This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Seth: "Named After Joss Whedon"
Why? I don't see an example that he is responsible for or a YKTTW to explain the title.
Scifantasy: Added the explanation. (The term started in Buffy fandom, actually.)
- for instance, that Tenchi's Bumbling Dad Nobuyuki was a Muggle, instead of being in on the Masquerade with Katsuhito\Yosho.
Binaroid: I think that's right on the border of My Name Is Prince Darien and "Funny Aneurysm" Moment; a change in the English dub dialog that somehow tied into later plot developments.
Morgan Wick: Did the dub postdate the later plot developments in the original? Something which a lot more dubbers and anime adaptations of manga should do, meaning make sure your changes don't conflict with later developments you'll have to deal with later?
arromdee: This one wasn't actually new for the new OAV series. Word of God outside the series (specifically the Tenchi 101) stated that Noboyuki was a descendant of Yosho, nearly a decade before the newest OA Vs. (The 101 is floating around fandom as an incomplete translation.)
i would just like to know what it's like to be jossed? that came out wrong, but i think you know what i mean
Tabby: "Hunh, I was so sure about that, but no big deal" if it was just a theory, annoying and disheartening if it was a fic. Sometimes if the idea's really awesome or has captured your attention fully you're willing to plow through, slap an AU label on it, and finish it anyway, but I'm such a stickler for canon that I usually just end up giving up and abandoning the story halfway through. It's why I refuse to fanwrite for Lost and Heroes (although I did cave on the Heroes thing over the hiatus).
osh: "Three words: Star Trek Enterprise." I know these non-examples are supposed to be clever but they're not really helpful since they don't explain anything if you don't already get the reference.
((Jack Cain))Anyone know what the reverse of this is?
xwingace: Validated? After all, if you don't get Jossed, but rather what you thought would happen actually does happen, that means that you were right. But I don't think there's actually a fandom term for that. Unless it's 'The creators were reading my mind', or something like that.
Etrangere: Canonized? :)
Document N: It's on the page now - I Knew It! and Sure, Why Not?.
Sikon: Where did Enterprise go against canon? I was under the impression that it only went against what was presumed by fans to be canon, but was never stated outright.
Tanuki: No, you're totally right. I once went over the series twice looking for anything that explicitly went against canon, and found nothing. I had no life in college.
Obsidian: Actually, they did violate canon one single time that I can confirm. The ubiquity of cloaking devices in 'Enterprise'. Even the Romulans had one. Yet, 100 years later, during 'Balance of Terror', Spock and company are shocked to see that the Romulans have developed a cloaking device, as the technology was supposed to be impossible.
Fast Eddie: Please don't put long quotes at the top.
Cassius335: Squashing them into a box on the left hand side looks much, much worse.
Fast Eddie: You're right, it does look better without the quote at all.
- Although there's more room for it in the others, this troper finds it bizarre that anyone would be Jossed by the Cortana one, as she didn't show any signs of having "ulterior motives", and the idea she must have had them seems to come solely from the scheming and devious A.I.s of Bungie's earlier Marathon series.
- This troper felt her apparent "betrayal" scene from the Stinger sequence at the end of Halo 2 is what caused a self-imposed jossing.
- This troper read that scene as her trying to get useful information out of the Gravemind — a sensible course of action, and one of the only ones available to her at that point. Given the response of the people who read it as a "betrayal", she's guessing she read it right, but hasn't played Halo 3 yet.
Nezumi: Dumping this section of the Halo 3 Jossing entry to the discussion, where it really belongs.
Janitor Just pulling some natter ...
- Maybe the later seasons, but the first faltered due to actually ignoring canonical facts, such as the first contact with the Klingons. The first contact with them was supposed to directly lead to the cold war in the original series. This was mentioned in an actual canonical Next Generation episode. The pilot to Enterprise shows nothing of the kind.
- And that's actually a good example of that sort of thing: the Next Generation episode took place over 200 years after the events in question, so Picard's view might have been how he looked at things in retrospect. For comparison, consider the real Cold War between the US and allies and the USSR. Depending on who you ask, it started in 1945 (after World War Two), 1917 with the Russian Revolution, 1947 when it was first used in a speech, 1948 when the Berlin Blockade (and subsequent Airlift) began, or even back in the 19th Century with the "Great Game" between the United Kingdom and Russia in Central Asia.
