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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Pride/Hubris: From YKTTW

Earnest: It seems appropriate that I post it here, this is my 201st trope. ^_^

Sunder The Gold: Pride has a bad reputation because there ISN'T anything good about it. Instead, the word "pride" is used in place of other concepts that seem similar on the surface.

Munhcer: I vote someone changes the name of this Trope so it's easier to link to.

For example, children. If a parent is truly proud about his kid's accomplishments, he's taking all the credit for it, by whatever reasoning — genetics or upraising. The reverse is when the parent is satisfied or honored by his child's accomplishments — happy for the child for the kid's achievements, and touched that the child made the decisions and commitment to make the achievement.

There's arrogant pride in one's country, and there's being satisfied about being a citizen, and being honored to be a citizen.

Pride is arrogance. The other feeling is akin to awe.

Wellington: There's a reason 'pride,' 'arrogance,' 'vainglory,' and 'awe' are distinct words. Arrogance is a specific sort of pride, a sense of superiority. But to quote the Oxford English Dictionary, there's also "A consciousness of what befits, is due to, or is worthy of oneself or one's position; self-respect; self-esteem, esp. of a legitimate or healthy kind or degree."

If confronted with a student who puts their name on a deliberately shoddy piece of work, I might say, "Have some pride, man!" This isn't awe, arrogance, presumptuousness, or even entitlement. It's a willingness to assign worth to oneself and one's work. The good, but self-denigrating, character who discovers his pride is less common, at least in Western media, than the villain who has far too much of it, but both types exist.
  • Johnnye E: That's one meaning, which generally requires a specification of what the object of the pride is - this is about "the sin of Pride". If someone is described as "proud" - not of anything in particular, just generally proud - it's a bad thing.


Guest Of Dishonour: The woman in the picture's kind of hot.

Goldfritha: Kinda hard to paint an allegorical representation of Vanity and make her ugly. . . . ("Vanity" by Frank Cowper for the idly curious)