Follow TV Tropes

Following

History AntiHeroSubstitute / MarvelUniverse

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The entire premise of ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan2013'', which sees [[Characters/MarvelComicsOtto Octavius Otto Octavius a.k.a. Doctor Octopus]] becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.

to:

** The entire premise of ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan2013'', which sees [[Characters/MarvelComicsOtto Octavius [[Characters/MarvelComicsOttoOctavius Otto Octavius a.k.a. Doctor Octopus]] becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The entire premise of ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan2018'', which sees Otto Octavius becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.

to:

** The entire premise of ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan2018'', ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan2013'', which sees [[Characters/MarvelComicsOtto Octavius Otto Octavius a.k.a. Doctor Octopus]] becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.

Added: 307

Changed: 4

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The entire premise of ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', which sees Otto Octavius becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.

to:

** The entire premise of ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan2018'', which sees Otto Octavius becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.hall.
** Ezekiel Sims has similar powers to Peter and a desire to do good, but is often more selfish, cowardly and willing to cross moral lines. Though he at one point attempts to sacrifice Peter to save himself, he does have a HeelRealization at the last minute and instead makes a HeroicSacrifice to save Peter.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In TheEighties, Steve Rogers, the original Captain America, was replaced by John Walker, a NinetiesAntiHero version of himself. To his credit, Walker did eventually make an honest effort to emulate Rogers' ethics until the ComicBook/RedSkull completed his manipulation of him. When Rogers regained the mantle, Walker continued operating as the ComicBook/USAgent. In something of an inversion from the previous examples, the DarkerAndEdgier Walker wore the classic red, white, and blue Cap outfit, while Steve took up a black costume and shield as The Captain.

to:

** In TheEighties, The80s, Steve Rogers, the original Captain America, was replaced by John Walker, a NinetiesAntiHero version of himself. To his credit, Walker did eventually make an honest effort to emulate Rogers' ethics until the ComicBook/RedSkull completed his manipulation of him. When Rogers regained the mantle, Walker continued operating as the ComicBook/USAgent. In something of an inversion from the previous examples, the DarkerAndEdgier Walker wore the classic red, white, and blue Cap outfit, while Steve took up a black costume and shield as The Captain.



* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNineties, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and ComicBook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.

to:

* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNineties, The90s, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and ComicBook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.



** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by ComicBook/{{Thunderstrike}} a.k.a. Eric Masterson in TheNineties, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.

to:

** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by ComicBook/{{Thunderstrike}} a.k.a. Eric Masterson in TheNineties, The90s, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Links


** Like ''Knightfall'' this was apparently a deliberate in-your-face. And the same thing happened with ComicBook/BuckyBarnes as Captain America. That said, Steve went on record in ''Comicbook/HeroicAge: Superheroes'' that there's not a man out there more fit to wear those colors than James Buchanan Barnes.

to:

** Like ''Knightfall'' this was apparently a deliberate in-your-face. And the same thing happened with ComicBook/BuckyBarnes as Captain America. That said, Steve went on record in ''Comicbook/HeroicAge: ''ComicBook/{{Heroic Age|2010}}: Superheroes'' that there's not a man out there more fit to wear those colors than James Buchanan Barnes.



* ''Comicbook/DarkAvengers'': Most of ComicBook/NormanOsborn's Dark Avengers were villains that had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes (Bullseye as Hawkeye, Moonstone as Ms. Marvel, Venom as Spider-Man, Daken as daddy Wolverine). He went a bit overboard on this front during the Comicbook/DarkReign, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace ComicBook/{{SHIELD}}, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati, as well as his own Initiative with ComicBook/TheHood and his gang.

to:

* ''Comicbook/DarkAvengers'': ''ComicBook/DarkAvengers'': Most of ComicBook/NormanOsborn's Dark Avengers were villains that had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes (Bullseye as Hawkeye, Moonstone as Ms. Marvel, Venom as Spider-Man, Daken as daddy Wolverine). He went a bit overboard on this front during the Comicbook/DarkReign, ComicBook/DarkReign, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace ComicBook/{{SHIELD}}, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati, as well as his own Initiative with ComicBook/TheHood and his gang.



* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNineties, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
** Marvel played homage to that story a few years ago with even ''more'' antiheroic versions of those four - the abovementioned Red Hulk and Ghost Rider's DistaffCounterpart Alejandra, ComicBook/{{X 23}} and Flash Thompson's Comicbook/{{Venom}} (RedeemingReplacement to previous Venoms, but much more antiheroic than Spider-Man; he's a US Army soldier rather than a ThouShaltNotKill type superhero).
* ''Comicbook/GhostRider'': Vengeance is an odd example. While Ghost Rider was already an AntiHero, in the nineties, a character named ''Vengeance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier. A new Vengeance has since appeared -- as a villain. And the de-powered original Vengeance seems to be a pretty nice guy these days.

to:

* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNineties, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider ComicBook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
** Marvel played homage to that story a few years ago with even ''more'' antiheroic versions of those four - the abovementioned Red Hulk and Ghost Rider's DistaffCounterpart Alejandra, ComicBook/{{X 23}} and Flash Thompson's Comicbook/{{Venom}} ComicBook/{{Venom}} (RedeemingReplacement to previous Venoms, but much more antiheroic than Spider-Man; he's a US Army soldier rather than a ThouShaltNotKill type superhero).
* ''Comicbook/GhostRider'': ''ComicBook/GhostRider'': Vengeance is an odd example. While Ghost Rider was already an AntiHero, in the nineties, a character named ''Vengeance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier. A new Vengeance has since appeared -- as a villain. And the de-powered original Vengeance seems to be a pretty nice guy these days.



** Tony did this to himself, in a way. When his suit was damaged, he built the Comicbook/WarMachine armor. Not only did it have the appropriate DarkerAndEdgier name but it was loaded with [=BFGs=] and was colored black and gray. Stark wore the armor in a few issues, invoking this trope even though it was the same guy in the armor. After that arc, he gave it to Jim Rhodes, who is actually a bit nicer than Stark. It should also be noted that Rhodes replaced Tony as Iron Man for a couple of years due to Stark's alcoholism so in a way, it was an inversion of this trope.
** After being rendered comatose at the close of ''Comicbook/CivilWarII'', he was replaced by two characters. The main ''Invincible Iron Man'' book was taken over by a teenage girl named Riri Williams, who would eventually become known as Comicbook/{{Ironheart}}. The second book, however, was ''Infamous Iron Man'', which starred the former Comicbook/DoctorDoom in a new suit of Iron Man armor as he tried to become a hero.
** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body.]]

to:

** Tony did this to himself, in a way. When his suit was damaged, he built the Comicbook/WarMachine ComicBook/WarMachine armor. Not only did it have the appropriate DarkerAndEdgier name but it was loaded with [=BFGs=] and was colored black and gray. Stark wore the armor in a few issues, invoking this trope even though it was the same guy in the armor. After that arc, he gave it to Jim Rhodes, who is actually a bit nicer than Stark. It should also be noted that Rhodes replaced Tony as Iron Man for a couple of years due to Stark's alcoholism so in a way, it was an inversion of this trope.
** After being rendered comatose at the close of ''Comicbook/CivilWarII'', ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'', he was replaced by two characters. The main ''Invincible Iron Man'' book was taken over by a teenage girl named Riri Williams, who would eventually become known as Comicbook/{{Ironheart}}. ComicBook/{{Ironheart}}. The second book, however, was ''Infamous Iron Man'', which starred the former Comicbook/DoctorDoom ComicBook/DoctorDoom in a new suit of Iron Man armor as he tried to become a hero.
** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' ''ComicBook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body.]]



** The entire premise of ''Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', which sees Otto Octavius becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.
* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is equally heroic.
* ''ComicBook/XMen'': While she never adopted the name or costume, ComicBook/EmmaFrost essentially became this to Comicbook/JeanGrey after the latter's death in ''ComicBook/NewXMen'', replacing her as the team's resident telepath, the Institute's headmistress and Cyclops' bedmate. This was a status that she was aware of and more than one character (including a teenage Jean) has needled her about it.

to:

** The entire premise of ''Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', which sees Otto Octavius becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.
* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, ComicBook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is equally heroic.
* ''ComicBook/XMen'': While she never adopted the name or costume, ComicBook/EmmaFrost essentially became this to Comicbook/JeanGrey ComicBook/JeanGrey after the latter's death in ''ComicBook/NewXMen'', replacing her as the team's resident telepath, the Institute's headmistress and Cyclops' bedmate. This was a status that she was aware of and more than one character (including a teenage Jean) has needled her about it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Formatting


* ''ComicBook/DoctorStrange'': After Stephen is killed in ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfDoctorStrange', Clea takes over the role of sorcerer supreme in ''ComicBook/Strange2022''. While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would have subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.

to:

* ''ComicBook/DoctorStrange'': After Stephen is killed in ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfDoctorStrange', ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfDoctorStrange'', Clea takes over the role of sorcerer supreme in ''ComicBook/Strange2022''. While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would have subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Link


* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNinties, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.

to:

* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNinties, TheNineties, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.

