This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Ununnilium: Since Granny isn't a subversion - she exemplifies this trope.
The Scorpion proposes that each Daimyo will call his greatest warrior in, and give him a task. The one whose warrior does not hesitate, loses. 'Wait, what? Doesn't that mean the Scorpions lost because they died without hesitation?
Seth: Quote time
That one summs up reason for the trope and is a cool back and fourth or...
- Giles: "But I've sworn to protect this sorry world, and sometimes that means saying and doing what other people can't... they shouldn't have to."
From earlier in the episode, a little gem most people miss its Giles' justification for shooting the dog.
Personally i'm partial to the second quote which doth the tropes prefer?
Ununnilium: They're both good, but I prefer the second one.
Chuckg: Edited the entry a bit to reflect Ben's actual lack of innocence — but also to acknowledge that Giles didn't know about it when he killed Ben, and that Buffy wouldn't have killed Ben even if she had known.
Seth: Looks like a Justifying Edit to me. We didn't say he was innocent just relatively innocent and it is too clunky this way. Reverting.
Avoid adding "Partially subverted/subverted because..." lines to an existing example. It comes off as a fan trying to say "no my favourite character would never do anything evil"
Lale: Heartily seconded!
grixit: why is this called Shoot The Dog? There are no dogs in the examples.
Grev: It's a play on Pet the Dog.
Seth: I thought it was from when someone puts a sick dog down and usually hides it from the child. Protecting them from the nastier side of life to preserve how they think. (I seem to remember a number of scenes where the father takes the sick/old dog outside with the rifle/shotgun you hear a blast ect ect...) *Shrugs* either works i guess.
Cambias: I don't get the George Michael song reference.
Silent Hunter: It's just a reference to the fact there's a George Michael song of the same name. It has nothing to do with the trope.
Cambias: Then why is it there?
Silent Hunter: They have the same name, that's all.
Tanto: Huh. And here I thought it was a Of Mice and Men reference.
YYZ: Yeah, but the song and the trope don't really have anything to do with each other. I think we're better off without the reference.
Aubri: I don't really see how Old Yeller is an example of this trope, much less the ur-example. It's more of a subversion, since Travis IS the protagonist... nobody is shooting the dog in his place. His father is making him do it in order to teach him a lesson about pragmatism.
Ununnilium: This is a good point; unfortunately, I've never seen Old Yeller. Anyone who has want to weigh in?
Lale: His father didn't make him do it; his father isn't involved in the incident in any way. In the book, he shoots the dog right after he's been bitten by a rabid wolf, hurrying through the scene like it's too painful to remember (the book is told in Travis POV). In the movie, refusing to give up hope, he waits until his dog is showing symptoms, and the scene is played for all the sadness and drama it's worth. Like the other examples, it's something that has to be done, however painful it is to do. The Neon Genesis Evangelion example is also committed by the protagonist, BTW.
MikoGalatea: I thought the page was getting on the long side, so I've just reorganised it by medium. Sadly, I'm not familiar with the source material for all the examples, so a lot of them have been left unsorted; if anyone could help put them in their proper places, I'd greatly appreciate it. :D
Fire Walk: Doing some pruning of natter. And examples which are irrelevnt except for the presence of dogs:
- Heartless is perhaps a little strong, since the dub was so heavy on ramming into our heads the fact that "This is the only way her clan can be restored, you're restarting the species, and she's not really dead because noone who dies is said to be dead in the dub, but it still sucks.
- They still kept the scene where the trees ate those soldiers from Molly's planet, and they made it pretty obvious from Rouge's reaction that they were all dead/dying. Give them a teeny-weeny bit of credit.
- A teeny bit, then. But they were portrayed as morally ambiguous in the previous episode so killing them was more "justified".
- Heartless is perhaps a little strong, since the dub was so heavy on ramming into our heads the fact that "This is the only way her clan can be restored, you're restarting the species, and she's not really dead because noone who dies is said to be dead in the dub, but it still sucks.
- Subverted in the movie A Boy and His Dog when Vic, Quilla June and Blood are all starving after their successful escape, but Vic and his dog eat Quilla June, instead.
- More of a Kick the Dog moment comes from Emil Blonsky in the recent Hulk movie where he literally Shoots the dog. Has nothing to do with the definition here, but he did do it.
- Waste of a valuable resource really. A man who'd suicide to prove a point would probably suicide for good reason too.
- Not really; the rest of the daimyos now have to follow suit, meaning they will all die, or be proven honorless (which, in context, would actually be worse - especially for their people). Also, it is extremely likely that the other warriors - bodyguards, actually - will hesitate, out of surprise if nothing else, meaning the Scorpions win... and you have to assume he had planned for this, which the rest had not. So the other Clans are in chaos, and the Scorpions have proven themselves to have the most superior bodyguards... for the cost of two lives.
JET73L: Is there anything that can be done to reroute Kicking The Dog With A Bullet to Kick the Dog or Rape The Dog? People keep linking Shoot the Dog when a villain shoots a dog for no reason other than to show that he's really a villain. Or has this already been discussed?
i8246i: Sorry, in no way does Dirty Jobs fit here, so its example goes bye bye.
