This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Chrome Newfie: I have added a small selection of examples to the page. These were chosen to illustrate just how much some of these Expanded Universe efforts are "pushing the envelope" between canon and fanfiction. Standard disclaimers apply.
Idle Dandy: I'm not sure of the wording here. I want to distinguish what I mean here (show comes first or movie comes first) from those instances, such as the Marvel Universe, where the comic book is not a tie-in, but itself the original form.
Red Shoe: I don't think this really fits under The 'Verse, since it's a thing-about-a-Verse and not actually a Verse. Putting it over with Canon and Fanon would probably help. Also, I think the term you're looking for here is "original medium" -- though maybe "primary medium" would be better, since there are really wacky examples like War Of The Worlds where the movie is canon, but the book isn't.
Idle Dandy: I like "primary medium," too, seeing as for Buffy the "original medium" is the semi-crappy movie. I'll tinker with the text.
Red Shoe: I'm not sure if it goes in the entry, elsewhere, or is adequately explained by having it in this discussion page, but the "Expanded Universe" is usually a lot messier than in the Star Wars example. As I understand it, Star Wars has a very well defined "expanded universe canon", and what's in it is well-defined, and the film canon is a proper subset, and everything in the Expanded Universe shares a common Expanded Universe canon. This is really cool and all, but the idea of a well-defined Expanded Universe is mostly wishful thinking in other Verses. In Trek, you've got the independent series canons, the expanded canon of the official supplementary stuff (tech manuals and whatnot), then the novels, which consider whichever of the other novels canon they want to.
Idle Dandy: Good point. I added a note about that.
Ununnilium: Might I just say that this is a very well-done entry? ^_^
Idle Dandy: Cool! I was a bit obsessive about the wording.
Gus: yes. Many props to IdleDandy. It reads good.
Seven Seals: "For example, the Star Trek The Next Generation novel Vendetta showed that going to Warp 10 caused one to get stuck in a time-loop forever; however, an episode of Star Trek Voyager was later shown in which Warp 10 allowed one to stay in the normal timeline but caused one to evolve rapidy."
If anyone has a better example of something in an EU being decanonized by the Verse, please put that in... This is referring to the episode Threshold, which is so godawful that there are legitimate doubts as to whether it should be considered canon at all (it's effectively one of those "let's never talk about this again" episodes that are canon only in name). It's technically a good example, but I'd love to see something else. I'm not too experienced with various E Us, though.
Ununnilium: Dis Continuity, you mean? Yeah, I know what you mean. How about another Star Trek novel example? *edit*
Seven Seals: Thanks for the edit and the trope name. Yes, even among fans kind enough not to DisContinue Voyager as a whole, Threshold is universally regarded as an absolute low
. You have to put it out of your mind if you don't want to go insane. I would say "even the writers never referred to any of it again", but continuity has never been one of Star Trek's strong points. Anything a "non-canon" novel could come up with would be better than what the "canon" episode showed. The example we now have is much better, since the canonicity is not disputed.
Ununnilium: Frankly, any time something travels at Warp 10 shows that the writers don't understand it. Of course, the logarithmic warp system is a dumb idea in and of itself, IMHO.
Ununnilium: Wow, I was just about to add the Heinlein book, thinking nobody would ever have thought of such a thing. (Though note it's one book with a bunch of short stories in it, not several books.)
