This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Lale: Are all female Aces Mary Sue?
Fencedude: Why was the Honor Harrington entry deleted? I mean...I love the series to death, but it was pretty damn accurate of the way things stand right now in the books with her.
Chuckg: Because it wasn't accurate. Honor's marksmanship and swordsmanship talents were listed as an example of instant skill mastery out of nowhere, when that's not actually how it worked in the series. Every combat skill she has, she's practiced for years. This is specifically pointed out every time she shows a 'new' one, and the timeline of the series has more than enough years off-screen between novels to fit in the practice time. Also, Honor's love of exercise, rough sports, and martial arts has been a consistent character trait since book one, so its hardly out-of-character for her to spend her spare time punching, shooting, and stabbing things.
And when I made a slight modification to the Honor Harrington entry a couple hours ago to point out the above (in considerably less words than I used just now), I came back less than an hour later to find out that someone had deleted it. Not answered it, not left it alone, but took it right out of there just because whoever they were, they didn't want to hear it.
At which point I went 'Fine, if you're going to be *that* way about it, I'll just take out the entire damn Honor Harrington section. Either both sides of the story are going up or none of them are. The trope in question has enough examples anyway.'
Fencedude: Ok, that makes sense.
Ununnilium: ...it wasn't deleted, it was (IMHO) organically worked into the entry. A trope isn't a debate, and you don't do point/counterpoint. I took "Counterpoint: Her expertise in these areas is set up as a plausible Ret Con, given that she's had decades' worth of expended lifespan to be practicing these skills offstage, was actually practicing them offstage all along, and has from the very beginning been written with an Amazon-esque interest in learning as many different combat arts as she possibly can" and made it into "On the other had, she has had an artificially extended lifespan in which to practice her many skills and build up her reputation." If you think that's inadequate, you can add to it, but...
So It Begins: I'm idly curious: Is that Magic card from one of the Un sets? Silver2195: No, just a mockup.
Alan: I think Yami Yugi from Yugioh fits it the trope pretty well, with the expection that Yugi himself is pretty much aware, okay and takes advantage of it.
Lale: Too evil and unhinged.
Cassy: Shouldn't we mention in the description that TheAce is often but not always extremely Badass? I can see a pattern here, many of these characters are totally gar :).
Adam850: This needs some cleanup. This character is seldom a main character. He shows up maybe for an episode or two, is awesome in all ways, then has to be moving on. Otherwise, as the page says, that character is a Marty Stu or a Parody Sue. Remember: supporting character.
TBeholder: how about criteria?
I can propose functional one: "If it was RPG, would this character be most likely munchkin's PC running wild or GM's sledgehammer designed to show P Cs they aren't coolest and sharpest guys here?" First is Sue, second is Ace.
Various Things: Can this article's illustration be a picture of Ace Rimmer? With the caption "What a guy"? Pleeeaase?
Mr Brownstone: Well, I did, but then someone changed it back to "The Kid". Surely Ace Rimmer is more recognisable than some character from an obscure card game?
halfmillennium: I'd second that. Apart from the fact he's likely the Trope Namer or Trope Maker, how many people know who 'Kid' is? Anyone agree?
Janitor: I put in a no-image notice. It's not worth the hassle to have an image. By the way, this image
◊ is awful. It's blurry.
McJeff: This is lame, and stupid. The Magic Card The Kid image has been here for years without any problems, and now because a few Red Dwarf fans want their character in the picture we have an admin mandate that there is to be no picture? Weak.
