Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
General clarification on work content
Changed line(s) 43 (click to see context) from:
** Upon his return, Barry Allen acquired a new, somewhat divisive {{backstory}} -- his mother was murdered by ComicBook/EobardThawne, and his father framed for the crime. Many view it as unnecessarily DarkerAndEdgier, noting that Barry being inspired by Jay Garrick (at the time of his creation, a seemingly-fictional comic book character on Earth-1, and post-ComicBook/{{Crisis|OnInfiniteEarths}}, an established hero) to become a hero out of altruism was already a reasonable origin, in tandem with his powers being the result of an accident that doused him with chemicals. Wally West underwent a similar treatment after becoming the Flash -- his parents, once portrayed as overly strict but well-meaning, were retconned into being [[AbusiveParents abusive]]. However, that was done as an attempt to reconcile the ValuesDissonance of the Wests' [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] portrayals, and was used to flesh out his bond with Barry and Iris more, making his previous stories HeartwarmingInHindsight (and it helped that reliance on the retconned backstory was kept in check). Barry's new backstory, on the other hand, does not have any retroactive heartwarming elements to it, and grew to overshadow Barry's entire character -- even his famous costume ring ties back to Nora's death.
to:
** Upon his return, Barry Allen acquired a new, somewhat divisive {{backstory}} in ''ComicBook/TheFlashRebirth'' -- his mother was murdered by ComicBook/EobardThawne, Eobard Thawne, and his father framed for the crime. Many view it as unnecessarily DarkerAndEdgier, noting that Barry being inspired by Jay Garrick (at the time of his creation, a seemingly-fictional comic book character on Earth-1, and post-ComicBook/{{Crisis|OnInfiniteEarths}}, an established hero) to become a hero out of altruism was already a reasonable origin, in tandem with his powers being the result of an accident that doused him with chemicals. Wally West underwent a similar treatment after becoming the Flash -- his parents, once portrayed as overly strict but well-meaning, were retconned into being [[AbusiveParents abusive]]. However, that was done as an attempt to reconcile the ValuesDissonance of the Wests' [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] portrayals, and was used to flesh out his bond with Barry and Iris more, making his previous stories HeartwarmingInHindsight (and it helped that reliance on the retconned backstory was kept in check). Barry's new backstory, on the other hand, does not have any retroactive heartwarming elements to it, and grew to overshadow Barry's entire character -- even his famous costume ring ties back to Nora's death.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Moving to Transformers page.
Changed line(s) 94,95 (click to see context) from:
* As argued in [[http://kotaku.com/how-snoopy-killed-peanuts-1724269473 this article]] by Kevin Wong of Kotaku, the WolverinePublicity given to Snoopy starting in the '60s foreshadowed how ''ComicStrip/{{Peanuts}}'' transformed from a grounded and fairly dark SliceOfLife comic strip into the [[SweetnessAversion shallow and saccharine pap]] that marked its AudienceAlienatingEra from the late '70s onward. Originally, Snoopy was written as a normal dog, but as he started to gain an actual personality (for lack of a better term), he and his fantastic adventures became a nice contrast to the rest of the strip. In time, however, the increasing humanization of Snoopy grew out of control, the strip focusing more on putting Snoopy in goofy costumes and crazy situations as opposed to the social commentary on growing up that was the strip's hallmark in its early days. Other characters were pushed OutOfFocus, while depth fell by the wayside in favor of gags and cuteness. Eventually, it culminated in the addition of other animal characters, such as Woodstock (who existed pretty much ''just'' to be cute) and Snoopy's family, meaning that Snoopy didn't have to interact much with the human characters at all anymore.
* Creator/SimonFurman has always had problems accepting the idea of Franchise/{{Transformers}} being a gendered species, having always headcanoned them as an asexual genderless species who only use gendered pronouns for dealing with other races. This means he will write them as such unless mandated otherwise. While he's usually good about not letting it affect his stories, it means he stumbles when it's time to female Cybertronians to show up and he feels the need to justify it, such as in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMarvel'', where he attempted to explain it in a one-shot story for the UK printing called "Prime's Rib!" where Optimus had Arcee built to appease angry feminists. That one got a pass because of how tongue-in-cheek the whole thing was and the franchise was still relatively young at the time. But as the franchise grew more popular and began more extensive gender diversification, Furman's views began to conflict more with canon. This culminated in Arcee's introduction in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'' where she was born with a male body and was driven mad from a sex change from Jhiaxus. This came off as unintentionally offensive to trans people and got him in hot water with fellow author Mairghread Scott, though the two eventually worked it out. Later stories would retcon the finer details to change the anger to trauma from Jhiaxus having abandoned Arcee as a failure, but the poor introduction would follow Arcee to the comic's end.