Added: 5352

Changed: 2135

Removed: 4591

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Alphabatizing


* After being severely beaten, ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' briefly had her place taken by her crazed clone April. April later pulled a HeroicSacrifice to save the original Spider-Girl.
* ''ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk'': The Hulk has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]
** Earlier on in the '80s this trope popped up, with the normal destructive but rarely malicious green Hulk being replaced by an amoral jerkass grey Hulk named Joe Fixit. Green Hulk is an anti-hero to begin with but the trope still stands as Joe Fixit is several notches down the scale. The twist is Joe Fixit is just another of Bruce Banner's repressed personalities.
** And while we're on the subject: Dr. Leonard Samson was a nerdy little nebbish scientist who managed to de-Hulkify Hulk, turning him back into Bruce Banner. He then used a portion of the stored gamma energy to turn himself into Doc Samson, who wasn't really an anti-hero so much as he was just kind of an egotistical jerk. When he started wooing Betty, it convinced Bruce (who was initially ''thrilled'' to be himself again) to use the ''rest'' of the stored gamma energy to turn himself back into the Hulk.

to:


* After being severely beaten, ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' briefly ''ComicBook/AntMan'': The [[TheAdjectivalSuperhero Irredeemable]] Ant-Man, Eric O'Grady, was this to the original Ant-Man, Hank Pym[[note]]not without his own problems - see OnceDoneNeverForgotten[[/note]]. O'Grady got his costume from stealing one of Pym's, and is an often lecherous, cowardly, and amoral man who nonetheless had her place taken by her crazed clone April. April later pulled some positive traits and often wished he was a better person. Not to be confused with Scott Lang, who while also stealing the Ant-Man suit, [[HealthcareMotivation only did it to save his daughter]] and was really sorry about it - if anything he was ''more'' heroic than Pym. O'Grady eventually [[DroppedABridgeOnHim got killed off]] (albeit in a HeroicSacrifice to save a child) right around the original Spider-Girl.
time Marvel decided to bring Lang back.
* ''ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk'': The Hulk has both subverted ''ComicBook/BlackPanther'': Kasper Cole briefly took the name for some reason or other, and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules fights crime and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' junk and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]
** Earlier on in the '80s this trope popped up, with the normal destructive but rarely malicious green Hulk being replaced by an amoral jerkass grey Hulk named Joe Fixit. Green Hulk is an anti-hero to begin with but the trope still stands as Joe Fixit is several notches down the scale. The twist is Joe Fixit is just another of Bruce Banner's repressed personalities.
** And while we're on the subject: Dr. Leonard Samson was
stuff. Used guns for a nerdy little nebbish scientist who managed to de-Hulkify Hulk, turning him back into Bruce Banner. He then used a portion of the stored gamma energy to turn himself into Doc Samson, who wasn't really an anti-hero so much as he was just kind of an egotistical jerk. When he started wooing Betty, it convinced Bruce (who was initially ''thrilled'' to be himself again) to use the ''rest'' of the stored gamma energy to turn himself back into the Hulk.while.



** Like ''Knightfall'' this was apparently a deliberate in your face. And the same thing happened with ComicBook/BuckyBarnes as Captain America. That said, Steve went on record in ''Comicbook/HeroicAge: Superheroes'' that there's not a man out there more fit to wear those colors than James Buchanan Barnes.
*** It should be noted that during Bucky's tenure as Cap, that while he did use his gun and his costume did invoke a DarkerAndEdgier angle[[note]]the costume had far more black than the red, white, and blue.[[/note]], the main conflict for Bucky was whether or not he could do right by Steve Rogers as Captain America. As such, Bucky would act as best of a hero as he possibly could during that amount of time as Cap.

to:

