History ComicBook / AllStarBatmanAndRobinTheBoyWonder

30th Mar '18 12:36:06 AM Malachi108
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* InsistentTerminology: The series makes sure you know Dick is 12 years old.
** That Dick ''Grayson'' is ''age'' twelve, you mean.

to:

* InsistentTerminology: The series makes sure ''sure'' you know Dick Grayson is 12 years old.
** That Dick ''Grayson'' is ''age'' twelve, you mean.
age twelve.
15th Mar '18 12:45:58 PM PhantomRider
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** Miller himself has stated that this was the entire point: to explain why the Goddamn Batman needed a kid sidekick, anyway--to bring him back down to earth after a period of having too much fun with his crime-fighting. However, it rings pretty hollow when it's in issue seven (''years'' into the series thanks to ScheduleSlip) of a twelve-issue miniseries that that infamous bleach incident takes place. Far from ascending to herodom and influencing Batman to regain his humanity, Dick Grayson, Age Twelve has yet to take up the Robin mantle and was last seen being very impressed by all the deadly weaponry he was surrounded by. Meanwhile, Crazy Steve is deliberately burning crooks to death and enjoying it, while the equally derailed Black Canary swoons over him because apparently that's sexy.

to:

** Miller himself has stated that this was the entire point: to explain why the Goddamn Batman needed a kid sidekick, anyway--to bring him back down to earth after a period of having too much fun with his crime-fighting. However, it rings pretty hollow when it's in issue seven (''years'' into the series thanks to ScheduleSlip) of a twelve-issue miniseries that that infamous bleach incident takes place. Far from ascending to herodom and influencing Batman to regain his humanity, Dick Grayson, Age Twelve has yet to take up the Robin mantle and was last seen being very impressed by all the deadly weaponry he was surrounded by. Meanwhile, Crazy Steve is deliberately burning crooks to death and enjoying it, while the equally derailed Black Canary swoons over him because apparently that's sexy. And whenever Dick Grayson, Age Twelve comes up in his narration, it's pretty much always with a "stuck with an annoying kid" comment as if he wasn't the one who KIDNAPPED HIM.



** Even at his most pumped up, no holds barred, extreme moment in ''The Dark Knight Returns'', Batman couldn't bring himself to kill the Joker. In ''All Star Batman'' he killed crooked cops without hesitation.

to:

** Even at his most pumped up, no holds barred, extreme moment in ''The Dark Knight Returns'', Batman couldn't bring himself to kill the Joker. In ''All Star Batman'' he killed crooked cops without hesitation.hesitation (sometimes plowing through and utterly destroying police cars with ''no way to know'' they were all crooked. He's also quite pleased with crooks killing each other in crossfires, and finishes off the rest by setting them ON FIRE.) This is a guy who places ZERO value on human life.



* DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment: [[SignatureStyle Very often throughout the text. Again and again. There is repetition. Statements are made. Hammered. Insistent. Again and again. Relentless. Tireless. Again and again.]][[note]][[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] accurately compares the dialogue to [[Film/ManosTheHandsofFate Torgo's]] VerbalTic.[[/note]]

to:

* DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment: [[SignatureStyle Very often throughout the text. Again and again. There is repetition. Statements are made. Repeated. Hammered. Insistent. Again and again. Relentless. Tireless. Repeatedly. Again and again.]][[note]][[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] accurately compares the dialogue to [[Film/ManosTheHandsofFate Torgo's]] VerbalTic.[[/note]]
15th Mar '18 12:37:01 PM PhantomRider
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** Miller himself has stated that this was the entire point: to explain why the Goddamn Batman needed a kid sidekick, anyway--to bring him back down to earth after a period of having too much fun with his crime-fighting.

to:

** Miller himself has stated that this was the entire point: to explain why the Goddamn Batman needed a kid sidekick, anyway--to bring him back down to earth after a period of having too much fun with his crime-fighting. However, it rings pretty hollow when it's in issue seven (''years'' into the series thanks to ScheduleSlip) of a twelve-issue miniseries that that infamous bleach incident takes place. Far from ascending to herodom and influencing Batman to regain his humanity, Dick Grayson, Age Twelve has yet to take up the Robin mantle and was last seen being very impressed by all the deadly weaponry he was surrounded by. Meanwhile, Crazy Steve is deliberately burning crooks to death and enjoying it, while the equally derailed Black Canary swoons over him because apparently that's sexy.
12th Mar '18 12:35:04 AM bjshipley1
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** Batman speculating that he could make people think his way wit Green Lantern´s ring... that´s not how it works Bruce.

to:

** Batman speculating that he could make people think his way wit with Green Lantern´s Lantern's ring... that´s that's not how it works works, Bruce.



