History Fridge / TheGiver

23rd Feb '16 4:41:11 PM OrangenChan
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** Well... that's exactly why the Giver stayed behind at the end. Presumably, the reasoning behind him thinking he could help them deal with the memories is because he knew about even worse things, so he'd be able to help them adjust more gradually. On the other hand, there was apparently chaos when [[spoiler: Rosemary]] was released, when she'd been given mostly ''good'' memories, so it's still going to take a lot longer than Jonas and the Giver thought it would.
7th Feb '16 7:23:40 PM Godzillawolf
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** The movie, when the memories are returned, makes this much clearer: Jonas' father had ''no idea'' what he was doing was wrong until the memories returned, and didn't take it well.
17th Jan '16 11:46:01 AM nombretomado
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** I almost hate suggesting this, but: cattle prod to the anus. Well, someone did it in LawAndOrderSVU to get sperm!

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** I almost hate suggesting this, but: cattle prod to the anus. Well, someone did it in LawAndOrderSVU ''Series/LawAndOrderSpecialVictimsUnit'' to get sperm!
5th Jan '16 11:17:17 AM RadiatedRonin
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** Another aspect to consider is that modern society has more than enough candidates for flight training, and can be choosy. The birthrate in the Community is strictly regulated, so any pilot has to come from that population. To add on the point above, the pilots are not allowed to fly beyond the border of the Community. Any danger or obstacle to a drone has been removed long before now, so really the pilots are now just flying routes that have been flown for who knows how long. You don't need color vision to confirm what has been seen literally thousands of times.
23rd Dec '14 11:37:21 AM washington213
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* While racial difference can be waved away with segregation, what about religions? People don't typically just give up their religions when you ask them to, and many of them would've had to be killed to give it up. Entire families. It would take a lot of atrocities to snuff out any and all traces of every religion in the world.
25th Nov '14 8:05:17 AM dante8
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* When the memories return at the end of the book, people are going to be severely depressed and angry, maybe even suicidal or homicidal, when they realize the significance of what they've participated in. This includes Jonas's father (with the releases), Jonas's mother (probably ordered people to be released as part of her justice job, and probably sometimes for small transgressions since it's third strike you're out), Fiona (released old people), and even Asher (for organizing games that mimicked war.) Plus think of all the people who will suddenly realize what happened to their family members and friends who didn't measure up in some way, or to that person they told on for stealing glue or staying out late or something.
28th Oct '14 1:39:07 AM thecalcographer
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**** I always thought that it was just supposed to be far enough into the future that everyone was mixed, meaning there were no longer distinct races. (Seems to be averted by the film, though)
15th Sep '14 9:29:40 PM Fireblood
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** It is suggested on the [[Headscratchers/TheGiver Headscratchers page]] that maybe those assigned to be Pilots are given color vision and they are also given the rule that they allowed to lie in their folder.

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** It is suggested on the [[Headscratchers/TheGiver Headscratchers page]] that maybe those assigned to be Pilots are given color vision and they are also given the rule that they are allowed to lie in their folder.



** Something This trouper picked out about the Birthmothers that I'm not sure if it's Fridge Horror or not: In the Community, you get your job at age 12. You have a short training period and then can give birth for three years before you are sent to do hard labor for the rest of your working life. 12, 13 and 14-year-olds are giving birth!!

to:

** Something This trouper troper picked out about the Birthmothers that I'm not sure if it's Fridge Horror or not: In the Community, you get your job at age 12. You have a short training period and then can give birth for three years before you are sent to do hard labor for the rest of your working life. 12, 13 and 14-year-olds are giving birth!!
11th Sep '14 10:06:15 PM AbraSliver
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** First, the Community itself is an enclosed totalitarian state. All pilots for a specific Community would only be flying within sanctioned locations, approved by the Council of Elders. Any signals delivered to a pilot currently flying would most likely only be assigned to that pilot, and so could be visual or auditory. Second, while the Community might be colorblind, this doesn't exclude gray-scale or patterned visual stimuli. This is even more poignant when it's realized that a society built around the lack of a color-scale would have worked to make whatever visual stimuli it still required not require colors to be effective.
6th Sep '14 12:54:48 PM creader
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* FridgeBrilliance:
** A meta-example for the movie. The previews for the movie show several pivotal differences from the book that the writers and director could have easily worked around, such as having the 'sameness' being instilled by mandatory daily injections and aging the characters up to what would appear to be their later teens. This actually makes sense when you remember that this book is more often than not read for school. The changes to the story were intentionally put there to make sure [[CheatersNeverProsper no kids would be able to cheat using the movie.]]

