History DethroningMoment / StarTrek

10th Mar '16 4:51:16 PM brianify
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** {{Tropers/Brianify}}: Seconded, not least because the episode accidentally points out one of the dumber running themes in ''The Next Generation.'' Riker tries to guilt the Ferengi leader by saying that it was cruel to imprison the children on board the Enterprise. The Ferengi ripostes that it's cruel to bring children on an armed warship that regularly sees combat. The Ferengi is entirely right.
31st Dec '15 4:00:15 PM falcon2484
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** Tropers/{{Falcon2484}}: This one gets my vote as well, especially seeing as how Picard gives no similar reprimand to Riker after he arguably violates the Prime Directive in "The Outcast."
27th Dec '15 3:01:57 PM SeptimusHeap
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* 13thman: My pick for ST Voyager has to be "Flesh and Blood". This is actually a retroactive [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]], starting with "The Killing Game", but it culminates here. Plot summary: the Hirogen are being killed by holodeck technology that Janeway gave them at the end of "The Killing Game". Janeway decides to save the Hirogen from the homicidal holograms against the Hirogen's will. Now that that is out of the way, here's the DMOS: why? Just why? I don't need to go into any particular details about the morals, motivations, actions, or logic of anyone in particular in this episode. All you need to know, in order to understand why Janeway taking the Hirogen's side against ANYBODY (even arguably the ''Borg'') is just wrong, is this: the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy. The Hirogen's [[PlanetOfHats hat]] is using superior strength and firepower to hunt down any sentient creature, whether or not it is armed, whether or not it is a physical match for them, whether or not said creatures are surrendering, fleeing, trying to make peace with them, whatever. They strip their kills down to the bone and display various body parts around their ships as trophies. These aren't the Cardassians, or the Klingons, or the Romulans, or the Kazon or Jem Hadar, who kill for country, or honor, or for their master or state. Unlike the races just mentioned, there's no such thing as a target being unworthy for any reason (sick, old, not involved in a conflict, etc). The Hirogen kill because it gives them wood. Nowhere is this made more evident than in "The Killing Game", where the Hirogen turn all of Voyager into a holodeck, so they can ''repeatedly kill and resuscitate'' the members of the crew in various fantasies. Their evil is so ridiculous it causes a ''DarthWiki/WallBanger'': the Hirogen get pissed at the doctor because the holodeck weapons are killing the crew members faster than the doctor can resuscitate then, however they refuse to turn on the holodeck safeties, because holodeck safeties make the killing less interesting. Wait - if Holodeck weapons and soldiers are good enough to kill the crew, why waste time with the crew? Why not just turn all the safeties off on the holodeck and shoot at 100 foot lava monsters that bleed fire all day? Well, because like I said before, the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy - their goal isn't to satiate violent urges like a Klingon or Jem Hadar, their goal is to kill people. But, enough about TKG: when "Flesh and Blood" rolls around, the Hirogen have managed to program holograms smart enough to cruelly kill every Hirogen they come across. Given what was just described in TKG, the question we have to ask here is, once again, ''why?'' These serial killers made a weapon so powerful it kills them, and the first time Janeway offers to help, they threaten to turn her into prey, again? Why is there a plot about Janeway detailing the moral and philosophical reasons why Voyager has a duty to help the sadistic homicidal aliens that want nothing more than to kill them all and wear their bones for necklaces? ''[[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Picard]]'' wouldn't have put up with that shit, and he is infamous for being slower on the phaser button than Kirk or Sisko. That Janeway did ANYTHING other than leave these animals to die the KarmicDeath they deserved turns this into a [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]] for this troper.

