brought into the city for some shadowy cabal's nefarious purposes, after all. He kind of has to prioritise.

to:

** Also, Batman kind of has bigger fish to fry on his plate at that point; there's weird insane-fear drugs being brought into the city for some shadowy cabal's nefarious purposes, after all. He kind of has to prioritise.prioritize.



* Why didn't Dr. Crane think to immunize himself to his own poison? Given that he uses it by spraying it into the air, he must have breathed it in by accident a few times. And given that he apparently created or at least weaponised it himself (degree in pharmachemicals), he should be able to create an antidote. what makes this weird is that Ducard wears a mask, suggesting that ''no one'' in the League thought that immunising themselves to their own weapons using a chemical that Fox cooked up in two days rather than relying on masks was a good idea.

to:

* Why didn't Dr. Crane think to immunize himself to his own poison? Given that he uses it by spraying it into the air, he must have breathed it in by accident a few times. And given that he apparently created or at least weaponised weaponized it himself (degree in pharmachemicals), he should be able to create an antidote. what makes this weird is that Ducard wears a mask, suggesting that ''no one'' in the League thought that immunising immunizing themselves to their own weapons using a chemical that Fox cooked up in two days rather than relying on masks was a good idea.



** OP: And the League just took his word for it? Nobody thought to take it to some other, preferably more sane pharmacist (or several, even) who likes money a lot (not hard to find in a city that is in their own words so corrupt that they could infiltrate every level of government), and say 'Here, make an antidote'? Even if Lucius is some sort of superchemist, it isn't like the League was in a rush - he had two days, whereas they have the resources to wait weeks.

to:

** OP: And the League just took his word for it? Nobody thought to take it to some other, preferably more sane pharmacist (or several, even) who likes money a lot (not hard to find in a city that is in their own words so corrupt that they could infiltrate every level of government), and say 'Here, make an antidote'? Even if Lucius is some sort of superchemist, super chemist, it isn't like the League was in a rush - he had two days, whereas they have the resources to wait weeks.



** As I understand it (and I don't pretend to be an expert), immunisation isn't a magic cure-all process and has it's limits. You might be able to, say, drink small amounts of arsenic and develop some tolerance for it, but you wouldn't suddenly be able to make yourself arsenic martinis and drink gallons of the stuff with no ill effects whatsoever. It's still a lethal poison, and there's no such thing as complete immunity towards it. Even if Crane had an antidote at hand or had been giving himself small doses of fear gas to immunise himself, he literally had a huge cloud of the stuff sprayed right in his face; that's bound to have ''some'' effects.

to:

** As I understand it (and I don't pretend to be an expert), immunisation immunization isn't a magic cure-all process and has it's limits. You might be able to, say, drink small amounts of arsenic and develop some tolerance for it, but you wouldn't suddenly be able to make yourself arsenic martinis and drink gallons of the stuff with no ill effects whatsoever. It's still a lethal poison, and there's no such thing as complete immunity towards it. Even if Crane had an antidote at hand or had been giving himself small doses of fear gas to immunise immunize himself, he literally had a huge cloud of the stuff sprayed right in his face; that's bound to have ''some'' effects.



** They're the ''police''. They don't get to decide who they pursue or not; for all they know, this guy's headed to attack a preschool next or a church or something. For a real-life example, watch [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnUoUKEIGoo this footage]] of some guy who stole a tank and went on a rampage a few years back. One of the things you'll notice is a lot of police cars chasing him despite the obvious risks involved (albeit from a much safer distance, but then, well, this is still an action movie we're talking about). Because, you know, people recklessly driving massive armoured vehicles through the streets and leaving a swathe of destruction in their path is kind of the sort of thing they have to address, even if they don't want to. I know this is Gotham and it doesn't exactly have a police department with a great reputation, but even a corrupt police department in thrall to the local crime boss nevertheless probably realises that some vigilante driving a tank through the streets is probably something they shouldn't just sit back and allow without a token effort at least.

