This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Mr Etaoin Shrdlu: Is new Laconic version of Laconic Wiki good?
W.W: Win!
W4E: Indeed.
Leylicite: Seems cool. Explains things quickly.
Satanic Hamster: So this will give us an excuse to type like historical Spartans? Cool.
Andrew: Does it seem strange that the Laconic Wiki has two quotes?
Koveras: True enough. Cut?
Rissa: Cut.
Rothul: Seriously guys, it's kind of funny, but there seems to be absolutely no reason why it all can't be condensed down to a single page, rather than clogging the wiki with hundreds of unnecessary, less-comprehensive pages that only make sense to people who've read the full article anyways..
Jotun of Boredom: Comment was not laconic.
Koveras: Objection declined. =P
Rothul: Sigh... "Unwieldly. Convoluted. Compress?"
W.W: Do it.
Meta Four: Look at Main.Chronic Hero Syndrome. You see that L icon above the article, right next to the Discussion icon? That icon links directly to Laconic.Chronic Hero Syndrome. The wiki software automatically adds that icon link to every article on the main wiki with a Laconic twin.
That kind of interconnectivity is not possible if we're going to lump all the Laconic articles onto one page.
Black Charizard: Would it be useful to link here from the Tropes Of Legend?
Rothul: I'm not saying that the L icon isn't a neat system and/or feature, and I'm not saying I don't understand how to use it, (and frankly, Meta Four, no offense, but I kind of resent the assumption I wouldn't) but having all these separate pages with little actual content seems a poor use of hosted webspace, and makes searching for an individual trope slightly more difficult (as at its furthest extent, every in-name search string will now appear twice). Why can't it, for instance, just be put as a hottip at the top of each page? Laconic Def. or the stinger? After all, the majority of these Laconic pages don't make much sense without reading the full article anyways.
If the majority opinion is that it's not worth complaining about, and if these extra pages don't actually add to the hosting cost, then I immediately retract concerns. Could someone more aware of the hosting situation comment?
Or to put it Laconically: "Nice Feature. Most Efficient implementation?"
Ununnilium: I disagree. I think the ability to jump to Laconic pages from main pages is well worth whatever extra overhead there is (and there's probably some, at least). As well, it just looks better; having the single sentence on the page by itself gives the concept much more clearly than a smooshed-together list. Plus, it gives the ads an extra pageview, which probably defrays a certain amount of the aforementioned overhead.
Laconic version: Easier, prettier, more profitable.
Fast Eddie: Pages are cheap. Short pages, cheaper still.
Rothul: Point well taken. Objection rescinded.
Inkki Bookman: I wasted 12 hours adding links to the all the Laconic tropes while not realising that the i symbol does the same thing.
Fast Eddie: Pretty good chance most readers don't know what that i symbol does, so the work is not wasted. Thanks for making the effort!
L: That's hilarious, because I just spent 0.5 hours removing most of the links.
Fast Eddie: Well, stop, already. The back links serve a really good purpose.
Inkki Bookman: I lost the will and the time needed to put those links back up, if only those symbols were more noticable on my 1280x800 widescreen, they are easily missed.
Insanity Prelude: And then I misread this discussion and removed more of them. Oops.
Rissa: Putting them all back in. And also moving some pages. Why, oh why can't people cope with apostrophes?
Inkki Bookman: I'm glad that people have decided to keep the links to the main page, I am even glader still I don't have to redo them myself.
Inkki Bookman: The way this list is growing, I think we will have to divide it up soon.
Koveras: I suggest simply splitting it up alphabetically, like the Title Bin.
Rissa: What would that do to the index?
Koveras: Uh, good point. I guess the entries would have to be updated... But hey, I didn't expect it to grow so fast, so I couldn't see that beforehand, could I? :-/
Fast Eddie: Hold off. This is a perfect place to test automatic indexing, where the index page builds itself. I'll run a test in the small hours tonight. It should give an alphabetic list in three columns.
