History Headscratchers / AmericanGods

6th Aug '16 7:40:28 PM YeMightyDespair
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** Since American Gods is joining the [[BryanFuller Fullerverse]] which now includes the TrekVerse thanks to StarTrekDiscovery, the Greek gods aren't there since they were aliens all along and left earth 5000 years ago according to Who Mourns for Adonais from the original series. Aliens that liked worship and allowed themselves to fade away when they no longer got it, similar to what's going on in American Gods, but aliens nonetheless.
29th Jul '16 5:15:07 AM nobrandhero
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*** It's not that the nature of worship has changed, it's that the supernatural nature of America is different and always has been. That's the entire point of the story. The old gods are here because people brought their old beliefs, but those old beliefs quickly faded in the new land. America is a poor place for gods, but an excellent place for culture heroes and anthropomorphic personifications. They don't necessarily need worship, just attention. Nobody has ever sacrificed anything to Johnny Appleseed, and he's doing just fine.
29th Jul '16 5:01:47 AM nobrandhero
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*** Not only that, different gods require different forms of worship. Odin requires deaths explicitly dedicated to him. Loki requires chaos itself. Easter, despite Wednesday's speech, is still shown to be doing well enough with only the forms of her worship being followed. What sort of worship would the American Thor require? Whatever it is, it's almost certainly not reflected in neopagan practices.
26th Jul '16 3:12:30 PM N
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**** Indeed, sacrifices don't need to be literal. It's mentioned that the money lost in Vegas is a sort of sacrifice, and Media explicitly says that people mostly sacrifice time (and sometimes each other) to her. The line between actually worshiping them and sacrificing to them without genuine worship may not really exist, in any way that matters to the gods.
18th Jul '16 8:43:07 AM corruptmalemenace
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*** The Allah example is messier than it looks; many Christians consider God and Allah (which is actually just Arabic for "God" and also used by Arab Christians) to be separate, but it's an ''explicit'' bedrock of the Muslim faith that they aren't. They both (plus Jews and a few others) say that their god is the one true God of Abraham, even if they believe wildly different things ''about'' said god.

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*** The Allah example is messier than it looks; many Christians consider God and Allah (which is actually just Arabic for "God" and also used by Arab Christians) to be separate, but it's an ''explicit'' bedrock of the Muslim faith that they aren't. They both (plus Jews and a few others) say that their god is the one true God of Abraham, even if they believe wildly different things ''about'' said god.god.
** So far as the original forms of the gods go, if they're worshipped in a sufficiently different country it probably produces a different version, just as Wednesday is only ''American'' Odin and not the original Odin, who turns up in Iceland in the epilogue. Possibly Greek and Roman cultures were sufficiently different for the Greek Zeus and the Roman Jupiter to both exist. So far as the American versions of the gods, go, probably they're blended into one entity if they're similar enough. Wednesday appears to consider himself to be both Odin and Woden (hence his chosen moniker - Woden's Day). Mad Sweeney appears to be an amalgam of both the fairy king Suibhne and an earlier leprechaun. Bilquis is both the goddess and the half-demon versions of the Queen of Sheba simultaneously. Hinzelmann is the mythical kobold of the same name but he's also simultaneously an older god on whom we're presumably supposed to assume the kobold was based. In the extended addition, American Jesus turns up and it's implied he's struggling to be all things to all people because of all the different denominations of Christianity. Et cetera. If an Ancient Greek or Roman ever made it to America, then there's probably a version of Zeus-Jupiter wandering around there who considers himself to be both at once, a la Wednesday with Odin-Woden. Whether Yahweh can be considered similar enough to either Allah or Jesus to be blended with one or other of them in the same way - or both - is a tricky question to answer, though, and unless Gaiman decides to write a sequel we're unlikely to ever get a canon answer.
14th Jun '16 9:30:14 PM ImpudentInfidel
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** Different. For that first example, the people I know who believe in the Christian God would definitely not say He's the same as Allah, even if they share some things, because they're different religions with different rituals, specific beliefs, rules, etc. If what makes the god powerful is having people believe in and worship them, then the cultural origins or whatever wouldn't matter, as long as you have different people worshiping Zeus and Jupiter.