to:

** They're the ''police''. They don't get to decide who they pursue or not; for all they know, this guy's headed to attack a preschool next or a church or something. For a real-life example, watch [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnUoUKEIGoo this footage]] of some guy who stole a tank and went on a rampage a few years back. One of the things you'll notice is a lot of police cars chasing him despite the obvious risks involved (albeit from a much safer distance, but then, well, this is still an action movie we're talking about). Because, you know, people recklessly driving massive armoured armored vehicles through the streets and leaving a swathe of destruction in their path is kind of the sort of thing they have to address, even if they don't want to. I know this is Gotham and it doesn't exactly have a police department with a great reputation, but even a corrupt police department in thrall to the local crime boss nevertheless probably realises realizes that some vigilante driving a tank through the streets is probably something they shouldn't just sit back and allow without a token effort at least.



*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special gravelly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with. As for Ra's specifically, he's about to destroy the whole city, so why exactly should Bruce give a crap if he feels awkward about him using his 'Batman' voice?

to:

*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special gravelly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured armored bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with. As for Ra's specifically, he's about to destroy the whole city, so why exactly should Bruce give a crap if he feels awkward about him using his 'Batman' voice?
18th Sep '17 6:36:54 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Rachel's non-reaction to Bruce's return. When they last saw one another, Bruce had a gun and was in a bad enough mental state that he intended to use it to kill a man. Rachel slapped him (twice!), told him his parents would be ashamed of him, and left him in a rough part of town, literally on the doorstep of Gotham's biggest mob boss, with ''explicit instructions'' to go inside and confront Falcone. Bruce wasn't seen again for seven years. Rachel should have been '''devastated''' by her part in her best friend's apparent death, but when she finds out he's alive she neither calls nor visits. When they do see each other it's a chance encounter at a hotel, and she has nothing to say outside idle chit-chat and an admonition to be more responsible.

to:

* Rachel's non-reaction to Bruce's return. When they last saw one another, Bruce had a gun and was in a bad enough mental state that he intended to use it to kill a man. Rachel slapped him (twice!), told him his parents would be ashamed of him, and left him in a rough part of town, literally on the doorstep of Gotham's biggest mob boss, with ''explicit instructions'' to go inside and confront Falcone. Bruce wasn't seen again for seven years. To most, it seems like the most likely outcome was that Falcone had Bruce killed and, while not connected to his meeting with Falcone, Earle later had Bruce declared dead. Rachel should have been '''devastated''' by her part in her best friend's apparent death, but when she finds out he's alive she neither calls nor visits. When they do see each other it's a chance encounter at a hotel, and she has nothing to say outside idle chit-chat and an admonition to be more responsible.
16th Sep '17 7:07:09 AM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Also, Batman is probably willing to give Falcone a few burns, so long as they're not fatal. He is a crime lord who said some pretty nasty things about him and his parents, after all.

to:

*** Also, Batman is probably willing to give Falcone a few minor burns, so long as they're not fatal. which is the worst he'd probably get from that spotlight assuming he wasn't tied up there for too long. He is ''is'' a crime lord who said some pretty nasty things about him and his parents, after all.
10th Sep '17 7:40:58 PM Kaye006
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Wow. Good point. Indeed, she does come off a little harshly for somebody whose friend was thought to be dead.
29th Aug '17 11:15:17 AM HalcyonDayz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Bear in mind the LovingAShadow schtick is actally entirely consistent with the Batman's major theme of Bruce Wayne being Batman's mask rather than the other way round. It was probably to play that aspect up.

to:

*** Bear in mind the LovingAShadow schtick is actally actually entirely consistent with the Batman's major theme of Bruce Wayne being Batman's mask rather than the other way round. It was probably to play that aspect up.



