History DracoInLeatherPants / Literature

7th Mar '17 4:20:43 PM MrThorfan64
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** The minor [[EnfantTerrible "Big" Walder Frey]] is gaining a following, partially due to the influence of the Tumblr writer Poor Quentyn, who called them his "favorite minor character" in [[http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/120497478148/big-walder-the-builder this post]]. Big Walder at a young age is plotting to become Lord of the Crossing despite being very low in the line of succession (he's the son of Lord Walder Frey's 12th son), implying he means to murder a lot of relatives. Its almost certain he stabbed his cousin "Little" Walder to death to move up the line of succession, even though they were both about 9. However Big Walder still comes across as fairly likable, considering how unlikable most of the Freys ahead of him are. While Little Walder was constantly portrayed as a bully and was becoming worse, Big Walder shows a nicer side in ADWD, being one of the few people who's kind to Theon, and, as Poor Quentyn notes, there is something comicable about a child going on about how they'll be a Lord.

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** The minor [[EnfantTerrible "Big" Walder Frey]] is gaining a following, partially due to the influence of the Tumblr writer Poor Quentyn, who called them his "favorite minor character" in [[http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/120497478148/big-walder-the-builder this post]]. Big Walder at a young age is plotting to become Lord of the Crossing despite being very low in the line of succession (he's the son of Lord Walder Frey's 12th 13th son), implying he means to murder a lot of relatives. Its almost certain he stabbed his cousin "Little" Walder to death to move up the line of succession, even though they were both about 9. However Big Walder still comes across as fairly likable, considering how unlikable most of the Freys ahead of him are. While Little Walder was constantly portrayed as a bully and was becoming worse, worse over ADWD, Big Walder shows a nicer side in ADWD, being one of the few people who's kind to Theon, and, as Poor Quentyn notes, there is something comicable comicale about a child going on about how they'll be a Lord.
7th Mar '17 4:19:40 PM MrThorfan64
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** The minor [[InfantTerrible "Big" Walder Frey]] is gaining a following, partially due to the influence of the Tumblr writer Poor Quentyn, who called them his "favorite minor character" in [[http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/120497478148/big-walder-the-builder this post]]. Big Walder at a young age is plotting to become Lord of the Crossing despite being very low in the line of succession (he's the son of Lord Walder Frey's 12th son), implying he means to murder a lot of relatives. Its almost certain he stabbed his cousin "Little" Walder to death to move up the line of succession, even though they were both about 9. However Big Walder still comes across as fairly likable, considering how unlikable most of the Freys ahead of him are. While Little Walder was constantly portrayed as a bully and was becoming worse, Big Walder shows a nicer side in ADWD, being one of the few people who's kind to Theon, and, as Poor Quentyn notes, there is something comicable about a child going on about how they'll be a Lord.

to:

** The minor [[InfantTerrible [[EnfantTerrible "Big" Walder Frey]] is gaining a following, partially due to the influence of the Tumblr writer Poor Quentyn, who called them his "favorite minor character" in [[http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/120497478148/big-walder-the-builder this post]]. Big Walder at a young age is plotting to become Lord of the Crossing despite being very low in the line of succession (he's the son of Lord Walder Frey's 12th son), implying he means to murder a lot of relatives. Its almost certain he stabbed his cousin "Little" Walder to death to move up the line of succession, even though they were both about 9. However Big Walder still comes across as fairly likable, considering how unlikable most of the Freys ahead of him are. While Little Walder was constantly portrayed as a bully and was becoming worse, Big Walder shows a nicer side in ADWD, being one of the few people who's kind to Theon, and, as Poor Quentyn notes, there is something comicable about a child going on about how they'll be a Lord.
4th Mar '17 4:00:06 PM DaibhidC
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** In ''Discworld/CarpeJugulum'', Pratchett deliberately subverts the trope at the end, when the dashingly gorgeous male vampire asks his object of affection, the young witch Agnes, if she'd reason with the mob to save him from the stake. Her SplitPersonality Perdita is tempted, but Agnes, whose qualifications as a [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Witch of Lancre]] derive from her being sensible and intelligent remembers some of the evil things she's seen the vampires do. She tells him that she wouldn't just let the mob kill him, she'd hold their coats for them while they did it.

to:

