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*** This similarity is something even Orks themselves can notice. In [[VideoGame/DawnOfWar Soulstorm]], if the player is playing as Orks and defeats Sisters of Battle, the narrator mentions how Gorgutz "suspected that they even had their own form of Waaagh!," only to quickly dismiss that idea because "anyone knows you can't have a Waaagh! without proper banners."
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** Ironically, in the 8th Edition, the Ultramarines themselves are noncompliant, as their Primarch realised how counterproductive strict adherence to the Space Book was.

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** Ironically, in the 8th Edition, the Ultramarines themselves are noncompliant, as their Primarch realised how counterproductive strict adherence to the Space Book was. Not only did he make significant changes, it appears his own chapter is now quite eager to think outside the box.
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** Ironically, in the 8th Edition, the Ultramarines themselves are noncompliant, as their Primarch realised how counterproductive strict adherence to the Space Book was.
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Explaining the ranges that puzzle people in Warhammer.

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*** [[UnitsNotToScale Warhammer 40K isn't running on a linear scale]]. It's completely abstracted. This troper dabbles in wargame design, and research shows that most gunfights in a war happen up to 300 metres; this happens to be the most common effective range for infantry weapons. In the Warhammer scale that's around 6 metres (not to mention that the scale itself is eyeballed and not even the same over the whole product range), or around 20 feet. [[TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot Also note how a battle round is not a specified period of time]]: it's pretty much a meaningful chunk of time where soldiers can act, but it's not set in stone. This means that if it weren't abstracted, ranged weapons would have an even bigger advantage, [[NeverBringAKnifeToAGunFight as they'd easily be able to shoot at melee]] so much they'd die before they even got their turn. [[ShortRangeLongRangeWeapon Ergo, we have oddly short ranges.]] In fact, an attack in Warhammer is not, [[ActuallyFourMooks a single shot like some people think]]. Sure, for a lascannon, maybe. But a rapid firing bolter is actually multiple bursts, rather than two shots. Basically speaking, if the ranges were to scale, rather than for a game, you'd need multiple football fields, and the Tau would just laugh at everyone else as they pop them before they can even see them. Skilled snipers can shoot at 2,000 metres or above: that's 40 metres on the tabletop, which is over 131 feet. The first Gulf War had average tank combat range between 2,800 metres and 3,200 metres. 155mm artillery hits just fine at 18,000 metres with unguided shells, while with advanced shells can bring that above 30,000 metres. Let that sink in. The ranges in Warhammer are gamey, because otherwise the game would be just plain unplayable: [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim range would beat movement any time]], and the way it is now, [[SpaceCompression each range band is more like]] "pistol fight range" for ~12", "gunfight range" for ~24", "sniping range" for 36", "low-end tank range" for 48", and so on. Basically, [[NoRangeLikePointBlankRange the usual gaming table size would be too small to do any real tactics]] beyond a frantic brawl, as it would invalidate any range-related positioning.
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** There is a small problem with the point: more distance ultimately means more power for the projectile. if you can throw a bolt 10,000 meters it has to have more power than one that can only go 1,000 meters. saying that they are using varying tactics or munitions that can limit range to achieve another effect is one thing, but if they limit the range of base projectiles they are saying that they are limiting the maximum force of the projectile. If it does less damage, it is less useful. I am relatively certain the primary reason is the obvious purpose of balance.

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** There is a small problem with the point: more potential distance ultimately means more power for the projectile. if you can throw a bolt 10,000 meters it has to have more power than one that can only go 1,000 meters. saying that they are using varying tactics or munitions that can limit range to achieve another effect is one thing, but if they limit the range of base projectiles they are saying that they are limiting the maximum force of the projectile. If it does less damage, it is less useful. I am relatively certain the primary reason is the obvious purpose of balance.
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** There is a small problem with the point: more distance ultimately means more power for the projectile. if you can throw a bolt 10,000 meters it has to have more power than one that can only go 1,000 meters. saying that they are using varying tactics or munitions that can limit range to achieve another effect is one thing, but if they limit the range of base projectiles they are saying that they are limiting the maximum force of the projectile. If it does less damage, it is less useful. I am relatively certain the primary reason is the obvious balance reasons.