* FridgeHorror:
** "ReleasedToElsewhere", a trope [[TropeNamer that this book named]], usually describes a mandatory euphemism for "death". In ''The Giver'', though, we're left with the impression that the Givers and Receivers are solely responsible for carrying all of society's repressed knowledge of pain and death, and we never see anything suggesting that ''anyone'' (even the Elders) is aware that "release" is "death". It's possible, then, that the Community's leaders don't use the term euphemistically, but simply because they just don't know any better.
** At one point, Jonas receives a memory of poachers in Africa killing an elephant for its ivory, and he is baffled by the sight of men with dark skin. In his narration, he briefly says that the Giver told him that people once had different skin colors, implying that filtering out those of different races was an essential part of Sameness. Lowry is vague about how it happened, but let's be honest: when the government wants to get rid of "undesirable" races in RealLife, it's never pretty. Forced sterilization? Mass exile? Full-on ethnic cleansing? Any way you slice it, the people who started Sameness probably have some serious atrocities to answer for.
*** The methods by which sameness was achieved may not necessarily have been as horrific as sterilization and ethnic cleansing. It is mentioned that there are other communities, so potentially they only use a form of segregation in which people of different races have their own sets of communities. Each group has its' own Receiver, and does not communicate with any other communities. So the establishment of sameness may have involved some pretty strong racism, but without mass killings and sterilizations.
**** Though this also raises the question of what happened to people of mixed ethnic backgrounds. If there's a Community for every major ethnic group, what did the government do with people who couldn't fit into a single Community?
***** Good point. Maybe they put them with whichever ethnic group they looked closest to.
***** Considering how they treat twins and the disabled, it is most likely people of mixed heritage, especially ambiguous looking people, would be killed.
* FridgeLogic:
** How can people in the Community become airplane pilots if everyone in the Community [[note]]other than Givers and Receivers, obviously[[/note]] is completely colorblind?
*** Can someone explain to me why this is a problem? Not trying to be a smartass here, I genuinely don't know what the problem with color blind pilots would be.
**** Colorblind people are barred from becoming pilots in most government-run organizations [[note]]From my limited research, I ''think'' that there are some places where colorblind people can earn private pilot licenses, but I'm not entirely sure about that[[/note]] because most safety signals in aviation (runway markings, signal lights, aircraft markings, etc.) are based around color-coded lights and signs. Presumably, color-blindness can also make it harder to distinguish distance and color boundaries, which can be hazardous when flying.
*** Then why are they allowed to get driver's licenses? Cause there are fewer markings/signs/lights or did the color blind person I know lie to get his driver's license?
**** You can still read traffic lights by looking at the position of the light (green on the bottom, yellow in the middle, red on the top) and most road signs have easily recognizable shapes and symbols that you can still read if you can't see color. Color is a lot more important with air traffic signs, though, since they have to be read from much farther away. And, y'know...whether or not someone can ''theoretically'' operate a vehicle if they have to, they tend to be a lot stricter with handing out licenses when said vehicle is a 50 foot-long flying machine that can kill hundreds of people if it crashes.
*** In a society where everybody is colorblind, they probably wouldn't use color-coded signals in the first place.
*** It is suggested on the [[Headscratchers/TheGiver Headscratchers page]] that maybe those assigned to be Pilots are given color vision and they are also given the rule that they allowed to lie in their folder.

to:

!!FridgeBrilliance
* FridgeBrilliance:
**
A meta-example for the movie. The previews for the movie show several pivotal differences from the book that the writers and director could have easily worked around, such as having the 'sameness' being instilled by mandatory daily injections and aging the characters up to what would appear to be their later teens. This actually makes sense when you remember that this book is more often than not read for school. The changes to the story were intentionally put there to make sure [[CheatersNeverProsper no kids would be able to cheat using the movie.]]