** Like ''Knightfall'' this was apparently a deliberate in your face.in-your-face. And the same thing happened with ComicBook/BuckyBarnes as Captain America. That said, Steve went on record in ''Comicbook/HeroicAge: Superheroes'' that there's not a man out there more fit to wear those colors than James Buchanan Barnes.
*** It should be noted that during Bucky's tenure as Cap, that while he did use his gun and his costume did invoke a DarkerAndEdgier angle[[note]]the costume had far more black than the red, white, and blue.[[/note]], the main conflict for Bucky was whether or not he could do right by Steve Rogers as Captain America. As such, Bucky would act as best of a hero as he possibly could during that amount of time as Cap.Cap.
* ''Comicbook/DarkAvengers'': Most of ComicBook/NormanOsborn's Dark Avengers were villains that had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes (Bullseye as Hawkeye, Moonstone as Ms. Marvel, Venom as Spider-Man, Daken as daddy Wolverine). He went a bit overboard on this front during the Comicbook/DarkReign, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace ComicBook/{{SHIELD}}, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati, as well as his own Initiative with ComicBook/TheHood and his gang.
* ''ComicBook/DoctorStrange'': After Stephen is killed in ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfDoctorStrange', Clea takes over the role of sorcerer supreme in ''ComicBook/Strange2022''. While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would have subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.
* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Intentionally done in TheNinties, when the Fantastic Four were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
** Marvel played homage to that story a few years ago with even ''more'' antiheroic versions of those four - the abovementioned Red Hulk and Ghost Rider's DistaffCounterpart Alejandra, ComicBook/{{X 23}} and Flash Thompson's Comicbook/{{Venom}} (RedeemingReplacement to previous Venoms, but much more antiheroic than Spider-Man; he's a US Army soldier rather than a ThouShaltNotKill type superhero).
* ''Comicbook/GhostRider'': Vengeance is an odd example. While Ghost Rider was already an AntiHero, in the nineties, a character named ''Vengeance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier. A new Vengeance has since appeared -- as a villain. And the de-powered original Vengeance seems to be a pretty nice guy these days.
* ''ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk'': The Hulk has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]
** Earlier on in the '80s this trope popped up, with the normal destructive but rarely malicious green Hulk being replaced by an amoral jerkass grey Hulk named Joe Fixit. Green Hulk is an anti-hero to begin with but the trope still stands as Joe Fixit is several notches down the scale. The twist is Joe Fixit is just another of Bruce Banner's repressed personalities.
** And while we're on the subject: Dr. Leonard Samson was a nerdy little nebbish scientist who managed to de-Hulkify Hulk, turning him back into Bruce Banner. He then used a portion of the stored gamma energy to turn himself into Doc Samson, who wasn't really an anti-hero so much as he was just kind of an egotistical jerk. When he started wooing Betty, it convinced Bruce (who was initially ''thrilled'' to be himself again) to use the ''rest'' of the stored gamma energy to turn himself back into the Hulk.
* ''ComicBook/IronMan'':
** Tony did this to himself, in a way. When his suit was damaged, he built the Comicbook/WarMachine armor. Not only did it have the appropriate DarkerAndEdgier name but it was loaded with [=BFGs=] and was colored black and gray. Stark wore the armor in a few issues, invoking this trope even though it was the same guy in the armor. After that arc, he gave it to Jim Rhodes, who is actually a bit nicer than Stark. It should also be noted that Rhodes replaced Tony as Iron Man for a couple of years due to Stark's alcoholism so in a way, it was an inversion of this trope.
** After being rendered comatose at the close of ''Comicbook/CivilWarII'', he was replaced by two characters. The main ''Invincible Iron Man'' book was taken over by a teenage girl named Riri Williams, who would eventually become known as Comicbook/{{Ironheart}}. The second book, however, was ''Infamous Iron Man'', which starred the former Comicbook/DoctorDoom in a new suit of Iron Man armor as he tried to become a hero.
** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body.]]



** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by Thunderstrike a.k.a. Eric Masterson in TheNineties, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.
** Also [[DownPlayedTrope downplayed]] by Beta Ray Bill, who was somewhat more merciless compared to Thor but otherwise still a noble and courageous soul.

to:

** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by Thunderstrike ComicBook/{{Thunderstrike}} a.k.a. Eric Masterson in TheNineties, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.
** Also [[DownPlayedTrope downplayed]] by Beta Ray Bill, ComicBook/BetaRayBill, who was somewhat more merciless compared to Thor but otherwise still a noble and courageous soul.