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* 13thman: My pick for ST Voyager has to be "Flesh and Blood". This is actually a retroactive [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]], starting with "The Killing Game", but it culminates here. Plot summary: the Hirogen are being killed by holodeck technology that Janeway gave them at the end of "The Killing Game". Janeway decides to save the Hirogen from the homicidal holograms against the Hirogen's will. Now that that is out of the way, here's the DMOS: why? Just why? I don't need to go into any particular details about the morals, motivations, actions, or logic of anyone in particular in this episode. All you need to know, in order to understand why Janeway taking the Hirogen's side against ANYBODY (even arguably the ''Borg'') is just wrong, is this: the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy. The Hirogen's [[PlanetOfHats hat]] is using superior strength and firepower to hunt down any sentient creature, whether or not it is armed, whether or not it is a physical match for them, whether or not said creatures are surrendering, fleeing, trying to make peace with them, whatever. They strip their kills down to the bone and display various body parts around their ships as trophies. These aren't the Cardassians, or the Klingons, or the Romulans, or the Kazon or Jem Hadar, who kill for country, or honor, or for their master or state. Unlike the races just mentioned, there's no such thing as a target being unworthy for any reason (sick, old, not involved in a conflict, etc). The Hirogen kill because it gives them wood. Nowhere is this made more evident than in "The Killing Game", where the Hirogen turn all of Voyager into a holodeck, so they can ''repeatedly kill and resuscitate'' the members of the crew in various fantasies. Their evil is so ridiculous it causes a ''DarthWiki/WallBanger'': ridiculous: the Hirogen get pissed at the doctor because the holodeck weapons are killing the crew members faster than the doctor can resuscitate then, however they refuse to turn on the holodeck safeties, because holodeck safeties make the killing less interesting. Wait - if Holodeck weapons and soldiers are good enough to kill the crew, why waste time with the crew? Why not just turn all the safeties off on the holodeck and shoot at 100 foot lava monsters that bleed fire all day? Well, because like I said before, the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy - their goal isn't to satiate violent urges like a Klingon or Jem Hadar, their goal is to kill people. But, enough about TKG: when "Flesh and Blood" rolls around, the Hirogen have managed to program holograms smart enough to cruelly kill every Hirogen they come across. Given what was just described in TKG, the question we have to ask here is, once again, ''why?'' These serial killers made a weapon so powerful it kills them, and the first time Janeway offers to help, they threaten to turn her into prey, again? Why is there a plot about Janeway detailing the moral and philosophical reasons why Voyager has a duty to help the sadistic homicidal aliens that want nothing more than to kill them all and wear their bones for necklaces? ''[[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Picard]]'' wouldn't have put up with that shit, and he is infamous for being slower on the phaser button than Kirk or Sisko. That Janeway did ANYTHING other than leave these animals to die the KarmicDeath they deserved turns this into a [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]] for this troper.
18th Dec '15 9:11:56 PM nombretomado
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* Troper/Hyrin: ''Unimatrix Zero''. The episode where Janeway gets assimilated ''on purpose'' and the Borg Queen completely loses her shit and starts self-destructing her fleet on a whim. SFDebris's synopsis about this episode is the stuff of legends.

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* Troper/Hyrin: ''Unimatrix Zero''. The episode where Janeway gets assimilated ''on purpose'' and the Borg Queen completely loses her shit and starts self-destructing her fleet on a whim. SFDebris's WebSite/SFDebris' synopsis about this episode is the stuff of legends.



* Tropers/RomanatorX: "A Night in Sickbay" is all around complete crap, with rampant JerkAss behavior on Archer's part for no reason, completely messed up morals (why bring a dog on a foreign planet, just to start), and a RomanticPlotTumor between Archer and T'Pol. However, you can actually pinpoint the moment where the franchise crashed into the iceberg. It's as T'Poi is delivering some food to Archer during his night in sickbay. After acting nasty to her, he says this immortal line. "Sorry, I'm a little on edge. I haven't slept very much, but I'm doing the breast I... the best I can." They made a joke about breasts. On the same franchise that's supposed to explain the meeting of humans with other species... and they made a statement about breasts for comedy. At this point, they must have run out of ideas for intellectual comedy and just decided to make a joke about freaking breasts! To seal this as a DMOS, SFDebris called this the moment where the franchise bottomed out, and Website/TheAgonyBooth called it the exact moment where the series pretty much died.

