This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Xander77: Changed "Hebrew names work that way" to "A few Hebrew names used to work that way". Because even if you do run into a "Zeev Ben David" these days, there's a good name his father isn't called David.
Looney Toons: Actually, "Tyr Anasazi of Kodiak Pride out of Victoria by Barbarossa" doesn't end in "multiple patronymics", it ends in a statement of parentage. The usage "out of X by Y" usually means (in animal breeding circles) that Y sired the child on X. So Tyr's parents are Victoria and Barbarossa.
Morgan Wick: Is it part of the actual name? If so, it's still a patronymic.
Looney Toons: No, it's not. A patronymic is, quite literally, "name of the father". This is both parents, a statement of breeding stock.
Baranxi: I changed that part a bit because two ancestor-derived names hardly make it the most extravagant (look at some Arab patronymic chains), and technically, it's a combination of patronymic and matronymic. And yes, it counts as those, as a patronymic is any name derived from the father's name. This just differs a bit from the usual "son of" structure.
Morgan Wick: The article is/was being used for a bit more than that. It almost seems to be being used for a discussion of alien names in general.
Inyssius: I think we should rename the article (or split it into patronymic/locative/whatever if it wouldn't end up as a bunch of stubs) to do our part preserving the english language.
Janitor: In case you haven't run across one these before, Inyssius, what we do for this sort of thing is model the proposed split in discussion. Like this:
Patronymic
< The text that should stay here > < ... >
< Some text about that > < ... >
< In case that needs some text > < ... >
...then there are some fist fights resulting in the new entries. ;-)
RedBeardSean: Rather than use the term originative for Hammond of Texas, et al., IIRC the appropriate classification is a locative byname.
Norwegian Guy: No patronymics in Scandinavia for three generations.
Scrounge: Would a variant that gives rank/title and allegiance count? "Air Commander Starscream of the Decepticon Battle Fleet," for example?
Zephid: Are any of those Starscream's father's name?
Doctor Worm: Just removed a couple of "exceptions", which were just examples of normal naming conventions - one Western and one East Asian. That's not an exception because this is not a hard and fast rule.
Zephid: I was under the impression that patronymics don't necessarily replace given family names, though they might have at earlier points in history. Hell, when you think about it, some last names in English are derivative patronyms (Jameson being "son of James" and so on). In Doctor Zhivago or The Brothers Karamazov, the characters still retain last names, they're just almost never used. Using someone's patronym in a culture which has them is a sign of respect, and omitting a patronym when addressing someone a sign of familiarity of intimacy.
Baranxi: A bit of showing my work: Patronymics (and to a lesser extent matronymics) technically don't replace family names, but are generally a common source for them. Some cultures which later adopted surnames as we define them retained additional patronymics, though. And then there are Icelanders, which almost only use patronymics.
- Ak, forgot one other point: In Iceland, you do not necessarily use a person patronym when addressing them. This is why it is perfectly valid to call Björk Björk if you ever meet her.
Chris M.: Deleted "King Under the Mountain" from the example of Thorin Oakenshield's patronymic, as Thorin's grandfather Thror was never King Under the Mountain. Thror's father Dain was King when Smaug attacked, killing Dain and scattering the dwarves. The "Here of old was Thror, King Under the Mountain" statement found on the map of Erebor refers to an *earlier* Thror, who was Thorin's ancestor.
Ayalaof Borg: Xev/Zev of Lexx had the last name 'Bellringer', which was mentioned at least as often as her birthplace.
What is the distinction between this trope and I Am X, Son of Y? If there is one, the I Am X, Son of Y-article does not properly say what distinguishes it from a simple patronymic.