** In ''Discworld/CarpeJugulum'', Pratchett deliberately subverts the trope at the end, when the dashingly gorgeous male vampire asks his object of affection, the young witch Agnes, if she'd reason with the mob to save him from the stake. Her SplitPersonality Perdita is tempted, but Agnes, whose qualifications as a [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Witch of Lancre]] derive from her being sensible and intelligent intelligent, remembers some of the evil things she's seen the vampires do. She tells him that she wouldn't just let the mob kill him, she'd hold their coats for them while they did it.
20th Feb '17 1:05:05 AM tonystork
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* Remember ''Literature/FightClub''[='=]s Tyler Durden? Of course. Everyone in the real world loved him and wanted to be him (which is delicious irony), because he's good-looking, strong and charismatic. So he became a cultural phenomenon, but the obvious nuttiness was overlooked.
12th Feb '17 4:08:48 PM MrThorfan64
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** The minor [[InfantTerrible "Big" Walder Frey]] is gaining a following, partially due to the influence of the Tumblr writer Poor Quentyn, who called them his "favorite minor character" in [[http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/120497478148/big-walder-the-builder this post]]. Big Walder at a young age is plotting to become Lord of the Crossing despite being very low in the line of succession (he's the son of Lord Walder Frey's 12th son), implying he means to murder a lot of relatives. Its almost certain he stabbed his cousin "Little" Walder to death to move up the line of succession, even though they were both about 9. However Big Walder still comes across as fairly likable, considering how unlikable most of the Freys ahead of him are. While Little Walder was constantly portrayed as a bully and was becoming worse, Big Walder shows a nicer side in ADWD, being one of the few people who's kind to Theon, and, as Poor Quentyn notes, there is something comicable about a child going on about how they'll be a Lord.
23rd Jan '17 1:59:17 PM Morgenthaler
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* Heathcliff in ''Literature/WutheringHeights'' has received this treatment over the years, having become something of an archetype of the tortured-but-dashing Gothic Romantic Hero With A Heart Of Gold, up there with Mr. Darcy from ''PrideAndPrejudice'' and Mr. Edward Rochester from ''Literature/JaneEyre''. This completely overlooks the fact that, within the novel, he's presented as a repellent, violent, and obsessively vindictive bully who spitefully destroys everyone who ever looked cross-eyed at him... and then, when they're dead, immediately does his best to destroy the lives of their ''children'' instead.

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* Heathcliff in ''Literature/WutheringHeights'' has received this treatment over the years, having become something of an archetype of the tortured-but-dashing Gothic Romantic Hero With A Heart Of Gold, up there with Mr. Darcy from ''PrideAndPrejudice'' ''Literature/PrideAndPrejudice'' and Mr. Edward Rochester from ''Literature/JaneEyre''. This completely overlooks the fact that, within the novel, he's presented as a repellent, violent, and obsessively vindictive bully who spitefully destroys everyone who ever looked cross-eyed at him... and then, when they're dead, immediately does his best to destroy the lives of their ''children'' instead.
18th Jan '17 4:23:29 PM BrendanRizzo
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** Feanor himself is universally lionized despite causing all the conflict in the first place, because, despite being a selfish and paranoid bastard who takes any disagreement or well-meaning advice as utter emnity, he is also an omnidisciplinary genius and complete and utter badass.

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** Feanor himself is universally lionized despite causing all the conflict in the first place, because, despite being a selfish and paranoid bastard who takes any disagreement or well-meaning advice as utter emnity, enmity, he is also an omnidisciplinary genius and complete and utter badass.
6th Nov '16 4:09:20 PM dlchen145
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** Then there's Scourge, the leader of [=BloodClan=]. His fans tend to come in two varieties: Those who think he's a {{Badass}}, and those who pity him due to his [[FreudianExcuse rough childhood]]. However, the latter group is mostly made up of MisaimedFandom - the [[WordOfGod author's note]] included in ''The Rise of Scourge'' specifically says that in writing the story they were trying to ''explain'' Scourge's evil behavior, and establish him as a {{Foil}} to Firestar, not ''justify'' what he did. In fact, when Scourge's abusive siblings - Socks and Ruby - come to Scourge after being abandoned by their owners, Scourge seems to have gotten over their bullying enough to simply have them chased away, rather than getting any sort of revenge on them. The fact that he continues to be evil despite having got over what originally ''made'' him one shows that his rough childhood doesn't excuse him for his atrocities.

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** Then there's Scourge, the leader of [=BloodClan=]. His fans tend to come in two varieties: Those who think he's a {{Badass}}, badass, and those who pity him due to his [[FreudianExcuse rough childhood]]. However, the latter group is mostly made up of MisaimedFandom - the [[WordOfGod author's note]] included in ''The Rise of Scourge'' specifically says that in writing the story they were trying to ''explain'' Scourge's evil behavior, and establish him as a {{Foil}} to Firestar, not ''justify'' what he did. In fact, when Scourge's abusive siblings - Socks and Ruby - come to Scourge after being abandoned by their owners, Scourge seems to have gotten over their bullying enough to simply have them chased away, rather than getting any sort of revenge on them. The fact that he continues to be evil despite having got over what originally ''made'' him one shows that his rough childhood doesn't excuse him for his atrocities.



** Perhaps the greatest ''Star Wars'' example though, is Literature/DarthBane. He's a merciless, child-murdering monster of a VillainProtagonist, yet many fans overlooked that in favor of how {{Badass}} he was.

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** Perhaps the greatest ''Star Wars'' example though, is Literature/DarthBane. He's a merciless, child-murdering monster of a VillainProtagonist, yet many fans overlooked that in favor of how {{Badass}} badass he was.