** The other theme in the book is that Batman's negative, dark, and violent personality has a negative influence on society and culture. With Black Canary and Batgirl being inspired to becoming violent superheroes by following his example, except only in the case of Batgirl is it portrayed as a bad thing. And in another instance where Batman saves a woman from rape, she on seeing Batman attack her assailant grins at seeing his cathartic violence. So the comic itself is not sure whether Batman's violence and behavior is a good and bad thing, and as such the big dramatic moment [[spoiler:where Dick Grayson injures Hal Jordan's collarbone and Bruce chastises himself and Robin]] doesn't make internal or external sense, or go anywhere.

to:

** The other theme in the book is that Batman's negative, dark, and violent personality has a negative influence on society and culture. With Black Canary and Batgirl being inspired to becoming violent superheroes by following his example, except only in the case of Batgirl is it portrayed as a bad thing. And in another instance where Batman saves a woman from rape, she on seeing Batman attack her assailant grins at seeing his cathartic violence. So the comic itself is not sure whether Batman's violence and behavior is a good and bad thing, and as such the big dramatic moment [[spoiler:where Dick Grayson injures Hal Jordan's collarbone larynx and Bruce chastises himself and Robin]] doesn't make internal or external sense, or go anywhere.
16th Feb '18 8:13:22 PM Blazer999
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Added DiffLines:

* Squick: Batman talking about how his mother's breast bled on him after he touched it. Ignoring the fact that it's an implied bullet wound, the overtones are unpleasant to think about.
16th Feb '18 4:18:29 AM RedScharlach
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* ClusterFBomb / SirSwearsALot: Almost every character talks like this, even the 15 year-old Batgirl. ''[[EspeciallyZoidberg Especially]]'' [[EspeciallyZoidberg the 15 year-old fucking Batgirl.]]

to:

* ClusterFBomb / SirSwearsALot: Almost every character talks like this, even the 15 year-old 15-year-old Batgirl. ''[[EspeciallyZoidberg Especially]]'' [[EspeciallyZoidberg the 15 year-old 15-year-old fucking Batgirl.]]



* IndecisiveDeconstruction: The entire comic explores at its heart, the classic-team up between Batman and Robin, the role of the KidSidekick, and the nature of the KidSidekick as an AudienceSurrogate to make the hero relateable, but it raises these points without following on, nor does it properly cohere with the rest of the book:
** Essentially the early issues, about Dick Grayson being "drafted" by Batman into his war on crime, the TrainingFromHell sequences, and the Justice League raising issues about Batman potentially kidnapping an orphan, mirrors common complaints about Batman and Robin, namely that a KidSidekick travelling alongside a hero is reckless child endangerment, and the way the various Robins become Batman's partner-in-crime, can be seen as drafting ChildSoldiers rather than its original intent (i.e. a medium for allowing the kids to [[WishFulfillment share a fantasy]] of being a part of the hero's adventures). The problem is that rather than tackle the subtext of the trope and bring it to light, Miller ''literally'' has Batman kidnap and draft Robin as a child-soldier, subject him to emotional, physical, and psychological abuse, and more or less [[{{Gaslighting}} gaslights]] him into accepting that Batman is boss, and not to be second-guessed, all of which is played as an unironic mutually cathartic team-building exercise rather than a ''ComicBook/MarshalLaw'' type spoof, and the comic itself isn't clear if this is a good or bad thing.

to:

* IndecisiveDeconstruction: The entire comic explores explores, at its heart, the classic-team up between Batman and Robin, the role of the KidSidekick, and the nature of the KidSidekick as an AudienceSurrogate to make the hero relateable, relatable, but it raises these points without following on, nor does it properly cohere with the rest of the book:
** Essentially the early issues, about Dick Grayson being "drafted" by Batman into his war on crime, the TrainingFromHell sequences, and the Justice League raising issues about Batman potentially kidnapping an orphan, mirrors mirror common complaints about Batman and Robin, namely that a KidSidekick travelling alongside a hero is reckless child endangerment, and the way the various Robins become Batman's partner-in-crime, can be seen as drafting ChildSoldiers rather than its original intent (i.e. a medium for allowing the kids to [[WishFulfillment share a fantasy]] of being a part of the hero's adventures). The problem is that rather than tackle the subtext of the trope and bring it to light, Miller ''literally'' has Batman kidnap and draft Robin as a child-soldier, subject him to emotional, physical, and psychological abuse, and more or less [[{{Gaslighting}} gaslights]] him into accepting that Batman is boss, and not to be second-guessed, all of which is played as an unironic mutually cathartic team-building exercise rather than a ''ComicBook/MarshalLaw'' type spoof, and the comic itself isn't clear if this is a good or bad thing.



