History DethroningMoment / SouthPark

5th Jun '17 12:59:55 PM fairygirl567
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** Tropers/fairygirl567: Oh, thank heavens I thought I was the only one who disliked the goth kids. For a show that makes fun of everyone and is good at doing it, the goth kids are the only people who they make fun and it's not funny! They are so one note to the point where I feel insulted and not just because I'm into goth culture, but because that's the whole joke for these characters. We get it, some goths can be hypocritical and moody, but they could've done more with this. Heck, Kyle and his cousin Kyle are great examples of this! As well as Token. I think Matt and Trey have gotten the hint though since the goth kids haven't made a major appreance in a while.
5th Jun '17 12:52:24 PM fairygirl567
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** Tropers/{{fairygirl567}}: It was very obvious that they wanted or planned for Hilary to win as it was reported they had already written episodes involving her winning the election, it was never stated if they fully supported Hilary, but they didn't like Trump. The moment that went south and Trump surprisingly won, they had to do a bunch of rewrites to go with Trump winning and it was obvious... like a teenager rewriting a paper a day before it's due obvious. They also apparently really hate Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Now, this troper gets not everyone loves the Force Awakens, but Matt and Trey went out their way to apparently blame the director for Trump winning and why he had so many supporters... it made no sense at all. They just kept bashing it to the point where I yelled, "Okay we get it, you didn't think it was the best movie! It's not the reason Trump won though!" I'm surprised the director of the movie didn't call them out on this. They eventually stopped doing the "joke", but it was too late by then. I haven't watched any Star Wars movies and I was insulted and the member berries causing mind control came and went nowhere! We see the Marsh family, Mr. Garrison, and Katalin Jenner being affected just for it never be addressed again because they went back to focusing on the trolling incident... which was a way better arc.
3rd Jun '17 12:51:08 PM Gene0129
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* gene0129: [[HateSink Skankhunt42]] [[spoiler: [[KarmaHoudini Not paying for his crimes.]] Yes, Bedrager ended up being the greater of two evils, but it was still total bullshit how they expected us to forget that he was the reason for dooming all of the world, for his selfish fun.]] What a miserable way to end the otherwise decent season 20.

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* gene0129: [[HateSink Skankhunt42]] [[spoiler: [[KarmaHoudini Not paying for his crimes.]] Yes, Bedrager ended up being the greater of two evils, but it was still total bullshit how they expected us to forget that he was the reason for dooming all of the world, for his selfish fun.]] What a miserable way to end the otherwise decent end, season 20.20 which looked as if it could be redeemed.
26th May '17 10:05:09 AM mlsmithca
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* Tropers/Metalheadfan2500 The episode "Go Fund Yourself" really bugged me, aside from not getting a strong laugh out of me, this episode is just ignorant. Matt and Trey bash on Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general, by commenting on the several people that abuse it for free money with weak ideas, sure that's ok for a cheap laugh, but what really annoyed me is that there is no mention of any positive contributions that crowdfunding has done. Aside from perhaps one poster mentioning a film festival, they failed to comment on all the cool indie games, animation, comics, short films, or whatever, which to me tells me such an ignorant viewpoint that I feel this hurts the perspective on crowdfunding for the several people that don't know that much and will just be misinformed. To me this makes Matt Stone and Trey Parker seem extremely ignorant as award winning millionaires that can pretty much do whatever creative product they want, but fuck anyone else who ask for a donation. I leave this vid on crowdfunding from the wonderful people of Extra Credit on the South Park Studios message board on the episode, just to inform what Crowdfunding really is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ljzAi5DuA

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* Tropers/Metalheadfan2500 The episode "Go Fund Yourself" really bugged me, aside from not getting a strong laugh out of me, this episode is just ignorant. Matt and Trey bash on Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general, by commenting on the several people that abuse it for free money with weak ideas, sure that's ok for a cheap laugh, but what really annoyed me is that there is no mention of any positive contributions that crowdfunding has done. Aside from perhaps one poster mentioning a film festival, they failed to comment on all the cool indie games, animation, comics, short films, or whatever, which to me tells me such an ignorant viewpoint that I feel this hurts the perspective on crowdfunding for the several people that don't know that much and will just be misinformed. To me this makes Matt Stone and Trey Parker seem extremely ignorant as award winning millionaires that can pretty much do whatever creative product they want, but fuck anyone else who ask for a donation. I leave this vid on crowdfunding from the wonderful people of Extra Credit on the South Park Studios message board on the episode, just to inform what Crowdfunding really is https://www.[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ljzAi5DuAcom/watch?v=l0ljzAi5DuA this vid on crowdfunding]] from the wonderful people of Extra Credit on the South Park Studios message board on the episode, just to inform what Crowdfunding really is.
20th May '17 4:17:28 PM nombretomado
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** Tropers/{{ElegantVamp}}: Thirded on "Ginger Cow". And, Kyle being my favorite character just made this episode worse. It wasn't funny, it was mean-spirited for no reason, the fart "gags" got old really fast. I was waiting for Cartman to get some sort of karma for what he did, but, nope! All of this Cartman vs. Kyle nonsense is getting overdrawn. I don't understand why the writers just all of a sudden decide to treat Kyle as the show's ButtMonkey. Wasn't Butters supposed to fill that role? And even IF Butters was in Kyle's place, it still wouldn't have been funny. The only part of the episode I found entertaining and laughed out loud at is when all the religious symbols combined as {{Van Halen}}. I hated Cartman after he got away with what went down in the Scott Tenorman episode, but this is a new low. It really solidified my hatred for "KarmaHoudini-Cartman", and makes me hope that someone will beat his ass into the ground, again, like Wendy in "Breast Cancer Show Ever".