- Actually, I can think of one time where they did, without question, violate canon: Cloaking devices. The very first time we see a cloaking device, on a Romulan ship in TOS' 'Balance of Terror', Spock and the Enterprise crew are stunned, because the technology had never been encountered before, and in fact was supposed to be impossible. Yet, in 'Enterprise', set over 100 years earlier, not only are cloaking devices everywhere, but the Romulans have one, long before they were supposed to.
- Maybe the later seasons, but the first faltered due to actually ignoring canonical facts, such as the first contact with the Klingons. The first contact with them was supposed to directly lead to the cold war in the original series. This was mentioned in an actual canonical Next Generation episode. The pilot to Enterprise shows nothing of the kind.
Removed these from the Avatar examples; only the Jet example actually qualifies.
- Zuko's mother died in childbirth ("...I was lucky to be born.") — Jossed by "Zuko Alone."
- Katara would heal Zuko's scar — Jossed by the Season 2 finale.
- Zuko's sister Azula, when first announced as a second season character, was portrayed by many to be a kind, sympathetic heroine... Jossed by the first few minutes of the second season. May have been Jossed as early as the season one episode "The Storm": In a flashback to Zuko's Start of Darkness, Azula can be seen among the crowd of onlookers. She has a front row seat to his humilation
◊...and she appears to be enjoying every second of it.
Meems: How? How do the above examples not qualify? Seriously, I'm confused here. Whether it was in the show proper or via Word of God, they were still Jossed.
Lale: Maybe because the last two were jsut plot predictions that didn't happen, but the first there should still count.
Fast Eddie: Moving out some natter
- Star Trek Enterprise. Nearly every episode went against some bit of fanon, but careful examination reveals the writers never went against Canon, with near Magnificent Bastard precision.
- Actually, I can think of one time where they did, without question, violate canon: Cloaking devices. The very first time we see a cloaking device, on a Romulan ship in TOS' 'Balance of Terror', Spock and the Enterprise crew are stunned, because the technology had never been encountered before, and in fact was supposed to be impossible. Yet, in 'Enterprise', set over 100 years earlier, not only are cloaking devices everywhere, but even the Romulans have one. Granted, that is probably the only time they DID violate canon.
- I don't remember any cloaking devices. Holographic camouflage, yes, lots of that. But not cloaking devices.
- Actually, I can think of one time where they did, without question, violate canon: Cloaking devices. The very first time we see a cloaking device, on a Romulan ship in TOS' 'Balance of Terror', Spock and the Enterprise crew are stunned, because the technology had never been encountered before, and in fact was supposed to be impossible. Yet, in 'Enterprise', set over 100 years earlier, not only are cloaking devices everywhere, but even the Romulans have one. Granted, that is probably the only time they DID violate canon.
Malimar: Re-added the original bit, minus the natter. It made me laugh, and it certainly fits the trope.
The Spoom: Doctor Horribles Sing Along Blog seems to fit the non-TV Tropes definition (as pointed out on the page) but not the definition of Anyone Can Die, since only Penny really dies. Does this need a new trope?
Malimar: removed DHSAB because there's only the one episode so far, and its three parts were released in fast enough sequence that I doubt there was time for any fan theories to spring up in the first place, let alone be Jossed. Not everything Joss Whedon does is automatically a Joss.
- Dr Horribles Sing Along Blog: Dear God.
- This falls under the non-TV Tropes definition, I believe.
DenisMoskowitz: I'm amazed that the Captain Blastoid example is in here - that was my team that got Jossed, and I wasn't the one to add it to this page.
Document N: Anyone else think we need a subtrope of this for when the Jossing is done deliberately because the author doesn't want todo anything that was predicted in advance, sometimes for legal reasons and usually at the expense of the story? Currently the examples seem to be split between here and Schrödinger's Gun.
Arsenal Tengu: Anyone else amused that there are no examples from Joss Whedon shows here?
BritBllt: I've always been kinda confused by the trope name, since I don't remember his shows ever doing this. I'm sure lots of individual Epileptic Trees were killed each season, but I can't think of any that rose to the point of fanon, only to be knocked down by some season-starting swerve. Maybe the "Giles is the First" thing, but that was more of a Red Herring, since the question was an in-universe one that came to a dramatic head.
Doyle: the ur-example from a Joss show, and where the term 'Jossed' comes from, AFAIK, is the scene from Fool For Love where Drusilla sires Spike. Until that point fans had assumed for three seasons that Angelus did the deed (since Spike calls him his sire twice).