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** There is a small problem with the point: more distance ultimately means more power for the projectile. if you can throw a bolt 10,000 meters it has to have more power than one that can only go 1,000 meters. saying that they are using varying tactics or munitions that can limit range to achieve another effect is one thing, but if they limit the range of base projectiles they are saying that they are limiting the maximum force of the projectile. If it does less damage, it is less useful. I am relatively certain the primary reason is the obvious balance reasons.purpose of balance.
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**There is a small problem with the point: more distance ultimately means more power for the projectile. if you can throw a bolt 10,000 meters it has to have more power than one that can only go 1,000 meters. saying that they are using varying tactics or munitions that can limit range to achieve another effect is one thing, but if they limit the range of base projectiles they are saying that they are limiting the maximum force of the projectile. If it does less damage, it is less useful. I am relatively certain the primary reason is the obvious balance reasons.
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* Remember Tuska the Daemon-Killa ? The one played for fun ? The one who sailed into the Eye of Terror to find daemons to bash and quickly became Khorne's favorite plaything ? Think about this. He fought endless waves of daemon, and when he died Khorne revived him and his friends to fight some more. And when Ork fought and killed enemies, they became bigger. So, after a few thousand years in the Eye of Terror, Tuska and his buddies would become the BIGGEST, most ferocious Orks. And since they released spores, they made a constant stream of NEW ORKS who would also become GIANT. Now I wonder if Khorne had any plans for these dudes... perhaps created a giant army of giant Ork size of the Beast or greater with the experience of a Daemonic Prince (and perhaps blessed with a whole lot of power and mutations from the Immaterium), then put them on a space hulk and smashed them on some random planets.... Yeah we are fucked.
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* The tyranids' subconscious buzzing (or psychic presence) is so loud that it drowns out the warp. Warp storms are stated to have gone out because of their presence. Does that mean the Tyranids are the greatest hope for finally destroying chaos?
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** Another viable theory: it may also mean that ''gods'' are actually Games Workshop and us. WE make, buy, play, read, increasing and continuing horrors of this setting.
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*** Well, we ''do'' know that Warp became corrupted after War in the Heaven between Necrontyr/C'tan and Old Ones/Eldar/Orks/possibly others, and then came Enslavers... The scope and actions there were possibly indeed horrific.
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** No matter how advanced technology and weaponry get, the only way to take and hold ground is to put boots on it (or maybe purely mechanical feet). Even weapons that only destroy organic matter will destroy crops and livestock, which most (not all) factions require. If there's a location that has to be defended, taken mostly intact, or retaken mostly intact, at some point, that job falls to a guy with a gun.
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** While Slaanesh had a definitive birth date, once he was formed he always was, and retroactively existed even in times before (and also in other universes apparently). This (along with the older canon stating when the other gods were born being slowly phased out of canon) may mean that whatever birthed the other gods may have not yet happened. This is especially horrifying with Tzeentch, as whatever created him was so powerful and devastating it made him the most powerful of the four gods at his creation, being able to wield the metaphysical manifestation of magic itself.
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** This point doubles up as FridgeHorror.


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** This point doubles up as FridgeHorror and somewhat one more evidence for CrapsackWorld, I mean creativity is one of natural traits of humanity.


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** This point doubles up as FridgeHorror.
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* The Salamanders don't claim any successor chapters despite having several heavily implied ones (like the Black Dragons) however the Salamanders place a high value on self-reliance so any successor chapters would have to be able prove themselves without having to be tied down to it's original chapter in the Salamanders eyes.



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That example wasn't Fridge Brilliance, it was just nationalist circlejerking. You're welcome to contest this if you like, but the way I see it? It's just ridiculous.


