History Analysis / SpeculativeFiction

1st Nov '15 5:11:44 PM Llygodenfawr
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Even if we could clearly tell the improbable from the impossible, that wouldn't be enough. Franchise/StarTrek is Sci-''Fi'' despite having seemingly impossible PsychicPowers and heaping amounts of AppliedPhlebotinum (the transporter in particular is ''way'' out there); earthborn dragons are fantasy, most of the time, despite being merely improbable, not impossible.

Perhaps while Fantasy and SF both deal with the unreal, they differ only in ''how'' unreal. One man's (not to mention one century's) Fantasy is another man's''/''century's Science-Fiction. On the other hand, when Sci-Fi includes [[Literature/DragonridersOfPern time-traveling dragons]], mind-controlling spells on a planetary scale, and [[Franchise/StarTrek the ghosts of the dead possessing starships]], it's not clear that it's possible to get any more unreal.

to:

Even if we could clearly tell the improbable from the impossible, that wouldn't be enough. Franchise/StarTrek is Sci-''Fi'' Sci-Fi despite having seemingly impossible PsychicPowers and heaping amounts of AppliedPhlebotinum (the transporter in particular is ''way'' out there); earthborn dragons are fantasy, most of the time, despite being merely improbable, not impossible.

Perhaps while Fantasy and SF both deal with the unreal, they differ only in ''how'' unreal. One man's (not to mention one century's) Fantasy is another man's''/''century's man's/century's Science-Fiction. On the other hand, when Sci-Fi includes [[Literature/DragonridersOfPern time-traveling dragons]], mind-controlling spells on a planetary scale, and [[Franchise/StarTrek the ghosts of the dead possessing starships]], it's not clear that it's possible to get any more unreal.
22nd Jun '15 6:07:10 PM TompaDompa
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One of the original and still the most useful definitions (albeit a biased one, seeing as it clearly implies superiority of one form over another, something that is ... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement heavily contended, shall we say]]) of the difference was that Science Fiction is about the social consequences of improbable events or technologies, whereas Fantasy is just about telling a good story. (David Eddings summed it up best: "They get all bogged down in telling you how the watch works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story.") While more clear-cut than most definitions, this one does place some works of fiction in the opposite category to the one they are most commonly associated with, for example ''StarWars'' would be definitely in the Fantasy category. Then again Star Wars ''does'' have ghosts and sorceresses, so...

to:

One of the original and still the most useful definitions (albeit a biased one, seeing as it clearly implies superiority of one form over another, something that is ... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement heavily contended, shall we say]]) of the difference was that Science Fiction is about the social consequences of improbable events or technologies, whereas Fantasy is just about telling a good story. (David Eddings summed it up best: "They get all bogged down in telling you how the watch works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story.") While more clear-cut than most definitions, this one does place some works of fiction in the opposite category to the one they are most commonly associated with, for example ''StarWars'' ''Film/StarWars'' would be definitely in the Fantasy category. Then again Star Wars ''does'' have ghosts and sorceresses, so...



A recurring theme in the conflict seems to be a desire to force {{Fantasy}} elements into a more "realistic" ScienceFiction [[DoingInTheWizard explanation]] (strangely [[DoingInTheScientist the reverse]] seems to be much rarer). The "Force Ghosts" from ''StarWars'' are a good example, with numerous fans trying to explain them away in more scientific terms than... well, ghosts. Many Fantasy fans ''really'' dislike this sort of FanWank.

to:

A recurring theme in the conflict seems to be a desire to force {{Fantasy}} elements into a more "realistic" ScienceFiction [[DoingInTheWizard explanation]] (strangely [[DoingInTheScientist the reverse]] seems to be much rarer). The "Force Ghosts" from ''StarWars'' ''Film/StarWars'' are a good example, with numerous fans trying to explain them away in more scientific terms than... well, ghosts. Many Fantasy fans ''really'' dislike this sort of FanWank.
6th Apr '15 10:27:43 AM nombretomado
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Perhaps while Fantasy and SF both deal with the unreal, they differ only in ''how'' unreal. One man's (not to mention one century's) Fantasy is another man's''/''century's Science-Fiction. On the other hand, when Sci-Fi includes [[DragonRidersOfPern time-traveling dragons]], mind-controlling spells on a planetary scale, and [[Franchise/StarTrek the ghosts of the dead possessing starships]], it's not clear that it's possible to get any more unreal.

to:

Perhaps while Fantasy and SF both deal with the unreal, they differ only in ''how'' unreal. One man's (not to mention one century's) Fantasy is another man's''/''century's Science-Fiction. On the other hand, when Sci-Fi includes [[DragonRidersOfPern [[Literature/DragonridersOfPern time-traveling dragons]], mind-controlling spells on a planetary scale, and [[Franchise/StarTrek the ghosts of the dead possessing starships]], it's not clear that it's possible to get any more unreal.
15th Apr '14 11:40:28 AM Delta497
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One of the original and still the most useful definitions (albeit a biased one, seeing as it clearly implies superiority of one form over another, something that is ... heavily contended, shall we say) of the difference was that Science Fiction is about the social consequences of improbable events or technologies, whereas Fantasy is just about telling a good story. (David Eddings summed it up best: "They get all bogged down in telling you how the watch works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story.") While more clear-cut than most definitions, this one does place some works of fiction in the opposite category to the one they are most commonly associated with, for example ''StarWars'' would be definitely in the Fantasy category. Then again Star Wars ''does'' have ghosts and sorceresses, so...