* Creator/SimonFurman has always had problems accepting the idea of Franchise/{{Transformers}} being a gendered species, having always headcanoned them as an asexual genderless species who only use gendered pronouns for dealing with other races. This means he will write them as such unless mandated otherwise. While he's usually good about not letting it affect his stories, it means he stumbles when it's time to female Cybertronians to show up and he feels the need to justify it, such as in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMarvel'', where he attempted to explain it in a one-shot story for the UK printing called "Prime's Rib!" where Optimus had Arcee built to appease angry feminists. That one got a pass because of how tongue-in-cheek the whole thing was and the franchise was still relatively young at the time. But as the franchise grew more popular and began more extensive gender diversification, Furman's views began to conflict more with canon. This culminated in Arcee's introduction in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'' where she was born with a male body and was driven mad from a sex change from Jhiaxus. This came off as unintentionally offensive to trans people and got him in hot water with fellow author Mairghread Scott, though the two eventually worked it out. Later stories would retcon the finer details to change the anger to trauma from Jhiaxus having abandoned Arcee as a failure, but the poor introduction would follow Arcee to the comic's end.
to:
* As argued in [[http://kotaku.com/how-snoopy-killed-peanuts-1724269473 this article]] by Kevin Wong of Kotaku, the WolverinePublicity given to Snoopy starting in the '60s foreshadowed how ''ComicStrip/{{Peanuts}}'' transformed from a grounded and fairly dark SliceOfLife comic strip into the [[SweetnessAversion shallow and saccharine pap]] that marked its AudienceAlienatingEra from the late '70s onward. Originally, Snoopy was written as a normal dog, but as he started to gain an actual personality (for lack of a better term), he and his fantastic adventures became a nice contrast to the rest of the strip. In time, however, the increasing humanization of Snoopy grew out of control, the strip focusing more on putting Snoopy in goofy costumes and crazy situations as opposed to the social commentary on growing up that was the strip's hallmark in its early days. Other characters were pushed OutOfFocus, while depth fell by the wayside in favor of gags and cuteness. Eventually, it culminated in the addition of other animal characters, such as Woodstock (who existed pretty much ''just'' to be cute) and Snoopy's family, meaning that Snoopy didn't have to interact much with the human characters at all anymore.
* Creator/SimonFurman has always had problems accepting the idea of Franchise/{{Transformers}} being a gendered species, having always headcanoned them as an asexual genderless species who only use gendered pronouns for dealing with other races. This means he will write them as such unless mandated otherwise. While he's usually good about not letting it affect his stories, it means he stumbles when it's time to female Cybertronians to show up and he feels the need to justify it, such as in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMarvel'', where he attempted to explain it in a one-shot story for the UK printing called "Prime's Rib!" where Optimus had Arcee built to appease angry feminists. That one got a pass because of how tongue-in-cheek the whole thing was and the franchise was still relatively young at the time. But as the franchise grew more popular and began more extensive gender diversification, Furman's views began to conflict more with canon. This culminated in Arcee's introduction in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'' where she was born with a male body and was driven mad from a sex change from Jhiaxus. This came off as unintentionally offensive to trans people and got him in hot water with fellow author Mairghread Scott, though the two eventually worked it out. Later stories would retcon the finer details to change the anger to trauma from Jhiaxus having abandoned Arcee as a failure, but the poor introduction would follow Arcee to the comic's end.anymore.
* Creator/SimonFurman has always had problems accepting the idea of Franchise/{{Transformers}} being a gendered species, having always headcanoned them as an asexual genderless species who only use gendered pronouns for dealing with other races. This means he will write them as such unless mandated otherwise. While he's usually good about not letting it affect his stories, it means he stumbles when it's time to female Cybertronians to show up and he feels the need to justify it, such as in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMarvel'', where he attempted to explain it in a one-shot story for the UK printing called "Prime's Rib!" where Optimus had Arcee built to appease angry feminists. That one got a pass because of how tongue-in-cheek the whole thing was and the franchise was still relatively young at the time. But as the franchise grew more popular and began more extensive gender diversification, Furman's views began to conflict more with canon. This culminated in Arcee's introduction in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'' where she was born with a male body and was driven mad from a sex change from Jhiaxus. This came off as unintentionally offensive to trans people and got him in hot water with fellow author Mairghread Scott, though the two eventually worked it out. Later stories would retcon the finer details to change the anger to trauma from Jhiaxus having abandoned Arcee as a failure, but the poor introduction would follow Arcee to the comic's end.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'': While cleaning up the ContinuitySnarl that was the multiverse was a good idea, bringing {{Retcon}} to whole new levels and bringing about UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks did not help things.
to:
* ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'': While cleaning up the ContinuitySnarl that was the multiverse was a good idea, bringing {{Retcon}} to whole new levels and bringing about UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks MediaNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks did not help things.