* The moment you realize that this dark setting of absurd war, cargo cult science, religious hatred, fascism, and brutality is written by writers are from one of the most secular, best educated, and most technologically and artistically gifted countries on earth.
** Reality would like a word with you in regards to your assertions about secularism, education, and art...
** UK is neither of those. While some chunk of population is atheist/agnostic/secularist supporter, Anglican Church is the '''state''' church of the UK, Queen is its head and clergy have seats at the parliament. Education is highly doubtful. While one of the highest in the world, it comes low compared to other countries like Germany and others due to insane tution fees and currently its international rankings are quite stagnant. Technologically they are beaten by other countries be it Japan, Germany, US, France and so on. And artistically, they aren't that renown asides several sparks here and there like Conan Doyle, Oscar Wilde and so on.
** All those traits (especially the bit about artistically gifted) that you mentioned are probably the very reason why Games Workshop made this setting as grimdark as possible. And we love them for it.
** Not really contributing anything here, but GW comes from Lenton, in Nottingham. I'm from Nottingham. Not only is the GW HQ (and, by extension, Warhammer World)within walking distance, I go there all the time. It's an awesome life for me.
** Further FridgeBrilliance: Only a nation that has gotten over [[UsefulNotes/TheCrusades religious extremism]], [[TheMiddleAges oppressive governments]] and [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII devastating war]] can take such a setting lightly enough to present it as escapist entertainment.
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** UK is neither of those. While some chunk of population is atheist/agnostic/secularist supporter, Anglican Church is the '''state''' church of the UK, Queen is its head and clergy have seats at the parliament. Education is highly doubtful. While one of the highest in the world, it comes low compared to other countries like Germany and others due to insane tution fees and currently its international rankings are quite stagnant. Technologically they are beaten by other countries be it Japan, Germany, US, France and so on. And artistically, they aren't that renown asides several sparks here and there like Conan Doyle, Oscar Wilde and so on.
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Added Fridge Brilliance about craftworld eldar

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* After the eldar birthed their chaos god of The Bad Kind of Hedonism, their culture split into the ascetic Craftworld Eldar and the Dark Eldar who remained largely true to their ultra-hedonistic ways. The Craftworlders view the Dark Eldar suspiciously, as they view their ways to be dangerously close to what Slaanesh wants, preferring their Path system by which they control their impulses by dedicating themselves solely to a singular task/sphere of interest until it is mastered before moving on to the next. Then you realise that alongside general debauchery, Slaanesh is also God of Perfection. The Craftworld Eldar are feeding her via their Path system every bit as much as the Dark Eldar.
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*** The next level of Fridge Brilliance comes from the notion that the Eldar and Orks are creations of the extinct Old Ones (a species with a penchant for creating and/or meddling with other species). The brilliance emerges when you realise that every confirmed creation of the Old Ones is humanoid, indicating that it's a distinct possibility every humanoid species in 40k has been meddled with in some way by the Old Ones (already hinted at for humanity).
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* According to Phil Kelly, [[HalfHumanHybrid Eldar/human hybrids]] are very much possible. However, think about how such a union would come about: the average Imperial official would very likely execute you on the spot for even thinking about it, and given how they call us "Mon'keigh" ([[SarcasmMode subtle, by the way]]) the average Eldar would probably rather die than lie with a human. But these unions still happen, which means that it's very likely that when it does happen, one of the participants is not doing it willingly. Yikes.

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* According to Phil Kelly, [[HalfHumanHybrid Eldar/human hybrids]] are very much possible. However, think about how such a union would come about: the average Imperial official would very likely execute you on the spot for even thinking about it, and given how [[FantasticSlurs they call us "Mon'keigh" "Mon'keigh"]] ([[SarcasmMode subtle, by the way]]) the average Eldar [[FantasticRacism would probably rather die than lie with a human.human]]. But these unions still happen, which means that it's very likely that when it does happen, one of the participants is not doing it willingly. Yikes.
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* Considering that most of the major factions are somewhere between Type I and Type II on the [[AbusingTheKardashevScaleForFunAndProfit Kardashev scale]] (with local variations in cases like the Imperium), you'd think that infantry combat would be largely obsolete in 40K. It's justified for [[TheHorde Orks]], [[TheLegionsOfHell Daemons]], and Tyranids, who are either at low TechnologyLevels with a few advanced pieces of equipment here and there, use no technology apart from [[DemonicPossession daemonically possessed war machines]] and the occasional piece of {{Magitek}}, or are just a straight-up HordeOfAlienLocusts, but surely the other major factions would have switched over to full-blown armour and air-based combat? It's especially strange that the Eldar (who are not only a DyingRace, but also a solid Type II on the Kardashev scale) and Necrons (a race of super-advanced TranshumanAliens, who were specifically said to have [[HigherTechSpecies advanced their science as far as possible]]) still rely on footsoldiers to handle a lot of their combat, when the lore has shown that they clearly have the tech to turn any fight against an enemy infantry force into a CurbStompBattle.