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** Tropers/{{ElegantVamp}}: Thirded on "Ginger Cow". And, Kyle being my favorite character just made this episode worse. It wasn't funny, it was mean-spirited for no reason, the fart "gags" got old really fast. I was waiting for Cartman to get some sort of karma for what he did, but, nope! All of this Cartman vs. Kyle nonsense is getting overdrawn. I don't understand why the writers just all of a sudden decide to treat Kyle as the show's ButtMonkey. Wasn't Butters supposed to fill that role? And even IF Butters was in Kyle's place, it still wouldn't have been funny. The only part of the episode I found entertaining and laughed out loud at is when all the religious symbols combined as {{Van Music/{{Van Halen}}. I hated Cartman after he got away with what went down in the Scott Tenorman episode, but this is a new low. It really solidified my hatred for "KarmaHoudini-Cartman", and makes me hope that someone will beat his ass into the ground, again, like Wendy in "Breast Cancer Show Ever".
7th May '17 2:00:09 PM Clown-Face
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* Tropers/{{Clown-Face}}: It's hard to single out any episode of Season 20 due to its continuous storyline, but I'll have to settle with "Oh, Jeez", simply on the basis that it was the episode where the season started to go downhill. Parker and Stone shouldn't have bet the entire season's storyline on the outcome of the presidential elections, and it caused the second half of the season to come out cluttered and confused. Aside from that, the plot point of the Marsh family being infected by member berries went nowhere, and the characters constantly expressing their shock on the outcome of the election came off as a not-so-subtle way of the writers themselves voicing their opinions on the matter, and didn't even make much sense, since a major plot-point of the season was that Mr. Garrison had been leading in the polls. Overall, this one episode significantly altered the season from "decent" to "bad".
27th Apr '17 9:12:07 PM ScorpionTalent
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* [=WoodyAlien3rd=]: It's hard to pick an episode from Season 20, so I'll say the season as a whole. ''South Park'' already remade episodes right before airing, and it worked, but here they tried to rework the entire storyline on the fly because they didn't think Trump could win the elections, and it showed. Parker's obsession with satirizing current events while they happen and the big number of plotlines (no less than three just in the first episode, with more appearing later) generated a poorly-written, bloated storyline that left a lot of hanging threads and was concluded with a blatant deus ex machina. Lots of characters appeared to do a whole lot of nothing (JJ Abrams, the Clintons, Bill Cosby, Caitlin Jenner, Elon Musk... heck even Kyle's mom seemed about to unleash her fury like in TheMovie and then, surprise, did nothing), the BigBad was just some random guy unrelated to anybody and the Member Berries, a clever and hilarious metaphor for the dangers of nostalgia, similarly just disappeared halfway through the season, their purpose or existence never explained. Some characters had a different personality (mellow Cartman, jerkass Butters, dickish troll Gerald) just for the sake of adding even more plotlines, like the war between boys and girls at SP Elementary, that never receiving a satisfying payoff. Not only this season showed that they aren't the master satirists many seem to see as, but also that their approach of always taking a middle ground is getting old: the major theme of the season, trolling, is treated very ambiguously and it's never clear what their stance is, if any. And, once again, [=DildoShwaggins=] and the other trolls get sidelined after a while, literally stuck in a cell doing nothing. Finally, acknowledging the season's problems with the usual Kyle patronising speech and literally naming one episode "Not Funny" is not clever, just infuriating.
** Scsigs: I agree Season 20, on the whole, is the worst season of the show for several reasons. They're all caused by the fact that they made the season serialized. Now, serialization can be good for some shows. A ton of anime shows do this, Tokusatsu shows sometimes do this, & even Western shows, like ''Doctor Who'', ''Avatar: The Last Airbender'', etc have done this, or do that for their entire runs. They did a bit of serialization in the two seasons prior and did similar things many seasons prior. The problem with doing this, however, is that ''South Park'' is a show where the production style allows the creators to, literally, write, record, animate, & put together the episodes within the week that they air. They've honed this really well over the years & only missed a deadline ''once'' in the show's existence after they started doing it in Season 4. Pretty impressive, plus most of the episodes come out pretty well considering the quick production time, but the rushedness & spontaneity of that has allowed for all of the show's greatest moments since Season 4 when they started it. However, this only works best either when the episodes are standalone, aren't directly parodying such large events, have subtle references to each other, or have an idea that works no matter what. It was clear that they were expecting