to:

One of the original and still the most useful definitions (albeit a biased one, seeing as it clearly implies superiority of one form over another, something that is ... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement heavily contended, shall we say) say]]) of the difference was that Science Fiction is about the social consequences of improbable events or technologies, whereas Fantasy is just about telling a good story. (David Eddings summed it up best: "They get all bogged down in telling you how the watch works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story.") While more clear-cut than most definitions, this one does place some works of fiction in the opposite category to the one they are most commonly associated with, for example ''StarWars'' would be definitely in the Fantasy category. Then again Star Wars ''does'' have ghosts and sorceresses, so...
28th Oct '13 6:21:25 AM Willbyr
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All this is why the new label SpeculativeFiction was invented (Creator/RobertAHeinlein and HarlanEllison have both been credited with the coinage).

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All this is why the new label SpeculativeFiction was invented (Creator/RobertAHeinlein and HarlanEllison Creator/HarlanEllison have both been credited with the coinage).
3rd Apr '13 8:17:41 AM Paradisesnake
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But what do you do when [[MagicFromTechnology Sufficiently Advanced Technology]] and [[{{Magitek}} Sufficiently Advanced Magic]] are equally indistinguishable from each other? [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragon D&D]] can emulate everything in the "Science Fiction" setting above without breaking a sweat. And you could pick any item out of the "Fantasy" side and find a whole [[ScifiCounterpart sci-fi series built around it]].

to:

But what do you do when [[MagicFromTechnology Sufficiently Advanced Technology]] and [[{{Magitek}} Sufficiently Advanced Magic]] are equally indistinguishable from each other? [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragon [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons D&D]] can emulate everything in the "Science Fiction" setting above without breaking a sweat. And you could pick any item out of the "Fantasy" side and find a whole [[ScifiCounterpart sci-fi series built around it]].
3rd Apr '13 8:17:17 AM Paradisesnake
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But what do you do when [[MagicFromTechnology Sufficiently Advanced Technology]] and [[{{Magitek}} Sufficiently Advanced Magic]] are equally indistinguishable from each other? D&D can emulate everything in the "Science Fiction" setting above without breaking a sweat. And you could pick any item out of the "Fantasy" side and find a whole [[ScifiCounterpart sci-fi series built around it]].

to:

But what do you do when [[MagicFromTechnology Sufficiently Advanced Technology]] and [[{{Magitek}} Sufficiently Advanced Magic]] are equally indistinguishable from each other? D&D [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragon D&D]] can emulate everything in the "Science Fiction" setting above without breaking a sweat. And you could pick any item out of the "Fantasy" side and find a whole [[ScifiCounterpart sci-fi series built around it]].
3rd Apr '13 8:13:39 AM Paradisesnake
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Even if we could clearly tell the improbable from the impossible, that wouldn't be enough. Franchise/StarTrek is Sci''Fi'' despite having seemingly impossible PsychicPowers and heaping amounts of AppliedPhlebotinum (the transporter in particular is ''way'' out there); earthborn dragons are fantasy, most of the time, despite being merely improbable, not impossible.

to:

Even if we could clearly tell the improbable from the impossible, that wouldn't be enough. Franchise/StarTrek is Sci''Fi'' Sci-''Fi'' despite having seemingly impossible PsychicPowers and heaping amounts of AppliedPhlebotinum (the transporter in particular is ''way'' out there); earthborn dragons are fantasy, most of the time, despite being merely improbable, not impossible.
23rd Mar '13 8:50:15 AM DoctorNemesis
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One of the original (and still the most useful) definitions of the difference was that Science Fiction is about the social consequences of improbable events or technologies, whereas Fantasy is just about telling a good story. (David Eddings summed it up best: "They get all bogged down in telling you how the watch works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story.") While more clear-cut than most definitions, this one does place some works of fiction in the opposite category to the one they are most commonly associated with, for example ''StarWars'' would be definitely in the Fantasy category. Then again Star Wars ''does'' have ghosts and sorceresses, so...

to:

One of the original (and and still the most useful) useful definitions (albeit a biased one, seeing as it clearly implies superiority of one form over another, something that is ... heavily contended, shall we say) of the difference was that Science Fiction is about the social consequences of improbable events or technologies, whereas Fantasy is just about telling a good story. (David Eddings summed it up best: "They get all bogged down in telling you how the watch works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story.") While more clear-cut than most definitions, this one does place some works of fiction in the opposite category to the one they are most commonly associated with, for example ''StarWars'' would be definitely in the Fantasy category. Then again Star Wars ''does'' have ghosts and sorceresses, so...
30th Jan '13 10:52:05 AM Xtifr
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Another complicating factor is that some writers [[NewWeird deliberately aim to be unclassifiable]], while other try to pass the work off as being in a different genre. When ScienceFiction was fashionable, one way to sell Fantasy was to say it was on a lost colony - just add a couple of wrecked spaceships and claim all the magic was really LostTechnology.

to:

Another complicating factor is that some writers [[NewWeird [[NewWaveScienceFiction deliberately aim to be unclassifiable]], while other try to pass the work off as being in a different genre. When ScienceFiction was fashionable, one way to sell Fantasy was to say it was on a lost colony - just add a couple of wrecked spaceships and claim all the magic was really LostTechnology.
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