This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Actually, Hannibal King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_King#Miscellanea)
would be the first vampire detective, I think. But I don't know if it really matters enough to edit...
Oz on Buffy, nice werewolf
(I beg to differ. Isn't Oz a nice guy who becomes a snarling killer werewolf? His werewolf persona is never nice—Gary)
But has anybody ever done a vampire show in which all the vampires are evil? Not Dark Shadows or Buffy or Ultraviolet...
//Kindred: The Embraced — the short-lived "World of Darkness" TV show that reached the air in 1996, maybe? — Looney Toons
//Kindred doesn't really count; World of Dimness vampires were not in general very nice. That was part of the whole overangst of the game, that you had to keep your secret and kill anyone who found out. — Croaker
My recollection of Ultraviolet is that, while they played on the possibility of Friendly Neighborhood Vampires quite a bit in order to get the ethical-debate-angst going, we never actually saw a genuine example. — Paul A
Citizen: I guess I'll post the Karin pic anyway, though there was a technicality that got me caught up... So cute I wanna ;_;
Fast Eddie: pulled out ... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/karin_cute_friendly_vampire.jpg The entry does not need a picture.
Ununnilium: Meh, it works, IMHO.
Citizen: =/
Seth: I liked it, maybe link the image behind the Karin example.
Ununnilium: Good idea. [...]
Fast Eddie: Nobody on the planet who is not a stone anime otaku has any idea what two girls cooking eggs has to do with vampires.
Citizen: You see, Eddie? The page is called "Friendly Neighborhood Vampires". It shouldn't be that hard to figure out that from the picture being there, with the caption "Cutest. Vampires. Ever.", that the girls within are vampires, with cuteness leading to friendliness. Seth and Ununnilium agree. You don't have to be a "stone otaku" to figure that out.
Fast Eddie: It works with the caption. I confess I'm getting a little knee-jerk-ish when I see an anime image on something that is cross-medium. May be a personal issue.
Man Without A Body: The whole point of the picture, though, is to instantly illustrate. I believe that the characters are vampires, but the picture doesn't say anything at all to anyone unfamiliar with the series in question. Which is why I'm going to change the image to The Count from Sesame Street unless anybody objects.
- Wraith_Magus: I object. Strongly. I love that picture. It makes the page for me. Maybe Karin has less viewership than Sesame Street, but you would need to be at least passingly familiar with The Count to understand why he is a Friendly Neighborhood Vampire, as well. The image from Karin, however, shows two characters who are portrayed as absolutely harmless even at first glance - and not only are they Dojikko material, but they are preparing blatantly non-blood-based food, as Karin is not a blood drinking vampire (or even much of a vampire at all). The entire point of the trope is that the character is a supposed monster, but is obviously not dangerous or monsterous in form at all, and in the picture in question, you apparently have to be told by the trope title that she is even a monster. New Media Are Evil alone is no reason to take it off.
Man Without A Body: This has nothing to do with New Media, as neither Sesame Street nor Karin is from a new medium. This is simply based on popular familiarity, and the fact that the Count is instantly recognizable as a vampire, but is also clearly harmless-looking. The egg girls aren't instantly recognizable as vampires at all (other than the caption and context). It's just a really obscure picture of two girls making eggs, and unless they're clearly vampires from the picture alone, then the image is completely irrelevent. I believe that they're examples - they may even be very good examples, despite your comment that she's not "much of a vampire at all" - but they should not be in the picture unless they're clearly visible as examples. Also, I'm shortening the page quote a little, so that it's more accessible to people who haven't read that book. The important bit is retained.
Wraith_Magus: The New Media thing is in response to what Fast Eddie said, where, "I confess I'm getting a little knee-jerk-ish when I see an anime image on something that is cross-medium. May be a personal issue." Anime is, effectively, new media to the West, and there is bias against it by those who don't watch it. I again strongly disagree with your argument, as, unless you are either terribly weak for nostalgia over your (very) early childhood, or have kids, The Count relies purely on recognition as a muppet to be seen for what it is. The point about Karin is her absolute inversion of virtually every vampire myth, and simply saying that you need to read the caption to get the joke if you don't know about the series would imply that a great deal of pages besides this one have inappropriate images on them. Take, say, Nanomachines, where you have to read halfway through the entry to understand what it's talking about (or The Calling Knows Where You Live ). It is actually better that the characters are not immediately identifiable as vampires, as that is part of the whole point - that they don't appear monsterous. Likewise, the Wholesome Crossdresser article should force you to rely on the article's title to understand that yes, the character in the article is a boy. Vampires have gone from the gargoyle-like disfigured Bram Stoker vampire to more attractive and sexy and less lethal and monsterous, reaching the logical conclusion of that - cute girls and pretty boys, some of which don't even suck blood at all. Karin, unlike Sesame Street, actually fits the trope by going into great depth about what a totally defanged vampire she really is, whereas The Count is just a pun they use to segue into basic math. I'd at least like to get some kind of response from someone besides Man Without A Body and Fast Eddie (who admits to bias against anime) against myself and three others before giving up on this picture because "it's not popular enough". Also, I should point out that it's bad faith for you to make such edits "unless someone protests", and then immediately revert it saying that my protesting doesn't matter.
GastonRabbit: I agree with Man Without A Body. I think this statement he made sums up the situation: "This is simply based on popular familiarity, and the fact that the Count is instantly recognizable as a vampire, but is also clearly harmless-looking. The egg girls aren't instantly recognizable as vampires at all (other than the caption and context)."