Hilary to win the election from the off. Everyone was...well, except the most hardened of Trump's supporters. There's a myriad of reasons why that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that they clearly didn't expect him to win at all. They even went with the theory that Trump was trying to make himself lose because of some of the batshit stuff that was going on around him at the time; a theory that one of my college professors talked about months prior to the election. Thus, when they aired the episodes after the election, things just didn't get proper closure; the Member Berries, the "Girls VS Boys" Feminism lampooning stuff, etc. This is definitely the biggest learning experience Stone & Parker will have to reflect upon in the future if they ever wanna attempt this kind of thing again. Now, other than the outcomes, let me briefly talk about the setups. The series attempted to juggle many different hot-button issues at once slowly over the season. The "Girls VS Boys" stuff was meant to parody third wave Social Justice Feminism that's been rampant in social media for the last several years at this point. They also wanted to point out that women ''can'' be funny, it's just that the ways many of them go about it, people like Amy Schumer in particular, aren't the best ways because many of their "jokes" revolve around a few topics & aren't told well most of the time. That's immediately dropped because the lesson they wanted to convey was now moot & wouldn't make much sense in the new context. They wanted to say, while having nostalgia for something is fine, you shouldn't let companies keep marketing based on nostalgia, movie companies mostly, and we should be trying to move forwards rather than backwards. They're dropped entirely for the same reason as the other stuff. What's funny though, is that they've portrayed that kind of thing before, and better, so it's nothing entirely new for them. Then Trump. As Garrison stood in for him in the ''South Park'' universe, they tried to have Hilary come off as slightly better. This was a great angle to take this. No one was going to come out of that election unscathed and Trump was dubbed "the joke that went too far" by many both during & after the election, so this made perfect sense. Obviously, they were expecting Hilary to win, but despite all logic, reasoning, & expectations, Trump won. This threw what I suspect was the planned ultimate message of the season into chaos because it no longer made sense, forcing a retool over halfway through. What I suspect was the ultimate plan for the season, given the setup for the payoff, was that Hilary getting elected was supposed to be a sign that the world was ready for a maturity to take place, that even though there will be reboots, sequels, & stupidity in the world, people will come together to not let it run their lives. Unfortunately, the whole thing got flushed down the tubes when Trump got elected, forcing them to make Garrison president instead. thus, a lot of subplots were dropped. The only thing that got a payoff was the Dutch hacking thing, which, by the way, would be a ''huge'' scandal in real life, but that's because the Russian hacking controversy, which is what it's referencing, is. Everyone of these things just kinda failed in what they were set out to do in one way or another. Oh and also a subplot with Gerald that doesn't make sense for him that, I think, is referencing the Twitter controversy around Milo Yiannopoulos. My ultimate problem lies in how some of these don't make any sense. As I put in the YMMV section of the show's page on this site, they tried to connect Trump getting elected with people who like their nostalgia and supported ''Star Wars Episode VII'' by going to see it and that they're terrible people [[DisproportionateRetribution just because they wanna enjoy something that continues the legacy of something from the past]]. Oh, and they're automatically Trump supporters! That drove me off a cliff when I put those together. I have my nostalgia for media I've consumed when I was younger & I enjoyed ''Episode VII'', yet I'm ''no'' Trump supporter, believe me. Hey, Matt & Trey, if you wanna make a point about a particular political figure, don't put people who haven't done anything related to liking him in with his/her supporters please! How do you badly screw up something like that? You wanna say nothing's original anymore & you want Hollywood to start green lighting more new projects? Fine. You wanna say nostalgia's blinding people from enjoying what's new? Fine. You wanna say Trump's a bad candidate who's more likely than not going to bring more regressions than progressions? Fine, but don't lump people who have little to nothing in common just because it seems it'll help your message, together, at least not the entire time. That's why I say out of everything bad from this season, the first bunch of episodes that establish those 3 things are bad because of the message they send. I still like this show, and I can admit I hate "Stanley's Cup" more as a single episode, but it's these episodes put together that really made me hate this season. Even if Hilary got elected & they were able to carry out all of their subplots, I don't think I'd like those either in that reality. Sorry if this is a bit long, but it had to be to send my disgust through all the way.

