History Fridge / FinalFantasyVIII

* The battle between Balamb Garden and the Galbadian military, and the fact that Garden houses cadets ranging from 5 years old up to 19. Squall gives the order for junior students to be protected by the seniors, and grown up, professional [=SeeDs=] are present, but they represent only a small part of the Garden's forces. Edea and her military tried to bomb the Garden knowing that children lived there, so the Galbadian soldiers wouldn't have spared any junior classmen they might have encountered on account of their age. How many children were cut down or gunned down in that battle by adults? How many were maimed? Even if there weren't many, most of the dead are likely teenagers from 15 to 19 years old, girls and boys, still a horrible thought. And, though many students are orphans, some do have families. It was somebody's job to write to or somehow notify their families that their beloved children had been horribly killed in battle. It's all like Hogwarts, until you realize these are child soldiers.

* Seifer's status as an ArrogantKungFuGuy and his insistence on getting the kill and the XP. Since HeKnowsAboutTimedHits, we know that he has a certain knowledge of game mechanics, but anyone who knows FFVIII game strategy knows that leveling up recklessly doesn't really make you any more powerful. It makes you superficially stronger, but without the right array of level-up bonii, LevelGrinding will cripple the development of your abilities in the long term. So, back to Seifer. He's a gunblade user, amazingly strong and talented, and good enough that the majority of enemies will fall before him like chaff. Odin goes down like a punk (though that may be CutscenePowerToTheMax), and Garden security (and even Quistis) can't keep him restrained. But his blind focus on levels and personal power means that he never develops to his full potential, and so while he was stronger than Squall when they were at the Academy, he's not a match for Squall if Squall has been leveling up intelligently and using the Junction system.

** Contrast with Galbadia Garden, which was founded later than Balamb and is run by ''actual'' military personnel: discipline is strictly enforced, the climate (as noted in-game) is much less friendly and more spartan, the structure itself is still ornate, but more practical and sober than Balamb, and its student body is vastly more military-oriented and competent, as seen both during the attack and the defense during the Garden War in Disc 2; all of it withoug being overpowered by GF junction.

** What if the monsters are sent (back) to the moon?

* A lot of people complained that Ultimecia's appearance was something of an AssPull and that she never got any real development. However she was in control of Edea for over the course of the first two disk, the speech she gave when President Deling introduced her, that was Ultimecia speaking, the clothes that Edea wore when under Ultimecia's control are a ''stark'' contrast to the simple black dress she is seen wearing in the flashbacks and at the end of the game. Even the speech patterns that Edea used (if not the accent) were similar to Ultimecia's during her TheReasonYouSuckSpeech before the final battle. - @/GXNext

* Squall's stupid name. Yeah, the Final Fantasy protagonists have kind of a weather-themed name tradition going on, but it just dawned on me that his parents fit the bill. [[spoiler: Theirs are specifically ''water'' themed names. Laguna is the translation of ''lagoon'' in some Romance languages, and Raine is literally ''rain''.]]

* Seifer's status as an ArrogantKungFuGuy and his insistence on getting the kill and the XP. Since HeKnowsAboutTimedHits, we know that he has a certain knowledge of game mechanics, but anyone who knows FFVIII game strategy knows that leveling up recklessly doesn't really make you any more powerful. It makes you superficially stronger, but without the right array of level-up bonii, LevelGrinding will cripple the development of your abilities in the long term. So, back to Seifer. He's a gunblade user, amazingly strong and talented, and good enough that the majority of enemies will fall before him like chaff. Odin goes down like a punk (though that may be CutscenePowerToTheMax), Garden security (and even Quistis) can't keep him restrained. But his blind focus on levels and personal power means that he never develops to his full potential, and so while he was stronger than Squall when they were at the Academy, he's not a match for Squall if Squall has been leveling up intelligently and using the Junction system.

