History Headscratchers / AtlasShrugged

5th Oct '15 1:22:26 PM FF32
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** There are several abridged versions out there: Howard Roark's speech at his trial at the end of ''Literature/TheFountainhead'' of course (though that's still ridiculously long despite being much shorter), Tony Stark's speech at his Senate hearing in ''Film/IronMan2'', the ComicBook/ScroogeMcDuck comic "A Financial Fable," and any one of [[Series/StarTrektheOriginalSeries Captain Kirk's]] [[KirkSummation summations]] when he "liberates" a planet.
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** There are several abridged versions out there: Howard Roark's speech at his trial at the end of ''Literature/TheFountainhead'' of course (though that's still ridiculously long despite being much shorter), Tony Stark's speech at his Senate hearing in ''Film/IronMan2'', the ComicBook/ScroogeMcDuck [[ComicBook/DisneyDucksComicUniverse Scrooge [=McDuck=]]] comic "A Financial Fable," and any one of [[Series/StarTrektheOriginalSeries Captain Kirk's]] [[KirkSummation summations]] when he "liberates" a planet.
21st Aug '15 11:01:40 AM Julia1984
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*** One, for moral reasons. They worship honesty. They (correctly) believe it's dishonest to bribe people to give you things you haven't earned. They refuse to make a fortune any other way besides [[Creator/CarlBarks being smarter than the smarties, being tougher than the toughies, and square]] -- honestly earned wealth is a sign of virtue to them, while dishonestly earned wealth disgusts them. They pride themselves on being {{Honest Corporate Executive}}s who earn their fortunes honorably and honestly; they refuse to become {{Corrupt Corporate executive}}s who [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney succeed through bribery]], blackmail, and [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections connections]]. Shortly after they pass the Equalization of Opportunity Bill, Hank Rearden's employee reminds his struggling boss of all the dishonest, underhanded deals men have adopted to cope with it. Rearden despondently replies that he must not have the skills necessary to make the kind of "deals" required today; said employee assures him it's those very morals that make him a great businessman. When Jim uses the Anti Dog Eat Dog Rule to destroy competitor Dan Conway, Dagny is horrified and actually goes to Conway and offers to help him fight it. She's further disgusted by the "government subsidies" (really bribes) Jim later uses to make "profits," which in her opinion aren't profits at all because they aren't earned honestly. The heroes don't want money -- they want the freedom to earn money honestly, and they won't resort to dishonesty and evil is that's not possible.
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*** One, for moral reasons. They worship honesty. They (correctly) believe it's dishonest to bribe people to give you things you haven't earned. They refuse to make a fortune any other way besides [[Creator/CarlBarks being smarter than the smarties, being tougher than the toughies, and square]] -- honestly earned wealth is a sign of virtue to them, while dishonestly earned wealth disgusts them. They pride themselves on being {{Honest Corporate Executive}}s who earn their fortunes honorably and honestly; they refuse to become {{Corrupt Corporate executive}}s who [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney succeed through bribery]], blackmail, and [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections connections]]. Shortly after they pass the Equalization of Opportunity Bill, Hank Rearden's employee reminds his struggling boss of all the dishonest, underhanded deals men have adopted to cope with it. Rearden despondently replies that he must not have the skills necessary to make the kind of "deals" required today; said employee assures him it's those very morals that make him a great businessman. When Jim uses the Anti Dog Eat Dog Rule to destroy competitor Dan Conway, Dagny is horrified and actually goes to Conway and offers to help him fight it. She's further disgusted by the "government subsidies" (really bribes) Jim later uses to make "profits," which in her opinion aren't profits at all because they aren't earned honestly. The heroes don't want money -- they want the freedom to earn money honestly, and they won't resort to dishonesty and evil is if that's not possible.
21st Aug '15 10:59:58 AM Julia1984
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-----
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-----** Here is why Rand's rich businesspeople don't buy the protection/friendship of political allies: *** One, for moral reasons. They worship honesty. They (correctly) believe it's dishonest to bribe people to give you things you haven't earned. They refuse to make a fortune any other way besides [[Creator/CarlBarks being smarter than the smarties, being tougher than the toughies, and square]] -- honestly earned wealth is a sign of virtue to them, while dishonestly earned wealth disgusts them. They pride themselves on being {{Honest Corporate Executive}}s who earn their fortunes honorably and honestly; they refuse to become {{Corrupt Corporate executive}}s who [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney succeed through bribery]], blackmail, and [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections connections]]. Shortly after they pass the Equalization of Opportunity Bill, Hank Rearden's employee reminds his struggling boss of all the dishonest, underhanded deals men have adopted to cope with it. Rearden despondently replies that he must not have the skills necessary to make the kind of "deals" required today; said employee assures him it's those very morals that make him a great businessman. When Jim uses the Anti Dog Eat Dog Rule to destroy competitor Dan Conway, Dagny is horrified and actually goes to Conway and offers to help him fight it. She's further disgusted by the "government subsidies" (really bribes) Jim later uses to make "profits," which in her opinion aren't profits at all because they aren't earned honestly. The heroes don't want money -- they want the freedom to earn money honestly, and they won't resort to dishonesty and evil is that's not possible. *** Two, for practical reasons. They don't believe EvilPaysBetter in the long run. They know it's not practical to pay "a protection racket." They know that any such deals or favors they bought would come with strings attached. On an even playing field, they don't need the politicians' support or anything said politicians can offer; it's only the government's policies and restraints that would make buying the support of politicians necessary to do business, and they don't believe supporting that system would do any good. Galt compares it to a doctor breaking your arm and you paying that doctor to fix it. When Mr. Thompson tries to argue that he ''does'' have something to offer Galt -- his life -- Galt insists, "It's not yours to offer." From the heroes' perspective, their freedom is not the politicians' to offer, and supporting that claim by buying said freedom to operate would only harm them. *** Three, even if the filthy rich heroes considered this an honorable, practical solution for them, what about the admirable, heroic characters who ''aren't'' filthy rich, like Cherryl, Jim Allen, and Eddie Willers? They and everyone like them don't have the resources to buy politicians for permission to live and work freely. What would they do if that was the acceptable way to survive?
29th Jun '15 6:56:48 PM ChrisW
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*** Rand was a believer in a "benevolent universe," the closest an atheist like her could get to acknowledging a God who can incorporate every single living creature in His plan. Her belief was that things happen for a reason, but without God as the reason, the tunnel sequence was the best she could do. The people on that train were on that train at that exact moment it led to disaster for a reason, but she can't make the reason clear because it removes God as the cause. God would know how and why every person onboard was there. A mere mortal couldn't. She can describe the effects, but ignores the cause.
7th May '15 11:33:24 PM maxwellsilver
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** There are several abridged versions out there: Howard Roark's speech at his trial at the end of ''Literature/TheFountainhead'' of course (though that's still ridiculously long despite being much shorter), Tony Stark's speech at his Senate hearing in ''Film/IronMan2'', the ScroogeMcDuck comic "A Financial Fable," and any one of [[Series/StarTrektheOriginalSeries Captain Kirk's]] [[KirkSummation summations]] when he "liberates" a planet.
to:
** There are several abridged versions out there: Howard Roark's speech at his trial at the end of ''Literature/TheFountainhead'' of course (though that's still ridiculously long despite being much shorter), Tony Stark's speech at his Senate hearing in ''Film/IronMan2'', the ScroogeMcDuck ComicBook/ScroogeMcDuck comic "A Financial Fable," and any one of [[Series/StarTrektheOriginalSeries Captain Kirk's]] [[KirkSummation summations]] when he "liberates" a planet.