** The other theme in the book is that Batman's negative, dark, and violent personality has a negative influence on society and culture. With Black Canary and Batgirl being inspired to becoming violent superheroes by following his example, except only in the case of Batgirl is it portrayed as a bad thing. And in another instance where Batman saves a woman from rape, she on seeing Batman attack her assailaint grins at seeing his cathartic violence. So the comic itself is not sure whether Batman's violence and behaviour is a good and bad thing, and as such the big dramatic moment [[spoiler:where Dick Grayson injures Hal Jordan's collarbone and Bruce chastises himself and Robin]] doesn't make internal or external sense, or go anywhere.

to:

** The other theme in the book is that Batman's negative, dark, and violent personality has a negative influence on society and culture. With Black Canary and Batgirl being inspired to becoming violent superheroes by following his example, except only in the case of Batgirl is it portrayed as a bad thing. And in another instance where Batman saves a woman from rape, she on seeing Batman attack her assailaint assailant grins at seeing his cathartic violence. So the comic itself is not sure whether Batman's violence and behaviour behavior is a good and bad thing, and as such the big dramatic moment [[spoiler:where Dick Grayson injures Hal Jordan's collarbone and Bruce chastises himself and Robin]] doesn't make internal or external sense, or go anywhere.



** Given that Robin nearly ''murders'' Hal Jordan at one point... you can probably put him on the {{Jerkass}} list too. Though to be fair, this was a 12 year old boy who'd just watched his parents get murdered, kidnapped by a belligerent man-child dressed like a giant bat who tells him he's going to be a 'detective', and forced to live in a cave where he's told to eat cave-dwelling rodents. His attempt to murder Hal could be seen as the reaction of a severely traumatized preteen.

to:

** Given that Robin nearly ''murders'' Hal Jordan at one point... you can probably put him on the {{Jerkass}} list too. Though to be fair, this was a 12 year old 12-year-old boy who'd just watched his parents get murdered, kidnapped by a belligerent man-child dressed like a giant bat who tells him he's going to be a 'detective', and forced to live in a cave where he's told to eat cave-dwelling rodents. His attempt to murder Hal could be seen as the reaction of a severely traumatized preteen.



* LingerieScene: Vicki Vale's first appearance is three pages of her parading around her apartment in pink lingeries and high heels. Doubles as SexSells.

to:

* LingerieScene: Vicki Vale's first appearance is three pages of her parading around her apartment in pink lingeries lingerie and high heels. Doubles as SexSells.



* MoodWhiplash: Issue 9 was when Batman meets Green Lantern in a yellow room, at first is incredibly funny (DAMN YOU AND YOUR LEMONADE!!) and when Robin starts fighting Green Lantern it's still hilarious and Batman is in the joke but the fun stops abruptly with a splash page of Robin [[spoiler:punching Green Lantern in the throat, almost killing him if it weren't for Batman]]. Then it's followed by a crowning moment of Heartwarming.

to:

* MoodWhiplash: Issue 9 was when Batman meets Green Lantern in a yellow room, at first is incredibly funny (DAMN YOU AND YOUR LEMONADE!!) and when Robin starts fighting Green Lantern it's still hilarious and Batman is in on the joke but the fun stops abruptly with a splash page of Robin [[spoiler:punching Green Lantern in the throat, almost killing him if it weren't for Batman]]. Then it's followed by a crowning moment of Heartwarming.



** As if to [[LampshadeHanging lampshade]] this, a milk carton with 12-year old Dick Grayson's face on it is seen by Superman... While Grayson is still in the Batmobile, being driven away from the scene of his parent's murder, towards the Batcave. This journey takes ''several issues''.

to:

** As if to [[LampshadeHanging lampshade]] this, a milk carton with 12-year old 12-year-old Dick Grayson's face on it is seen by Superman... While Grayson is still in the Batmobile, being driven away from the scene of his parent's murder, towards the Batcave. This journey takes ''several issues''.