to:

* [=WoodyAlien3rd=]: It's hard to pick an episode from Season 20, so I'll say the season as a whole. ''South Park'' already remade episodes right before airing, and it worked, but here they tried to rework the entire storyline on the fly because they didn't think Trump could win the elections, and it showed. Parker's obsession with satirizing current events while they happen and the big number of plotlines (no less than three just in the first episode, with more appearing later) generated a poorly-written, bloated storyline that left a lot of hanging threads and was concluded with a blatant deus ex machina. Lots of characters appeared to do a whole lot of nothing (JJ Abrams, the Clintons, Bill Cosby, Caitlin Jenner, Elon Musk... heck even Kyle's mom seemed about to unleash her fury like in TheMovie and then, surprise, did nothing), the BigBad was just some random guy unrelated to anybody and the Member Berries, a clever and hilarious metaphor for the dangers of nostalgia, similarly just disappeared halfway through the season, their purpose or existence never explained. Some characters had a different personality (mellow Cartman, jerkass Butters, dickish troll Gerald) just for the sake of adding even more plotlines, like the war between boys and girls at SP Elementary, that never receiving a satisfying payoff. Not only this season showed that they aren't the master satirists many seem to see as, but also that their approach of always taking a middle ground is getting old: the major theme of the season, trolling, is treated very ambiguously and it's never clear what their stance is, if any. And, once again, [=DildoShwaggins=] and the other trolls get sidelined after a while, literally stuck in a cell doing nothing. Finally, acknowledging the season's problems with the usual Kyle patronising speech and literally naming one episode "Not Funny" is not clever, just infuriating.
** Scsigs: I agree Season 20, on the whole, is the worst season of the show for several reasons. They're all caused by the fact that they made the season serialized. Now, serialization can be good for some shows. A ton of anime shows do this, Tokusatsu shows sometimes do this, & even Western shows, like ''Doctor Who'', ''Avatar: The Last Airbender'', etc have done this, or do that for their entire runs. They did a bit of serialization in the two seasons prior and did similar things many seasons prior. The problem with doing this, however, is that ''South Park'' is a show where the production style allows the creators to, literally, write, record, animate, & put together the episodes within the week that they air. They've honed this really well over the years & only missed a deadline ''once'' in the show's existence after they started doing it in Season 4. Pretty impressive, plus most of the episodes come out pretty well considering the quick production time, but the rushedness & spontaneity of that has allowed for all of the show's greatest moments since Season 4 when they started it. However, this only works best either when the episodes are standalone, aren't directly parodying such large events, have subtle references to each other, or have an idea that works no matter what. It was clear that they were expecting Hilary to win the election from the off. Everyone was...well, except the most hardened of Trump's supporters. There's a myriad of reasons why that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that they clearly didn't expect him to win at all. They even went with the theory that Trump was trying to make himself lose because of some of the batshit stuff that was going on around him at the time; a theory that one of my college professors talked about months prior to the election. Thus, when they aired the episodes after the election, things just didn't get proper closure; the Member Berries, the "Girls VS Boys" Feminism lampooning stuff, etc. This is definitely the biggest learning experience Stone & Parker will have to reflect upon in the future if they ever wanna attempt this kind of thing again. Now, other than the outcomes, let me briefly talk about the setups. The series attempted to juggle many different hot-button issues at once slowly over the season. The "Girls VS Boys" stuff was meant to parody third wave Social Justice Feminism that's been rampant in social media for the last several years at this point. They also wanted to point out that women ''can'' be funny, it's just that the ways many of them go about it, people like Amy Schumer in particular, aren't the best ways because many of their "jokes" revolve around a few topics & aren't told well most of the time. That's immediately dropped because the lesson they wanted to convey was now moot & wouldn't make much sense in the new context. They wanted to say, while having nostalgia for something is fine, you shouldn't let companies keep marketing based on nostalgia, movie companies mostly, and we should be trying to move forwards rather than backwards. They're dropped entirely for the same reason as the other stuff. What's funny though, is that they've portrayed that kind of thing before, and better, so it's nothing entirely new for them. Then Trump. As Garrison stood in for him in the ''South Park'' universe, they tried to have Hilary come off as slightly better. This was a great angle to take this. No one was going to come out of that election unscathed and Trump was dubbed "the joke that went too far" by many both during & after the election, so this made perfect sense. Obviously, they were expecting Hilary to win, but despite all logic, reasoning, & expectations, Trump won. This threw what I suspect was the planned ultimate message of the season into chaos because it no longer made sense, forcing a retool over halfway through. What I suspect was the ultimate plan for the season, given the setup for the payoff, was that Hilary getting elected was supposed to be a sign that the world was ready for a maturity to take place, that even though there will be reboots, sequels, & stupidity in the world, people will come together to not let it run their lives. Unfortunately, the whole thing got flushed down the tubes when Trump got elected, forcing them to make Garrison president instead. thus, a lot of subplots were dropped. The only thing that got a payoff was the Dutch hacking thing, which, by the way, would be a ''huge'' scandal in real life, but that's because the Russian hacking controversy, which is what it's referencing, is. Everyone of these things just kinda failed in what they were set out to do in one way or another. Oh and also a subplot with Gerald that doesn't make sense for him that, I think, is referencing the Twitter controversy around Milo Yiannopoulos. My ultimate problem lies in how some of these don't make any sense. As I put in the YMMV section of the show's page on this site, they tried to connect Trump getting elected with people who like their nostalgia and supported ''Star Wars Episode VII'' by going to see it and that they're terrible people [[DisproportionateRetribution just because they wanna enjoy something that continues the legacy of something from the past]]. Oh, and they're automatically Trump supporters! That drove me off a cliff when I put those together. I have my nostalgia for media I've consumed when I was younger & I enjoyed ''Episode VII'', yet I'm ''no'' Trump supporter, believe me. Hey, Matt & Trey, if you wanna make a point about a particular political figure, don't put people who haven't done anything related to liking him in with his/her supporters please! How do you badly screw up something like that? You wanna say nothing's original anymore & you want Hollywood to start green lighting more new projects? Fine. You wanna say nostalgia's blinding people from enjoying what's new? Fine. You wanna say Trump's a bad candidate who's more likely than not going to bring more regressions than progressions? Fine, but don't lump people who have little to nothing in common just because it seems it'll help your message, together, at least not the entire time. That's why I say out of everything bad from this season, the first bunch of episodes that establish those 3 things are bad because of the message they send. I still like this show, and I can admit I hate "Stanley's Cup" more as a single episode, but it's these episodes put together that really made me hate this season. Even if Hilary got elected & they were able to carry out all of their subplots, I don't think I'd like those either in that reality. Sorry if this is a bit long, but it had to be to send my disgust through all the way.
10th Apr '17 12:06:32 AM Scsigs
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*** Tropers/{{{JRA}}} Agreed +1. One of the things that made Cartman a good character is yes he was a racist asshole, but he was at least likeable and relatable. And I so wanted him to get revenge against Scott. But that moment was a complete jumping of the shark and Cartman has just become unbearable to watch on screen. Maybe it was the fact that I first saw this episode with my Dad, who wasn't exactly a fan of the show. I didn't exactly blame him for his reaction to the episode's ending.

