History Headscratchers / AlexStern

Why aren’t Elihu and Mace and Chain mentioned? They’re part of the Ancient Eight and are both landed.

* All of the chapter titles could relate (at least distantly) to the Eleusinian mysteries. Plato was im the Eleusinian cult, and the cult’s belief of rebirth could be related to Jesus. However, if she’s just focusing on the Eleusinian mysteries, why isn’t that her paper topic? We have more detail on the Eleusinian beliefs of antiquity than the Mycenaean grain cult. Why title the paper on one specific era?

* Based on chapter titles, she’s doing to distant Mycenaean Greece to classical Greece to Renaissance route, rather than based on discoveries:

In the 1400s, the only thing people knew of pre-Classical Greece was Homer, which was a combo of likely real Mycenaean war events/locations mixed with Greek Dark Age culture. At that time, people believed the works of Homer to be entirely myth, and did not believe Mycenae or Troy to be real places. It wasn’t until Heinrich Schliemann in 1868 found archaeological evidence of Mycenaean civilization that people knew anything about Mycenaean civilization, and Mycenaean language (Linear B) wasn’t translated until at least the 1950s. How on earth could the Mycenaean civilization have any influence on tarot cards which developed in the 1400s, at all, except very distantly? Unless she’s just referring to the development more modern decks that developed after more was known on Mycenaean civilization, but those are pretty esoteric, and again, knowledge of the cult practices were still scant, as the field has developed quite a bit in the past century.

Her thesis is on Mycenaean cult practices in early tarot iconography. Mycenae Greece predates the more well known Classical Greece (what people call Ancient Greece), dating from 1750-1050BC. Tarot decks originated in 1400s AD as playing cards or flashcards for learning purposes. They weren’t used for divination until late 1700s.//
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Her thesis is on Mycenaean cult practices in early tarot iconography. Mycenae Greece predates the more well known Classical Greece (what people call Ancient Greece), dating from 1750-1050BC. Tarot decks originated in 1400s AD as playing cards or flashcards for learning purposes. They weren’t used for divination until late 1700s.

Her thesis is on Mycenaean cult practices in early tarot iconography. Mycenae Greece predates the more well known Classical Greece (what people call Ancient Greece), dating from 1750-1050BC. Tarot decks originated in 1400s AD as playing flashcards for learning purposes. They weren’t used for divination until late 1700s.

In the 1400s, the only thing people knew of pre-Classical Greece was Homer, which was a combo of likely real Mycenaean war events/locations mixed with Greek Dark Age culture. Until Schliemann, people believed the works of Homer to be entirely myth, and did not believe Mycenae or Troy to be real places. It wasn’t until Heinrich Schliemann in 1868 found archaeological evidence of Mycenaean civilization that people knew anything about Mycenaean civilization, and Mycenaean language (Linear B) wasn’t translated until at least the 1950s. How on earth could Mycenaean civilization have any influence on tarot cards which developed in the 1400s, at all, except very distantly? Unless she’s just referring to the development more modern decks, but those are pretty esoteric, and again, knowledge of the cult practices were still scant, as the field has developed quite a bit in the past century.

From her chapter titles:
* Based on her chapter title: ''From Eleusis to Empoli'', Eleusis is where the Eleusinian mysteries supposedly originate, which had origins in a Mycenaean grain cult. Empoli is a town near Florence, and tarot cards originated in Florence as well as several other northern Italian cities in the 1400s AD.
* Her chapter title: ''Mimesis and the Chariot’s Wheel'', refers Platonic concepts. The chariot’s wheel analogy is that a human soul is like a charioteer driving a chariot with two horses: one horse that is good and rational, the other driven by impulses. The Chariot is also a tarot card, usually with two drivers of the chariot. Of course, Plato’s Classical Greece is very distinct from Mycenaean Greece.
* Josephus is a Roman-Jewish historian. She’s probably referring to the Testimonium Flavonium, about Jesus of Nazareth, given it’s “Heretical.” In this passage, Jesus is crucified, and then tricksters are crucified, and some Heretics interpret that Jesus was a trickster (tricksters pretended to perform miracles). The Fool card in modern esoteric tarot is seen as the Protagonist, who participates in the great mysteries of life so maybe that’s Jesus symbology?