!!FridgeHorror
* FridgeHorror:
**
"ReleasedToElsewhere", a trope [[TropeNamer that this book named]], usually describes a mandatory euphemism for "death". In ''The Giver'', though, we're left with the impression that the Givers and Receivers are solely responsible for carrying all of society's repressed knowledge of pain and death, and we never see anything suggesting that ''anyone'' (even the Elders) is aware that "release" is "death". It's possible, then, that the Community's leaders don't use the term euphemistically, but simply because they just don't know any better.
** * At one point, Jonas receives a memory of poachers in Africa killing an elephant for its ivory, and he is baffled by the sight of men with dark skin. In his narration, he briefly says that the Giver told him that people once had different skin colors, implying that filtering out those of different races was an essential part of Sameness. Lowry is vague about how it happened, but let's be honest: when the government wants to get rid of "undesirable" races in RealLife, it's never pretty. Forced sterilization? Mass exile? Full-on ethnic cleansing? Any way you slice it, the people who started Sameness probably have some serious atrocities to answer for.
*** ** The methods by which sameness was achieved may not necessarily have been as horrific as sterilization and ethnic cleansing. It is mentioned that there are other communities, so potentially they only use a form of segregation in which people of different races have their own sets of communities. Each group has its' own Receiver, and does not communicate with any other communities. So the establishment of sameness may have involved some pretty strong racism, but without mass killings and sterilizations.
**** *** Though this also raises the question of what happened to people of mixed ethnic backgrounds. If there's a Community for every major ethnic group, what did the government do with people who couldn't fit into a single Community?
***** **** Good point. Maybe they put them with whichever ethnic group they looked closest to.
***** **** Considering how they treat twins and the disabled, it is most likely people of mixed heritage, especially ambiguous looking people, would be killed.killed.

!!FridgeLogic
* FridgeLogic:
**
How can people in the Community become airplane pilots if everyone in the Community [[note]]other than Givers and Receivers, obviously[[/note]] is completely colorblind?
*** ** Can someone explain to me why this is a problem? Not trying to be a smartass here, I genuinely don't know what the problem with color blind pilots would be.
**** *** Colorblind people are barred from becoming pilots in most government-run organizations [[note]]From my limited research, I ''think'' that there are some places where colorblind people can earn private pilot licenses, but I'm not entirely sure about that[[/note]] because most safety signals in aviation (runway markings, signal lights, aircraft markings, etc.) are based around color-coded lights and signs. Presumably, color-blindness can also make it harder to distinguish distance and color boundaries, which can be hazardous when flying.
*** ** Then why are they allowed to get driver's licenses? Cause there are fewer markings/signs/lights or did the color blind person I know lie to get his driver's license?
**** *** You can still read traffic lights by looking at the position of the light (green on the bottom, yellow in the middle, red on the top) and most road signs have easily recognizable shapes and symbols that you can still read if you can't see color. Color is a lot more important with air traffic signs, though, since they have to be read from much farther away. And, y'know...whether or not someone can ''theoretically'' operate a vehicle if they have to, they tend to be a lot stricter with handing out licenses when said vehicle is a 50 foot-long flying machine that can kill hundreds of people if it crashes.
*** ** In a society where everybody is colorblind, they probably wouldn't use color-coded signals in the first place.
*** ** It is suggested on the [[Headscratchers/TheGiver Headscratchers page]] that maybe those assigned to be Pilots are given color vision and they are also given the rule that they allowed to lie in their folder.



*** Something This trouper picked out about the Birthmothers that I'm not sure if it's Fridge Horror or not: In the Community, you get your job at age 12. You have a short training period and then can give birth for three years before you are sent to do hard labor for the rest of your working life. 12, 13 and 14-year-olds are giving birth!!
**** Not really. Girls become sexually active around then, and are therefore physically able to give birth. Furthermore, marriage usually happened at 12-14 for girls and 13-15 for boys around the time of the Roman Empire, and was like that in some Greek city-states as well.

to:

*** ** Something This trouper picked out about the Birthmothers that I'm not sure if it's Fridge Horror or not: In the Community, you get your job at age 12. You have a short training period and then can give birth for three years before you are sent to do hard labor for the rest of your working life. 12, 13 and 14-year-olds are giving birth!!
**** *** Not really. Girls become sexually active around then, and are therefore physically able to give birth. Furthermore, marriage usually happened at 12-14 for girls and 13-15 for boys around the time of the Roman Empire, and was like that in some Greek city-states as well.
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