Wraith_Magus: However recognizable muppets might be, I still say that Karin is a much better demonstration of the overall point of the trope. Not only do the vampires in Karin more fully deconstruct, avert, or invert standard vampire tropes than the Count might, but unlike the Count's simple finger gesture and open mouth, the picture from Karin openly demonstrates their cuteness and harmlessness. Beyond that, one of the points of TVTropes is to help expose people to new shows they might be interested in that they otherwise might not hear of. If we start deleting pictures based upon popularity alone, how are we achieving that goal? Again, there are plenty of tropes that (justifiably) require looking at the caption to understand their relevance, to add to the handful I already pointed out, look at Fridge Logic.
GastonRabbit: Good point with Fridge Logic. The picture there really needed a caption, otherwise readers would wonder what a guy with his head stuck in a ceiling has to do with the subject.
Man Without A Body: I still think we should go with the Count. When people think of friendly vampires, he's the first thing that leaps into their heads. The picture we have now makes about as much sense as a picture of a brick with a caption that says "This brick is an example. I promise." The Count looks harmless and vampiric, clearly fulfilling both criteria, while the Karin girls are clearly harmless, but reliant on the caption to make any sense of it. And let me insist here that it has nothing to do with Karin being anime or manga or whichever it is. I have no objection to the picture at Ring of Fire, even though I have no idea what Mai-Hime is. It's just that the picture in question clearly shows the trope. All this picture does is say "Karin is somebody's favourite example." It doesn't make any sense if you're not familiar with it.
Wraith Magus: "When people think of friendly vampires, he's the first thing that leaps into their heads." Umm... No. Just... No. There are a tremendous number of examples of friendly vampires in the media that have nothing to do with Sesame Street. Just look at the size of this page's examples list. I'm fairly sure that the people who have put those examples in there didn't have to struggle to think of a friendly vampire besides one from a children's show that they likely never even watched. I used to watch Sesame Street, and I've completely forgotten he even existed until this came up. If obvious vampirism is such a heavy requirement of the image, why is obvious harmlessness not a requirement of the image? By cooking clearly non-blood related meals and being portrayed as completely cute, harmless, and without any trace of predatory nature, they are doing a far better job of demonstrating that they are "friendly" vampires than the count does.
Softspoken: While I'm certain this discussion ended a while ago, I think it's worth noting two things. One: the current picture / caption combo (which is three words. Honestly, how long does it take to read it?) is VERY clear that they are both vampires and friendly/harmless. Two: The Count of Sesame Street is not nearly popular enough to become trope namer worthy, which seems like the reason he's being pushed to replace the current picture. As well, to anyone who hasn't seen the show, The Count could look quite unfriendly: you'd still need context + caption to explain he only counted things. I can't see a good reason to replace the picture right now.
Man Without A Body: You're telling me that Sesame Street isn't as well known as Karin. What is wrong with you? Take a moment to bask in the idiocy of what you are suggesting. And I never said the Count was the only example. I just said that he's obviously the most famous and beloved (I'm not counting Twilight, because it has an enormous hatedom and is, frankly, a crime against humanity), and he is instantly recognizable as both a vampire and harmless. As I can see I'm in the minority here, I'm going to stop pushing this issue, but I just want you to know that you, personally, are a cultural wasteland.
Mr Death: Gotta say, totally agree with Man Without A Body here. How are those two kids in the current picture at all recognizable as vampires? I see no fangs, no bats, no anything that says vampire. Does TV Tropes have some sort of quota on anime references for pictures or something? I'm all for putting The Count or, you know, anything you can actually tell is a vampire as the page picture instead of what's there now.
Figment Jedi: What the hell is this moeblob crap that totally doesn't look like vampires at all? At least Count's an example ANYONE can recognize.
Gideon: There's going to be far, far fewer people that have seen whatever anime that picture is from. The Count, on the other hand, is extremely widely recognized as a vampire. "Y'know, that one vampire dude from Sesame Street?". Fangs, widows peak, off color skin. Bleah bleah. Children icon for years now? Switch it to the Count. He's the epitome of this trope.
antidevil: I changed the image, as it was not immediately recognizable as a "friendly neighborhood vampire." The picture that's replaced the anime screen cap oozes "Friendly Neighborhood Vampire" out of every pixel. It didn't even need a caption, I just put one there for humor's sake. Please stop insisting on bringing anime into every example and then accusing others of a bias against "new media." There's nothing new about this Disney-derived, stylized form of animation. It isn't new in the West, or even remotely obscure as an animation medium. It's a cultural difference if anything. Sesame Street is a classic worldwide, translated into more languages than the Bible. I may have made that last part up. To sum up, this is not a matter of xenophobia or of persecution, it is a matter of proper and popular examples of a trope, and the most popular image is The Count.
Tangent 128: My sister had me de-sqee-ify this example before adding it, but I'll preserve it here for humor.
- One of today's most popular Friendly Neighborhood Vampires is Edward Cullen!!!!!!! from Stephanie Meyer's "Twilight." Adding to the growing population of uber-hott vamp bfs, Edward Cullen battles for the heart of Bella Swan against the other friendly minority Jacob Black, who just happens to be a werewolf.
Man Without A Body: What humour? That's just exclamation point abuse.
Frank75: It's not a redirect, it really is the name of the trope.