to:

*** Tropers/{{{JRA}}} Agreed +1. One of the things that made Cartman a good character is yes he was a racist asshole, but he was at least likeable likable and relatable. And I so wanted him to get revenge against Scott. But that moment was a complete jumping of the shark and Cartman has just become unbearable to watch on screen. Maybe it was the fact that I first saw this episode with my Dad, who wasn't exactly a fan of the show. I didn't exactly blame him for his reaction to the episode's ending.



** Tropers/RainingMetal: Not to mention the aesop of the episode was already done in the far more entertaining and effective "My Future Self 'n Me", which is to derail scare advertising. Maybe Parker and Stone have a hate-boner on Rob Reiner. Sadly, this was one of the first South Park episodes I watched front to back, and it turned me off the show until I knew that there were less shitty episodes in the series.

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** Tropers/RainingMetal: Not to mention the aesop Aesop of the episode was already done in the far more entertaining and effective "My Future Self 'n Me", which is to derail scare advertising. Maybe Parker and Stone have a hate-boner on Rob Reiner. Sadly, this was one of the first South Park episodes I watched front to back, and it turned me off the show until I knew that there were less shitty episodes in the series.



** Tropers/KentAllard: Mine as well. South Park thrives on CrossingTheLineTwice, but even that cannot justify trying to present an innocent and sweet-natured child being traumatized physically to borderline TorturePorn levels and humiliated by our main characters (which includes Stan and Kyle who are [[InformedAttribute suppposed to be]] [[WhatTheHellHero the heroic ones]] for crying out loud) as something [[DudeNotFunny to laugh at]]. To date this is the only episode I always skip because seriously, fuck you guys.

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** Tropers/KentAllard: Mine as well. South Park thrives on CrossingTheLineTwice, but even that cannot justify trying to present an innocent and sweet-natured child being traumatized physically to borderline TorturePorn levels and humiliated by our main characters (which includes Stan and Kyle who are [[InformedAttribute suppposed supposed to be]] [[WhatTheHellHero the heroic ones]] for crying out loud) as something [[DudeNotFunny to laugh at]]. To date this is the only episode I always skip because seriously, fuck you guys.



* Tropers/Sewblon: Pandemic and Pendemic 2: The startling in season 12: The show's writers were trying to show that a real child would not like hanging out with the boys or doing any of the things that they do on the show. But they only do that by making the realistic child, Craig, the chosen one, having him hold the boys accountable for things beyond their control, and having the boys put no real effort into defending themselves against his accusations. Craig says that him and the four main boys getting abducted by the government is the boys' fault for coming up with stupid plans that always backfire and that the weird stuff that they keep experiencing is their fault. The problem is that the boys had no way of knowing that the government would imprison all of the Peruvian Panflute bands. So Craig is holding the boys accountable for something that is completely beyond their control, and he is still supposed to be in the right. Also, Craig was only able to save the world from the giant Guinea creatures because the boys cajoled him into joining their panflute band. So if they boys hadn't gone ahead with their crazy idea to start a pan-flute band, humanity would be doomed. To me, Southpark was always at its best when the boys were the only ones who saw how absurd everything was and were the only ones who could do anything about it. So being told that the absurdity is their fault and they need to learn to just leave it alone ruins the experience for me, especially when the justification for it doesn't make any sense in context of the narrative. Plus the boys' defiance in the face of everything that happens around them is part of their charm, so having them fail to stand up for themselves and the choices they make makes them much less likable.

to:

