This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Seth:I would dissagree with
When done poorly can come across as a(n):
- Aloof Big Brother
- Ineffectual Loner
As both are valid character types, perhaps rephrasing or removing the distinction?
Earnest: Yeah, a change to something like "When not the protagonist" or even "When played as an antagonist" would probably be better.
Thanks for the suggestions in the other page, I'll try to add some more differences between The Stoic and The Quiet One. Should I really cut out the examples? Though the stoic is kind of an archetype for tropes it does have enough differences that it ought to merit a few (or at least the subversion at the bottom?).
Thanks for the input! :D
Seth: Are there any examples here that aren't covered by one of the sub tropes? (Also are you sure Jerk with a Heart of Gold Fits Here?)
Earnest: Well, you have a point. Most of the examples on the list I know about directly can fall into a subtrope, the main reason I'm lobbying for them being here is that a lot of them are plain old jerks. The best way to describe them (Alex Rowe, Amon) is that they're badass longcoats who disdain emotion and frank up front answers, instead going for indirect answers and soloing ocasionally. Hmm... maybe I should refine that into a trope and funnel the examples there?
On the Jerk with a Heart of Gold: Definetly needs to be there, a lot of the Stoics are quiet more to be cool and standoffish than anything else, often being outright rude to others. But if they're leads then they're actually decent people underneath (just too demanding/perfectionist for others' tastes).
Earnest: I've switched it from Heroes to Characters, and will distribute the examples among the appropriate subtropes.
(random passer-by): What the description on the main page seems to be talking about is mainly what psychiatrists call "flat affect" or "blunted affect." It is a phenomenon associated with soldiers in general and veterans of heavy combat specifically in many cultures. References to it are much, much older than 1950s TV depictions of emotionless Wild West gunslingers. American combat journalists in the Second World War spoke of the "thousand-yard stare." I have read oral histories of the Mexican Revolution where some retired mercenary would speak of someone he'd worked with as having had "the cold eye." It probably goes back much further.
Earnest: Kind of like Shellshock then, or was that specific to WWI vets? While I was going more for the "stoicism as an affectation" rather than lifestyle choice with the writeup, that's an angle I hadn't intended to cover, though it's probably worth at least mentioning stoicism as a result of plot trauma. It kind of overlaps with Heroic BSoD, actually. Run it by YKTTW, it may be tropeworthy in and of itself.
(random passer-by): "Shell shock" was the World War I era term for cases of severe acute PTSD that were so severe that the person was physically exhausted, emotionally exhausted, basically in shock, and at least temporarily unable to function. In World War II and Korea they called it "battle fatigue." This is not quite the same thing as the distant stare and lack of outward emotion that the trope describes.
Ununnilium: The entry seems to refer to way more than two kinds of Stoics.
Smokie: Well, you know, tropes evolve.
Raposa: It's possible that part of the reason why this shows up in anime a lot is because of the value the Japanese culture places on restraint.