** Didn't anyone else notice the HUGE firing offense that is destroying the paper trail and covering the tracks of the League of Shadows in order to spare his company any possible liability? Earle must have known that the emitter was a terrorist weapon (Lucius calls him on it) and instead of warning the law he covered it up! Even if you might think that he is portrayed unsympathetically before that he is definitely accomplice after the fact to one of the worst WMD terrorist attacks ever by the end of the film. He was definitely deserving of more than his quiet firing at the end of the movie, it's a surprise Fox isn't handing Earle over to the FBI. Filing the serial numbers off WMDs is a pretty serious lapse in ethics.

to:

** Didn't anyone else notice the HUGE firing offense that is destroying the paper trail and covering the tracks of the League of Shadows in order to spare his company any possible liability? Earle must have known that the emitter was a terrorist weapon (Lucius calls him on it) and instead of warning the law he covered it up! Even if you might think that he is portrayed unsympathetically before that he is definitely accomplice after the fact to one of the worst WMD terrorist attacks ever by the end of the film. He was definitely deserving of more than his quiet firing at the end of the movie, it's a surprise Fox isn't handing Earle over to the FBI. Filing the serial numbers off WMDs [=WMDs=] is a pretty serious lapse in ethics.



*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with. As for Ra's specifically, he's about to destroy the whole city, so why exactly should Bruce give a crap if he feels awkward about him using his 'Batman' voice?

to:

*** It's a method thing; kind of like how a boxer might be shadow-boxing if you're talking to him before a fight. Basically, it's just a 'thing' Bruce does to help him psych up while he's in the costume. Related to this, if you know the identity of the guy who dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals every night, then the fact that he persists in using his special growly gravelly voice when he's around you while wearing ''his armoured bat costume'' is probably going to be the ''least'' potentially awkward thing about that situation. Plus, most of the people who know Bruce and who encounter him as Batman tend to do so in situations of life-or-death crisis (Ra's before he destroys the city, Lucius while Joker's rampaging around the city, and so forth), so they kind of have bigger fish to fry than the voice Bruce chooses to address them with. As for Ra's specifically, he's about to destroy the whole city, so why exactly should Bruce give a crap if he feels awkward about him using his 'Batman' voice?
26th Jul '17 2:55:06 AM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Also, Batman is probably willing to give Falcone a few burns, so long as they're not fatal. He is a crime lord, after all.

to:

*** Also, Batman is probably willing to give Falcone a few burns, so long as they're not fatal. He is a crime lord, lord who said some pretty nasty things about him and his parents, after all.
26th Jul '17 2:53:23 AM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** It's ineffective when you're a sober, sane person looking at this person from a position where you are completely in control of your faculties. When you're mentally unstable as a result of tripping balls on some godawful mix of hallucinogenic chemicals he's designed and dosed you with specifically to render you completely mad with terror, the effect is a lot more terrifying. He's initially just using it to torture and terrify people he's driving ''insane'', remember.

to:

** It's ineffective when you're a sober, sane person looking at this person man from a position where you are completely in control of your faculties. When you're mentally unstable as a result of tripping balls on some godawful mix of hallucinogenic chemicals he's designed and dosed you with specifically to render you completely mad with terror, the effect is a lot more terrifying. He's initially just using it to torture and terrify people he's driving ''insane'', remember.
26th Jul '17 12:04:13 AM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Also, Batman kind of has bigger fish to fry on his plate at that point; there's weird insane-fear drugs being brought into the city for some shadowy cabal's nefarious purposes, after all. He kind of has to prioritise.
16th Mar '17 8:12:55 PM ERAoD
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

**** I'll add to the above that police horses in the real world are actually trained too handle chaos and riots. It would be weird if GCPD's weren't.
23rd Feb '17 9:40:35 PM SteveMB
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** He's trained himself to use the Batman voice when in costume. Doing it even around people who know who he is reinforces the habit, making him less likely to make a mistake in front of somebody who ''isn't'' in on the secret.
This list shows the last 10 events of 90. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.BatmanBegins