* Quistis losing her instructor status. Most just accept it meaning Quistis is an incapable teacher, however, she is responsible for instructing the two most talented cadets, Squall and Seifer, and Seifer's continuous outbursts are Seifer's own responsibility, even Xu says as much. Furthermore, though she is told she lacks qualities as a leader, Quistis is shown in-game to be resourceful, knowledgeable and disciplined enough to carry out the role and is typically considered to be second-in-command to Squall, even performing this role when he becomes Garden Commander, and even when she does make mistakes, she solves them immediately thanks to being able to think on her feet (such as in Galbadia's sewers). Think: Cid knew the Orphanage gang since they were children. It is no coincidence that Squall, Zell and Selphie were put together on a team on their first SeeD mission. Cid wanted them together, otherwise he would've sent Nida along, or a more experienced SeeD member. It's likely no coincidence at all that Quistis just so happens to be freed from her responsibilities as an instructor at exactly the right moment the rest of the "Fated Children" graduate. The prophecy states that the Fated Children, led by the legendary SeeD (Squall) will defeat the Sorceress. Cid knew this and reinforced the Stable Time Loop by making Squall the squad leader (a position he hadn't had before), getting the team together and by making sure Quistis was free to join the rest of her orphanage gang. When Seifer breaks out and heads to Timber, Cid doesn't send just anyone to keep an eye on him, he sends Quistis. Cid couldn't have known that Seifer, himself one of the Orphanage Gang, would be manipulated into becoming the Sorceress' Knight. Afterwards, Cid orders the assassination on Edea, specifically requesting it be done via a Sharpshooter. It is likely he knew Irvine's whereabouts and specialty, and sent the team to meet with him. It is destiny that they all get together in this quest, but it is a fate that is ensured by the participation of one who is aware of the prophecy and makes sure it is fulfilled, Headmaster Cid Kramer, Sorceress Edea's husband and likely the closest thing the orphanage gang hads to a father figure.

* The battle between Balamb Garden and the Galbadian military, and the fact that Garden houses cadets ranging from 5 years old up to 19. Squall gives the order for junior students to be protected by the seniors, and grown up, professional SeeDs are present, but they represent only a small part of the Garden's forces. Edea and her military tried to bomb the Garden knowing that children lived there, so the Galbadian soldiers wouldn't have spared any junior classmen they might have encountered on account of their age. How many children were cut down or gunned down in that battle by adults? How many were maimed? Even if there weren't many, most of the dead are likely teenagers from 15 to 19 years old, girls and boys, still a horrible thought. And, though many students are orphans, some do have families. It was somebody's job to write to or somehow notify their families that their beloved children had been horribly killed in battle. It's all like Hogwarts, until you realize these are child soldiers.

** Adding to this, Ultimecia is motivated by a desire to escape the StableTimeLoop she created and is trapped in (where she is persecuted for future crimes, and that persecution causes her to lash out and commit those crimes, leading to her persecution in the past etc.) Her solution? [[TimeCrash Break time itself]] and gain her free will back. The irony of this is that Time Compression itself is ''also'' part of the StableTimeLoop, and the reason SeeD are able to kill her. Ultimecia just can't catch a break - [[YouCantFightFate Time will always find a way to screw her over.]]

* Selphie's unique Limit Break spell: Rapture. Selphie attaches magical wings to her opponent, which is flown off-battle, thus ending the confrontation... and then what? Does she send the enemies flying into space to die a horrible death? Or perhaps even worse, do the wings wear off after a short time and the unfortunate enemy plummets down to Earth to, again, die a horrible death? Perhaps even more jarring... does she control if the wings fade or not? With Selphie's established penchant for violence, one would think twice about angering a girl who can drop you from the height of Mount Everest with just a little incantation.

* The Stable Time Loop is functionally Squall's fault as much as Ultimecia's. Squall gave Edea the idea for [=SeeD=] and the Gardens by telling her "Garden trains [=SeeDs=], and [=SeeDs=] are trained to defeat the Sorceress," which prompts Cid and Edea to build them and start building their teenage mercenary army. Which means, for however many generations between the end of ''FFVIII'' and Ultimecia's rise to power, they've been encouraging hatred against Ultimecia ''before she even did anything wrong''.

* Quistis losing her instructor status. Most just accept it meaning Quistis is an incapable teacher, however, she is responsible for instructing the two most talented cadets, Squall and Seifer, and Seifer's continuous outburst are Seifer's own responsibility, even Xu says as much. Furthermore, though she is told she lacks qualities as a leader, Quistis is shown in-game to be resourceful, knowledgeable and disciplined enough to carry out the role and is typically considered to be second-in-command to Squall, even performing this role when he becomes Garden Commander, and even when she does make mistakes, she solves them immediately thanks to being able to think on her feet (such as in Galbadia's sewers). Think: Cid knew the Orphanage gang since they were children. It is no coincidence that Squall, Zell and Selphie were put together on a team on their first SeeD mission. Cid wanted them together, otherwise he would've sent Needa along, or a more experienced SeeD member. It's likely no coincidence at all that Quistis just so happens to be freed from her responsibilities as an instructor at exactly the right moment the rest of the "Fated Children" graduate. The prophecy states that the Fated Children, led by the legendary SeeD (Squall) will defeat the Sorceress. Cid knew this and reinforced the Stable Time Loop by making Squall the squad leader (a position he hadn't had before), getting the team together and by making sure Quistis was free to join the rest of her orphanage gang. When Seifer breaks out and heads to Timber, Cid doesn't send just anyone to keep an eye on him, he sends Quistis. Cid couldn't have known that Seifer, himself one of the Orphanage Gang, would be manipulated into becoming the Sorceress' Knight. Afterwards, Cid order the assassination on Edea, specifically requesting it be done via a Sharpshooter. It is likely he knew Irvine's whereabouts and sent the team to meet with him. It's destiny that they all get together in this quest, but it is a fate that is ensured by the participation of one who is aware of the prophecy and makes sure it is fulfilled, Headmaster Cid Kramer, Sorceress Edea's husband and likely closest thing the orphanage gang had to a father figure.