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* Tropers/RomanatorX: "A Night in Sickbay" is all around complete crap, with rampant JerkAss behavior on Archer's part for no reason, completely messed up morals (why bring a dog on a foreign planet, just to start), and a RomanticPlotTumor between Archer and T'Pol. However, you can actually pinpoint the moment where the franchise crashed into the iceberg. It's as T'Poi is delivering some food to Archer during his night in sickbay. After acting nasty to her, he says this immortal line. "Sorry, I'm a little on edge. I haven't slept very much, but I'm doing the breast I... the best I can." They made a joke about breasts. On the same franchise that's supposed to explain the meeting of humans with other species... and they made a statement about breasts for comedy. At this point, they must have run out of ideas for intellectual comedy and just decided to make a joke about freaking breasts! To seal this as a DMOS, SFDebris WebSite/SFDebris called this the moment where the franchise bottomed out, and Website/TheAgonyBooth called it the exact moment where the series pretty much died.
30th Nov '15 11:09:29 AM FF32
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* 13thman: My pick for ST Voyager has to be "Flesh and Blood". This is actually a retroactive [[DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]], starting with "The Killing Game", but it culminates here. Plot summary: the Hirogen are being killed by holodeck technology that Janeway gave them at the end of "The Killing Game". Janeway decides to save the Hirogen from the homicidal holograms against the Hirogen's will. Now that that is out of the way, here's the DMOS: why? Just why? I don't need to go into any particular details about the morals, motivations, actions, or logic of anyone in particular in this episode. All you need to know, in order to understand why Janeway taking the Hirogen's side against ANYBODY (even arguably the ''Borg'') is just wrong, is this: the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy. The Hirogen's [[PlanetOfHats hat]] is using superior strength and firepower to hunt down any sentient creature, whether or not it is armed, whether or not it is a physical match for them, whether or not said creatures are surrendering, fleeing, trying to make peace with them, whatever. They strip their kills down to the bone and display various body parts around their ships as trophies. These aren't the Cardassians, or the Klingons, or the Romulans, or the Kazon or Jem Hadar, who kill for country, or honor, or for their master or state. Unlike the races just mentioned, there's no such thing as a target being unworthy for any reason (sick, old, not involved in a conflict, etc). The Hirogen kill because it gives them wood. Nowhere is this made more evident than in "The Killing Game", where the Hirogen turn all of Voyager into a holodeck, so they can ''repeatedly kill and resuscitate'' the members of the crew in various fantasies. Their evil is so ridiculous it causes a ''DarthWiki/WallBanger'': the Hirogen get pissed at the doctor because the holodeck weapons are killing the crew members faster than the doctor can resuscitate then, however they refuse to turn on the holodeck safeties, because holodeck safeties make the killing less interesting. Wait - if Holodeck weapons and soldiers are good enough to kill the crew, why waste time with the crew? Why not just turn all the safeties off on the holodeck and shoot at 100 foot lava monsters that bleed fire all day? Well, because like I said before, the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy - their goal isn't to satiate violent urges like a Klingon or Jem Hadar, their goal is to kill people. But, enough about TKG: when "Flesh and Blood" rolls around, the Hirogen have managed to program holograms smart enough to cruelly kill every Hirogen they come across. Given what was just described in TKG, the question we have to ask here is, once again, ''why?'' These serial killers made a weapon so powerful it kills them, and the first time Janeway offers to help, they threaten to turn her into prey, again? Why is there a plot about Janeway detailing the moral and philosophical reasons why Voyager has a duty to help the sadistic homicidal aliens that want nothing more than to kill them all and wear their bones for necklaces? ''[[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Picard]]'' wouldn't have put up with that shit, and he is infamous for being slower on the phaser button than Kirk or Sisko. That Janeway did ANYTHING other than leave these animals to die the KarmicDeath they deserved turns this into a [[DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]] for this troper.

to:

* 13thman: My pick for ST Voyager has to be "Flesh and Blood". This is actually a retroactive [[DethroningMomentOfSuck [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]], starting with "The Killing Game", but it culminates here. Plot summary: the Hirogen are being killed by holodeck technology that Janeway gave them at the end of "The Killing Game". Janeway decides to save the Hirogen from the homicidal holograms against the Hirogen's will. Now that that is out of the way, here's the DMOS: why? Just why? I don't need to go into any particular details about the morals, motivations, actions, or logic of anyone in particular in this episode. All you need to know, in order to understand why Janeway taking the Hirogen's side against ANYBODY (even arguably the ''Borg'') is just wrong, is this: the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy. The Hirogen's [[PlanetOfHats hat]] is using superior strength and firepower to hunt down any sentient creature, whether or not it is armed, whether or not it is a physical match for them, whether or not said creatures are surrendering, fleeing, trying to make peace with them, whatever. They strip their kills down to the bone and display various body parts around their ships as trophies. These aren't the Cardassians, or the Klingons, or the Romulans, or the Kazon or Jem Hadar, who kill for country, or honor, or for their master or state. Unlike the races just mentioned, there's no such thing as a target being unworthy for any reason (sick, old, not involved in a conflict, etc). The Hirogen kill because it gives them wood. Nowhere is this made more evident than in "The Killing Game", where the Hirogen turn all of Voyager into a holodeck, so they can ''repeatedly kill and resuscitate'' the members of the crew in various fantasies. Their evil is so ridiculous it causes a ''DarthWiki/WallBanger'': the Hirogen get pissed at the doctor because the holodeck weapons are killing the crew members faster than the doctor can resuscitate then, however they refuse to turn on the holodeck safeties, because holodeck safeties make the killing less interesting. Wait - if Holodeck weapons and soldiers are good enough to kill the crew, why waste time with the crew? Why not just turn all the safeties off on the holodeck and shoot at 100 foot lava monsters that bleed fire all day? Well, because like I said before, the Hirogen are the serial killers of the galaxy - their goal isn't to satiate violent urges like a Klingon or Jem Hadar, their goal is to kill people. But, enough about TKG: when "Flesh and Blood" rolls around, the Hirogen have managed to program holograms smart enough to cruelly kill every Hirogen they come across. Given what was just described in TKG, the question we have to ask here is, once again, ''why?'' These serial killers made a weapon so powerful it kills them, and the first time Janeway offers to help, they threaten to turn her into prey, again? Why is there a plot about Janeway detailing the moral and philosophical reasons why Voyager has a duty to help the sadistic homicidal aliens that want nothing more than to kill them all and wear their bones for necklaces? ''[[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Picard]]'' wouldn't have put up with that shit, and he is infamous for being slower on the phaser button than Kirk or Sisko. That Janeway did ANYTHING other than leave these animals to die the KarmicDeath they deserved turns this into a [[DethroningMomentOfSuck [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck DMOS]] for this troper.
7th Oct '15 6:26:21 PM NineTailedCat
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* Tropers/NineTailedCat: Tasha Yar's death in ''Skin of Evil''. As if killing off an awesome character wasn't bad enough, they had to do it in such a cheap and stupid way. She just gets slapped with an energy blast and then she's dead, without any warning or dignity. Sure, they had to write her out somehow with Denise Crosby leaving, but couldn't they have reassigned her instead, or at least killed her in a more dignified way? Heck, having her get sucked into Armus (like Riker, but without surviving it) would have been more satisfying. An otherwise promising episode was ruined by a good character dying senselessly. Such a waste.
28th Aug '15 2:14:16 PM Bronnt
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** {{Tropers/Bronnt}}: What makes this a DMOS for me is it's relation to the series. Too often Voyager ends with a literal reset button so the characters stay bland without real character development. The characters on the fake!Voyager experience a lot more character development than their real counterparts ever do. Fake!Harry was more interesting in this episode than the real Harry Kim 99% of the time. The lack of consequence was a frustrating theme of the show, and this episode got to tease character development while once again being consequence-free for the real Voyager.
30th Jul '15 11:27:05 AM nebagram
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* Tropers/Nebagram: ''Rascals''. Dear god, Rascals. We start with an utterly idiotic plot: the transporter accidentally turns some of the crew into children. Whilst not a bad idea for a show in itself, the away it's executed is utter laziness (transport accident? Again!?) and the show seems happy to gloss over the fact that what they've accidentally stumbled across is nothing less than the secret to immortality itself. At no point during the show was it stated that there were any negative aspects to the transformation other than having to go through adolescence again- after which they'd presumably be healthy twentysomethings. Sure, Picard may have lost his commanding presence, but he's gained a full sixty years extra life. Guinan- one of the other kids transformed- have gained over half a millennium of extra life. This in itself would be forgivable, but then the show goes straight over a cliff by having the Enterprise attacked... By Ferengi. In clapped-out birds of prey, which capture the Enterprise in seconds and force the entire adult crew- all 900+ of them- into slavery. Never mind the fact that we never see more than a dozen Ferengi at any point, never mind the fact that Riker should have obliterated the enemy ships the second they decloaked, never mind the fact that even with Worf incapacitated (again) the Enterprise has dozens of highly-trained security officers who you'd have thought would be able to tear the Ferengi a new one, apparently two Ferengi holding Riker and Data at gunpoint causes the entire ship to fall down in a second and have to be saved by the children... The same way everyone hated Wesley doing in season 1 and 2. This episode is every negative aspect of TNG in one 44-minute long 'example'.