* Most of ComicBook/NormanOsborn's Comicbook/DarkAvengers were villains that had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes (Bullseye as Hawkeye, Moonstone as Ms. Marvel, Venom as Spider-Man, Daken as daddy Wolverine). He went a bit overboard on this front during the Comicbook/DarkReign, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace ComicBook/{{SHIELD}}, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati, as well as his own Initiative with ComicBook/TheHood and his gang.
* Comicbook/GhostRider has an odd example. He is already an AntiHero but in the nineties, a character named ''Vengeance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier. A new Vengeance has since appeared -- as a villain. And the de-powered original Vengeance seems to be a pretty nice guy these days.
* ''ComicBook/Strange2022'': While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would have subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.
* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
** Marvel played homage to that story a few years ago with even ''more'' antiheroic versions of those four - the abovementioned Red Hulk and Ghost Rider's DistaffCounterpart Alejandra, ComicBook/{{X 23}} and Flash Thompson's Comicbook/{{Venom}} (RedeemingReplacement to previous Venoms, but much more antiheroic than Spider-Man; he's a US Army soldier rather than a ThouShaltNotKill type superhero).
* The [[TheAdjectivalSuperhero Irredeemable]] ComicBook/AntMan, Eric O'Grady, was this to the original Ant-Man, Hank Pym[[note]]not without his own problems - see OnceDoneNeverForgotten[[/note]]. O'Grady got his costume from stealing one of Pym's, and is an often lecherous, cowardly, and amoral man who nonetheless had some positive traits and often wished he was a better person. Not to be confused with Scott Lang, who while also stealing the Ant-Man suit, [[HealthcareMotivation only did it to save his daughter]] and was really sorry about it - if anything he was ''more'' heroic than Pym.
** O'Grady eventually [[DroppedABridgeOnHim got killed off]] (albeit in a HeroicSacrifice to save a child) right around the time Marvel decided to bring Lang back.
* 'ComicBook/IronMan'':
** Tony did this to himself, in a way. When his suit was damaged, he built the Comicbook/WarMachine armor. Not only did it have the appropriate DarkerAndEdgier name but it was loaded with [=BFGs=] and was colored black and gray. Stark wore the armor in a few issues, invoking this trope even though it was the same guy in the armor. After that arc, he gave it to Jim Rhodes, who is actually a bit nicer than Stark. It should also be noted that Rhodes replaced Tony as Iron Man for a couple of years due to Stark's alcoholism so in a way, it was an inversion of this trope.
** After being rendered comatose at the close of ''Comicbook/CivilWarII'', he was replaced by two characters. The main ''Invincible Iron Man'' book was taken over by a teenage girl named Riri Williams, who would eventually become known as Comicbook/{{Ironheart}}. The second book, however, was ''Infamous Iron Man'', which starred the former Comicbook/DoctorDoom in a new suit of Iron Man armor as he tried to become a hero.
** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body.]]

to:

* Most of ComicBook/NormanOsborn's Comicbook/DarkAvengers were villains that ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'': After being severely beaten, Spider-Girl briefly had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes (Bullseye as Hawkeye, Moonstone as Ms. Marvel, Venom as Spider-Man, Daken as daddy Wolverine). He went a bit overboard on this front during the Comicbook/DarkReign, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace ComicBook/{{SHIELD}}, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati, as well as his own Initiative with ComicBook/TheHood and his gang.
* Comicbook/GhostRider has an odd example. He is already an AntiHero but in the nineties, a character named ''Vengeance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier. A new Vengeance has since appeared -- as a villain. And the de-powered original Vengeance seems to be a pretty nice guy these days.
* ''ComicBook/Strange2022'': While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would have subjected
her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling place taken by her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.
* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
** Marvel played homage to that story a few years ago with even ''more'' antiheroic versions of those four - the abovementioned Red Hulk and Ghost Rider's DistaffCounterpart Alejandra, ComicBook/{{X 23}} and Flash Thompson's Comicbook/{{Venom}} (RedeemingReplacement to previous Venoms, but much more antiheroic than Spider-Man; he's a US Army soldier rather than a ThouShaltNotKill type superhero).
* The [[TheAdjectivalSuperhero Irredeemable]] ComicBook/AntMan, Eric O'Grady, was this to the original Ant-Man, Hank Pym[[note]]not without his own problems - see OnceDoneNeverForgotten[[/note]]. O'Grady got his costume from stealing one of Pym's, and is an often lecherous, cowardly, and amoral man who nonetheless had some positive traits and often wished he was a better person. Not to be confused with Scott Lang, who while also stealing the Ant-Man suit, [[HealthcareMotivation only did it to save his daughter]] and was really sorry about it - if anything he was ''more'' heroic than Pym.
** O'Grady eventually [[DroppedABridgeOnHim got killed off]] (albeit in
crazed clone April. April later pulled a HeroicSacrifice to save a child) right around the time Marvel decided to bring Lang back.
* 'ComicBook/IronMan'':
** Tony did this to himself, in a way. When his suit was damaged, he built the Comicbook/WarMachine armor. Not only did it have the appropriate DarkerAndEdgier name but it was loaded with [=BFGs=] and was colored black and gray. Stark wore the armor in a few issues, invoking this trope even though it was the same guy in the armor. After that arc, he gave it to Jim Rhodes, who is actually a bit nicer than Stark. It should also be noted that Rhodes replaced Tony as Iron Man for a couple of years due to Stark's alcoholism so in a way, it was an inversion of this trope.
** After being rendered comatose at the close of ''Comicbook/CivilWarII'', he was replaced by two characters. The main ''Invincible Iron Man'' book was taken over by a teenage girl named Riri Williams, who would eventually become known as Comicbook/{{Ironheart}}. The second book, however, was ''Infamous Iron Man'', which starred the former Comicbook/DoctorDoom in a new suit of Iron Man armor as he tried to become a hero.
** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body.]]
original Spider-Girl.



