This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
From You Know That Thing Where:
Shin Majin: Eeh...I'm pretty sure Dracula from Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia doesn't belong here. Sure, he requires a special trick to beat him, perhaps making him a bit of a Puzzle Boss, but you are NOT supposed to lose the fight. Anyone object to me editing him out?
Ununnilium: Here's a Boss Battle trope I haven't seen come up yet: The boss you have to lose to, as part of the plot. They'll do 9999 damage with each attack and be indestructible, or somesuch.
J Random User: I suggested that once, but nothing ever came of it. Some examples include Bowser in the beginning of Paper Mario and Saturos and Menardi at the beginning of Golden Sun. As those examples indicate, I've usually seen it as a confrontation with the final boss at the beginning of the game.
Ununnilium: Yeah. Maybe something like Adamantium Boss.
Miquonranger03: While I was playing Mother 3, I was afraid I'd forgotten to grind enough. My fears were eventually realized. I died while fighting the first of the hybrid creatures, thinking it was a Hopeless Boss Fight. It was actually a (literally) Nintendo Hard boss. I kicked myself.
Seth And this is where i realise i play far too many RPGs...
Tulling A variation of this: In "Knights of the old republic" there is a mid-game battle with the bad guy in which the player can defeat him but the game treats it as though he was too strong and you had to retreat. It worked like this: An area criss-crossed with corridors, player's companions disabled with magic. Boss shows up, player hurts him badly while taking little damage self, he turn invisible, shows up a little bit later with replenished health, repeat a few times until sidekick/love interest shows up to "hold him off while the others retreat", they disappear behind a closing door. In short, a scenario in which the boss would be defeated if the game played by the normal rules, but he prevails by scripting.
Dark Sasami: Is the boss fight where you do have to win but the script acts as if you were losing afterward a different trope? Don't remember any specific examples, but I know I've run into a bunch of these. You beat the boss, then it goes to cutscene and it shows him unleashing some attack that knocks everybody down as you were losing after all.
Also, mention should be made of the boss that's invincible but, cruelly, doesn't do enough damage to make it clear that he's going to frickin' kill you. This is the Eater of Elixirs, against whom you waste all your good healing and attack items before you finally get crushed, throw down the controller, and then watch as it goes to cut scene instead of Game Over. Grr.
Ununnilium: Another example of the first one: Doomsday in the video game that was made based on the "Death of Superman" plotline from the comics. You beat him... and at the last moment he stands up and kills you with one punch before re-dying.
Morgan Wick: It's almost the opposite of Fake Difficulty, and not entirely unrelated.
Red Shoe: One of the Wing Commander games has a battle that's meant to be unwinnable, but they did this not by special-casing the battle, but just by making the fight so hard that they didn't think anyone could win it. Which meant that a really hardcore player could win it — in which case the game just ignored this fact and pretended that you had lost. Of course, using cheats to win a Hopeless Boss Fight will often send a game into some kind of seizure as it trys to work out how to cope.
Inyssius: Removed the Midgar Zolom because you could win, making it a kind of Bonus Boss when you first encounter it. Someone else could reinsert it if they feel like rewriting it's entry.
Andrew Leprich: Done.
EthanGilchrist: The page needs to be fixed on the bottom where it shows the previous and next entries. Can't do so from the regular editing interface (or at least not that I can see).
Ununnilium: I don't see anything wrong. What do you see, and what browser are you using? Edit: Oh, wait, Nerem fixed it.
Ununnilium: That Star Wars game example is confusing.
K.o.R: Regarding the "Sailor Moon: Another Story" one, I think it's actually Queen Beryl who smacks you for 9999 with the first attack; Mistress 9 is actually a fairly easy battle. Also: new example - in the "Magic Knight Rayearth" game there is a section where you, as Fuu, have to battle the manipulated Hikaru and Umi - the battle is really easy but if you win... then you lose because you just killed your friends. Found this out the hard way of course.
Fred M Sloniker: Removed the Freespace 2 entry. It is, in fact, possible to jump out of the system before the nova, if you're close enough to the jump node when you get the warning. This changes the ending slightly.
Da_Wrecka: The Millenia battle is slightly different in the Dreamcast version of the game, in that enough Gamesharking allows you to win; Not that the game cares, it carries on as if you were hit by the Zap spell. Still, I felt it was interesting enough to note, so I've added it as a sub-heading below the main Millenia entry.
Agent CH: The Earthbound example that was recently added, about the robot that the Runaway Five shut off for you, would that really count as an example of this? Sure, you don't finish it yourself storywise, but the Runaway Five don't show up until you deplete all of its HP anyway, so you're still beating it yourself and getting an extended monster death message, as opposed to holding out for a number of turns until it happens. Master Barf being defeated by Poo just back from training works the same, for the record.
Removed it anyway, since it's not actually an example.
djkates: Edited the Paper Mario example to make it a little less thread mode-ish. The version before the edit is below.
- Bowser, at the beginning and end of Paper Mario. The series makes a habit of having the final boss using some sort of powerup that the player is helpless against... until after a lenghty cutscene.
- Chapter Four of Paper Mario: TTYD features a hopeless boss fight against a ghost that has stolen Mario's identity. Interestingly, NEITHER Mario nor the ghost can hurt the other. As is usual in the trope, the only option is running (which you must do no less than three times to complete the chapter.)
- Also done in Chapter 3 of TTYD, where you have to lose to the Iron Clefts in order to obtain a party member (a Yoshi) who can actually damage them and allow you to go on with the game. I remember almost going mad with frustration before I realized this (hey, I was 12 and feeling stupid at the time!).
- This Troper (djkates) ended up with a particularly annoying case with this one. After I got the Yoshi, for some unexplained reason, the attack he should have been able to use against those Clefts didn't work. Luckily, resetting the game got things back to working the way they were supposed to.
- This editor remembers differently, I swear he was able to bypass my perfect dodge and hit me before I was able to run.
- Oh, he can hit you all he wants, and vice-versa. There's just no dealing of damage.
- Don't forget Tubba Blubba.
- Chapter Four of Paper Mario: TTYD features a hopeless boss fight against a ghost that has stolen Mario's identity. Interestingly, NEITHER Mario nor the ghost can hurt the other. As is usual in the trope, the only option is running (which you must do no less than three times to complete the chapter.)
Heh, Beatrix from FF 9 is on here twice. She shouldn't even be on here once, she's a Heads I Win, Tails You Lose and not this.
Raxis: Why is Golbez the Trope Picture? His battles are all entirely scripted (save one that you can win). You never get a chance to make it seem like you can fight him.
Cloudof Darkness: Under Star Ocean 2, and when I fought Shin, I did damage to him (gasp!). Although the battle still ended with 'Time Up' (or something to that effect), I did do damage to him, so he isn't invincible, just damn immortal >.>.