* RefugeInAudacity: Black Canary is a barmaid who wears a {{stripperiffic}} oufit as part of her job. One night, the accumulated tension of unattractive men hitting on her in the most vulgar way wears her patience so thin she is ready to explode. Then one of them actually gropes her. She snaps, and beats the everliving crap out everyone, to unconsciousness. She makes a point of making one of them swallow his wedding ring, for obvious reasons. She loots their bodies. She torches the place. She runs away on a motorbike by jumping over a ramp and into the air. Coincidentally, Detective Gordon's car was passing right under. He brushes it off, saying they've got bigger things to worry about. As a matter of fact, he is right. Allstar Gotham is only marginally less insane than ''ComicBook/SinCity''.

to:

* RefugeInAudacity: Black Canary is a barmaid who wears a {{stripperiffic}} oufit outfit as part of her job. One night, the accumulated tension of unattractive men hitting on her in the most vulgar way wears her patience so thin she is ready to explode. Then one of them actually gropes her. She snaps, and beats the everliving crap out everyone, to unconsciousness. She makes a point of making one of them swallow his wedding ring, for obvious reasons. She loots their bodies. She torches the place. She runs away on a motorbike by jumping over a ramp and into the air. Coincidentally, Detective Gordon's car was passing right under. He brushes it off, saying they've got bigger things to worry about. As a matter of fact, he is right. Allstar Gotham is only marginally less insane than ''ComicBook/SinCity''.



** A lot of these issues come up. The series goes over two or three nights, depending on how you look at it, yet Miller seems to forget this since the books took so long to come out. Especially in issue nine. Batman arranges a meeting with Hal Jordan 'In twelve hours' in issue eight; yet in issue nine, Batman is reminiscing about multiple training sessions and Dick Grayson, age 12, being in the cave with him for weeks. Also, apparently an entire clinic was bribed, Dick made a press conference and then they could paint an entire apartment yellow with "nearly an hour to spare" before Jordan arrived for his meeting twelve hours since issue eight.

to:

** A lot of these issues come up. The series goes over two or three nights, depending on how you look at it, yet Miller seems to forget this since the books took so long to come out. Especially in issue nine. Batman arranges a meeting with Hal Jordan 'In 'in twelve hours' in issue eight; yet in issue nine, Batman is reminiscing about multiple training sessions and Dick Grayson, age 12, being in the cave with him for weeks. Also, apparently an entire clinic was bribed, Dick made a press conference and then they could paint an entire apartment yellow with "nearly an hour to spare" before Jordan arrived for his meeting twelve hours since issue eight.
20th Jan '18 10:37:20 AM MagBas
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* StealthParody: Some people speculate the comic is intended as this. Though debatable, once you read the comic it is possible to see where they're coming from. Everything is so over the top, edgy, dark, etc. that it's kind of hard to take seriously. The fact that Frank Miller has proven long ago [[ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns that he can write the caped crusader very well]] also leads people to think he was trying to write a parody. One can see this is an over-the-top parody of Robin as the AudienceSurrogate KidSidekick to the NinetiesAntiHero version of Batman, except Miller's references are A) Dated (since comics aren't targeted for kids like the classic Batman ones were), B) Low-Hanging Fruit. The Goddamn Batman as an over-the-top take on "the Batgod" is plausible until you consider the same comic plays it straight with Batman treating the Justice League as hired help, humiliating and insulting Green Lantern, and dismissing Superman as "no one important".
20th Jan '18 10:00:00 AM BatmanKalEl
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Added DiffLines:

* StealthParody: Some people speculate the comic is intended as this. Though debatable, once you read the comic it is possible to see where they're coming from. Everything is so over the top, edgy, dark, etc. that it's kind of hard to take seriously. The fact that Frank Miller has proven long ago [[ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns that he can write the caped crusader very well]] also leads people to think he was trying to write a parody. One can see this is an over-the-top parody of Robin as the AudienceSurrogate KidSidekick to the NinetiesAntiHero version of Batman, except Miller's references are A) Dated (since comics aren't targeted for kids like the classic Batman ones were), B) Low-Hanging Fruit. The Goddamn Batman as an over-the-top take on "the Batgod" is plausible until you consider the same comic plays it straight with Batman treating the Justice League as hired help, humiliating and insulting Green Lantern, and dismissing Superman as "no one important".
12th Dec '17 3:25:18 PM Odinfrost137
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Added DiffLines:

--> "WHAT TIME IS IT?!" - [[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] and many others frustrated about all the X hours earlier"
3rd Dec '17 10:47:26 AM nombretomado
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* DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment: [[SignatureStyle Very often throughout the text. Again and again. There is repetition. Statements are made. Hammered. Insistent. Again and again. Relentless. Tireless. Again and again.]][[note]][[AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] accurately compares the dialogue to [[Film/ManosTheHandsofFate Torgo's]] VerbalTic.[[/note]]

to:

* DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment: [[SignatureStyle Very often throughout the text. Again and again. There is repetition. Statements are made. Hammered. Insistent. Again and again. Relentless. Tireless. Again and again.]][[note]][[AtopTheFourthWall ]][[note]][[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] accurately compares the dialogue to [[Film/ManosTheHandsofFate Torgo's]] VerbalTic.[[/note]]
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