* The Stable Time Loop is functionally Squall's fault as much as Ultimecia's. Squall gave Edea the idea for [=SeeD=] and the Gardens by telling her "Garden trains [=SeeDs=], and [=SeeDs=] are trained to defeat the Sorceress," which prompts Cid and Edea to build them and start building their teenage mercenary army. Which means, for however many generations between the end of ''FFVIII'' and Ultimecia's rise to power, they've been encouraging hatred against Ultimecia ''before she even did anything wrong''.
* Quistis losing her instructor status. Most just accept it meaning Quistis is an incapable teacher, however, she is responsible for instructing the two most talented cadets, Squall and Seifer, and Seifer's continuous outburst are Seifer's own responsibility, even Xu says as much. Furthermore, though she is told she lacks qualities as a leader, Quistis is shown in-game to be resourceful, knowledgeable and disciplined enough to carry out the role and is typically considered to be second-in-command to Squall, even performing this role when he becomes Garden Commander, and even when she does make mistakes, she solves them immediately thanks to being able to think on her feet (such as in Galbadia's sewers). Think: Cid knew the Orphanage gang since they were children. It is no coincidence that Squall, Zell and Selphie were put together on a team on their first SeeD mission. Cid wanted them together, otherwise he would've sent Needa along, or a more experienced SeeD member. It's likely no coincidence at all that Quistis just so happens to be freed from her responsibilities as an instructor at exactly the right moment the rest of the "Fated Children" graduate. The prophecy states that the Fated Children, led by the legendary SeeD (Squall) will defeat the Sorceress. Cid knew this and reinforced the Stable Time Loop by making Squall the squad leader (a position he hadn't had before), getting the team together and by making sure Quistis was free to join the rest of her orphanage gang. When Seifer breaks out and heads to Timber, Cid doesn't send just anyone to keep an eye on him, he sends Quistis. Cid couldn't have known that Seifer, himself one of the Orphanage Gang, would be manipulated into becoming the Sorceress' Knight. Afterwards, Cid order the assassination on Edea, specifically requesting it be done via a Sharpshooter. It is likely he knew Irvine's whereabouts and sent the team to meet with him. It's destiny that they all get together in this quest, but it is a fate that is ensured by the participation of one who is aware of the prophecy and makes sure it is fulfilled, Headmaster Cid Kramer, Sorceress Edea's husband and likely closest thing the orphanage gang had to a father figure.

* The Stable Time Loop is functionally Squall's fault as much as Ultimecia's. Squall gave Edea the idea for [=SeeD=] and the Gardens by telling her "Garden trains [=SeeDs=], and [=SeeDs=] are trained to defeat the Sorceress," which prompts Cid and Edea to build them and start building their teenage mercenary army. Which means, for however many generations between the end of ''FFVIII'' and Ultimecia's rise to power, they've been encouraging hatred against Ultimecia ''before she even did anything wrong''.

** That's perfect. You should write fanfic!

** The parallels between Squall and Seifer are pretty obvious and certainly intentional. It's more of a contrast than a direct similarity, though, since their approaches are very different - Seifer aspires to knighthood for its own sake (his "[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_(heroic_literature) romantic]] dream") so Ultimecia is able to use his aspirations to manipulate him. Squall, meanwhile, has no such aspirations and assumes the role purely for love of and in order to protect Rinoa without caring about the imagery or trappings of the role.

* The very subtle hints dropped throughout the game that [[spoiler: Squall is Laguna's son]]. For one thing, the characters selected for mind-travel tend to be random so long as [[spoiler: Ellone knew them at the orphanage]]. Squall is always selected--which is a given since he's the hero--but he ''always'' mind-travels to Laguna. All of the other characters are paired with Kiros and Ward randomly, but Squall is the only one consistent with one person. Then there's the D-District Prison, where after Squall's torture the Moombas start randomly shouting for Laguna, mistaking Squall for Laguna. Later on in the game it's revealed that Laguna interacted with Moombas and tried to teach them to speak, and that [[spoiler: Moombas identify humans by the taste of their blood]]. The fact that [[spoiler: Squall's blood tastes like Laguna's]] indicates some familial relation. Then there's the incredibly telling dialogue Kiros, Ward, and Laguna give to Squall on the Ragnarok before the final battle.