* ''ComicBook/BlackPanther'': Kasper Cole briefly took the name for some reason or other, and fights crime and junk and stuff. Used guns for a while.

Added: 1209

Changed: 1956

Removed: 748

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Link


** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Once Flash Thompson became Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best. And then it went back to anti-hero again as Eddie.



* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and Franchise/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.

to:

* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and Franchise/SpiderMan, ComicBook/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.



* ComicBook/IronMan:

to:

* ComicBook/IronMan:'ComicBook/IronMan'':



* [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for Franchise/SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.

to:

* ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'':
** ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Spider-Man (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Once Flash Thompson became Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best. And then it went back to anti-hero again as Eddie.
**
[[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for Franchise/SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.



* ComicBook/EmmaFrost. While she never adopted the name or costume, she essentially became this to Comicbook/JeanGrey after the latter's death in ''New X-Men'', replacing her as the team's resident telepath, the Institute's headmistress and Cyclops' bedmate. This was a status that she was aware of and more than one character (including a teenage Jean) has needled her about it.
* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is is equally heroic.
* Kasper Cole briefly took the name ComicBook/BlackPanther for some reason or other, and fights crime and junk and stuff. Used guns for awhile.

to:

* ComicBook/EmmaFrost. While she never adopted the name or costume, she essentially became this to Comicbook/JeanGrey after the latter's death in ''New X-Men'', replacing her as the team's resident telepath, the Institute's headmistress and Cyclops' bedmate. This was a status that she was aware of and more than one character (including a teenage Jean) has needled her about it.
* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is is equally heroic.
* ''ComicBook/BlackPanther'': Kasper Cole briefly took the name ComicBook/BlackPanther for some reason or other, and fights crime and junk and stuff. Used guns for awhile.a while.
* ''ComicBook/XMen'': While she never adopted the name or costume, ComicBook/EmmaFrost essentially became this to Comicbook/JeanGrey after the latter's death in ''ComicBook/NewXMen'', replacing her as the team's resident telepath, the Institute's headmistress and Cyclops' bedmate. This was a status that she was aware of and more than one character (including a teenage Jean) has needled her about it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Link


* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and Franchise/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/IncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.

to:

* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and Franchise/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/IncredibleHulk [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Link


* [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk Hulk]] has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]

to:

* [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk Hulk]] ''ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk'': The Hulk has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating Link


* [[Comicbook/IncredibleHulk Hulk]] has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]

to:

* [[Comicbook/IncredibleHulk [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk Hulk]] has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''ComicBook/Strange2022'': While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.

to:

* ''ComicBook/Strange2022'': While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would have subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.

Added: 4

Changed: 9

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


!!Franchise/MarvelUniverse

to:

!!Franchise/MarvelUniverse!!Franchise/MarvelUniverse:



* [[Comicbook/IncredibleHulk Hulk]] has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers]].
** Earlier on in the 80s this trope popped up, with the normal destructive but rarely malicious green Hulk being replaced by an amoral jerkass grey Hulk named Joe Fixit. Green Hulk is an anti-hero to begin with but the trope still stands as Joe Fixit is several notches down the scale. The twist is Joe Fixit is just another of Bruce Banner's repressed personalities.

to:

* [[Comicbook/IncredibleHulk Hulk]] has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers]].
powers.]]
** Earlier on in the 80s '80s this trope popped up, with the normal destructive but rarely malicious green Hulk being replaced by an amoral jerkass grey Hulk named Joe Fixit. Green Hulk is an anti-hero to begin with but the trope still stands as Joe Fixit is several notches down the scale. The twist is Joe Fixit is just another of Bruce Banner's repressed personalities.



** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by Thunderstrike a.k.a Eric Masterson in TheNineties, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.

to:

** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by Thunderstrike a.k.a a. Eric Masterson in TheNineties, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.



* ComicBook/IronMan

to:

* ComicBook/IronManComicBook/IronMan:



** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body]].
* [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for Franchise/SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.

to:

** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body]].
body.]]
* [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for Franchise/SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.