//Later: Here is a mock up
of what an auto-generated index page will look like. Comments? Brickbats?
Koveras: Looking cool.
Fast Eddie: Okay, navigation is hooked up so that the nav bars in Laconic Wiki don't rely on the index page. Next step is to have the list updated auto-magically when a new article is created for the index. That is underway. // later: That's in. Please make a note of any oddities in navigation you come across while looking through and using Laconic Wiki.
Inkki Bookman: Should TV shows and other series really be included in the Laconic Wiki?
Koveras: I think the consensus was that this namespace is for tropes only.
Midonin: In that case, there's quite a few shows showing up here that need to be cleaned out.
prescience: Some links in the automatically generated index are broken.
Caphi: Calling for the removal of all series from the page. You can delete the entry, but Fast Eddie's nice autoindexing system won't remove them from the index, so it has to be done from the back.
Fast Eddie: Why? Remove the series entries, I mean.
Koveras: See two discussions above, with Inkki Bookman and Midonin.
Fast Eddie: Oh. Rats. There goes our chance of building a set of short lines for all pages that can be used as a description for search engines. Anyway. Cutlist the items to be removed. The cut-er will remove them from the Laconic index-inator.
Doctor Nemesis: Would a separate page for Laconic-ized series pages be out of the question?
movie007: I'd be in favour of the idea.
zxynoxia: It would help to end the confusion.
Koveras: Summary/ namespace to differentiate? ^^
Fast Eddie: Help me understand the objection to series pages having a Laconic entry? Laconic is Laconic, methinks.
Koveras: Well, we sometimes have works that have the same titles as tropes... An example would be Heavy Metal and Heavy Metal, just off the top of my head...
Bufuman: So how does one add a trope to the index? I made up a Laconic page for Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny! quite some time ago, and I see it's still not on the index. Can I add it myself, or does Fast Eddie or someone have to do it?
Koveras: It'd seem that the autoindexing feature has trouble with hash-titles (or whatever's the technical term for those pseudotitles starting with P in URL in containing non-alphanumeric symbols). Should go to Fast Eddie with this.
Anonymous Apathy: Probably obvious. No adding to the main page... how to add new individual pages?
Rissa: Make a redlink like this: New Page Name Goes Here. Then edit the new page, and be sure to put the Laconic Wiki index markup at the bottom. The main page will update itself automatically.
Koveras: Alternatively, go to the main trope page you want to laconize, then replace the "/Main/" part in its URL with "/Laconic/" and press Enter/Return. An (empty) Laconic Wiki page will open, which you can then edit according to Rissa's instructions above. That's how I usually do it.
Luc: Current policy, as I understand it, regarding Laconic series, as a reference for future would-be cutlisters: The key phrase is "Avoid series", not "No series"; in other words, if you can sum up what a series is known for in one sentence without degrading into Gushing About Shows You Like, Take That!, or Complaining About Shows You Dont Like, that's a valid Laconic entry; take Triangle Heart 3 Sweet Songs Forever: It's only really known for being what Nahona spun off of. That's the best way I know to state it.
Janitor: One of the many reasons we're not too big on rules. Lots of lawyering back and forth, which will be ignored by persons not involved, anyway. Oughta just let the Laconics fly for whatever, rather than stirring up a bunch of angst for no good reason.
Scooter007: Technical question: since we don't manually edit the Laconic Index, how would one add a Laconic entry? Would it just be a matter of creating a link (perhaps temporary) from a different page to the new Laconic entry and then using said link to access the new entry for edit?
Koveras: See Anonymous Apathy's question above. :)
Peteman: Are we adding Tropers now? Because if we are, I am putting forward the motion to have different Laconic sections for Tropes, Tropers, and Works.
Koveras: I am in favor of just letting people do whatever they please, as long as they upkeep the basic principles: brevity and clarity.
