History Headscratchers / AFewGoodMen

*** He should not ask it on the stand,at least not until he knows exactly what happened, but it is worth investigating. In a civilian court, this would be where you bring in an expert witness of your own to debunk the coroner's report.

*** Speaking of applicable things that Jessup said: "We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. Its that simple." When Jessup ordered the code red, he violated orders, and someone died.

* As anybody that was in the Marine Corps (and the Army) can attest,you only refer to a firearm as a "gun" once. MAYBE twice. After that,you would find yourself in a position where you would never refer to a firearm as a "gun" ever again. Col. Jessup's famous speech about those "walls being guarded by men with GUNS" has always bugged me.

** They are indeed guilty of manslaughter, but since they've been charged with first-degree ''murder'' that's the charge that the prosecution has to make stick. Murder one charges accuse a defendant of deliberately planning and causing someone's death, so that's what the prosecution has to prove; they can't simultaneously argue that the defendants also ''accidentally'' caused the victim's death, as a manslaughter charge would indicate. It can only be one or the other -- either the defendants deliberately caused the victim's death or they didn't, they can't do both at the same time -- and the prosecution doesn't get to charge and argue two different theories of the crime at the same time just to make sure they get a conviction. Due to double jeopardy rules, the prosecution also don't get to retry a defendant on a lesser charge once he's been acquitted of the more serious ones. Essentially, the prosecution took a gamble that they could convict the defendants on the maximum charges, and it turned out they couldn't.

** Also, remember whose questions Jessup is answering. Throughout the movie, Jessup has made it clear that he views Kaffee and his kind with contempt, and considers him to be a snot-nosed little squirt who, unlike Jessup, is not a real soldier. Jessup is irritated that Kaffee is seemingly questioning his control over the men under his command and is trying to intimidate him by reminding him of how authoritative and powerful he is. Unfortunately for him, he's forgotten that he's fighting on Kaffee's turf, not his own, and has underestimated just how clever Kaffee actually is. Jessup thinks he's bullying Kaffee into submission and simply doesn't realise that he's actually marching right into Kaffee's trap until it's too late.

** I think this can be explained the same way the altered tower chief logs can be explained. If Jessup has the pull to be able to have those logs altered, he likely also has the pull to get the gaining base to corroborate his phony transfer. However, as mentioned on the main page, this falls under Artistic License, because in the real world it would never fly and Jessup would be removed from command and indicted for even trying.

* A key plot point is exposing Jessup's lie that Santiago was to be transferred off the base. However... it is never brought up ''where'' Santiago was to be transferred. Jessup has Markinson sign a phony transfer order to give Kaffee, which would necessarily have the gaining base on it. As soon as Markinson gets in touch with Kaffee the defense knows the order is false, so it should be simple enough to contact said gaining base and verify, as they would necessarily be informed of an inbound Marine. Were I on the defense team, this would be the very first avenue I'd pursue. In fact, I'd have asked Jessup in Gitmo when he first brings it up (which may have exposed the lie - Jessup is clearly caught off-guard by Kaffee's request for the transfer order, which he covers up with bluster). Why is it never even brought up?

* A key plot point is exposing Jessup's lie that Santiago was to be transferred off the base. However... it is never brought up ''where'' Santiago was to be transferred. Jessup has Markinson sign a phony transfer order to give Kaffee, which would necessarily have the gaining base on it. As soon as Markinson gets in touch with Kaffee the defense knows the order is false, so it should be simple enough to contact said gaining base and verify, as they would necessarily be informed of an inbound Marine. Were I on the defense team, this would be the very first avenue I'd pursue. Why is it never even brought up?

** They are indeed guilty of manslaughter, but since they've been charged with first-degree ''murder'' that's the charge that the prosecution has to make stick. Murder one charges accuse a defendant of deliberately planning and causing someone's death, so that's what the prosecution has to prove; they can't simultaneously argue that the defendants also ''accidentally'' caused the victim's death, as a manslaughter charge would indicate. It can only be one or the other -- either the defendants deliberately caused the victim's death or they didn't, they can't do both at the same time -- and the prosecution doesn't get to charge and argue two different theories of the crime at the same time just to make sure they get a conviction. Due to double jeopardy rules, the prosecution also don't get to retry a defendant on a lesser charge once he's been acquitted of the more serious ones. Essentially, the prosecution took a gamble that they could convict the defendants on the maximum charges, and it turned out they couldn't.