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* Considering that most of the major factions are somewhere between Type I and Type II on the [[AbusingTheKardashevScaleForFunAndProfit [[JustForFun/AbusingTheKardashevScaleForFunAndProfit Kardashev scale]] (with local variations in cases like the Imperium), you'd think that infantry combat would be largely obsolete in 40K. It's justified for [[TheHorde Orks]], [[TheLegionsOfHell Daemons]], and Tyranids, who are either at low TechnologyLevels with a few advanced pieces of equipment here and there, use no technology apart from [[DemonicPossession daemonically possessed war machines]] and the occasional piece of {{Magitek}}, or are just a straight-up HordeOfAlienLocusts, but surely the other major factions would have switched over to full-blown armour and air-based combat? It's especially strange that the Eldar (who are not only a DyingRace, but also a solid Type II on the Kardashev scale) and Necrons (a race of super-advanced TranshumanAliens, who were specifically said to have [[HigherTechSpecies advanced their science as far as possible]]) still rely on footsoldiers to handle a lot of their combat, when the lore has shown that they clearly have the tech to turn any fight against an enemy infantry force into a CurbStompBattle.
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*** Also doubles as FridgeBrilliance.

Removed: 2380

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* ''Warhammer 40K'' casually mentions that after the many years of early FTL research, the Warp was considered the best! So one must ask, how much worse were the other forms?
** It was considered best in that it was possible through human science.
** Plus, when warp travel was first invented, the warp was relatively calm compared to the insanity of the warp in 40k; that was before Slaanesh and before 10,000 years of GrimDark war. Since using the webway would involve fighting the Eldar over it, if humans even had the technology to access it. Additionally it's implied, though not outright stated that early human ships used FTL similar to the Tau's; rather than fully entering the warp, they "stayed near the shallows", to use the SpaceIsAnOcean analogy.
** Arguably, it is the best. And it is Fridge Horror. Look at the webway, and what it is now. Your soul, in the warp, can be protected by advanced shielding, and a million other unreliable things. In the webway? You can only hope to god that an indescribably vast horde won't find you. And the Warp Spiders basically dance through that.
*** As long as you have protection from the Harlequins or the regular Eldar you're safe. The Emperor was trying to give humanity access to the Webway because while it was dangerous it was also reliably dangerous thus letting you safeguard yourself and actually being able to have a set in stone arrival date rather than I might get there in a week or I might get there 10000 thousand years 'ago'.
*** It is also shielded from Daemons.
** Or maybe its the only one that's allowed, considering the Adeptus Mechanicus have outlawed any new form of technology that's not permitted or built by them. The Tau were able to have their own means of FTL travel which is similar to the the Imperiums ability to warp jump except they can only go at short distances.
** It may have been the best in the sense that it was the fastest available to humanity. It may very well be that, by the time of the Dark Age of Technology, for example, humanity had developed Alcubierre drives, but discarded them in favor of Warp drive because Warp drive is faster. Remember, as fast as light is, it still takes years for light to get from one star even to a very close one. Faster-than-light is, in and of itself, insufficient for a galaxy-spanning civilization; you need to be able to go ''much'' faster than light.
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* The Space Wolves are vicious, savage warriors, but they're also among the nicest and most pro-normal human Chapters out there. How does this make sense? Well, most Chapters recruit neophytes when they're children or just into their teens, whereas the Space Wolves recruit young warriors who fell in battle, meaning their neophytes are older, probably 16-22. This means they had longer and more eventful mortal lives than, say, an Ultramarine- Lukas the Trickster allegedly bedded a dozen women in one night before being recruited. By the time they became Marines they had lived just about long enough to start to understand the human experience: they knew love and hate, suffering and triumph; they are more concerned with average humans because they remember what being normal was like.
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** Further FridgeBrilliance: Only a nation that has gotten over [[UsefulNotes/TheCrusades religious extremism]], [[TheMiddleAges oppressive governments]] and [[WorldWarII devastating war]] can take such a setting lightly enough to present it as escapist entertainment.

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** Further FridgeBrilliance: Only a nation that has gotten over [[UsefulNotes/TheCrusades religious extremism]], [[TheMiddleAges oppressive governments]] and [[WorldWarII [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII devastating war]] can take such a setting lightly enough to present it as escapist entertainment.



*** Another possibility is that the sponsons are to counter one of the major problems for some of the larger german tank designs of ww2, being outmaneuvered by smaller and faster vechiles. Given the size of the Baneblade, its makes sense to give it extra weapons to avoid being flanked by enemy armour or being attacked by infantry.