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* Tropers/Nebagram: {{Tropers/Nebagram}}: ''Rascals''. Dear god, Rascals. We start with an utterly idiotic plot: the transporter accidentally turns some of the crew into children. Whilst not a bad idea for a show in itself, the away it's executed is utter laziness (transport accident? Again!?) and the show seems happy to gloss over the fact that what they've accidentally stumbled across is nothing less than the secret to immortality itself. At no point during the show was it stated that there were any negative aspects to the transformation other than having to go through adolescence again- after which they'd presumably be healthy twentysomethings. Sure, Picard may have lost his commanding presence, but he's gained a full sixty years extra life. Guinan- one of the other kids transformed- have gained over half a millennium of extra life. This in itself would be forgivable, but then the show goes straight over a cliff by having the Enterprise attacked... By Ferengi. In clapped-out birds of prey, which capture the Enterprise in seconds and force the entire adult crew- all 900+ of them- into slavery. Never mind the fact that we never see more than a dozen Ferengi at any point, never mind the fact that Riker should have obliterated the enemy ships the second they decloaked, never mind the fact that even with Worf incapacitated (again) the Enterprise has dozens of highly-trained security officers who you'd have thought would be able to tear the Ferengi a new one, apparently two Ferengi holding Riker and Data at gunpoint causes the entire ship to fall down in a second and have to be saved by the children... The same way everyone hated Wesley doing in season 1 and 2. This episode is every negative aspect of TNG in one 44-minute long 'example'.
30th Jul '15 11:26:27 AM nebagram
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to:

* Tropers/Nebagram: ''Rascals''. Dear god, Rascals. We start with an utterly idiotic plot: the transporter accidentally turns some of the crew into children. Whilst not a bad idea for a show in itself, the away it's executed is utter laziness (transport accident? Again!?) and the show seems happy to gloss over the fact that what they've accidentally stumbled across is nothing less than the secret to immortality itself. At no point during the show was it stated that there were any negative aspects to the transformation other than having to go through adolescence again- after which they'd presumably be healthy twentysomethings. Sure, Picard may have lost his commanding presence, but he's gained a full sixty years extra life. Guinan- one of the other kids transformed- have gained over half a millennium of extra life. This in itself would be forgivable, but then the show goes straight over a cliff by having the Enterprise attacked... By Ferengi. In clapped-out birds of prey, which capture the Enterprise in seconds and force the entire adult crew- all 900+ of them- into slavery. Never mind the fact that we never see more than a dozen Ferengi at any point, never mind the fact that Riker should have obliterated the enemy ships the second they decloaked, never mind the fact that even with Worf incapacitated (again) the Enterprise has dozens of highly-trained security officers who you'd have thought would be able to tear the Ferengi a new one, apparently two Ferengi holding Riker and Data at gunpoint causes the entire ship to fall down in a second and have to be saved by the children... The same way everyone hated Wesley doing in season 1 and 2. This episode is every negative aspect of TNG in one 44-minute long 'example'.
4th Jul '15 1:10:06 PM OlfinBedwere
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* Tropers/OlfinBedwere: Data's death in ''Film/StarTrekNemesis'' somehow manages to make Kirk [[DroppedABridgeOnHim getting a bridge dropped on him]] seem like a masterpiece of good film-making. Even leaving aside the stupidity of how the situation came around to begin with, the way it's filmed makes it feel like it's just some random redshirt who's dying, not a character we've known and loved for fifteen years. Making things even worse, only twenty seconds after Data's demise the film-makers feel the need to put in a gag about Picard forgetting the bridge viewscreen had been destroyed, which is pretty much the equivalent to Spock's death scene in the second film having a grinning McCoy lean into the frame after Spock expires, saying "He's dead, Jim!" and then winking at the camera.

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* Tropers/OlfinBedwere: Data's death in ''Film/StarTrekNemesis'' somehow manages to make Kirk [[DroppedABridgeOnHim getting a bridge dropped on him]] seem like a masterpiece of good film-making. Even leaving aside the stupidity of how the situation came around to begin with, the way it's filmed makes it feel like it's just some random redshirt who's dying, not a character we've known and loved for fifteen years. Making things even worse, only twenty seconds after Data's demise the film-makers feel the need to put in a gag about Picard forgetting the bridge viewscreen had been destroyed, which is pretty much the equivalent to Spock's death scene in the second film having a grinning McCoy [=McCoy=] lean into the frame after Spock expires, saying "He's dead, Jim!" and then winking at the camera.
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