* Given Bardugo’s references to antiquity, she likely is aware just how distinct Mycenaean culture, the culture of Plato, and the culture of Josephus was. Was this intended as a GeniusBonus to emphasize why Dawes is struggling with her thesis, given she’s already worked on it for four years? But it would be incredibly silly if Dawes wasn’t aware of Schliemann’s contributions.
* All of the chapter titles could relate (at least distantly) to the Eleusinian mysteries. Plato was im the Eleusinian cult, and the cult’s belief of rebirth could be related to Jesus. However, if she’s just focusing on the Eleusinian mysteries, why isn’t that her paper topic? We have more detail on the Eleusinian beliefs of antiquity than the Mycenaean grain cult. Why title the paper on one specific era?

Her thesis is on Mycenaean cult practices in early tarot iconography. Mycenae Greece predates the more well known Classical Greece (what people call Ancient Greece), dating from 1750-1050BC. Tarot decks originated in 1400s AD as playing flashcards for learning purposes. They weren’t used for divination until late 1700s. What’s this have to do with Mycenae?

However, understanding the chapter titles raises more questions than it answers. We don’t have a ton of detail on Mycenaean cult beliefs to begin with, and whether they were passed onto the Eleusinian mysteries practiced in classical Greece around ~1000 years later is currently under debate. But she’s not just arguing that, she’s making a case for their influence at least another ~2000 years in the future. In order to develop her argument, she’d have to discuss how these beliefs from Mycenae were passed into the Greek Dark Ages, into Classical Greece in order to influence Plato, how they somehow relate to Josephus 500 years later, then another 1400 years after that. Plus, she’d have to discuss the culture tarot developed in, in order to discuss why Mycenaean iconography developed specifically.
* Given Bardugo’s references to antiquity, she likely is aware just how distinct Mycenaean culture, the culture of Plato, and the culture of Josephus was, so this likely wasn’t a mistake. Was this intended as a GeniusBonus to emphasize why Dawes is struggling with her thesis, given she’s already worked on it for four years?

* Why is she translating Linear B? Linear B is the written language of Mycenaeans, so that at least makes sense. But given she’s writing about tarot cards (developed in 1400), most of her paper is going to have to be linking the cult beliefs to modern era. Wouldn’t she just take previously translated passages? Why would she be wasting time slogging through untranslated tablets on the off-chance she finds something new?

** History? Who would be her advisor? A Mycenaean scholar? An expert on the cults of antiquity? A Renaissance scholar? A scholar on the occult in the 19th century? Seems very broad for history.

** Is she just looking into the development of tarot in general from an art perspective? That might be the most realistic for getting a TA position at Yale, but it doesn’t seem like her focus is simply on card development.

* Based on her chapter title: ''From Eleusis to Empoli'', Eleusis is where the Eleusinian mysteries supposedly originate, which had origins in a Mycenaean grain cult. Empoli is a town near Florence, and tarot cards originated in Florence as well as several other northern Italian cities.
* Her chapter title: ''Mimesis and the Chariot’s Wheel'', refers Platonic concepts. The chariot’s wheel analogy is that a human soul is like a charioteer driving a chariot with two horses: one horse that is good and rational, the other driven by impulses. The Chariot is also a tarot card, usually with two drivers of the chariot. Of course, Classical Greece is very distinct from Mycenaean Greece.
* Josephus is a Roman-Jewish historian. She’s probably referring to the Testimonium Flavonium, about Jesus of Nazareth, given it’s “Heretical.” In this passage, Jesus is crucified, and then tricksters are crucified, and some Heretics interpret that Jesus was a trickster (tricksters pretended to perform miracles). The Fool card in modern esoteric tarot is seen as the Protagonist, who participates in the great mysteries of life (maybe Jesus symbology?).

However, understanding the chapter titles raises more questions than it answers. We don’t have a ton of detail on Mycenaean cult beliefs to begin with, and whether they were passed onto the Eleusinian mysteries practiced in classical Greece around ~1000 years later is currently under debate. But she’s not just arguing that, she’s making a case for influence at least another 1400 years in the future. In order to develop her argument, she’d have to discuss how these beliefs from Mycenae were passed into the Greek Dark Ages, into Classical Greece in order to influence Plato, how they somehow relate to Josephus 500 years later, then another 1400 years after that. Plus, she’d have to discuss the culture tarot developed 1400 years after Josephus, in order to discuss why Mycenaean iconography developed specifically.