*** Not hypocritical, just interesting. Rand loved capitalism and individualism. Roddenberry hated capitalism but loved individualism (and ''TheFountainhead'' and ''The Romantic Manifesto'').
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*** Not hypocritical, just interesting. Rand loved capitalism and individualism. Roddenberry hated capitalism but loved individualism (and ''TheFountainhead'' ''Literature/TheFountainhead'' and ''The Romantic Manifesto'').

** This troper always saw the question as a trap. The answer is obviously yes and both men know it's the answer. So why is Reardan asking? The government official might not be smart enough to to fully recognize what creek he's in but he's smart enough to notice he just got splashed. Also it seems unlikely Reardon was being honest about his intentions to sell the formula. That and as is mentioned in Rand's works the government are collectively too stupid to breathe.
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** This troper I always saw the question as a trap. The answer is obviously yes and both men know it's the answer. So why is Reardan asking? The government official might not be smart enough to to fully recognize what creek he's in but he's smart enough to notice he just got splashed. Also it seems unlikely Reardon was being honest about his intentions to sell the formula. That and as is mentioned in Rand's works the government are collectively too stupid to breathe.
6th May '15 12:35:26 AM BuccoBabe
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**** I'm sorry, you lost me at the point where you admitted you hadn't read the book. Shouldn't that be a preliminary step to getting involved in a discussion of it? Particularly as the book actually addresses your perspective, not briefly, but as a ''major theme''?
6th May '15 12:26:45 AM BuccoBabe
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***** That goes back to (in the words of a troper above): "Dr. Ferris is a recognizable douche. I think he wanted to try out his new shiny thing." Sure, waterboarding might do the job in RL, but then Dr. Ferris wouldn't get to prove the "value" of his "secret project."
24th Apr '15 11:31:47 AM BuccoBabe
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** You're kidding, right? She didn't miss the influence of money on politics ''at all.'' One, what do you think ''funds'' the "aristocracy of pull"? People throwing money or favors to politicians to pass policies that would help their businesses and cripple those of the competition. Two, she indicated pretty clearly she sympathized with those businesses who were forced to pay bribes to the government to keep the government from passing regulations that would put them out of business, saying that people who blamed such businessmen were blaming the victim, not the highwayman. Even Rearden had a "man in Washington" at one point (that's how future Head of Government Wesley Mouch got his start); he didn't like it, but he recognized it as necessary to doing business. Three, one of the points of the novel was that simple greed for riches was actually too innocent a motivation to explain the looters' actions; it was simply something they told themselves to avoid facing the reality that what they wanted was destruction and death.
18th Apr '15 5:07:45 PM calronmoonflower
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*** Francisco didn't trick the investors. For quit some time he played the untrustworthy idiot of a of a company leader and the "investors" bought stock in his company and than passed legislation to make the stock more valuable and kill his competition. Except for the finial destruction of the company he openly made bad chooses and the looter piled on board anyway because they assumed that he would always make money even though they thought him too incompetent to run a company.
18th Apr '15 4:49:10 PM calronmoonflower
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** After the metal started to become accepted as good by the market place, Readen's competitors pull strings to pass a law keep people from buying enough to be used, called ironically the "Fair Share Law". After that a market springs up where people sell their "fair share" to others and sponge money off what is basically a cap and trade system.
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