** Feanor himself is universally lionized despite causing all the conflict in the first place, because, despite being a selfish and paranoid bastard who takes any disagreement or well-meaning advice as utter emnity, he is also an omnidisciplinary genius and complete and utter {{Badass}}.

to:

** Feanor himself is universally lionized despite causing all the conflict in the first place, because, despite being a selfish and paranoid bastard who takes any disagreement or well-meaning advice as utter emnity, he is also an omnidisciplinary genius and complete and utter {{Badass}}.badass.
12th Oct '16 4:26:57 AM Morgenthaler
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** Got referenced in [[http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2231.html this]] ''IrregularWebcomic'' strip (with link to this page, of course), when Cthulhu has problems dealing with fans wanting his autograph.

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** Got referenced in [[http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2231.html this]] ''IrregularWebcomic'' ''Webcomic/IrregularWebcomic'' strip (with link to this page, of course), when Cthulhu has problems dealing with fans wanting his autograph.



** Another CthulhuMythos creature that gets this treatment in some sects of the fandom - [[MagnificentBastard Nyarlathotep]]. Yes, [[EldritchAbomination that one]], [[BlueAndOrangeMorality the one that messes with humans]] [[ItAmusedMe because he's bored]]. It doesn't help that Lovecraft himself basically described him as being "[[TallDarkAndHandsome Slender, swarthy]][[EvilIsSexy , and sinister]]" in one story, or that he appears as a rather attractive-looking Pharaoh in ''Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath''.

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** Another CthulhuMythos Franchise/CthulhuMythos creature that gets this treatment in some sects of the fandom - [[MagnificentBastard Nyarlathotep]]. Yes, [[EldritchAbomination that one]], [[BlueAndOrangeMorality the one that messes with humans]] [[ItAmusedMe because he's bored]]. It doesn't help that Lovecraft himself basically described him as being "[[TallDarkAndHandsome Slender, swarthy]][[EvilIsSexy , and sinister]]" in one story, or that he appears as a rather attractive-looking Pharaoh in ''Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath''.
8th Oct '16 3:55:01 PM MrThorfan64
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** Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish. Charming, handsome, witty, always cheerful and a ManipulativeBastard with ChronicBackstabbingDisorder to boot. His ultimate goals are rather unclear, as is just how much of the anarchy and war that dominates the books has been orchestrated by him, but he has taken credit for the majority of it and its implied to be little more than DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Whilst the character is definitely subject to AlternativeCharacterInterpretation and has many hidden depths to his personality, corners of the fandom treat him like a divine savior whose goals are all working to the benefit of the small folk, the people the wars have screwed over the most. Not to mention, they also "forget" how he [[ForcefulKiss forces unwanted kisses]] on [[spoiler: his teenage niece-by-marriage]] Sansa Stark, his disciple and possible candidate for Queen, how he personally murdered [[spoiler:his wife, Lysa Arryn]] and was responsible for the deaths of [[spoiler:Jon Arryn and Sansa's father Ned Stark]] and how he forced an 11-year-old girl [[spoiler:Sansa's friend, Jeyne Poole]] into prostitution, then sold Jeyne into marriage to a {{Sadist}}.

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** Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish. Charming, handsome, witty, always cheerful and a ManipulativeBastard with ChronicBackstabbingDisorder to boot. His ultimate goals are rather unclear, as is just how much of the anarchy and war that dominates the books has been orchestrated by him, but he has taken credit for the majority of it and its implied to be little more than DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Whilst the character is definitely subject to AlternativeCharacterInterpretation and has many hidden depths to his personality, corners of the fandom treat him like a divine savior saviour whose goals are all working to the benefit of the small folk, the people the wars have screwed over the most. most, partially because he is looked down on because of how minor a lord he is. Not to mention, they also "forget" how he [[ForcefulKiss forces unwanted kisses]] on [[spoiler: his teenage niece-by-marriage]] Sansa Stark, his disciple and possible candidate for Queen, how he personally murdered [[spoiler:his wife, Lysa Arryn]] Arryn (who had, admittedly, raped him when he was young,]] and was responsible for the deaths of [[spoiler:Jon Arryn and Sansa's father Ned Stark]] and how he forced an 11-year-old girl [[spoiler:Sansa's friend, Jeyne Poole]] into prostitution, then sold Jeyne into marriage to a {{Sadist}}.


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** There are people who believe [[TheSociopath Roose Bolton]] is a noble Lord who loves his family and is doing what is best for the North, [[spoiler:and that the Red Wedding was justified as it brought peace to the realm, with Roose ruling the North]]. However while Roose may say "A quiet land, a peaceful people", he clearly abuses his power, his philosophy more being do horrible things but keep up a good image, such as raping women on his lands. He even allows his bastard from one such incident, the monstrous [[BastardBastard Ramsay Snow/Bolton]], to go round terrorising the North, his objection to their actions not being because of the horrible stuff they do but that they're not hiding their atrocities like Roose is. Despite Ramsay quite probably poisoning [[CainAndAbel Roose' legitimate son]] Roose doesn't do anything about it due to the stigma about kinslaying... but seems ultimately to not care how Ramsay's evil will bring about the end of House Bolton. And the idea Roose was bailing on Robb's lost cause for the betterment of the realm? A lot of people have concluded from Roose' military decisions that he was [[spoiler:sabotaging Robb's campaign from the start and was thus responsible for Robb losing his chance to defeat the Lannisters]].
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