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*** Another possibility is that the sponsons are to counter one of the major problems for some of the larger german German tank designs of ww2, UsefulNotes/WW2, being outmaneuvered by smaller and faster vechiles. Given the size of the Baneblade, its makes sense to give it extra weapons to avoid being flanked by enemy armour or being attacked by infantry.
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** The Imperium, at least, usually only sends in the ground forces when they need something defended or captured mostly intact. If they don't then plan A is usually "nuke it from space". In lore at least most battles are in close quarters with lots of cover (much like the average game table), where infantry is much more powerful.
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***Specifically, it was Astartes tactics he observed and ''how to counter them''. This was why the Ultramarines were doing so badly, their standardized tactics were far too predictable.
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[[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]

* This Troper has a friend who complains that TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'s writers have screwed themselves over with the Tyranids. He says that this is because the Tyranids have been made out to be the biggest boogeymen of them all and so unstoppable that they cannot be stopped in universe. Then it hit me. THAT'S THE WHOLE DAMN POINT! The 40K universe is MEANT to be completely screwed. The only thing that prevents the Apocalypse from sticking is the fact that [[KillEmAll everybody is trying to wipe everyone else out!]] And [[GambitPileup they keep getting in each other's way]]. Heck, the players are LateToTheTragedy for the apocalypse, because that's what the Horus Heresy was! Therefore, the Tyranids will be dealt with, but the Imperium (and everyone else) shall endure and everything will remain happily screwed. [[RuleOfCool Because that's the way we like it.]] -- {{Hariman}}

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[[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]

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[[folder:FridgeBrilliance]]

* This Troper has a friend who complains that TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'s ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'''s writers have screwed themselves over with the Tyranids. He says that this is because the Tyranids have been made out to be the biggest boogeymen of them all and so unstoppable that they cannot be stopped in universe. Then it hit me. THAT'S THE WHOLE DAMN POINT! The 40K universe is MEANT to be completely screwed. The only thing that prevents the Apocalypse from sticking is the fact that [[KillEmAll everybody is trying to wipe everyone else out!]] And [[GambitPileup they keep getting in each other's way]]. Heck, the players are LateToTheTragedy for the apocalypse, because that's what the Horus Heresy was! Therefore, the Tyranids will be dealt with, but the Imperium (and everyone else) shall endure and everything will remain happily screwed. [[RuleOfCool Because that's the way we like it.]] -- {{Hariman}}



* A lot of the Space Marine models come with an arrow on their Pauldrons. This seems like a strange design choice until you remember that many Chaos Space Marines have a Chaos Star motif. The Chaos Star come from ''Literature/{{TheElricSaga}}'' where an arrow pointed every which way was the symbol of Chaos. The books also featured a symbol of Order. A single arrow.

[[AC:FridgeHorror]]

While most of the horror in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' is brutally obvious from first glance, there are some horrors that do not appear until you give the setting a second look:

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* A lot of the Space Marine models come with an arrow on their Pauldrons. This seems like a strange design choice until you remember that many Chaos Space Marines have a Chaos Star motif. The Chaos Star come from ''Literature/{{TheElricSaga}}'' ''Literature/TheElricSaga'' where an arrow pointed every which way was the symbol of Chaos. The books also featured a symbol of Order. A single arrow.

[[AC:FridgeHorror]]

arrow.
* The three circles/skulls that Nurgle uses as one of its symbols might not make sense until you realize that it's based on the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_hazard#/media/File:Biohazard_symbol_(black_and_yellow).png biohazard symbol]].
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Fridge Horror]]

While most of the horror in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'' is brutally obvious from first glance, there are some horrors that do not appear until you give the setting a second look:




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* A lot of the Space Marine models come with an arrow on their Pauldrons. This seems like a strange design choice until you remember that many Chaos Space Marines have a Chaos Star motif. The Chaos Star come from ''Literature/{{TheElricSaga}}'' where an arrow pointed every which way was the symbol of Chaos. The books also featured a symbol of Order. A single arrow.
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** It spent most of it's development as an Ultramarines codex, only being expanded into a generic Space Marines codex at the last minute. Suddenly the self-aggrandizing dismissal of other factions most codexes have applied to its own contents.

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