** As for the other marines itching to give Santiago the Code Red treatment, this could also have been a consideration ''against'' chosing them; Jessup and Kendrick didn't actually ''want'' Santiago dead or seriously injured, they just wanted him roughed up. However, given the bad feelings between him and the others there was a risk that things could have escalated out of control had anyone else performed it. In theory, however, Dawson's own reluctance to participate in the Code Red and previous willingness to protect Santiago meant that he would have held back sufficiently to ensure that Santiago was not in severe danger. Of course, things escalated out of control anyway, but that was for reasons that Jessup and Kendrick couldn't possibly have known about.

*** You missed the point being made; it's not that the others aren't bullies also or that they didn't do anything bad, it's that unlike them, Jessup shows little-to-no remorse for what he did, and in fact is ''proud'' of it. ''That's'' (partly) what makes him more reprehensible. Case in point: Dawson immediately accepts the court's judgement that his actions were wrong, that he deserves punishment for them, and that he has no place being a marine anymore because of them. He ends by lamenting that he should have stood up for Santiago instead of joining in the torment of him. He learns a lesson. Conversely, Jessup ends the film sneering about how Kaffee has essentially doomed the country because he's not going to be there to defend it anymore. He learns nothing. Both men did something wrong, and both men faced judgement about it, but one man is willing to accept responsibility and punishment for it, comes to regret his actions, and subsequently grows as a person because of it. The other man doesn't, and remains callous, arrogant and defiant. ''That's'' what makes one man more sympathetic than the other one.

** They are indeed guilty of manslaughter, but since they've been charged with first-degree ''murder'' that's the charge that the prosecution has to make stick. Murder one charges accuse a defendant of deliberately planning and causing someone's death, so that's what the prosecution has to prove; they can't simultaneously argue that the defendants also ''accidentally'' caused the victim's death, as a manslaughter charge would indicate. It can only be one or the other -- either the defendants deliberately caused the victim's death or they didn't -- and the prosecution doesn't get to charge and argue two different theories of the crime at the same time just to make sure they get a conviction. Due to double jeopardy rules, the prosecution also don't get to retry a defendant on a lesser charge once he's been acquitted of the more serious ones. Essentially, the prosecution took a gamble that they could convict the defendants on the maximum charges, and it turned out they couldn't.

*** Lesser ''murder'' charges. A manslaughter charge is not the same as a murder charge. If a prosecutor wants to convict someone of manslaughter, they can't just charge them with murder, even if it's in the first degree (which is also a specific thing, not just a "one-size-fits-all" charge); they need to specifically charge them with manslaughter.

** Also, remember whose questions Jessup is answering. Throughout the movie, Jessup has made it clear that he views Kaffee and his kind with contempt, and considers him to be a snot-nosed little squirt who, unlike Jessup, is not a real soldier. Jessup is irritated that Kaffee is seemingly questioning his control over the men under his command and is trying to intimidate him by reminding him of how authoritative and powerful he is. Unfortunately for him, he's forgotten that he's fighting on Kaffee's turf, not his own, and has underestimated just how clever Kaffee actually is. Jessup simply doesn't realise that he's actually marching right into Kaffee's trap until it's too late.

** Also, remember whose questions Jessup is answering. Throughout the movie, Jessup has made it clear that he views Kaffee and his kind with contempt, and considers him to be a snot-nosed little squirt who, unlike Jessup, is not a real soldier. Jessup is irritated that Kaffee is seemingly questioning his control over the men under his command and is trying to intimidate him by reminding him of how authoritative and powerful he is. Unfortunately for him, he's underestimated just how clever Kaffee actually is and doesn't realise that he's actually marching right into Kaffee's trap until it's too late.

*** Not exactly. The prosecution can't just suddenly switch theories of the crime mid-trial in order to make sure they get a guilty verdict owing to double jeopardy rules, nor can they argue two different theories of the crime at the same time (it was intentional murder... unless it was an unintentional manslaughter). The prosecution has essentially gambled that their evidence and their theory of the crime is strong enough to support a charge of murder. Unfortunately for them, it turned out it wasn't. Morally speaking, the defendants are indeed still guilty of causing someone's death, but legally they can't be charged with doing so once they're cleared by the court.