* Kasper Cole briefly took the name ComicBook/BlackPanther for some reason or other, and fights crime and junk and stuff. Used guns for awhile.

to:

* Kasper Cole briefly took the name ComicBook/BlackPanther for some reason or other, and fights crime and junk and stuff. Used guns for awhile.awhile.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/Strange2022'': While Clea is compassionate like Stephen, she hails from the Dark Dimension, meaning that she doesn't abide by the typical ThouShaltNotKill rule ([[FateWorseThanDeath and death is preferable to whatever she would subjected her foes to at home]]). Wong is horrified when she murders the gangsters who invade the Shrouded Bazaar, angrily telling her that Stephen would have never done what she did. Clea retorts that she is ''not'' Stephen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is is equally heroic.

to:

* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is is equally heroic.heroic.
* Kasper Cole briefly took the name ComicBook/BlackPanther for some reason or other, and fights crime and junk and stuff. Used guns for awhile.

Changed: 2

Removed: 631

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Once Flash Thompson became Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best. And then it went back to anti-hero again as Eddie
* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they look like fricking saints.
** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]

to:

** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Once Flash Thompson became Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best. And then it went back to anti-hero again as Eddie
* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they look like fricking saints.
** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]
Eddie.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]]]
* Comicbook/GhostRider has an odd example. He is already an AntiHero but in the nineties, a character named ''Vengeance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier. A new Vengeance has since appeared -- as a villain. And the de-powered original Vengeance seems to be a pretty nice guy these days.
* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and Franchise/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/IncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.
** Marvel played homage to that story a few years ago with even ''more'' antiheroic versions of those four - the abovementioned Red Hulk and Ghost Rider's DistaffCounterpart Alejandra, ComicBook/{{X 23}} and Flash Thompson's Comicbook/{{Venom}} (RedeemingReplacement to previous Venoms, but much more antiheroic than Spider-Man; he's a US Army soldier rather than a ThouShaltNotKill type superhero).
* The [[TheAdjectivalSuperhero Irredeemable]] ComicBook/AntMan, Eric O'Grady, was this to the original Ant-Man, Hank Pym[[note]]not without his own problems - see OnceDoneNeverForgotten[[/note]]. O'Grady got his costume from stealing one of Pym's, and is an often lecherous, cowardly, and amoral man who nonetheless had some positive traits and often wished he was a better person. Not to be confused with Scott Lang, who while also stealing the Ant-Man suit, [[HealthcareMotivation only did it to save his daughter]] and was really sorry about it - if anything he was ''more'' heroic than Pym.
** O'Grady eventually [[DroppedABridgeOnHim got killed off]] (albeit in a HeroicSacrifice to save a child) right around the time Marvel decided to bring Lang back.
* ComicBook/IronMan
** Tony did this to himself, in a way. When his suit was damaged, he built the Comicbook/WarMachine armor. Not only did it have the appropriate DarkerAndEdgier name but it was loaded with [=BFGs=] and was colored black and gray. Stark wore the armor in a few issues, invoking this trope even though it was the same guy in the armor. After that arc, he gave it to Jim Rhodes, who is actually a bit nicer than Stark. It should also be noted that Rhodes replaced Tony as Iron Man for a couple of years due to Stark's alcoholism so in a way, it was an inversion of this trope.
** After being rendered comatose at the close of ''Comicbook/CivilWarII'', he was replaced by two characters. The main ''Invincible Iron Man'' book was taken over by a teenage girl named Riri Williams, who would eventually become known as Comicbook/{{Ironheart}}. The second book, however, was ''Infamous Iron Man'', which starred the former Comicbook/DoctorDoom in a new suit of Iron Man armor as he tried to become a hero.
** ''Comicbook/IronMan2020Event'' stars Tony's brother Arno Stark, a vicious anti-hero who takes over as the new Iron Man after [[spoiler:Tony comes to believe he died during ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'' because of the nature of his current body]].
* [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for Franchise/SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.
** The entire premise of ''Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', which sees Otto Octavius becoming a DarkerAndEdgier Spider-Man after performing a FreakyFridayFlip with Peter Parker and then leaving him to die in Ock's frail body. As Spider-Man, Otto spies on criminals 24/7 with automated "Spider-bots" equipped with cameras, employs a private mercenary army called "Spider-Patrol 7", and even has his own force of eight-legged HumongousMecha decked out in Spider-Man's classic red and blue. Notably, where Peter was the classic HeroWithBadPublicity who was frequently treated as a criminal nuisance by the cops and the press, Otto frequently ''gives orders'' to the police and city hall.
* ComicBook/EmmaFrost. While she never adopted the name or costume, she essentially became this to Comicbook/JeanGrey after the latter's death in ''New X-Men'', replacing her as the team's resident telepath, the Institute's headmistress and Cyclops' bedmate. This was a status that she was aware of and more than one character (including a teenage Jean) has needled her about it.
* ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'': Inverted. Monica Chang, the second Comicbook/BlackWidow, is far more pure and upstanding than her predecessor, who killed children in cold blood and was secretly TheMole to a super-powered terrorist army that takes over the United States in one arc before being killed. After Monica dies in ''Ultimatum'', a third Black Widow (the Peter Parker clone known as Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman) takes over, and is is equally heroic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* After being severely beaten, ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' briefly had her place taken by her crazed clone April. April later pulled a HeroicSacrifice to save the original Spider-Girl.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