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** Different. For that first example, the people I know who believe in the Christian God would definitely not say He's the same as Allah, even if they share some things, because they're different religions with different rituals, specific beliefs, rules, etc. If what makes the god powerful is having people believe in and worship them, then the cultural origins or whatever wouldn't matter, as long as you have different people worshiping Zeus and Jupiter.Jupiter.
*** The Allah example is messier than it looks; many Christians consider God and Allah (which is actually just Arabic for "God" and also used by Arab Christians) to be separate, but it's an ''explicit'' bedrock of the Muslim faith that they aren't. They both (plus Jews and a few others) say that their god is the one true God of Abraham, even if they believe wildly different things ''about'' said god.
14th Apr '16 5:53:20 PM Eagal
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* Does anybody else really not like Laura? I mean, Shadow gives her nothing but love and affection, and how does she reward his devotion? She encourages him to break the law, cheats on him with his best friend, blames him for forcing her to cheat, and has the nerve to ask him to find a way to resurrect her. IMHO, Shadow would've been much better off with [[IndianMaiden Sam]] or even [[CatGirl Bast]].
** I quite agree, but I also think Laura was supposed to be come off as a BitchInSheepsClothing. I mean, look at what happened to [[spoiler: Mr. Town]].
** At one point Wednesday says he is sorry for Laura's death, probably because either he or Loki used her to manipulate Shadow. Shadow acts as a SpannerInTheWorks by giving Laura the coin.
** I agree I didn't like the fact that she cheated on Shadow, especially since it was her who got him involved with crooks in the first place. But to be fair she appeared to really love him after she died, and did everything to help him that she could. I suppose I just didn't like how much of a pushover Shadow was about the whole thing.
** Also remember that, as a reanimated dead person, her capacity for empathy is gone. Doesn't excuse what she did ''before'' she died, although that was implied to not entirely be under her control either as part of the setup to take everything Shadow wanted to go back to away from him.
** She was indeed a majorly self centered bitch, who nevertheless loved Shadow, even though she admitted this was partly because Shadow adored her, and she liked being adored. Anyone else seeing the parallel between that state of affairs and the dying Gods? But anyways, she wasn't a great person, and she was aware of it, and used that to be the bad guy in support of Shadows cause, and redeemed herself a little along the way. After all, she might have said she wanted to be really alive again (and wouldn't you?) but in the end, she chooses to die, and thats obviously what's best for everyone. As for Sam, or Bast, well, even if you ignore the fact that Sam was a lesbian, Shadow really needed to learn to stay away from those manic pixie dream girls, so I don't think she would have been good for him. And he DID end up with Bast. Not in a permanent capacity, but I don't think Bast is the kind who wants a big commitment, but I'm sure she'd be up for a repeat performance if he comes around again. You're reading this as a love story, and it's not a love story. He doesn't end up with anyone at the end, because that wasn't what this book was about.
** Laura is far from perfect but what character in this story is without flaw? That point is made very clearly at several points - everyone does some bad things during their lives. Yes, she slept with someone other than her husband (hate to say it, but with three years separation? statistically, most people do cheat. On first reading I was more surprised that she still wanted him back) and yes, she was involved in the bank robbery plot (and if she'd been responsible for her death it would have been amazingly stupid, but that was clearly somewhat divine meddling). She did not demand that Shadow resurrect her, he ''asked'' her what she wanted, and it was a pretty reasonable thing to want under the circumstances. I think it's sort of a pity that she died as it would have been interesting for her and Shadow to try and move past their earlier relationship and become independent friends.
** It is heavily implied that [[spoiler:her death, and therefore, possibly, her cheating on him, was caused by Wednesday and Loki in order to shake up Shadow's life so they could use him.]]
8th Apr '16 7:46:37 PM saraheg
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* Are parallel gods of similar religions the same entity or independent? Are the Christian God and Allah the same thing? What about Zeus and Jupiter, or Odin and Wotan?

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* Are parallel gods of similar religions the same entity or independent? Are the Christian God and Allah the same thing? What about Zeus and Jupiter, or Odin and Wotan?Wotan?
** Different. For that first example, the people I know who believe in the Christian God would definitely not say He's the same as Allah, even if they share some things, because they're different religions with different rituals, specific beliefs, rules, etc. If what makes the god powerful is having people believe in and worship them, then the cultural origins or whatever wouldn't matter, as long as you have different people worshiping Zeus and Jupiter.
31st Jan '16 3:35:01 PM ImpudentInfidel
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*** American Jesus actually does show up during the "Shadow is dying" montage in some later editions. He's pretty laid back, but mentions being spread thin by all the contradictory things people believe about him and hoping some of the more extreme factions will convert to the new gods.
5th Jan '16 12:20:27 PM Imperios
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** "Low [[{{beat}} (slight pause)]] Key" would be pronounced aloud different from "Loki", too.

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** "Low [[{{beat}} (slight pause)]] Key" would be pronounced aloud different from "Loki", too.too.
* Are parallel gods of similar religions the same entity or independent? Are the Christian God and Allah the same thing? What about Zeus and Jupiter, or Odin and Wotan?
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