*** Jessup gave an order that, effective or not, was illegal. He ''knew'' it was illegal and he gave the order anyways. Jessup was right when he talked about the virtues of honor and trust when it comes to the chain of command, but he violated both. The moment he gave an order that he violated USMC regulations, his superiors could no longer rely on him, and Marines he commanded could no longer trust him. Even before he lied, falsified records, and threw his own men under the bus, his actions made it impossible for him to function as an officer in the United States Marine Corps.

*** The film seems to be saying that Santiago was simply someone who shouldn't have been on the receiving end of such brutality. He may have been a substandard Marine but We are arguably supposed to be appalled at Jessup's callousness in keeping on a man whom he knows is being pushed to breaking point. Jessup knows Santiago can't cut it in training and that he is at a very high risk of reprisal from other Marines. This can be seen in the way Jessup orders Lowden and Downey to administer the beating, reminding Santiago that he truly doesn't have a friend in the world. That is arguably when Jessup's motives change from the good of the corps to utter Sadism.

*** It should also be remembered that Jessup is extremely prideful to the point of being absolutely intolerant of any insubordination. In the scene where He, Markinson and Kendrick are discussing Santiago, He is incessed that Markinson would disagree with Him or question him like that, regardless of the fact that He and Markinson are old friends with the same amount of experience (Jessup has merely been luckier with promotions). The contrast can be seen with Kendrick who views Jessup's authority as second only to God and his assistant Tom who ends every answer with "Sir". In Jessup's mind, the ideal Marine asks no questions and is concerned only with following orders.

* How is it these guys aren't guilty of straight up manslaughter? They didn’t intend to kill him, so it wasn't murder, but they attacked him (a crime) and he died as a result. I don't see how the notion they thought he could take the abuse absolves them of manslaughter.
** They are indeed guilty of manslaughter, but since they've been charged with first-degree ''murder'' that's the charge that the prosecution has to make stick. Murder one charges accuse a defendant of deliberately planning and causing someone's death, so that's what the prosecution has to prove; they can't simultaneously argue that the defendants also ''accidentally'' caused the victim's death, as a manslaughter charge would indicate. It can only be one or the other -- either the defendants deliberately caused the victim's death or they didn't -- and the prosecution doesn't get to charge and argue two different theories of the crime at the same time just to make sure they get a conviction. Due to double jeopardy rules, the prosecution also don't get to retry a defendant on a lesser charge once he's been acquitted of the more serious ones. Essentially, the prosecution took a gamble that they could convict the defendants on the maximum charges, and it turned out they couldn't.

** They weren't accused of trying to induce lactic acidosis, but rather choke him or gag him with a poison that he would ingest or breath in. Lactic acidosis was his body's response to the alleged poison. He was trying to disprove the poison or at least show that the acidosis could have been a natural reaction.

** They are indeed guilty of manslaughter, but since they've been charged with first-degree murder that's the charge that the prosecution has to make stick. Murder one charges accuse a defendant of deliberately planning and causing someone's death, so that's what the prosecution has to prove; they can't simultaneously argue that the defendants also ''accidentally'' caused the victim's death, as it can only be one or the other and the prosecution doesn't get to argue two different theories of the crime at the same time just to make sure they get a conviction. Due to double jeopardy rules, they also don't get to retry a defendant on a lesser charge once he's been acquitted of the more serious ones. Essentially, the prosecution took a gamble that they could convict the defendants on the maximum charges, and it turned out they couldn't.

** They are indeed guilty of manslaughter, but since they've been charged with first-degree murder that's the charge that the prosecution has to make stick. Murder one charges accuse a defendant of deliberately causing someone's death, so that's what the prosecution has to prove; they can't simultaneously argue that the defendants also ''accidentally'' caused the victim's death, as it can only be one or the other and the prosecution doesn't get to argue two different theories of the crime at the same time just to make sure they get a conviction. Due to double jeopardy rules, they also don't get to retry a defendant on a lesser charge once he's been acquitted of the more serious ones. Essentially, the prosecution took a gamble that they could convict the defendants on the maximum charges, and it turned out they couldn't.