!!Franchise/MarvelUniverse
* [[Comicbook/IncredibleHulk Hulk]] has both subverted and played this trope straight at the same time. After ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'', with the Hulk [[spoiler:imprisoned by the army]], his series was taken over by Hercules and a new series was launched with a mysterious ComicBook/RedHulk as the central character. ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules subverted the trope quickly, proving he's anything ''but'' an AntiHero, while Red Hulk played it straight, acting like a ''total dick'' and [[spoiler:making Hulk lose his powers]].
** Earlier on in the 80s this trope popped up, with the normal destructive but rarely malicious green Hulk being replaced by an amoral jerkass grey Hulk named Joe Fixit. Green Hulk is an anti-hero to begin with but the trope still stands as Joe Fixit is several notches down the scale. The twist is Joe Fixit is just another of Bruce Banner's repressed personalities.
** And while we're on the subject: Dr. Leonard Samson was a nerdy little nebbish scientist who managed to de-Hulkify Hulk, turning him back into Bruce Banner. He then used a portion of the stored gamma energy to turn himself into Doc Samson, who wasn't really an anti-hero so much as he was just kind of an egotistical jerk. When he started wooing Betty, it convinced Bruce (who was initially ''thrilled'' to be himself again) to use the ''rest'' of the stored gamma energy to turn himself back into the Hulk.
* ''ComicBook/CaptainAmerica'':
** In TheEighties, Steve Rogers, the original Captain America, was replaced by John Walker, a NinetiesAntiHero version of himself. To his credit, Walker did eventually make an honest effort to emulate Rogers' ethics until the ComicBook/RedSkull completed his manipulation of him. When Rogers regained the mantle, Walker continued operating as the ComicBook/USAgent. In something of an inversion from the previous examples, the DarkerAndEdgier Walker wore the classic red, white, and blue Cap outfit, while Steve took up a black costume and shield as The Captain.
** Like ''Knightfall'' this was apparently a deliberate in your face. And the same thing happened with ComicBook/BuckyBarnes as Captain America. That said, Steve went on record in ''Comicbook/HeroicAge: Superheroes'' that there's not a man out there more fit to wear those colors than James Buchanan Barnes.
*** It should be noted that during Bucky's tenure as Cap, that while he did use his gun and his costume did invoke a DarkerAndEdgier angle[[note]]the costume had far more black than the red, white, and blue.[[/note]], the main conflict for Bucky was whether or not he could do right by Steve Rogers as Captain America. As such, Bucky would act as best of a hero as he possibly could during that amount of time as Cap.
* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'':
** In an inversion, Thor was replaced by Thunderstrike a.k.a Eric Masterson in TheNineties, except Thunderstrike was less likely to kill a dangerous opponent and he came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero. Thunderstrike did however, look the part. Complicating the whole thing was that Thunderstrike had previously ''been'' Thor himself.
** Also [[DownPlayedTrope downplayed]] by Beta Ray Bill, who was somewhat more merciless compared to Thor but otherwise still a noble and courageous soul.
** Played a bit straighter with Eric Masterson's son, Kevin Masterson. Not long after inheriting his father's Thunderstrike Mace, Kevin becomes the [[LegacyCharacter second Thunderstrike]]. While not even remotely evil or anything, being a young teenager in a slightly aged-up alter-ego body who was struggling with the loss of his father (who he felt was largely abandoned by the Avengers) definitely lends him to be more superficially anti-heroic than his dad was.
** As of mid-2017, there are ''three'' Thors running around. The Odinson himself, Jane Foster (wielding Mjolnir), and the "War Thor" - a traumatised [[spoiler: Volstagg]] wielding Ultimate Thor's hammer. The first two are straightforward heroes, but the third is very much this.
--->'''Narrator:''' Behold the War Thor, and prepare to bleed.
* Most of ComicBook/NormanOsborn's Comicbook/DarkAvengers were villains that had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes (Bullseye as Hawkeye, Moonstone as Ms. Marvel, Venom as Spider-Man, Daken as daddy Wolverine). He went a bit overboard on this front during the Comicbook/DarkReign, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace ComicBook/{{SHIELD}}, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati, as well as his own Initiative with ComicBook/TheHood and his gang.
** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Once Flash Thompson became Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best. And then it went back to anti-hero again as Eddie
* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they look like fricking saints.
** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]

Top