** Simpler than that: aside from the ones created during the Queen of Cards sidequest, all of the unique character cards are held by someone who is in some way connected to the person represented by the card. Ma Dincht has Zell's card, Rinoa's father has hers, Ellone has Laguna's and [[spoiler:Laguna]] has Squall's; it makes perfect sense for Cid to have Seifer's card given that, as one of the two caretakers of the orphanage and the founder and headmaster of Balamb Garden, he's the closest thing Seifer has to a father.

* Why did Headmaster Cid use Guardian Forces that can make people forget their early childhood? So he will have loyal ChildSoldier that only remember growing up under his care.

*** The most logical conclusion is that he had them train with GFs because that's the only way to have enough power to fight a Sorceress and have a chance of winning. Sure, we can fight and win without them but that's just game mechanics not what's actually supposed to be happening.
* There was a scene for Irvine that hit a lot harder in retrospect when I realized something. When Irvine is nervous and preparing [[spoiler: to assassinate the Sorceress Edea]] he's probably hiding the real reason he's troubled. Later in the game, you find out that [[spoiler: All of the principle characters were raised in the same orphanage, with Cid and Edea as caretakers, and everyone but Irvine forgot due to the influence GFs. So Irvine remembers the woman he's preparing to assassinate as a loving caretaker and mother figure. No wonder he's nervous]]

** Not only that, but apart from Rinoa, [[spoiler: he's all together with his old childhood friends....but it's clear none of them even vaguely remember him, which is something that should already hurt for someone. Combine that with the above about Edea and not only is he hollowed by that, but the fact that said friends are effectively ordering him to put a bullet to her head like it was nothing like broke him further.]] Worse, it was obviously pointless to tell them that reason at that moment as he'd be seen as crazy on top of being full of hot air about his skills. It's why it's likewise good foreshadowing that the first thing we ever see him do is to let a butterfly land on his pointed finger, which requires the precise steadiness expected of a gunner and sniper like him. Irvine's arc therefore represents the pain we all feel when [[spoiler: our old friends and the people that we loved before have outright forgotten about us]] and you just end up feeling awful for the poor guy, having to create a facade of the aloof but womanizing marksman to hide such pain.
* The Stable Time Loop is functionally Squall's fault as much as Ultimecia's. Squall gave Edea the idea for [=SeeD=] and the Gardens by telling her "Garden trains [=SeeDs=], and [=SeeDs=] are trained to defeat the Sorceress," which prompts Cid and Edea to build them and start building their teenage mercenary army. Which means, for however many generations between the end of FFVIII and Ultimecia's rise to power, they've been encouraging hatred against Ultimecia ''before she even did anything wrong''.

* Some people concluded that in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', there's a BadFuture where Ultimecia has wiped out [=SeeD=] and rules the world, and [[EsotericHappyEnding this is guaranteed]] by a StableTimeLoop. However, look closer; the dead [=SeeDs=] are within line of sight of Ultimecia's castle. Ultimecia's castle is devoid of soldiers or real security measures. Hell, some parts of the castle appear to have been hit by artillery fire. And Ultimecia is ''desperately'' trying to engage Time Compression. Heck, the first thing she does when she takes over Galbadia in the past is to ''attempt to destroy Garden'' and thus wipe out the [=SeeDs=] before they even really exist. Looking at this evidence, there is an alternate conclusion as to the "bad" future: ''[=SeeD=] was winning the war'' and Ultimecia's use of the Junction Machine Ellone was a [[{{Terminator}} Skynet]]-esque desperation tactic to stave off defeat - in which case, ''the happy ending is reinforced'', not ruined.

** Not only that, but apart from Rinoa, [[spoiler: he's all together with his old childhood friends....but it's clear none of them even vaguely remember him, which is something that should already hurt for someone. Combine that with the above about Edea and not only is he hollowed by that, but the fact that said friends are effectively ordering him to put a bullet to her head like it was nothing like broke him further. Worse, it was obviously pointless to tell them that reason at that moment as he'd be seen as crazy on top of being full of hot air about his skills. It's why it's likewise good foreshadowing that the first thing we ever see him do is to let a butterfly land on his pointed finger, which requires the precise steadiness expected of a gunner and sniper like him.