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* The ComicBook/New52 was frequently criticized for its TrueArtIsAngsty and DarkerAndEdgier tendencies, but it started earlier than that. Starting in 2004 with the success of ''ComicBook/IdentityCrisis2004'', DC took the success of that book as tacit permission to indulge in being darker and edgier, bringing UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks back and pushing it to even higher levels of excess. After a decade and a half, the release and fan and critical thrashing of ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis'', along with a big case of CondemnedByHistory led to ''Identity Crisis'' being seen as the starting point for a lot of what went wrong with DC comics in the '00s and '10s.
to:
* The ComicBook/New52 was frequently criticized for its TrueArtIsAngsty and DarkerAndEdgier tendencies, but it started earlier than that. Starting in 2004 with the success of ''ComicBook/IdentityCrisis2004'', DC took the success of that book as tacit permission to indulge in being darker and edgier, bringing UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks MediaNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks back and pushing it to even higher levels of excess. After a decade and a half, the release and fan and critical thrashing of ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis'', along with a big case of CondemnedByHistory led to ''Identity Crisis'' being seen as the starting point for a lot of what went wrong with DC comics in the '00s and '10s.
Changed line(s) 18,19 (click to see context) from:
** The comics in general have an original sin in that Superman's powers were not only extraordinary but also never really well defined. "Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound!" still leaves a lot of leeway regarding Superman's speed and strength. Not only that, but before UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks was over, extra powers such as super-hearing, flying and x-ray sight were added to Supes' power roster. This led straight into the [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] and its penchant for piling up Superman's over-the-top powers such as super-ventriloquism, which in turn ended in power downgrades for Superman whenever reboots occurred. As a result, Superman's level of strength is [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe notorious for fluctuating]] ridiculously depending on whether the writers want him to be an upper-mid-tier hero or a nascent deity.
** ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' is the TropeCodifier for the modern overuse of DeathIsCheap in comic books: a story in which ''the'' major superhero of the DC universe dies and is brought back over the course of a major storyline. However, back then, killing Superman was actually ''shocking'' to the audience because it hadn't been done to death yet[[note]]There were previous examples, such as the resurrection of Jean Grey, but they were rare and usually not planned from the start.[[/note]], created immense EmotionalTorque, and the Reign of the Supermen was a brilliant takedown of the NinetiesAntiHero. It's still a classic of comic book storytelling and a point of light in UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks, but it also [[FollowTheLeader set such a trend]] for future Character Deaths that the comic book afterlife had to have a revolving door installed.
** ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' is the TropeCodifier for the modern overuse of DeathIsCheap in comic books: a story in which ''the'' major superhero of the DC universe dies and is brought back over the course of a major storyline. However, back then, killing Superman was actually ''shocking'' to the audience because it hadn't been done to death yet[[note]]There were previous examples, such as the resurrection of Jean Grey, but they were rare and usually not planned from the start.[[/note]], created immense EmotionalTorque, and the Reign of the Supermen was a brilliant takedown of the NinetiesAntiHero. It's still a classic of comic book storytelling and a point of light in UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks, but it also [[FollowTheLeader set such a trend]] for future Character Deaths that the comic book afterlife had to have a revolving door installed.
to:
** The comics in general have an original sin in that Superman's powers were not only extraordinary but also never really well defined. "Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound!" still leaves a lot of leeway regarding Superman's speed and strength. Not only that, but before UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks MediaNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks was over, extra powers such as super-hearing, flying and x-ray sight were added to Supes' power roster. This led straight into the [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] and its penchant for piling up Superman's over-the-top powers such as super-ventriloquism, which in turn ended in power downgrades for Superman whenever reboots occurred. As a result, Superman's level of strength is [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe notorious for fluctuating]] ridiculously depending on whether the writers want him to be an upper-mid-tier hero or a nascent deity.
** ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' is the TropeCodifier for the modern overuse of DeathIsCheap in comic books: a story in which ''the'' major superhero of the DC universe dies and is brought back over the course of a major storyline. However, back then, killing Superman was actually ''shocking'' to the audience because it hadn't been done to death yet[[note]]There were previous examples, such as the resurrection of Jean Grey, but they were rare and usually not planned from the start.[[/note]], created immense EmotionalTorque, and the Reign of the Supermen was a brilliant takedown of the NinetiesAntiHero. It's still a classic of comic book storytelling and a point of light inUsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks, MediaNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks, but it also [[FollowTheLeader set such a trend]] for future Character Deaths that the comic book afterlife had to have a revolving door installed.
** ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' is the TropeCodifier for the modern overuse of DeathIsCheap in comic books: a story in which ''the'' major superhero of the DC universe dies and is brought back over the course of a major storyline. However, back then, killing Superman was actually ''shocking'' to the audience because it hadn't been done to death yet[[note]]There were previous examples, such as the resurrection of Jean Grey, but they were rare and usually not planned from the start.[[/note]], created immense EmotionalTorque, and the Reign of the Supermen was a brilliant takedown of the NinetiesAntiHero. It's still a classic of comic book storytelling and a point of light in
Changed line(s) 43 (click to see context) from:
** Upon his return, Barry Allen acquired a new, somewhat divisive {{backstory}} -- his mother was murdered by ComicBook/EobardThawne, and his father framed for the crime. Many view it as unnecessarily DarkerAndEdgier, noting that Barry being inspired by Jay Garrick (at the time of his creation, a seemingly-fictional comic book character on Earth-1, and post-ComicBook/{{Crisis|OnInfiniteEarths}}, an established hero) to become a hero out of altruism was already a reasonable origin, in tandem with his powers being the result of an accident that doused him with chemicals. Wally West underwent a similar treatment after becoming the Flash -- his parents, once portrayed as overly strict but well-meaning, were retconned into being [[AbusiveParents abusive]]. However, that was done as an attempt to reconcile the ValuesDissonance of the Wests' [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] portrayals, and was used to flesh out his bond with Barry and Iris more, making his previous stories HeartwarmingInHindsight (and it helped that reliance on the retconned backstory was kept in check). Barry's new backstory, on the other hand, does not have any retroactive heartwarming elements to it, and grew to overshadow Barry's entire character -- even his famous costume ring ties back to Nora's death.
to:
** Upon his return, Barry Allen acquired a new, somewhat divisive {{backstory}} -- his mother was murdered by ComicBook/EobardThawne, and his father framed for the crime. Many view it as unnecessarily DarkerAndEdgier, noting that Barry being inspired by Jay Garrick (at the time of his creation, a seemingly-fictional comic book character on Earth-1, and post-ComicBook/{{Crisis|OnInfiniteEarths}}, an established hero) to become a hero out of altruism was already a reasonable origin, in tandem with his powers being the result of an accident that doused him with chemicals. Wally West underwent a similar treatment after becoming the Flash -- his parents, once portrayed as overly strict but well-meaning, were retconned into being [[AbusiveParents abusive]]. However, that was done as an attempt to reconcile the ValuesDissonance of the Wests' [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] portrayals, and was used to flesh out his bond with Barry and Iris more, making his previous stories HeartwarmingInHindsight (and it helped that reliance on the retconned backstory was kept in check). Barry's new backstory, on the other hand, does not have any retroactive heartwarming elements to it, and grew to overshadow Barry's entire character -- even his famous costume ring ties back to Nora's death.
Changed line(s) 78 (click to see context) from:
** The three sequels/spinoffs -- ''1602: New World'', ''1602: [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Fantastick Four]]'', and ''1602: ComicBook/SpiderMan'' -- are generally [[{{Sequelitis}} not fondly remembered]] by most Creator/MarvelComics fans, largely because they focus so heavily on distinctly [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] characters who ''really'' don't fit the Elizabethan setting (like ComicBook/SpiderMan, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk the Hulk]], ComicBook/IronMan, and ComicBook/SubMariner), and because many of their AlternateUniverse versions of characters come across as lazy and unimaginative (like turning most of Spider-Man's RoguesGallery into ''pirates''). The first part, at least, was also somewhat true in Creator/NeilGaiman's original: that book also featured [[AdaptationNameChange Peter Parquah]] as a main character and [[AdaptationNameChange David Banner]] as a supporting character, but it didn't give either of them superpowers until the ''very last pages''; for the rest of the book, Peter was just a pageboy for a royal knight, and Banner was just a close advisor to King James. When the followups actually tried to build stories around Peter and Banner as a masked adventurer and a mutated monster, they stuck out even more. And when they ''also'' tried to make the King of Atlantis and a nobleman in [[PoweredArmor robotic armor]] fit in the 17th century, it just made the problem even worse.