* Tropers/Sewblon: Pandemic and Pendemic 2: The startling in season 12: The show's writers were trying to show that a real child would not like hanging out with the boys or doing any of the things that they do on the show. But they only do that by making the realistic child, Craig, the chosen one, having him hold the boys accountable for things beyond their control, and having the boys put no real effort into defending themselves against his accusations. Craig says that him and the four main boys getting abducted by the government is the boys' fault for coming up with stupid plans that always backfire and that the weird stuff that they keep experiencing is their fault. The problem is that the boys had no way of knowing that the government would imprison all of the Peruvian Panflute bands. So Craig is holding the boys accountable for something that is completely beyond their control, and he is still supposed to be in the right. Also, Craig was only able to save the world from the giant Guinea creatures because the boys cajoled him into joining their panflute band. So if they boys hadn't gone ahead with their crazy idea to start a pan-flute band, humanity would be doomed. To me, Southpark South Park was always at its best when the boys were the only ones who saw how absurd everything was and were the only ones who could do anything about it. So being told that the absurdity is their fault and they need to learn to just leave it alone ruins the experience for me, especially when the justification for it doesn't make any sense in context of the narrative. Plus the boys' defiance in the face of everything that happens around them is part of their charm, so having them fail to stand up for themselves and the choices they make makes them much less likable.
27th Mar '17 7:13:51 AM Scsigs
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** Scsigs: I agree Season 20, on the whole, is the worst season of the show for several reasons. They're all caused by the fact that they made the season serialized. Now, serialization can be good for some shows. A ton of anime shows do this, Tokusatsu shows sometimes do this, & even Western shows, like ''Doctor Who'', ''Avatar: The Last Airbender'', etc have done this, or do that for their entire runs. They did a bit of serialization in the two seasons prior and did similar things many seasons prior. The problem with doing this, however, is that ''South Park'' is a show where the production style allows the creators to, literally, write, record, animate, & put together the episodes within the week that they air. They've honed this really well over the years & only missed a deadline ''once'' in the show's existence after they started doing it in Season 4. Pretty impressive, plus most of the episodes come out pretty well considering the quick production time, but the rushedness & spontaneity of that has allowed for all of the show's greatest moments since Season 4 when they started it. However, this only works best either when the episodes are standalone, aren't directly parodying such large events, have subtle references to each other, or have an idea that works no matter what. It was clear that they were expecting Hilary to win the election from the off. Everyone was...well, except the most hardened of Trump's supporters. There's a myriad of reasons why that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that they clearly didn't expect him to win at all. They even went with the theory that Trump was trying to make himself lose because of some of the batshit stuff that was going on around him at the time; a theory that one of my college professors talked about months prior to the election. Thus, when they aired the episodes after the election, things just didn't get proper closure; the Member Berries, the "Girls VS Boys" Feminism lampooning stuff, etc. This is definitely the biggest learning experience Stone & Parker will have to reflect upon in the future if they ever wanna attempt this kind of thing again. Now, other than the outcomes, let me briefly talk about the setups. The series attempted to juggle many different hot-button issues at once slowly over the season. The "Girls VS Boys" stuff was meant to parody third wave Social Justice Feminism that's been rampant in social media for the last several years at this point. They also wanted to point out that women ''can'' be funny, it's just that the ways many of them go about it, people like Amy Schumer in particular, aren't the best ways because many of their "jokes" revolve around a few topics & aren't told well most of the time. That's immediately dropped because the lesson they wanted to convey was now moot & wouldn't make much sense in the new context. They wanted to say, while having nostalgia for something is fine, you shouldn't let companies keep marketing based on nostalgia, movie companies mostly, and we should be trying to move forwards rather than backwards. They're dropped entirely for the same reason as the other stuff. What's funny though, is that they've portrayed that kind of thing before, and better, so it's nothing entirely new for them. Then Trump. As Garrison stood in for him in the ''South Park'' universe, they tried to have Hilary come off as slightly better. This was a great angle to take this. No one was going to come out of that election unscathed and Trump was dubbed "the joke that went too far" by many both during & after the election, so this made perfect sense. Obviously, they were expecting Hilary to win, but despite all logic, reasoning, & expectations, Trump won. This threw what I suspect was the planned ultimate message of the season into chaos because it no longer made sense, forcing a retool over halfway through. What I suspect was the ultimate plan for the season, given the setup for the payoff, was that Hilary getting elected was supposed to be a sign that the world was ready for a maturity to take place, that even though there will be reboots, sequels, & stupidity in the world, people will come together to not let it run their lives. Unfortunately, the whole thing got flushed down the tubes when Trump got elected, forcing them to make Garrison president instead. thus, a lot of subplots were dropped. The only thing that got a payoff was the Dutch hacking thing, which, by the way, would be a ''huge'' scandal in real life, but that's because the Russian hacking controversy, which is what it's referencing, is. Everyone of these things just kinda failed in what they were set out to do in one way or another. Oh and also a subplot with Gerald that doesn't make sense for him that, I think, is referencing the Twitter controversy around Milo Yiannopoulos. My ultimate problem lies in how some of these don't make any sense. As I put in the YMMV section of the show's page on this site, they tried to connect Trump getting elected with people who like their nostalgia and supported ''Star Wars Episode VII'' by going to see it and that they're terrible people [[DisproportionateRetribution just because they wanna enjoy something that continues the legacy of something from the past]]. Oh, and they're automatically Trump supporters! That drove me off a cliff when I put those together. I have my nostalgia for media I've consumed when I was younger & I enjoyed ''Episode VII'', yet I'm ''no'' Trump supporter, believe me. Hey, Matt & Trey, if you wanna make a point about a particular political figure, don't put people who haven't done anything related to liking him in with his/her supporters please! How do you badly screw up something like that? You wanna say nothing's original anymore & you want Hollywood to start green lighting more new projects? Fine. You wanna say nostalgia's blinding people from enjoying what's new? Fine. You wanna say Trump's a bad candidate who's more likely than not going to bring more regressions than progressions? Fine, but don't lump people who have little to nothing in common just because it seems it'll help your message, at least not the entire time. That's why I say out of everything bad from this season, the first bunch of episodes that establish those 3 things are bad because of the message they send. I still like this show, and I can admit I hate "Stanley's Cup" more as a single episode, but it's these episodes put together that really made me hate this season. Even if Hilary got elected & they were able to carry out all of their subplots, I don't think I'd like those either in that reality. Sorry if this is a bit long, but it had to be to send my disgust through all the way.