to:
** The three sequels/spinoffs -- ''1602: New World'', ''1602: [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Fantastick Four]]'', and ''1602: ComicBook/SpiderMan'' -- are generally [[{{Sequelitis}} not fondly remembered]] by most Creator/MarvelComics fans, largely because they focus so heavily on distinctly [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] characters who ''really'' don't fit the Elizabethan setting (like ComicBook/SpiderMan, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk the Hulk]], ComicBook/IronMan, and ComicBook/SubMariner), and because many of their AlternateUniverse versions of characters come across as lazy and unimaginative (like turning most of Spider-Man's RoguesGallery into ''pirates''). The first part, at least, was also somewhat true in Creator/NeilGaiman's original: that book also featured [[AdaptationNameChange Peter Parquah]] as a main character and [[AdaptationNameChange David Banner]] as a supporting character, but it didn't give either of them superpowers until the ''very last pages''; for the rest of the book, Peter was just a pageboy for a royal knight, and Banner was just a close advisor to King James. When the followups actually tried to build stories around Peter and Banner as a masked adventurer and a mutated monster, they stuck out even more. And when they ''also'' tried to make the King of Atlantis and a nobleman in [[PoweredArmor robotic armor]] fit in the 17th century, it just made the problem even worse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** A major critique of ''League'' is its use of sexual assault, which many readers found to be over-the-line. However, sexual assault has been a consistent element of Alan Moore stories since the early days of his career--it's not for no reason that Creator/GrantMorrison grumbled that it was hard to find a Moore story that ''didn't'' feature it at some point. The difference is that prior Moore efforts used it pretty judiciously: for instance, ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'' features only one explicit rape, and said rape is given a lot of time in the narrative to dwell on its consequences and how it affected the characters involved, making it clear that Moore thought pretty hard about it. Conversely, ''League'' [[GratuitousRape features an attempted rape only five pages into the main story]], and doesn't really slow down from there, with two of the original League being rapists and the sole woman being a survivor of a deliberately-eroticized assault. What was more, the sheer frequency of these events meant that a lot of them simply weren't given time to bake, reducing them to KarmicRape, BlackComedyRape, and just general cliche--it stopped feeling like Moore was thinking about rape and its effects, and more like he was just throwing it in whenever he needed to establish a male character as evil or a female character as troubled. The fact that Moore was using existing characters whose works generally didn't feature that kind of content didn't help: for instance, ''Pirate Jenny'' is already a RevengeBallad that gives a clear reason for why the titular character betrays her hometown and becomes a pirate, but Moore [[RapeAsBackstory threw in the idea of her being raped by the townsfolk anyway]]. In short, while you couldn't remove the rape from ''Watchmen'' without seriously altering the story and characters, you could easily do it for most of the rapes in ''League''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 53,54 (click to see context) from:
*** Vanessa Kapatelis' SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome in the Jiminez run was contentious even back then and it's adaptation in James Robinson's ''ComicBook/WonderWomanRebirth'' run and ''WesternAnimation/WonderWomanBloodlines'' haven't done the concept any favors. However, the shock of seeing Vanessa as a villain worked when Jiminez did it because Vanessa had a long history spanning 60+ issues as a beloved supporting character. ''Rebirth'' has Vanessa's friendship with Diana and subsequent FaceHeelTurn occur in the space of one issue and ''Bloodlines'' completely inverts their relationship by making Vanessa hostile towards and jealous of Diana, removing the tragedy of the arc.
to:
*** Vanessa Kapatelis' SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome into the third Silver Swan in the Jiminez run was contentious even back then and it's adaptation in James Robinson's ''ComicBook/WonderWomanRebirth'' run and ''WesternAnimation/WonderWomanBloodlines'' haven't done the concept any favors. However, the shock of seeing Vanessa as a villain worked when Jiminez did it because Vanessa had a long history spanning 60+ issues as a beloved supporting character. ''Rebirth'' has Vanessa's friendship with Diana and subsequent FaceHeelTurn occur in the space of one issue and ''Bloodlines'' completely inverts their relationship by making Vanessa hostile towards and jealous of Diana, removing the tragedy of the arc.