to:

** Scsigs: I agree Season 20, on the whole, is the worst season of the show for several reasons. They're all caused by the fact that they made the season serialized. Now, serialization can be good for some shows. A ton of anime shows do this, Tokusatsu shows sometimes do this, & even Western shows, like ''Doctor Who'', ''Avatar: The Last Airbender'', etc have done this, or do that for their entire runs. They did a bit of serialization in the two seasons prior and did similar things many seasons prior. The problem with doing this, however, is that ''South Park'' is a show where the production style allows the creators to, literally, write, record, animate, & put together the episodes within the week that they air. They've honed this really well over the years & only missed a deadline ''once'' in the show's existence after they started doing it in Season 4. Pretty impressive, plus most of the episodes come out pretty well considering the quick production time, but the rushedness & spontaneity of that has allowed for all of the show's greatest moments since Season 4 when they started it. However, this only works best either when the episodes are standalone, aren't directly parodying such large events, have subtle references to each other, or have an idea that works no matter what. It was clear that they were expecting Hilary to win the election from the off. Everyone was...well, except the most hardened of Trump's supporters. There's a myriad of reasons why that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that they clearly didn't expect him to win at all. They even went with the theory that Trump was trying to make himself lose because of some of the batshit stuff that was going on around him at the time; a theory that one of my college professors talked about months prior to the election. Thus, when they aired the episodes after the election, things just didn't get proper closure; the Member Berries, the "Girls VS Boys" Feminism lampooning stuff, etc. This is definitely the biggest learning experience Stone & Parker will have to reflect upon in the future if they ever wanna attempt this kind of thing again. Now, other than the outcomes, let me briefly talk about the setups. The series attempted to juggle many different hot-button issues at once slowly over the season. The "Girls VS Boys" stuff was meant to parody third wave Social Justice Feminism that's been rampant in social media for the last several years at this point. They also wanted to point out that women ''can'' be funny, it's just that the ways many of them go about it, people like Amy Schumer in particular, aren't the best ways because many of their "jokes" revolve around a few topics & aren't told well most of the time. That's immediately dropped because the lesson they wanted to convey was now moot & wouldn't make much sense in the new context. They wanted to say, while having nostalgia for something is fine, you shouldn't let companies keep marketing based on nostalgia, movie companies mostly, and we should be trying to move forwards rather than backwards. They're dropped entirely for the same reason as the other stuff. What's funny though, is that they've portrayed that kind of thing before, and better, so it's nothing entirely new for them. Then Trump. As Garrison stood in for him in the ''South Park'' universe, they tried to have Hilary come off as slightly better. This was a great angle to take this. No one was going to come out of that election unscathed and Trump was dubbed "the joke that went too far" by many both during & after the election, so this made perfect sense. Obviously, they were expecting Hilary to win, but despite all logic, reasoning, & expectations, Trump won. This threw what I suspect was the planned ultimate message of the season into chaos because it no longer made sense, forcing a retool over halfway through. What I suspect was the ultimate plan for the season, given the setup for the payoff, was that Hilary getting elected was supposed to be a sign that the world was ready for a maturity to take place, that even though there will be reboots, sequels, & stupidity in the world, people will come together to not let it run their lives. Unfortunately, the whole thing got flushed down the tubes when Trump got elected, forcing them to make Garrison president instead. thus, a lot of subplots were dropped. The only thing that got a payoff was the Dutch hacking thing, which, by the way, would be a ''huge'' scandal in real life, but that's because the Russian hacking controversy, which is what it's referencing, is. Everyone of these things just kinda failed in what they were set out to do in one way or another. Oh and also a subplot with Gerald that doesn't make sense for him that, I think, is referencing the Twitter controversy around Milo Yiannopoulos. My ultimate problem lies in how some of these don't make any sense. As I put in the YMMV section of the show's page on this site, they tried to connect Trump getting elected with people who like their nostalgia and supported ''Star Wars Episode VII'' by going to see it and that they're terrible people [[DisproportionateRetribution just because they wanna enjoy something that continues the legacy of something from the past]]. Oh, and they're automatically Trump supporters! That drove me off a cliff when I put those together. I have my nostalgia for media I've consumed when I was younger & I enjoyed ''Episode VII'', yet I'm ''no'' Trump supporter, believe me. Hey, Matt & Trey, if you wanna make a point about a particular political figure, don't put people who haven't done anything related to liking him in with his/her supporters please! How do you badly screw up something like that? You wanna say nothing's original anymore & you want Hollywood to start green lighting more new projects? Fine. You wanna say nostalgia's blinding people from enjoying what's new? Fine. You wanna say Trump's a bad candidate who's more likely than not going to bring more regressions than progressions? Fine, but don't lump people who have little to nothing in common just because it seems it'll help your message, together, at least not the entire time. That's why I say out of everything bad from this season, the first bunch of episodes that establish those 3 things are bad because of the message they send. I still like this show, and I can admit I hate "Stanley's Cup" more as a single episode, but it's these episodes put together that really made me hate this season. Even if Hilary got elected & they were able to carry out all of their subplots, I don't think I'd like those either in that reality. Sorry if this is a bit long, but it had to be to send my disgust through all the way.
26th Mar '17 10:52:28 PM Scsigs
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Added DiffLines:

** Scsigs: I agree Season 20, on the whole, is the worst season of the show for several reasons. They're all caused by the fact that they made the season serialized. Now, serialization can be good for some shows. A ton of anime shows do this, Tokusatsu shows sometimes do this, & even Western shows, like ''Doctor Who'', ''Avatar: The Last Airbender'', etc have done this, or do that for their entire runs. They did a bit of serialization in the two seasons prior and did similar things many seasons prior. The problem with doing this, however, is that ''South Park'' is a show where the production style allows the creators to, literally, write, record, animate, & put together the episodes within the week that they air. They've honed this really well over the years & only missed a deadline ''once'' in the show's existence after they started doing it in Season 4. Pretty impressive, plus most of the episodes come out pretty well considering the quick production time, but the rushedness & spontaneity of that has allowed for all of the show's greatest moments since Season 4 when they started it. However, this only works best either when the episodes are standalone, aren't directly parodying such large events, have subtle references to each other, or have an idea that works no matter what. It was clear that they were expecting Hilary to win the election from the off. Everyone was...well, except the most hardened of Trump's supporters. There's a myriad of reasons why that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that they clearly didn't expect him to win at all. They even went with the theory that Trump was trying to make himself lose because of some of the batshit stuff that was going on around him at the time; a theory that one of my college professors talked about months prior to the election. Thus, when they aired the episodes after the election, things just didn't get proper closure; the Member Berries, the "Girls VS Boys" Feminism lampooning stuff, etc. This is definitely the biggest learning experience Stone & Parker will have to reflect upon in the future if they ever wanna attempt this kind of thing again. Now, other than the outcomes, let me briefly talk about the setups. The series attempted to juggle many different hot-button issues at once slowly over the season. The "Girls VS Boys" stuff was meant to parody third wave Social Justice Feminism that's been rampant in social media for the last several years at this point. They also wanted to point out that women ''can'' be funny, it's just that the ways many of them go about it, people like Amy Schumer in particular, aren't the best ways because many of their "jokes" revolve around a few topics & aren't told well most of the time. That's immediately dropped because the lesson they wanted to convey was now moot & wouldn't make much sense in the new context. They wanted to say, while having nostalgia for something is fine, you shouldn't let companies keep marketing based on nostalgia, movie companies mostly, and we should be trying to move forwards rather than backwards. They're dropped entirely for the same reason as the other stuff. What's funny though, is that they've portrayed that kind of thing before, and better, so it's nothing entirely new for them. Then Trump. As Garrison stood in for him in the ''South Park'' universe, they tried to have Hilary come off as slightly better. This was a great angle to take this. No one was going to come out of that election unscathed and Trump was dubbed "the joke that went too far" by many both during & after the election, so this made perfect sense. Obviously, they were expecting Hilary to win, but despite all logic, reasoning, & expectations, Trump won. This threw what I suspect was the planned ultimate message of the season into chaos because it no longer made sense, forcing a retool over halfway through. What I suspect was the ultimate plan for the season, given the setup for the payoff, was that Hilary getting elected was supposed to be a sign that the world was ready for a maturity to take place, that even though there will be reboots, sequels, & stupidity in the world, people will come together to not let it run their lives. Unfortunately, the whole thing got flushed down the tubes when Trump got elected, forcing them to make Garrison president instead. thus, a lot of subplots were dropped. The only thing that got a payoff was the Dutch hacking thing, which, by the way, would be a ''huge'' scandal in real life, but that's because the Russian hacking controversy, which is what it's referencing, is. Everyone of these things just kinda failed in what they were set out to do in one way or another. Oh and also a subplot with Gerald that doesn't make sense for him that, I think, is referencing the Twitter controversy around Milo Yiannopoulos. My ultimate problem lies in how some of these don't make any sense. As I put in the YMMV section of the show's page on this site, they tried to connect Trump getting elected with people who like their nostalgia and supported ''Star Wars Episode VII'' by going to see it and that they're terrible people [[DisproportionateRetribution just because they wanna enjoy something that continues the legacy of something from the past]]. Oh, and they're automatically Trump supporters! That drove me off a cliff when I put those together. I have my nostalgia for media I've consumed when I was younger & I enjoyed ''Episode VII'', yet I'm ''no'' Trump supporter, believe me. Hey, Matt & Trey, if you wanna make a point about a particular political figure, don't put people who haven't done anything related to liking him in with his/her supporters please! How do you badly screw up something like that? You wanna say nothing's original anymore & you want Hollywood to start green lighting more new projects? Fine. You wanna say nostalgia's blinding people from enjoying what's new? Fine. You wanna say Trump's a bad candidate who's more likely than not going to bring more regressions than progressions? Fine, but don't lump people who have little to nothing in common just because it seems it'll help your message, at least not the entire time. That's why I say out of everything bad from this season, the first bunch of episodes that establish those 3 things are bad because of the message they send. I still like this show, and I can admit I hate "Stanley's Cup" more as a single episode, but it's these episodes put together that really made me hate this season. Even if Hilary got elected & they were able to carry out all of their subplots, I don't think I'd like those either in that reality. Sorry if this is a bit long, but it had to be to send my disgust through all the way.
This list shows the last 10 events of 564. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DethroningMoment.SouthPark